Nice try! Justify someone not like JJ because they like DJ. Fluid thought process! Those are clearly mutually exclusive. Check my posts. I want maye or Caleb if not I would take rattler round 3. Build out the roster more and then find a stop gap vet next year. I’m not forcing JJ because I want a qb like all of you falling for the media nonsense. Just like penix was a lock to top 5 and may be qb2 til he shat the bed vs Michigan.
Media nonsense? JJ was barely a blip on the media's radar up until about 6-7 weeks ago, then they started hearing what the NFL people actually think of him, hence the noise and shooting up boards.
You serious? He’s been talked about before the season began. Did you not watch college football at all or follow it even a little? He’s been discussed non stop the entire season
He was a 5 star QB recruit, he played as a FR, started as a SO, and won a national championship as a true JR. He has been known all year, talked about all year, in fact half way through the year he was being talk very highly until Michigan ran the ball 34 straight times and BBI decided he wasn't any good because they didn't throw. I have had JJM as my #4 all year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So one of this guys main arguments
Nice try! Justify someone not like JJ because they like DJ. Fluid thought process! Those are clearly mutually exclusive. Check my posts. I want maye or Caleb if not I would take rattler round 3. Build out the roster more and then find a stop gap vet next year. I’m not forcing JJ because I want a qb like all of you falling for the media nonsense. Just like penix was a lock to top 5 and may be qb2 til he shat the bed vs Michigan.
Media nonsense? JJ was barely a blip on the media's radar up until about 6-7 weeks ago, then they started hearing what the NFL people actually think of him, hence the noise and shooting up boards.
You serious? He’s been talked about before the season began. Did you not watch college football at all or follow it even a little? He’s been discussed non stop the entire season
He was a 5 star QB recruit, he played as a FR, started as a SO, and won a national championship as a true JR. He has been known all year, talked about all year, in fact half way through the year he was being talk very highly until Michigan ran the ball 34 straight times and BBI decided he wasn't any good because they didn't throw. I have had JJM as my #4 all year.
I should have clarified and added more context, barely a blip in the sense of being a top 10 pick. Most, if not all, considered him a day 2 pick if he came out. He was obviously known, but no one was talking about him as a top 10 pick.
RE: RE: RE: RE: So one of this guys main arguments
is that JJ doesn't process the field well or go through progressions well in the pocket, yet one of the main things we've been hearing about him is that he has elite processing skills and wowed at least 1-2 teams (one of them believed to be NYG I think) on the board at the combine... I'll believe this guy when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert.
Media. Media. Media.
DJD alert (Daniel Jones Disciple)
Nice try! Justify someone not like JJ because they like DJ. Fluid thought process! Those are clearly mutually exclusive. Check my posts. I want maye or Caleb if not I would take rattler round 3. Build out the roster more and then find a stop gap vet next year. I’m not forcing JJ because I want a qb like all of you falling for the media nonsense. Just like penix was a lock to top 5 and may be qb2 til he shat the bed vs Michigan.
Can you show me 1 person that had Penix top 5 prior to the Michigan game? I don't remember seeing that.
JJ McCarthy isn't media nonsense. If anything the media is low on him. It's NFL teams that are extremely high on him.
is that JJ doesn't process the field well or go through progressions well in the pocket, yet one of the main things we've been hearing about him is that he has elite processing skills and wowed at least 1-2 teams (one of them believed to be NYG I think) on the board at the combine... I'll believe this guy when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert.
He's not the only one with that opinion, depending on who you read JJ has very mixed reviews. NFL.coms prospect profile lists as one of JJ's weaknesses "Sluggish getting through progressions and can get stuck on first read". NFL.Com: J.J. MCCARTHY draft profile - ( New Window )
Nice try! Justify someone not like JJ because they like DJ. Fluid thought process! Those are clearly mutually exclusive. Check my posts. I want maye or Caleb if not I would take rattler round 3. Build out the roster more and then find a stop gap vet next year. I’m not forcing JJ because I want a qb like all of you falling for the media nonsense. Just like penix was a lock to top 5 and may be qb2 til he shat the bed vs Michigan.
Media nonsense? JJ was barely a blip on the media's radar up until about 6-7 weeks ago, then they started hearing what the NFL people actually think of him, hence the noise and shooting up boards.
You serious? He’s been talked about before the season began. Did you not watch college football at all or follow it even a little? He’s been discussed non stop the entire season
He was a 5 star QB recruit, he played as a FR, started as a SO, and won a national championship as a true JR. He has been known all year, talked about all year, in fact half way through the year he was being talk very highly until Michigan ran the ball 34 straight times and BBI decided he wasn't any good because they didn't throw. I have had JJM as my #4 all year.
I should have clarified and added more context, barely a blip in the sense of being a top 10 pick. Most, if not all, considered him a day 2 pick if he came out. He was obviously known, but no one was talking about him as a top 10 pick.
That is because no one expected 4 QBs to go top 10. People were thinking for sure Caleb and Maye... Then Daniels played so well people were like damn ok 3 QBs top 10. Then they were like damn ok looks like JJM could go top 10 also. You know how rare it is for 4 QBs to go top 10. It is why people had Penix and Nix as second rounders for so long and now we could have an insane 6 QBs in round 1. How many times has that happened? It isn't necessarily that he isn't worth a top 10, but that people wouldn't put a guy in the top 10 if they didn't think they would be drafted in the top 10. Now 4 QBs might go in the top 6 picks. Did he get better or do they realize the talent is so good 4 of the 6 top QBs are going top 10 and the other two will probably be in the first as well.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So one of this guys main arguments
Nice try! Justify someone not like JJ because they like DJ. Fluid thought process! Those are clearly mutually exclusive. Check my posts. I want maye or Caleb if not I would take rattler round 3. Build out the roster more and then find a stop gap vet next year. I’m not forcing JJ because I want a qb like all of you falling for the media nonsense. Just like penix was a lock to top 5 and may be qb2 til he shat the bed vs Michigan.
