is so consequential. If they can keep their second round pick, in a draft with deep WR talent, they might be able to snag a guy who can turn WR into a strength.
Slayton, Hyatt and Robinson is actually a great WR group behind a true #1. Without that guy though, its scary.
Look at it this way, what position(s) do we have below-average starters and/or are we one lost player away from a 'nobody' getting reps? Lots to choose from!
the entire skill group is probably the worst in the league. Going to be ugly unless Joe has a really strong showing throughout the middle and late rounds.
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
And should be a steady short/intermediate guy. I could see him having a 80+ catch season.
Hyatt was wasted last year because none of our QB’s had the skill or ability to either throw deep, anticipate, or read coverages consistently.
Slayton should be ok for another 50+ catches next year.
Figure if they don’t go WR in round one, maybe round 2? It’s a deep draft. Maybe they can find a gem in the later rounds. Probably need to come out of the draft with two WR and two CB.
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
I'm not going to argue it needs more help, but no sort of talent in the secondary? Deontae Banks anyone? I thought Pinnock and Belton showed progress last year as well and would like to see how much Hawkins can do with another offseason. Not declaring it a strength by any means but I don't think it's a black hole either.
And I see 3 in this draft. Doesn’t mean another can’t emerge but if we truly don’t like the QBs at 6 we have to go WR, I don’t trust the depth at WR this draft, it likely isn’t the reality.
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
This guy is a little over dramatic. The roster isn’t the worst in football, however securing the right franchise QB, covers a lot of warts up.
And should be a steady short/intermediate guy. I could see him having a 80+ catch season.
Hyatt was wasted last year because none of our QB’s had the skill or ability to either throw deep, anticipate, or read coverages consistently.
Slayton should be ok for another 50+ catches next year.
Figure if they don’t go WR in round one, maybe round 2? It’s a deep draft. Maybe they can find a gem in the later rounds. Probably need to come out of the draft with two WR and two CB.
It’s a “deep” draft meaning there’s WR1 talent in round 2. The WR talent is pretty dry come the end of round 3.
I think the Giants are better in that area than we think
Both Slayton and Hyatt were +15 yards/reception in 2023, and Robinson had a 53.8% success rate on his 78 targets. That's all fine considering who was throwing the ball.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
This guy is a little over dramatic. The roster isn’t the worst in football, however securing the right franchise QB, covers a lot of warts up.
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
For as fun and unexpected as the 2022 season was (up to the playoff loss to the Eagles), in reality it gave the front office a sense of false hope, especially in Daniel Jones. Because of this, the franchise appears to now be stuck in mud until his contract is off the books, and it also may end up costing Schoen and Daboll their jobs next season because I just can’t see this team being any good with all the holes and a terrible QB room.
RE: I think the Giants are better in that area than we think
Both Slayton and Hyatt were +15 yards/reception in 2023, and Robinson had a 53.8% success rate on his 78 targets. That's all fine considering who was throwing the ball.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
Certainly possible and not much changed from last year... however, the depth situation is really bad and we will need Robinson and Hyatt to step it up.
There was a lot of meat left on the bone last season with the players we have. Can it be better? Yes. This is also a tremendous draft for WRs. You don't have to be all-in on WR at 6.
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
this is a common misperception of roster construction that leads a lot of hollow takes. in the current NFL the bottom 70% of most teams rosters are the same. that's how a player like feliciano ends up starting in the SB (and kadarius toney ends up there for the 2nd straight year but inactive lol).
the top of the roster investments are what decides who wins/loses, along with coaches who can find ways to get more out of the bottom of the roster (like richie james, hodgins, moureau, etc in 2022).
if you compared the top of the NYG roster at the end of 2021 to 2022, 2023, and now 2024 i think today's version is meaningfully better for whatever that is worth (and hard as they tried, none of those teams ended up worst in football).
We’ll be inside the top 10 again next year. College pumps out good WR’s every year. If we must wait til then to get our alpha, so be it. QB1 is the order of business this year. Nothing gets better here until he’s acquired.
They have had arguably the worst wide receiver group
in the league for the last 2-3 years, it’s brutal. Robinson flashed late last year, but aside from him it’s a bunch of JAGs. Maybe Hyatt will pan out, but his lack of playing time on a team starved for offensive talent is concerning.
We’ll be inside the top 10 again next year. College pumps out good WR’s every year. If we must wait til then to get our alpha, so be it. QB1 is the order of business this year. Nothing gets better here until he’s acquired.
I would agree if the top three teams weren’t taking QB. Is it better to trade up and take option 4 at QB or the second or third best receiver in the draft at 6?
We’ll be inside the top 10 again next year. College pumps out good WR’s every year. If we must wait til then to get our alpha, so be it. QB1 is the order of business this year. Nothing gets better here until he’s acquired.
There are people who will tell you they have a firm grasp on what these receivers are on one hand, but then argue that the QB shouldn't be judged under these conditions and deserves a 'fair shot'. It makes no sense.
And I see 3 in this draft. Doesn’t mean another can’t emerge but if we truly don’t like the QBs at 6 we have to go WR, I don’t trust the depth at WR this draft, it likely isn’t the reality.
