There are a lot of things I want to post but I’m obligated to wait til the week of the draft. One thing that is big is there are reportedly a handful of people in the organization that doubt jones will be able to pass a physical. Apparently he hasn’t recovered as expected from the ACL and they here has been a noticeable reduction of motion in his throwing arm.
Giants were willing to run it back with Jones but fear that his injuries in ‘23 have made him too much of a liability going forward as much as they like the man. They cannot, in good faith, rely on him going into the ‘24 season. Drew lock was signed to be the potential starter in the initial weeks when Jones’s recovery seemed to suffer a setback (Thus the explanation that Jones is still the presumptive starter). However further reports from medical doctors are leading the Giants to full pivot off Jones. It’s no longer about whether he is good enough, it’s simply come down to “will he hold up” and the Giants have been told that one more injury to the kneck will lead to retirement from Jones.
Finally. It was explained to me like this.
“Remember John McCain?”
Me: “The Governor?”
“yes. Remember he couldn’t lift his arms above his head?”
Me: “Kinda”
“Daniel Jones is one hit away”
The Giants want to go big at QB here. I know it.
All this diligence on QBs isn't smoke.
+1.
At least he got paid. Also he should have a career in coaching in the future.
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No matter what anyone’s thoughts are regarding his play at QB, this is some scary news for Jones if true and I wish him the best. I’m more than ready to move on from him but this is real life and wish him the best
+1.
+2
This.
Go co-host with Kay
If I wanted to do that, all i would have to do is start a thread with the title, "Wow! You won't believe what is about to go down!"
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😊
If I wanted to do that, all i would have to do is start a thread with the title, "Wow! You won't believe what is about to go down!"
lol, I never said you orchestrated it 😉
It wasn't just rust. His power/body torque and throwing motion looked really weird before the ACL went.
Link - ( New Window )
As for his neck, I feel for him. Never like seeing that, but he's made generational wealth.
Dole had a spinal injury from a shellburst which left him with little use of one arm.
I am legit on edge of seat... what else do you know?!?! haha
Remind me, is that what shelved him for a few games before the ACL?
I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..
I don't believe it's true though. Sounds hyperbolic.
being 5 months post-op and not being able to pass a physical would seem obvious no? kyler didnt get cleared to return to practice until about 8 months.
not doubting godeep or the reality that jones has been injured basically every year of his career except 2022, but some of this neck stuff is reminiscent of 2 years ago when people got spooked that his career was over even though they said all offseason he'd be ready for camp (which he was). in-season people said the same stuff even though chao and others (correctly as it turned out) said it as an unrelated neck injury to his previous one.
i think there are obviously legitimate concerns about his ability to stay healthy going forward but also some hyperbole about the neck that seems to not align with anything that's been credibly reported.
So as regards the injury clause, Jones passing the physical is all about the ACL. Now I understand that might take several more months, and possibly into the regular season, players heal from ACLs at different time frames, but if Jones doesn't at least pass the physical coming off this ACL, then this is an historically bad contract and an historically bad and fragile player to have bet on.
Please, tell me on the doll where the Giants liking him has hurt you...
Yes someone did post that
I think someone posted something about Jones’ throwing motion being different when he returned against the Raiders
+1. I am anti-Jones but I never, ever wanted to hear something about him physically like this. Wishing him the best.
On the flip side, didn't the Giants allow Josh Ezeudu play with a neck injury in 2022 that got worse and landed him on IR?
I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..
It's not mortgaging the future to trade up and get a QB. It's betting on the future. The Giants have no future without a viable QB on the roster.
Last year was one of the worst beatings I've ever seen a QB take.
I will go Colonel Mustard in the Ballroom with Lead Pipe.
Yes, Bisignano mentioned it on Giants Insider. His throwing motion changed after he came back, and he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
It's a fairly serious injury/condition. I've been told that I can live my life exactly like I used to, but I'm definitely hesitant to do things like go on roller coasters, etc. If I were an NFL caliber player (lol), I'd definitely risk it for my one shot of glory, but there certainly is a risk for things to get worse.
I hope DJ is ok first and foremost.
And it goes without saying that this awful for Daniel Jones the person.
Interesting point. Maybe he shouldn't have been cleared to play for the Vegas game...?
So as regards the injury clause, Jones passing the physical is all about the ACL. Now I understand that might take several more months, and possibly into the regular season, players heal from ACLs at different time frames, but if Jones doesn't at least pass the physical coming off this ACL, then this is an historically bad contract and an historically bad and fragile player to have bet on.
There's plenty of other ones to voice opinions on his performance.
This news is expected given his injuries. I couldn't imagine them being comfortable with the QB room as is.
So as regards the injury clause, Jones passing the physical is all about the ACL. Now I understand that might take several more months, and possibly into the regular season, players heal from ACLs at different time frames, but if Jones doesn't at least pass the physical coming off this ACL, then this is an historically bad contract and an historically bad and fragile player to have bet on.
And it goes without saying that this awful for Daniel Jones the person.
If Jones retires, that would be a 23M gift to the Giants.
if he got hurt to a degree he cannot play football, he has every right to collect that 23M injury guarantee on 2025.
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Wasn’t that Dole too?
Dole had a spinal injury from a shellburst which left him with little use of one arm.
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how does that affect 25 cap?
And it goes without saying that this awful for Daniel Jones the person.
If Jones retires, that would be a 23M gift to the Giants.
if he got hurt to a degree he cannot play football, he has every right to collect that 23M injury guarantee on 2025.
