It seems like there is a large sentiment here about the Pats not trading pick 3. I still believe the reports that the pick is for sale if Daniels isn't there, and I don't think JD will be there.
Tony Pauline and others reported this:
| "I was told at the combine that the New England Patriots would trade back if Jayden Daniels did not drop to their slot," Pauline wrote. "Just today, I heard further that several scouts from the Patriots organization are not fans of Maye, who really struggled down the stretch of the season." |
The Patriots also have serious interest in Bo Nix.
Now that beings us to the Vikings making moves to satisfy the Patriots requests:
In February, Minneapolis TV reporter Darren Wolfson reported on a podcast that the Vikings “planted the seed” with the Patriots at January’s Senior Bowl for a trade of No. 3. And guess who coached Maye in high school? Vikings QB coach Josh McCown, who coached at Charlotte’s Myers Park High in 2019 when Maye was a junior starter.
On top of that, a league source I trust — someone who told me the Vikings wanted Sam Darnold, and the Falcons were hot on Cousins, and the Browns wanted Jameis Winston — told me this past week, prior to the Vikings’ trade, that he thinks the Patriots may trade No. 3. The rationale is that Jacoby Brissett might be able to get the Patriots through the season, and the Patriots have so many holes to fill — quarterback, receiver, left tackle, and tight end on offense alone — that they need the haul of draft picks that No. 3 could bring in a trade. I’m not reporting that it’s going to happen, but I’ve got my eyebrow raised.
The Patriots would obviously get picks 11 and 23 from the Vikings, and shouldn’t listen to any offer that doesn’t also include the Vikings’ 2025 first-rounder. In 2021, the 49ers traded three first-round picks plus a third-rounder to move up from No. 12 to 3 to draft Trey Lance.
Given the number of teams in the hunt for quarterbacks — the Broncos at No. 12 and Raiders at No. 13 each desperately need one — the Patriots would be crazy if they didn’t consider trading No. 3 for at least three-first round picks. They could still draft a quarterback later in the draft — anywhere from No. 23 to the middle rounds — and set themselves up with extra premium draft picks over multiple years.
The risk is that Maye becomes a superstar elsewhere. But the Patriots’ roster is in such bad shape that getting a haul for No. 3 may be worth the risk. |
Then just yesterday the Jerod Mayo said he would need the Vikings to trade pick 11, 23, 3rd rounder and 1st, 2nd and 3rd from 2025. He said this on the radio and it was reported in the Boston Globe. The Vikings don't have a 2025 2nd, and this is merely Mayo saying it would take a lot, not to be taken literallh. The trade would likely be pixk 11, 23, 3rd rd and 2025 1st. If reports are true that they are really enamored with Maye, they will do it. Imo this takes us out of the running for pick 3, no chance we trade pick 6, 47, our 3rd and a future 1st.
Todd McShay thinks the Vikings wouldn't make the overpay for pick 23 if they didn't have a team tell them to do it:
| The Vikings don’t make this move unless they’ve already had serious discussions with a specific team re: what it will take to move up for the QB they desire (presumably not named Caleb or Jayden). So is it NE at 3 (for Maye)? Or a team picking a couple/few spots down (for JJ)? |
Pete Prisco reports word around the league is the Vikings are enamored with Drake Maye:
| Vikings making moves to go up and get a QB. Drake Maye or J.J. McCarthy? Word around the league is they like Maye. |
Don't forget the timing of the Vikings getting this extra 1st came about 30 hours after our resident asshat said we had given NE our best offer and told them take it or leave it. A coincidence? Maybe, but I don't think so.
The Pats could get Nix whom they like at 11 (Payton has very little draft picks and is in cap hell, they need every draft pick they can get and trading up above 11 would be very tough in many ways), then get a good OL or wr at 23. It also gives their resident GM a chance to sell Kraft on a longer plan than just going boom or bust with Maye at 3, he could buy himself more time to become established as GM with this move.
The Cardinals are reportedly very set on pairing their last 1st round pick Paris Johnson with his college teammate Marvin Harrisson Jr:
| "So right now, I’d pencil him in as the fourth pick to the Arizona Cardinals. One former colleague of Monti Ossenfort told me that Harrison is a wheelhouse sort of prospect for the Cardinals GM, the way Harrison’s ex-teammate Paris Johnson Jr. was last year. Both are very clean character-wise, and a height-weight-speed dynamo. Maybe Harrison goes before the Cardinals pick. I have a hard time seeing him get past them." |
There are lot more reports about this, but I thought this former colleague of AZ's GM was the most succinct and profound.
I don't see the Vikings making this move preemptively to move up to 5 as that doesn't ensure they get who they want. Also, no way Harbaugh would be dealing like this without knowing who is there at 5 imo.
I don't know about you all, but I'm starting to feel more and more like the Vikings are trading pixk 11, 23, 2025 1st and a 3rd to go get their guy in Maye. I know most of this has been covered in previous threads, but I wanted to put it all together with some more quotes from insider reports.
T-39 days and counting, April 25th can't get here soon enough.
If the Giants want him, I cannot see them waiting until 6. They'll trade up one spot like they did with Shockey.
Sure, Denver or Raiders could try and move up still but it would most likely ensure either Maye or McCarthy is on board at 6 and Giants didn’t need to trade up to get him
The disaster scenario is NE taking a QB at 3 and Vikes jumping us to 4/5 and the. 4 QBs are gone.
I made a joke about this when Harbaugh made that statement. I'd be happy to take Herbert off their hands. I don't know what to make of McCarthy. The tools are all there but putting it together is what you have to predict. If this staff wants to take that chance, they'll have the opportunity but this one move will determine their faith. They obviously know that so if they are fine with it, then I'll be fine with it. I have made it known countless times I am not in favor of giving up our 2025 first to move up. Inhave serious questions with these QBs. Yes, if it works out then great but I think the better play is a slght trade up with LAC for McCarthy if they really like him. They give up some captial/picks to do so but it doesn't hinder us moving forward and trying to continue building up the team around the QB meaning he'll have a better job at succeeding.
Sure, Denver or Raiders could try and move up still but it would most likely ensure either Maye or McCarthy is on board at 6 and Giants didn’t need to trade up to get him
The disaster scenario is NE taking a QB at 3 and Vikes jumping us to 4/5 and the. 4 QBs are gone.
I agree, and I after thoroughly researching this I just don't see AZ passing on MHJ (they would likely demand the same package NE wants). And I really don't see Kwesi getting an extra 1st while negotiating with Harbaugh for a pick that might not even get them the guy they want. All signs point to NE and Vikings. I would love this if I'm putting myself in the shoes of a Pats fan. They could get a QB with a very high floor in Nix while also netting a good tackle or wide receiver, not to mention the 2025 1st and a 3rd. That 1st will likely be top 15, potentially top 10 or 5 too based on the Vikings defense and Maye not being even close to NFL ready like Stroud was). For a team like the Patriots in need of qb, receiver, tackle and more this trade could be gold and a throwback to their old coach Belichek who crushed it trading down for years until he lost his touch and began reaching for guys with his picks. Nix, Brian Thomas Jr. And Fautanu or Jordan Morgan plus a 2025 1st predicted to be high and an extra 3rd would go a lot further for them than Drake Maye imo, no comparison. If they are being realistic, DM on their offense with a poor o line and no receivers would be a death sentence for a 21 year old QB whom isn't NFL ready.
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I remember Harbaugh being SUPER high on JJ. Wouldn't it be wild if LAC drafted him & traded Herbert? & no, I'm not in the bag. I've just had one IPA this afternoon thus far, Haha.
