His personality is more similar to Josh Allen in how they are, but perhaps a little overly jokey in his earlier years. Sounds like he's grown as a professional.
He has a rifle for an arm, and is intelligent. This is the kind of player that with the right coaching can actually blossom in the right situation.
Outcome is drafting Maye or McCarthy, Lock stars and performs well. Gets paid in the offseason by someone else and Giants recoup a nice comp pick.
Giants go forward with the rookie.
Agreed, ideally JJM imo sit him for half a year to a year until they think he's got his improved mechanics ready for action and a real solid understanding of the offense.
The sad thing is...if there was an open/true QB competition-which I don't expect-Jones would win over Lock. That's huge bad our QB room is...its laughable.
I'm calling it now...we get off to a slow start & MetLife will be a ghost town & 'Is BB coming home?' articles will be hitting the papers before October 1st. This upcoming season could be bleak AF.
The sad thing is...if there was an open/true QB competition-which I don't expect-Jones would win over Lock. That's huge bad our QB room is...its laughable.
I'm calling it now...we get off to a slow start & MetLife will be a ghost town & 'Is BB coming home?' articles will be hitting the papers before October 1st. This upcoming season could be bleak AF.
I don’t agree and I think this is Jones fatigue/bias talking. Lock has never been good and had no chance beating out Geno and probably only beats out Jones if Jones isn’t healthy. He’s a turnover machine and has never been good.
Jones plays better. I get that a bunch of you are stuck on the first 5 games. We we on pace for OVER 100 sacks.
Both tackles were whiffing on the same play sometimes.
No one could succeed. The line settled down when DeVito was in there. I know you use this to kick Jones but I suspect Jones would have put up better stats than Devito if he had been healthy.
My current hope for 2024 is move to up three if our guy is there. If our guy is gone, Odunze and Penix and Jones out next year. Win win win
I would like to know what Daboll really thinks of Lock. Does he want
To work with Lock? Does he see Lock as a good fit for Daboll’s offense?
Fan expectation may be low and the fans may not be clamoring for Lock or the rookie before the second game.
So yes, Lock may surprise.
Lock can play QB but he isn't any good. Just like Jones.
and both very mediocre, on the radar gun at the 2019 combine. 54 mph one side, 53 mph the other. And a bit below the median for the draft class who tested.
You can believe Lock has a better arm than he showed that day, and no one can prove you wrong. But the eye can deceive, and the fact is Jones and Lock both tested mediocre and have been mediocre (or worse) passing QBs in the NFL.
Lock has been in the league five years and has a lifetime record of 9-14 with 28 TDs and 23 INTs. Not holding my breath for a revelation.
didn't play well on teams that has much better OL and a lot of offensive talent. He was throwing to Lockett, Metcalf, and Fant with a really good RB. In Denver he had Jeudy, Sutton, Patrick, Fant, etc. with a better OL. People think he is going to come here with a bad OL and way less talent on offense and suddenly be good?
I don't think he comes here if he didn't have a chance to start
And yet in a fair competition, Lock has a good shot to beat him out.
I completely disagree. He has played worse with much much much better talent around him. Last year he had a good OL, Metcalf, Lockett, JSN, Fant, Walker running the ball. Denver much better OL, Jeudy, Sutton, Patrick, Fant, etc.. He isn't going to magically get better coming to our team with less talent.
He is fearless and wants to make big plays. I’m okay with that especially if it’s 3rd down and his long pass gets picked off. I see it like a punt.
Jones on the other hand wouldn’t throw it unless the guy was clearly open. We all saw how often he would ignore a guy downfield who wasn’t open enough.
But, having said all that, I’m not a fan of either.
But you must realize that when you start this type of thread, you will risk bringing out the worst of the worst that will never, ever look at things objectively,
Admittedly, I have my own narrative and am i know I can be biased, but am totally open to an apples to apples discussion and comparison. I hate one sided, “lazy analysis!”
game is the moment I mentally checked out on the season for good..Lock destroyed them.
And yes, Lock is better than Jones right now, especially post-injury. But like Tyrod, not good enough.
Lock destroyed the Giants?
He played one series of downs and was 2-6 for 63 yards.
