How would you define the Jones Era thus far? Was he a bust or no?
On one hand, there's a contingent of fans who will immediately say he sucks, was a bust and set the franchise back for years without any critical thought. They want to draft a QB at all costs to move on from Danny.
On the other hand, there's a contingent of fans who will say that Jones didn't fail the Giants, the Giants failed Jones. They will treat anyone who thinks otherwise actively hates Jones without any critical thought. They would likely point to the idea that if you miss on the QB in the draft, you could set the franchise back for years as a reason to give Jones some more time.
I know everyone will immediately say "great, another Jones thread", but it is sort of interesting. Jones haters tend to brush aside the lack of talent around him which is unfair to Jones, but Jones defenders like to point out that finding a franchise QB in the draft isn't easy and if you miss, it really hurts the team going forward even though Jones at #6 seems to have done exactly that.
Is there a centrist POV?
But to answer the OP...YES! Dude was drafted sixth overall & he's a backup QB. That's the definition of a bust.
But to answer the OP...YES! Dude was drafted sixth overall & he's a backup QB. That's the definition of a bust.
He’s a backup QB? Since when?
When do other people get this sort of treatment? Why is everyone but Jones not responsible for his play/the team's overall ineptitude since he's been QB? Does Neal get this sort of rope?
This is a fucking cult.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
But to answer the OP...YES! Dude was drafted sixth overall & he's a backup QB. That's the definition of a bust.
He’s a backup QB? Since when?
ryan, I know you're trying you're best to be the president of the DJFC, but Jack Stroud beat you out pal. Sorry.
Dave Gettleman and the Giants Front Office is the bust you are looking for.
VS. A DEFENSE THAT LEGENDS LIKE MAC JONES CARVED UP IN '22. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD...STOP! I KNOW SOME OF YOU WANT A 30 FOR 30 ON THAT GAME, BUT GOD DAMMIT...THAT '22 VIKES DEFENSE SUCKED!
I have never seen such a devotion to such a mediocre to below average player.
An UDFA QB looked better than him.
He’s injury prone.
He’s a bust, 100%.
Trevor Lawrence is approaching that status, too, but he has a great HC and good talent around him. Good head on his shoulders. I feel better about his mental side of the game than I do, say, Justin Fields.
DJ can play in the league.
DJ can play in the league.
Is Sam Darnold a bust?
Jones has failed that, IMV.
So bust is where I go. And I do admit, btw, this organization around him has been incompetent, too.
2. If a QB can only succeed with a good OL and plus WRs then he wasnt worth the 6th pick and is basically dak prescott who i dont think is ever winning a thing.
DJ can play in the league.
His his play acceptable relative to his draft position?
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
But to answer the OP...YES! Dude was drafted sixth overall & he's a backup QB. That's the definition of a bust.
He’s a backup QB? Since when?
Since the day he was drafted
It’s mostly fringe nutters posting dozens of times a day, screaming at each other redundantly. Centrists, while they do exist, dont wade into that sewer Anymore….
My God they're like fucking flat earthers at this point
Dave Gettleman and the Giants Front Office is the bust you are looking for.
I think the word you are looking for is Boob, not bust, and DG most certainly was.
And DJ IS a bust, not was, because he remains the gift that keeps on giving. Maybe one day soon we can use the past tense.
And for the DJFC, I keep thinking about all the classic movie scenes:
"We'll always have the Minnesota game. Here's looking at you kid".
"Stupid is as stupid does".
"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in".
23-30 as NYG starter
22-36-1 as NYG a starter
Ones best record with Giants was 9-7-1 and the others best record was 9-6
Tim Tebow won a playoff game. He threw for 316 yds 2 Tds and rushed for 50 yards against the #1 defense in the NFL.
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Busts are guys like Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf who CANT play
DJ can play in the league.
Is Sam Darnold a bust?
Sam Darnold is 21-35 with 12064 yds and 63 TDs plus 12 rush TDs
Jones is 22-36-1 with 12562 tds and 62 TDs plus 13 rush TDs
Based on his body of work he can be a spot starter as a backup or a transition starter for some team looking to upgrade or draft a guy to sit and soon takeover but he is not winning you a Super Bowl and will never be an upper echelon consistent starter that is required to win in this league against elite teams.
He’s the definition of a bust. The Giants are the definition of idiots for giving him the contract extension.
He’s 22-36-1 as a starter. He’s thrown over 15 TD’s in a season once. Anybody but the Giants would have moved on, 2 seasons ago
Darnold
Allen
Rosen
Jackson
Murray
D. Jones
Haskins (RIP)
Burrow
Tua
Herbert
Love
Lawrence
Wilson
Lance
Fields
M. Jones
Pickett
Young
Stroud
Richardson
It's not like Daniel Jones sticks out like Ryan Leaf. I had no issues drafting him at 6, my issue was not having drafted a QB since. And then paying him $160M. I think I read today here that Jones is the 6th longest tenured QB with the same team in the NFL. Wtf.