I made a joke about this when Harbaugh made that statement. I'd be happy to take Herbert off their hands. I don't know what to make of McCarthy. The tools are all there but putting it together is what you have to predict. If this staff wants to take that chance, they'll have the opportunity but this one move will determine their faith. They obviously know that so if they are fine with it, then I'll be fine with it. I have made it known countless times I am not in favor of giving up our 2025 first to move up. Inhave serious questions with these QBs. Yes, if it works out then great but I think the better play is a slght trade up with LAC for McCarthy if they really like him. They give up some captial/picks to do so but it doesn't hinder us moving forward and trying to continue building up the team around the QB meaning he'll have a better job at succeeding.
I completely agree and that's another thing about JJM, I don't think the Vikings would make drastic moves like this to get anyone other than their preference in Drake Maye. Maye has shown the ability to carry and offense and be a true playmaker, I think they are in full bloom love with the idea of pairing him with Justin Jefferson, Addison and Hockenson along with a solid o line. JJM hasn't shown any tape of being a guy that could put up huge points like Maye has. If they did this for JJM and he was more of a game manager solid qb, but not a point scoring playmaker qb then it's a loss for the Vikings and it simply doesn't fit what they have building there in a high powered offense with elite receiving threats paired with a sufficient, but not great defense.
That was Mayo's hyperbole on the radio. I think it would likely be pixk 11, 23, 3rd rounder and 2025 1st. Within 1-2 years the Patriots could completely turn things around if the Pats liked Nix and he was good to solid not even great, then they got a good wide receiver and OL. If i were them I would think that trade down is analytically a much better bet than Maye at 3. It makes too much sense imo. Hell, if Nix really struggled they would have the ammo in 2025 to go get Sanders or Dart or Ward still. Or if Nix was good they would have 2 1sts to get another 2 solid players. If they nailed their picks after this trade they could be competing with the Bills after 2025 imo.
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is probably going to make it to 4 and then to 5. If he makes it to 6 I think he’s a Giant.
If the Giants want him, I cannot see them waiting until 6. They'll trade up one spot like they did with Shockey.
Chargers would probably take the deal. Easy third rounder for sake of lucky circumstance and you don’t have to drop into the teens.
Again, you don't draft a position, you draft people. Frok the rumors coming out for months now, the organization os split on two things. One, take the QB they want now. Two, trade down, get a ton of picks/capital for future years and go into the draft stocked and ready to roll. So, with 5hose initial rumors, this whole thing makes sense. If their guy is there then great. If not, you just don't draft the next best QB if you aren't in love with him. If Daniels is their guy, they can't trade up if Washington loves him nor if Chicago wants Williams. So, NE is doing the next best thing and that is getting as much ammo as they can to control what they do in future drafts.
Because they reportedly aren't high on Maye. He has a lot of flaws and those flaws could be disastrously amplified on a team like the Patriots with no receivers and a shaky o line. Maye is a very risky pick for Wolf. He would likely struggle immensely with their situation as a young qb whom isn't NFL ready like Nix is. Like I said, if I'm Wolf I've already sold Kraft on the idea of a 2-3 year plan after this big trade down vs the boom or bust pick of Maye into one of the worst offensive situations in the league. He already showed he struggled at UNC with pressure, imagine him on the Pstriots with no good receivers and subpar offensive tackles? It's a recipe for disaster.
Did you read the info in the OP?
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In comment 16436695 Sammo85 said:
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is probably going to make it to 4 and then to 5. If he makes it to 6 I think he’s a Giant.
If the Giants want him, I cannot see them waiting until 6. They'll trade up one spot like they did with Shockey.
Chargers would probably take the deal. Easy third rounder for sake of lucky circumstance and you don’t have to drop into the teens.
Yep, it makes sense for both sides.
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In comment 16436695 Sammo85 said:
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is probably going to make it to 4 and then to 5. If he makes it to 6 I think he’s a Giant.
If the Giants want him, I cannot see them waiting until 6. They'll trade up one spot like they did with Shockey.
Chargers would probably take the deal. Easy third rounder for sake of lucky circumstance and you don’t have to drop into the teens.
Also, you think Harbaugh wants to not only miss out on his blue chip targets, but trade JJ McCarthy to a division rival in the process? Not a chance in hell, I think he'd take a future 3rd and his top choice which would be one of the highest rated players in the draft after 4 qbs and MHJ went top 5.
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Again, you don't draft a position, you draft people. Frok the rumors coming out for months now, the organization os split on two things. One, take the QB they want now. Two, trade down, get a ton of picks/capital for future years and go into the draft stocked and ready to roll. So, with 5hose initial rumors, this whole thing makes sense. If their guy is there then great. If not, you just don't draft the next best QB if you aren't in love with him. If Daniels is their guy, they can't trade up if Washington loves him nor if Chicago wants Williams. So, NE is doing the next best thing and that is getting as much ammo as they can to control what they do in future drafts.
Yes, this move could set them up for years if they played their hands right. Having a team like the Vikings enamored with Maye is a perfect scenario (well 2nd most perfect after them getting JD which won't happen).
And why don’t the Patriots just stay at #3 and take JJ McCarthy if they don’t like Maye? I mean he is the greatest thing since sliced bread on BBI with so many active posters. The Pats can’t see that?
1) Chicago-Williams.
2) WFT-Daniels.
3) Pats trade pick to Vikes who take either Drake or JJ.
4) 'Zona-Harrison Jr.
5) LAC...this is where it gets interesting. The teams-outside of us & Minnesota-that have been linked the most to trading up are LVR & Denver. & last time I checked, both of them are in the Chargers division. It makes little sense for them to allow one of them to move up & draft a potential franchise QB.
6) Us.
And why don’t the Patriots just stay at #3 and take JJ McCarthy if they don’t like Maye? I mean he is the greatest thing since sliced bread on BBI with so many active posters. The Pats can’t see that?
I think only CW and JD could make chicken salad out of chicken shit with the Patriots situation on offense. I think the Patriots think the same. JJM is a high ceiling, high floor guy imo but not a savior. He would struggle just the same as Maye in NE. Nix is a perfect fit for their situation, and only if they can get him a receiver and tackle in the process (which would work quite well in this deep OT and WR draft).
Like pulling an inside straight!!
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need to button it up. Or maybe it is on purpose.
And why don’t the Patriots just stay at #3 and take JJ McCarthy if they don’t like Maye? I mean he is the greatest thing since sliced bread on BBI with so many active posters. The Pats can’t see that?
I think only CW and JD could make chicken salad out of chicken shit with the Patriots situation on offense. I think the Patriots think the same. JJM is a high ceiling, high floor guy imo but not a savior. He would struggle just the same as Maye in NE. Nix is a perfect fit for their situation, and only if they can get him a receiver and tackle in the process (which would work quite well in this deep OT and WR draft).
How convenient.
Well the Giants should follow suit then. Because if this is just a 2 QB draft there is simply no reason to draft a guy that would struggle with the Giants just like he would struggle with the Patriots.
Draft Odunze or Nabers and hope more QBs appear in 2025.
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In comment 16436751 ThomasG said:
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need to button it up. Or maybe it is on purpose.
And why don’t the Patriots just stay at #3 and take JJ McCarthy if they don’t like Maye? I mean he is the greatest thing since sliced bread on BBI with so many active posters. The Pats can’t see that?