If no QB we have to snag one of the top 3 receivers. We desperately need a #1 not a 2 or 3. We already have those
We’ll be inside the top 10 again next year. College pumps out good WR’s every year. If we must wait til then to get our alpha, so be it. QB1 is the order of business this year. Nothing gets better here until he’s acquired.
I would agree if the top three teams weren’t taking QB. Is it better to trade up and take option 4 at QB or the second or third best receiver in the draft at 6?
Probably have to assume that Williams goes 1st overall. What we don't know is how Schoen and Daboll would rank Maye. JJM and Daniels. We would be drafting the 4th QB off the board but for all we know, it could be the #2 guy on Schoen's wish list.
Last year at this time than we currently have. They added a 3rd round pick at WR and a good QB and they don't have WR issues anymore. We need to get a good QB and that will fix a lot of issues.
This was never going to be a 1 year rebuild. So we aren't going to fix every issue this offseason. Might have to wait until next year to get a true #1 WR.
and get a QB in the 2nd round. I'd love to see Rome Odunze wearing Giants blue on opening day! If fate goes the Giants way they could draft Rattler or Nix in the 2nd round.
RE: The reason I wouldn't mind drafting a WR with the #6
and get a QB in the 2nd round. I'd love to see Rome Odunze wearing Giants blue on opening day! If fate goes the Giants way they could draft Rattler or Nix in the 2nd round.
No thanks on Spencer Rattler and I can't imagine Bo Nix is available at 47.
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
I agree with this 100%. It's scary bad. I'm not ready to give up on Schoen, but we're part way through his 3rd offseason and this roster isn't much better than when he arrived. (And it was God awful.) As much as I agreed with it, 2 of their more talented players are gone (Barkley and McKinney), who they relied on. It's amazing how many needs they (still) have.
Both Slayton and Hyatt were +15 yards/reception in 2023, and Robinson had a 53.8% success rate on his 78 targets. That's all fine considering who was throwing the ball.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
Agreed, the talent would look better if they had any semblance of a competent passer.
RE: RE: I think the Giants are better in that area than we think
Agreed, the talent would look better if they had any semblance of a competent passer.
I keep coming back to Penix. How many times were Slayton or Hyatt open deep and either missed or unseen? If we want to take advantage of the guys we have on this roster, there isn't a guy in this class that throws the ball downfield like Penix does.
RE: RE: RE: I think the Giants are better in that area than we think
Agreed, the talent would look better if they had any semblance of a competent passer.
I keep coming back to Penix. How many times were Slayton or Hyatt open deep and either missed or unseen? If we want to take advantage of the guys we have on this roster, there isn't a guy in this class that throws the ball downfield like Penix does.
I am starting to feel the best outcome is drafting Odunze AND Penix. Move back up into the first.
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
That is a lazy take. A very lazy take. Secondary, we have young fairly highly drafted players (we just don't have a ton of depth) but a HUGE help to any secondary is a pass rush and we now have a potentially very dangerous one.
QB yes, is a weak spot currently but WR I am not so sure I agree with that. We have young players that can develop very quickly with a better QB.. I would say Hyatt, WDR, Slayton all would do a LOT better with a QB who can hit them in stride...
Our biggest weakness was OLINE and QB and we have improved one on paper and if we do something at QB we could easily improve our WR situation without even including potential additions to come.
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
I agree with this 100%. It's scary bad. I'm not ready to give up on Schoen, but we're part way through his 3rd offseason and this roster isn't much better than when he arrived. (And it was God awful.) As much as I agreed with it, 2 of their more talented players are gone (Barkley and McKinney), who they relied on. It's amazing how many needs they (still) have.
i dont think the bold is accurate. i think there is talent improvement at the line of scrimmage on both sides.
before this regime arrived remember dex wasnt dex because prior administrations were playing him out of position. patterson et al took him from a 5yo people questioned into a legitimate impact player.
they didn't have a 10 sack rusher on the roster now they have 2.
they didn't have a single LB worth a damn (martinez was coming off ACL that basically ended up a career killer).
I wont dispute that the non-Thomas OL was even worse somehow than the unit in 2021 but for all our sakes i think there's at least some semblance of hope in runyan, jms, eluemeanor, neal, and most importantly the new ol coach.
Slayton is a nice deep threat and every once in awhile will surprise with a really good game.
But he’s a 4th receiver on most teams.
No he’s not. He’s low end 2 on a bad team and high end 3 on a good team. He produced at a higher rate as like like Nico Collins up until last year, when Nico Collins situation got much better
Gabe Davis was WR2 on one of the best offenses in the league
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
Both Slayton and Hyatt were +15 yards/reception in 2023, and Robinson had a 53.8% success rate on his 78 targets. That's all fine considering who was throwing the ball.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
Certainly possible and not much changed from last year... however, the depth situation is really bad and we will need Robinson and Hyatt to step it up.
The depth situation is bad, but last year we had depth and the depth itself was bad. So now we have no depth but for "bad" depth you can get there at vet min or UDFA.
he was much better last year. It took Toomer, the Giants GOAT WR, a number of years to become the receiver he was too! Slayton is running better routes and his hands were much better last year.
That said, he's not a #1, but he could be part of a pretty good group with a clear #1. Hyatt needs more development as well. He's got a high ceiling too.
Look at it this way, what position(s) do we have below-average starters and/or are we one lost player away from a 'nobody' getting reps? Lots to choose from!