The bold is a salient point and nails the situation.
It's all about expectations.
I guess you are right. There are levels to the “bust” label.
There’s Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. And then there are guys like Daniel Jones, Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky.
And yes, I put Trubisky, Jones and Darnold in the same category.
Zach Wilson closer to the Ryan Leaf level of bust than Jones or Trubisky.
http://pfref.com/pi/share/YLNg1
http://pfref.com/pi/share/Xa5E9
I would be okay with improving the team by taking a top notch receiver (Marvin of Rome) and an O-lineman (another draft strength) in the second. Then a QB in the 3rd or later like Rattler or Jordan Travis. Then see how Jones recovers. If poorly you still have options with Lock or the late round QB. I feel these receivers are blue chip and a receiver like that is not usually available.
Darnold
Allen
Rosen
Jackson
Murray
D. Jones
Haskins (RIP)
Burrow
Tua
Herbert
Love
Lawrence
Wilson
Lance
Fields
M. Jones
Pickett
Young
Stroud
Richardson
It's not like Daniel Jones sticks out like Ryan Leaf. I had no issues drafting him at 6, my issue was not having drafted a QB since. And then paying him $160M. I think I read today here that Jones is the 6th longest tenured QB with the same team in the NFL. Wtf.
You don't have to be Ryan Leaf level to be a bust. All it takes is not living up to your draft status. If you did a redraft of the 2019 draft today, would Jones be the sixth pick? No. Would he even be a day two pick? It's debatable.
But the takeaway is that in the redraft exercise, a lot of guys bust. More guys than not are busts.
If he was a 5th rounder he'd be on a different team already
drafted to be a starter. couldn't . Bust as a top 10 pick
What tier? In the right situation anyone can move up a bit.
6th overall pick should be good. He’s never been a good quarterback.
Tim Tebow and Blake Bortles weren’t busts?
From 2020-2023 the Giants didn't draft a single QB. 34 picks.
That's the sin.
Hopefully this is a lesson. Don't give the next guy a five year leash and a second contract. Two years. After that, either you know you've got your guy or start exploring options.
The Giants moved off Kadarius Toney after a year and a half. There is talk of moving Neal inside after a year and a half of play. DeAndre Baker was cut quickly after his arrest. Eli Apple was cut after a few short years.
Yet, when we talk about drafting QB it's such a long drawn out process. The Giants are way behind here.
The goal when drafting a QB in the first round should be five years as a productive starter. Then the decision is either to cut bait and let another team pay or give out a big contract. And teams should be drafting QBs every two years at least, probably every year.
If NYG drafts McCarthy, there is no reason not to consider QB in 2025 and definitely by 2026. Treat it like any other position. Why is there such fear?
I understand the desire to write him off, but I think he gets one more season. ACL injury or not, he has to be ready to go the second he's healthy enough to start. Starting, by the way, is not necessarily guaranteed. While it's unlikely, Drew Lock could be a late bloomer. He's not had much opportunity, and I recall him looking pretty good in a couple of spot starts with Geno Smith hurt last year. He's got a huge arm. I'm liking that signing more and more as a dark horse answer at QB if DJ can't get it done.
The Giants moved off Kadarius Toney after a year and a half. There is talk of moving Neal inside after a year and a half of play. DeAndre Baker was cut quickly after his arrest. Eli Apple was cut after a few short years.
Yet, when we talk about drafting QB it's such a long drawn out process. The Giants are way behind here.
The goal when drafting a QB in the first round should be five years as a productive starter. Then the decision is either to cut bait and let another team pay or give out a big contract. And teams should be drafting QBs every two years at least, probably every year.
If NYG drafts McCarthy, there is no reason not to consider QB in 2025 and definitely by 2026. Treat it like any other position. Why is there such fear?
Because ownership, the media, and much of the fanbase look backward in time to inform their opinions. What have we heard throughout this process...
"Remember when Simms got benched for Scott Brunner? He turned it around and won the Super Bowl."
"Remember when Eli threw five interceptions against the Vikings? He turned it around and won two Super Bowls."
People are looking back in time, not across the current landscape too see who's doing it right and wrong.
The Giants moved off Kadarius Toney after a year and a half. There is talk of moving Neal inside after a year and a half of play. DeAndre Baker was cut quickly after his arrest. Eli Apple was cut after a few short years.
Yet, when we talk about drafting QB it's such a long drawn out process. The Giants are way behind here.
The goal when drafting a QB in the first round should be five years as a productive starter. Then the decision is either to cut bait and let another team pay or give out a big contract. And teams should be drafting QBs every two years at least, probably every year.