^^ Why on earth would he not collect that 23M guarantee? Thats why you have agents who put that in. For this very situation. DJ retiring without getting that is a loooooongshot.
The fact he isn't physically healing as quickly as he should only confirms this thinking.
Either the Giants are planting the seeds for why they go all in with a trade up to draft a QB or this is good timing.....
Giants are in a really tough spot if this is true though. There are five teams chasing a top QB and only 4 of them available. Someone is going to get left out in the cold and it very well could be the Giants if the Vikings are truly willing to do whatever it takes to move up. What a mess.
I don't meant to be crass, but from a Giants perspective, this is pretty awful too, as it would trigger the injury guarantee. While we need to move off of Jones for many reasons, doing so because he can't pass a physical is about as awful a situation as it gets for them. Jones would have no incentive to retire now, and could just stay on the team injured through March next year to secure the guarantee (which is very much his right). Would mean the Giants paid over 100 million in cap space for a 1-5 start.
Yikes all around on this
Very few people actually know what Jones neck issue was. The people who do know, almost certainly aren’t sharing it…
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That’s fine. But I am still not mortgaging my future to move up for any QB besides Williams and Maye.
I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..
It's not mortgaging the future to trade up and get a QB. It's betting on the future. The Giants have no future without a viable QB on the roster.
I wouldn't be surprised if JJM is the player us and the Vikings are trying to trade up for..
Seconded. Only thing I want to question is why they let Jones play after the neck. The ACL is what knocked him out for the year. If the ACL saved Jones from himself that's a little scary. That said it appears the Giants ran extensive tests on the neck injury (2023) :
Daboll knew all this, which is why he expressed confidence that Jones will be fine in advance of hearing about what an MRI revealed.
So they ran xrays and I am sure they did the MRI and it came back clean. What changed. MAybe nothing. Maybe he took yet another hit before the ACL...who knows.
I hope the guy is ok, but I'm also thinking the Giants want an injury excuse to take some of the egg off their faces (it doesn't).
Thanks, GoDeep13. Always appreciated. I also feel bad for DJ, he seems like a great guy and teammate. I hope he is smart and realizes life is bigger than football. He will want to raise his kids without a struggle.
I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..
1. Getting the QB is the MOST important part of that future. Without one, the future sucks
2. What gives you the impression that the Giants will be remotely close to being able to get one of those two guys ne t year? Are you assuming the Giants will be the only team looking for a QB in the next draft?
Also don't tell me you got three and only give me one!
~
No, a bidding war still isn't very smart.
Some level of an overpay is okay if your evaluations clearly warrant it just to get somebody ahead of you off the dime and trade.
But a bidding war on top of that is just bad business.
I hope the guy is ok, but I'm also thinking the Giants want an injury excuse to take some of the egg off their faces (it doesn't).
It doesn't, but it is telling, and news, that it seems like they're interested in a get out of jail free card. Of course, it would be fireable not to be interested, but that GoDeep is being made aware of these "concerns" says something.
The ankle injury in 20', the concussion in 21', - both times Jones returned early and looked out of whack. I have no doubt everything looked good on paper before the Vegas game, and they literally had no other QB options outside of DeVito, so they went with it.
The Giants should not continue these bad habits in the future.
I hope the guy is ok, but I'm also thinking the Giants want an injury excuse to take some of the egg off their faces (it doesn't).
What if this is Schoen's way of convincing Mara? Not a bad tactic?
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Now I see why Schoen might be willing to best any offer the Vikings make. Normally a bidding war isn't a good idea, but you have to strike if you have conviction in a quarterback and you likely won't be within striking distance for a while.
No, a bidding war still isn't very smart.
Some level of an overpay is okay if your evaluations clearly warrant it just to get somebody ahead of you off the dime and trade.
But a bidding war on top of that is just bad business.
True, a bidding war has been my big fear. Perhaps as we've heard here the Patriots don't want to trade down too far which could enable Schoen to maneuver around a bidding war in trading up with the Vikings. If the Pats simply don't want to move down too many spots, then the Vikings can't do much about that and it gives Schoen some nice leverage to avoid a bidding war and get this done.
I hope the guy is ok, but I'm also thinking the Giants want an injury excuse to take some of the egg off their faces (it doesn't).
I'm sure there's a very legitimate reason why the full scope of *both* his neck injuries have never been made public.
Yep, but this is the best thing for both parties. Not worth the risk to either side.
Was hoping you get another year with a decent line and a coach who learned from his brutal mistakes last year.
Agreed. Medicine is an inexact science. Sometimes, the best evidence at any given time is not enough to make the right decision or diagnosis or assessment of prognosis, even for highly skilled professionals.
Either way, if true I am glad Jones got paid and hope he retires as healthy as possible and lives a normal life.
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That’s fine. But I am still not mortgaging my future to move up for any QB besides Williams and Maye.
I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..
It's not mortgaging the future to trade up and get a QB. It's betting on the future. The Giants have no future without a viable QB on the roster.
"
Then, being "one hit away".
The rumors always include that disclaimer. It would be dumb for the Giants to do otherwise.
His arm still worked in his last action. It may have shown signs of limited ability, but the extended rest should help. last known evidence is that it worked.
If they want to, they'll clear him from the ACL, and then do what they want to cut him, or keep him.
Was hoping you get another year with a decent line and a coach who learned from his brutal mistakes last year.