Oline! What the Giants have now is average at best, lose one of the starters (Thomas) and you can mail it in!
Look at it this way, what position(s) do we have below-average starters and/or are we one lost player away from a 'nobody' getting reps? Lots to choose from!
Oline! What the Giants have now is average at best, lose one of the starters (Thomas) and you can mail it in!
They signed 4 offensive lineman and have one of the best LT in the league. How much more are they supposed to invest in the oline?
A stud #1 wideout would he a great consolation prize to the QB race
We will draft a qb in rd 1, potentially trading draft collateral to move up, and surround the QB with crap. That strategy worked for Daniel Jones.
And Bryce Young last year.
And CJ Stroud… oh wait
Nico Collins is a 6'4, 220 lb beast whom ran a 4.4. Tank Dell was electric.. and LT Bernhard Raimann, LG Quenton Nelson, C Ryan Kelly, RG Will Fries, RT Braden Smith.
Both Slayton and Hyatt were +15 yards/reception in 2023, and Robinson had a 53.8% success rate on his 78 targets. That's all fine considering who was throwing the ball.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
I agree with this, a big physical #1 receiver with separation ability would be great, but these guys would look a lot better with some real NFL level QB play.
I'm supposed to be confident in any our WR being anything more than mediocre players. Do some of them have potential for more? Sure. But performance is what matters most, and it ain't there.
Would complete the WR room. The rest of the WRs are basically like drafting starting WR2s and WR3s. I do like Malachi Corley, though. He has massive potential. Still… no reason we could t draft Odunze at 1.6, Nix at 2.47 and grab Corley if he falls to the 3rd rd.
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
Well, they aren't wrong.
Consider this team was +12 in turnovers but still only finished with 6 wins.
The biggest problem this team has is we don't have a legit QB. & the QB we do have-the dude making $40 million-won't or is scared/incapable to look downfield & throw the rock. We could have Jerry Rice as our #1 WR & he could be running downfield wide open, but if the QB won't even look in his direction...what's the point?
as a draft a QB guy I was looking at 2023 numbers for
We will draft a qb in rd 1, potentially trading draft collateral to move up, and surround the QB with crap. That strategy worked for Daniel Jones.
And Bryce Young last year.
And CJ Stroud… oh wait
Nico Collins is a 6'4, 220 lb beast whom ran a 4.4. Tank Dell was electric.. and LT Bernhard Raimann, LG Quenton Nelson, C Ryan Kelly, RG Will Fries, RT Braden Smith.
Oh wait. You guys are too much.
What were Nico Collins stats before Stroud got there?
Not sure why you listed the Colts offensive line but the Texans offensive line wasn’t good.
We have a depth problem at WR. Robinson, Hyatt, and Slayton are guys who have speed and who can get open. We also have a depth problem at DL, Edge, LB, Safety, and CB. All of it needs to be addressed and while I applaud the focus on OL and blocking TE in free agency, we need to address depth at all of these positions. Much work to be done. I'm not convinced that drafting a perceived WR1 at #6 is the answer. As a franchise that has spent high draft capital on OBJ and Toney it seems we should know better than to assume drafting a promising WR will solve our problems.
Look at it this way, what position(s) do we have below-average starters and/or are we one lost player away from a 'nobody' getting reps? Lots to choose from!
And should be a steady short/intermediate guy. I could see him having a 80+ catch season.
Hyatt was wasted last year because none of our QB’s had the skill or ability to either throw deep, anticipate, or read coverages consistently.
Slayton should be ok for another 50+ catches next year.
Figure if they don’t go WR in round one, maybe round 2? It’s a deep draft. Maybe they can find a gem in the later rounds. Probably need to come out of the draft with two WR and two CB.
Who elevates those around him. Eli even got production from Rueben Randle for christ’s sake
Daniel jones only good half last year was Arizona when hyatt showed the dog in him and told jones to take it to him deep.
The qb drives the offense. While we do need better receivers we need a qb who can use the assets he has, otherwise you are just having a child drive a racecar
It is nice looking a bit above on the depth cart and seeing the potentially improved ol though
RE: RE: I think the Giants are better in that area than we think
Both Slayton and Hyatt were +15 yards/reception in 2023, and Robinson had a 53.8% success rate on his 78 targets. That's all fine considering who was throwing the ball.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
I agree with this, a big physical #1 receiver with separation ability would be great, but these guys would look a lot better with some real NFL level QB play.
Would take Odunze over McCarthy and it’s not particularly close for me. McCarthy doesn’t strike me as a top 10 NFL draft type talent. I can see Odunze being an all pro receiver easily.
We will draft a qb in rd 1, potentially trading draft collateral to move up, and surround the QB with crap. That strategy worked for Daniel Jones.
And Bryce Young last year.
And CJ Stroud… oh wait
Nico Collins is a 6'4, 220 lb beast whom ran a 4.4. Tank Dell was electric.. and LT Bernhard Raimann, LG Quenton Nelson, C Ryan Kelly, RG Will Fries, RT Braden Smith.
Oh wait. You guys are too much.
What were Nico Collins stats before Stroud got there?
Not sure why you listed the Colts offensive line but the Texans offensive line wasn’t good.