If NYG drafts McCarthy, there is no reason not to consider QB in 2025 and definitely by 2026. Treat it like any other position. Why is there such fear?
They are so afraid of setting the franchise back five years, they're setting back the franchise 10 years. Fear is the crippler.
If you think it was a mistake so be it, but the same guys who gave him a second contract are the same who only get to watch video of the draftable QBs and meet with them briefly to make a decision.
Everyone makes mistakes but a true bust never gets a contract that pays them in the top 15 at their position. I’m pretty confident in saying that DJ will be the Giants QB in 2024 when he gets healthy. I have a feeling that the Giants tried to move up in the draft but the cost was too high so they pulled the plug on that idea and are sticking with what they have. WR at 6.
Don’t take a QB just to take a QB. They clearly can’t get the guy they want.
If you think it was a mistake so be it, but the same guys who gave him a second contract are the same who only get to watch video of the draftable QBs and meet with them briefly to make a decision.
Everyone makes mistakes but a true bust never gets a contract that pays them in the top 15 at their position. I’m pretty confident in saying that DJ will be the Giants QB in 2024 when he gets healthy. I have a feeling that the Giants tried to move up in the draft but the cost was too high so they pulled the plug on that idea and are sticking with what they have. WR at 6.
Don’t take a QB just to take a QB. They clearly can’t get the guy they want.
WR at 6 and everyone's fired next year. Can't wiat for another reset
1) Was overdrafted / significantly overdrafted at 6th overall.
2) Has missed significant number of games due to injury, with long term career viability very much in question.
3) Has a higher degree of "not seeing open receivers" than expected for a top 10 pick
4) Has a higher tendency to check down than would be expected for a top 10 pick
5) Lack overt ability to lead / rally / inspire his teammates
Positives:
1) Has shown to be a "dual threat" passing and running when surrounded by at least average protection and weapons (a rarity in his career)
2) Appears to be above average in intelligence
3) Has the prototype height and speed for the position
4) Generally is a "good guy" and is liked by teammates
5) No off the field issues
That's a "as quick as I can type them / no deep thoughts" list of 5 positives and 5 negatives. Of course they are not weighted equally.
I know we are all worried he will get hurt and screw us over for 2025,but 2024 hasn't even happened yet.
He is paid accordingly and could still play for 7 more years for all we know
Please, drop a line or two about every passing TD from that season.
15 sentences can't be too rough.
If you think it was a mistake so be it, but the same guys who gave him a second contract are the same who only get to watch video of the draftable QBs and meet with them briefly to make a decision.
Everyone makes mistakes but a true bust never gets a contract that pays them in the top 15 at their position. I’m pretty confident in saying that DJ will be the Giants QB in 2024 when he gets healthy. I have a feeling that the Giants tried to move up in the draft but the cost was too high so they pulled the plug on that idea and are sticking with what they have. WR at 6.
Don’t take a QB just to take a QB. They clearly can’t get the guy they want.
Brock Osweiler. Blake Bortles. Daniel Jones.
He's actually a fraud, more than anything else.
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The 2nd regime came in and evaluated him for a year and determined he was worth a 2nd contract. Not the highest 2nd contract but they had hands on knowledge of the player on a daily basis. A true bust doesn’t get a 2nd contract near that level.
If you think it was a mistake so be it, but the same guys who gave him a second contract are the same who only get to watch video of the draftable QBs and meet with them briefly to make a decision.
Everyone makes mistakes but a true bust never gets a contract that pays them in the top 15 at their position. I’m pretty confident in saying that DJ will be the Giants QB in 2024 when he gets healthy. I have a feeling that the Giants tried to move up in the draft but the cost was too high so they pulled the plug on that idea and are sticking with what they have. WR at 6.
Don’t take a QB just to take a QB. They clearly can’t get the guy they want.
Brock Osweiler. Blake Bortles. Daniel Jones.
Blake Bortles received a well under market value contract, he wasn’t even in the top 20 for salaries at the time and Osweiler was not resigned by his team he was drafted to and they let him hit Free Agency and the Texans signed him to a big contract off of 7 starts in 4 years.
We know who likes him and who doesn't, you'll get the same people say the same things...
For Jones sake, I hope he doesn't read this site. He's still a young guy, not working out for him in NY, maybe somewhere else.
From 2020-2023 the Giants didn't draft a single QB. 34 picks.
That's the sin.
Hopefully this is a lesson. Don't give the next guy a five year leash and a second contract. Two years. After that, either you know you've got your guy or start exploring options.
I don’t generally disagree with what you are saying here. Except when you say they should have drafted Herbert in 2020 it contradicts what you say in the last paragraph about give a guy two years and that’s it.