52 of those yards came on a TD to Noah Fant. The pass was a five yard dump to the flat. The 47 YAC consisted of Fant making the NYG defense look ridiculous dancing through misse tackles along the sideline.
great arm, size, some mobility....
ran a faster 40 than DJ... 4.68..
i put it at a 10% chance he "unlocks" lock's talent.
this is his first time under an offensive head coach in daboll...
played for fangio/caroll.
they choose him for a reason.
taylor played the best ball of his career under daboll and ran a functional NFL offense.
davis webb got his first start and looked like a competent qb.
UDFA devito looked like a starter under daboll.
got the absolute most of daniel jones in 2022. asked DJ to step up and be a more complete non gimmick QB in 2023 and he failed with terrible OL/missing thomas/barkley.
great arm, size, some mobility....
ran a faster 40 than DJ... 4.68..
i put it at a 10% chance he "unlocks" lock's talent.
this is his first time under an offensive head coach in daboll...
played for fangio/caroll.
they choose him for a reason.
taylor played the best ball of his career under daboll and ran a functional NFL offense.
davis webb got his first start and looked like a competent qb.
UDFA devito looked like a starter under daboll.
got the absolute most of daniel jones in 2022. asked DJ to step up and be a more complete non gimmick QB in 2023 and he failed with terrible OL/missing thomas/barkley.
i agree dont dismiss lock.
This is a great post.
Looking back on Lock's career, he was never really given a chance to actually prove hes a NFL QB. Sure he started 13 games in Denver, but zero consistency in coaching.
I like his prospects better than Taylor's. Maybe we get a QB in the draft, but if we don't, you could do a lot worse than someone with Lock's arm.
Lock has a much higher ceiling than DJ. My guess is, Daboll sees a lot more Josh Allen in Lock and believes he can coach him up to his best version. Which could be quite good given Lock's upside and Daboll's pedigree in coaching up quarterbacks.
So I think this is potentially much more of a Kerry Collins turnaround situation given Lock's arm talent than a washed up Craig Morton situation.
The Seattle GM didn't make something up. To the extent that DJ is the starter, it's a flimsy hold on the spot, at best.
Daboll wants to attack defenses down field. DJ has yet to prove he can do that. He showed some signs of it his rookie year, and when they signed DJ last year the belief was that they could tap into that. And yes, we did see it from him in camp --it was a huge focus last year-- but it didn't translate into games, and we even saw glimpses of it with Tyrod.
The Giants will have a vertical passing game this year, one way or another. It's no coincidence someone like Lock was signed. Even if DJ starts out as the starter, he will not last long unless he makes a major turnaround and finds a deep passing game in him. Daboll is going to play the guy who can execute his offense. So far, DJ has not shown capable.
It's hard to imagine Schoen going into the season with that lineup. It's naive, and relies on more hypothetical scenarios breaking their way than Leto Atreides in Arrakis.
great arm, size, some mobility....
ran a faster 40 than DJ... 4.68..
i put it at a 10% chance he "unlocks" lock's talent.
this is his first time under an offensive head coach in daboll...
played for fangio/caroll.
they choose him for a reason.
taylor played the best ball of his career under daboll and ran a functional NFL offense.
davis webb got his first start and looked like a competent qb.
UDFA devito looked like a starter under daboll.
got the absolute most of daniel jones in 2022. asked DJ to step up and be a more complete non gimmick QB in 2023 and he failed with terrible OL/missing thomas/barkley.
i agree dont dismiss lock.
This is a great post.
Looking back on Lock's career, he was never really given a chance to actually prove hes a NFL QB. Sure he started 13 games in Denver, but zero consistency in coaching.
I like his prospects better than Taylor's. Maybe we get a QB in the draft, but if we don't, you could do a lot worse than someone with Lock's arm.
Lock was never really given a chance? He's been in the league since 2019 just like Jones. Is this some kind of strange disease that only affects 2019 drafted QBs?
Jones has 60 starts and posters here continue to say he hasn't been given a chance and needs more time to see what we have. Lock comes here after 23 starts and playing for two teams and all of sudden it's now he hasn't been given a chance either.
