Vacchiano: Giants have spoken with one about moving down

but I do buy us trading down if our guy is gone. Doesn’t mean we won’t pick a QB either.

In the NFL can see he’s not the answer. I’ve literally never seen a player get so much leash with so many excuses. This is year six. Enough already. Move on already!!!! No one had perfect conditions in the NFL. Ever.

Vacchiano doesn't think DeVito is part of the plan and they'll draft QB within the first three rounds.

IMO

We’re moving on. You’re not the one and we don’t really love you or trust you even if you say we do.

I’d also love to know the higher ups Vacchiano refers to. No doubt it’s someone real but I doubt it’s Schoen or Daboll who weren’t involved whatsoever with the drafting fetish of the next “Eli”.

shit they are preapring the fans for not taking a QB....

shit.

But not so concerned by what you pasted in the thread.

It makes sense to me the Giants would play the injury card, it’s also not just a “card” it’s a very legitimate concern.

If Schoen wants a second chance here, his job this offseason would be to convince Mara that even though he “believes” in Jones, the injuries make it too risky not to heavily invest in another QB.

Again, NYG has to sell a false narrative here if they don’t want to be taken to the cleaners on a potential move or jumped by another team in the process.

for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft.

"We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!"

They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year.

this is legit.

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year.

That's how I read it.

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year.

its because of the vikings trade....
they are no longer confident they can get one of the top 4 Qbs.

In comment 16438259 bigbluewillrise said:

Quote:

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said: Quote: for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year. its because of the vikings trade.... they are no longer confident they can get one of the top 4 Qbs.

Take a chill pill. There is no trade yet by any team.

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year.

Yup

I sure hope the usual loose lipped suspect at Jints Central isn't floating concerns about Jones's neck. That's a grievance in the making.

dont they?

You cant force a pick at QB if their guys are off the board

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year.

As Eric as intimated. Good luck with that. They’re in deep shit sooner or later then in terms of having a future here. I suspect they know it.

made a horrible error with the Jones contract. If he can't start fixing that this year by getting a solution he is starting the clock on his GM career ending.

If you can;t get the QB problem figured out you won't be here very long.

Doesn’t that only hurt us if we’re set on Maye?

In this scenario you’d still have to think the Cards go MHjr and at worst we have to get to 5 for McCarthy but I’d doubt Harbaugh is moving away from 5.

In comment 16438242 crooza172 said:

Quote:

In the NFL can see he’s not the answer. I’ve literally never seen a player get so much leash with so many excuses. This is year six. Enough already. Move on already!!!! No one had perfect conditions in the NFL. Ever.

Agree with the sentiment but comparing possibly the worst oline play in history combinedd with low end skill players to needing ‘perfect conditions’ is ridiculous. If he had merely ‘bad conditions’ (like 2022) it would be a massive upgrade and a lot easier to put an end to all this.

I'd be surprised if 11 and 23 gets Minnesota the 3rd overall pick.

I expect the Patriots to pick a QB and the Vikings to acquire the 5th overall from San Diego.

I think the top 5 goes:

- Williams
- Maye
- Daniels
- MHJ
- JJM

In comment 16438277 Chris684 said:

Quote:

Doesn’t that only hurt us if we’re set on Maye? In this scenario you’d still have to think the Cards go MHjr and at worst we have to get to 5 for McCarthy but I’d doubt Harbaugh is moving away from 5.

The Vikings trading up to 3 is preferable. But, if 3 is for sale, the Giants should have a chance too.

I do think if McCarthy is at 6, the Giants take him.

Yep.

In comment 16438279 christian said:

Quote:

I'd be surprised if 11 and 23 gets Minnesota the 3rd overall pick. I expect the Patriots to pick a QB and the Vikings to acquire the 5th overall from San Diego. I think the top 5 goes: - Williams - Maye - Daniels - MHJ - JJM

This feels right.

Around here since the Minnesota trade. Not sure if it’s just that or if some “asshats” have been hearing anything specific regarding our attempts to move up.

.

Are a bigger threat to take McCarthy if they sit there than Maye.

In comment 16438279 christian said:

Quote:

I'd be surprised if 11 and 23 gets Minnesota the 3rd overall pick. I expect the Patriots to pick a QB and the Vikings to acquire the 5th overall from San Diego. I think the top 5 goes: - Williams - Maye - Daniels - MHJ - JJM

I still think it would be preferable to trade down a spot with all the WRs which would be on the board. LAC could trade down twice.

If NYG likes McCarthy enough, there's no reason they shouldn't get him. That 6th pick with 4 QBs ahead of it is very valuable.

if the team that got Jones his over-priced contract is the same team that moves ahead of us in the draft to take the QB we should take to replace Jones.

Minnesota.

In comment 16438288 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 16438279 christian said: Quote: I'd be surprised if 11 and 23 gets Minnesota the 3rd overall pick. I expect the Patriots to pick a QB and the Vikings to acquire the 5th overall from San Diego. I think the top 5 goes: - Williams - Maye - Daniels - MHJ - JJM I still think it would be preferable to trade down a spot with all the WRs which would be on the board. LAC could trade down twice. If NYG likes McCarthy enough, there's no reason they shouldn't get him. That 6th pick with 4 QBs ahead of it is very valuable.

If Minnesota settles into the 5th pick then you have to call Arizona and see if they prefer MHjr at 4 or if they’re willing to see if they can get him, Nabers or Odunze at 6 with extra draft picks from us.

The Patriots need a quarterback, they have the 3rd overall pick in a 4 quarterback draft, and a first-time GM.

Wolf would be a fool to trade out unless he gets an absolute bounty.

The situation is superceding the value chart this time.

especially with the ammo Minnesota has now to move up. Caleb is going to Chicago, and Washington and New England are desperate for QBs, I just can’t see either of them trading down from their spots. And Minnesota has more to offer to move up to 4 or 5 now that they have two first round picks than the Giants do.

But, I do see ARI potentially trading out. Cowden & Ossenfort worked together in TEN. Arizona would only be dropping 2 spots and will still get a blue chip WR. NYG gets McCarthy.

In comment 16438269 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

made a horrible error with the Jones contract. If he can't start fixing that this year by getting a solution he is starting the clock on his GM career ending. If you can;t get the QB problem figured out you won't be here very long.

Schoen ain’t going nowhere

fans either want to get rid of jones or they want to keep him, nothing they say can change the opinions of the former especially.

In comment 16438297 christian said:

Quote:

The Patriots need a quarterback, they have the 3rd overall pick in a 4 quarterback draft, and a first-time GM. Wolf would be a fool to trade out unless he gets an absolute bounty. The situation is superceding the value chart this time.

If Wolf likes Nix and receives an offer he can't refuse, but still puts him in a position to secure Nix, it's a huge win-win.

In comment 16438298 nyjuggernaut2 said:

Quote:

especially with the ammo Minnesota has now to move up. Caleb is going to Chicago, and Washington and New England are desperate for QBs, I just can’t see either of them trading down from their spots. And Minnesota has more to offer to move up to 4 or 5 now that they have two first round picks than the Giants do.

The thing is, we could always add ammo by throwing in KT instead of a pick.

BW, I think that would have to be from NYG. 11 leaves too much risk to get jumped.

Great players and we really need WR.

In comment 16438297 christian said:

Quote:

The Patriots need a quarterback, they have the 3rd overall pick in a 4 quarterback draft, and a first-time GM. Wolf would be a fool to trade out unless he gets an absolute bounty. The situation is superceding the value chart this time.

I think the trade would be for a lot more than 11 and 23. Try 11, 23 their 3rd and a 2025 1st.

BB46 I'm not even sure that's worth missing out on a QB.

so that they don't have to bad mouth him. He seems like a likeable guy who is definitely hard working. Maybe they don't want to tell people that they have lost confidence in his ability and the injury excuse is convenient.

In comment 16438308 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

fans either want to get rid of jones or they want to keep him, nothing they say can change the opinions of the former especially.

Nobody said it would be successful spin

In comment 16438328 christian said:

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BB46 I'm not even sure that's worth missing out on a QB.

It's too rich for my blood, but I think that's what they would give the Pats. To match it we would have to offer pick 6, 47 2025 1st and 2nd.

I still have a strong hunch and gut feeling the Vikings are making this trade with the Patriots if Daniels isn't there and if Wolf played his hands right it could be amazing for the Patriots.

But, I'd do it if needed. It would be frustrating because NYG finally is building a strength on the DL.

In comment 16438330 BestFeature said:

Quote:

so that they don't have to bad mouth him. He seems like a likeable guy who is definitely hard working. Maybe they don't want to tell people that they have lost confidence in his ability and the injury excuse is convenient.

Yes I think this is spin to lay a foundation for taking a QB and preparing fans. Obviously they have explored all trade options both up and down. The fact that they added the injury concern part is the spin imo. I don't think this is them preparing us to miss on a qb, I think this is them putting spin out there to prepare fans for a new qb while not bad mouthing DJ.

