Training to play football and not for "combine" type events, I totally understand this. Teams aren't going to move him up on their boards by running a fast 40, there's nothing to gain, a lot to lose.
He's been pretty transparent that he's not been training for the workout drills, and instead has focused on football.
I've only had tangential knowledge of someone training for the combine, but my understanding is the day after the drills it's back to football. I've heard it described like making weight for a boxing match, and then it's getting back to who you really are.
MHJ is a great prospect no doubt but watch him run routes. Hes lazy rounded route running and got by with pure size and athletic ability. Different in the pros. Not much imo separates him Nabers and Rome
I hope so. Talent aside (and the other 3 are right up there), this would be concerning to me if I was going to be coaching him.
I never understand people who get their panties in a knot about things like this. Put yourself in his situation and ask why you would go through the dog and pony show that the workouts are? Really- on talent he should go #1, but we know QB scarcity means he goes after the top 3- and no workout will change that.
Really, would you go through an interview for a job if you already were told you were hired and got the paperwork to fill out? Of course you wouldn’t- you could screw things up by saying something wrong. No different here.
He's been pretty transparent that he's not been training for the workout drills, and instead has focused on football.
I've only had tangential knowledge of someone training for the combine, but my understanding is the day after the drills it's back to football. I've heard it described like making weight for a boxing match, and then it's getting back to who you really are.
A friend of mines brother played in the NFL, went through the combine process etc...
What you're saying is pretty accurate to what he described, I'm paraphrasing but his comment was something like "my brother had to take a break from football for a few months to train for the combine".
He also commented that he didn't feel like he was in "football shape" for a solid few months afterwards.
He asked the 9 teams he met with in Indy if they needed to see anything at Pro Day. They all said no.
Isn't this all there is?
You're forgetting the fans who need to see a guy risk injury and interrupt his football training, so that they can measure his heart and more importantly subservience to an antiquated pageant with little relationship to the game.
There is a purpose to the testing. I am not just talking about the timed 40 and the bench press. You can learn a lot from the on field drills. The way a player moves, stiffness in their hips, functional flexibility in their ankles, reaction time etc.
Obviously it is just a piece of the puzzle. The on field “tape” is still the main variable. However, i am guessing scouts may have seen some of the issues with Neal had he done drills (whether combine or pro day). I remember watching Okudah at the combine and you could see some of the stiffness in his hips on the CB drills.
There is a purpose to the testing. I am not just talking about the timed 40 and the bench press. You can learn a lot from the on field drills. The way a player moves, stiffness in their hips, functional flexibility in their ankles, reaction time etc.
Obviously it is just a piece of the puzzle. The on field “tape” is still the main variable. However, i am guessing scouts may have seen some of the issues with Neal had he done drills (whether combine or pro day). I remember watching Okudah at the combine and you could see some of the stiffness in his hips on the CB drills.
I'm sure there is a lot to gain for many prospects heading into the draft. If there was a lot to gain from it for this prospect specifically I can't imagine all 9 teams he met with telling him he doesn't need to do anything there.
I think some people on here just like to make big deals out of nothing.
Would go a long way to getting us a top 4 QB if we want one. At worst, we’d have to flip with the Bolts, but when you look at their offseason so far, are they passing up on Nabers or Odunze at 6?
As for us, I see a very likely scenario today where we are looking at either McCarthy or the Nabers/Odunze (whoever Bolts don’t pick).
Would go a long way to getting us a top 4 QB if we want one. At worst, we’d have to flip with the Bolts, but when you look at their offseason so far, are they passing up on Nabers or Odunze at 6?
As for us, I see a very likely scenario today where we are looking at either McCarthy or the Nabers/Odunze (whoever Bolts don’t pick).
Are they passing up on Nabers or Odunze at 5 that should read.
I understand the guy had a great career but it's still a little bit of a red flag for me that he feels like he needs to do absolutely nothing at the combine or at the pro day. Something is off about it.
I think some people on here just like to make big deals out of nothing.
I think there is a part of the human condition that assumes the way things were was right because that's how it was. That type of thinking doesn't leave a lot of room to reflect on how inadequate an old approach was, or that there is a better way to do it now.
I hope so. Talent aside (and the other 3 are right up there), this would be concerning to me if I was going to be coaching him.
I never understand people who get their panties in a knot about things like this. Put yourself in his situation and ask why you would go through the dog and pony show that the workouts are? Really- on talent he should go #1, but we know QB scarcity means he goes after the top 3- and no workout will change that.
Really, would you go through an interview for a job if you already were told you were hired and got the paperwork to fill out? Of course you wouldn’t- you could screw things up by saying something wrong. No different here.
The issue is attitude. Will he do all the extra work the coaches expect of him if he doesn’t think it’s necessary?