Yeah, I pasted the wrong oline in - my bad. His oline was in the bottom 1/3, he had a great year. He had a poor to mediocre line, an above average WR room, and was drafted #2 overall. Did the Giants have a shot to draft him? They had a shot to draft … Fields, Pickett, Willis, and Brock Purdy. So don’t know where we are getting Stroud from.
I understand your argument, but it’s a fantasy in relation to when we got Jones and whom who could have course corrected with.
This year we have a chance, I hope McCarthy/Maye are worth it. I get it if we go that way, but Nabers and Odunze have much higher floors imo. I’ll cheer for whomever we go with, but the whole Jones is the worst narrative is so tired and simplistic. He showed some things, had no support, got beat to a pulp, and we can now move on. The alternatives are not terrible, and one could make the argument building with a WR is not a bad place to start, (this is not a rb).
But there are so many examples of a "franchise WR" build plan not going anywhere.
Calvin Johnson played in 2 career playoff games. Hall of Fame player.
Larry Fitzgerald made the playoffs just twice after Kurt Warner left in 2009.
Andre Johnson couldn't overcome the Texans never having a QB good enough.
Justin Jefferson in Minnesota, through no fault of his own, hasn't led the Vikings to where you'd want the Giants to go.
It's the QB. It's always been a QB league. It hasn't changed. You can tie up in knots trying to cute it up, and that WR sure will be great, but unless you solve QB you will frustrate yourself and not even maximize your investment on the WR.
We have seen enough winning here from 07 to '11 to know that you don't need to have an all pro WR to make it happen for you. When you have a QB, you make your WRs out of drafting solid talent.
We have seen enough losing here from 2014 to 2018 to know that having a "number 1 WR" is a nice to have and can win you games but doesn't make you great.
could be in a coma, but if you tell him someone is knocking his boy Slayton, he'll wake right up, grab a keyboard, and go to work.
I'm just reading this now = )
It's a one man mission for the truth.
Aye I like Slayton too, I think a good qb could do work with Wandale, Slayton and Hyatt. It would suck to miss out on all the wrs if we traded up for qb, but maybe we could trade back into round 2 if a good one slipped like Xavier Leggette.
instead of trading for that bum Darren Waller we should have kept the pick and drafted Puka Nacua
Well we basically traded the legendary Yung Joka for Darren Waller, hindsight is 20/20. Also Puka was drafted in rd5 and I guarantee he would've looked pretty pedestrian (still good for a 5th rd wr ofc) with our QBs and OL last year.
Believe there were multiple snaps in the LVR game where Jalin was wide open and Jones didn’t even look his way.
We know you hate Jones, but the facts are he threw 9 passes in that game before getting hurt. The first two were short passes on quick reads. Two were deep throws to Hyatt, one was a deep throw to Slayton.
Passing plays are designed with a progression of reads the QB goes through. If the first option is open that's where the ball goes. The QB doesn't take a look at any other option to see if they might be open. The Giants offense under Daboll has relied on quick short routes, especially with all the injuries on the O line.
If you look at the data above, the glaring hole is that guy who draws 125+ targets.
That table doesn't include TEs. But keep in mind Waller drew 145 targets in 2020. That's who Schoen was gambling on.
My hope is the draft shakes out in a way where the Vikings can move to number 5, and the Giants pick up 11 and 23. And they can reasonably attack WR and QB.
This seems like it would fit into the category of “more than one thing can be true at the same time”. From my eye, the giants need to upgrade both the wr and qb positions. Now, how much blame is assigned to those specific positions for the lack of productive passing attack is each person’s opinion.
Believe there were multiple snaps in the LVR game where Jalin was wide open and Jones didn’t even look his way.
We know you hate Jones, but the facts are he threw 9 passes in that game before getting hurt. The first two were short passes on quick reads. Two were deep throws to Hyatt, one was a deep throw to Slayton.
Passing plays are designed with a progression of reads the QB goes through. If the first option is open that's where the ball goes. The QB doesn't take a look at any other option to see if they might be open. The Giants offense under Daboll has relied on quick short routes, especially with all the injuries on the O line.
in a passing league we have a terrible offensive line, a terrible wr group, and a mediocre qb--we are so far away. That is what I am talking about with Schoen in two years he has not done a great job of fixing any of that (although he has thrown resources be it money, draft picks, etc at all 3).
I agree with those that say we are missing that #1 guy
and depth sucks but Slayton, Hyatt and Wan'dale are a solid 2,3,4. So we need that #1 guy and a depth guy. I assume we're going to add a guy in the draft at some point. #1 might have to wait a year if we're going QB at 6 though.
My pie in the sky wish is still WR in 1 and Bo Nix in 2.
Regardless, we aren't fixing every unit this year - lets hope we draft well and add good pieces.
in that order for our #1 pick of value/need. but we probably have to move up for a QB worth it. we can sit tight for WR or OT. so, it all depends of if a trade up is worth it given the demands, or even if it is possible. maybe no one wants to trade down.
RE: I think the Giants are better in that area than we think
Both Slayton and Hyatt were +15 yards/reception in 2023, and Robinson had a 53.8% success rate on his 78 targets. That's all fine considering who was throwing the ball.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
Totally agree with this, if healthy.
yes, no true #1 guy. but hyatt and slayton are different players if the qb has time to throw. wasn't ceedee lamb gushing about robinson recently?
in a passing league we have a terrible offensive line, a terrible wr group, and a mediocre qb--we are so far away. That is what I am talking about with Schoen in two years he has not done a great job of fixing any of that (although he has thrown resources be it money, draft picks, etc at all 3).
