Hum. It's why I'm not expecting a trade up... or JJ at #6. Kinda' 'business as usual' at 1925 Giants Drive. Though I do think Penix or Nix in the middle of the first round might be in play. This was already touched on earlier here (the report), BTW.
In my wishful thinking post, some posters challenged me that if Giants don't intend to replace DJ, why would they fly a SB QB to NY and had a meeting with him. My response was that's just due dilligence. And of course, those posters don't believe me.
Here's why- if you say anyone else besides Jones has a shot at starting you 100% say we are looking for a QB in the draft. Though that could be the sentiment outside already the Giants have maintain the argument that Jones is the guy. You have to keep that belief at least from our side or you are never going to get anyone to deal with you and you will incite any and every one who wants a QB to move up ahead of us.
Jones's days are 100% numbered. It doesn't guarantee a draft pick here but it certainly does guarantee that his time here is like a cab meter it is a countdown clock.
Here's why- if you say anyone else besides Jones has a shot at starting you 100% say we are looking for a QB in the draft. Though that could be the sentiment outside already the Giants have maintain the argument that Jones is the guy. You have to keep that belief at least from our side or you are never going to get anyone to deal with you and you will incite any and every one who wants a QB to move up ahead of us.
Jones's days are 100% numbered. It doesn't guarantee a draft pick here but it certainly does guarantee that his time here is like a cab meter it is a countdown clock.
Or it could be that the Giants were trying to gauge Wilson's reaction if he was going to be the back-up. You are not going to say "Russell we are drafting a QB in the first round" because you don't want that getting out.
Here's why- if you say anyone else besides Jones has a shot at starting you 100% say we are looking for a QB in the draft. Though that could be the sentiment outside already the Giants have maintain the argument that Jones is the guy. You have to keep that belief at least from our side or you are never going to get anyone to deal with you and you will incite any and every one who wants a QB to move up ahead of us.
Jones's days are 100% numbered. It doesn't guarantee a draft pick here but it certainly does guarantee that his time here is like a cab meter it is a countdown clock.
You've pretty much got it I think. The Giants are basically trying to sell a false narrative here. It may actually work in their favor as it leaves the fanbase unsettled and given their history many will think it's true.
I still have my moments of doubt but I tend to believe Jones is finished here.
If they draft a QB in first round and the Giants go 7-3 at the bye, and DJ is healthy and playing very well with a much better oline? It’s a good problem to have. I know this scenario scares the DJ haters to death lol!
New York Giants
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM) https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
Very good info Eric. Schoen is a big proponent of evaluating guys by getting around them and really getting to know them. While we should not give this organization the benefit of the doubt on anything based on recent history, I have to think they would not be bringing in all of those QBs for visits if they were not serious about drafting one this year. Also, as point of reference, in 2022 3 guys the Giants took came in for Top 30 visits (Kayvon, Neal and Flott), and in 2023 4 guys the Giants took were in their Top 30 (Banks, Hawkins, JMS and Hyatt) along with Payne Durham who the Giants appeared to have been prepared to take if the Bucs did not grab him the pick before.
Most people would agree Russell is on his downside so why would there be a discussion when he’s not guaranteed a starting spot? Even the Steelers hedged the signing by trading for Fields. And I was a huge RW fan.
It’s fine, let Jones start and get another coach/GM fired.
Have the new regime pick its own QB at the top of the draft. Let’s please get rid of all the potential excuses for Jones this year. I don’t want anyone feeling sorry for Jones because he doesn’t have an all-pro kicker.
Have Mara the idiot try to entice us back with a medium
Pepsi.
follow the actions, not the words. What good would it do the Giants to telegraph to the world they're taking QB? Also as Eric pointed out here, look at the 30 visits. Going off the last two drafts, it's a good barometer of what the Giants are looking to do, and there's already 3 of the top QB's listed in those visits.
RE: If Jones is the starter going forward, this franchise is a laughing
sitting there staring us in the face. The Giants are done with Jones and that was no more evident than when we didn't even try to keep Barkley.
It doesn't mean he will be replaced by a draft pick yet but it sure does seem like the replacement will be sought this year if possible and most certainly next year.
If they draft a QB in first round and the Giants go 7-3 at the bye, and DJ is healthy and playing very well with a much better oline? It’s a good problem to have. I know this scenario scares the DJ haters to death lol!
Then he gets traded for decent compensation.
In a perfect world he looks good early and gets traded before the deadline for good comp.
Lock flat out said that he was told Jones would be the starter last week. However, I also don't think this means anything with regards to the Giants draft plans. They were never going to sit Jones purely because of the injury guarantee (as dumb as that is) even if they draft a QB. Jones if healthy will start the year and the rookie will start on the bench, as is often the case for rookie QB's.
If the Giants plan is to not draft a QB and to start Jones until he gets healthy, then the Giants deserve the misery that is ahead.
If they draft a QB in first round and the Giants go 7-3 at the bye, and DJ is healthy and playing very well with a much better oline? It’s a good problem to have. I know this scenario scares the DJ haters to death lol!
That is definitively NOT the scenario that scares intelligent Giants fans.
The terrifying scenario is the one where DJ's injury guarantee triggers for 2025 and the Giants are left with a significant cap hit next year for a QB that once again got hurt.
The only thing that makes your scenario remotely frightening is the challenge it presents in replacing DJ a year from now with a potentially lower pick to start with.
Since Seattle put out that bullcrap that Lock was told he would compete with Jones to be the starter. That previous story made no sense and Lock himself denied it, but half of BBI apparently believed it.
RE: According to Walter Football...these are the 30 visits so far
Really? Just think about that. Do you think JS makes moves as if they're bread crumbs so everyone in the media and BBI posters can figure out exactly what will happen with the 6th pick? Wow, just wow!
If they draft a QB in first round and the Giants go 7-3 at the bye, and DJ is healthy and playing very well with a much better oline? It’s a good problem to have. I know this scenario scares the DJ haters to death lol!
Playing very well is something that hasn’t happened in 5 years so nobody is scared
When the Giants signed Kerry Collins (off the scrap heap, when he was drinking and faced credible accusations of making racist comments), the Giants invariably referred to him as “backup quarterback Kerry Collins. It was comical. It was like he’d changed his first name to “backup quarterback.”
It was also kind of disingenuous. He was obviously better than the QBs they had, provided he could stop drinking and get his life together.
This is how the Giants do business. They don’t publicly displace a starting QB with a guy they’ve brought in this way. They may have intentions of replacing the QB, but they don’t announce those plans.
The Steelers may salvage Wilson but they had to jettison their starter, Kenny Pickett. The Giants aren’t in a position to do the same to Jones unless someone is willing to trade for him and take on his contract.
Since Seattle put out that bullcrap that Lock was told he would compete with Jones to be the starter. That previous story made no sense and Lock himself denied it, but half of BBI apparently believed it.
For what it's worth, either Big Blue Banter or Talkin' Giants (I can't remember which), said that they had it well sourced that the Giants were almost shocked that Wilson signed with Pittsburgh instead of the Giants. I don't think the Giants would have had that kind of reaction if the opportunity they presented to Wilson was as a backup if Jones is healthy. Also, Mara in particular apparently has a good relationship with Wilson, so it's completely plausible that once that Seattle story broke the Giants reached out to Russ's camp and asked him convey the Giants' company line of Jones being the starter if healthy.
The goal of any GM is to make predicting what his team will do / who they will draft as uncertain as possible, to make moves to jump ahead of his team to risky.
I wouldn’t doubt that to offset the public “Daniel Jones is our starting QB” are behind the scenes comments and “leaks” that the Giants have “buyer’s remorse” and are “done with Daniel Jones”.
RE: RE: I know there's a huge divide on Daniel Jones around here,
but is this really news? Would bringing Wilson in as a starter make anyone more confident?
Yes.