He worked his while life to become the athlete he is and I can guarantee he’s not afraid of getting injured running in a straight line or around some cones. So why is he not willing to show his skills?
The issue is attitude. Will he do all the extra work the coaches expect of him if he doesn’t think it’s necessary?
He worked his while life to become the athlete he is and I can guarantee he’s not afraid of getting injured running in a straight line or around some cones. So why is he not willing to show his skills?
MHJ had 9 job interviews and all of those potential future employers said that don't need anything else from him. So he is standing down for now.
The stories of the work ethic came soon after, as Harrison Jr. ended up being so dedicated that his work ethic pushed the veterans in the wide receiver room. Marotti said Harrison Jr. would bring groups in to catch balls before 6 a.m. lifts.
I don't want anyone to remember the awards, touchdowns, yards, whatever it may be. I just want people to remember the person who I was, you know? In the building, how was I as a teammate? How was my work ethic? I think my legacy will be my work ethic and the influence I had on my teammates. Most important is that I was the guy that treated everyone equally and said hi to everyone. I just want that to be remembered for that.
First off, the fact that he asked multiple teams is a big part of this.
Second, he has competed and earned the right to be considered as sure as draft prospect as there's been in recent memory. But then again, I lean toward the actual college football season being the "meat and potatoes" of the prospect evaluation. When a guy is a dominant player at a dominant school (at a position and a school known for churning out great pros), what more as a talent evaluator do you need to see?
Lastly, there is an element of injury/financial risk, so definitely can't ignore that.
“You will ask anybody on our team and they’ll be like, ‘Oh yeah there’s Marvin working by himself,’” Day said. “He’s been blessed with talent, but he has unbelievable discipline and it takes a tremendous amount of talent with disciplined skill. That’s what you’re seeing right there.”
that the combine and other so many similar team workout events are really for the guys who are either trying to move up on boards, or get some attention they may not have received, to that point.
Not working out doesn't necessarily just mean someone is a slacker or is trying to conceal something. I think many jump to those conclusions very quickly.
“You will ask anybody on our team and they’ll be like, ‘Oh yeah there’s Marvin working by himself,’” Day said. “He’s been blessed with talent, but he has unbelievable discipline and it takes a tremendous amount of talent with disciplined skill. That’s what you’re seeing right there.”
How Marvin Harrison Jr.’s work ethic allows him to make the spectacular look routine - ( New Window )
If he has all this disciplined skill why did he choose to do nothing at all?
on the best way to get prepared for the NFL. I mean, Michael Crabtree got drafted at #10 without working out and MHJ is a far superior prospect. I think the Harrisons know what's more important here for career earnings.
“You will ask anybody on our team and they’ll be like, ‘Oh yeah there’s Marvin working by himself,’” Day said. “He’s been blessed with talent, but he has unbelievable discipline and it takes a tremendous amount of talent with disciplined skill. That’s what you’re seeing right there.”
How Marvin Harrison Jr.’s work ethic allows him to make the spectacular look routine - ( New Window )
If he has all this disciplined skill why did he choose to do nothing at all?
What’s the benefit? We get it your guy “competed”. There’s zero benefit to MHJ running a 40 yard dash.
Keon Coleman had a terrible 40 time, but it’s fairly easy to tell on tape he’s faster than that on the field. But now there’s a black mark on his record. The tape is the tape.
“You will ask anybody on our team and they’ll be like, ‘Oh yeah there’s Marvin working by himself,’” Day said. “He’s been blessed with talent, but he has unbelievable discipline and it takes a tremendous amount of talent with disciplined skill. That’s what you’re seeing right there.”
How Marvin Harrison Jr.’s work ethic allows him to make the spectacular look routine - ( New Window )
If he has all this disciplined skill why did he choose to do nothing at all?
I feel like it’s just a hard troll right now. Everyone has been listing the reasons why, and you keep asking why. In reality you just think what you think despite very real and tangible answers to your question.
1. Risk/reward, he has nothing to gain and everything to lose
2. He’s talked to teams about it already
3. Nothing on display at his pro day isn’t already available at game speed 40 times already.
“You will ask anybody on our team and they’ll be like, ‘Oh yeah there’s Marvin working by himself,’” Day said. “He’s been blessed with talent, but he has unbelievable discipline and it takes a tremendous amount of talent with disciplined skill. That’s what you’re seeing right there.”
How Marvin Harrison Jr.’s work ethic allows him to make the spectacular look routine - ( New Window )
If he has all this disciplined skill why did he choose to do nothing at all?
Imagine a scenario where you are applying for a job, and there was a legacy test to qualify for the position. But all of the companies you were applying to, directly told you don't need to take that test.
Would it be a reflection of your discipline if you in fact did not take that test?
Would it be a reflection of your discipline if you in fact actually prepared for the work they were hiring you to do?