Does anyone here think he can develop into a decent starter?
With Hyatt and Robinson running most of the Y & Z routes, could we have BFW run some of the X-receiver stuff? I mean, I hope we come away from the draft with someone potentially better, but if not that might mean we drafted our QB. If the latter is true, we'll have money to spend on a UFA WR1 or can draft one in 25.
Does anyone here think he can develop into a decent starter?
With Hyatt and Robinson running most of the Y & Z routes, could we have BFW run some of the X-receiver stuff? I mean, I hope we come away from the draft with someone potentially better, but if not that might mean we drafted our QB. If the latter is true, we'll have money to spend on a UFA WR1 or can draft one in 25.
He didn't really stand out last year. His best hope before he got hurt was as a gunner. I doubt he makes it out of camp.
Slayton is what he is at this point in his career. He's a nice player who can occasionally surprise, which is what he does. He gets paid like a #3 receiver, which is what he is at his best.
He's not someone you can really rely upon in a big spot.
I don’t hate Jones. And in regards to the LVR game, I heard that mentioned on multiple podcasts in the days afterwards from podcasters who had rewatched the game so I’m assuming there’s some validity to what they said.
Slayton is what he is at this point in his career. He's a nice player who can occasionally surprise, which is what he does. He gets paid like a #3 receiver, which is what he is at his best.
He's not someone you can really rely upon in a big spot.
The irony is hilarious
The more I think about it, this is a skill position issue.
On top of bad QBs, WRs, RBs, we have what, 1 CB? Thankfully, it seems we have pass rushers covered, and a stud left tackle. But the skill position groups are incredibly underwhelming.
ajr, you don't have to respond to every single post i make to somehow make it about Jones. you really don't. I know you can't help yourself but you really gotta find another lane.
ajr, you don't have to respond to every single post i make to somehow make it about Jones. you really don't. I know you can't help yourself but you really gotta find another lane.
You can’t help having bad takes. I’ve got plenty of lanes.
But hey remember how you came after me for saying the Giants are high on McCarthy and then they brought him in for a top 30 visit a couple of days later?
The Giants offense now is worse than those mid-late 1970's teams
Slayton, Hyatt and Robinson is actually a great WR group behind a true #1. Without that guy though, its scary.
Look at it this way, what position(s) do we have below-average starters and/or are we one lost player away from a 'nobody' getting reps? Lots to choose from!
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
Might as well sum up all the holes on this roster.
Hyatt was wasted last year because none of our QB’s had the skill or ability to either throw deep, anticipate, or read coverages consistently.
Slayton should be ok for another 50+ catches next year.
Figure if they don’t go WR in round one, maybe round 2? It’s a deep draft. Maybe they can find a gem in the later rounds. Probably need to come out of the draft with two WR and two CB.
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
I'm not going to argue it needs more help, but no sort of talent in the secondary? Deontae Banks anyone? I thought Pinnock and Belton showed progress last year as well and would like to see how much Hawkins can do with another offseason. Not declaring it a strength by any means but I don't think it's a black hole either.
There are QBs and WRs available at 1 and 2.
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
This guy is a little over dramatic. The roster isn’t the worst in football, however securing the right franchise QB, covers a lot of warts up.
Hyatt was wasted last year because none of our QB’s had the skill or ability to either throw deep, anticipate, or read coverages consistently.
Slayton should be ok for another 50+ catches next year.
Figure if they don’t go WR in round one, maybe round 2? It’s a deep draft. Maybe they can find a gem in the later rounds. Probably need to come out of the draft with two WR and two CB.
It’s a “deep” draft meaning there’s WR1 talent in round 2. The WR talent is pretty dry come the end of round 3.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
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NFL Insider
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
This guy is a little over dramatic. The roster isn’t the worst in football, however securing the right franchise QB, covers a lot of warts up.
It’s bottom 5 for sure
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
For as fun and unexpected as the 2022 season was (up to the playoff loss to the Eagles), in reality it gave the front office a sense of false hope, especially in Daniel Jones. Because of this, the franchise appears to now be stuck in mud until his contract is off the books, and it also may end up costing Schoen and Daboll their jobs next season because I just can’t see this team being any good with all the holes and a terrible QB room.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
Certainly possible and not much changed from last year... however, the depth situation is really bad and we will need Robinson and Hyatt to step it up.
There was a lot of meat left on the bone last season with the players we have. Can it be better? Yes. This is also a tremendous draft for WRs. You don't have to be all-in on WR at 6.
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
this is a common misperception of roster construction that leads a lot of hollow takes. in the current NFL the bottom 70% of most teams rosters are the same. that's how a player like feliciano ends up starting in the SB (and kadarius toney ends up there for the 2nd straight year but inactive lol).
the top of the roster investments are what decides who wins/loses, along with coaches who can find ways to get more out of the bottom of the roster (like richie james, hodgins, moureau, etc in 2022).
if you compared the top of the NYG roster at the end of 2021 to 2022, 2023, and now 2024 i think today's version is meaningfully better for whatever that is worth (and hard as they tried, none of those teams ended up worst in football).