Jones was drafted in 2019, so drafting Herbert in 2020 would have been giving up on Jones after one year. I think Schoen messed up the Jones shitshow in two different ways. For starters he should have picked up his 5th year option. The second mistake was wasting time haggling with Saquon over a reported $1M instead of just signing him to a 3 year deal and franchising Jones. If he would have done that Jones would be off the books and you would have Saquon for two more years at a pretty affordable rate for a multi purpose back since salaries were not as lucrative for RB’s last offseason.
And it’s not a hindsight is 20/20 thing, I thought he fucked up the Jones/Barkley deals right after he made them.
This is just hilarious, so delusional
From 2020-2023 the Giants didn't draft a single QB. 34 picks.
That's the sin.
Hopefully this is a lesson. Don't give the next guy a five year leash and a second contract. Two years. After that, either you know you've got your guy or start exploring options.
The 5 year leash was insane. Doubling down with the contract after 22’ is a textbook example of confirmation bias and elite level malpractice. They looked for what the wanted to see instead of what Jones was…
When you have a true franchise guy they will make it obvious to you in various ways — flashes with big games, signal stats (TDs, yards, Y/A), winning in the clutch, beating good teams/defenses. If you have to still ask if you can win with a guy after more than 2-3 years then move on because chances are you can’t.
Five games?
He's 18 games removed from beating a JV defense in the playoffs.
The Philly game the next week counts, as do the missed games in 2023.
Injuries factor into the equation as well, thus the missed games do count.
Blake Bortles is thrilled to know that you have removed him from "bust" consideration.
He is ‘not good enough’. Feel free to call it a bust or not, doesn’t affect the reality we need to move on. Due to his injuries, his future prospects don’t look good. Bad pick and disappointing career.
Eagles also were jumping routes in the playoff game and Bradberry discussed this.
Eagles also were jumping routes in the playoff game and Bradberry discussed this.
Bust. And the decision to give him the second contract at that price was idiotic.
I can look at the Philly playoff game and see a lot of big problems outside of Jones. That is not a new rule.
Five games?
He's 18 games removed from beating a JV defense in the playoffs.
It really comes down to this point -- do the Giants feel Jones is healthy and will suffer no ill effects from the 2023 injuries.
If they feel the latest injuries are isolated and don't portend future health issues, I can fearfully see them not making a move for a quarterback.
It’s mostly fringe nutters posting dozens of times a day, screaming at each other redundantly. Centrists, while they do exist, dont wade into that sewer Anymore….
+1...this
Answering the second part of that first, I think if you re-drafted the 2019 class, Jones probably does not go until the second or third day, certainly not a first. So in that regard, yes he was a bust.
But then when you factor in the fact that the Giants gave him a lucrative second contract? It seems like they did not regret the decision. You can argue it was desperation / Minnesota Derangement Syndrome, or whatever else, but they did want to keep him.
Like all things with Jones, that answer can be argued several ways depending on your bias for/against the player.
If they feel the latest injuries are isolated and don't portend future health issues, I can fearfully see them not making a move for a quarterback.
You know I feel similarly.
Here comes my super cynical side, but what if all this talk about scouting QBs and trying to trade up was just a big bluff to give the illusion of moving on from Jones. And the plan all along was to find the best WR to add from the draft for Jones.
They have added a younger, more talented backup QB than the prior backup. Lock has said all the right things about this being DJ's team and he's here to be supportive. And early moves were made to plug gaping holes on the OL.
I hope I'm completely wrong and look dumber than ever, but Schoen's words were essentially this: they will look to address the QB position in the draft OR free agency. Maybe Lock is that answer from free agency...
I understand the desire to write him off, but I think he gets one more season. ACL injury or not, he has to be ready to go the second he's healthy enough to start. Starting, by the way, is not necessarily guaranteed. While it's unlikely, Drew Lock could be a late bloomer. He's not had much opportunity, and I recall him looking pretty good in a couple of spot starts with Geno Smith hurt last year. He's got a huge arm. I'm liking that signing more and more as a dark horse answer at QB if DJ can't get it done.
How is last season just a write off? Those games he played didn't count?
It's not like he struggled and was up and down. He was beyond awful. Make any excuse you want he still deserves blame.
I can't just ignore that.
Eagles also were jumping routes in the playoff game and Bradberry discussed this.
And why is it the Eagles were “jumping routes”? Players in the league have told us why they jump routes against the Giants. Its no secret why…
Could he have been successful with an average cast (rather than league worst) around him? Who knows - he's obviously not without warts (lacks gunslinger instincts/swagger, is injury prone etc.).
But whatever DJ may have been, its been destroyed. When you endure a career without weapons, a run game, viable pass blocking, you have no shot to succeed.
Perhaps we move onto bigger things like finding a QB that we won't ruin.
Other fan bases laugh at Jones. Laugh.
we won't quit until we roll the odometer over!
Question is absurd.
Question is absurd.
To clarify, Jones is a non-bust in your eyes.