I'm reminded of what Kurt Angle said a few months ago on a podcast about how the repeated neck trauma in wrestling (both amateur and pro) has affected his quality of life now.
As far as being cleared and now the injury "re-emerging", with the ACL injury we don't really know how his neck would feel after weeks of playing again.
Basically symptoms subsided enough (and nothing on imaging) to be cleared but he was taken out of stressing it because of the knee. Now as he ramps back up symptoms have returned
Either way, if true I am glad Jones got paid and hope he retires as healthy as possible and lives a normal life.
Cmon, the NFL knows we are highly interested in a QB. This scoop does nothing...
Either way, if true I am glad Jones got paid and hope he retires as healthy as possible and lives a normal life.
This certainly adds important color to the situation. Would you rather not know this?
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In comment 16441336 Breeze_94 said:
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That’s fine. But I am still not mortgaging my future to move up for any QB besides Williams and Maye.
I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..
It's not mortgaging the future to trade up and get a QB. It's betting on the future. The Giants have no future without a viable QB on the roster.
Do you think a rookie qb playing behind this line is viable? What are your expectations from a rookie qb?
Jack, you seem like a nice guy. I appreciate your support for DJ.
1. Lock would start
2. The line has been fortified with 4 FA signings, Runyan and Eluminor look to be starters.
3. The draft could bring more OL and most likley our new QB of the future. You may want to start to accept this.
That being said- it IS possible that someone with two major neck injuries suffers a lingering problem that wouldn't necessarily need a third injury to exacerbate. It could just be a worsening situation involving range of motion, strength and pain.
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But the Giants have been doing a great job keeping their plans secret if this is true. Your source is a dick for leaking this news.
Either way, if true I am glad Jones got paid and hope he retires as healthy as possible and lives a normal life.
This certainly adds important color to the situation. Would you rather not know this?
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But the Giants have been doing a great job keeping their plans secret if this is true. Your source is a dick for leaking this news.
Either way, if true I am glad Jones got paid and hope he retires as healthy as possible and lives a normal life.
Cmon, the NFL knows we are highly interested in a QB. This scoop does nothing...
Exactly, nearly every mock draft since January usually mentions that the Giants could potentially take a QB at 6 or trade up for one. Nothing posted here is some sudden earth shattering news that would impair the Giants draft plans as they relate to other teams strategy.
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In comment 16441525 Andy in Halifax said:
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But the Giants have been doing a great job keeping their plans secret if this is true. Your source is a dick for leaking this news.
Either way, if true I am glad Jones got paid and hope he retires as healthy as possible and lives a normal life.
This certainly adds important color to the situation. Would you rather not know this?
I'd rather us be good again. If that means telling the world DJ is our starter and then plucking a QB at 6 then so be it. My desire to know what's up is trumped by my desire for us to win again.
I agree, but we aren't surprising anyone with this news. Papa Mara's schill himself wrote an article about this recently even.
This is hearsay but I am told that his arm injury was an impingement that it has resolved itself. Jones had limited range of motion due to the neck injury. He tried to play threw it.
The knee is responding to treatment. If anything Jones had to be restrained because he was pushing himself too hard. There was no timetable discussed, but Jones is preparing for the season.
This is hearsay but I am told that his arm injury was an impingement that it has resolved itself. Jones had limited range of motion due to the neck injury. He tried to play threw it.
The knee is responding to treatment. If anything Jones had to be restrained because he was pushing himself too hard. There was no timetable discussed, but Jones is preparing for the season.
This sounds right, but it seems clear the Giants are done with DJ and the excuse/reason is due to injury concerns. At least that's hoe Schoen sold it to Mara.
This is hearsay but I am told that his arm injury was an impingement that it has resolved itself. Jones had limited range of motion due to the neck injury. He tried to play threw it.
The knee is responding to treatment. If anything Jones had to be restrained because he was pushing himself too hard. There was no timetable discussed, but Jones is preparing for the season.
Makes sense to me. From what I've heard Jones is a gym rat.
Screams out that he never would have played in LV if Tyrod didn't get hurt.
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That’s fine. But I am still not mortgaging my future to move up for any QB besides Williams and Maye.
I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..
1. Getting the QB is the MOST important part of that future. Without one, the future sucks
2. What gives you the impression that the Giants will be remotely close to being able to get one of those two guys ne t year? Are you assuming the Giants will be the only team looking for a QB in the next draft?
I don’t think you understand my post. Yes, getting a QB is important - hence why I mentioned Williams/Maye.
But the Giants are not getting either guy or Daniels. This fan base needs to come to terms with that. It is my opinion (and through various reports over the last week) that there is nothing they can offer (within reason) to get those top 3 teams to move off their spot.
So now the entire fan base has talked themselves into McCarthy as a guy who they should not only draft, but trade next years 1st to move up for. It would be a colossal mistake.
As for the Beck/Sanders statement - they will certainly have a better chance at either of those guys. Especially considering how awful Jones and Lock are (according to everyone around here)
“Remember John McCain?”
GD13: “The Governor?”
Me: "Governor"?
Boon: "Forget it, he's rolling"
“yes. Remember he couldn’t lift his arms above his head?”
GD13: “Kinda”
Me: "wasn't that from a plane crash or being tortured in Vietnam?"
“Daniel Jones is one hit away”
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In comment 16441336 Breeze_94 said:
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That’s fine. But I am still not mortgaging my future to move up for any QB besides Williams and Maye.