I read this article as messaging that "Yes we are moving on from Daniel Jones but not because he stinks and we screwed up or evaluation of him in giving him the second contract. Rather, we are only moving on because of his injuries." That's clearly the company line. Papa and Banks touched on it in their podcast as well and conceded that Jones may be just too damaged physically and mentally to be the guy. I read this article as messaging that the team is moving on from Jones because of injuries, is definitely bringing in a rookie QB, and the QB they bring in probably won't be ready to play Week 1 so the fans should get used to Jones playing at least initially this year. This last point tracks with what we've heard about them being potentially being high on Maye and McCarthy -- two guys that most people think will have to sit in the beginning.

Williams - Chi
Maye - DC
Daniels - NE
MHJ - AZ
JJM - MN

That's my guess.

In comment 16438337 KennyHill48 said:

Quote:

I read this article as messaging that "Yes we are moving on from Daniel Jones but not because he stinks and we screwed up or evaluation of him in giving him the second contract. Rather, we are only moving on because of his injuries." That's clearly the company line. Papa and Banks touched on it in their podcast as well and conceded that Jones may be just too damaged physically and mentally to be the guy. I read this article as messaging that the team is moving on from Jones because of injuries, is definitely bringing in a rookie QB, and the QB they bring in probably won't be ready to play Week 1 so the fans should get used to Jones playing at least initially this year. This last point tracks with what we've heard about them being potentially being high on Maye and McCarthy -- two guys that most people think will have to sit in the beginning.

I agree. If it was spin for the opposite then they wouldn't add the injury concern part. It would just be about exploring trade downs and still believing in DJ imo

BS. Let’s send out a puff piece and see how the fans react.

In comment 16438340 christian said:

Quote:

Williams - Chi Maye - DC Daniels - NE MHJ - AZ JJM - MN That's my guess.

Which QB do you think NYG drafts?

Schoen has a 23M incentive to not float injury history as a reason. The only idiot on the staff dumb enough to do so is family.

In comment 16438343 Silver Spoon said:

Quote:

BS. Let’s send out a puff piece and see how the fans react.

So just out of curiosity how is Mara measuring the fan reaction here? Does he have BBI moles who report back to him? This is a little far fetched, no?

It seems clear that any engagement the team has with its fans on social media, it’s overwhelmingly obvious this fanbase wants to move on from Jones, and rightly so.

In comment 16438344 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 16438340 christian said: Quote: Williams - Chi Maye - DC Daniels - NE MHJ - AZ JJM - MN That's my guess. Which QB do you think NYG drafts?

Penix or Rattler

Living up in Boston I listen to a lot of New England sports radio to try and get an idea of what the Patriots will do.

The fans are killing them for not spending on free agents at all.

There is talk that the Patriots need so much that they may trade down to start to rebuild the team from the ground up and that they may want a stronger team before they bring in their QB.

There is a lot of talk of the ownership being very involved. There is some discussion of the ownership and the GM having some differ. Thoughts on what direction to go.

I'd be good with that.

may well be laying the groundwork for why they couldn't acquire a QB at #6, but Schoen isn't to blame if that happens IMO. As I've said, I don't want to trade up for any of these QBs, except maybe to #5. But it's becoming clear that Schoen did try and move up but was rebuffed. He also can't control what Minnesota or any other team does. If the Vikings want to offer a historic haul of draft picks to move into the five, there is nothing Schoen can or should do in response.

I'd be stunned and upset if Schoen traded KT. He just drafted him with the #5 pick two years ago. The whole point of the Burns trade was to get a second edge rusher. Trading KT defeats that purpose. KT, Lawrence, and Thomas are untouchable.

Quote:

As bad as Jones was in the first five games of last season, there are a lot of people very high up in the Giants organization who still believe in his ability — which is what FOX Sports reported back in November.

Ralph had a quote in that November story that, no doubt in my mind, came from John Mara himself.

There is a distinctive way JM presumes to speak for the whole org (the royal prerogative) and it came through in that quote.

In comment 16438340 christian said:

Quote:

Williams - Chi Maye - DC Daniels - NE MHJ - AZ JJM - MN That's my guess.

Here's mine:

DC: CW
CHI: JD
Min: DM
AZ: MHJ
LA: Odunze
NYG: JJM

sentiments about Jones also confirm what I and others have been saying about him, namely that whatever you think about his performance, his injury history means he can't be the long-term answer for the Giants at QB. His need to run to be successful means there is a high likelihood that he will suffer another concussion or neck injury.

When it does, it's the God's honest truth.

The above report is exactly what I've been saying all along. It makes sense and it's what has always made sense (compared to the narrative that Schoen & Daboll did a 180 on Jones's talent just a handful of games after backing up the Brinks truck).

p.s.--Some of you must be wondering: if we can't trust them to properly evaluate a QB that they see in practice week in and week out for a year, how can we trust them to pick a QB prospect in the draft? But I guess that's where the part in the narrative about the meddling owner comes in.

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year.

And if there's no way forward this year why not work on positioning yourself for the following year?

moving up and moving down discussions is just Schoen doing his due diligence. That's what he should do as a GM.

Can essentially confirm firsthand what others in this thread and elsewhere have said -- ownership has largely given up the ghost on DJ as the longterm answer....but solely because of injuries. The person I know still waxes poetic about DJ the person and even his onfield performance. It's disturbing to me that such mediocrity is not only tolerated but celebrated. That's all the info I have on everything at moment, limited as it is. Hoping to get more soon.

Also, this part I don't have any source attached to, just my sneaking suspicion. But we are NOT talking enough about Bo Nix and Penix as second round / trade up candidates. McCarthy debate has overshadowed this topic too much.

In comment 16438372 j_rud said:

Quote:

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said: Quote: for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year. And if there's no way forward this year why not work on positioning yourself for the following year?

Because they have a fan base that wants to know what is being done for the 2024 season. Outside a small handful of kool aid drinkers, nobody believes Daniel Jones can be anything other than a passenger on this team.

In comment 16438368 Milton said:

Quote:

When it does, it's the God's honest truth. The above report is exactly what I've been saying all along. It makes sense and it's what has always made sense (compared to the narrative that Schoen & Daboll did a 180 on Jones's talent just a handful of games after backing up the Brinks truck). p.s.--Some of you must be wondering: if we can't trust them to properly evaluate a QB that they see in practice week in and week out for a year, how can we trust them to pick a QB prospect in the draft? But I guess that's where the part in the narrative about the meddling owner comes in.

Teach us more Mr. Wizard, please?

In comment 16438358 AcidTest said:

Quote:

I'd be stunned and upset if Schoen traded KT. He just drafted him with the #5 pick two years ago. The whole point of the Burns trade was to get a second edge rusher. Trading KT defeats that purpose. KT, Lawrence, and Thomas are untouchable.

I'm on the other end here. Everyone is expendable on this team to secure a player who becomes the franchise QB. I would take that risk any day and twice on Sunday.

Because without that QB piece, we're just a team with some nice parts watching the SB with thirty other teams.

In comment 16438381 gameday555 said:

Quote:

Can essentially confirm firsthand what others in this thread and elsewhere have said -- ownership has largely given up the ghost on DJ as the longterm answer....but solely because of injuries. The person I know still waxes poetic about DJ the person and even his onfield performance. It's disturbing to me that such mediocrity is not only tolerated but celebrated. That's all the info I have on everything at moment, limited as it is. Hoping to get more soon. Also, this part I don't have any source attached to, just my sneaking suspicion. But we are NOT talking enough about Bo Nix and Penix as second round / trade up candidates. McCarthy debate has overshadowed this topic too much.

Great, but I'll believe it when I see it (regarding DJ). Till then I'm expecting the worst. But I do like your bit about Nix and Penix. For all we know, Schoen has one of them rated higher than QB4 (JJ) right now.

If we're willing to trade him to get the QB, why would somebody be willing to trade the QB to get him?

The million dollar question, to me, is why Penix and Nix are viewed as so separate from these supposed top four prospects.

I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix.

Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3.

Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why.

In comment 16438400 Go Terps said:

Quote:

If we're willing to trade him to get the QB, why would somebody be willing to trade the QB to get him? The million dollar question, to me, is why Penix and Nix are viewed as so separate from these supposed top four prospects. I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix. Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why.

I think the concern with Penix is the substantial injury history. If he had clean medicals he'd probably be in the running for top overall pick.

I don't see the Giants replacing an injury prone QB with another injury prone QB. Nix seems conceivable to me, although he doesn't really match the archetype QB Schoen and Daboll seem to prefer.

If minny covets JJ and are willing to move up to 3, 4, or 5, why can’t we? Last I checked 6 is better than 11 and 23. As is our 1st next year as we probably suck balls in 2024.

In comment 16438405 The_Boss said:

Quote:

If minny covets JJ and are willing to move up to 3, 4, or 5, why can’t we? Last I checked 6 is better than 11 and 23. As is our 1st next year as we probably suck balls in 2024.

This exactly. The 6th pick with 4 QBs going already is very valuable.