But you must realize that when you start this type of thread, you will risk bringing out the worst of the worst that will never, ever look at things objectively,
Admittedly, I have my own narrative and am i know I can be biased, but am totally open to an apples to apples discussion and comparison. I hate one sided, “lazy analysis!”
I'm not trying to be provocative.
I didn't see a difference between Jones and Taylor last year.
If you accept that premise, why is it so hard to believe that Lock may also be on the same tier?
That is a fact. The dink dunk stuff will not go over. It's not Daboll's offense. Physically, we saw DJ do it in the training camp and he showed flashes in his rookie year. But in his six games last year he regressed to check down Charlie. I do think people overlook just how disoriented things were after the Dallas game. It was a shock to the system and took a while to recover. I would expect that we would see a better version of DJ this year. But even with that, the fact is, he has yet to show a down field game in him beyond hints his rookie year, and the fact is, when things started to fall last year he regressed. Even if he come out and does well, I think that's always out there with him. He can't be trusted even if he does perform and I think the coaches realize that at this point.
So even though I agree there is some truth to the arguments DJ supporters are making about his situation last year, in my mind it doesn't matter. He's never going to be the answer, and yes, Lock will be given chance to compete. Daboll will turn to the guy who can run his offense and to this point DJ has not shown capable.
RE: If DJ plays like he did last year, he won't remain the starter
That is a fact. The dink dunk stuff will not go over. It's not Daboll's offense. Physically, we saw DJ do it in the training camp and he showed flashes in his rookie year. But in his six games last year he regressed to check down Charlie. I do think people overlook just how disoriented things were after the Dallas game. It was a shock to the system and took a while to recover. I would expect that we would see a better version of DJ this year. But even with that, the fact is, he has yet to show a down field game in him beyond hints his rookie year, and the fact is, when things started to fall last year he regressed. Even if he come out and does well, I think that's always out there with him. He can't be trusted even if he does perform and I think the coaches realize that at this point.
This is the problem I've dealt with. I've tried to see it with Jones in 2024; I even was bullish on him going into 2022. But he's just looked too uninspiring against tougher competition, and when his team is going through hell, he seems to want to blend in rather than sell out to make a play. At this point, your ceiling is limited to 2022 when he could play efficiently against the weaker and average teams, and really what's the purpose of continuing through year six with that?
We are very down on Jones right now. But are people forgetting that he played above average QB in 2022? He operated the offense well with hardly any talent around him. WR1 Slayton..WR2 is Hodgins who they just let walk because he was not worth a tender. WR3 Richie James
Now, 4.5 games later…he’s worse than Drew Lock? 12 months ago he got a $160m contract and a majority of us were okay with it…
Last year was ugly. But Dallas, Seattle games were 2 of the worst OL performances I’ve ever seen. SF game they didn’t even bother running routes past the sticks because the line was so beat up, bad, and overmatched…
Also let’s not forget 2 of his INT last year bounced right off Snakequons hands…
I think he’s more the QB we saw in the 2nd half vs against AZ than he is the guy we saw in the other games. And I remember coming out of that game thinking he played lights out and carried the team to a victory…
I’m not saying Daniel Jones is great, and the injuries are 100% a concern…but to dismiss him completely after 4.5 games - in which he was sacked 30 times…I think it’s pretty unfair…
We are very down on Jones right now. But are people forgetting that he played above average QB in 2022? He operated the offense well with hardly any talent around him. WR1 Slayton..WR2 is Hodgins who they just let walk because he was not worth a tender. WR3 Richie James
Now, 4.5 games later…he’s worse than Drew Lock? 12 months ago he got a $160m contract and a majority of us were okay with it…
Last year was ugly. But Dallas, Seattle games were 2 of the worst OL performances I’ve ever seen. SF game they didn’t even bother running routes past the sticks because the line was so beat up, bad, and overmatched…
Also let’s not forget 2 of his INT last year bounced right off Snakequons hands…
I think he’s more the QB we saw in the 2nd half vs against AZ than he is the guy we saw in the other games. And I remember coming out of that game thinking he played lights out and carried the team to a victory…
I’m not saying Daniel Jones is great, and the injuries are 100% a concern…but to dismiss him completely after 4.5 games - in which he was sacked 30 times…I think it’s pretty unfair…
So you weight one half of football more than the 3+ seasons of bad football?