I just don't like that guy very much. He seems to be 100 attitude about himself and he hasn't played a single down in the NFL. I'd prefer to draft Rome Odunze.
I just don't like that guy very much. He seems to be 100 attitude about himself and he hasn't played a single down in the NFL. I'd prefer to draft Rome Odunze.
Can you point to a single piece of evidence or a single example that indicates he is "100 attitude about himself?"
Again, all of you guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying.
This shouldn't be a reason that anyone doesn't draft the guy. Just saying that it is just a little bit weird at this point. He hasn't proven anything yet. I understand the fear of injury or maybe running slower than he expected or whatever.
But I don't think you can just rely on tape. Odell Beckham's tape wasn't amazing by any means, but after the drills and pro day etc, everyone could tell he was a world class athlete.
It also shocks me that Harrison Jr. isn't even doing interviews. That is almost worse to me than choosing not to run.
Ohio State WR Marvin Harrison Jr. didn't speak with reporters at the 2024 NFL Combine, but he did meet with the Arizona Cardinals this week according to head coach Jonathan Gannon.
"He's very thought out, very mature. It was a really good interview," he said on Arizona Sports' Wolf and Luke on Friday.
Ohio State WR Marvin Harrison Jr. didn't speak with reporters at the 2024 NFL Combine, but he did meet with the Arizona Cardinals this week according to head coach Jonathan Gannon.
"He's very thought out, very mature. It was a really good interview," he said on Arizona Sports' Wolf and Luke on Friday.
Again, all of you guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying.
This shouldn't be a reason that anyone doesn't draft the guy. Just saying that it is just a little bit weird at this point. He hasn't proven anything yet. I understand the fear of injury or maybe running slower than he expected or whatever.
But I don't think you can just rely on tape. Odell Beckham's tape wasn't amazing by any means, but after the drills and pro day etc, everyone could tell he was a world class athlete.
It also shocks me that Harrison Jr. isn't even doing interviews. That is almost worse to me than choosing not to run.
Odell tape was pretty fucking good, what are you even talking about? He was top 25 in the country in yards and averaged 20 yards per catch.
Ordinarily, there aren't prospects who are as highly reviewed as Marvin Harrison Jr. I cannot imagine a single draft scenario where he falls beyond number six. The expected signing bonus for six is 17.5 million, going up to 24.8 million for number one.
If he tears his ACL in a workout, I suspect he still probably goes in the first round. But it would cost him at least 10 million in signing bonus. There's just no upside to him going.
Also, Harrison did participate last year at Ohio State's pro day. He caught passes from Stroud.
Again, all of you guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying.
This shouldn't be a reason that anyone doesn't draft the guy. Just saying that it is just a little bit weird at this point. He hasn't proven anything yet. I understand the fear of injury or maybe running slower than he expected or whatever.
But I don't think you can just rely on tape. Odell Beckham's tape wasn't amazing by any means, but after the drills and pro day etc, everyone could tell he was a world class athlete.
It also shocks me that Harrison Jr. isn't even doing interviews. That is almost worse to me than choosing not to run.
he wasn’t the first WR taken and had incentive to workout and possibly move up. It was also 10 years ago, the whole process is just different now, more top picks are going to deprioritize the combine and optional workouts, the GMs are adapting to it, so should fans.
you are already set for life. You only need to live until draft Day . The goal is no longer to become a star player in the NFL. The goal is be drafted high enough that the signing bonus will make you a millionaire .
he wasn’t the first WR taken and had incentive to workout and possibly move up. It was also 10 years ago, the whole process is just different now, more top picks are going to deprioritize the combine and optional workouts, the GMs are adapting to it, so should fans.
he wasn’t the first WR taken and had incentive to workout and possibly move up. It was also 10 years ago, the whole process is just different now, more top picks are going to deprioritize the combine and optional workouts, the GMs are adapting to it, so should fans.
I hope so. Talent aside (and the other 3 are right up there), this would be concerning to me if I was going to be coaching him.
I never understand people who get their panties in a knot about things like this. Put yourself in his situation and ask why you would go through the dog and pony show that the workouts are? Really- on talent he should go #1, but we know QB scarcity means he goes after the top 3- and no workout will change that.
Really, would you go through an interview for a job if you already were told you were hired and got the paperwork to fill out? Of course you wouldn’t- you could screw things up by saying something wrong. No different here.
The issue is attitude. Will he do all the extra work the coaches expect of him if he doesn’t think it’s necessary?
He worked his while life to become the athlete he is and I can guarantee he’s not afraid of getting injured running in a straight line or around some cones. So why is he not willing to show his skills?
This is gaslighting.
The player has NO reason to do this- and you are trying to turn it into a fault of the player. No, it is the dog and pony show the NFL demands to sell product to fans- and now the NFL is worried that the players are killing their financial golden goose by not playing their meaningless games.