In comment 16438403 LW_Giants said:

Quote:

In comment 16438400 Go Terps said: Quote: If we're willing to trade him to get the QB, why would somebody be willing to trade the QB to get him? The million dollar question, to me, is why Penix and Nix are viewed as so separate from these supposed top four prospects. I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix. Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why. I think the concern with Penix is the substantial injury history. If he had clean medicals he'd probably be in the running for top overall pick. I don't see the Giants replacing an injury prone QB with another injury prone QB. Nix seems conceivable to me, although he doesn't really match the archetype QB Schoen and Daboll seem to prefer.

Didn't he just get good medical reports at the combine?

In comment 16438410 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 16438403 LW_Giants said: Quote: In comment 16438400 Go Terps said: Quote: If we're willing to trade him to get the QB, why would somebody be willing to trade the QB to get him? The million dollar question, to me, is why Penix and Nix are viewed as so separate from these supposed top four prospects. I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix. Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why. I think the concern with Penix is the substantial injury history. If he had clean medicals he'd probably be in the running for top overall pick. I don't see the Giants replacing an injury prone QB with another injury prone QB. Nix seems conceivable to me, although he doesn't really match the archetype QB Schoen and Daboll seem to prefer. Didn't he just get good medical reports at the combine?

Yes, he's definitely health right now. The problem is the number of prior injuries. He's had his knees repaired more than once and has injured both shoulders. I'm not a doctor, but the number of injuries/surgeries he's already had probably doesn't bode well.

is forgetting it is lying season. Every day it is a different issue or story.
If Minny wants to sell the moon for #3 there is nothing the Giants can do, nor should they. They can beat Minny to #5 without selling the store.

In comment 16438349 christian said:

Quote:

Schoen has a 23M incentive to not float injury history as a reason. The only idiot on the staff dumb enough to do so is family.

Touché.

Love how Evan Neal possibly sucking (still remains to be seen) is somehow a massive mark on Schoen’s career. Every good GM takes a player high in the draft that ends up not being good. Want to know John Lynch’s first round draft picks?

Solomon Thomas - 3rd overall - pretty much a bust
Rueben Foster - 31st - out of football due to domestic violence issues and injuries
Mike McGlinchey - 9th - great player
Nick Bosa - 2nd - great player
Kinlaw - 14th - somewhat of a bust
Aiyuk - 25th - good
Lance - 3 - massive bust

Out of the 7 1st rounders that Lynch has drafted since 2017, 3 are good players.

Evan Neal was considered a consensus top 10 pick and was even 1st overall on the Cowboys board. Schoen drafted him 7th. Hasn’t worked out. It happens.

In comment 16438423 cosmicj said:

Quote:

In comment 16438349 christian said: Quote: Schoen has a 23M incentive to not float injury history as a reason. The only idiot on the staff dumb enough to do so is family. Touché.

They can cut any player at anytime for any reason. If they move on because of Jones' ability to get himself hurt often there is nothing the NFLPA can do. He is getting paid $47 mill this year whether he plays or not - that is the contract he signed.

first to select one there (or in the second or third) it would be helpful for our scouts and personnel guys to answer this one burning question:

Are Penix, Nix and/or Rattler better prospects drafted “later” in 2024 than whoever will comprise the top end of the supposedly weaker qb crop we could draft “early” in 2025 (assuming we put up a bad record this year and pick near the top of the first again next year)?

If so, much easier to stomach staying at 6 and taking a blue chip WR this year. Then take one of those supposedly lesser 3 QB’s “later” in the draft.

If not, move heaven and earth to trade up with NE or ARI and secure one of the top 4 qb prospects this year.

But even the DJFC has to realize we are razor thin at the position and have to come away from the draft with at least a legit prospect.

In comment 16438417 section125 said:

Quote:

is forgetting it is lying season. Every day it is a different issue or story. If Minny wants to sell the moon for #3 there is nothing the Giants can do, nor should they. They can beat Minny to #5 without selling the store.

If they offer something crazy to Minnesota we might have to include pick 47 or at least a future 2nd for them to trade with us

If true, wow. Just wow. The excuses for Jones…

What a lost and broken organization.

In comment 16438298 nyjuggernaut2 said:

Quote:

especially with the ammo Minnesota has now to move up. Caleb is going to Chicago, and Washington and New England are desperate for QBs, I just can’t see either of them trading down from their spots. And Minnesota has more to offer to move up to 4 or 5 now that they have two first round picks than the Giants do.

The 6th pick might be enough of a drop for a team in front of us. Do they really want 2 mids for a top pick. I'd MUCH prefer to only drop to 6 and grab the first next year, instead of outside the top 10 now and later first. (Unless they really like someone there, possible but normally you want that top talent pick.)

Maybe they stay at 5 and draft one of the top two WRs? The just let go of one and Allen is a free agent after this year.

In comment 16438350 Chris684 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438343 Silver Spoon said: Quote: BS. Let’s send out a puff piece and see how the fans react. So just out of curiosity how is Mara measuring the fan reaction here? Does he have BBI moles who report back to him? This is a little far fetched, no? It seems clear that any engagement the team has with its fans on social media, it’s overwhelmingly obvious this fanbase wants to move on from Jones, and rightly so.

Exactly. People need to crawl out side of this bubble called BBI. Opinions here do not necessarily reflect the fan base.

In comment 16438430 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

Love how Evan Neal possibly sucking (still remains to be seen) is somehow a massive mark on Schoen’s career. Every good GM takes a player high in the draft that ends up not being good. Want to know John Lynch’s first round draft picks? Solomon Thomas - 3rd overall - pretty much a bust Rueben Foster - 31st - out of football due to domestic violence issues and injuries Mike McGlinchey - 9th - great player Nick Bosa - 2nd - great player Kinlaw - 14th - somewhat of a bust Aiyuk - 25th - good Lance - 3 - massive bust Out of the 7 1st rounders that Lynch has drafted since 2017, 3 are good players. Evan Neal was considered a consensus top 10 pick and was even 1st overall on the Cowboys board. Schoen drafted him 7th. Hasn’t worked out. It happens.

John Lynch has won multiple wild card games.

Enough with the Jones trashing. We know the legion of detractors but some of you beat your point to death. This team is so lacking in overall talent that whatever player we select at six, if we stay there, will be an upgrade.
My preference at six is McCarthy but that's just my opinion with limited knowledge about his talent. It's just a feeling that he has the "it" factor. We can only hope that Schoen gets it right. This draft in its entirety must be successful for our team to get on the winning track again.

whenever someone reports something....anything.

so far in the past couple of weeks we have reports that the Giants love Jones and will stick with him. We hear the Giants will trade up. We hear the Giants will trade down. We hear the Giants will just pick BPA.

Dont even react to this shit already. Of course the Giants are speaking with teams about moving up and down. They would be irresponsible if they did not have preliminary conversations about what that could look like because you cannot get all of that done in just two minutes when you are on the clock.

They are covering all bases in the event that draft selections take an unexpected turn.

WTF people

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year.

Yeah its quite clearly this. Some people in this thread have their head in the sand on all of the asshat tidbits regarding moving on from Jones.

I will say I’ve heard of trading down as a possibility but that also goes for trading up. Schoen is correctly planning multiple avenues of how to proceed on draft night.

The hard truth I’ve accepted is the QB they want may not be there and its easy to say “do whatever it takes to trade up” but they seriously need top 3 draft capital right now. I’m sure they’re willing to part with a significant portion of it too but if NE doesn’t want to move, what can you do?

As someone who wants to move on from DJ I’ll say this - if the OL is adequate next year he could pleasantly surprise. Not by any means an MVP type season, just closer to 2022 where he does enough to win games.

Arizona or the Chargers, not the Patriots.

Whether or not anyone believes DJ can lead this team to the promised land, his lengthy and serious injury history mean it would be foolish to rely on him going forward - need to move on. If DJ is smart, he should want to do the same thing, there is more to life than football.

Mara: Its not you DJ, its us.

In comment 16438471 GiantGrit said:

Quote:

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said: Quote: for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year. Yeah its quite clearly this. Some people in this thread have their head in the sand on all of the asshat tidbits regarding moving on from Jones. I will say I’ve heard of trading down as a possibility but that also goes for trading up. Schoen is correctly planning multiple avenues of how to proceed on draft night. The hard truth I’ve accepted is the QB they want may not be there and its easy to say “do whatever it takes to trade up” but they seriously need top 3 draft capital right now. I’m sure they’re willing to part with a significant portion of it too but if NE doesn’t want to move, what can you do? As someone who wants to move on from DJ I’ll say this - if the OL is adequate next year he could pleasantly surprise. Not by any means an MVP type season, just closer to 2022 where he does enough to win games.

he will be injured by week 7, Giants will be a bottom 7 team in the league again and there will be changes. If they didn’t think they could draft one the dumbasses should’ve done better than drew lock in FA.

for giving him that contract. We are only giving up because of injury now!

The “absolutely not” to Russ as a starter lol. He sucks but Daniel Jones can’t hold his jock strap. The idea that how dare RW think he could start over Daniel. This is a hopeless lost organization. Worst QB room in the league next year.

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year.

The Giants should stop wasting time (as always) manufacturing PR spin and spend more time trying to actually get the player they want.