Media nonsense? JJ was barely a blip on the media's radar up until about 6-7 weeks ago, then they started hearing what the NFL people actually think of him, hence the noise and shooting up boards.
You serious? He’s been talked about before the season began. Did you not watch college football at all or follow it even a little? He’s been discussed non stop the entire season
He was a 5 star QB recruit, he played as a FR, started as a SO, and won a national championship as a true JR. He has been known all year, talked about all year, in fact half way through the year he was being talk very highly until Michigan ran the ball 34 straight times and BBI decided he wasn't any good because they didn't throw. I have had JJM as my #4 all year.
Thank you. I’m not saying he’s bad. He’s a massive gamble more so than any other qb. He can go the Justin Herbert route which was an underutilized college qb or he is what he is. Hidden behind a great team and the play action passing game and talent around him helped tremendously. He was not asked at any point to be the alpha on the team. He was more game manager than relied on. We can go back and forth til the draft but I don’t beleive he’ll go in the top 10. I also have said many times he’s my number 3 behind Caleb and Maye. At 6 if JJ is on the board I pass for the stud WR, Nabers, Rome or MHJ.
Thank you. I’m not saying he’s bad. He’s a massive gamble more so than any other qb. He can go the Justin Herbert route which was an underutilized college qb or he is what he is. Hidden behind a great team and the play action passing game and talent around him helped tremendously. He was not asked at any point to be the alpha on the team. He was more game manager than relied on. We can go back and forth til the draft but I don’t beleive he’ll go in the top 10. I also have said many times he’s my number 3 behind Caleb and Maye. At 6 if JJ is on the board I pass for the stud WR, Nabers, Rome or MHJ.
That isn't exactly right though. The problem with that statement is that in first halves of games JJM is up there in many passing stat categories with all the other QBs, but in the second half with a big lead, a good running game, and strong defense Michigan ran out of the clock and didn't need to pass. How do you think Michigan got all those leads. JJM leading them down the field in the first half.
You look at a team like Oregon and they don't do sit on leads and get the guaranteed W... They keep trying to score to make blowouts. In fact he was taken out of games in the 3rd and 4th quarter quite a bit.
is that JJ doesn't process the field well or go through progressions well in the pocket, yet one of the main things we've been hearing about him is that he has elite processing skills and wowed at least 1-2 teams (one of them believed to be NYG I think) on the board at the combine... I'll believe this guy when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert.
Some of this ties into the complaints I heard about him based on the fact that he had to throw the ball only barely more than 22 times per game this season. He didn't have to do it in college so the question is can he do it in the NFL. It requires investigation regarding whether the play calling was by Harbaugh's design (after all he had a very run heavy Defense first scheme in SF - remember the NFC Conference Championship Game against us where it took until the 4th Quarter for Alex Smith to complete a pass to a WR) or because they were covering up some limitation of McCarthy.
Personally I believe it was by design, if you have the horses to shorten the game with a dominating run game and defense, use them. As far as covering up limitations for McCarthy, didn't he have some of the best numbers on 3rd and 4th down? I don't have them right in front of me at the moment, but believe he averaged over 9 YPA on those downs. Check the Sy on JJ vs Maye thread, believe it's covered in there. To me it appeared they leaned on when needed. Like others have said here, I wasn't big on JJ until I watched and read more myself, like Sy as well.
I am not saying it is one versus the other. It is just that when you push those who talk about McCarthy making progressions they inevitably fall back on the number of passes thrown in 2023.
With Michigan the run game was the catalyst. He fed off the run game. Without that I’m not sure what he is. It’s very hard to project what he will be. That is the scary part and I’ll stand by it. He won’t go top 10
I commented on one of the college threads this guy is not going in the 2nd/3rd round. Nice add on comments from Hard Truth.
Is there something wrong with building the offense off the run game primarily with the RB's?
Be great for the Giants to emphasize this again. Maybe they will start winning more games and be able to compete better in the playoffs. When you can't run that time of year its tough sledding.
I commented on one of the college threads this guy is not going in the 2nd/3rd round. Nice add on comments from Hard Truth.
Is there something wrong with building the offense off the run game primarily with the RB's?
Be great for the Giants to emphasize this again. Maybe they will start winning more games and be able to compete better in the playoffs. When you can't run that time of year its tough sledding.
Good eye, because I was focused on Jayden Daniels so much that I neglected to take notice of JJ's game. I just shrugged him off as not worthy due to stats. The Alabama game perked my interest and I started a deep dive of studying him at the end of January.
The reason I shared this video is because it seemed to bring a point of view many have on BBI, which is they JJM is not worth a top 10 pick.
I kind of believe his upside and his youth make him worthy. As Amoft has stated he was a 5 star recruit and played as a freshmen at UM while starting as a sophomore and junior culminating in a National Championship. He is an athlete.
Bottom line: he checks many boxes for me, however I would hope he sits for a year and learns as opposed to getting thrown into the fire, if he becomes a Giant.
seemed pretty balanced. Credits McCarthy for his toughness and success dealing with pressure.
And I agree that McCarthy, despite his high completion%, seems to miss a fair number of easy completions and does not impress at all throwing outside the numbers.
I was surprised, however, when the host mentioned he was not impressed with McCarthy's arm strength. Haven't heard that conclusion.