Again, super funny that you guys just choose to mock and disagree with everything I say nowadays.
Sorry you can't handle someone having a difference of opinion about a top prospect basically choosing to sit out the entire process.
Not saying its a reason to avoid drafting him, its just a weird look in my opinion. The guy is pretty much a mystery to anyone who was at the combine or pro day.
And yeah, sorry if you don't remember correctly but Beckham's combine was fantastic, had one of the best combine's of any position player, the 40 time, 3 cone, etc, all fantastic. He was the talk of the WR group after it and it absolutely helped his draft stock.
Also, it is somewhat odd for a receiver who is completely healthy to not run at all at either the combine or pro day. It is one of the few things you are judged on for a WR and nobody knows his timed speed.
for the combine/pro day. And it probably speaks to the antiquated benchmarks that teams rely on. I'm on team Harrison here, if you are training to be a professional football player, why would stop your training just to hit some useless numbers that can only hurt your stock?
We have seen it a thousand times that raw atheleticism doesn't directly translate to footbal speed/atheleticism.
I hope more athletes take Harrison's stance in the future.
for the combine/pro day. And it probably speaks to the antiquated benchmarks that teams rely on. I'm on team Harrison here, if you are training to be a professional football player, why would stop your training just to hit some useless numbers that can only hurt your stock?
We have seen it a thousand times that raw atheleticism doesn't directly translate to footbal speed/atheleticism.
I hope more athletes take Harrison's stance in the future.
Again, super funny that you guys just choose to mock and disagree with everything I say nowadays.
Sorry you can't handle someone having a difference of opinion about a top prospect basically choosing to sit out the entire process.
Not saying its a reason to avoid drafting him, its just a weird look in my opinion. The guy is pretty much a mystery to anyone who was at the combine or pro day.
And yeah, sorry if you don't remember correctly but Beckham's combine was fantastic, had one of the best combine's of any position player, the 40 time, 3 cone, etc, all fantastic. He was the talk of the WR group after it and it absolutely helped his draft stock.
Maybe because it’s because you never back off from your archaic takes. When presented with new, modern way of thinking and different perspectives, do you ever consider it and reevaluate or do you just dig in to your stance?
Again, super funny that you guys just choose to mock and disagree with everything I say nowadays.
Sorry you can't handle someone having a difference of opinion about a top prospect basically choosing to sit out the entire process.
Not saying its a reason to avoid drafting him, its just a weird look in my opinion. The guy is pretty much a mystery to anyone who was at the combine or pro day.
And yeah, sorry if you don't remember correctly but Beckham's combine was fantastic, had one of the best combine's of any position player, the 40 time, 3 cone, etc, all fantastic. He was the talk of the WR group after it and it absolutely helped his draft stock.
It sounds like the other way around, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill but saying you aren’t.
Yeah, Beckham wasn’t the consensus #1 WR, so it helped him. There’s nothing Harrison can do to get selected over 2 or 3 or even 4 QBs. Don’t you see the difference?
I'm actually not making a mountain out of a mole hill. I literally said it's just a bit weird at this point, not a red flag, and should just be monitored as to why the guy is refusing to do stuff.
Again, everyone misinterpreting what I'm saying because you think otherwise.
I'm actually not making a mountain out of a mole hill. I literally said it's just a bit weird at this point, not a red flag, and should just be monitored as to why the guy is refusing to do stuff.
Again, everyone misinterpreting what I'm saying because you think otherwise.
Interpreting you is a tough task amigo.
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ryanmkeane : 9:30 am : link : reply
I understand the guy had a great career but it's still a little bit of a red flag for me that he feels like he needs to do absolutely nothing at the combine or at the pro day. Something is off about it.
being a lack of desire to compete (in this thread and others). You say we aren’t interpreting it correctly, but we are.
If you truly thought it was just strange you’d say that and then probably never open the thread again. I don’t get all the back and forth if it’s actually nothing.
Ah so the 40 yard dash is now just for "show" and means nothing? That's a new one.
You don't have to respond to every single post i make to somehow make it about Jones. you really don't. I know you can't help yourself but you really gotta find another lane.
1. You have to train to run the 40 to get a good time. You don't just show up to the track and try your best. He's choosing to invest that time in his rookie year performance.
2. Running a good 40 time does nothing to improve his draft prospects. As noted teams already know how fast he is. The downside is a less than stellar time or an injury.
3. He's not hiding an existing injury because he's running routes for the teams.
Again, all of you guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying.
This shouldn't be a reason that anyone doesn't draft the guy. Just saying that it is just a little bit weird at this point. He hasn't proven anything yet. I understand the fear of injury or maybe running slower than he expected or whatever.
But I don't think you can just rely on tape. Odell Beckham's tape wasn't amazing by any means, but after the drills and pro day etc, everyone could tell he was a world class athlete.