In comment 16438471 GiantGrit said:

Quote:

In comment 16438253 Mike from Ohio said: Quote: for the talking points if they can't land a QB in the draft. "We were never looking for one. We just signed Daniel Jones to a 4 year contract and we expect him to lead this team!" They are concerned that they have no path forward at QB this year. Yeah its quite clearly this. Some people in this thread have their head in the sand on all of the asshat tidbits regarding moving on from Jones. I will say I’ve heard of trading down as a possibility but that also goes for trading up. Schoen is correctly planning multiple avenues of how to proceed on draft night. The hard truth I’ve accepted is the QB they want may not be there and its easy to say “do whatever it takes to trade up” but they seriously need top 3 draft capital right now. I’m sure they’re willing to part with a significant portion of it too but if NE doesn’t want to move, what can you do? As someone who wants to move on from DJ I’ll say this - if the OL is adequate next year he could pleasantly surprise. Not by any means an MVP type season, just closer to 2022 where he does enough to win games.

I’m sure he could win 7-8 games if he stays healthy. Even mediocre backups have shown that in the NFL. But that’s not good enough with the injury history and the contract balloons - it also puts Schoen in a bind for 2025 given contract structure. QB hell.

In comment 16438355 Sean said:

Quote:

I'd be good with that.

I don't se how Penix lasts until 47.

Im sorry but they both have major QBs and are in desperate need of a WR for that QB and none of the top 3 will be there at 11.

Why on Earth would they want to do that? For the 11 and 23?

Sys grades on these WRs are ridiculously high and this is not usual for 3 to get that.

The Giants are well positioned to sit tight at 6 and land the 4th QB in this draft. They are also well positioned to offer a small trade up to either team who could still land a WR they want and grab and extra draft pick.


Is there anyone here who would say trade Nabers or Odunze plus a 3rd rd pick for say Brian Thomas & Graham Barton?

+100. The effort at spin is oblivious to a post online world where organizational messaging is at best subject to debate and at worst ignored entirely. The Giants are like a microcosm of our larger world: an incompetent and deluded set of decision makers and a public who doesn’t trust any of them.

That Schoen will have multiple scenarios in place to perhaps trade up or down in the draft based on who is picked where. He did that last year, he had different trades already discussed with other teams ready to pull the trigger if the draft played out certain ways.

They think they can spin this with a “we tried so you are stuck with Jones” season

If this team gets jumped for a QB and cant land one so they draft a 3rd/4th rd guy and they start the season 1-5 or so and cant make it past October - again. And we are looking at a weak QB draft, no job is getting spared because they wanted to but couldn’t get a QB at 6.

Daniel Jones to open the first 5 games of the last 4 years

2020- 3 TDs
2021- 4 TD
2022- 3 TDs
2023- 2 TDs

Good luck spinning that

And how is not having Barkley for 3 of his 5 starts an excuse for his play when we he is no longer on the team ? What are we expecting now?

are not going to take the QB (or the QBs are gone), why would they trade down and not take the WR of their preference?

I'm not sure I buy this.

hypothetical. That doesn't mean it's their Plan A, B, or C

that article resonates at being true to me. It just seems very "Giant like" in thinking.

but if they run a DJ lead NYG offense out on the field week one - and it goes badly - NYG football will not be a priority in our household starting week two.

In comment 16438523 Dnew15 said:

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but if they run a DJ lead NYG offense out on the field week one - and it goes badly - NYG football will not be a priority in our household starting week two.

If they don't land a QB at the top of the draft, they had better pray one of three things: (1) Daniel Jones becomes Simms 2.0, (2) Drew Lock has a career renaissance, or (3) they get incredibly lucky with 2nd or 3rd round QB.

None of these things are likely however.

trade down option only makes sense if there are QBs, WRs, OLs they really don't like at #6 and they are simply game-planning for worst-case scenario.

Otherwise, why would you pass on the top three WRs?

since season's end that the "spin" to signing Jones then walking away from Jones after giving him a big contract was going to be "we still love him as a player but we're moving on because his injury history concerns us".

Article reflects this, Ralph also mentions the possibility of going QB day 2 which I'm beginning to think is a bigger possibility than I originally thought.

Would be thrilled if we can trade down a few slots, grab Nix/Penix and accumulate more draft capital to build the roster with. Good chance it winds up the best outcome for us.

In comment 16438440 section125 said:

Quote:

Schoen has a 23M incentive to not float injury history as a reason. The only idiot on the staff dumb enough to do so is family. Touché. They can cut any player at anytime for any reason. If they move on because of Jones' ability to get himself hurt often there is nothing the NFLPA can do. He is getting paid $47 mill this year whether he plays or not - that is the contract he signed.

That's not what we're referring to.

If for instance idiot Cousin Tim texted Vacchiano something to the effect that the Giants are moving off Jones because of fear his neck presents a long term risk to his play, Jones would have great grounds for a grievance to be paid his 2025 injury guarantee.

In comment 16438531 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

trade down option only makes sense if there are QBs, WRs, OLs they really don't like at #6 and they are simply game-planning for worst-case scenario. Otherwise, why would you pass on the top three WRs?

I agree, makes no sense.

In comment 16438516 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

that article resonates at being true to me. It just seems very "Giant like" in thinking.

So for the past two months all we heard was the Giants were done with Jones and now they are building him up? Everything they did showed moving on.

I get not grossly overpaying to move up. Giving up a reasonable amount of picks to get to 3 is expected. Giving up 1st and 2nd this and next year(perhaps more) to go 3 spots is not reasonable unless it is for an Eli and even he was 1st and 5th each year (IIRC)

IMHO, virtually any QB they get will be better than Jones. So get Odunze (or Nabers) at #6. Perhaps try for Penix in the 2nd or Rattler in the 3rd (not a fan at all of Rattler but perhaps he is better than DeVito.) Maybe even Jordan Travis 3rd or 4th round.

The Giants are so deficient on talent that they need more picks, not less. Not sure if anyone would trade up to 6 but perhaps a trade back for an additional 2nd with the Bears for 9 and then take Nix ahead of Denver.....

In comment 16438523 Dnew15 said:

Quote:

but if they run a DJ lead NYG offense out on the field week one - and it goes badly - NYG football will not be a priority in our household starting week two.

There’s a lot of us in that boat.

In comment 16438491 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

In comment 16438355 Sean said: Quote: I'd be good with that. I don't se how Penix lasts until 47.

You're likely trading back up into the first.

In comment 16438350 Chris684 said:

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In comment 16438343 Silver Spoon said: Quote: BS. Let’s send out a puff piece and see how the fans react. So just out of curiosity how is Mara measuring the fan reaction here? Does he have BBI moles who report back to him? This is a little far fetched, no? It seems clear that any engagement the team has with its fans on social media, it’s overwhelmingly obvious this fanbase wants to move on from Jones, and rightly so.

Eric has confirmed people from inside the building check BBI

Plus the biggest piece pf evidence: the clown show picture in 2021.

Will not be on board in round 2 at 47. Nor do Giants have trade up ammo

approach has run its course.

just jump on the MARA narrative like you have ANY clue as to what really is going on. Here is what I see from this article:

Giants didn't lose faith in Jones's ability to be the guy they signed- which to me doesn't mean anything more than any other statement they have said.

Giants are VERY concerned his NECK issues (plural) are something they cannot take the risk on and need to have another plan for the long term.

The fact that Ralph V cites his own work means NOTHING to me. We have heard the Giants still believe in Jones, the Giants are 100% done with Jones, the Giants are open to having long term plans, they are looking to move up, they are looking to move down...

All I have heard through all of this, and it is the one thing that tells me the most, is that Daniel Jones is a subject within the Giants that is being brought up over and over and over again.. Smoke equals fire...

Giants right now have to have a plan to move back if the QB they want is gone (which is a good thing).. Many of you cry out don't over draft etc and then cry out if the Giants are thinking of moving back- Mara is running the show and forcing Jones to be the starter.. You are lemmings, led by whatever article positively or negatively impacts your already preconceived notions..

I want the Giants looking at all options. I am more than willing to say I have ZERO doubt we draft a QB, the question to be answered is where in the draft we do it. You can count on, unless some miracle happens and Jones changes into someone else or we revert to a 1990 version of the Giants with 40 minutes of ball control, bigtime running game (three or four headed monster), low scoring defensive led wins with a QB throwing 15 TD passes total for the season but less than 5 Ints too, that 2024 is Jones's last year with the Gmen.

will come on the day of the draft depending on the availability of their desired player at the time when they are on the clock. both teams will already of the outlines of the trade in place and then give teams a chance to anti-up.

In comment 16438551 HardTruth said:

Quote:

Will not be on board in round 2 at 47. Nor do Giants have trade up ammo

Why don’t we have ammo? Teams trade future picks all the time. From a draft value perspective, 47 and our 3rd can move us back up to KCs pick at 32, adding a future 3rd can get us into the 20’s. We can absolutely trade up.

In comment 16438531 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

trade down option only makes sense if there are QBs, WRs, OLs they really don't like at #6 and they are simply game-planning for worst-case scenario. Otherwise, why would you pass on the top three WRs?