I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..
1. Getting the QB is the MOST important part of that future. Without one, the future sucks
2. What gives you the impression that the Giants will be remotely close to being able to get one of those two guys ne t year? Are you assuming the Giants will be the only team looking for a QB in the next draft?
I don’t think you understand my post. Yes, getting a QB is important - hence why I mentioned Williams/Maye.
But the Giants are not getting either guy or Daniels. This fan base needs to come to terms with that. It is my opinion (and through various reports over the last week) that there is nothing they can offer (within reason) to get those top 3 teams to move off their spot.
So now the entire fan base has talked themselves into McCarthy as a guy who they should not only draft, but trade next years 1st to move up for. It would be a colossal mistake.
As for the Beck/Sanders statement - they will certainly have a better chance at either of those guys. Especially considering how awful Jones and Lock are (according to everyone around here)
If the Patriots really want to stay within the top 6 while still trading down I don't think the 2025 1st is necessary in a trade up. We won 6 games with Devito and Tyrod Taylor while having a very tough schedule, it easily could have been 9 all while the o line was devastated with myriad injuries. This year with improved line play and pass rush along with an easier schedule I don't see us being within reach of any promising qb prospects.
Jones would be costing himself a potential 23M if he just retires.
Unless something got worst between the time of Wilson's interview and now, the Front Office HAD to know DJ's injury situation...and his injury history.
Jones simply can't stay healthy. That's not a crime, it's not Daniel's fault...but the Front Office had to try and convince Russell to sign. If that meant DJ had to sit, then the team had to make that move.
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In comment 16441336 Breeze_94 said:
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That’s fine. But I am still not mortgaging my future to move up for any QB besides Williams and Maye.
I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..
It's not mortgaging the future to trade up and get a QB. It's betting on the future. The Giants have no future without a viable QB on the roster.
I wouldn't be surprised if JJM is the player us and the Vikings are trying to trade up for..
Does seem that way. But I hope the Gia ts can land DM or JD instead. I'm not seeing it with JJM yet. Seems like more of a project.
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In comment 16441297 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Wasn’t that Dole too?
Dole had a spinal injury from a shellburst which left him with little use of one arm.
I apologize and plead full ignorance. I thought the shoulder was from torture. Even still, is the spine injury from a shell similar to his neck injury?
Sounds like the team was already going to avoid having him take a snap in 2024, but if this report it true, it is all but a certainty.
I know that many folks on the board were looking forward to moving off of Jones regardless, but it is a shame that he sustained this string of injuries.
A disappointment. Sadly we may never know what he might have been with more than 1.9 seconds to throw and someone to throw it to.
Unless something got worst between the time of Wilson's interview and now, the Front Office HAD to know DJ's injury situation...and his injury history.
Jones simply can't stay healthy. That's not a crime, it's not Daniel's fault...but the Front Office had to try and convince Russell to sign. If that meant DJ had to sit, then the team had to make that move.
Simple answer is usually right: Wilson wanted a chance to get in the playoffs and continue his legacy.
It's a fairly serious injury/condition. I've been told that I can live my life exactly like I used to, but I'm definitely hesitant to do things like go on roller coasters, etc. If I were an NFL caliber player (lol), I'd definitely risk it for my one shot of glory, but there certainly is a risk for things to get worse.
I hope DJ is ok first and foremost.
This. I also had ACDF, double fusion at C5/C6 and C6/C7. All good now, but that surgery is no joke.
Thanks, Chris, recall it now that you've put it up here.
Working my way through GoDeep13's thread--thank you for your nearly flawless insider scoops, man!!--and probably debated in depth above, but man his injury guarantee/medical/retirement come even more front and center than ever, and wasn't lying deep in the weeds to begin with. How does Schoen extricate the team from this albatross of a provision?
They may or may NOT heal completely, but the whole area will be permanently weakened and he is exponentially at risk of re-injury (which could yield FAR more serious issues).
The "smartest" thing for him to do is retire and not risk it. Professional athletes are not wired that way, they ignore risk and act like they are indestructible. They have to be dragged into retirement and that may be the case here.
In any case, the Giants would be massive Fools to move forward with this kind of risk.
They may or may NOT heal completely, but the whole area will be permanently weakened and he is exponentially at risk of re-injury (which could yield FAR more serious issues).
The "smartest" thing for him to do is retire and not risk it. Professional athletes are not wired that way, they ignore risk and act like they are indestructible. They have to be dragged into retirement and that may be the case here.
In any case, the Giants would be massive Fools to move forward with this kind of risk.
I gotta give you props...you have been talking about DJs throwing for a while now....
Quite frankly I was surprised that wasn't the end. The "one hit away" comment was thrown at me back then.
Punt on QB until next year may be the only answer
They may or may NOT heal completely, but the whole area will be permanently weakened and he is exponentially at risk of re-injury (which could yield FAR more serious issues).
The "smartest" thing for him to do is retire and not risk it. Professional athletes are not wired that way, they ignore risk and act like they are indestructible. They have to be dragged into retirement and that may be the case here.
In any case, the Giants would be massive Fools to move forward with this kind of risk.
Good stuff. I agree with AROCK. You've been on this for months.
If the neck is indeed still a major risk, what is your opinion why the staff cleared Jones to play in Vegas?
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the Giants are in a precarious spot. QBs will go 1-2-3 with a possible trade up at 4 or 5.