Additionally, I was surprised it wasn't mentioned that McCarthy does not show a lot of throwing variations with his ball speed and trajectory. It's like the same throw all the time.
And what about his long windup where it looks like he's throwing from rightfield trying to get the runner going home.
There is nothing economical or quick about that release.
So, I continue to see a fairly athletic game manager with a good arm, but nothing very dynamic.
JJ seems to be the most polarizing prospect. A lot of people love him & others can't believe he's going in the first. I guess we'll find out in the coming years which side was right.
I wouldn't want Daniels. I saw him a few times when he was with ASU and then again at LSU. I don't think his running is going to translate like his last college season. Not a great arm and too much drifting in the pocket. Tremendous skill players and a really good OL his season year. SECW D is not what it used to be. We'll see.
The age is big deal imv. Who was looking at Daniels and Nix after year three as a top 10 QB? I doubt many.
The reason I shared this video is because it seemed to bring a point of view many have on BBI, which is they JJM is not worth a top 10 pick.
I kind of believe his upside and his youth make him worthy. As Amoft has stated he was a 5 star recruit and played as a freshmen at UM while starting as a sophomore and junior culminating in a National Championship. He is an athlete.
Bottom line: he checks many boxes for me, however I would hope he sits for a year and learns as opposed to getting thrown into the fire, if he becomes a Giant.
Same with Maye, both of them would benefit from sitting for a half a year to a year. Maye needs work on his footwork and pocket presence in relation to how his mind and mechanics operate under pressure specifically; JJ needs work on his touch, footwork and release (I do think he can learn to throw with more efficient motion, in fact Josh Allen did just this when he took a massive step in evolving his game).
Here's a link to Allen describing how he went from a big over the top throwing motion to more of a tight rotation which improved his game drastically:
seemed pretty balanced. Credits McCarthy for his toughness and success dealing with pressure.
And I agree that McCarthy, despite his high completion%, seems to miss a fair number of easy completions and does not impress at all throwing outside the numbers.
I was surprised, however, when the host mentioned he was not impressed with McCarthy's arm strength. Haven't heard that conclusion.
Additionally, I was surprised it wasn't mentioned that McCarthy does not show a lot of throwing variations with his ball speed and trajectory. It's like the same throw all the time.
And what about his long windup where it looks like he's throwing from rightfield trying to get the runner going home.
There is nothing economical or quick about that release.
So, I continue to see a fairly athletic game manager with a good arm, but nothing very dynamic.
Good comments bw. Hate the long windup, a lot of non anticipating, non-leading throws and it seems he really relied upon that short crosser (at least in the video).
Give JJ some credit though as even though back 7 defenders were staring right at him a lot in that film, he got the passes in somehow...Luck of the Irish? :-)
I wouldn't want Daniels. I saw him a few times when he was with ASU and then again at LSU. I don't think his running is going to translate like his last college season. Not a great arm and too much drifting in the pocket. Tremendous skill players and a really good OL his season year. SECW D is not what it used to be. We'll see.
The age is big deal imv. Who was looking at Daniels and Nix after year three as a top 10 QB? I doubt many.
Since we have virtually no chance at him I began to look at his game with a critical eye looking for flaws to make myself feel better. I agree that his running won't translate as well, his arm is good enough but not great, he has a great release and great touch, but you don't see him gunning it in tight coverage over the middle or on the sidelines, he's also thin of course. I still like him a lot, but I see other qbs with ceilings just as high or higher.
I still think he will do very well in the pros. I'm with you on JJM though, I've got a strong feeling he will be able to adapt and evolve his game in the NFL given time. I think he has the part you can't teach which is what he's got between the ears. That's a gut feeling backed by some research and analysis, but still just a strong gut feeling ultimately.
It would be typical of our past 10 years of bad luck/utter failure to trade a king's ransom for Drake Maye leaving the Pats with all that we traded and JJM only for JJM to turn into the true Franchise QB while we are left with a guy hoped to be another Eli clone.
JJ seems to be the most polarizing prospect. A lot of people love him & others can't believe he's going in the first. I guess we'll find out in the coming years which side was right.
Once the season ended, I thought for sure Daniels would be the most polarizing player. His body type being the focal point.
But McCarthy has lapped him a few times since he declared.
The reason I shared this video is because it seemed to bring a point of view many have on BBI, which is they JJM is not worth a top 10 pick.
I kind of believe his upside and his youth make him worthy. As Amoft has stated he was a 5 star recruit and played as a freshmen at UM while starting as a sophomore and junior culminating in a National Championship. He is an athlete.
Bottom line: he checks many boxes for me, however I would hope he sits for a year and learns as opposed to getting thrown into the fire, if he becomes a Giant.
Same with Maye, both of them would benefit from sitting for a half a year to a year. Maye needs work on his footwork and pocket presence in relation to how his mind and mechanics operate under pressure specifically; JJ needs work on his touch, footwork and release (I do think he can learn to throw with more efficient motion, in fact Josh Allen did just this when he took a massive step in evolving his game).
Here's a link to Allen describing how he went from a big over the top throwing motion to more of a tight rotation which improved his game drastically:
Allen Discusses Change in Throwing Motion with Chris Simms - ( New Window )
Thanks for sharing that clip. I love Josh Allen coming out in 2018 and was the only QB I really liked. I always said, you can’t coach 6’5” 250 lbs and a rocket arm.
I think JJM and Maye can be worked with to improve those mechanics. JJ’s feet are pretty good in the pocket and on the run. He has arm strength so I am not sure where the guy in the video says he doesn’t lol.