Because the roster is littered with holes. That’s the only reason you’d move down. To get more players to plug in the multitude of holes

If the Giants don't intend to pick a quarterback at 6, one responsible contingency is to coordinate the parameters of a trade with Minnesota.

Because the draft can potentially go Williams, Mayes, Daniels -- you can assume the Vikings will have gauged the cost to move to 4, 5, and 6.

Trading 6 for 11 and 23 is a viable option for the Giants.

Baltimore gave up 52, 125 and a future 2nd for 32 and 132 in 2019 for Jackson.

Giving up 47 and 70 and a future non 1st or 2nd seems very doable depending on how high we need to go.

In comment 16438467 DefenseWins said:

Quote:

whenever someone reports something....anything. so far in the past couple of weeks we have reports that the Giants love Jones and will stick with him. We hear the Giants will trade up. We hear the Giants will trade down. We hear the Giants will just pick BPA. Dont even react to this shit already. Of course the Giants are speaking with teams about moving up and down. They would be irresponsible if they did not have preliminary conversations about what that could look like because you cannot get all of that done in just two minutes when you are on the clock. They are covering all bases in the event that draft selections take an unexpected turn. WTF people

LOL, so true. This is clearly a fluff piece publicly supporting Jones while offering safe landing exit for when they move on.

A lot of fans aren't okay with McCarthy at six, yet it seems with Minnesota attempting to jump NYG to draft McCarthy, fans suddenly want McCarthy more.

Also, despite what fluff pieces may come out on Jones, the league clearly sees NYG as a very likely QB possibility at six. If they were so bullish on Jones, there would be no threat for QB there.

In comment 16438562 christian said:

Quote:

If the Giants don't intend to pick a quarterback at 6, one responsible contingency is to coordinate the parameters of a trade with Minnesota. Because the draft can potentially go Williams, Mayes, Daniels -- you can assume the Vikings will have gauged the cost to move to 4, 5, and 6. Trading 6 for 11 and 23 is a viable option for the Giants.

That would not break my heart. Nix at 11 and Thomas or McConkey at 23 would be a pretty good plan B...

In comment 16438531 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

trade down option only makes sense if there are QBs, WRs, OLs they really don't like at #6 and they are simply game-planning for worst-case scenario. Otherwise, why would you pass on the top three WRs?

You don't pass on them unless you are playing BBI Fantasy Draft and assume in a deep WR draft the gy you can get on Day 2 will be as good as one of the top 3 WRs.

I think Schoen (and the rest of us) have seen that his Day 2 WRs are fine but nothing special out of the box.

WR1 currently should be an open spot on your Depth Chart drop-down.

In comment 16438533 Biteymax22 said:

Quote:

since season's end that the "spin" to signing Jones then walking away from Jones after giving him a big contract was going to be "we still love him as a player but we're moving on because his injury history concerns us". Article reflects this, Ralph also mentions the possibility of going QB day 2 which I'm beginning to think is a bigger possibility than I originally thought.

I hear you on DJ injury concerns so we gotta move on - move...it makes a ton of sense. I just want them to do it sooner than later.

It sounds like the DG "retirement" move.

Both are classic Jints Central moves.

If Giants QB plan A fails, plan B could be dropping a couple spots to get a QB from tier 2 while picking up draft picks to help flesh out the team.

Everyone and their brother knows DJ is an injury risk. The OP quote made sure to specify concern for re-injury, not that he's ruined for life.

In comment 16438531 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

trade down option only makes sense if there are QBs, WRs, OLs they really don't like at #6 and they are simply game-planning for worst-case scenario. Otherwise, why would you pass on the top three WRs?

QB aside, if Odunze is on the board and Giants pass on taking him to trade down into early teens to maybe take a CB or DT I would be very very upset.

And it working? Teams don't trade down for QBs in the first round. Teams will trade back into the first if the value is there, but I've never heard of a team dropping down a few spots to draft a QB they deem a first round value.

we're going to be left out in the cold with one of top QBs. Absolutely unreal if that happens.

Of not being in position to control the outcome. Minn's all in play raises the anti on an arms race. They need a plan here but there's no clear-cut path so they need to consider the problem from all angles.

In comment 16438584 Dave in Hoboken said:

Quote:

we're going to be left out in the cold with one of top QBs. Absolutely unreal if that happens.

We'll always have the good feels from Tommy Cutlets!

In comment 16438592 Scooter185 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438584 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: we're going to be left out in the cold with one of top QBs. Absolutely unreal if that happens. We'll always have the good feels from Tommy Cutlets!

Never forget all of the fans on here that were "rooting for every win!" Geniuses.

starts to take hold.

In comment 16438584 Dave in Hoboken said:

Quote:

we're going to be left out in the cold with one of top QBs. Absolutely unreal if that happens.

Please dont say this!

What a nightmare it would be!

It just cracks me up that there are still people in that building who seemingly believe in Jones’ ability. Like, what are we doing people?

seems to have some truth in it.

Nothing wrong with trading back as long as they are confident they are still getting a high impact player. I would also want a 2025 1st and some other picks.

Draft good players to build a better team. BPA. If Daboll stumbles again then you hire a better HC next season.

I agree with the posters that a QB will be drafted and it is just about where in the draft.

In comment 16438593 Dave in Hoboken said:

Quote:

In comment 16438592 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16438584 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: we're going to be left out in the cold with one of top QBs. Absolutely unreal if that happens. We'll always have the good feels from Tommy Cutlets! Never forget all of the fans on here that were "rooting for every win!" Geniuses.

Right, we should all root for losses...what a stupid take. Do you really turn on the TV to root for them to lose? If you do, why wouldn't you just pick another team and forget the Giants?

In comment 16438583 Sean said:

Quote:

And it working? Teams don't trade down for QBs in the first round. Teams will trade back into the first if the value is there, but I've never heard of a team dropping down a few spots to draft a QB they deem a first round value.

In 2004 the Chargers traded down for Rivers. They preferred him to Eli but knew Eli was the consensus top pick on most boards (specifically the Giants).

In comment 16438583 Sean said:

Quote:

And it working? Teams don't trade down for QBs in the first round. Teams will trade back into the first if the value is there, but I've never heard of a team dropping down a few spots to draft a QB they deem a first round value.

The Bears last year seemed to work out for them?

In comment 16438400 Go Terps said:

Quote:

If we're willing to trade him to get the QB, why would somebody be willing to trade the QB to get him? The million dollar question, to me, is why Penix and Nix are viewed as so separate from these supposed top four prospects. I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix. Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why.

Agree with this:

Quote:

Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3.

In comment 16438403 LW_Giants said:

Quote:

In comment 16438400 Go Terps said: Quote: If we're willing to trade him to get the QB, why would somebody be willing to trade the QB to get him? The million dollar question, to me, is why Penix and Nix are viewed as so separate from these supposed top four prospects. I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix. Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why. I think the concern with Penix is the substantial injury history. If he had clean medicals he'd probably be in the running for top overall pick. I don't see the Giants replacing an injury prone QB with another injury prone QB. Nix seems conceivable to me, although he doesn't really match the archetype QB Schoen and Daboll seem to prefer.

Also agree with this. I should have clarified that I don't want Penix. His injury history is preclusive. I simply don't want to trade up for any of the "big four" QBs, except maybe to #5, and even then, only if it costs us #70.

In comment 16438583 Sean said:

Quote:

And it working? Teams don't trade down for QBs in the first round. Teams will trade back into the first if the value is there, but I've never heard of a team dropping down a few spots to draft a QB they deem a first round value.

What did the Ravens do in 2018 with Jackson? Was he taken after a trade down or just taken with their second pick in Rd 1? Don't recall exactly but it was somewhat out of ordinary.

In comment 16438593 Dave in Hoboken said:

Quote:

In comment 16438592 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16438584 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: we're going to be left out in the cold with one of top QBs. Absolutely unreal if that happens. We'll always have the good feels from Tommy Cutlets! Never forget all of the fans on here that were "rooting for every win!" Geniuses.

I was rooting for wins. The draft situation literally has not played out yet and you are declaring disaster. The interesting thing is: losing games to get a better draft position guarantees nothing other than a higher draft choice. I choose to root for those wins as a fan not because I necessarily think it will help the team unite ( although not impossible). I have stated multiple times: fans that root for losses are free to do that ( I understand the thinking behind it). Fans that root for those “meaningless” wins like myself, we are free to do that.

Through Ralph V…

Why would they do that?

Because they want one of their top 2 receivers, not McCarthy - and the rest of the league is catching on to it (through the Lock & Wilson information that was leakers)

They want to put the pressure on Minnesota to get in front of them - whether Minnesota thinks they are going QB or trading down.

At the combine.

If the Giants really wanted to, they could spin their way out of the supposed hipocricy by leaning on the neck injury as the primary reason, which Penix has no history of.

Frankly, I think the injury PR spin is just pointless anyway. Announce Jones as a post-June 1 cut and move on. You don't need to provide a 'reason' for heaven's sake, it's not like the fans are gonna burn the facility over this.

oof.