Lock seems to have all the tools, but he just never gets it done
Sorry, little person.
Giants go forward with the rookie.
He has a rifle for an arm, and is intelligent. This is the kind of player that with the right coaching can actually blossom in the right situation.
To be better than Jones is a low hurdle.
Now, if he can just learn how to play the position better.
This is not the QB depth chart of a serious football team. This is pre-Simms kind of shit.
But I’m intrigued simply because he’s going to throw it and should be a big upgrade from DeVito.
I feel a re-structuring coming on... ;)
This is not the QB depth chart of a serious football team. This is pre-Simms kind of shit.
How much if the Giants did you watch 1978 and prior?
That's like 2022.
The Giants had the 3rd highest WR cap hit in the whole league.
and maybe the worst production from WR in the whole league.
Giants go forward with the rookie.
Agreed, ideally JJM imo sit him for half a year to a year until they think he's got his improved mechanics ready for action and a real solid understanding of the offense.
Quote:
This is not the QB depth chart of a serious football team. This is pre-Simms kind of shit.
How much if the Giants did you watch 1978 and prior?
I confess that I've seen none, but I can imagine what a Pisarcik/Golsteyn/Dean QB room looked like.
I'm calling it now...we get off to a slow start & MetLife will be a ghost town & 'Is BB coming home?' articles will be hitting the papers before October 1st. This upcoming season could be bleak AF.
Quote:
In comment 16440645 Go Terps said:
Quote:
This is not the QB depth chart of a serious football team. This is pre-Simms kind of shit.
How much if the Giants did you watch 1978 and prior?
I confess that I've seen none, but I can imagine what a Pisarcik/Golsteyn/Dean QB room looked like.
Lol, they really did have some stinkers at qb. Some of those guys would make Jones look like Johnny Unitas
I'm calling it now...we get off to a slow start & MetLife will be a ghost town & 'Is BB coming home?' articles will be hitting the papers before October 1st. This upcoming season could be bleak AF.
I don’t agree and I think this is Jones fatigue/bias talking. Lock has never been good and had no chance beating out Geno and probably only beats out Jones if Jones isn’t healthy. He’s a turnover machine and has never been good.
Both tackles were whiffing on the same play sometimes.
No one could succeed. The line settled down when DeVito was in there. I know you use this to kick Jones but I suspect Jones would have put up better stats than Devito if he had been healthy.
My current hope for 2024 is move to up three if our guy is there. If our guy is gone, Odunze and Penix and Jones out next year. Win win win
Fan expectation may be low and the fans may not be clamoring for Lock or the rookie before the second game.
So yes, Lock may surprise.
You can believe Lock has a better arm than he showed that day, and no one can prove you wrong. But the eye can deceive, and the fact is Jones and Lock both tested mediocre and have been mediocre (or worse) passing QBs in the NFL.
Lock has been in the league five years and has a lifetime record of 9-14 with 28 TDs and 23 INTs. Not holding my breath for a revelation.
Quote:
This is not the QB depth chart of a serious football team. This is pre-Simms kind of shit.
How much if the Giants did you watch 1978 and prior?
Far too much.
Giants go forward with the rookie.
Drew Lock 2023 Highlights - ( New Window )
No, if Lock is a potential “starting answer” then this org is simply deluded.
And I watched a ton in 1978, and this is Pisarcik, Golsteyn, Dean territory.
He is not... It isn't close DeVito is garbage and at best will be on the PS next year. He may even be QB4 if we keep him.
And yes, Lock is better than Jones right now, especially post-injury. But like Tyrod, not good enough.
This is not the QB depth chart of a serious football team. This is pre-Simms kind of shit.
DJ statistically is a million times better than Drew Lock.
I completely disagree. He has played worse with much much much better talent around him. Last year he had a good OL, Metcalf, Lockett, JSN, Fant, Walker running the ball. Denver much better OL, Jeudy, Sutton, Patrick, Fant, etc.. He isn't going to magically get better coming to our team with less talent.