Punt on QB until next year may be the only answer
On the one hand, passing on QB this draft delays the development of our future rookie QB by one year; on the other hand, a one year delay should ensure more pieces in place for when our rookie QB finally arrives thereby perhaps speeding up his development.
If that makes any sense.
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In comment 16441297 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Wasn’t that Dole too?
Dole had a spinal injury from a shellburst which left him with little use of one arm.
I apologize and plead full ignorance. I thought the shoulder was from torture. Even still, is the spine injury from a shell similar to his neck injury?
McCain’s injuries were from being tortured by the VC while he was imprisoned in the Hanoi Hilton, his shoulders were wrecked thus he lost range of motion
This is also why you don't run head first into a LB when you are a QB
And that's QB.
I still think my preference in Odunze and Penix. The inherent chemistry would go a long way and Penix arm will play in E Rutherford.
So apparently we have no money even with the Dex restructure, tons of holes and no QB and probably a lot less draft picks if we draft a QB. Schoen is killing it.
I still think my preference in Odunze and Penix. The inherent chemistry would go a long way and Penix arm will play in E Rutherford.
I'd love that but I think we would have to trade a future 1st to move up from 47 into rd 1 for Pennix, maybe he slides, but I see him going earlier than most pundits think.
Sy how would you feel about this?
Williams
Daniels
Maye (to Minnesota after trade)
MHjr
Nabers/Odunze
McCarthy
More and more I have been thinking this is the likely outcome.
So true! Where do you foresee Nix and Pennix going in the draft, if you could give a range? I'm thinking 6-12 for Nix and 11-32 for Pennix.
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the Giants are in a precarious spot. QBs will go 1-2-3 with a possible trade up at 4 or 5.
Punt on QB until next year may be the only answer
If Schoen & Daboll don't do it this year they may never get the chance.
If Penix didn't have the injury history where would he be on the board?
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the Giants are in a precarious spot. QBs will go 1-2-3 with a possible trade up at 4 or 5.
Punt on QB until next year may be the only answer
Yes, we may be in this position.
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because your QB has durability concerns would be very....Giants
If Penix didn't have the injury history where would he be on the board?
The problem is going to be the run on QBs. If NYG takes Odunze or Nabers at 6, 5 of the top QBs will almost definitely be gone by 12. Whoever is last man standing (most likely Nix or Penix) is not going to last from 13 all the way to 47.
I don't think QB should ever be a position you punt.
I don't think QB should ever be a position you punt.
They may not have the chance, that’s the point.
The approach to the QB position needs to be completely rethought.
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In comment 16441312 Eric from BBI said:
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the Giants are in a precarious spot. QBs will go 1-2-3 with a possible trade up at 4 or 5.
Punt on QB until next year may be the only answer
Yes, we may be in this position.
This is what I have been saying... I just don't think we can take QB5 at pick 6... Unless one of the top 4 is Bo Nix and he has been rising up the chart. Maybe someone likes him more than JJM or Drake.
The approach to the QB position needs to be completely rethought.
I think it means punting on a first round QB... Probably the first two actually. I would bet they grab at least one QB somewhere, but do you want them taking the 5th best QB at pick 6?
It changes nothing with respect to the contract.
Schneider told the truth and the Giants are covering their ass.
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I just can't believe all (or any of) this. It's just too good to be true. The football gods can't smile on us that much and let us get out from under his contract after just one year, and so easily. So forgive my skepticism. But until I actually see it come to pass, I'll assume the worst and expect DJ to be under center for us at some point this coming season.
It changes nothing with respect to the contract.
Actually if he can't pass a physical this year at all then we are on the hook for more money next year. So the happy he is so hurt he may not be able to play again comment might have Karma catching up to that one.
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If you don't take the QB when you have the chance, you may never get the chance to. He was part of the group that passed on QB in Oakland in 2004, they all got fired.
I don't think QB should ever be a position you punt.
They may not have the chance, that’s the point.
I feel confident we could trade for pick 3 if we wanted to based on asshat reports and various other reports. Trading up to 4 or 5, I have no idea. If Schdabka have conviction on a guy, they gotta just bite the bullet and trade up to 3 for him. Seems as though Schoen feels the same way and is working to make it happen imo.
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If you don't take the QB when you have the chance, you may never get the chance to. He was part of the group that passed on QB in Oakland in 2004, they all got fired.
I don't think QB should ever be a position you punt.
They may not have the chance, that’s the point.
I don't buy that. The Vikings are actively trading up, but the Giants at #6 don't have the chance? That's a cop out imo and shame on Schoen if that's the case.
Unless something got worst between the time of Wilson's interview and now, the Front Office HAD to know DJ's injury situation...and his injury history.
Jones simply can't stay healthy. That's not a crime, it's not Daniel's fault...but the Front Office had to try and convince Russell to sign. If that meant DJ had to sit, then the team had to make that move.
Yeah, the Wilson thing makes little sense with this context.
We can offer the 1st, 2nd, and next year's first.
There comes a point when the cost is too much.
We're talking about unknown commodities, and specifically the 4th QB in the draft.
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You ask me the Giants should be drafting TWO quarterbacks, not punting on the position.
The approach to the QB position needs to be completely rethought.
I think it means punting on a first round QB... Probably the first two actually. I would bet they grab at least one QB somewhere, but do you want them taking the 5th best QB at pick 6?
I don't think it's as simple as ranking them 1-6. I think they have different qualities, and which one you draft is going to help shape the team the Giants will want to build.