In comment 16438627 ThomasG said:

Quote:

In comment 16438583 Sean said: Quote: And it working? Teams don't trade down for QBs in the first round. Teams will trade back into the first if the value is there, but I've never heard of a team dropping down a few spots to draft a QB they deem a first round value. What did the Ravens do in 2018 with Jackson? Was he taken after a trade down or just taken with their second pick in Rd 1? Don't recall exactly but it was somewhat out of ordinary.

I think the Ravens passed on Jackson twice before trading back into the first round to take him, but I will defer to others if I am wrong.

Personally, I wouldn't want to trade all the way back from 28 to 47, but the trade chart says 47 and 70 is a fair exchange for the 28th overall pick where they might be able to get Penix or Nix. That being said, I don't think either of the two lasts even that long. Minnesota, Denver, and Oakland (and maybe even New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Tampa Bay) are all in the QB hunt (in addition to Chicago, Washington, and New England) so it's hard to imagine any of the Big Six making it past the 20th pick. They could all be gone by the time the Raiders are on the clock.

In comment 16438569 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438562 christian said: Quote: If the Giants don't intend to pick a quarterback at 6, one responsible contingency is to coordinate the parameters of a trade with Minnesota. Because the draft can potentially go Williams, Mayes, Daniels -- you can assume the Vikings will have gauged the cost to move to 4, 5, and 6. Trading 6 for 11 and 23 is a viable option for the Giants. That would not break my heart. Nix at 11 and Thomas or McConkey at 23 would be a pretty good plan B...

This. I think Nix is going to be a pretty good NFL QB. I also think Thomas is going to be a very good #1 WR. If Schoen and Daboll think McCarthy and Nix are similar in grade and upside but Nix might be more ready to start and that they can't get Maye ( assuming he is the guy they really want ) then trade back with Minnesota, Get 2 first round picks this year, maybe a 1st in 2025, draft Nix and Thomas or McConkey. That would be a great move IMO.

think Nix and Penix will be long gone by the end of the first round. I could see them going to Denver and Las Vegas. Trading back into the bottom of the first round for either is a pipe dream IMO.

In comment 16438627 ThomasG said:

Quote:

In comment 16438583 Sean said: Quote: And it working? Teams don't trade down for QBs in the first round. Teams will trade back into the first if the value is there, but I've never heard of a team dropping down a few spots to draft a QB they deem a first round value. What did the Ravens do in 2018 with Jackson? Was he taken after a trade down or just taken with their second pick in Rd 1? Don't recall exactly but it was somewhat out of ordinary.

They traded back into the first to get him.

In comment 16438647 AcidTest said:

Quote:

think Nix and Penix will be long gone by the end of the first round. I could see them going to Denver and Las Vegas. Trading back into the bottom of the first round for either is a pipe dream IMO.

yep....I agree. I doubt Nix gets past Denver.

In comment 16438620 JT039 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438583 Sean said: Quote: And it working? Teams don't trade down for QBs in the first round. Teams will trade back into the first if the value is there, but I've never heard of a team dropping down a few spots to draft a QB they deem a first round value. The Bears last year seemed to work out for them?

The Bears didn't select a QB. Trading down to select a QB.

In comment 16438617 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16438583 Sean said: Quote: And it working? Teams don't trade down for QBs in the first round. Teams will trade back into the first if the value is there, but I've never heard of a team dropping down a few spots to draft a QB they deem a first round value. In 2004 the Chargers traded down for Rivers. They preferred him to Eli but knew Eli was the consensus top pick on most boards (specifically the Giants).

This is good but a little different in that it was more of a straight trade rather than trading down and hoping the QB is there.

In comment 16438542 section125 said:

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In comment 16438516 Eric from BBI said: Quote: that article resonates at being true to me. It just seems very "Giant like" in thinking. So for the past two months all we heard was the Giants were done with Jones and now they are building him up? Everything they did showed moving on. I get not grossly overpaying to move up. Giving up a reasonable amount of picks to get to 3 is expected. Giving up 1st and 2nd this and next year(perhaps more) to go 3 spots is not reasonable unless it is for an Eli and even he was 1st and 5th each year (IIRC) IMHO, virtually any QB they get will be better than Jones. So get Odunze (or Nabers) at #6. Perhaps try for Penix in the 2nd or Rattler in the 3rd (not a fan at all of Rattler but perhaps he is better than DeVito.) Maybe even Jordan Travis 3rd or 4th round. The Giants are so deficient on talent that they need more picks, not less. Not sure if anyone would trade up to 6 but perhaps a trade back for an additional 2nd with the Bears for 9 and then take Nix ahead of Denver.....

I don't know which direction the NYG take with the #6 pick, but I'm sure that Schoen will not know either until the 5th selection is made.
If anything, what we know about Schoen is that he does his homework and will be ready for all contingencies.

In comment 16438608 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

It just cracks me up that there are still people in that building who seemingly believe in Jones’ ability. Like, what are we doing people?

Anyone “believing “ in ability and not results after 60 games in the NFL has no business in professional sports.

In comment 16438608 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

It just cracks me up that there are still people in that building who seemingly believe in Jones’ ability. Like, what are we doing people?

That believe he can be their Eli Manning.

In comment 16438262 christian said:

Quote:

I sure hope the usual loose lipped suspect at Jints Central isn't floating concerns about Jones's neck. That's a grievance in the making.

The schmuck on the left is gonna be here for a while unfortunately...

The ‘their Eli Manning’ line…again, are people in that building on drugs? If people in the power structure seriously believe that, then this organization is so beyond lost.

In comment 16438593 Dave in Hoboken said:

Quote:

In comment 16438592 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16438584 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: we're going to be left out in the cold with one of top QBs. Absolutely unreal if that happens. We'll always have the good feels from Tommy Cutlets! Never forget all of the fans on here that were "rooting for every win!" Geniuses.

Sorry!
Some of us thought that was the purpose of playing the game.
(Remember, "fan" is short for "fanatic" - and also before you invest too much of your life in the outcome "It's only a game".)

But Schoen would really have to finesse where he moves down to in order to draft them, or prepared to be flamed by the media and most of this fanbase for taking one of them at 6.

Let's say the top 4 got in slots 1-5 with Bears, Comms, Pats and Vikes all getting their guy. That is what's known as a run on QBs and with Denver likely looking long and hard at the position at number 12, it's very possible only Nix or Penix is available by pick 13 and whoever it is, will never last to 47.

I think Nix and Penix should both be in play honestly (I like Nix more based solely on medical) and, yes, if you can trade somewhere between 13-25 and get back the extra 2nd, this is a viable option as well.

Agreed, it would be QB hell. They need to make a bold move I just don’t know if they have a dance partner.

In comment 16438456 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

If true, wow. Just wow. The excuses for Jones… What a lost and broken organization.

Especially given the fact that one of tbe excuses (No Saquon for 3 games) will be the status quo for this year

In comment 16438531 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

trade down option only makes sense if there are QBs, WRs, OLs they really don't like at #6 and they are simply game-planning for worst-case scenario. Otherwise, why would you pass on the top three WRs?

Because its another giveaway they arent in on Jones. You dont trade out of a WR1 you have spent years trying to acquire (Golladay, Davonta Smith/Toney, Waller) if you think you have a QB

In comment 16438685 GiantGrit said:

Quote:

Agreed, it would be QB hell. They need to make a bold move I just don’t know if they have a dance partner.

If the Vikings have a dance partner, why wouldn't the Giants?

In comment 16438679 Chris684 said:

Quote:

Let's say the top 4 got in slots 1-5 with Bears, Comms, Pats and Vikes all getting their guy. That is what's known as a run on QBs and with Denver likely looking long and hard at the position at number 12, it's very possible only Nix or Penix is available by pick 13 and whoever it is, will never last to 47.

Assuming the trade with Vikes is Arizona, could see the Cards trading the #11 pick (and more obviously) to the Giants for #6. The 11th pick would be a nice spot to grab Nix or Penix (and the 5th year option will be cheaper because it's not in the top ten). I could also see the Broncos and/or Raiders jumping the Giants, but if all six QBs go in the top ten, it'll mean great value for the Giants with the 11th pick.

In comment 16438676 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

The ‘their Eli Manning’ line…again, are people in that building on drugs? If people in the power structure seriously believe that, then this organization is so beyond lost.

It’s real confusing how they’ve had the worst record in the NFC for a decade

In comment 16438697 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16438679 Chris684 said: Quote: Let's say the top 4 got in slots 1-5 with Bears, Comms, Pats and Vikes all getting their guy. That is what's known as a run on QBs and with Denver likely looking long and hard at the position at number 12, it's very possible only Nix or Penix is available by pick 13 and whoever it is, will never last to 47. Assuming the trade with Vikes is Arizona, could see the Cards trading the #11 pick (and more obviously) to the Giants for #6. The 11th pick would be a nice spot to grab Nix or Penix (and the 5th year option will be cheaper because it's not in the top ten). I could also see the Broncos and/or Raiders jumping the Giants, but if all six QBs go in the top ten, it'll mean great value for the Giants with the 11th pick.

And no QB.

Value?