Is Kadarius Toney available yet?
I would agree if the top three teams weren’t taking QB. Is it better to trade up and take option 4 at QB or the second or third best receiver in the draft at 6?
+1
There are people who will tell you they have a firm grasp on what these receivers are on one hand, but then argue that the QB shouldn't be judged under these conditions and deserves a 'fair shot'. It makes no sense.
If no QB we have to snag one of the top 3 receivers. We desperately need a #1 not a 2 or 3. We already have those
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We’ll be inside the top 10 again next year. College pumps out good WR’s every year. If we must wait til then to get our alpha, so be it. QB1 is the order of business this year. Nothing gets better here until he’s acquired.
I would agree if the top three teams weren’t taking QB. Is it better to trade up and take option 4 at QB or the second or third best receiver in the draft at 6?
Probably have to assume that Williams goes 1st overall. What we don't know is how Schoen and Daboll would rank Maye. JJM and Daniels. We would be drafting the 4th QB off the board but for all we know, it could be the #2 guy on Schoen's wish list.
This was never going to be a 1 year rebuild. So we aren't going to fix every issue this offseason. Might have to wait until next year to get a true #1 WR.
No thanks on Spencer Rattler and I can't imagine Bo Nix is available at 47.
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
I agree with this 100%. It's scary bad. I'm not ready to give up on Schoen, but we're part way through his 3rd offseason and this roster isn't much better than when he arrived. (And it was God awful.) As much as I agreed with it, 2 of their more talented players are gone (Barkley and McKinney), who they relied on. It's amazing how many needs they (still) have.
In a world where Waller is not chronically injured, they have a group that would be productive with a competent quarterback.
Unfortunately, we don't live in that world.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
Agreed, the talent would look better if they had any semblance of a competent passer.
I keep coming back to Penix. How many times were Slayton or Hyatt open deep and either missed or unseen? If we want to take advantage of the guys we have on this roster, there isn't a guy in this class that throws the ball downfield like Penix does.
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Agreed, the talent would look better if they had any semblance of a competent passer.
I keep coming back to Penix. How many times were Slayton or Hyatt open deep and either missed or unseen? If we want to take advantage of the guys we have on this roster, there isn't a guy in this class that throws the ball downfield like Penix does.
I would push back a bit and say a legit QB could solve a lot of our issues, especially WR.
Now, I don't want to give the impression a WR1 isn't a good idea, but you can also solve a lot of problems with a few WR2s.
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I would push back a bit and say a legit QB could solve a lot of our issues, especially WR.
Now, I don't want to give the impression a WR1 isn't a good idea, but you can also solve a lot of problems with a few WR2s.
See: Houston, Baltimore, Green Bay
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
That is a lazy take. A very lazy take. Secondary, we have young fairly highly drafted players (we just don't have a ton of depth) but a HUGE help to any secondary is a pass rush and we now have a potentially very dangerous one.
QB yes, is a weak spot currently but WR I am not so sure I agree with that. We have young players that can develop very quickly with a better QB.. I would say Hyatt, WDR, Slayton all would do a LOT better with a QB who can hit them in stride...
Our biggest weakness was OLINE and QB and we have improved one on paper and if we do something at QB we could easily improve our WR situation without even including potential additions to come.
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NFL Insider
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
I agree with this 100%. It's scary bad. I'm not ready to give up on Schoen, but we're part way through his 3rd offseason and this roster isn't much better than when he arrived. (And it was God awful.) As much as I agreed with it, 2 of their more talented players are gone (Barkley and McKinney), who they relied on. It's amazing how many needs they (still) have.
i dont think the bold is accurate. i think there is talent improvement at the line of scrimmage on both sides.
before this regime arrived remember dex wasnt dex because prior administrations were playing him out of position. patterson et al took him from a 5yo people questioned into a legitimate impact player.
they didn't have a 10 sack rusher on the roster now they have 2.
they didn't have a single LB worth a damn (martinez was coming off ACL that basically ended up a career killer).
I wont dispute that the non-Thomas OL was even worse somehow than the unit in 2021 but for all our sakes i think there's at least some semblance of hope in runyan, jms, eluemeanor, neal, and most importantly the new ol coach.
A blind dummy QB that holds the ball...bounce, bounce....tap....tap...makes everybody look bad...OL, WR, RB.....EVERYBODY
Why is this SO hard to understand ????
But he’s a 4th receiver on most teams.
But he’s a 4th receiver on most teams.
No he’s not. He’s low end 2 on a bad team and high end 3 on a good team. He produced at a higher rate as like like Nico Collins up until last year, when Nico Collins situation got much better
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
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Both Slayton and Hyatt were +15 yards/reception in 2023, and Robinson had a 53.8% success rate on his 78 targets. That's all fine considering who was throwing the ball.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
Certainly possible and not much changed from last year... however, the depth situation is really bad and we will need Robinson and Hyatt to step it up.
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We will draft a qb in rd 1, potentially trading draft collateral to move up, and surround the QB with crap. That strategy worked for Daniel Jones.
And Bryce Young last year.
And CJ Stroud… oh wait
Wouldn't be surprised if they took one at 6 and another later.