It also shocks me that Harrison Jr. isn't even doing interviews. That is almost worse to me than choosing not to run.
Odell tape was pretty fucking good, what are you even talking about? He was top 25 in the country in yards and averaged 20 yards per catch.
The combine isn’t what got Odell drafted 13th.
You are correct... His tape was insanely good and in fact he was expected to run in teh 4.3s... He actually got knocked down for running a 4.47 I think. So the combine hurt him more than helped him.
Ah so the 40 yard dash is now just for "show" and means nothing? That's a new one.
You think Anquan Boldin's 4.71 40 impacted his ability to play football? Guy is top 15 all time in receiving yards.
Larry Fitzgerald (2nd overall) ran a 4.63. Separation ability and route running ability matter way more then a 40 time. You will only pick up the first two items from game footage.
Which was still #4 for WRs I believe. He was expected in the mid 4.3s
Yeah exactly. I remember people going oh maybe he isn't explosive as his tape shows. The combine didn't make OBJ though. His game tape was insane.
In fact from Odell himself:
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I'm going to keep it real, I think it's a lot more politics. I remember going into all the rooms and they're like 'you can only bench seven [times] on the bench press.' And I'm like 'bench is not football.'
In one play, you're not going to [hit someone] 32 times in one play, you're going to seven times. It's going to be one .... At the end of the day, the eye in the sky never lies.
You can go watch that film, you turn it on, you'll be able to see - no matter what they did at the combine - you can watch what they do when they're playing football."
I agree 110% no workout at the combine, pro day, or private would be off the board for me as far as a round one pick. Evan Neal is the obvious example of what the consequences for that are. People don't work out if they have something to hide.
I've only had tangential knowledge of someone training for the combine, but my understanding is the day after the drills it's back to football. I've heard it described like making weight for a boxing match, and then it's getting back to who you really are.
MHJ is a great prospect no doubt but watch him run routes. Hes lazy rounded route running and got by with pure size and athletic ability. Different in the pros. Not much imo separates him Nabers and Rome
Quote:
By Arizona he will be picked at 4.
I hope so. Talent aside (and the other 3 are right up there), this would be concerning to me if I was going to be coaching him.
I never understand people who get their panties in a knot about things like this. Put yourself in his situation and ask why you would go through the dog and pony show that the workouts are? Really- on talent he should go #1, but we know QB scarcity means he goes after the top 3- and no workout will change that.
Really, would you go through an interview for a job if you already were told you were hired and got the paperwork to fill out? Of course you wouldn’t- you could screw things up by saying something wrong. No different here.
I've only had tangential knowledge of someone training for the combine, but my understanding is the day after the drills it's back to football. I've heard it described like making weight for a boxing match, and then it's getting back to who you really are.
A friend of mines brother played in the NFL, went through the combine process etc...
What you're saying is pretty accurate to what he described, I'm paraphrasing but his comment was something like "my brother had to take a break from football for a few months to train for the combine".
He also commented that he didn't feel like he was in "football shape" for a solid few months afterwards.
The motion capture software is so good, you can measure relative speed accurately in real-game scenarios.
The guess on how speed and agility translates to the field is getting less necessary.
But how can we be sure this isn't Disease of Me? I mean, viruses mutate...
Probably this
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He asked the 9 teams he met with in Indy if they needed to see anything at Pro Day. They all said no.
Isn't this all there is?
Isn't this all there is?
You're forgetting the fans who need to see a guy risk injury and interrupt his football training, so that they can measure his heart and more importantly subservience to an antiquated pageant with little relationship to the game.
Obviously it is just a piece of the puzzle. The on field “tape” is still the main variable. However, i am guessing scouts may have seen some of the issues with Neal had he done drills (whether combine or pro day). I remember watching Okudah at the combine and you could see some of the stiffness in his hips on the CB drills.
Obviously it is just a piece of the puzzle. The on field “tape” is still the main variable. However, i am guessing scouts may have seen some of the issues with Neal had he done drills (whether combine or pro day). I remember watching Okudah at the combine and you could see some of the stiffness in his hips on the CB drills.
I'm sure there is a lot to gain for many prospects heading into the draft. If there was a lot to gain from it for this prospect specifically I can't imagine all 9 teams he met with telling him he doesn't need to do anything there.
I think some people on here just like to make big deals out of nothing.
As for us, I see a very likely scenario today where we are looking at either McCarthy or the Nabers/Odunze (whoever Bolts don’t pick).
As for us, I see a very likely scenario today where we are looking at either McCarthy or the Nabers/Odunze (whoever Bolts don’t pick).
Are they passing up on Nabers or Odunze at 5 that should read.
I think there is a part of the human condition that assumes the way things were was right because that's how it was. That type of thinking doesn't leave a lot of room to reflect on how inadequate an old approach was, or that there is a better way to do it now.