Then you obviously havent watched much NFL football outside of the Giants the past 2 years. Look at the financial hit the Broncos just willingly took on just to get Wilson the heck off of their team. He was that bad....not only as a QB but as a teammate and leader. I dont like Jones either, but to assure THIS guy that he would be starting ahead of Jones??? We aint talking about a Mahomes, Burrow or Herbert here....to make an assurance like that to Wilson after his performance the last two years would have been the ultimate dumb move.
Russell Wilson - Told Jones was 100% the starter and he would be a back up only
Drew Lock - Told he'd compete with Jones to start
I'm sure both these things are true.............
So Lock can compete for the starting gig but Wilson can't.
Mixed messages or flat out lies.
That is why I posted above that the Giants have not ruled out taking a QB early. Lock has demonstrated that he is comfortable if he is in a back-up role having been behind Geno Smith. The big question about Wilson is would he accept being a bridge QB at this point of his career. So you tell Wilson he is going to be the back-up to see his reaction.
The goal of any GM is to make predicting what his team will do / who they will draft as uncertain as possible, to make moves to jump ahead of his team to risky.
I wouldn’t doubt that to offset the public “Daniel Jones is our starting QB” are behind the scenes comments and “leaks” that the Giants have “buyer’s remorse” and are “done with Daniel Jones”.
The "lying season" part is fair, but I think you have the scenarios reversed with regard to which is smoke and which is fire.
The Giants gain nothing by intentionally leaking that they're done with DJ. All it does is drag DJ through the mud for the very slight chance that they can entice someone to move up in front of them to take a QB, and the result is that they'd have a choice between Odunze and Nabers instead of the leftover of those same two receivers.
Much more likely that the "buyer's remorse" chatter was accurate but never intended to get out to the public, and what has since followed is the smokescreen. Not only is the sequence of those conflicting messages telling (the "it's been conveyed to me that DJ is the starter" came after "buyer's remorse" and John Schneider's reveal about Lock competing for QB1), but it also makes much more logical sense to force the narrative toward being confident in DJ to remain the starter; there's much more benefit to that being misinformation than there is in the Rich Eisen story being the fake info.
RE: RE: RE: I know there's a huge divide on Daniel Jones around here,
Then you obviously havent watched much NFL football outside of the Giants the past 2 years. Look at the financial hit the Broncos just willingly took on just to get Wilson the heck off of their team.
If you don't understand things like guarantee triggers (the Broncos were about to face the trigger for Wilson's 2025 salary vesting as guaranteed), I don't think you get to call other fans out for not being aware of league activity.
follow the actions, not the words. What good would it do the Giants to telegraph to the world they're taking QB? Also as Eric pointed out here, look at the 30 visits. Going off the last two drafts, it's a good barometer of what the Giants are looking to do, and there's already 3 of the top QB's listed in those visits.
Actions:
1. Passed on Hodgins ERFA tender
2. Did not sign a legitimate WR to replace Hodgins, only McKenzie who is a gadget/slot/returner
3. Met with all top 3 WR at combine & hosted them on a top 30
4. Signed a QB who can spot start for an injured Jones if need be
5. Scouted Maye and Williams heavily
Words (not directly from Giants)
1. Giants making calls to trade up (due diligence, don’t doubt it considering point 5)
2. Giants want McCarthy
3. Giants are done with Jones
Words (from Giants)
1. Jones is our starter
2. We will sign a veteran QB
My thoughts on all of this: Giants love the consensus top 2 QB prospects from beginning of the year…as do most other teams without a top tier franchise QB. Reality is most of those teams, including Giants, will not have even get a chance to draft either guy. Moving past that, the big need on the team is …WR. This class is strong at WR at the top, and need meets value at 6. The Giants have shown interest in all top guys. They have not made any effort to upgrade the position, while their (arguably) best remaining weapon is contemplating retirement.
It’s easy for people outside of the building to draw the easy like from QB4 to the 4th team in the draft order that could use an upgrade at QB. What those people don’t have any idea is whether the team “likes” the QB. The fact that it is being reported tells me
A. That easy line is being drawn (duh)
B. If the Giants are “telegraphing” their love for McCarthy, it’s for a reason - and that reason has nothing to do with them actually loving McCarthy - and more to do with them hoping the guy they actually want slips (it’s lying season)
I know our asshats have mentioned McCarthy a bit, and they often have very good information on signings etc. FA is a different animal than the draft. FA is a free for all, involves agents, while the draft is a fixed order. The draft is all about deception, and throwing other teams off your potential strategy.. Remember, there are only a few people who control the draft decision - with Schoen being the final decision maker. Because of that, those 3 control everything legitimate that gets out. So if they do put something out there, it’s smoke.. Beyond them, nobody knows - and I doubt Js is leaking his draft board to our asshats or their sources.
What's the strategy there if they are 100% on dumping Jones?
I think the Giants are open to Jones being the starter in 2024 if the QBs they like aren't there at 6. The last thing Schoen and Mara want is to be all in on moving on from Jones and getting left at the altar. That would be the disaster scenario for Mara.
RE: I am no legal expert....but that injury clause
There are several misconception....that become reailty....here...that is just childish.
Of course it counts against the cap. The Broncos asked Wilson to waive his last year, and when he refused they benched him. That wasn't done to save on the insurance pay out.
The only non-cap hit would be if Jones had his own injury insurance. But that is not what is being talked about here. It is the injury clause in his contract with the Giants.
RE: RE: RE: According to Walter Football...these are the 30 visits so far
New York Giants
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM) https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
Isaac is the only private visit on that list.
does that mean something?
It means those aren't private visits in NJ. Those COM visits were all visits at the combine. They aren't part of the 30 private visits each team is allowed (plus local players).
After Schneider's comments they have Lock saying he was told Jones would be the starter to discredit Schneider and now they are likely planting stories about having told Russell Wilson the same thing. Since, you know, having it happen twice it has to be true... right?
All smoke. Daniel Jones is not long for this team.
While I agree, I still also look at our actions in 2018 and we went RB. I mean we had the Maras dining with all these QBs and Tisch flying in. So Im still not shutting the door on the possibility that its not gonna happen.
follow the actions, not the words. What good would it do the Giants to telegraph to the world they're taking QB? Also as Eric pointed out here, look at the 30 visits. Going off the last two drafts, it's a good barometer of what the Giants are looking to do, and there's already 3 of the top QB's listed in those visits.
Actions:
1. Passed on Hodgins ERFA tender
2. Did not sign a legitimate WR to replace Hodgins, only McKenzie who is a gadget/slot/returner
3. Met with all top 3 WR at combine & hosted them on a top 30
4. Signed a QB who can spot start for an injured Jones if need be
5. Scouted Maye and Williams heavily
Words (not directly from Giants)
1. Giants making calls to trade up (due diligence, don’t doubt it considering point 5)
2. Giants want McCarthy
3. Giants are done with Jones
Words (from Giants)
1. Jones is our starter
2. We will sign a veteran QB
My thoughts on all of this: Giants love the consensus top 2 QB prospects from beginning of the year…as do most other teams without a top tier franchise QB. Reality is most of those teams, including Giants, will not have even get a chance to draft either guy. Moving past that, the big need on the team is …WR. This class is strong at WR at the top, and need meets value at 6. The Giants have shown interest in all top guys. They have not made any effort to upgrade the position, while their (arguably) best remaining weapon is contemplating retirement.
It’s easy for people outside of the building to draw the easy like from QB4 to the 4th team in the draft order that could use an upgrade at QB. What those people don’t have any idea is whether the team “likes” the QB. The fact that it is being reported tells me
A. That easy line is being drawn (duh)
B. If the Giants are “telegraphing” their love for McCarthy, it’s for a reason - and that reason has nothing to do with them actually loving McCarthy - and more to do with them hoping the guy they actually want slips (it’s lying season)
I know our asshats have mentioned McCarthy a bit, and they often have very good information on signings etc. FA is a different animal than the draft. FA is a free for all, involves agents, while the draft is a fixed order. The draft is all about deception, and throwing other teams off your potential strategy.. Remember, there are only a few people who control the draft decision - with Schoen being the final decision maker. Because of that, those 3 control everything legitimate that gets out. So if they do put something out there, it’s smoke.. Beyond them, nobody knows - and I doubt Js is leaking his draft board to our asshats or their sources.
follow the actions, not the words. What good would it do the Giants to telegraph to the world they're taking QB? Also as Eric pointed out here, look at the 30 visits. Going off the last two drafts, it's a good barometer of what the Giants are looking to do, and there's already 3 of the top QB's listed in those visits.