I think only CW and JD could make chicken salad out of chicken shit with the Patriots situation on offense. I think the Patriots think the same. JJM is a high ceiling, high floor guy imo but not a savior. He would struggle just the same as Maye in NE. Nix is a perfect fit for their situation, and only if they can get him a receiver and tackle in the process (which would work quite well in this deep OT and WR draft).
How convenient.
Well the Giants should follow suit then. Because if this is just a 2 QB draft there is simply no reason to draft a guy that would struggle with the Giants just like he would struggle with the Patriots.
Draft Odunze or Nabers and hope more QBs appear in 2025.
We have an immensely better situation on offense imo. We have 3 receivers thst would be wr1 for them for one. We also have an offensive minded coach who beat playoff teams with an undrafted rookie free agent. It is not a 2qb draft just because I only see 2 guys that could make chicken salad out of chicken shit in the NFL's worst offensive situation. The guys that need more time to grow into themselves and the NFL are not players you want as a savior pick for the worst offense in the NFL.
My previous post still stands.
If Minnesota trades with NE, then I don't see any reason for the Giants to trade with SD. Nobody behind us would likely offer enough to move up to #5, and if they do, then it's a haul we can't beat by just offering #70.
If Minnesota doesn't trade with NE, then I assume they will trade with SD. In that case, the haul they can offer SD will also beat #70.
At this point, the Giants should just let the draft come to them. Stay put and take JJM. If he's not available, take Nabers or Odunze or maybe trade down.
People have gone crazy over Williams, Maye, Daniels, and JJM, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of Nix, Penix, Rattler, or Pratt has a better career than any of them.
If Minnesota trades with NE, then I don't see any reason for the Giants to trade with SD. Nobody behind us would likely offer enough to move up to #5, and if they do, then it's a haul we can't beat by just offering #70.
If Minnesota doesn't trade with NE, then I assume they will trade with SD. In that case, the haul they can offer SD will also beat #70.
At this point, the Giants should just let the draft come to them. Stay put and take JJM. If he's not available, take Nabers or Odunze or maybe trade down.
People have gone crazy over Williams, Maye, Daniels, and JJM, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of Nix, Penix, Rattler, or Pratt has a better career than any of them.
I completely disagree. I know you are trying to use logic to not trade up one spot but if this is your franchise QB then you don't play games. There are numerous teams that need a QB. LAC had to shed like $50 in salary. They still have Bosa and Mack but that is gonna end soon. LAC should absolutely be looking at adding more picks whether that is just something like a 3rd for 1 spot or a shit load of picks over the next two drafts to replace their WRs, pass rushers, and build up the team.
My previous post still stands.
We are a disaster on offense if we have injury trouble to the offensive line again. With our oline healthy plus the new blocking improvements our and Daboll our situation is vastly better than the Patriots imo. I agree that we aren't a QB away at all, which is why I wouldn't trade up to top 3 for JJM or Maye. JJM at 6 would be great to me though, wr is probably the deepest position in the draft and we can get a good one in rd2 or via slight trade up (Troy Franklin or Xavier Leggette or Adonai Mitchell are my top 3 for rd 2).
If Minnesota trades with NE, then I don't see any reason for the Giants to trade with SD. Nobody behind us would likely offer enough to move up to #5, and if they do, then it's a haul we can't beat by just offering #70.
If Minnesota doesn't trade with NE, then I assume they will trade with SD. In that case, the haul they can offer SD will also beat #70.
At this point, the Giants should just let the draft come to them. Stay put and take JJM. If he's not available, take Nabers or Odunze or maybe trade down.
People have gone crazy over Williams, Maye, Daniels, and JJM, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of Nix, Penix, Rattler, or Pratt has a better career than any of them.
This would depend on what Harbaugh told us, if he said we have a deal in place with the Seahawks if you want you can take him for a future 3rd, then I would do it. If he said we are taking our guy here and don't want to trade down too far then that's even better. NFL front offices communicate with each other about their preferences, it's not like some Morse code war games. I think the Seahawks would be our only competition there, Harbaugh isn't giving JJM to the Broncos or Raiders imo.
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stuff. Thanks.
If Minnesota trades with NE, then I don't see any reason for the Giants to trade with SD. Nobody behind us would likely offer enough to move up to #5, and if they do, then it's a haul we can't beat by just offering #70.
If Minnesota doesn't trade with NE, then I assume they will trade with SD. In that case, the haul they can offer SD will also beat #70.
At this point, the Giants should just let the draft come to them. Stay put and take JJM. If he's not available, take Nabers or Odunze or maybe trade down.
People have gone crazy over Williams, Maye, Daniels, and JJM, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of Nix, Penix, Rattler, or Pratt has a better career than any of them.
I completely disagree. I know you are trying to use logic to not trade up one spot but if this is your franchise QB then you don't play games. There are numerous teams that need a QB. LAC had to shed like $50 in salary. They still have Bosa and Mack but that is gonna end soon. LAC should absolutely be looking at adding more picks whether that is just something like a 3rd for 1 spot or a shit load of picks over the next two drafts to replace their WRs, pass rushers, and build up the team.
Agreed, but I think it would be a future 3rd like how the Eagles traded a future 4th to move up 1 spot with the Bears for Jalen Carter last year.
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If you want to rank the disasters amongst each other then so be it.
My previous post still stands.
We are a disaster on offense if we have injury trouble to the offensive line again. With our oline healthy plus the new blocking improvements our and Daboll our situation is vastly better than the Patriots imo. I agree that we aren't a QB away at all, which is why I wouldn't trade up to top 3 for JJM or Maye. JJM at 6 would be great to me though, wr is probably the deepest position in the draft and we can get a good one in rd2 or via slight trade up (Troy Franklin or Xavier Leggette or Adonai Mitchell are my top 3 for rd 2).
We are a disaster on Offense. The Giants can’t score much and we simply don’t beat enough guys across from us very much, sans Andrew Thomas. We lose the matchup game.
But keep pushing JJ. I know that’s what you do.
“The Patriots have a runway in place for a young quarterback, and while Jacoby Brissett could definitely start Week 1 after signing a one-year deal with the Pats, I still think they have to go QB in the draft,” Yates wrote. “Besides, Brissett’s presence would allow the 21-year-old Maye to develop as needed. He has all the tools to be a star, even if he needs a bit of seasoning. There is no consolation prize among the three top quarterbacks in this class. They are all really good. And Maye has immense upside with his terrific arm.”
Maye has been lauded as a prospect for quite some time, with some draft evaluators placing him right behind USC’s Caleb Williams as the top two quarterbacks in this year’s draft since before the 2023 season started.
Daniel Jeremiah also has the Patriots staying put at #3.
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In comment 16436776 ThomasG said:
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If you want to rank the disasters amongst each other then so be it.
My previous post still stands.
We are a disaster on offense if we have injury trouble to the offensive line again. With our oline healthy plus the new blocking improvements our and Daboll our situation is vastly better than the Patriots imo. I agree that we aren't a QB away at all, which is why I wouldn't trade up to top 3 for JJM or Maye. JJM at 6 would be great to me though, wr is probably the deepest position in the draft and we can get a good one in rd2 or via slight trade up (Troy Franklin or Xavier Leggette or Adonai Mitchell are my top 3 for rd 2).
We are a disaster on Offense. The Giants can’t score much and we simply don’t beat enough guys across from us very much, sans Andrew Thomas. We lose the matchup game.
But keep pushing JJ. I know that’s what you do.