Jones on the other hand wouldn’t throw it unless the guy was clearly open. We all saw how often he would ignore a guy downfield who wasn’t open enough.
But, having said all that, I’m not a fan of either.
We shall see.
Admittedly, I have my own narrative and am i know I can be biased, but am totally open to an apples to apples discussion and comparison. I hate one sided, “lazy analysis!”
Quote:
Outcome is drafting Maye or McCarthy, Lock stars and performs well. Gets paid in the offseason by someone else and Giants recoup a nice comp pick.
Giants go forward with the rookie.
You really want a rookie playing behind the Giants oline? He could be sacked over 100 times!
In that scenario a rookie would be playing in 2025. Our line will be much different this year and even more different next year.
And yes, Lock is better than Jones right now, especially post-injury. But like Tyrod, not good enough.
Lock destroyed the Giants?
He played one series of downs and was 2-6 for 63 yards.
52 of those yards came on a TD to Noah Fant. The pass was a five yard dump to the flat. The 47 YAC consisted of Fant making the NYG defense look ridiculous dancing through misse tackles along the sideline.
Lock then went back to the bench.
ran a faster 40 than DJ... 4.68..
i put it at a 10% chance he "unlocks" lock's talent.
this is his first time under an offensive head coach in daboll...
played for fangio/caroll.
they choose him for a reason.
taylor played the best ball of his career under daboll and ran a functional NFL offense.
davis webb got his first start and looked like a competent qb.
UDFA devito looked like a starter under daboll.
got the absolute most of daniel jones in 2022. asked DJ to step up and be a more complete non gimmick QB in 2023 and he failed with terrible OL/missing thomas/barkley.
i agree dont dismiss lock.
Quote:
In comment 16440645 Go Terps said:
Quote:
This is not the QB depth chart of a serious football team. This is pre-Simms kind of shit.
How much if the Giants did you watch 1978 and prior?
I confess that I've seen none, but I can imagine what a Pisarcik/Golsteyn/Dean QB room looked like.
ran a faster 40 than DJ... 4.68..
i put it at a 10% chance he "unlocks" lock's talent.
this is his first time under an offensive head coach in daboll...
played for fangio/caroll.
they choose him for a reason.
taylor played the best ball of his career under daboll and ran a functional NFL offense.
davis webb got his first start and looked like a competent qb.
UDFA devito looked like a starter under daboll.
got the absolute most of daniel jones in 2022. asked DJ to step up and be a more complete non gimmick QB in 2023 and he failed with terrible OL/missing thomas/barkley.
i agree dont dismiss lock.
This is a great post.
Looking back on Lock's career, he was never really given a chance to actually prove hes a NFL QB. Sure he started 13 games in Denver, but zero consistency in coaching.
I like his prospects better than Taylor's. Maybe we get a QB in the draft, but if we don't, you could do a lot worse than someone with Lock's arm.
So I think this is potentially much more of a Kerry Collins turnaround situation given Lock's arm talent than a washed up Craig Morton situation.
Daboll wants to attack defenses down field. DJ has yet to prove he can do that. He showed some signs of it his rookie year, and when they signed DJ last year the belief was that they could tap into that. And yes, we did see it from him in camp --it was a huge focus last year-- but it didn't translate into games, and we even saw glimpses of it with Tyrod.
The Giants will have a vertical passing game this year, one way or another. It's no coincidence someone like Lock was signed. Even if DJ starts out as the starter, he will not last long unless he makes a major turnaround and finds a deep passing game in him. Daboll is going to play the guy who can execute his offense. So far, DJ has not shown capable.
Quote:
In comment 16440645 Go Terps said:
Quote:
This is not the QB depth chart of a serious football team. This is pre-Simms kind of shit.
How much if the Giants did you watch 1978 and prior?
I confess that I've seen none, but I can imagine what a Pisarcik/Golsteyn/Dean QB room looked like.
Ugh, no, you really can't imagine it.
I was thrilled when Dave Jennings trotted out onto the field.
And I'm not kidding.