Watching college football last year I thought I saw 3 players that had specific + categories: Williams has exceptional "second play" escape ability, Daniels has exceptional athletic ability, and Penix is an exceptional thrower. I didn't see anything exceptional from Maye, McCarthy, or Nix. Doesn't mean they're not good, and I'd be happy with any of them.
If I were picking at 6 I'd be happy to take Penix and build a team around his throwing ability. Use lots of 12 personnel and play action to get Slayton and Hyatt downfield.
And regardless of which of the 6 QBs we'd theoretically draft, I'd draft another as early as the fourth round.
Those is what happens when you ignore the QB position, as the Giants have, for many years. Enough already. They've got to try.
contract if ownership doesn't see the team heading in a forward direction.
What is the forward direction? Who would bet the mortgage that it's daniel jones? Do you think Daboll and Schoen want to place their futures on that unknown?
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because your QB has durability concerns would be very....Giants
If Penix didn't have the injury history where would he be on the board?
LOL, that hypothetical is so stupid, given that he DOES have the history. One cannot ignore it - as much as you seemingly want to (on post after post)....
Who the fuck cares where he would be on anyone's board without an injury history? He HAS one. End of discussion.
We can offer the 1st, 2nd, and next year's first.
There comes a point when the cost is too much.
We're talking about unknown commodities, and specifically the 4th QB in the draft.
Then there's the asshat tidbit that the Patriots would much prefer to trade down to 6 vs. 11. So, I don't think it's as simple as getting more draft capital if the Patriots want Odunze, Nabers, Alt, Nix or maybe Maye/JJM then 6 is where they would want to be.
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In comment 16441810 Sean said:
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If you don't take the QB when you have the chance, you may never get the chance to. He was part of the group that passed on QB in Oakland in 2004, they all got fired.
I don't think QB should ever be a position you punt.
They may not have the chance, that’s the point.
I don't buy that. The Vikings are actively trading up, but the Giants at #6 don't have the chance? That's a cop out imo and shame on Schoen if that's the case.
Offensively they are in much better situation than us. So them way over paying when they have Aaron Jones, one of the best WRs in the game in JJ, Jordan Addison, Hockenson, and better OL isn't as big a deal for them. They can afford to give up a ton of picks because they don't need to surround their QB with quality starters. Not saying we don't have a chance to move up, but us moving up means we can't get a good WR this year, TE, more OL, etc. So it isn't that we can't move up, just we can't sell the farm as much as they can. We need some of the farm for a million holes.
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In comment 16441816 Go Terps said:
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You ask me the Giants should be drafting TWO quarterbacks, not punting on the position.
The approach to the QB position needs to be completely rethought.
I think it means punting on a first round QB... Probably the first two actually. I would bet they grab at least one QB somewhere, but do you want them taking the 5th best QB at pick 6?
I don't think it's as simple as ranking them 1-6. I think they have different qualities, and which one you draft is going to help shape the team the Giants will want to build.
Watching college football last year I thought I saw 3 players that had specific + categories: Williams has exceptional "second play" escape ability, Daniels has exceptional athletic ability, and Penix is an exceptional thrower. I didn't see anything exceptional from Maye, McCarthy, or Nix. Doesn't mean they're not good, and I'd be happy with any of them.
If I were picking at 6 I'd be happy to take Penix and build a team around his throwing ability. Use lots of 12 personnel and play action to get Slayton and Hyatt downfield.
And regardless of which of the 6 QBs we'd theoretically draft, I'd draft another as early as the fourth round.
Those is what happens when you ignore the QB position, as the Giants have, for many years. Enough already. They've got to try.
I hear you... If Penix wasn't left handed I would like him more. Even more than his age and injury history that is my issue with him. I have seen him a ton and he can throw it. However how can we protect a Lefty? You want Neal protecting his blindside? If you got him later I can see it, but I can't give up what amounts to a lot of draft capitol to take a chance on him. I would prefer Nix to him as he is literally good in all aspects of the game just not great in any.
They could even wait for Rattler in the 2nd. But please don't tell me that they're "shut out" from the QBs. There are six - potentially 7 QBs in this draft that that have starter abilities. All three of the tier 2 QBs are within reach. The Giants have both a talent and health deficit at the position. Do something. I really hope they don't sit back passively and say they didn't have "conviction" in these guys ala Gettleman in 2018. They don't have the luxury of conviction. Find a guy you like best and coach him up.
An injured, potentially cooked Jones, and two backups in Lock and DeVito who have not shown starter quality tape, is a QB group that is the equivalent of tanking. If the Giants finish below .500 with subpar QB play, and ANY of the tier 2 roookies look good, how do you even justify bringing back Schoen? He will have fucked up the most important position on the team two offseasons in a row, and you're gonna give the privilege of picking his QB in 2025?
They could even wait for Rattler in the 2nd. But please don't tell me that they're "shut out" from the QBs. There are six - potentially 7 QBs in this draft that that have starter abilities. All three of the tier 2 QBs are within reach. The Giants have both a talent and health deficit at the position. Do something. I really hope they don't sit back passively and say they didn't have "conviction" in these guys ala Gettleman in 2018. They don't have the luxury of conviction. Find a guy you like best and coach him up.
An injured, potentially cooked Jones, and two backups in Lock and DeVito who have not shown starter quality tape, is a QB group that is the equivalent of tanking. If the Giants finish below .500 with subpar QB play, and ANY of the tier 2 roookies look good, how do you even justify bringing back Schoen? He will have fucked up the most important position on the team two offseasons in a row, and you're gonna give the privilege of picking his QB in 2025?