It would be typical of our past 10 years of bad luck/utter failure to trade a king's ransom for Drake Maye leaving the Pats with all that we traded and JJM only for JJM to turn into the true Franchise QB while we are left with a guy hoped to be another Eli clone.
Did you write that with a straight face? Maye may have a similar personality to Eli, but that's where the comp stops. Maye has a better arm, is more mobile, is a better athlete, and he is better off platform.
It would be typical of our past 10 years of bad luck/utter failure to trade a king's ransom for Drake Maye leaving the Pats with all that we traded and JJM only for JJM to turn into the true Franchise QB while we are left with a guy hoped to be another Eli clone.
Did you write that with a straight face? Maye may have a similar personality to Eli, but that's where the comp stops. Maye has a better arm, is more mobile, is a better athlete, and he is better off platform.
Absolutely he is, I was referring more to the physical specimens and southern boy thing. I like Maye a lot too, don't get me wrong. My concern is if he had it between the ears as evinced by his play under pressure and what I see on tale. I don't feel solid about that part. Other than that I think he is AAA. He makes throws no one else in this draft can make and he is Josh Allen level of athleticism with big arm combination. Both JJM and Maye would excite me a lot, I'd prefer to not trade up myself but I'd be thrilled still if SchDabka n Co felt conviction to the point of paying a king's ransom for pick 3.
Did you watch the videos on Josh Allen's improved throwing motion? It's actually uncanny how similar that is to what Daboll would want to do with JJM, just as he did with Allen. Makes me wonder if perhaps JJM is the guy they are gunning for?
who has no coaching or scouting experience because he watched some clips of McCarthy over an NFL front office, scouts, coaches etc that have watched every game, every throw, seen him live, interviews, combine, pro day etc??
Brilliant.
Look, I get it. We are fans. We eat all this sh#t up. We watch/read NFL/Giants stuff 24/7 but let’s be honest. Most of these guys are fanboys. Skinner, Falato, etc. watch some tape, get some all 22 footage and break it down. It’s fun to watch but they aren’t pro scouts or coaches. But none of them know how to coach, scout or have any professional knowledge. I give them props, they have a following, may make some money doing it from social media… all the power to them. But take it at face value.
Trying to analyze a QB is extremely difficult. You don’t know the play call. You don’t know if the WRs ran the wrong route or if the play/routes/progression changes what the defense is doing. NFL staffs know. None of us do.
And you'll find nearly an equal amount of experts on either side.
It ranges from best QB in the draft to, "I wouldn't touch him in the first round" for all of them.
Draft experts as well as scouts and GMs are consistently wrong in their QB evaluations. So I'm not going to place much value in what one guy says... no matter who he is.
McCarthy threw 61 mph which is 3rd highest ever at Combine (fyi Jones threw 54 mph)
He also threw it over 60 yards in the air
That should answer questions about his arm strength
I dot think any questions arm strength. He doesn’t have a feel as far as arm talent. Every ball he throws is a rocket. He doesn’t have touch. You watcu Caleb Williams that is a special arm as far as velocity and touch. To me, JJ has velocity he lacks polish
It would be typical of our past 10 years of bad luck/utter failure to trade a king's ransom for Drake Maye leaving the Pats with all that we traded and JJM only for JJM to turn into the true Franchise QB while we are left with a guy hoped to be another Eli clone.
Did you write that with a straight face? Maye may have a similar personality to Eli, but that's where the comp stops. Maye has a better arm, is more mobile, is a better athlete, and he is better off platform.
OK, when he wins 2 SBs and is SB MVP twice, then you can make that comparison.
His rise up the board has occurred after he took his last snap at Michigan.
That doesn't mean he won't be good. I'd just be wary that we're collectively taking ourselves into him.
The buzz is coming off people thinking he was staying at Michigan and then taking a closer look at his film when he declared. And it’s coming from scouts. Not the Mel Kipers.
McCarthy threw 61 mph which is 3rd highest ever at Combine (fyi Jones threw 54 mph)
He also threw it over 60 yards in the air
That should answer questions about his arm strength
I dot think any questions arm strength. He doesn’t have a feel as far as arm talent. Every ball he throws is a rocket. He doesn’t have touch. You watcu Caleb Williams that is a special arm as far as velocity and touch. To me, JJ has velocity he lacks polish
So did Josh Allen, he completely changed his throwing motion and honed it in
Do you deny the simple fact?
He knew the other teams plays..
Once that ended...meh!
You mean beating 4 top 7 teams???
Remind me of his #s vs those teams..
Just need one. See link.
Also, the throwing motion can and will be worked on. It doesn't hinder his ability or limit him as a passer. I trust his arm in the pros and his athletic ability is top notch, too. Game manager stuff is just ridiculous. Maye needs work, too, and Daniels has the weakest arm of the top 4.
Do you deny the simple fact?
He knew the other teams plays..
Once that ended...meh!
You mean beating 4 top 7 teams???
Remind me of his #s vs those teams..
Just need one. See link.
Also, the throwing motion can and will be worked on. It doesn't hinder his ability or limit him as a passer. I trust his arm in the pros and his athletic ability is top notch, too. Game manager stuff is just ridiculous. Maye needs work, too, and Daniels has the weakest arm of the top 4. https://www.espn.com/college-football/boxscore/_/gameId/401551786 - ( New Window )
I think Maye needs the most work of the big 4 myself
1. Caleb Williams, USC
Tier Two — In Other Years
2. Jayden Daniels, LSU
Tier Three — Franchise Starting QB
3. Bo Nix, Oregon
4. Michael Penix Jr., Washington
5. J.J. McCarthy, Michigan
Tier Four — Talented Project
6. Drake Maye, UNC
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In comment 16439396 Tuckrule said:
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Nice try! Justify someone not like JJ because they like DJ. Fluid thought process! Those are clearly mutually exclusive. Check my posts. I want maye or Caleb if not I would take rattler round 3. Build out the roster more and then find a stop gap vet next year. I’m not forcing JJ because I want a qb like all of you falling for the media nonsense. Just like penix was a lock to top 5 and may be qb2 til he shat the bed vs Michigan.