That said, he's not a #1, but he could be part of a pretty good group with a clear #1. Hyatt needs more development as well. He's got a high ceiling too.
Look at it this way, what position(s) do we have below-average starters and/or are we one lost player away from a 'nobody' getting reps? Lots to choose from!
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Also RB, TE, CB, S and DT.
Look at it this way, what position(s) do we have below-average starters and/or are we one lost player away from a 'nobody' getting reps? Lots to choose from!
Oline! What the Giants have now is average at best, lose one of the starters (Thomas) and you can mail it in!
They signed 4 offensive lineman and have one of the best LT in the league. How much more are they supposed to invest in the oline?
The problem is long term we don’t know if we will sign any of them and playing the FA game at WR stinks.
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In comment 16439480 NJBlueTuna said:
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We will draft a qb in rd 1, potentially trading draft collateral to move up, and surround the QB with crap. That strategy worked for Daniel Jones.
And Bryce Young last year.
And CJ Stroud… oh wait
Nico Collins is a 6'4, 220 lb beast whom ran a 4.4. Tank Dell was electric.. and LT Bernhard Raimann, LG Quenton Nelson, C Ryan Kelly, RG Will Fries, RT Braden Smith.
Oh wait. You guys are too much.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
I agree with this, a big physical #1 receiver with separation ability would be great, but these guys would look a lot better with some real NFL level QB play.
@AngryNFLInsider
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Mar 16
When you look at the #Giants roster you can definitely argue they have the worst roster in football. No sort of talent or much talent in the secondary, QB position, WR position and you can still argue the offensive line needs work. Schoen has plenty of work to do even after Burns
Well, they aren't wrong.
Consider this team was +12 in turnovers but still only finished with 6 wins.
11 of 14 teams that made playoffs last year also have a top 20 ranked WR per PFF end of the year rankings. Steelers were the outlier.
49ers - Ayuk & Deebo
Bills - Diggs
Cowboys - CeeDee
Lions - Amon-Ra St. Brown
Texans - Collins & Dell
Browns - Cooper
Chiefs - Rice
Eagles - Brown
Phins - Tyreek & Waddle
Rams - Nacua
Bucs - Evans
In fact only 4 teams Bears, Chargers, Vikings, Bengals had top 15 guy and didn't make it.
WR might have the best result
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In comment 16439486 DavidinBMNY said:
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In comment 16439480 NJBlueTuna said:
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We will draft a qb in rd 1, potentially trading draft collateral to move up, and surround the QB with crap. That strategy worked for Daniel Jones.
And Bryce Young last year.
And CJ Stroud… oh wait
Nico Collins is a 6'4, 220 lb beast whom ran a 4.4. Tank Dell was electric.. and LT Bernhard Raimann, LG Quenton Nelson, C Ryan Kelly, RG Will Fries, RT Braden Smith.
Oh wait. You guys are too much.
What were Nico Collins stats before Stroud got there?
Not sure why you listed the Colts offensive line but the Texans offensive line wasn’t good.
Look at it this way, what position(s) do we have below-average starters and/or are we one lost player away from a 'nobody' getting reps? Lots to choose from!
And RT.
Hyatt was wasted last year because none of our QB’s had the skill or ability to either throw deep, anticipate, or read coverages consistently.
Slayton should be ok for another 50+ catches next year.
Figure if they don’t go WR in round one, maybe round 2? It’s a deep draft. Maybe they can find a gem in the later rounds. Probably need to come out of the draft with two WR and two CB.
QB, WR1, RB
In comment 16439462 ryanmkeane said:
Here are the WRs with the 4th most targets on each NFL teams, plus Darius Slayton. Name the 17 teams where Slayton would be the 4th receiver.
Daniel jones only good half last year was Arizona when hyatt showed the dog in him and told jones to take it to him deep.
The qb drives the offense. While we do need better receivers we need a qb who can use the assets he has, otherwise you are just having a child drive a racecar
It is nice looking a bit above on the depth cart and seeing the potentially improved ol though
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Both Slayton and Hyatt were +15 yards/reception in 2023, and Robinson had a 53.8% success rate on his 78 targets. That's all fine considering who was throwing the ball.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
I agree with this, a big physical #1 receiver with separation ability would be great, but these guys would look a lot better with some real NFL level QB play.
+1
Highlighted are receivers I'd love to hear a debate on if they are better than Slayton and why.
In comment 16439462 ryanmkeane said:
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But he’s a 4th receiver on most teams.
Here are the WRs with the 4th most targets on each NFL teams, plus Darius Slayton. Name the 17 teams where Slayton would be the 4th receiver.
The irony is Slayton is a much better NFL player than his man crush
I'm just reading this now = )
It's a one man mission for the truth.
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In comment 16439488 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16439486 DavidinBMNY said:
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In comment 16439480 NJBlueTuna said:
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We will draft a qb in rd 1, potentially trading draft collateral to move up, and surround the QB with crap. That strategy worked for Daniel Jones.
And Bryce Young last year.
And CJ Stroud… oh wait
Nico Collins is a 6'4, 220 lb beast whom ran a 4.4. Tank Dell was electric.. and LT Bernhard Raimann, LG Quenton Nelson, C Ryan Kelly, RG Will Fries, RT Braden Smith.
Oh wait. You guys are too much.
What were Nico Collins stats before Stroud got there?