If they got a massive haul for JJM and Schoen chose to trade down then I would be happy with that and support it, hopefully we could nab Pennix later. Or if we took Odunze over JJM, id support that too and hope we could trade up for Pennix later. I'm not pushing JJM here, nowhere have I said he is a savior or better than JD/CW. I do have him as QB3 above Maye, but that's neither here nor there. You're the one trying to spin my posts about what the Vikings are doing and what the Pats will do into me pushing JJM.
You're a bit repetitive and condescending in your responses to posts that are multifaceted by spinning them into pro JJM posts which we all know you don't like him. I'd say that has more to do with your bias against him than anyone pushing him.
Agreed. I still think in order to get him they need to climb up to 5.
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
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In comment 16436853 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16436776 ThomasG said:
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If you want to rank the disasters amongst each other then so be it.
My previous post still stands.
We are a disaster on offense if we have injury trouble to the offensive line again. With our oline healthy plus the new blocking improvements our and Daboll our situation is vastly better than the Patriots imo. I agree that we aren't a QB away at all, which is why I wouldn't trade up to top 3 for JJM or Maye. JJM at 6 would be great to me though, wr is probably the deepest position in the draft and we can get a good one in rd2 or via slight trade up (Troy Franklin or Xavier Leggette or Adonai Mitchell are my top 3 for rd 2).
We are a disaster on Offense. The Giants can’t score much and we simply don’t beat enough guys across from us very much, sans Andrew Thomas. We lose the matchup game.
But keep pushing JJ. I know that’s what you do.
If they got a massive haul for JJM and Schoen chose to trade down then I would be happy with that and support it, hopefully we could nab Pennix later. Or if we took Odunze over JJM, id support that too and hope we could trade up for Pennix later. I'm not pushing JJM here, nowhere have I said he is a savior or better than JD/CW. I do have him as QB3 above Maye, but that's neither here nor there. You're the one trying to spin my posts about what the Vikings are doing and what the Pats will do into me pushing JJM.
You're a bit repetitive and condescending in your responses to posts that are multifaceted by spinning them into pro JJM posts which we all know you don't like him. I'd say that has more to do with your bias against him than anyone pushing him.
The spin is yours. I am the no-spin zone type.
1) Chicago-Williams.
2) WFT-Daniels.
3) Pats trade pick to Vikes who take either Drake or JJ.
4) 'Zona-Harrison Jr.
5) LAC...this is where it gets interesting. The teams-outside of us & Minnesota-that have been linked the most to trading up are LVR & Denver. & last time I checked, both of them are in the Chargers division. It makes little sense for them to allow one of them to move up & draft a potential franchise QB.
6) Us.
Good point. Especially 5.
If Minnesota trades with NE, then I don't see any reason for the Giants to trade with SD. Nobody behind us would likely offer enough to move up to #5, and if they do, then it's a haul we can't beat by just offering #70.
If Minnesota doesn't trade with NE, then I assume they will trade with SD. In that case, the haul they can offer SD will also beat #70.
At this point, the Giants should just let the draft come to them. Stay put and take JJM. If he's not available, take Nabers or Odunze or maybe trade down.
People have gone crazy over Williams, Maye, Daniels, and JJM, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of Nix, Penix, Rattler, or Pratt has a better career than any of them.
Good post. I still think that the NYG are the most appropriate trade partner for the Pats at 6 then going down to 11 with the Vikes and losing their QB (assuming that guy's Nix).
“The Patriots have a runway in place for a young quarterback, and while Jacoby Brissett could definitely start Week 1 after signing a one-year deal with the Pats, I still think they have to go QB in the draft,” Yates wrote. “Besides, Brissett’s presence would allow the 21-year-old Maye to develop as needed. He has all the tools to be a star, even if he needs a bit of seasoning. There is no consolation prize among the three top quarterbacks in this class. They are all really good. And Maye has immense upside with his terrific arm.”
Maye has been lauded as a prospect for quite some time, with some draft evaluators placing him right behind USC’s Caleb Williams as the top two quarterbacks in this year’s draft since before the 2023 season started.
Daniel Jeremiah also has the Patriots staying put at #3.
They should stay put and take Maye if he's there for them. It's logical.
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
I thought I addressed that, but I'll go over it again. They aren't enamored with Maye and think he would struggle given his lack of refinement and their bottom of the barrel offense construction. They also like Nix and I think they would feel a lot better about their chances with Nix plus a promising tackle/wr and a 2025 1st plus an extra 3rd vs. the young unrefined Maye trotted out their with an offense lacking tackles and wrs. They really need a left tackle and a wr bar minimum to pair with a young qb, and they could get promising players at all 3 positions plus 2025 1st and a 3rd instead of Maye plus a 2nd round wr/tackle. They are probably the NFL's worst suited team to plug a young rookie qb into.
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is probably going to make it to 4 and then to 5. If he makes it to 6 I think he’s a Giant.
If the Giants want him, I cannot see them waiting until 6. They'll trade up one spot like they did with Shockey.
+1 Absolutely! If Daboll wants McCarthy then go get him! Don't sit and let someone take him at 5.
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In comment 16436730 Giantsbigblue said:
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
I thought I addressed that, but I'll go over it again. They aren't enamored with Maye and think he would struggle given his lack of refinement and their bottom of the barrel offense construction. They also like Nix and I think they would feel a lot better about their chances with Nix plus a promising tackle/wr and a 2025 1st plus an extra 3rd vs. the young unrefined Maye trotted out their with an offense lacking tackles and wrs. They really need a left tackle and a wr bar minimum to pair with a young qb, and they could get promising players at all 3 positions plus 2025 1st and a 3rd instead of Maye plus a 2nd round wr/tackle. They are probably the NFL's worst suited team to plug a young rookie qb into.
They aren't going to start him right away, that's why they signed Jacoby Brissett. They also signed OL Mike Onwenu one of the best free agent Ops btw.
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In comment 16436928 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 16436730 Giantsbigblue said:
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
I thought I addressed that, but I'll go over it again. They aren't enamored with Maye and think he would struggle given his lack of refinement and their bottom of the barrel offense construction. They also like Nix and I think they would feel a lot better about their chances with Nix plus a promising tackle/wr and a 2025 1st plus an extra 3rd vs. the young unrefined Maye trotted out their with an offense lacking tackles and wrs. They really need a left tackle and a wr bar minimum to pair with a young qb, and they could get promising players at all 3 positions plus 2025 1st and a 3rd instead of Maye plus a 2nd round wr/tackle. They are probably the NFL's worst suited team to plug a young rookie qb into.
They aren't going to start him right away, that's why they signed Jacoby Brissett. They also signed OL Mike Onwenu one of the best free agent Ops btw.
Onwenu is a guard, they need 2 tackles and 2 wrs for that matter. Maye would struggle until 2025 at the earliest there. They need 2 good offseasons as it stands to get Maye setup. A trade down would enable them to potentially get back to competitive this year or next year imo. I think it would be a wise move on their part and I have a hunch Wolf has sold Kraft on the idea too.
I don't think it's out of the question.
Herbert to Minnesota makes a lot of sense if JJ is available at 5 and Harbaugh is that attached to JJ. They could probably get both of Minny's 1sts this year and their 1st next year for Herbert. That's a lot of ammo for Harbaugh to draft who he wants. LAC has completely dismantled that offense, so it doesn't seem that far fetched.
Then there are times you have the same third pair and you just call it down.
And finally, there are times when you just fold the hand.
Trading up to go all-in on a less than elite prospect, when there's a good chance he'll fall to 6, that is an all-in proposition. You better hope your pair is the best hand.
Folding would mean that you have to pivot, and save your chips (this year's and future picks) for a better hand later.