In comment 16438354 Giantimistic said:

Quote:

Living up in Boston I listen to a lot of New England sports radio to try and get an idea of what the Patriots will do. The fans are killing them for not spending on free agents at all. There is talk that the Patriots need so much that they may trade down to start to rebuild the team from the ground up and that they may want a stronger team before they bring in their QB. There is a lot of talk of the ownership being very involved. There is some discussion of the ownership and the GM having some differ. Thoughts on what direction to go.

Please share with us anything you hear from there and thanks!

In comment 16438698 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438676 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: The ‘their Eli Manning’ line…again, are people in that building on drugs? If people in the power structure seriously believe that, then this organization is so beyond lost. It’s real confusing how they’ve had the worst record in the NFC for a decade

Why are you guys fixated on Ralph’s opinion piece? There are no direct quotes in there that aren’t health related, it’s all conjecture. The only quote was of a trainer who stated the obvious about his injury.

In comment 16438707 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438698 ajr2456 said: Quote: In comment 16438676 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: The ‘their Eli Manning’ line…again, are people in that building on drugs? If people in the power structure seriously believe that, then this organization is so beyond lost. It’s real confusing how they’ve had the worst record in the NFC for a decade Why are you guys fixated on Ralph’s opinion piece? There are no direct quotes in there that aren’t health related, it’s all conjecture. The only quote was of a trainer who stated the obvious about his injury.

According to some folks on the site, Ralph is the Mara's outlet and this isn't an opinion, its John Mara telling Ralph what to write

Because Ralph is pretty plugged in & I doubt he’s making shit up. I suspect he’s getting nuggets from people inside the building.

Whenever Serby or Ralph V floats something laughable to most sane people, I usually think he’s getting tidbits from John. That’s my opinion of course. I have no way to prove it.

And how they’ve handled him so far.

Is it really that far fetched that people in the building still think he’s their guy?

In comment 16438381 gameday555 said:

Quote:

Can essentially confirm firsthand what others in this thread and elsewhere have said -- ownership has largely given up the ghost on DJ as the longterm answer....but solely because of injuries. The person I know still waxes poetic about DJ the person and even his onfield performance. It's disturbing to me that such mediocrity is not only tolerated but celebrated. That's all the info I have on everything at moment, limited as it is. Hoping to get more soon. Also, this part I don't have any source attached to, just my sneaking suspicion. But we are NOT talking enough about Bo Nix and Penix as second round / trade up candidates. McCarthy debate has overshadowed this topic too much.

Thanks for sharing!!

With a solid offensive line and getting a defensive end and a cornerback in the draft the Giants could be a playoff team.

In comment 16438731 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

And how they’ve handled him so far. Is it really that far fetched that people in the building still think he’s their guy?

Yes it is. Everything we heard post season, especially around the Combine was that the Giants were done with Jones.

In comment 16438381 gameday555 said:

Quote:

Can essentially confirm firsthand what others in this thread and elsewhere have said -- ownership has largely given up the ghost on DJ as the longterm answer....but solely because of injuries. The person I know still waxes poetic about DJ the person and even his onfield performance. It's disturbing to me that such mediocrity is not only tolerated but celebrated. That's all the info I have on everything at moment, limited as it is. Hoping to get more soon. Also, this part I don't have any source attached to, just my sneaking suspicion. But we are NOT talking enough about Bo Nix and Penix as second round / trade up candidates. McCarthy debate has overshadowed this topic too much.

So disturbing. Ownership lives in its own little pretend world.

also hate it when they are so transparently obvious about their intentions for the opposite things i do like to the point teams like minnesota can beat them to the punch.

why is it that everyone always knows exactly what the nyg are thinking even when they are thinking opposite things?

In comment 16438785 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438731 ajr2456 said: Quote: And how they’ve handled him so far. Is it really that far fetched that people in the building still think he’s their guy? Yes it is. Everything we heard post season, especially around the Combine was that the Giants were done with Jones.

Did you read the article? Being done with Jones because of the injuries doesn’t mean there aren’t still people there that believe in his ability,

Multiple things are allowed to be true.

In comment 16438622 AcidTest said:

Quote:

In comment 16438400 Go Terps said: Quote: If we're willing to trade him to get the QB, why would somebody be willing to trade the QB to get him? The million dollar question, to me, is why Penix and Nix are viewed as so separate from these supposed top four prospects. I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix. Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why. Agree with this: Quote: Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3.

Go Terps good post and I know I m starting to sound redundant and as I've stated a million time before I'm no QB guru but might we be better off somehow grabbing Nix in the 2nd with a move that might cost less?

does nothing to solve our QB problem. Gotta do what they must do to get one of the top 4.

These top 4 QB’s i say trade back and get Dallas Turner, then go for WR and Rb and OL, This team had too many holes to fill. We aren’t going to do anything this year anyways.

In comment 16438871 Shirk130 said:

Quote:

does nothing to solve our QB problem. Gotta do what they must do to get one of the top 4.

I mean it's not unreasonable to think a healthy Pennix could light up the NFL, unfortunately I think other NFL teams will agree and he could end up going to the Seahawks or higher

In comment 16438863 Blue21 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438622 AcidTest said: Quote: In comment 16438400 Go Terps said: Quote: If we're willing to trade him to get the QB, why would somebody be willing to trade the QB to get him? The million dollar question, to me, is why Penix and Nix are viewed as so separate from these supposed top four prospects. I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix. Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why. Agree with this: Quote: Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Go Terps good post and I know I m starting to sound redundant and as I've stated a million time before I'm no QB guru but might we be better off somehow grabbing Nix in the 2nd with a move that might cost less?

I don't see much of a chance Nix lasts to the 2nd. He's going to the Broncos or Patriots after a trade down imo. Pennix won't last to the 2nd either I don't think.

In comment 16438936 BleedBlue46 said:

Quote:

I don't see much of a chance Nix lasts to the 2nd. He's going to the Broncos or Patriots after a trade down imo. Pennix won't last to the 2nd either I don't think.

Anything substantive that helps support this or just pure opinion?

In comment 16438528 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16438523 Dnew15 said: Quote: but if they run a DJ lead NYG offense out on the field week one - and it goes badly - NYG football will not be a priority in our household starting week two. If they don't land a QB at the top of the draft, they had better pray one of three things: (1) Daniel Jones becomes Simms 2.0, (2) Drew Lock has a career renaissance, or (3) they get incredibly lucky with 2nd or 3rd round QB. None of these things are likely however.

they just won 10 games in 2022 with Jones and he was not Simms 2.0 that year. At least not according to the masses here he wasn't. I guess it can't happen again but last year's first 6 games WILL happen again? IS that it?

Daily dose of BBI DJ hysterics.

In comment 16439036 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16438528 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 16438523 Dnew15 said: Quote: but if they run a DJ lead NYG offense out on the field week one - and it goes badly - NYG football will not be a priority in our household starting week two. If they don't land a QB at the top of the draft, they had better pray one of three things: (1) Daniel Jones becomes Simms 2.0, (2) Drew Lock has a career renaissance, or (3) they get incredibly lucky with 2nd or 3rd round QB. None of these things are likely however. they just won 10 games in 2022 with Jones and he was not Simms 2.0 that year. At least not according to the masses here he wasn't. I guess it can't happen again but last year's first 6 games WILL happen again? IS that it? Daily dose of BBI DJ hysterics.

Sure it can happen again with Jones. And he will be under contract in 2024 notwithstanding them drafting another QB (or not).

So what's your issue djm?

draft the QB. Shit you can trade the Brooklyn bridge, NY pizza and Mara's hedge fund to get the QB for all I care. Just about every NYG fan thinks this way.

But we can win games in 2024 with Jones. I saw it happen with this same staff in 2022. Better defense and OL? Sure it can happen.

Just get players. The QB will happen sooner than later.

In comment 16439049 nygiantfan said:

Quote:

In comment 16439036 djm said: Quote: In comment 16438528 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 16438523 Dnew15 said: Quote: but if they run a DJ lead NYG offense out on the field week one - and it goes badly - NYG football will not be a priority in our household starting week two. If they don't land a QB at the top of the draft, they had better pray one of three things: (1) Daniel Jones becomes Simms 2.0, (2) Drew Lock has a career renaissance, or (3) they get incredibly lucky with 2nd or 3rd round QB. None of these things are likely however. they just won 10 games in 2022 with Jones and he was not Simms 2.0 that year. At least not according to the masses here he wasn't. I guess it can't happen again but last year's first 6 games WILL happen again? IS that it? Daily dose of BBI DJ hysterics. Sure it can happen again with Jones. And he will be under contract in 2024 notwithstanding them drafting another QB (or not). So what's your issue djm?

I don't have any issue.

In comment 16438726 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

Because Ralph is pretty plugged in & I doubt he’s making shit up. I suspect he’s getting nuggets from people inside the building.

I think 2 things can be true - they want another Eli and think “what could have been” while also realizing that it would have happened by now if it was meant to be (injuries, issues on field, etc).

I don’t actually think anyone in the FO thinks Jones = Manning and that’s how this piece was written, that they’d like to approach this like March of 2023 but no longer feel that way. There’s a reason the health was the highlight.