Media nonsense? JJ was barely a blip on the media's radar up until about 6-7 weeks ago, then they started hearing what the NFL people actually think of him, hence the noise and shooting up boards.
You serious? He’s been talked about before the season began. Did you not watch college football at all or follow it even a little? He’s been discussed non stop the entire season
He was a 5 star QB recruit, he played as a FR, started as a SO, and won a national championship as a true JR. He has been known all year, talked about all year, in fact half way through the year he was being talk very highly until Michigan ran the ball 34 straight times and BBI decided he wasn't any good because they didn't throw. I have had JJM as my #4 all year.
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In comment 16439404 bigblue5611 said:
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In comment 16439396 Tuckrule said:
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Nice try! Justify someone not like JJ because they like DJ. Fluid thought process! Those are clearly mutually exclusive. Check my posts. I want maye or Caleb if not I would take rattler round 3. Build out the roster more and then find a stop gap vet next year. I’m not forcing JJ because I want a qb like all of you falling for the media nonsense. Just like penix was a lock to top 5 and may be qb2 til he shat the bed vs Michigan.
Media nonsense? JJ was barely a blip on the media's radar up until about 6-7 weeks ago, then they started hearing what the NFL people actually think of him, hence the noise and shooting up boards.
You serious? He’s been talked about before the season began. Did you not watch college football at all or follow it even a little? He’s been discussed non stop the entire season
He was a 5 star QB recruit, he played as a FR, started as a SO, and won a national championship as a true JR. He has been known all year, talked about all year, in fact half way through the year he was being talk very highly until Michigan ran the ball 34 straight times and BBI decided he wasn't any good because they didn't throw. I have had JJM as my #4 all year.
I should have clarified and added more context, barely a blip in the sense of being a top 10 pick. Most, if not all, considered him a day 2 pick if he came out. He was obviously known, but no one was talking about him as a top 10 pick.
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In comment 16439352 Tuckrule said:
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In comment 16439309 bigblue5611 said:
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is that JJ doesn't process the field well or go through progressions well in the pocket, yet one of the main things we've been hearing about him is that he has elite processing skills and wowed at least 1-2 teams (one of them believed to be NYG I think) on the board at the combine... I'll believe this guy when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert.
Media. Media. Media.
DJD alert (Daniel Jones Disciple)
Nice try! Justify someone not like JJ because they like DJ. Fluid thought process! Those are clearly mutually exclusive. Check my posts. I want maye or Caleb if not I would take rattler round 3. Build out the roster more and then find a stop gap vet next year. I’m not forcing JJ because I want a qb like all of you falling for the media nonsense. Just like penix was a lock to top 5 and may be qb2 til he shat the bed vs Michigan.
Can you show me 1 person that had Penix top 5 prior to the Michigan game? I don't remember seeing that.
JJ McCarthy isn't media nonsense. If anything the media is low on him. It's NFL teams that are extremely high on him.
NFL.Com: J.J. MCCARTHY draft profile - ( New Window )
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In comment 16439415 Tuckrule said:
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In comment 16439404 bigblue5611 said:
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In comment 16439396 Tuckrule said:
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Nice try! Justify someone not like JJ because they like DJ. Fluid thought process! Those are clearly mutually exclusive. Check my posts. I want maye or Caleb if not I would take rattler round 3. Build out the roster more and then find a stop gap vet next year. I’m not forcing JJ because I want a qb like all of you falling for the media nonsense. Just like penix was a lock to top 5 and may be qb2 til he shat the bed vs Michigan.
Media nonsense? JJ was barely a blip on the media's radar up until about 6-7 weeks ago, then they started hearing what the NFL people actually think of him, hence the noise and shooting up boards.
You serious? He’s been talked about before the season began. Did you not watch college football at all or follow it even a little? He’s been discussed non stop the entire season
He was a 5 star QB recruit, he played as a FR, started as a SO, and won a national championship as a true JR. He has been known all year, talked about all year, in fact half way through the year he was being talk very highly until Michigan ran the ball 34 straight times and BBI decided he wasn't any good because they didn't throw. I have had JJM as my #4 all year.
I should have clarified and added more context, barely a blip in the sense of being a top 10 pick. Most, if not all, considered him a day 2 pick if he came out. He was obviously known, but no one was talking about him as a top 10 pick.
That is because no one expected 4 QBs to go top 10. People were thinking for sure Caleb and Maye... Then Daniels played so well people were like damn ok 3 QBs top 10. Then they were like damn ok looks like JJM could go top 10 also. You know how rare it is for 4 QBs to go top 10. It is why people had Penix and Nix as second rounders for so long and now we could have an insane 6 QBs in round 1. How many times has that happened? It isn't necessarily that he isn't worth a top 10, but that people wouldn't put a guy in the top 10 if they didn't think they would be drafted in the top 10. Now 4 QBs might go in the top 6 picks. Did he get better or do they realize the talent is so good 4 of the 6 top QBs are going top 10 and the other two will probably be in the first as well.