And then there's what I would do...which is call this down to pick 6. If there's a trade up in front of you, so be it. Take BPA and keep trying to improve the roster, pivot to taking another QB later, with an eye on 2025's QB crop.
But, just like in poker, I have a hunch. And my hunch is, sit tight, let the chips come to you...whether that be JJ McCarthy or Drake Maye, at pick 6. And I think if you're hoping for McCarthy, you don't have to do anything but wait for Mr. Goodell to say, "The NY Giants are now on the clock," right at pick #6.
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In comment 16436730 Giantsbigblue said:
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
I thought I addressed that, but I'll go over it again. They aren't enamored with Maye and think he would struggle given his lack of refinement and their bottom of the barrel offense construction. They also like Nix and I think they would feel a lot better about their chances with Nix plus a promising tackle/wr and a 2025 1st plus an extra 3rd vs. the young unrefined Maye trotted out their with an offense lacking tackles and wrs. They really need a left tackle and a wr bar minimum to pair with a young qb, and they could get promising players at all 3 positions plus 2025 1st and a 3rd instead of Maye plus a 2nd round wr/tackle. They are probably the NFL's worst suited team to plug a young rookie qb into.
You don't get it. When you get a chance to get a young QB, you GET HIM! PERIOD! Dipping down to 11 instead of 6 is a bad move. The Pats will get their future QB at 6 since ARZ is going MHJr 4th. The Chargers can do whatever they wanna do at 5. That leaves one of JJM or Nix at 6---assuming Maye id traded up for by the Giants at 3 in this scenario fir the Pats instead of down to 11 with Minny. Pats woul be foolish to gamble by trading down to 11 and waiting for their QB to come to them when they can just do it at 6 and get their guy there while also obtaining a boatload of picks from the NYG in the process (say their 2nd this year, 1st and 3rd picks next year).
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I remember Harbaugh being SUPER high on JJ. Wouldn't it be wild if LAC drafted him & traded Herbert? & no, I'm not in the bag. I've just had one IPA this afternoon thus far, Haha.
I don't think it's out of the question.
Herbert to Minnesota makes a lot of sense if JJ is available at 5 and Harbaugh is that attached to JJ. They could probably get both of Minny's 1sts this year and their 1st next year for Herbert. That's a lot of ammo for Harbaugh to draft who he wants. LAC has completely dismantled that offense, so it doesn't seem that far fetched.
When you put it like that, it wouldn't be absolutely far fetched. I think they'd need Addison in addition to 3 1sts for Herbert. Harbaugh could really build like that with a rookie qb contract and pick 5, 11, 23 plus 2 in 2025 and Addison.
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In comment 16436928 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 16436730 Giantsbigblue said:
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
I thought I addressed that, but I'll go over it again. They aren't enamored with Maye and think he would struggle given his lack of refinement and their bottom of the barrel offense construction. They also like Nix and I think they would feel a lot better about their chances with Nix plus a promising tackle/wr and a 2025 1st plus an extra 3rd vs. the young unrefined Maye trotted out their with an offense lacking tackles and wrs. They really need a left tackle and a wr bar minimum to pair with a young qb, and they could get promising players at all 3 positions plus 2025 1st and a 3rd instead of Maye plus a 2nd round wr/tackle. They are probably the NFL's worst suited team to plug a young rookie qb into.
You don't get it. When you get a chance to get a young QB, you GET HIM! PERIOD! Dipping down to 11 instead of 6 is a bad move. The Pats will get their future QB at 6 since ARZ is going MHJr 4th. The Chargers can do whatever they wanna do at 5. That leaves one of JJM or Nix at 6---assuming Maye id traded up for by the Giants at 3 in this scenario fir the Pats instead of down to 11 with Minny. Pats woul be foolish to gamble by trading down to 11 and waiting for their QB to come to them when they can just do it at 6 and get their guy there while also obtaining a boatload of picks from the NYG in the process (say their 2nd this year, 1st and 3rd picks next year).
I totally get it, but the idea here is they like Nix a lot and they aren't enamored with Maye. Imagine they have Nix in the same tier or very close to Maye and McCarthy. Of course, of they were enamored with Maye or McCarthy then the obvious move is just to take him at 3. The reasoning behind trading down with the Vikings would be because they aren't enamored with Maye as reported, or with McCarthy while they like Nix and think they could land him after trading down with the Vikings and obtaining pick 11, 23, 2025 1st and a 3rd. That's a lot of ammo to rebuild while still getting an NFL ready qb whom they like.
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In comment 16436941 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16436928 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 16436730 Giantsbigblue said:
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
I thought I addressed that, but I'll go over it again. They aren't enamored with Maye and think he would struggle given his lack of refinement and their bottom of the barrel offense construction. They also like Nix and I think they would feel a lot better about their chances with Nix plus a promising tackle/wr and a 2025 1st plus an extra 3rd vs. the young unrefined Maye trotted out their with an offense lacking tackles and wrs. They really need a left tackle and a wr bar minimum to pair with a young qb, and they could get promising players at all 3 positions plus 2025 1st and a 3rd instead of Maye plus a 2nd round wr/tackle. They are probably the NFL's worst suited team to plug a young rookie qb into.
You don't get it. When you get a chance to get a young QB, you GET HIM! PERIOD! Dipping down to 11 instead of 6 is a bad move. The Pats will get their future QB at 6 since ARZ is going MHJr 4th. The Chargers can do whatever they wanna do at 5. That leaves one of JJM or Nix at 6---assuming Maye id traded up for by the Giants at 3 in this scenario fir the Pats instead of down to 11 with Minny. Pats woul be foolish to gamble by trading down to 11 and waiting for their QB to come to them when they can just do it at 6 and get their guy there while also obtaining a boatload of picks from the NYG in the process (say their 2nd this year, 1st and 3rd picks next year).
I totally get it, but the idea here is they like Nix a lot and they aren't enamored with Maye. Imagine they have Nix in the same tier or very close to Maye and McCarthy. Of course, of they were enamored with Maye or McCarthy then the obvious move is just to take him at 3. The reasoning behind trading down with the Vikings would be because they aren't enamored with Maye as reported, or with McCarthy while they like Nix and think they could land him after trading down with the Vikings and obtaining pick 11, 23, 2025 1st and a 3rd. That's a lot of ammo to rebuild while still getting an NFL ready qb whom they like.
There is no guarantee they would get a chance at Nix if they like him so much at 11, that's the main problem with your theory.
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In comment 16436941 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16436928 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 16436730 Giantsbigblue said:
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
I thought I addressed that, but I'll go over it again. They aren't enamored with Maye and think he would struggle given his lack of refinement and their bottom of the barrel offense construction. They also like Nix and I think they would feel a lot better about their chances with Nix plus a promising tackle/wr and a 2025 1st plus an extra 3rd vs. the young unrefined Maye trotted out their with an offense lacking tackles and wrs. They really need a left tackle and a wr bar minimum to pair with a young qb, and they could get promising players at all 3 positions plus 2025 1st and a 3rd instead of Maye plus a 2nd round wr/tackle. They are probably the NFL's worst suited team to plug a young rookie qb into.
You don't get it. When you get a chance to get a young QB, you GET HIM! PERIOD! Dipping down to 11 instead of 6 is a bad move. The Pats will get their future QB at 6 since ARZ is going MHJr 4th. The Chargers can do whatever they wanna do at 5. That leaves one of JJM or Nix at 6---assuming Maye id traded up for by the Giants at 3 in this scenario fir the Pats instead of down to 11 with Minny. Pats woul be foolish to gamble by trading down to 11 and waiting for their QB to come to them when they can just do it at 6 and get their guy there while also obtaining a boatload of picks from the NYG in the process (say their 2nd this year, 1st and 3rd picks next year).