Correct.
As of 3/21 there are 3 buckets of options that appear to be in play.
Trade up for Maye or McCarthy.
Select McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6.
Trade back for Nix/Penix.
Schoen just has to figure out how to finesse this.
And sorry. Mr. MCCain was a senator not a Governor. I was never great in US Politics
And sorry. Mr. MCCain was a senator not a Governor. I was never great in US Politics
we all saw that. i dont think this is anything new.
schoen said hed be doing 7 on 7 during otas...
so if he can do that theyll know where he is pretty fast in the offseason.
Stranger things have happened. Levis was a lock to go 1st round. Drew Lock was supposed to go 1st round. Geno Smith was supposed to go 1st round. It is extremely rare for 5 QBs to go in round one much less 6! I want a QB bad in this draft, but I can't take Nix or Penix over Nabers/MHj. I just can't do it.
We can offer the 1st, 2nd, and next year's first.
There comes a point when the cost is too much.
We're talking about unknown commodities, and specifically the 4th QB in the draft.
I still don't get the focus of "4th QB in the draft". There's no guarantee of the first or even second QB taken being the best of the bunch. Recent examples would be Allen and Jackson being better than Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield. Purdy being better than his whole class (though I don't know how much that says there). Mahomes over Trubisky, and can keep going back to find other examples (Wilson over RGIII)...
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Vikings have two first rounders and another next year.
We can offer the 1st, 2nd, and next year's first.
There comes a point when the cost is too much.
We're talking about unknown commodities, and specifically the 4th QB in the draft.
I still don't get the focus of "4th QB in the draft". There's no guarantee of the first or even second QB taken being the best of the bunch. Recent examples would be Allen and Jackson being better than Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield. Purdy being better than his whole class (though I don't know how much that says there). Mahomes over Trubisky, and can keep going back to find other examples (Wilson over RGIII)...
I think we are all hoping this is the 2020 draft where the top 5 QBs taken were Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love, and Hurts.
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selecting Nix or Penix at 47, or even trying trade back into the middle of round 1 for either of them as we no longer have the additional 2nd.
Stranger things have happened. Levis was a lock to go 1st round. Drew Lock was supposed to go 1st round. Geno Smith was supposed to go 1st round. It is extremely rare for 5 QBs to go in round one much less 6! I want a QB bad in this draft, but I can't take Nix or Penix over Nabers/MHj. I just can't do it.
Yes I would not like that myself. I'd bet the farm on at least 5 qbs going in rd1, very possibly 6 to tie the record this year.
And they also seem to support taking like 7/8/9th etc later in the draft
And they also seem to support taking like 7/8/9th etc later in the draft
No I don't have an issue taking the 4th QB and I don't think most do either. Most don't want the 5th QB over the 2nd or 1st WR.
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They could probably outbid Minnesota for McCarthy (if it really came down to it). They could simply draft Nix or Penix at 6. Or they could trade down and still try to draft them.
They could even wait for Rattler in the 2nd. But please don't tell me that they're "shut out" from the QBs. There are six - potentially 7 QBs in this draft that that have starter abilities. All three of the tier 2 QBs are within reach. The Giants have both a talent and health deficit at the position. Do something. I really hope they don't sit back passively and say they didn't have "conviction" in these guys ala Gettleman in 2018. They don't have the luxury of conviction. Find a guy you like best and coach him up.
An injured, potentially cooked Jones, and two backups in Lock and DeVito who have not shown starter quality tape, is a QB group that is the equivalent of tanking. If the Giants finish below .500 with subpar QB play, and ANY of the tier 2 roookies look good, how do you even justify bringing back Schoen? He will have fucked up the most important position on the team two offseasons in a row, and you're gonna give the privilege of picking his QB in 2025?
Correct.
As of 3/21 there are 3 buckets of options that appear to be in play.
Trade up for Maye or McCarthy.
Select McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6.
Trade back for Nix/Penix.
Schoen just has to figure out how to finesse this.
We also have no idea if the qb the Vikings and Giants are looking to trade up for us Maye or JJM. So Maye could be there at 6 if the Vikings trade up for JJM. Lots of possibilities, best bet for Schoen with his career on the line is trading up to 3 and taking the guy he wants to bet his future on imo.
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In comment 16441847 Lambuth_Special said:
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They could probably outbid Minnesota for McCarthy (if it really came down to it). They could simply draft Nix or Penix at 6. Or they could trade down and still try to draft them.
They could even wait for Rattler in the 2nd. But please don't tell me that they're "shut out" from the QBs. There are six - potentially 7 QBs in this draft that that have starter abilities. All three of the tier 2 QBs are within reach. The Giants have both a talent and health deficit at the position. Do something. I really hope they don't sit back passively and say they didn't have "conviction" in these guys ala Gettleman in 2018. They don't have the luxury of conviction. Find a guy you like best and coach him up.
An injured, potentially cooked Jones, and two backups in Lock and DeVito who have not shown starter quality tape, is a QB group that is the equivalent of tanking. If the Giants finish below .500 with subpar QB play, and ANY of the tier 2 roookies look good, how do you even justify bringing back Schoen? He will have fucked up the most important position on the team two offseasons in a row, and you're gonna give the privilege of picking his QB in 2025?
Correct.