Actions:
1. Passed on Hodgins ERFA tender
2. Did not sign a legitimate WR to replace Hodgins, only McKenzie who is a gadget/slot/returner
3. Met with all top 3 WR at combine & hosted them on a top 30
4. Signed a QB who can spot start for an injured Jones if need be
5. Scouted Maye and Williams heavily
Words (not directly from Giants)
1. Giants making calls to trade up (due diligence, don’t doubt it considering point 5)
2. Giants want McCarthy
3. Giants are done with Jones
Words (from Giants)
1. Jones is our starter
2. We will sign a veteran QB
You left out everything from the actions that goes against your narrative.
Bringing in Wilson
Letting Saqoun walk
Interest in Winston
Trade for Burns
Agree . If he is starting FA and draft are now meaningless. WR at 6 is totally meaningless. He is incompetent. If he had Jerry Rice and Randy Moss in their prime Giants offense would still be bottom three .
at least 50% of BBI will loose their minds, call for Schoen and Davoli to be shown the door and be immediately replaced by Little Bill who has been waiting in the wings to be Little Bill 2.0.
at least 50% of BBI will loose their minds, call for Schoen and Davoli to be shown the door and be immediately replaced by Little Bill who has been waiting in the wings to be Little Bill 2.0.
Yes. This is why I'm dreading draft night.
RE: RE: According to Walter Football...these are the 30 visits so far
New York Giants
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM) https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
BTW, I'm pretty sure Marvin Harrison, Jr. was a 30 visit too.
30 visits are a valuable commodity. It's clear along with WRs, they are looking at the QBs at the top of the draft.
So far the only 30 visits I've seen confirmed (as of 6 days ago) were the three top receivers, Maye and Isaac. Unconfirmed but rumored were Alt and Turner. NFL Trade Rumors said UTEP LB Tyreke Knight had a visit scheduled, along with Washington State CB Chau Smith-Wade. I'm sure there have been some more.
But that Walter list is not 30 visits, it's all contacts from the Senior Bowl through the private 30 visits. The good news is it's obvious the Giants have met with a lot more players than that in that time, but they seem to be keeping them quiet.
You can do the whole ‘F off SFGF! You aren’t a true fan!’ thing, which is fine. But I absolutely no interest in the 2024 Giants if they’re forcing Jones down our throat again. None. I can’t do it anymore with this guy. At least a new QB gives the fan base hope.
You can do the whole ‘F off SFGF! You aren’t a true fan!’ thing, which is fine. But I absolutely no interest in the 2024 Giants if they’re forcing Jones down our throat again. None. I can’t do it anymore with this guy. At least a new QB gives the fan base hope.
I'm also terrified that they move heaven and earth to draft JJ and he sucks. This franchise has really broken my spirit. It's one thing to have a bad decade+, it's another thing to just be laughably, totally, and woefully incompetent. The Giants have been in Knicks territory for a while now. (And now the Knicks have finally turned it around!)
No, there were tweets about the QBs. That's why I did a search on the Walter site to confirm. There are articles on Maye visiting too.
The only thing I've found online about Daniels and McCarthy is they met with he Giants at the combine. The only thing I've found anywhere about a QB private visit in NJ was Maye. Where did you see the other two made visits?
For some reason... I have a feeling Nix might be an under the radar signing for the G-men. There's so much BS swirling around right now, except on Nix and Penix. I wonder if those two are quietly higher on the Giants radar. Maybe with a trade down. And yes a WR at #6 wouldn't shock me at all either.
Man I just have zero idea what to expect this year. I think the Giants are doing a good job at keeping everyone guessing.
You can do the whole ‘F off SFGF! You aren’t a true fan!’ thing, which is fine. But I absolutely no interest in the 2024 Giants if they’re forcing Jones down our throat again. None. I can’t do it anymore with this guy. At least a new QB gives the fan base hope.
Because only the teams in the top 3 or 4 have control over getting one of the consensus QBs. So if you're going to put everything in your fandom emotionally into the QB or bust basket, then you better come to the reality that even if the team desperately wants a QB, it may not play out that way.
I look at it like this: I hope they get a good QB but acts of desperation rarely pay out in the end. The team isn't going to win a SB next year regardless but has an opportunity to make themselves significantly better. If the future of the position doesn't happen this year, that's unfortunate, but the team can still move the arrow significantly in the right direction. I'm not going to throw a fit about it.
Most draft scenarios have 3 QB and 3 WR going top six
follow the actions, not the words. What good would it do the Giants to telegraph to the world they're taking QB? Also as Eric pointed out here, look at the 30 visits. Going off the last two drafts, it's a good barometer of what the Giants are looking to do, and there's already 3 of the top QB's listed in those visits.
Actions:
1. Passed on Hodgins ERFA tender
2. Did not sign a legitimate WR to replace Hodgins, only McKenzie who is a gadget/slot/returner
3. Met with all top 3 WR at combine & hosted them on a top 30
4. Signed a QB who can spot start for an injured Jones if need be
5. Scouted Maye and Williams heavily
Words (not directly from Giants)
1. Giants making calls to trade up (due diligence, don’t doubt it considering point 5)
2. Giants want McCarthy
3. Giants are done with Jones
Words (from Giants)
1. Jones is our starter
2. We will sign a veteran QB
You left out everything from the actions that goes against your narrative.
Bringing in Wilson
Letting Saqoun walk
Interest in Winston
Trade for Burns
Wilson: That would actually further support the narrative, since he was told Jones is the starter. The wanted a backup for Jones. I really don’t think Wilson’s camp has anything to gain from putting out misinformation about the Giants at this point in their process.
Barkley: doesn’t mean much to me, besides them not wanting to pay a RB going into year 7. If anything, they lost their best weapon and need a new go-to guy amongst skill group.
Winston: He’s in same category as Lock, who I mentioned in the post. The Giants ended up with Lock. JW signed a similar deal but with more incentives. Perhaps Cle offered more financial upside and he chose there, or perhaps he liked the landing spot more…or maybe Giants liked Lock at his price more.
Burns: I really see no parallel, other than getting a very good, young player at a premium position for a 2nd round pick. They saved on not retaining Barkley & McKinney - probably with the intent of upgrading pass rush and OL. If your point is that the Giants are getting ready for a rookie QB contract, I think you are reading too much into the cap methodology that podcasters spread around the internet. The Giants can pay Jones and Burns next year and beyond with little to no issue, if Jones plays well enough remains here. I imagine a restructure is not out of the picture - where Jones takes a paycut to remain in 2025. If he flat out stinks this year, they will likely move on and be in position to draft (or acquire) a new QB in 2025.
RE: According to Walter Football...these are the 30 visits so far
are backup/starter wannabe material, not the future. Until DJ is healthy, he is publicly listed as the starter. There's no point in saying anything other than that.
But, it's obvious the faith in DJ is wavering, so no matter what they tell/told Wilson and Lock, a strong showing by Lock (and/or Wilson if they had signed him) in camp puts DJ's starting days in jeopardy.
And it is obvious that Giants want to draft a QB. Being in a tough spot in the QB draft order, and with a line in the sand regarding how much they're willing to trade up, we may not end up drafting an obvious QB replacement for Jones.
They want to replace DJ. If they thought Wilson was that replacement, they would have been more aggressive in signing him.