I totally get it, but the idea here is they like Nix a lot and they aren't enamored with Maye. Imagine they have Nix in the same tier or very close to Maye and McCarthy. Of course, of they were enamored with Maye or McCarthy then the obvious move is just to take him at 3. The reasoning behind trading down with the Vikings would be because they aren't enamored with Maye as reported, or with McCarthy while they like Nix and think they could land him after trading down with the Vikings and obtaining pick 11, 23, 2025 1st and a 3rd. That's a lot of ammo to rebuild while still getting an NFL ready qb whom they like.
They won't get Nix at 11, but they will at 6. That's why a trade with the Giants makes more sense for them.
Then there are times you have the same third pair and you just call it down.
And finally, there are times when you just fold the hand.
Trading up to go all-in on a less than elite prospect, when there's a good chance he'll fall to 6, that is an all-in proposition. You better hope your pair is the best hand.
Folding would mean that you have to pivot, and save your chips (this year's and future picks) for a better hand later.
And then there's what I would do...which is call this down to pick 6. If there's a trade up in front of you, so be it. Take BPA and keep trying to improve the roster, pivot to taking another QB later, with an eye on 2025's QB crop.
But, just like in poker, I have a hunch. And my hunch is, sit tight, let the chips come to you...whether that be JJ McCarthy or Drake Maye, at pick 6. And I think if you're hoping for McCarthy, you don't have to do anything but wait for Mr. Goodell to say, "The NY Giants are now on the clock," right at pick #6.
Agreed, poker is a great analogy for it and I enjoy reading the tea leaves or reading the table and chip stacks. I like the way Schoen is playing his hand, he appears to have gotten into Kwesi's head and it might play right into Schoen's hand by driving up the asking price for pick 3 and then letting it go for an enormous package to a team picking 5 selections after us. Who knows what will happen, but I enjoy analyzing the players and the front offices to predict what might happen. As it stands I predict it goes CW JD 1-2 (whether it's Commies 1st for CW or Bears, gut feeling is Commies trade something wild for CW and Bears take JD), then Vikings trade pick 11, 23, 3rd rounder and 2025 1st for Maye, then AZ MHJ, then Chargers take Odunze at 5 and we take JJM at 6, then Titans take Alt, Falcons take Turner, Bears take Nabers, Jets take Fashanu, Pats take Nix.
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In comment 16436968 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 16436941 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16436928 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 16436730 Giantsbigblue said:
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
I thought I addressed that, but I'll go over it again. They aren't enamored with Maye and think he would struggle given his lack of refinement and their bottom of the barrel offense construction. They also like Nix and I think they would feel a lot better about their chances with Nix plus a promising tackle/wr and a 2025 1st plus an extra 3rd vs. the young unrefined Maye trotted out their with an offense lacking tackles and wrs. They really need a left tackle and a wr bar minimum to pair with a young qb, and they could get promising players at all 3 positions plus 2025 1st and a 3rd instead of Maye plus a 2nd round wr/tackle. They are probably the NFL's worst suited team to plug a young rookie qb into.
You don't get it. When you get a chance to get a young QB, you GET HIM! PERIOD! Dipping down to 11 instead of 6 is a bad move. The Pats will get their future QB at 6 since ARZ is going MHJr 4th. The Chargers can do whatever they wanna do at 5. That leaves one of JJM or Nix at 6---assuming Maye id traded up for by the Giants at 3 in this scenario fir the Pats instead of down to 11 with Minny. Pats woul be foolish to gamble by trading down to 11 and waiting for their QB to come to them when they can just do it at 6 and get their guy there while also obtaining a boatload of picks from the NYG in the process (say their 2nd this year, 1st and 3rd picks next year).
I totally get it, but the idea here is they like Nix a lot and they aren't enamored with Maye. Imagine they have Nix in the same tier or very close to Maye and McCarthy. Of course, of they were enamored with Maye or McCarthy then the obvious move is just to take him at 3. The reasoning behind trading down with the Vikings would be because they aren't enamored with Maye as reported, or with McCarthy while they like Nix and think they could land him after trading down with the Vikings and obtaining pick 11, 23, 2025 1st and a 3rd. That's a lot of ammo to rebuild while still getting an NFL ready qb whom they like.
There is no guarantee they would get a chance at Nix if they like him so much at 11, that's the main problem with your theory.
Payton is reportedly not trading up and I don't see any good partners for them to trade up with. Their team has as many or more holes than any team in the NFL and the cap mess they're in makes them need every draft pick they can get to plug holes.
Also, to beat the Vikings proposed trade of pick 11, 23, a 3rd and 2025 1st we would have to trade pick 6, 47 and a future 1st and 2nd minimum. I don't think Schoen does that myself that's shooting yourself in the foot in an all out bidding war. We need rb, wr, cb, dl, s, lb, te, maybe an ol. Trading all that draft capital in a bidding war doesn't seem like a move Schoen makes imo, Maybe the reports that they are fond of JJM is just a smokescreen and they're in full bloom love with Maye to the tune of trading all that draft capital for him. My gut says that's not the case but it is 100% a possibility and the Pats would be much better off picking 6th vs 11th, but then they would miss out on a lot of top wrs and ol between pick 23 and 47, I know they have pick 35 too, but pick 23 vs 47 this year is a big difference maker hence why we would have to trade our 2025 2nd and this 2nd along with pick 6 imo.
So, if you strip that inference out of your argument (that the Vikings wouldn't make this deal unless they had an agreement in place) the rest completely falls apart.
So, if you strip that inference out of your argument (that the Vikings wouldn't make this deal unless they had an agreement in place) the rest completely falls apart.
Not that they have a deal in place, but they were told to get an extra first by a team while negotiating.
So, if you strip that inference out of your argument (that the Vikings wouldn't make this deal unless they had an agreement in place) the rest completely falls apart.
I don't think any agreement is in place, but I think they are close on a deal as another asshat here has said. I agree with Todd McShay's point on this:
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In comment 16436989 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16436968 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 16436941 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16436928 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 16436730 Giantsbigblue said:
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
I thought I addressed that, but I'll go over it again. They aren't enamored with Maye and think he would struggle given his lack of refinement and their bottom of the barrel offense construction. They also like Nix and I think they would feel a lot better about their chances with Nix plus a promising tackle/wr and a 2025 1st plus an extra 3rd vs. the young unrefined Maye trotted out their with an offense lacking tackles and wrs. They really need a left tackle and a wr bar minimum to pair with a young qb, and they could get promising players at all 3 positions plus 2025 1st and a 3rd instead of Maye plus a 2nd round wr/tackle. They are probably the NFL's worst suited team to plug a young rookie qb into.
You don't get it. When you get a chance to get a young QB, you GET HIM! PERIOD! Dipping down to 11 instead of 6 is a bad move. The Pats will get their future QB at 6 since ARZ is going MHJr 4th. The Chargers can do whatever they wanna do at 5. That leaves one of JJM or Nix at 6---assuming Maye id traded up for by the Giants at 3 in this scenario fir the Pats instead of down to 11 with Minny. Pats woul be foolish to gamble by trading down to 11 and waiting for their QB to come to them when they can just do it at 6 and get their guy there while also obtaining a boatload of picks from the NYG in the process (say their 2nd this year, 1st and 3rd picks next year).