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In comment 16439825 JT039 said:
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By Arizona he will be picked at 4.
I hope so. Talent aside (and the other 3 are right up there), this would be concerning to me if I was going to be coaching him.
I never understand people who get their panties in a knot about things like this. Put yourself in his situation and ask why you would go through the dog and pony show that the workouts are? Really- on talent he should go #1, but we know QB scarcity means he goes after the top 3- and no workout will change that.
Really, would you go through an interview for a job if you already were told you were hired and got the paperwork to fill out? Of course you wouldn’t- you could screw things up by saying something wrong. No different here.
He worked his while life to become the athlete he is and I can guarantee he’s not afraid of getting injured running in a straight line or around some cones. So why is he not willing to show his skills?
The issue is attitude. Will he do all the extra work the coaches expect of him if he doesn’t think it’s necessary?
He worked his while life to become the athlete he is and I can guarantee he’s not afraid of getting injured running in a straight line or around some cones. So why is he not willing to show his skills?
MHJ had 9 job interviews and all of those potential future employers said that don't need anything else from him. So he is standing down for now.
But on BBI it means he has an attitude problem.
He competed on the field for 3 years
Marvin Harrison Jr.'s unmatched work ethic leads Ohio State - ( New Window )
I don't want anyone to remember the awards, touchdowns, yards, whatever it may be. I just want people to remember the person who I was, you know? In the building, how was I as a teammate? How was my work ethic? I think my legacy will be my work ethic and the influence I had on my teammates. Most important is that I was the guy that treated everyone equally and said hi to everyone. I just want that to be remembered for that.
Link - ( New Window )
Second, he has competed and earned the right to be considered as sure as draft prospect as there's been in recent memory. But then again, I lean toward the actual college football season being the "meat and potatoes" of the prospect evaluation. When a guy is a dominant player at a dominant school (at a position and a school known for churning out great pros), what more as a talent evaluator do you need to see?
Lastly, there is an element of injury/financial risk, so definitely can't ignore that.
How Marvin Harrison Jr.’s work ethic allows him to make the spectacular look routine - ( New Window )
The first 9 teams all think he has an attitude/work ethic problem.
Not working out doesn't necessarily just mean someone is a slacker or is trying to conceal something. I think many jump to those conclusions very quickly.
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“You will ask anybody on our team and they’ll be like, ‘Oh yeah there’s Marvin working by himself,’” Day said. “He’s been blessed with talent, but he has unbelievable discipline and it takes a tremendous amount of talent with disciplined skill. That’s what you’re seeing right there.”
How Marvin Harrison Jr.’s work ethic allows him to make the spectacular look routine - ( New Window )
If he has all this disciplined skill why did he choose to do nothing at all?
Once you realize that a person doesn’t care to consistently learn, arguing with them becomes fruitless.
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Quote:
“You will ask anybody on our team and they’ll be like, ‘Oh yeah there’s Marvin working by himself,’” Day said. “He’s been blessed with talent, but he has unbelievable discipline and it takes a tremendous amount of talent with disciplined skill. That’s what you’re seeing right there.”
How Marvin Harrison Jr.’s work ethic allows him to make the spectacular look routine - ( New Window )
If he has all this disciplined skill why did he choose to do nothing at all?
What’s the benefit? We get it your guy “competed”. There’s zero benefit to MHJ running a 40 yard dash.
Keon Coleman had a terrible 40 time, but it’s fairly easy to tell on tape he’s faster than that on the field. But now there’s a black mark on his record. The tape is the tape.
Quote:
Quote:
“You will ask anybody on our team and they’ll be like, ‘Oh yeah there’s Marvin working by himself,’” Day said. “He’s been blessed with talent, but he has unbelievable discipline and it takes a tremendous amount of talent with disciplined skill. That’s what you’re seeing right there.”
How Marvin Harrison Jr.’s work ethic allows him to make the spectacular look routine - ( New Window )
If he has all this disciplined skill why did he choose to do nothing at all?
I feel like it’s just a hard troll right now. Everyone has been listing the reasons why, and you keep asking why. In reality you just think what you think despite very real and tangible answers to your question.
1. Risk/reward, he has nothing to gain and everything to lose
2. He’s talked to teams about it already
3. Nothing on display at his pro day isn’t already available at game speed 40 times already.
How Marvin Harrison Jr.’s work ethic allows him to make the spectacular look routine - ( New Window )
If he has all this disciplined skill why did he choose to do nothing at all?
He's not doing "nothing at all."
Imagine a scenario where you are applying for a job, and there was a legacy test to qualify for the position. But all of the companies you were applying to, directly told you don't need to take that test.
Would it be a reflection of your discipline if you in fact did not take that test?
Would it be a reflection of your discipline if you in fact actually prepared for the work they were hiring you to do?