Could the Giants and DJ re-work the injury guarantee? Say they go to DJ and let it be known that they want to re-work the guarantee and if so, he has a fair shot at being the starter. However, absent that, he will be cut (and they will take the cap hit) as soon as he is healthy to avoid the guarantee. It's not personal, it's only business.
Another thought...would the 4th best QB in the Draft be better than the 1st or 2nd WR on the Board? Heard this take on Sirius NFL and it kind of makes sense.
Let's say the Giants pass on the 4th best QB or top WRs and wanted to trade down. Could they target a trade with a team that has an outstanding (in their estimation) back up QB (ready to be a starter) and, along with draft choices, include that player in the haul for #6? If that happens, cut DJ when healthy and have an open competition between Lock and the acquired QB?
Just wanted to throw some things against the wall.
You can do the whole ‘F off SFGF! You aren’t a true fan!’ thing, which is fine. But I absolutely no interest in the 2024 Giants if they’re forcing Jones down our throat again. None. I can’t do it anymore with this guy. At least a new QB gives the fan base hope.
You can do the whole ‘F off SFGF! You aren’t a true fan!’ thing, which is fine. But I absolutely no interest in the 2024 Giants if they’re forcing Jones down our throat again. None. I can’t do it anymore with this guy. At least a new QB gives the fan base hope.
Why would anyone root so had for a player on the Giants to fail? You may not like who gets drafted or plays QB but once the season starts you root for the team to be successful.
I’d like to keep Jones, but if we got Wilson I’d root for him to be successful. Or if we draft a QB and Jones still plays, wouldn’t you want him to win?
Like it or not, it doesn’t make much sense for the Giants to cut Jones this season whether we draft a QB or not. We pay him the same either way and the man works his butt off. It would be good for a rookie to see what it takes to play QB from a guy who learned from Eli.
You can do the whole ‘F off SFGF! You aren’t a true fan!’ thing, which is fine. But I absolutely no interest in the 2024 Giants if they’re forcing Jones down our throat again. None. I can’t do it anymore with this guy. At least a new QB gives the fan base hope.
We always have the off-season. As you have said the last few years, NYG are now more interesting in the off-season than the season.
1. Wilson came here for a reason. If it was as simple as DJ is the starter, the visit would have been a waste of everyone's time.
2. The article is not wrong, but somewhat off base by dismissing the remarks of Seahawks general manager. He didn't lie.
3. So what does this tell you? It tells you that any notion of DJ "being the starter" is not such a firm thing.
4. Even if DJ starts out as starter, if DJ cannot unlock the vertical passing game, something he hasn't shown the ability to do since his rookie year, he won't remain in the position for very long. Anyone who attended camp last year knows what kind of offense Daboll intends. We saw glimpses of it with Taylor last year, and it's not underneath dink and dunk.
5. There is a reason Lock was brought it. He may not be the best QB or the long term answer, but we have seen that when they can effectively attack defenses down field, this team can compete. They are going to have that dimension in the passing game this year, one way or another.
You can do the whole ‘F off SFGF! You aren’t a true fan!’ thing, which is fine. But I absolutely no interest in the 2024 Giants if they’re forcing Jones down our throat again. None. I can’t do it anymore with this guy. At least a new QB gives the fan base hope.
Why would anyone root so had for a player on the Giants to fail? You may not like who gets drafted or plays QB but once the season starts you root for the team to be successful.
I’d like to keep Jones, but if we got Wilson I’d root for him to be successful. Or if we draft a QB and Jones still plays, wouldn’t you want him to win?
Like it or not, it doesn’t make much sense for the Giants to cut Jones this season whether we draft a QB or not. We pay him the same either way and the man works his butt off. It would be good for a rookie to see what it takes to play QB from a guy who learned from Eli.
Who said they’re rooting for him to fail?
He’s already failed. The only compliment you have for Jones in that paragraph is that he works hard.
1) Nearly all the "reports" about Jones, regardless of the message, do not seem to be actually sourced. They are either speculation by the writer or weak rumor mill bits that are 3rd hand or worse.
2) The information actually coming from the Giants officially is as expected. It is generic and publicly supporting their high priced QB who is still under contract and not going anywhere this year.
3) None of this information has led me to interpret it with any confidence. What I mean is, I honestly don't have an idea what the Giants plans seem to be and the same stories have been taken to mean completely different QB paths.
4) Along with the prior points, I haven't read anything related to Wilson or Lock that seems to come from a source with actual knowledge of the situations. The most "credible" source is the Seattle GM, and even that seems to be to save face. And obviously Lock himself at his presser. But, even that was the kind of generic responses you expect from a player in his situation.
For some reason... I have a feeling Nix might be an under the radar signing for the G-men. There's so much BS swirling around right now, except on Nix and Penix. I wonder if those two are quietly higher on the Giants radar. Maybe with a trade down. And yes a WR at #6 wouldn't shock me at all either.
Man I just have zero idea what to expect this year. I think the Giants are doing a good job at keeping everyone guessing.
You know, I watched a couple of film breakdowns and interviews with Nix and he seems like more of a possibility than I thought previously. His biggest know really is his age but I think that is overblown.
On your point 4, related to Lock, it's from his own interview, backed back the recording posted online. How could you find anything more credible than that?
Then you said "The most "credible" source is the Seattle GM". How could that 2nd hand source more credible than the 1st hand?
And then you said Lock's response was just "kind of generic responses". Lock has been very clear and specific about the situation, that he was not told to compete for the starter's role. How's that generic response?
1) Nearly all the "reports" about Jones, regardless of the message, do not seem to be actually sourced. They are either speculation by the writer or weak rumor mill bits that are 3rd hand or worse.
2) The information actually coming from the Giants officially is as expected. It is generic and publicly supporting their high priced QB who is still under contract and not going anywhere this year.
3) None of this information has led me to interpret it with any confidence. What I mean is, I honestly don't have an idea what the Giants plans seem to be and the same stories have been taken to mean completely different QB paths.
4) Along with the prior points, I haven't read anything related to Wilson or Lock that seems to come from a source with actual knowledge of the situations. The most "credible" source is the Seattle GM, and even that seems to be to save face. And obviously Lock himself at his presser. But, even that was the kind of generic responses you expect from a player in his situation.
On your point 4, related to Lock, it's from his own interview, backed back the recording posted online. How could you find anything more credible than that?
Then you said "The most "credible" source is the Seattle GM". How could that 2nd hand source more credible than the 1st hand?
And then you said Lock's response was just "kind of generic responses". Lock has been very clear and specific about the situation, that he was not told to compete for the starter's role. How's that generic response?
My bet is that you don't like what you heard.
In comment 16437675 Matt M. said:
Quote:
1) Nearly all the "reports" about Jones, regardless of the message, do not seem to be actually sourced. They are either speculation by the writer or weak rumor mill bits that are 3rd hand or worse.
2) The information actually coming from the Giants officially is as expected. It is generic and publicly supporting their high priced QB who is still under contract and not going anywhere this year.
3) None of this information has led me to interpret it with any confidence. What I mean is, I honestly don't have an idea what the Giants plans seem to be and the same stories have been taken to mean completely different QB paths.
4) Along with the prior points, I haven't read anything related to Wilson or Lock that seems to come from a source with actual knowledge of the situations. The most "credible" source is the Seattle GM, and even that seems to be to save face. And obviously Lock himself at his presser. But, even that was the kind of generic responses you expect from a player in his situation.
It has nothing to do with liking what he said. I said Lock's response was generic because it was exactly what you would expect him to say. Whether it is true or not, there is no way he was going to come in here and say he's competing for the job when Jones has been publicly labeled as the starter. There was nothing wrong with what he said. It is exactly what I expected him to say if he was asked directly.
As for the Seattle GM, I said the most "credible" (including those quotes around it) because I think most people would think a GM's comments were credible if he goes on record. In this particular case, it seemed like he was making stuff up with no knowledge of what went down. So, I don't think what he said had any credibility, but people not close to the situation (i.e fans of other teams, fans not really vested in the Giants or not paying much attention, etc.) see a quote attributed to a GM and think it holds water.