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In comment 16439404 bigblue5611 said:
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In comment 16439396 Tuckrule said:
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Nice try! Justify someone not like JJ because they like DJ. Fluid thought process! Those are clearly mutually exclusive. Check my posts. I want maye or Caleb if not I would take rattler round 3. Build out the roster more and then find a stop gap vet next year. I’m not forcing JJ because I want a qb like all of you falling for the media nonsense. Just like penix was a lock to top 5 and may be qb2 til he shat the bed vs Michigan.
Media nonsense? JJ was barely a blip on the media's radar up until about 6-7 weeks ago, then they started hearing what the NFL people actually think of him, hence the noise and shooting up boards.
You serious? He’s been talked about before the season began. Did you not watch college football at all or follow it even a little? He’s been discussed non stop the entire season
He was a 5 star QB recruit, he played as a FR, started as a SO, and won a national championship as a true JR. He has been known all year, talked about all year, in fact half way through the year he was being talk very highly until Michigan ran the ball 34 straight times and BBI decided he wasn't any good because they didn't throw. I have had JJM as my #4 all year.
Thank you. I’m not saying he’s bad. He’s a massive gamble more so than any other qb. He can go the Justin Herbert route which was an underutilized college qb or he is what he is. Hidden behind a great team and the play action passing game and talent around him helped tremendously. He was not asked at any point to be the alpha on the team. He was more game manager than relied on. We can go back and forth til the draft but I don’t beleive he’ll go in the top 10. I also have said many times he’s my number 3 behind Caleb and Maye. At 6 if JJ is on the board I pass for the stud WR, Nabers, Rome or MHJ.
Thank you. I’m not saying he’s bad. He’s a massive gamble more so than any other qb. He can go the Justin Herbert route which was an underutilized college qb or he is what he is. Hidden behind a great team and the play action passing game and talent around him helped tremendously. He was not asked at any point to be the alpha on the team. He was more game manager than relied on. We can go back and forth til the draft but I don’t beleive he’ll go in the top 10. I also have said many times he’s my number 3 behind Caleb and Maye. At 6 if JJ is on the board I pass for the stud WR, Nabers, Rome or MHJ.
That isn't exactly right though. The problem with that statement is that in first halves of games JJM is up there in many passing stat categories with all the other QBs, but in the second half with a big lead, a good running game, and strong defense Michigan ran out of the clock and didn't need to pass. How do you think Michigan got all those leads. JJM leading them down the field in the first half.
You look at a team like Oregon and they don't do sit on leads and get the guaranteed W... They keep trying to score to make blowouts. In fact he was taken out of games in the 3rd and 4th quarter quite a bit.
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In comment 16439309 bigblue5611 said:
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is that JJ doesn't process the field well or go through progressions well in the pocket, yet one of the main things we've been hearing about him is that he has elite processing skills and wowed at least 1-2 teams (one of them believed to be NYG I think) on the board at the combine... I'll believe this guy when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert.
Some of this ties into the complaints I heard about him based on the fact that he had to throw the ball only barely more than 22 times per game this season. He didn't have to do it in college so the question is can he do it in the NFL. It requires investigation regarding whether the play calling was by Harbaugh's design (after all he had a very run heavy Defense first scheme in SF - remember the NFC Conference Championship Game against us where it took until the 4th Quarter for Alex Smith to complete a pass to a WR) or because they were covering up some limitation of McCarthy.
Personally I believe it was by design, if you have the horses to shorten the game with a dominating run game and defense, use them. As far as covering up limitations for McCarthy, didn't he have some of the best numbers on 3rd and 4th down? I don't have them right in front of me at the moment, but believe he averaged over 9 YPA on those downs. Check the Sy on JJ vs Maye thread, believe it's covered in there. To me it appeared they leaned on when needed. Like others have said here, I wasn't big on JJ until I watched and read more myself, like Sy as well.
I am not saying it is one versus the other. It is just that when you push those who talk about McCarthy making progressions they inevitably fall back on the number of passes thrown in 2023.
Well, they're 0 for 1 in that department for us.
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Schoen's hands. If him and Daboll don't know how to pick a QB we're f'ed for the next few years, regardless
Well, they're 0 for 1 in that department for us.
yep, and they're never gonna have a chance at 0 for 3. Two strikes and yer out
Is there something wrong with building the offense off the run game primarily with the RB's?
Be great for the Giants to emphasize this again. Maybe they will start winning more games and be able to compete better in the playoffs. When you can't run that time of year its tough sledding.
Is there something wrong with building the offense off the run game primarily with the RB's?
Be great for the Giants to emphasize this again. Maybe they will start winning more games and be able to compete better in the playoffs. When you can't run that time of year its tough sledding.
Good eye, because I was focused on Jayden Daniels so much that I neglected to take notice of JJ's game. I just shrugged him off as not worthy due to stats. The Alabama game perked my interest and I started a deep dive of studying him at the end of January.
I kind of believe his upside and his youth make him worthy. As Amoft has stated he was a 5 star recruit and played as a freshmen at UM while starting as a sophomore and junior culminating in a National Championship. He is an athlete.
Bottom line: he checks many boxes for me, however I would hope he sits for a year and learns as opposed to getting thrown into the fire, if he becomes a Giant.
And I agree that McCarthy, despite his high completion%, seems to miss a fair number of easy completions and does not impress at all throwing outside the numbers.
I was surprised, however, when the host mentioned he was not impressed with McCarthy's arm strength. Haven't heard that conclusion.
Additionally, I was surprised it wasn't mentioned that McCarthy does not show a lot of throwing variations with his ball speed and trajectory. It's like the same throw all the time.
And what about his long windup where it looks like he's throwing from rightfield trying to get the runner going home.
There is nothing economical or quick about that release.