In comment 16439052 djm said:

Quote:

draft the QB. Shit you can trade the Brooklyn bridge, NY pizza and Mara's hedge fund to get the QB for all I care. Just about every NYG fan thinks this way. But we can win games in 2024 with Jones. I saw it happen with this same staff in 2022. Better defense and OL? Sure it can happen. Just get players. The QB will happen sooner than later.

Brooklyn Bridge?

djm hysterics it seems.

In comment 16438731 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

And how they’ve handled him so far. Is it really that far fetched that people in the building still think he’s their guy?

I don’t think anything in sports is far fetched. But I really don’t care what’s said or what these articles say was said anymore. Giants are going to prop their guy up until he’s no longer on the team. It’s as simple as that for me. Anything else is just convincing yourself of whatever your bias fears (both sides) and you are welcome to that but it’s a giant waste of energy to argue about. Recent reports also contradict it so how do you decide which to believe and which to ignore?

In comment 16439052 djm said:

Quote:

draft the QB. Shit you can trade the Brooklyn bridge, NY pizza and Mara's hedge fund to get the QB for all I care. Just about every NYG fan thinks this way. But we can win games in 2024 with Jones. I saw it happen with this same staff in 2022. Better defense and OL? Sure it can happen. Just get players. The QB will happen sooner than later.

You saw it happen in 2022 with BD running a "smoke and mirrors" offense predicated on handing it off to SB or Jones running himself.

That offense will never work again, teams figured out that by preventing Jones from running he can't beat them. Add in that SB is now an Eagle, and who knows what Jones is going to look like after the ACL repair and if his throwing motion is truly F'd up from the neck injuries.

In comment 16438400 Go Terps said:

Quote:

I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix. Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why.

Was Warner watching Maye's video/play from 2022?

There are question marks about Maye's play in 2023, but you can't toss his 2022 play where he was spectacular.

In comment 16439061 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438731 ajr2456 said: Quote: And how they’ve handled him so far. Is it really that far fetched that people in the building still think he’s their guy? I don’t think anything in sports is far fetched. But I really don’t care what’s said or what these articles say was said anymore. Giants are going to prop their guy up until he’s no longer on the team. It’s as simple as that for me. Anything else is just convincing yourself of whatever your bias fears (both sides) and you are welcome to that but it’s a giant waste of energy to argue about. Recent reports also contradict it so how do you decide which to believe and which to ignore?

In comment 16439066 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16438400 Go Terps said: Quote: I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix. Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why. Was Warner watching Maye's video/play from 2022? There are question marks about Maye's play in 2023, but you can't toss his 2022 play where he was spectacular.

2023. There were some accuracy issues. I just watched Warner's video on Daniels. Also some accuracy issues but not as pronounced as Maye.

Schoen isn’t a stupid guy, I’m 99.9% sure he knows what needs to be done and has planned for it thoroughly. So that leaves his boss vehemently disagreeing with him and making him stick with an injured, unspectacular QB just to hopefully not be wrong despite agreeing to an out in the contract he signed off on.

Personally I don’t buy that, and that’s all the reason I need to ignore the noise. If it turns out I’m wrong, that will suck and I will admit it.

In comment 16439075 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 16439066 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 16438400 Go Terps said: Quote: I just watched Kurt Warner spend an hour breaking down Drake Maye film; and I didn't love what I saw (more importantly Warner didn't seem to). I fully accept I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, but I am not seeing how Maye (or McCarthy for that matter) are so far ahead of Penix and Nix. Again, I know I'm not an expert but what I'm seeing doesn't add up to (Maye or McCarthy) = (Penix or Nix) + the draft picks necessary to trade up from 6 to 3. Something about this is not computing for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing Sy's reports (and hopefully Wraner's and O'Sullivan's) to explain why. Was Warner watching Maye's video/play from 2022? There are question marks about Maye's play in 2023, but you can't toss his 2022 play where he was spectacular. 2023. There were some accuracy issues. I just watched Warner's video on Daniels. Also some accuracy issues but not as pronounced as Maye.

not telling either of you how to be fans but i've given up on trying to rank qbs against each other (which I think warner himself said like a few weeks ago?). the teams get it wrong more than half of the time even in the top 10.

with the top 4 this year there is enough to get excited about with all of them. nix/penix less so but still enough. i dont think there's any point in spending time analyzing beyond that, the teams are going to be swayed heavily by however each player "thinks the game" in relation to however the teams themselves "think the game" - all of which we have no way of knowing.

the stakes with a top 10 QB selection are well known and the guys making the picks jobs are on the line so it's very much in their interest to get it right. in this draft there are 4+ teams making the same decisions, some probably coming to different conclusions than others.

daboll has given us enough reasons to be somewhat confident in him doing better than others so im good with whoever he goes in with.

In comment 16439061 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438731 ajr2456 said: Quote: And how they’ve handled him so far. Is it really that far fetched that people in the building still think he’s their guy? I don’t think anything in sports is far fetched. But I really don’t care what’s said or what these articles say was said anymore. Giants are going to prop their guy up until he’s no longer on the team. It’s as simple as that for me. Anything else is just convincing yourself of whatever your bias fears (both sides) and you are welcome to that but it’s a giant waste of energy to argue about. Recent reports also contradict it so how do you decide which to believe and which to ignore?

You say as you argue it. Where did I jump to any conclusions? I literally said IF true in the post.

The reports that contradict it are mostly regarding the injury, so two things can be true. The Giants are done with Jones because of the injuries but some in the building still believe in his talent.

If the second part is true, and again IF, people have a right to be concerned to feel skeptical about the people running things.

is John Mara. But he's letting Schoen do his thing.

that isn’t an argument

if I'm NE.

In comment 16439128 Harvest Blend said:

Quote:

if I'm NE.

Sorry, wrong thread.

just cannot wrap your skulls around the simple fact that the Giants are NOT picking 2nd or 1st in a 2 or even 3 QB draft. They are picking 6th. Let's be fair and say the Giants love at least 2 of them. Even saying they love 3 and would pick any of the 3 at 6 is a stretch but fine, let's say it's 3 QBs.

They aren't getting any of those 3! They pick 6th. You cannot force a team to trade up with you. You cannot force a QB you love to slide to 6.

These takes about Mara this and Mara that all these hot takes on the wasted 2024 season that hasn't even started yet all miss the mark and refuse to acknowledge the 800 LB gorilla in the room. NYG are picking 6th in what many believe is a 3 QB draft.

Not every year is 2018. Not every GM is drafting Barkley over your prized QB prospect. And even then, if the Giants decided to take a QB that year, guess what happens, we take Darnold or Rosen and suck even worse.

If the Giants want one of the big 3, and let's pretend that same guy is also coveted by the 3 teams ahead of them, the only way to get that QB is to trade up. And that team that wants the same QB? Be it NE, Wash or Chicago? Take a guess what they do when the Giants call.

Wellington said so after that 2003 season. Don't believe me? Go look it up.

They still got their QB. They still traded up. How did that happen? It didn't happen just because we wanted it to happen. It took forces of nature we rarely see. It took a consensus #1 overall pick to publicly condemn the team picking 1st. That same player also checked off every box known to man. It took balls of steel from Accorsi to act on those forces and STILL, even with all that happening, the Giants were all but guaranteed to get a QB they liked even if it wasn't Eli because they picked 4th in a 3 QB draft and 2 of the teams ahead of them didn't want any of the QBs, Oakland and zona.

Maybe that's about to happen now. Maybe WASH doesn't want the QB (don't bet on it) and maybe NE doesn't want the QB (don't bet on it) and maybe the Giants like the 2nd or 3rd best rated QB and he falls to 6 or they can trade up with one of those 2 teams.

Don't bet on it. Hope for the best, it's only March and we didn't start to hear shit about Eli and the Chargers until April, if memory serves.

Every day some rumor surfaces and half this place breaks out the pitchforks and acts like Jones will be ruining xmas until 2030.

In comment 16439123 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

that isn’t an argument

Complaining a better description?

“If this line of thinking is true it’s concerning” is jumping to conclusions or an outrageous statement.

In comment 16439188 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16439123 UConn4523 said: Quote: that isn’t an argument Complaining a better description?

Whatever helps you keep this conversation going.

.

Saying things like "The Giants are done with Daniel Jones" when we haven't gotten through the draft is pretty senseless.

In comment 16439015 nygiantfan said:

Quote:

In comment 16438936 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: I don't see much of a chance Nix lasts to the 2nd. He's going to the Broncos or Patriots after a trade down imo. Pennix won't last to the 2nd either I don't think. Anything substantive that helps support this or just pure opinion?

Just a gut feeling and various reports on teams interest. The Seahawks, Broncos, Vikings, Patriots if they trade down, Raiders, and then others trading back into rd1 potentially. Maybe Pennix lasts into rd2 due to injury, but Nix no chance imo.

We all have our opinions on what we think Schoen and Daboll may do or what their specific needs would be.

They have a premium pick in a good QB class. Whether they choose to trade up or stay put remains to be seen.

It may cost a ton to do so, it might also be worthwhile to trade back a few spots.

What is obvious is that the Giants need to get better in a lot of facets.