I totally get it, but the idea here is they like Nix a lot and they aren't enamored with Maye. Imagine they have Nix in the same tier or very close to Maye and McCarthy. Of course, of they were enamored with Maye or McCarthy then the obvious move is just to take him at 3. The reasoning behind trading down with the Vikings would be because they aren't enamored with Maye as reported, or with McCarthy while they like Nix and think they could land him after trading down with the Vikings and obtaining pick 11, 23, 2025 1st and a 3rd. That's a lot of ammo to rebuild while still getting an NFL ready qb whom they like.
There is no guarantee they would get a chance at Nix if they like him so much at 11, that's the main problem with your theory.
Payton is reportedly not trading up and I don't see any good partners for them to trade up with. Their team has as many or more holes than any team in the NFL and the cap mess they're in makes them need every draft pick they can get to plug holes.
Also, to beat the Vikings proposed trade of pick 11, 23, a 3rd and 2025 1st we would have to trade pick 6, 47 and a future 1st and 2nd minimum. I don't think Schoen does that myself that's shooting yourself in the foot in an all out bidding war. We need rb, wr, cb, dl, s, lb, te, maybe an ol. Trading all that draft capital in a bidding war doesn't seem like a move Schoen makes imo, Maybe the reports that they are fond of JJM is just a smokescreen and they're in full bloom love with Maye to the tune of trading all that draft capital for him. My gut says that's not the case but it is 100% a possibility and the Pats would be much better off picking 6th vs 11th, but then they would miss out on a lot of top wrs and ol between pick 23 and 47, I know they have pick 35 too, but pick 23 vs 47 this year is a big difference maker hence why we would have to trade our 2025 2nd and this 2nd along with pick 6 imo.
A deal down to 6 is better for the Pats because they are 99.9% sure to get one of JJM or Nix there, whereas if they dealt with the Vikes at 11 they'd have to sweat things out with 4 teams there from 7 to 10 (Titans, Falcons, Bears, and Jets respectively) who would GLADLY make a deal with say the Raiders at 13 if they offered them enough. That would result in New England getting jumped. It's a very real possibility that no smart person who wants to draft a QB should subject themselves to, especially after having given up the opportunity to do so at 3. This is stone, cold common sense. The Pats would get a nice suite of picks from the Giants ('24 2nd rounder, '25 1st rounder & '25 3rd rounder) and be more than happy to move forward with this since they get their QB in this scenario. They don't necessarily get him in the Minnesota deal.
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is that the Vikings would NEVER make the move to get another first unless they had a deal in place with either the Chargers or Patriots. I don't agree with that, especially if they have Nix or Penix rated highly, having the second first to potentially nab one of them makes just as much sense.
So, if you strip that inference out of your argument (that the Vikings wouldn't make this deal unless they had an agreement in place) the rest completely falls apart.
I don't think any agreement is in place, but I think they are close on a deal as another asshat here has said. I agree with Todd McShay's point on this:
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The Vikings don’t make this move unless they’ve already had serious discussions with a specific team re: what it will take to move up for the QB they desire (presumably not named Caleb or Jayden). So is it NE at 3 (for Maye)? Or a team picking a couple/few spots down (for JJ)?
No asshat said they were close to a deal. He said that the Giants were putting their best offer in and hoping NE would accept it. You are inferring from that that it was rejected and they went with a Vikings offer instead.
Listen, you may end up right about all this, all I'm saying is you're making many inferential leaps at the moment to get to the conclusion you think is correct.
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In comment 16437007 LW_Giants said:
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is that the Vikings would NEVER make the move to get another first unless they had a deal in place with either the Chargers or Patriots. I don't agree with that, especially if they have Nix or Penix rated highly, having the second first to potentially nab one of them makes just as much sense.
So, if you strip that inference out of your argument (that the Vikings wouldn't make this deal unless they had an agreement in place) the rest completely falls apart.
I don't think any agreement is in place, but I think they are close on a deal as another asshat here has said. I agree with Todd McShay's point on this:
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The Vikings don’t make this move unless they’ve already had serious discussions with a specific team re: what it will take to move up for the QB they desire (presumably not named Caleb or Jayden). So is it NE at 3 (for Maye)? Or a team picking a couple/few spots down (for JJ)?
No asshat said they were close to a deal. He said that the Giants were putting their best offer in and hoping NE would accept it. You are inferring from that that it was rejected and they went with a Vikings offer instead.
Listen, you may end up right about all this, all I'm saying is you're making many inferential leaps at the moment to get to the conclusion you think is correct.
Check the thread called good Discussion on Sy's twitter/x.
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In comment 16436997 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 16436989 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16436968 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 16436941 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16436928 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 16436730 Giantsbigblue said:
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Would a QB desperate team like NE trade back if any of these guys are worth the pick?
Exactly. The OP seems to overlook this basic fact.
I thought I addressed that, but I'll go over it again. They aren't enamored with Maye and think he would struggle given his lack of refinement and their bottom of the barrel offense construction. They also like Nix and I think they would feel a lot better about their chances with Nix plus a promising tackle/wr and a 2025 1st plus an extra 3rd vs. the young unrefined Maye trotted out their with an offense lacking tackles and wrs. They really need a left tackle and a wr bar minimum to pair with a young qb, and they could get promising players at all 3 positions plus 2025 1st and a 3rd instead of Maye plus a 2nd round wr/tackle. They are probably the NFL's worst suited team to plug a young rookie qb into.
You don't get it. When you get a chance to get a young QB, you GET HIM! PERIOD! Dipping down to 11 instead of 6 is a bad move. The Pats will get their future QB at 6 since ARZ is going MHJr 4th. The Chargers can do whatever they wanna do at 5. That leaves one of JJM or Nix at 6---assuming Maye id traded up for by the Giants at 3 in this scenario fir the Pats instead of down to 11 with Minny. Pats woul be foolish to gamble by trading down to 11 and waiting for their QB to come to them when they can just do it at 6 and get their guy there while also obtaining a boatload of picks from the NYG in the process (say their 2nd this year, 1st and 3rd picks next year).
I totally get it, but the idea here is they like Nix a lot and they aren't enamored with Maye. Imagine they have Nix in the same tier or very close to Maye and McCarthy. Of course, of they were enamored with Maye or McCarthy then the obvious move is just to take him at 3. The reasoning behind trading down with the Vikings would be because they aren't enamored with Maye as reported, or with McCarthy while they like Nix and think they could land him after trading down with the Vikings and obtaining pick 11, 23, 2025 1st and a 3rd. That's a lot of ammo to rebuild while still getting an NFL ready qb whom they like.
There is no guarantee they would get a chance at Nix if they like him so much at 11, that's the main problem with your theory.
Payton is reportedly not trading up and I don't see any good partners for them to trade up with. Their team has as many or more holes than any team in the NFL and the cap mess they're in makes them need every draft pick they can get to plug holes.
Also, to beat the Vikings proposed trade of pick 11, 23, a 3rd and 2025 1st we would have to trade pick 6, 47 and a future 1st and 2nd minimum. I don't think Schoen does that myself that's shooting yourself in the foot in an all out bidding war. We need rb, wr, cb, dl, s, lb, te, maybe an ol. Trading all that draft capital in a bidding war doesn't seem like a move Schoen makes imo, Maybe the reports that they are fond of JJM is just a smokescreen and they're in full bloom love with Maye to the tune of trading all that draft capital for him. My gut says that's not the case but it is 100% a possibility and the Pats would be much better off picking 6th vs 11th, but then they would miss out on a lot of top wrs and ol between pick 23 and 47, I know they have pick 35 too, but pick 23 vs 47 this year is a big difference maker hence why we would have to trade our 2025 2nd and this 2nd along with pick 6 imo.