So, I continue to see a fairly athletic game manager with a good arm, but nothing very dynamic.
The age is big deal imv. Who was looking at Daniels and Nix after year three as a top 10 QB? I doubt many.
I kind of believe his upside and his youth make him worthy. As Amoft has stated he was a 5 star recruit and played as a freshmen at UM while starting as a sophomore and junior culminating in a National Championship. He is an athlete.
Bottom line: he checks many boxes for me, however I would hope he sits for a year and learns as opposed to getting thrown into the fire, if he becomes a Giant.
Same with Maye, both of them would benefit from sitting for a half a year to a year. Maye needs work on his footwork and pocket presence in relation to how his mind and mechanics operate under pressure specifically; JJ needs work on his touch, footwork and release (I do think he can learn to throw with more efficient motion, in fact Josh Allen did just this when he took a massive step in evolving his game).
Here's a link to Allen describing how he went from a big over the top throwing motion to more of a tight rotation which improved his game drastically:
Allen Discusses Change in Throwing Motion with Chris Simms - ( New Window )
And I agree that McCarthy, despite his high completion%, seems to miss a fair number of easy completions and does not impress at all throwing outside the numbers.
I was surprised, however, when the host mentioned he was not impressed with McCarthy's arm strength. Haven't heard that conclusion.
Additionally, I was surprised it wasn't mentioned that McCarthy does not show a lot of throwing variations with his ball speed and trajectory. It's like the same throw all the time.
And what about his long windup where it looks like he's throwing from rightfield trying to get the runner going home.
There is nothing economical or quick about that release.
So, I continue to see a fairly athletic game manager with a good arm, but nothing very dynamic.
Good comments bw. Hate the long windup, a lot of non anticipating, non-leading throws and it seems he really relied upon that short crosser (at least in the video).
Give JJ some credit though as even though back 7 defenders were staring right at him a lot in that film, he got the passes in somehow...Luck of the Irish? :-)
The age is big deal imv. Who was looking at Daniels and Nix after year three as a top 10 QB? I doubt many.
Since we have virtually no chance at him I began to look at his game with a critical eye looking for flaws to make myself feel better. I agree that his running won't translate as well, his arm is good enough but not great, he has a great release and great touch, but you don't see him gunning it in tight coverage over the middle or on the sidelines, he's also thin of course. I still like him a lot, but I see other qbs with ceilings just as high or higher.
I still think he will do very well in the pros. I'm with you on JJM though, I've got a strong feeling he will be able to adapt and evolve his game in the NFL given time. I think he has the part you can't teach which is what he's got between the ears. That's a gut feeling backed by some research and analysis, but still just a strong gut feeling ultimately.
It would be typical of our past 10 years of bad luck/utter failure to trade a king's ransom for Drake Maye leaving the Pats with all that we traded and JJM only for JJM to turn into the true Franchise QB while we are left with a guy hoped to be another Eli clone.
Once the season ended, I thought for sure Daniels would be the most polarizing player. His body type being the focal point.
But McCarthy has lapped him a few times since he declared.
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The reason I shared this video is because it seemed to bring a point of view many have on BBI, which is they JJM is not worth a top 10 pick.
I kind of believe his upside and his youth make him worthy. As Amoft has stated he was a 5 star recruit and played as a freshmen at UM while starting as a sophomore and junior culminating in a National Championship. He is an athlete.
Bottom line: he checks many boxes for me, however I would hope he sits for a year and learns as opposed to getting thrown into the fire, if he becomes a Giant.
Same with Maye, both of them would benefit from sitting for a half a year to a year. Maye needs work on his footwork and pocket presence in relation to how his mind and mechanics operate under pressure specifically; JJ needs work on his touch, footwork and release (I do think he can learn to throw with more efficient motion, in fact Josh Allen did just this when he took a massive step in evolving his game).
Here's a link to Allen describing how he went from a big over the top throwing motion to more of a tight rotation which improved his game drastically:
Allen Discusses Change in Throwing Motion with Chris Simms - ( New Window )
Thanks for sharing that clip. I love Josh Allen coming out in 2018 and was the only QB I really liked. I always said, you can’t coach 6’5” 250 lbs and a rocket arm.
I think JJM and Maye can be worked with to improve those mechanics. JJ’s feet are pretty good in the pocket and on the run. He has arm strength so I am not sure where the guy in the video says he doesn’t lol.
It would be typical of our past 10 years of bad luck/utter failure to trade a king's ransom for Drake Maye leaving the Pats with all that we traded and JJM only for JJM to turn into the true Franchise QB while we are left with a guy hoped to be another Eli clone.
Did you write that with a straight face? Maye may have a similar personality to Eli, but that's where the comp stops. Maye has a better arm, is more mobile, is a better athlete, and he is better off platform.
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It would be typical of our past 10 years of bad luck/utter failure to trade a king's ransom for Drake Maye leaving the Pats with all that we traded and JJM only for JJM to turn into the true Franchise QB while we are left with a guy hoped to be another Eli clone.
Did you write that with a straight face? Maye may have a similar personality to Eli, but that's where the comp stops. Maye has a better arm, is more mobile, is a better athlete, and he is better off platform.
Absolutely he is, I was referring more to the physical specimens and southern boy thing. I like Maye a lot too, don't get me wrong. My concern is if he had it between the ears as evinced by his play under pressure and what I see on tale. I don't feel solid about that part. Other than that I think he is AAA. He makes throws no one else in this draft can make and he is Josh Allen level of athleticism with big arm combination. Both JJM and Maye would excite me a lot, I'd prefer to not trade up myself but I'd be thrilled still if SchDabka n Co felt conviction to the point of paying a king's ransom for pick 3.