Overall, there is nothing about this move that makes me think
a) the Giants will take a QB, b) the Giants are sticking with Jones, or c) are willing to give Lock a shot. Everything that has been "reported" this off season has been all over the place to the point where I think any of those scenarios are possible or some variations of them. I do think the least likely scenario is c. I think they would be more inclined to stick with Jones than move to Lock. If they are going to move on, I would think it's one of the top 6 QBs in the draft. Even Russell Wilson seemed more likely than Lock starting, and I never really put much weight in that possibility.
RE: Overall, there is nothing about this move that makes me think
OK. I think I misunderstand what you mean by saying "generic". But I do think Lock can easily say some bs (which is very common) like I enjoyed my conversations with the GM and coaches and couldn't wait to start working with them, blah, blah. He doesn't have to lie. It's easier and more approapriate for him to bs, then lie.
If the QB they want is there at 6, they'll take him
No, there were tweets about the QBs. That's why I did a search on the Walter site to confirm. There are articles on Maye visiting too.
The only thing I've found online about Daniels and McCarthy is they met with he Giants at the combine. The only thing I've found anywhere about a QB private visit in NJ was Maye. Where did you see the other two made visits?
No, there were tweets about the QBs. That's why I did a search on the Walter site to confirm. There are articles on Maye visiting too.
The only thing I've found online about Daniels and McCarthy is they met with he Giants at the combine. The only thing I've found anywhere about a QB private visit in NJ was Maye. Where did you see the other two made visits?
Twitter. I don't remember which account(s).
The info blackout is pretty good if we can’t even get intel on site visits.
If the Giants draft a quarterback early on this April, that kid is going to play at some point in 2024 unless Jones is playing very well and/or the Giants are winning. Worry about the day Jones is slogging through a long, hopeless losing season in 2024 when it gets here. That hasn’t happened yet. If the Giants draft a quarterback pretty early, everything changes here sooner rather than later. Jones won’ have a short leash, he will have no leash.
No one is getting fired.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think the Lock signing confirmed this
Well, you are already wrong since Waller retired. lol
Ha! Kinda a “if a tree falls in the forest…” thing.
There's no credible report of Waller retiring.
That explains me not knowing what the hell Johnny5 was talking about. I’m like, I’m pretty sure there would have been an article or post from Eric or something…
Here's why- if you say anyone else besides Jones has a shot at starting you 100% say we are looking for a QB in the draft. Though that could be the sentiment outside already the Giants have maintain the argument that Jones is the guy. You have to keep that belief at least from our side or you are never going to get anyone to deal with you and you will incite any and every one who wants a QB to move up ahead of us.
Jones's days are 100% numbered. It doesn't guarantee a draft pick here but it certainly does guarantee that his time here is like a cab meter it is a countdown clock.
There are several misconception....that become reailty....here...that is just childish.
Here's why- if you say anyone else besides Jones has a shot at starting you 100% say we are looking for a QB in the draft. Though that could be the sentiment outside already the Giants have maintain the argument that Jones is the guy. You have to keep that belief at least from our side or you are never going to get anyone to deal with you and you will incite any and every one who wants a QB to move up ahead of us.
Jones's days are 100% numbered. It doesn't guarantee a draft pick here but it certainly does guarantee that his time here is like a cab meter it is a countdown clock.
isn't like a cab meter, its a countdown clock.
What have the Giants done?
I'm expecting year 10 to be a banner year for Jones. By then we'll have the perfect o-line, perfect wide receivers, and top defense in the NFL.
There are several misconception....that become reailty....here...that is just childish.
The cash may be paid by insurance, but the salary guaranteed in the clause unequivocally counts against the salary cap.
Agreed. It's not like Wilson doesn't have question marks too.
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM)
https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
There are several misconception....that become reailty....here...that is just childish.
Could you explain? I want to understand this injury angle better.
There are several misconception....that become reailty....here...that is just childish.
From Duggan - ( New Window )
Here's why- if you say anyone else besides Jones has a shot at starting you 100% say we are looking for a QB in the draft. Though that could be the sentiment outside already the Giants have maintain the argument that Jones is the guy. You have to keep that belief at least from our side or you are never going to get anyone to deal with you and you will incite any and every one who wants a QB to move up ahead of us.
Jones's days are 100% numbered. It doesn't guarantee a draft pick here but it certainly does guarantee that his time here is like a cab meter it is a countdown clock.
You've pretty much got it I think. The Giants are basically trying to sell a false narrative here. It may actually work in their favor as it leaves the fanbase unsettled and given their history many will think it's true.
I still have my moments of doubt but I tend to believe Jones is finished here.
What have the Giants done?
This.
Yes.
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM) https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
Very good info Eric. Schoen is a big proponent of evaluating guys by getting around them and really getting to know them. While we should not give this organization the benefit of the doubt on anything based on recent history, I have to think they would not be bringing in all of those QBs for visits if they were not serious about drafting one this year. Also, as point of reference, in 2022 3 guys the Giants took came in for Top 30 visits (Kayvon, Neal and Flott), and in 2023 4 guys the Giants took were in their Top 30 (Banks, Hawkins, JMS and Hyatt) along with Payne Durham who the Giants appeared to have been prepared to take if the Bucs did not grab him the pick before.
ouch.
Have Mara the idiot try to entice us back with a medium
Pepsi.
We already are and have been for quite some time. QB sneaks inside the 5 anyone?
It doesn't mean he will be replaced by a draft pick yet but it sure does seem like the replacement will be sought this year if possible and most certainly next year.
Then he gets traded for decent compensation.
In a perfect world he looks good early and gets traded before the deadline for good comp.
If the Giants plan is to not draft a QB and to start Jones until he gets healthy, then the Giants deserve the misery that is ahead.
That is definitively NOT the scenario that scares intelligent Giants fans.
The terrifying scenario is the one where DJ's injury guarantee triggers for 2025 and the Giants are left with a significant cap hit next year for a QB that once again got hurt.
The only thing that makes your scenario remotely frightening is the challenge it presents in replacing DJ a year from now with a potentially lower pick to start with.
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM) https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
Isaac is the only private visit on that list.
Drew Lock - Told he'd compete with Jones to start
I'm sure both these things are true.............
Really? Just think about that. Do you think JS makes moves as if they're bread crumbs so everyone in the media and BBI posters can figure out exactly what will happen with the 6th pick? Wow, just wow!
As Eric said, follow the actions.
Playing very well is something that hasn’t happened in 5 years so nobody is scared
It was also kind of disingenuous. He was obviously better than the QBs they had, provided he could stop drinking and get his life together.
This is how the Giants do business. They don’t publicly displace a starting QB with a guy they’ve brought in this way. They may have intentions of replacing the QB, but they don’t announce those plans.
The Steelers may salvage Wilson but they had to jettison their starter, Kenny Pickett. The Giants aren’t in a position to do the same to Jones unless someone is willing to trade for him and take on his contract.
Drew Lock - Told he'd compete with Jones to start
I'm sure both these things are true.............
So Lock can compete for the starting gig but Wilson can't.
Mixed messages or flat out lies.
For what it's worth, either Big Blue Banter or Talkin' Giants (I can't remember which), said that they had it well sourced that the Giants were almost shocked that Wilson signed with Pittsburgh instead of the Giants. I don't think the Giants would have had that kind of reaction if the opportunity they presented to Wilson was as a backup if Jones is healthy. Also, Mara in particular apparently has a good relationship with Wilson, so it's completely plausible that once that Seattle story broke the Giants reached out to Russ's camp and asked him convey the Giants' company line of Jones being the starter if healthy.
I wouldn’t doubt that to offset the public “Daniel Jones is our starting QB” are behind the scenes comments and “leaks” that the Giants have “buyer’s remorse” and are “done with Daniel Jones”.
Quote:
but is this really news? Would bringing Wilson in as a starter make anyone more confident?