A deal down to 6 is better for the Pats because they are 99.9% sure to get one of JJM or Nix there, whereas if they dealt with the Vikes at 11 they'd have to sweat things out with 4 teams there from 7 to 10 (Titans, Falcons, Bears, and Jets respectively) who would GLADLY make a deal with say the Raiders at 13 if they offered them enough. That would result in New England getting jumped. It's a very real possibility that no smart person who wants to draft a QB should subject themselves to, especially after having given up the opportunity to do so at 3. This is stone, cold common sense. The Pats would get a nice suite of picks from the Giants ('24 2nd rounder, '25 1st rounder & '25 3rd rounder) and be more than happy to move forward with this since they get their QB in this scenario. They don't necessarily get him in the Minnesota deal.
I agree we can totally beat any offer the Vikings make in a bidding war. Question is, would Schoen do thst or did he give them his best offer and he really meant it? That offer GoDeep13 clued us in on was probably pick 6 2025 1st and 2025 3rd or so I'd figure. Maybe he goes back and does what it takes if he is in full bloom love which would be pixk 6, 47 and a future 1st and 2nd imo to beat the Vikings pick 11, 23 3rd rounder and a 2025 1st.
That's the big question and in my mind all signs point to it being with the Patriots. If they did all this to trade up to 5 it would be way too risky, what if we setup something with the Cardinals and Chargers to move up to 5 and then to 4 for JJM, the Cardinals could get MHJ and Chargers could get whoever they wanted while it would leave the Vikings holding the bag S.O.L. it's way too risky for it to just be to 5 from so many different potential scenarios. It's also a lot to trade without even knowing who they would get. That's in addition to all the reports and tea leaf reading I've explained already. I just don't see it being to 4 or 5. I really believe it's with the Patriots
I hadn't realized this, but it is congruent with my gut feeling that Harbaugh is a guy that likes to target blue chip players that fit his mold and he doesn't budge on trading them away for extra picks. The Chargers have a former all pro left tackle and I don't think Harbaugh would take a right tackle that high, especially in a draft so deep at tackle. They literally have 3 WRs on their active roster. Odunze fits the Harbaugh mold to a tee. He could be like Michael Crabtree was to Harbaugh's superbowl 49ers team in 2012. He is a hard working, highly coachable high character player that I think would fit perfectly and be exactly what Harbaugh wants. I don't see him trading down for the first time in his NFL coaching/managing career, especially with a guy like Odunze who torched him in the national championship game and is a perfect fit for the Harbaugh mold. He can then take a right tackle in rd 2 with several promising prospects that will be available. Then rb, dt and cb will be the focus imo. I see very little chance this deal in the works is with the Chargers or the Cardinals.
Harbaugh has also never taken an OL in the 1st round. Odunze is the guy imo and they won't be trading down.
1. Commanders trade for CW
2. Bears take Jayden Daniels
3. Vikings get Maye
4. AZ MHJ
5. LAC Odunze
6. JJM (Nabers is a great prospect but after his unpermitted gun incident at Mardis Gras I really think he's knocked down on our board, just not a Mara type of guy plain and simple)
7. Titans Alt
8. Falcons trade down a spot for a future 4th with Bears, Bears take Nabers
9. Falcons Dallas Turner
10. Jets take Fashanu or Fuaga
11. Pats take Nix
That's my top 11 mock and I'm sticking to it.
The Chargers are due to pay Herbert a $51mm option bonus this Friday (3/22). If this trade happens, it would need to occur this week.
Cardinals and OT - ( New Window )
1) Chicago-Williams.
2) WFT-Daniels.
3) Pats trade pick to Vikes who take either Drake or JJ.
4) 'Zona-Harrison Jr.
5) LAC...this is where it gets interesting. The teams-outside of us & Minnesota-that have been linked the most to trading up are LVR & Denver. & last time I checked, both of them are in the Chargers division. It makes little sense for them to allow one of them to move up & draft a potential franchise QB.
6) Us.
Interesting. I still think the Pats will stay at 3. The interesting spot is Arizona at 4 and a lot can happen there.
1. Stay put and draft MH Jr.
2. Trade back with LAC - speculative, but LAC may want to move up here to keep out Denver and LVR, though Arizona would risk losing out on MH Jr.
3. Trade back with NYG - I think this is the best trade partner for the Giants, as I don't think it would cost next year's first round pick.
4. Trade back with other team (LVR, Denver, Minnesota).
Every time I look at the New England roster I'm stuck with four HUGE needs:
QB
LT
WR
CB
With two picks in the top 34 and four core needs, I could still see NE being a trade-out candidate (with Minnesota) to collect more draft capital this year and potentially wait for '25 QB class if they don't love a Bo Nix or Michael Penix
Every time I look at the New England roster I'm stuck with four HUGE needs:
QB
LT
WR
CB
With two picks in the top 34 and four core needs, I could still see NE being a trade-out candidate (with Minnesota) to collect more draft capital this year and potentially wait for '25 QB class if they don't love a Bo Nix or Michael Penix
If they indeed do like Nix i think they could get him at 11. I don't think the Raiders are hot for him and the Broncos simply can't afford to trade picks at the beginning of a rebuild in cap hell. I also think if the Patriots like him they could beat any offer from the Broncos with ease if they needed to. Now if Nix becomes a solid NFL qb who can get you to the playoffs and maybe more, then they get say Brian Thomas Jr at 23 and Jordan Morgan at 34. Then they can go with another ol, wr or cb at pick 75. If Nix is as NFL ready as he seems, they could be competitive in 2024. Then in 2025 they could add a blue chipper or two and just keep cooking. It's what I would do if I were Wolf.
So kindly asking of course, who has reported this ?
Its kind of important to know the source for those who understand who is good at this stuff and for those of us who also know Tony Pauline doesn’t know shit.
Because hitting on a QB transforms a franchise.
Quote:
.. exactly how many scenarios have been proffered here thus far? There are too many good options likely to be available at 6. I can't understand why anyone would want to hand over multiple picks to move up for any one of those players -- supposed franchise QB or not. These GMs, coaches, and scouts are professionals risking enormous amounts of future $$$ on their choices. In their position, would you allow yourself to become enamored with just one scenario (or 2 or 3)? OK, you have your board and it has options -- which should include at least one "guaranteed" to get you a top choice at 6 -- or later. Just get prepared and BE prepared to make the best move, and hope it doesn't need to cost you picks. That's what I'd like to see, at least.
Because hitting on a QB transforms a franchise.
That's why I put "guaranteed" in quotes. He's not a franchise QB until years from now, IF he ever gets there. All these posters, representing, I'm guessing, a wide range of knowledge and prescience can't agree on who THE franchise QBs are in this group. If you don't have to gamble away picks to get a PLAYER, then don't.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Minnesota also moved forward at quarterback, first on a one-year, $10 million deal with Darnold, then on a trade with the Houston Texans (talks on it started before free agency) that’d give the Vikings a second first-round pick, arming them for a potential trade up. They also had plans in motion for quarterbacks coaches Josh McCown and Grant Udinski to be in Ann Arbor for Michigan QB J.J. McCarthy’s pro day this Friday. Minnesota also arranged a private workout on campus with McCarthy for next week, with O’Connell and Adofo-Mensah set to make that trip.
Link - ( New Window )
If Schoen shoved all his chips to the center he better find some more chips