Did you watch the videos on Josh Allen's improved throwing motion? It's actually uncanny how similar that is to what Daboll would want to do with JJM, just as he did with Allen. Makes me wonder if perhaps JJM is the guy they are gunning for?
Brilliant.
Look, I get it. We are fans. We eat all this sh#t up. We watch/read NFL/Giants stuff 24/7 but let’s be honest. Most of these guys are fanboys. Skinner, Falato, etc. watch some tape, get some all 22 footage and break it down. It’s fun to watch but they aren’t pro scouts or coaches. But none of them know how to coach, scout or have any professional knowledge. I give them props, they have a following, may make some money doing it from social media… all the power to them. But take it at face value.
Just stop with this nonsense already.
He also threw it over 60 yards in the air
That should answer questions about his arm strength
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Maybe that helped him process so quickly
Just stop with this nonsense already.
Do you deny the simple fact?
He knew the other teams plays..
Once that ended...meh!
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In comment 16439454 AROCK1000 said:
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Maybe that helped him process so quickly
Just stop with this nonsense already.
Do you deny the simple fact?
He knew the other teams plays..
Once that ended...meh!
You mean beating 4 top 7 teams???
It ranges from best QB in the draft to, "I wouldn't touch him in the first round" for all of them.
Draft experts as well as scouts and GMs are consistently wrong in their QB evaluations. So I'm not going to place much value in what one guy says... no matter who he is.
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In comment 16439602 RCPhoenix said:
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In comment 16439454 AROCK1000 said:
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Maybe that helped him process so quickly
Just stop with this nonsense already.
Do you deny the simple fact?
He knew the other teams plays..
Once that ended...meh!
You mean beating 4 top 7 teams???
Remind me of his #s vs those teams..
Do you deny the simple fact?
He knew the other teams plays..
Once that ended...meh!
It's a Michigan QB thing. Brady was doing it in New England for his first ten years... ;)
You’re a bore.
He also threw it over 60 yards in the air
That should answer questions about his arm strength
I dot think any questions arm strength. He doesn’t have a feel as far as arm talent. Every ball he throws is a rocket. He doesn’t have touch. You watcu Caleb Williams that is a special arm as far as velocity and touch. To me, JJ has velocity he lacks polish
Yep, I'll leave it to the guys who do this for a living.
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It would be typical of our past 10 years of bad luck/utter failure to trade a king's ransom for Drake Maye leaving the Pats with all that we traded and JJM only for JJM to turn into the true Franchise QB while we are left with a guy hoped to be another Eli clone.
Did you write that with a straight face? Maye may have a similar personality to Eli, but that's where the comp stops. Maye has a better arm, is more mobile, is a better athlete, and he is better off platform.
OK, when he wins 2 SBs and is SB MVP twice, then you can make that comparison.
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Do you deny the simple fact?
He knew the other teams plays..
Once that ended...meh!
It's a Michigan QB thing. Brady was doing it in New England for his first ten years... ;)
It’s not true and it’s a stupid, tired, dumb argument.
That doesn't mean he won't be good. I'd just be wary that we're collectively taking ourselves into him.
That doesn't mean he won't be good. I'd just be wary that we're collectively taking ourselves into him.
A lot of people didn’t think he was coming out though. The other 5 were all but confirmed.
That doesn't mean he won't be good. I'd just be wary that we're collectively taking ourselves into him.
The buzz is coming off people thinking he was staying at Michigan and then taking a closer look at his film when he declared. And it’s coming from scouts. Not the Mel Kipers.
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McCarthy threw 61 mph which is 3rd highest ever at Combine (fyi Jones threw 54 mph)
He also threw it over 60 yards in the air
That should answer questions about his arm strength
I dot think any questions arm strength. He doesn’t have a feel as far as arm talent. Every ball he throws is a rocket. He doesn’t have touch. You watcu Caleb Williams that is a special arm as far as velocity and touch. To me, JJ has velocity he lacks polish
So did Josh Allen, he completely changed his throwing motion and honed it in
There's literally a section that say "add a link". It's not that hard.
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In comment 16439609 AROCK1000 said:
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In comment 16439602 RCPhoenix said:
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In comment 16439454 AROCK1000 said:
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Maybe that helped him process so quickly
Just stop with this nonsense already.
Do you deny the simple fact?
He knew the other teams plays..
Once that ended...meh!
You mean beating 4 top 7 teams???
Remind me of his #s vs those teams..
Just need one. See link.
Also, the throwing motion can and will be worked on. It doesn't hinder his ability or limit him as a passer. I trust his arm in the pros and his athletic ability is top notch, too. Game manager stuff is just ridiculous. Maye needs work, too, and Daniels has the weakest arm of the top 4.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/boxscore/_/gameId/401551786 - ( New Window )
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In comment 16439615 JT039 said:
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In comment 16439609 AROCK1000 said:
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In comment 16439602 RCPhoenix said:
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In comment 16439454 AROCK1000 said:
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Maybe that helped him process so quickly
Just stop with this nonsense already.
Do you deny the simple fact?
He knew the other teams plays..
Once that ended...meh!
You mean beating 4 top 7 teams???
Remind me of his #s vs those teams..
Just need one. See link.
Also, the throwing motion can and will be worked on. It doesn't hinder his ability or limit him as a passer. I trust his arm in the pros and his athletic ability is top notch, too. Game manager stuff is just ridiculous. Maye needs work, too, and Daniels has the weakest arm of the top 4. https://www.espn.com/college-football/boxscore/_/gameId/401551786 - ( New Window )
I think Maye needs the most work of the big 4 myself