Can you point to a single piece of evidence or a single example that indicates he is "100 attitude about himself?"
This shouldn't be a reason that anyone doesn't draft the guy. Just saying that it is just a little bit weird at this point. He hasn't proven anything yet. I understand the fear of injury or maybe running slower than he expected or whatever.
But I don't think you can just rely on tape. Odell Beckham's tape wasn't amazing by any means, but after the drills and pro day etc, everyone could tell he was a world class athlete.
It also shocks me that Harrison Jr. isn't even doing interviews. That is almost worse to me than choosing not to run.
"He's very thought out, very mature. It was a really good interview," he said on Arizona Sports' Wolf and Luke on Friday.
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Ohio State WR Marvin Harrison Jr. didn't speak with reporters at the 2024 NFL Combine, but he did meet with the Arizona Cardinals this week according to head coach Jonathan Gannon.
"He's very thought out, very mature. It was a really good interview," he said on Arizona Sports' Wolf and Luke on Friday.
OK, cool.
This shouldn't be a reason that anyone doesn't draft the guy. Just saying that it is just a little bit weird at this point. He hasn't proven anything yet. I understand the fear of injury or maybe running slower than he expected or whatever.
But I don't think you can just rely on tape. Odell Beckham's tape wasn't amazing by any means, but after the drills and pro day etc, everyone could tell he was a world class athlete.
It also shocks me that Harrison Jr. isn't even doing interviews. That is almost worse to me than choosing not to run.
Odell tape was pretty fucking good, what are you even talking about? He was top 25 in the country in yards and averaged 20 yards per catch.
The combine isn’t what got Odell drafted 13th.
If he tears his ACL in a workout, I suspect he still probably goes in the first round. But it would cost him at least 10 million in signing bonus. There's just no upside to him going.
Also, Harrison did participate last year at Ohio State's pro day. He caught passes from Stroud.
This shouldn't be a reason that anyone doesn't draft the guy. Just saying that it is just a little bit weird at this point. He hasn't proven anything yet. I understand the fear of injury or maybe running slower than he expected or whatever.
But I don't think you can just rely on tape. Odell Beckham's tape wasn't amazing by any means, but after the drills and pro day etc, everyone could tell he was a world class athlete.
It also shocks me that Harrison Jr. isn't even doing interviews. That is almost worse to me than choosing not to run.
The GMs don’t seem to care, not sure why fans do.
Odell - ( New Window )
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he wasn’t the first WR taken and had incentive to workout and possibly move up. It was also 10 years ago, the whole process is just different now, more top picks are going to deprioritize the combine and optional workouts, the GMs are adapting to it, so should fans.
The GMs don’t seem to care, not sure why fans do.
Because it's "weird" apparently.
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In comment 16439830 JoeSchoens11 said:
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In comment 16439825 JT039 said:
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By Arizona he will be picked at 4.
I hope so. Talent aside (and the other 3 are right up there), this would be concerning to me if I was going to be coaching him.
I never understand people who get their panties in a knot about things like this. Put yourself in his situation and ask why you would go through the dog and pony show that the workouts are? Really- on talent he should go #1, but we know QB scarcity means he goes after the top 3- and no workout will change that.
Really, would you go through an interview for a job if you already were told you were hired and got the paperwork to fill out? Of course you wouldn’t- you could screw things up by saying something wrong. No different here.
The issue is attitude. Will he do all the extra work the coaches expect of him if he doesn’t think it’s necessary?
He worked his while life to become the athlete he is and I can guarantee he’s not afraid of getting injured running in a straight line or around some cones. So why is he not willing to show his skills?
This is gaslighting.
The player has NO reason to do this- and you are trying to turn it into a fault of the player. No, it is the dog and pony show the NFL demands to sell product to fans- and now the NFL is worried that the players are killing their financial golden goose by not playing their meaningless games.
Sorry you can't handle someone having a difference of opinion about a top prospect basically choosing to sit out the entire process.
Not saying its a reason to avoid drafting him, its just a weird look in my opinion. The guy is pretty much a mystery to anyone who was at the combine or pro day.
And yeah, sorry if you don't remember correctly but Beckham's combine was fantastic, had one of the best combine's of any position player, the 40 time, 3 cone, etc, all fantastic. He was the talk of the WR group after it and it absolutely helped his draft stock.
We have seen it a thousand times that raw atheleticism doesn't directly translate to footbal speed/atheleticism.
I hope more athletes take Harrison's stance in the future.
Why?
We have seen it a thousand times that raw atheleticism doesn't directly translate to footbal speed/atheleticism.
I hope more athletes take Harrison's stance in the future.
Bingo
A) RFID motion tracking across a variety field and playing conditions, in pads, in real world football scenarios
B) Legacy combine/pro day measurements on one surface, without pads, not in football conditions
Sorry you can't handle someone having a difference of opinion about a top prospect basically choosing to sit out the entire process.