Not sure why you listed the Colts offensive line but the Texans offensive line wasn’t good.
Yeah, I pasted the wrong oline in - my bad. His oline was in the bottom 1/3, he had a great year. He had a poor to mediocre line, an above average WR room, and was drafted #2 overall. Did the Giants have a shot to draft him? They had a shot to draft … Fields, Pickett, Willis, and Brock Purdy. So don’t know where we are getting Stroud from.
I understand your argument, but it’s a fantasy in relation to when we got Jones and whom who could have course corrected with.
This year we have a chance, I hope McCarthy/Maye are worth it. I get it if we go that way, but Nabers and Odunze have much higher floors imo. I’ll cheer for whomever we go with, but the whole Jones is the worst narrative is so tired and simplistic. He showed some things, had no support, got beat to a pulp, and we can now move on. The alternatives are not terrible, and one could make the argument building with a WR is not a bad place to start, (this is not a rb).
Calvin Johnson played in 2 career playoff games. Hall of Fame player.
Larry Fitzgerald made the playoffs just twice after Kurt Warner left in 2009.
Andre Johnson couldn't overcome the Texans never having a QB good enough.
Justin Jefferson in Minnesota, through no fault of his own, hasn't led the Vikings to where you'd want the Giants to go.
It's the QB. It's always been a QB league. It hasn't changed. You can tie up in knots trying to cute it up, and that WR sure will be great, but unless you solve QB you will frustrate yourself and not even maximize your investment on the WR.
We have seen enough winning here from 07 to '11 to know that you don't need to have an all pro WR to make it happen for you. When you have a QB, you make your WRs out of drafting solid talent.
We have seen enough losing here from 2014 to 2018 to know that having a "number 1 WR" is a nice to have and can win you games but doesn't make you great.
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could be in a coma, but if you tell him someone is knocking his boy Slayton, he'll wake right up, grab a keyboard, and go to work.
I'm just reading this now = )
It's a one man mission for the truth.
Aye I like Slayton too, I think a good qb could do work with Wandale, Slayton and Hyatt. It would suck to miss out on all the wrs if we traded up for qb, but maybe we could trade back into round 2 if a good one slipped like Xavier Leggette.
Well we basically traded the legendary Yung Joka for Darren Waller, hindsight is 20/20. Also Puka was drafted in rd5 and I guarantee he would've looked pretty pedestrian (still good for a 5th rd wr ofc) with our QBs and OL last year.
We know you hate Jones, but the facts are he threw 9 passes in that game before getting hurt. The first two were short passes on quick reads. Two were deep throws to Hyatt, one was a deep throw to Slayton.
Passing plays are designed with a progression of reads the QB goes through. If the first option is open that's where the ball goes. The QB doesn't take a look at any other option to see if they might be open. The Giants offense under Daboll has relied on quick short routes, especially with all the injuries on the O line.
That table doesn't include TEs. But keep in mind Waller drew 145 targets in 2020. That's who Schoen was gambling on.
My hope is the draft shakes out in a way where the Vikings can move to number 5, and the Giants pick up 11 and 23. And they can reasonably attack WR and QB.
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Believe there were multiple snaps in the LVR game where Jalin was wide open and Jones didn’t even look his way.
We know you hate Jones, but the facts are he threw 9 passes in that game before getting hurt. The first two were short passes on quick reads. Two were deep throws to Hyatt, one was a deep throw to Slayton.
Passing plays are designed with a progression of reads the QB goes through. If the first option is open that's where the ball goes. The QB doesn't take a look at any other option to see if they might be open. The Giants offense under Daboll has relied on quick short routes, especially with all the injuries on the O line.
Facts?! They don’t want to hear that.
My pie in the sky wish is still WR in 1 and Bo Nix in 2.
Regardless, we aren't fixing every unit this year - lets hope we draft well and add good pieces.
I think if the Giants get competent quarterback play this group will exceed expectations. If they can get someone who is a good deep thrower and can deliver the ball outside the numbers I think Slayton and Hyatt can flourish.
Totally agree with this, if healthy.
yes, no true #1 guy. but hyatt and slayton are different players if the qb has time to throw. wasn't ceedee lamb gushing about robinson recently?
We now also have a pretty bad group of RBs.
With Hyatt and Robinson running most of the Y & Z routes, could we have BFW run some of the X-receiver stuff? I mean, I hope we come away from the draft with someone potentially better, but if not that might mean we drafted our QB. If the latter is true, we'll have money to spend on a UFA WR1 or can draft one in 25.
With Hyatt and Robinson running most of the Y & Z routes, could we have BFW run some of the X-receiver stuff? I mean, I hope we come away from the draft with someone potentially better, but if not that might mean we drafted our QB. If the latter is true, we'll have money to spend on a UFA WR1 or can draft one in 25.
He didn't really stand out last year. His best hope before he got hurt was as a gunner. I doubt he makes it out of camp.
He's not someone you can really rely upon in a big spot.
You want a QB for Babs to develop.....take him in rd 2 or 3.
He's not someone you can really rely upon in a big spot.
The irony is hilarious
You can’t help having bad takes. I’ve got plenty of lanes.
But hey remember how you came after me for saying the Giants are high on McCarthy and then they brought him in for a top 30 visit a couple of days later?