Yes.
Then you obviously havent watched much NFL football outside of the Giants the past 2 years. Look at the financial hit the Broncos just willingly took on just to get Wilson the heck off of their team. He was that bad....not only as a QB but as a teammate and leader. I dont like Jones either, but to assure THIS guy that he would be starting ahead of Jones??? We aint talking about a Mahomes, Burrow or Herbert here....to make an assurance like that to Wilson after his performance the last two years would have been the ultimate dumb move.
Quote:
Russell Wilson - Told Jones was 100% the starter and he would be a back up only
Drew Lock - Told he'd compete with Jones to start
I'm sure both these things are true.............
So Lock can compete for the starting gig but Wilson can't.
Mixed messages or flat out lies.
That is why I posted above that the Giants have not ruled out taking a QB early. Lock has demonstrated that he is comfortable if he is in a back-up role having been behind Geno Smith. The big question about Wilson is would he accept being a bridge QB at this point of his career. So you tell Wilson he is going to be the back-up to see his reaction.
I wouldn’t doubt that to offset the public “Daniel Jones is our starting QB” are behind the scenes comments and “leaks” that the Giants have “buyer’s remorse” and are “done with Daniel Jones”.
The "lying season" part is fair, but I think you have the scenarios reversed with regard to which is smoke and which is fire.
The Giants gain nothing by intentionally leaking that they're done with DJ. All it does is drag DJ through the mud for the very slight chance that they can entice someone to move up in front of them to take a QB, and the result is that they'd have a choice between Odunze and Nabers instead of the leftover of those same two receivers.
Much more likely that the "buyer's remorse" chatter was accurate but never intended to get out to the public, and what has since followed is the smokescreen. Not only is the sequence of those conflicting messages telling (the "it's been conveyed to me that DJ is the starter" came after "buyer's remorse" and John Schneider's reveal about Lock competing for QB1), but it also makes much more logical sense to force the narrative toward being confident in DJ to remain the starter; there's much more benefit to that being misinformation than there is in the Rich Eisen story being the fake info.
If you don't understand things like guarantee triggers (the Broncos were about to face the trigger for Wilson's 2025 salary vesting as guaranteed), I don't think you get to call other fans out for not being aware of league activity.
Quote:
upside with sticking with Daniel Jones as a starter is that he will get to work for his 4th different head coach in 2025.
ouch.
You could say Daniel Jones is the Tom Quinn of quarterbacks.
Actions:
1. Passed on Hodgins ERFA tender
2. Did not sign a legitimate WR to replace Hodgins, only McKenzie who is a gadget/slot/returner
3. Met with all top 3 WR at combine & hosted them on a top 30
4. Signed a QB who can spot start for an injured Jones if need be
5. Scouted Maye and Williams heavily
Words (not directly from Giants)
1. Giants making calls to trade up (due diligence, don’t doubt it considering point 5)
2. Giants want McCarthy
3. Giants are done with Jones
Words (from Giants)
1. Jones is our starter
2. We will sign a veteran QB
My thoughts on all of this: Giants love the consensus top 2 QB prospects from beginning of the year…as do most other teams without a top tier franchise QB. Reality is most of those teams, including Giants, will not have even get a chance to draft either guy. Moving past that, the big need on the team is …WR. This class is strong at WR at the top, and need meets value at 6. The Giants have shown interest in all top guys. They have not made any effort to upgrade the position, while their (arguably) best remaining weapon is contemplating retirement.
It’s easy for people outside of the building to draw the easy like from QB4 to the 4th team in the draft order that could use an upgrade at QB. What those people don’t have any idea is whether the team “likes” the QB. The fact that it is being reported tells me
A. That easy line is being drawn (duh)
B. If the Giants are “telegraphing” their love for McCarthy, it’s for a reason - and that reason has nothing to do with them actually loving McCarthy - and more to do with them hoping the guy they actually want slips (it’s lying season)
I know our asshats have mentioned McCarthy a bit, and they often have very good information on signings etc. FA is a different animal than the draft. FA is a free for all, involves agents, while the draft is a fixed order. The draft is all about deception, and throwing other teams off your potential strategy.. Remember, there are only a few people who control the draft decision - with Schoen being the final decision maker. Because of that, those 3 control everything legitimate that gets out. So if they do put something out there, it’s smoke.. Beyond them, nobody knows - and I doubt Js is leaking his draft board to our asshats or their sources.
Quote:
New York Giants
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM) https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
Isaac is the only private visit on that list.
does that mean something?
I think the Giants are open to Jones being the starter in 2024 if the QBs they like aren't there at 6. The last thing Schoen and Mara want is to be all in on moving on from Jones and getting left at the altar. That would be the disaster scenario for Mara.
There are several misconception....that become reailty....here...that is just childish.
Of course it counts against the cap. The Broncos asked Wilson to waive his last year, and when he refused they benched him. That wasn't done to save on the insurance pay out.
The only non-cap hit would be if Jones had his own injury insurance. But that is not what is being talked about here. It is the injury clause in his contract with the Giants.
Quote:
In comment 16437324 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
New York Giants
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM) https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
Isaac is the only private visit on that list.
does that mean something?
It means those aren't private visits in NJ. Those COM visits were all visits at the combine. They aren't part of the 30 private visits each team is allowed (plus local players).
All smoke. Daniel Jones is not long for this team.
What have the Giants done?
While I agree, I still also look at our actions in 2018 and we went RB. I mean we had the Maras dining with all these QBs and Tisch flying in. So Im still not shutting the door on the possibility that its not gonna happen.
In comment 16437418 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
follow the actions, not the words. What good would it do the Giants to telegraph to the world they're taking QB? Also as Eric pointed out here, look at the 30 visits. Going off the last two drafts, it's a good barometer of what the Giants are looking to do, and there's already 3 of the top QB's listed in those visits.
Actions:
1. Passed on Hodgins ERFA tender
2. Did not sign a legitimate WR to replace Hodgins, only McKenzie who is a gadget/slot/returner
3. Met with all top 3 WR at combine & hosted them on a top 30
4. Signed a QB who can spot start for an injured Jones if need be
5. Scouted Maye and Williams heavily
Words (not directly from Giants)
1. Giants making calls to trade up (due diligence, don’t doubt it considering point 5)
2. Giants want McCarthy
3. Giants are done with Jones
Words (from Giants)
1. Jones is our starter
2. We will sign a veteran QB
My thoughts on all of this: Giants love the consensus top 2 QB prospects from beginning of the year…as do most other teams without a top tier franchise QB. Reality is most of those teams, including Giants, will not have even get a chance to draft either guy. Moving past that, the big need on the team is …WR. This class is strong at WR at the top, and need meets value at 6. The Giants have shown interest in all top guys. They have not made any effort to upgrade the position, while their (arguably) best remaining weapon is contemplating retirement.
It’s easy for people outside of the building to draw the easy like from QB4 to the 4th team in the draft order that could use an upgrade at QB. What those people don’t have any idea is whether the team “likes” the QB. The fact that it is being reported tells me
A. That easy line is being drawn (duh)
B. If the Giants are “telegraphing” their love for McCarthy, it’s for a reason - and that reason has nothing to do with them actually loving McCarthy - and more to do with them hoping the guy they actually want slips (it’s lying season)
I know our asshats have mentioned McCarthy a bit, and they often have very good information on signings etc. FA is a different animal than the draft. FA is a free for all, involves agents, while the draft is a fixed order. The draft is all about deception, and throwing other teams off your potential strategy.. Remember, there are only a few people who control the draft decision - with Schoen being the final decision maker. Because of that, those 3 control everything legitimate that gets out. So if they do put something out there, it’s smoke.. Beyond them, nobody knows - and I doubt Js is leaking his draft board to our asshats or their sources.
Drew Lock - Told he'd compete with Jones to start
I'm sure both these things are true.............
Ha. Precisely.
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM) https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
BTW, I'm pretty sure Marvin Harrison, Jr. was a 30 visit too.