Quote:
great arm, size, some mobility....
ran a faster 40 than DJ... 4.68..
i put it at a 10% chance he "unlocks" lock's talent.
this is his first time under an offensive head coach in daboll...
played for fangio/caroll.
they choose him for a reason.
taylor played the best ball of his career under daboll and ran a functional NFL offense.
davis webb got his first start and looked like a competent qb.
UDFA devito looked like a starter under daboll.
got the absolute most of daniel jones in 2022. asked DJ to step up and be a more complete non gimmick QB in 2023 and he failed with terrible OL/missing thomas/barkley.
i agree dont dismiss lock.
This is a great post.
Looking back on Lock's career, he was never really given a chance to actually prove hes a NFL QB. Sure he started 13 games in Denver, but zero consistency in coaching.
I like his prospects better than Taylor's. Maybe we get a QB in the draft, but if we don't, you could do a lot worse than someone with Lock's arm.
Lock was never really given a chance? He's been in the league since 2019 just like Jones. Is this some kind of strange disease that only affects 2019 drafted QBs?
Jones has 60 starts and posters here continue to say he hasn't been given a chance and needs more time to see what we have. Lock comes here after 23 starts and playing for two teams and all of sudden it's now he hasn't been given a chance either.
Admittedly, I have my own narrative and am i know I can be biased, but am totally open to an apples to apples discussion and comparison. I hate one sided, “lazy analysis!”
I'm not trying to be provocative.
I didn't see a difference between Jones and Taylor last year.
If you accept that premise, why is it so hard to believe that Lock may also be on the same tier?
The likelihood of DL or TD being a long term answer is pretty low, hence the desire to draft a QB.
As a bridge, I think it is fair to say DL, and maybe even TD, are in the picture.
That said...
BBI: DJ sucks, the worst ever, anyone would be better.
Also BBI: no, not that anyone. Or that other anyone. Nope, that other, other anyone is worse than DJ, too.
So even though I agree there is some truth to the arguments DJ supporters are making about his situation last year, in my mind it doesn't matter. He's never going to be the answer, and yes, Lock will be given chance to compete. Daboll will turn to the guy who can run his offense and to this point DJ has not shown capable.
This is the problem I've dealt with. I've tried to see it with Jones in 2024; I even was bullish on him going into 2022. But he's just looked too uninspiring against tougher competition, and when his team is going through hell, he seems to want to blend in rather than sell out to make a play. At this point, your ceiling is limited to 2022 when he could play efficiently against the weaker and average teams, and really what's the purpose of continuing through year six with that?
Now, 4.5 games later…he’s worse than Drew Lock? 12 months ago he got a $160m contract and a majority of us were okay with it…
Last year was ugly. But Dallas, Seattle games were 2 of the worst OL performances I’ve ever seen. SF game they didn’t even bother running routes past the sticks because the line was so beat up, bad, and overmatched…
Also let’s not forget 2 of his INT last year bounced right off Snakequons hands…
I think he’s more the QB we saw in the 2nd half vs against AZ than he is the guy we saw in the other games. And I remember coming out of that game thinking he played lights out and carried the team to a victory…
I’m not saying Daniel Jones is great, and the injuries are 100% a concern…but to dismiss him completely after 4.5 games - in which he was sacked 30 times…I think it’s pretty unfair…
Quote:
but i think Tommy Cutlets is better than both DJ and Lock.
As a passer, he just may be.
And I watched a ton in 1978, and this is Pisarcik, Golsteyn, Dean territory.
You got that right
Now, 4.5 games later…he’s worse than Drew Lock? 12 months ago he got a $160m contract and a majority of us were okay with it…
Last year was ugly. But Dallas, Seattle games were 2 of the worst OL performances I’ve ever seen. SF game they didn’t even bother running routes past the sticks because the line was so beat up, bad, and overmatched…
Also let’s not forget 2 of his INT last year bounced right off Snakequons hands…
I think he’s more the QB we saw in the 2nd half vs against AZ than he is the guy we saw in the other games. And I remember coming out of that game thinking he played lights out and carried the team to a victory…
I’m not saying Daniel Jones is great, and the injuries are 100% a concern…but to dismiss him completely after 4.5 games - in which he was sacked 30 times…I think it’s pretty unfair…
So you weight one half of football more than the 3+ seasons of bad football?