Not saying its a reason to avoid drafting him, its just a weird look in my opinion. The guy is pretty much a mystery to anyone who was at the combine or pro day.
And yeah, sorry if you don't remember correctly but Beckham's combine was fantastic, had one of the best combine's of any position player, the 40 time, 3 cone, etc, all fantastic. He was the talk of the WR group after it and it absolutely helped his draft stock.
Maybe because it’s because you never back off from your archaic takes. When presented with new, modern way of thinking and different perspectives, do you ever consider it and reevaluate or do you just dig in to your stance?
Sorry you can't handle someone having a difference of opinion about a top prospect basically choosing to sit out the entire process.
Not saying its a reason to avoid drafting him, its just a weird look in my opinion. The guy is pretty much a mystery to anyone who was at the combine or pro day.
And yeah, sorry if you don't remember correctly but Beckham's combine was fantastic, had one of the best combine's of any position player, the 40 time, 3 cone, etc, all fantastic. He was the talk of the WR group after it and it absolutely helped his draft stock.
It sounds like the other way around, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill but saying you aren’t.
Yeah, Beckham wasn’t the consensus #1 WR, so it helped him. There’s nothing Harrison can do to get selected over 2 or 3 or even 4 QBs. Don’t you see the difference?
A) RFID motion tracking across a variety field and playing conditions, in pads, in real world football scenarios
B) Legacy combine/pro day measurements on one surface, without pads, not in football conditions
The RFID tracking gets overlooked by a lot of people. Every team knows how fast he is on the field, running the 40 is for show.
Again, everyone misinterpreting what I'm saying because you think otherwise.
It's funny when fans worry about a thing the teams seemingly have no worries about.
Again, everyone misinterpreting what I'm saying because you think otherwise.
Interpreting you is a tough task amigo.
ryanmkeane : 9:30 am : link : reply
I understand the guy had a great career but it's still a little bit of a red flag for me that he feels like he needs to do absolutely nothing at the combine or at the pro day. Something is off about it.
If you truly thought it was just strange you’d say that and then probably never open the thread again. I don’t get all the back and forth if it’s actually nothing.
Straight line speed is an overrated attribute.
You don't have to respond to every single post i make to somehow make it about Jones. you really don't. I know you can't help yourself but you really gotta find another lane.
And yes, it’s always been for show
He has put himself in a spot to choose if he wants to.
There is absolutely no benefit for him to run.
Tyrek Hill doesn't run the 40 every spring to prove he is worth his contract.
2. Running a good 40 time does nothing to improve his draft prospects. As noted teams already know how fast he is. The downside is a less than stellar time or an injury.
3. He's not hiding an existing injury because he's running routes for the teams.
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Again, all of you guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying.
This shouldn't be a reason that anyone doesn't draft the guy. Just saying that it is just a little bit weird at this point. He hasn't proven anything yet. I understand the fear of injury or maybe running slower than he expected or whatever.
But I don't think you can just rely on tape. Odell Beckham's tape wasn't amazing by any means, but after the drills and pro day etc, everyone could tell he was a world class athlete.
It also shocks me that Harrison Jr. isn't even doing interviews. That is almost worse to me than choosing not to run.
Odell tape was pretty fucking good, what are you even talking about? He was top 25 in the country in yards and averaged 20 yards per catch.
The combine isn’t what got Odell drafted 13th.
You are correct... His tape was insanely good and in fact he was expected to run in teh 4.3s... He actually got knocked down for running a 4.47 I think. So the combine hurt him more than helped him.
You think Anquan Boldin's 4.71 40 impacted his ability to play football? Guy is top 15 all time in receiving yards.
Larry Fitzgerald (2nd overall) ran a 4.63. Separation ability and route running ability matter way more then a 40 time. You will only pick up the first two items from game footage.
Yeah exactly. I remember people going oh maybe he isn't explosive as his tape shows. The combine didn't make OBJ though. His game tape was insane.
The first 9 teams all think he has an attitude/work ethic problem.
I hope the first 5 don't want him. I would take him on the Giants in a heartbeat. All these people say we need a number 1 wideout.
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Which was still #4 for WRs I believe. He was expected in the mid 4.3s
Yeah exactly. I remember people going oh maybe he isn't explosive as his tape shows. The combine didn't make OBJ though. His game tape was insane.
In fact from Odell himself:
In one play, you're not going to [hit someone] 32 times in one play, you're going to seven times. It's going to be one .... At the end of the day, the eye in the sky never lies.
You can go watch that film, you turn it on, you'll be able to see - no matter what they did at the combine - you can watch what they do when they're playing football."
I agree 110% no workout at the combine, pro day, or private would be off the board for me as far as a round one pick. Evan Neal is the obvious example of what the consequences for that are. People don't work out if they have something to hide.