30 visits are a valuable commodity. It's clear along with WRs, they are looking at the QBs at the top of the draft.
1) Despite their best efforts, the Giants are not in a position to draft his immediate replacement
2) The Giants still believe in Jones, and because of their best efforts four quarterbacks are drafted before them
Quote:
follow the actions, not the words. What good would it do the Giants to telegraph to the world they're taking QB? Also as Eric pointed out here, look at the 30 visits. Going off the last two drafts, it's a good barometer of what the Giants are looking to do, and there's already 3 of the top QB's listed in those visits.
Actions:
1. Passed on Hodgins ERFA tender
2. Did not sign a legitimate WR to replace Hodgins, only McKenzie who is a gadget/slot/returner
3. Met with all top 3 WR at combine & hosted them on a top 30
4. Signed a QB who can spot start for an injured Jones if need be
5. Scouted Maye and Williams heavily
Words (not directly from Giants)
1. Giants making calls to trade up (due diligence, don’t doubt it considering point 5)
2. Giants want McCarthy
3. Giants are done with Jones
Words (from Giants)
1. Jones is our starter
2. We will sign a veteran QB
You left out everything from the actions that goes against your narrative.
Bringing in Wilson
Letting Saqoun walk
Interest in Winston
Trade for Burns
Unless things change drastically, DJ will be the starter and a WR will be taken at 6
Agree . If he is starting FA and draft are now meaningless. WR at 6 is totally meaningless. He is incompetent. If he had Jerry Rice and Randy Moss in their prime Giants offense would still be bottom three .
We still have 5 more years to figure out if Jones is good or not, so we may get into HC 5 or 6.
Yes. This is why I'm dreading draft night.
Quote:
New York Giants
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM) https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
BTW, I'm pretty sure Marvin Harrison, Jr. was a 30 visit too.
30 visits are a valuable commodity. It's clear along with WRs, they are looking at the QBs at the top of the draft.
So far the only 30 visits I've seen confirmed (as of 6 days ago) were the three top receivers, Maye and Isaac. Unconfirmed but rumored were Alt and Turner. NFL Trade Rumors said UTEP LB Tyreke Knight had a visit scheduled, along with Washington State CB Chau Smith-Wade. I'm sure there have been some more.
But that Walter list is not 30 visits, it's all contacts from the Senior Bowl through the private 30 visits. The good news is it's obvious the Giants have met with a lot more players than that in that time, but they seem to be keeping them quiet.
The pick at 6 is for 2025. It needs to be about pivot, hope, reset forward.
I'm also terrified that they move heaven and earth to draft JJ and he sucks. This franchise has really broken my spirit. It's one thing to have a bad decade+, it's another thing to just be laughably, totally, and woefully incompetent. The Giants have been in Knicks territory for a while now. (And now the Knicks have finally turned it around!)
The only thing I've found online about Daniels and McCarthy is they met with he Giants at the combine. The only thing I've found anywhere about a QB private visit in NJ was Maye. Where did you see the other two made visits?
Man I just have zero idea what to expect this year. I think the Giants are doing a good job at keeping everyone guessing.
Same. Hard pass.
I look at it like this: I hope they get a good QB but acts of desperation rarely pay out in the end. The team isn't going to win a SB next year regardless but has an opportunity to make themselves significantly better. If the future of the position doesn't happen this year, that's unfortunate, but the team can still move the arrow significantly in the right direction. I'm not going to throw a fit about it.
Yes it would- Wilson is a better quarterback.
I can't stomach another Daniel Jones season. Please move on. He wouldn't start for other nfl team.
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In comment 16437354 bigblue5611 said:
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follow the actions, not the words. What good would it do the Giants to telegraph to the world they're taking QB? Also as Eric pointed out here, look at the 30 visits. Going off the last two drafts, it's a good barometer of what the Giants are looking to do, and there's already 3 of the top QB's listed in those visits.
Actions:
1. Passed on Hodgins ERFA tender
2. Did not sign a legitimate WR to replace Hodgins, only McKenzie who is a gadget/slot/returner
3. Met with all top 3 WR at combine & hosted them on a top 30
4. Signed a QB who can spot start for an injured Jones if need be
5. Scouted Maye and Williams heavily
Words (not directly from Giants)
1. Giants making calls to trade up (due diligence, don’t doubt it considering point 5)
2. Giants want McCarthy
3. Giants are done with Jones
Words (from Giants)
1. Jones is our starter
2. We will sign a veteran QB
You left out everything from the actions that goes against your narrative.
Bringing in Wilson
Letting Saqoun walk
Interest in Winston
Trade for Burns
Wilson: That would actually further support the narrative, since he was told Jones is the starter. The wanted a backup for Jones. I really don’t think Wilson’s camp has anything to gain from putting out misinformation about the Giants at this point in their process.
Barkley: doesn’t mean much to me, besides them not wanting to pay a RB going into year 7. If anything, they lost their best weapon and need a new go-to guy amongst skill group.
Winston: He’s in same category as Lock, who I mentioned in the post. The Giants ended up with Lock. JW signed a similar deal but with more incentives. Perhaps Cle offered more financial upside and he chose there, or perhaps he liked the landing spot more…or maybe Giants liked Lock at his price more.
Burns: I really see no parallel, other than getting a very good, young player at a premium position for a 2nd round pick. They saved on not retaining Barkley & McKinney - probably with the intent of upgrading pass rush and OL. If your point is that the Giants are getting ready for a rookie QB contract, I think you are reading too much into the cap methodology that podcasters spread around the internet. The Giants can pay Jones and Burns next year and beyond with little to no issue, if Jones plays well enough remains here. I imagine a restructure is not out of the picture - where Jones takes a paycut to remain in 2025. If he flat out stinks this year, they will likely move on and be in position to draft (or acquire) a new QB in 2025.
Jayden Daniels, Quarterback, LSU (COM)
Jaylan Ford, Outside Linebacker, Texas (COM)
Jaden Hicks, Safety, Washington State (COM)
Adisa Isaac^, Defensive End, Penn State (COM, PRI)
Drake Maye, Quarterback, North Carolina (COM)
J.J. McCarthy, Quarterback, Michigan (COM)
Malik Nabers, Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)
Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)
Rome Odunze, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)
Brenden Rice, Wide Receiver, USC (COM) https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetingsByTeam2024.php - ( New Window )
Interesting list. Didn't the Giants have all 3 WRs in NJ for a visit and not just a meeting at the combine (COM)?
But, it's obvious the faith in DJ is wavering, so no matter what they tell/told Wilson and Lock, a strong showing by Lock (and/or Wilson if they had signed him) in camp puts DJ's starting days in jeopardy.
And it is obvious that Giants want to draft a QB. Being in a tough spot in the QB draft order, and with a line in the sand regarding how much they're willing to trade up, we may not end up drafting an obvious QB replacement for Jones.
They want to replace DJ. If they thought Wilson was that replacement, they would have been more aggressive in signing him.
Another thought...would the 4th best QB in the Draft be better than the 1st or 2nd WR on the Board? Heard this take on Sirius NFL and it kind of makes sense.
Let's say the Giants pass on the 4th best QB or top WRs and wanted to trade down. Could they target a trade with a team that has an outstanding (in their estimation) back up QB (ready to be a starter) and, along with draft choices, include that player in the haul for #6? If that happens, cut DJ when healthy and have an open competition between Lock and the acquired QB?
Just wanted to throw some things against the wall.
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You can do the whole ‘F off SFGF! You aren’t a true fan!’ thing, which is fine. But I absolutely no interest in the 2024 Giants if they’re forcing Jones down our throat again. None. I can’t do it anymore with this guy. At least a new QB gives the fan base hope.
Same. Hard pass.
Me too.
Why would anyone root so had for a player on the Giants to fail? You may not like who gets drafted or plays QB but once the season starts you root for the team to be successful.
I’d like to keep Jones, but if we got Wilson I’d root for him to be successful. Or if we draft a QB and Jones still plays, wouldn’t you want him to win?
Like it or not, it doesn’t make much sense for the Giants to cut Jones this season whether we draft a QB or not. We pay him the same either way and the man works his butt off. It would be good for a rookie to see what it takes to play QB from a guy who learned from Eli.
We always have the off-season. As you have said the last few years, NYG are now more interesting in the off-season than the season.
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WR at 6 more than likely.
Unless things change drastically, DJ will be the starter and a WR will be taken at 6
Looking forward to the Giants drafting a WR at #6 and watching Jones throw checkdown passes at Waller’s hamstrings.
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In comment 16437309 Chip said:
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WR at 6 more than likely.
Unless things change drastically, DJ will be the starter and a WR will be taken at 6
Looking forward to the Giants drafting a WR at #6 and watching Jones throw checkdown passes at Waller’s hamstrings.
November 2024, certain BBI posters: "ugh I can't believe we wasted the number 6 pick on this wr! Bust!"
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In comment 16437309 Chip said:
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WR at 6 more than likely.
Unless things change drastically, DJ will be the starter and a WR will be taken at 6
Looking forward to the Giants drafting a WR at #6 and watching Jones throw checkdown passes at Waller’s hamstrings.
Well, you are already wrong since Waller retired. lol
2. The article is not wrong, but somewhat off base by dismissing the remarks of Seahawks general manager. He didn't lie.
3. So what does this tell you? It tells you that any notion of DJ "being the starter" is not such a firm thing.
4. Even if DJ starts out as starter, if DJ cannot unlock the vertical passing game, something he hasn't shown the ability to do since his rookie year, he won't remain in the position for very long. Anyone who attended camp last year knows what kind of offense Daboll intends. We saw glimpses of it with Taylor last year, and it's not underneath dink and dunk.
5. There is a reason Lock was brought it. He may not be the best QB or the long term answer, but we have seen that when they can effectively attack defenses down field, this team can compete. They are going to have that dimension in the passing game this year, one way or another.
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You can do the whole ‘F off SFGF! You aren’t a true fan!’ thing, which is fine. But I absolutely no interest in the 2024 Giants if they’re forcing Jones down our throat again. None. I can’t do it anymore with this guy. At least a new QB gives the fan base hope.
Why would anyone root so had for a player on the Giants to fail? You may not like who gets drafted or plays QB but once the season starts you root for the team to be successful.
I’d like to keep Jones, but if we got Wilson I’d root for him to be successful. Or if we draft a QB and Jones still plays, wouldn’t you want him to win?
Like it or not, it doesn’t make much sense for the Giants to cut Jones this season whether we draft a QB or not. We pay him the same either way and the man works his butt off. It would be good for a rookie to see what it takes to play QB from a guy who learned from Eli.
Who said they’re rooting for him to fail?
He’s already failed. The only compliment you have for Jones in that paragraph is that he works hard.
2) The information actually coming from the Giants officially is as expected. It is generic and publicly supporting their high priced QB who is still under contract and not going anywhere this year.
3) None of this information has led me to interpret it with any confidence. What I mean is, I honestly don't have an idea what the Giants plans seem to be and the same stories have been taken to mean completely different QB paths.
4) Along with the prior points, I haven't read anything related to Wilson or Lock that seems to come from a source with actual knowledge of the situations. The most "credible" source is the Seattle GM, and even that seems to be to save face. And obviously Lock himself at his presser. But, even that was the kind of generic responses you expect from a player in his situation.
Man I just have zero idea what to expect this year. I think the Giants are doing a good job at keeping everyone guessing.
You know, I watched a couple of film breakdowns and interviews with Nix and he seems like more of a possibility than I thought previously. His biggest know really is his age but I think that is overblown.
Then you said "The most "credible" source is the Seattle GM". How could that 2nd hand source more credible than the 1st hand?
And then you said Lock's response was just "kind of generic responses". Lock has been very clear and specific about the situation, that he was not told to compete for the starter's role. How's that generic response?
My bet is that you don't like what you heard.
In comment 16437675 Matt M. said:
2) The information actually coming from the Giants officially is as expected. It is generic and publicly supporting their high priced QB who is still under contract and not going anywhere this year.
3) None of this information has led me to interpret it with any confidence. What I mean is, I honestly don't have an idea what the Giants plans seem to be and the same stories have been taken to mean completely different QB paths.
4) Along with the prior points, I haven't read anything related to Wilson or Lock that seems to come from a source with actual knowledge of the situations. The most "credible" source is the Seattle GM, and even that seems to be to save face. And obviously Lock himself at his presser. But, even that was the kind of generic responses you expect from a player in his situation.
Then you said "The most "credible" source is the Seattle GM". How could that 2nd hand source more credible than the 1st hand?
And then you said Lock's response was just "kind of generic responses". Lock has been very clear and specific about the situation, that he was not told to compete for the starter's role. How's that generic response?
My bet is that you don't like what you heard.
In comment 16437675 Matt M. said:
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1) Nearly all the "reports" about Jones, regardless of the message, do not seem to be actually sourced. They are either speculation by the writer or weak rumor mill bits that are 3rd hand or worse.
2) The information actually coming from the Giants officially is as expected. It is generic and publicly supporting their high priced QB who is still under contract and not going anywhere this year.
3) None of this information has led me to interpret it with any confidence. What I mean is, I honestly don't have an idea what the Giants plans seem to be and the same stories have been taken to mean completely different QB paths.
4) Along with the prior points, I haven't read anything related to Wilson or Lock that seems to come from a source with actual knowledge of the situations. The most "credible" source is the Seattle GM, and even that seems to be to save face. And obviously Lock himself at his presser. But, even that was the kind of generic responses you expect from a player in his situation.
As for the Seattle GM, I said the most "credible" (including those quotes around it) because I think most people would think a GM's comments were credible if he goes on record. In this particular case, it seemed like he was making stuff up with no knowledge of what went down. So, I don't think what he said had any credibility, but people not close to the situation (i.e fans of other teams, fans not really vested in the Giants or not paying much attention, etc.) see a quote attributed to a GM and think it holds water.
But until then it's smart to not make promises to other QBs or tip their hand Savoy what they want in the draft.
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No, there were tweets about the QBs. That's why I did a search on the Walter site to confirm. There are articles on Maye visiting too.
The only thing I've found online about Daniels and McCarthy is they met with he Giants at the combine. The only thing I've found anywhere about a QB private visit in NJ was Maye. Where did you see the other two made visits?
Twitter. I don't remember which account(s).
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In comment 16437493 Eric from BBI said:
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No, there were tweets about the QBs. That's why I did a search on the Walter site to confirm. There are articles on Maye visiting too.
The only thing I've found online about Daniels and McCarthy is they met with he Giants at the combine. The only thing I've found anywhere about a QB private visit in NJ was Maye. Where did you see the other two made visits?
Twitter. I don't remember which account(s).
The info blackout is pretty good if we can’t even get intel on site visits.
I swear some of you have never experienced an off-season before
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In comment 16437461 Sec 103 said:
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In comment 16437309 Chip said:
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WR at 6 more than likely.
Unless things change drastically, DJ will be the starter and a WR will be taken at 6
Looking forward to the Giants drafting a WR at #6 and watching Jones throw checkdown passes at Waller’s hamstrings.
Well, you are already wrong since Waller retired. lol
Ha! Kinda a “if a tree falls in the forest…” thing.
Well, you are already wrong since Waller retired. lol
Ha! Kinda a “if a tree falls in the forest…” thing.
There's no credible report of Waller retiring.
No one is getting fired.
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In comment 16437645 Johnny5 said:
Well, you are already wrong since Waller retired. lol
Ha! Kinda a “if a tree falls in the forest…” thing.
There's no credible report of Waller retiring.
That explains me not knowing what the hell Johnny5 was talking about. I’m like, I’m pretty sure there would have been an article or post from Eric or something…