As of 3/21 there are 3 buckets of options that appear to be in play.
Trade up for Maye or McCarthy.
Select McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6.
Trade back for Nix/Penix.
Schoen just has to figure out how to finesse this.
We also have no idea if the qb the Vikings and Giants are looking to trade up for us Maye or JJM. So Maye could be there at 6 if the Vikings trade up for JJM. Lots of possibilities, best bet for Schoen with his career on the line is trading up to 3 and taking the guy he wants to bet his future on imo.
Our best bet is Vikings move up to pick 3. That would be ideal because then we are still in the same spot.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
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In comment 16441854 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16441847 Lambuth_Special said:
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They could probably outbid Minnesota for McCarthy (if it really came down to it). They could simply draft Nix or Penix at 6. Or they could trade down and still try to draft them.
They could even wait for Rattler in the 2nd. But please don't tell me that they're "shut out" from the QBs. There are six - potentially 7 QBs in this draft that that have starter abilities. All three of the tier 2 QBs are within reach. The Giants have both a talent and health deficit at the position. Do something. I really hope they don't sit back passively and say they didn't have "conviction" in these guys ala Gettleman in 2018. They don't have the luxury of conviction. Find a guy you like best and coach him up.
An injured, potentially cooked Jones, and two backups in Lock and DeVito who have not shown starter quality tape, is a QB group that is the equivalent of tanking. If the Giants finish below .500 with subpar QB play, and ANY of the tier 2 roookies look good, how do you even justify bringing back Schoen? He will have fucked up the most important position on the team two offseasons in a row, and you're gonna give the privilege of picking his QB in 2025?
Correct.
As of 3/21 there are 3 buckets of options that appear to be in play.
Trade up for Maye or McCarthy.
Select McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6.
Trade back for Nix/Penix.
Schoen just has to figure out how to finesse this.
We also have no idea if the qb the Vikings and Giants are looking to trade up for us Maye or JJM. So Maye could be there at 6 if the Vikings trade up for JJM. Lots of possibilities, best bet for Schoen with his career on the line is trading up to 3 and taking the guy he wants to bet his future on imo.
Our best bet is Vikings move up to pick 3. That would be ideal because then we are still in the same spot.
That depends on how Schoen views these guys. If the Vikings trade up for the guy Schoen really wants whether it's Maye or JJM and that player ends up amazing while we take the leftovers and he ends up average or worse, then that isn't ideal.
No, it's the Giants fans who were tortured by his play.
The Senator (not Governor) McCain reference is helpful for understanding the extent of the injury but that's about where the comparison ends.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
And sorry. Mr. MCCain was a senator not a Governor. I was never great in US Politics
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The daily 'we are screwed because we can't trade up to #4 or #5' or 'oh noes, the Vikings' thread of the day.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
Yeah I'd rather toss them Slayton and 2025 2nd or 2025 2nd and 2026 2nd
Penix cannot be the guy coming off the issues we have had and with am offense that requires their QB to have mobility.
That is just bullshit..
JJM is a superior prospect to Penix and it isn't even close!
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In comment 16441895 RCPhoenix said:
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The daily 'we are screwed because we can't trade up to #4 or #5' or 'oh noes, the Vikings' thread of the day.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
Yeah I'd rather toss them Slayton and 2025 2nd or 2025 2nd and 2026 2nd
I can do that
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In comment 16441901 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16441895 RCPhoenix said:
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The daily 'we are screwed because we can't trade up to #4 or #5' or 'oh noes, the Vikings' thread of the day.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
Yeah I'd rather toss them Slayton and 2025 2nd or 2025 2nd and 2026 2nd
I can do that
If they want Odunze, Nabers, Alt, or Nix I think they would do it.
Penix cannot be the guy coming off the issues we have had and with am offense that requires their QB to have mobility.
That is just bullshit..
JJM is a superior prospect to Penix and it isn't even close!
Penix at 6 is a no go. Yes he passed his Combine medicals, HOWEVER, he's at a far greater risk to re-injury the same right knee that he had torn his ACL TWICE already.
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The daily 'we are screwed because we can't trade up to #4 or #5' or 'oh noes, the Vikings' thread of the day.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
The QB that goes 3rd does not mean he is the third best QB. You won't know the answer to that for at least two years.
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The daily 'we are screwed because we can't trade up to #4 or #5' or 'oh noes, the Vikings' thread of the day.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
Depends on how the Giants have them rated.
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In comment 16441895 RCPhoenix said:
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The daily 'we are screwed because we can't trade up to #4 or #5' or 'oh noes, the Vikings' thread of the day.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
Depends on how the Giants have them rated.
I can already tell you... no matter who they pick that is the guy they wanted.
On the flip side, didn't the Giants allow Josh Ezeudu play with a neck injury in 2022 that got worse and landed him on IR?
Didn’t Peyton play with a neck injury until he eventually have to get it fused?
Penix cannot be the guy coming off the issues we have had and with am offense that requires their QB to have mobility.
That is just bullshit..
JJM is a superior prospect to Penix and it isn't even close!
Define superior.
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Is Malik Willis all over again. Forget that. He isn't being picked at 6 by anyone, that is lunacy.
Penix cannot be the guy coming off the issues we have had and with am offense that requires their QB to have mobility.
That is just bullshit..
JJM is a superior prospect to Penix and it isn't even close!
Define superior.
Simple- Penix is a medicL risk, athetically inferior, one trick pony, lacks mobility and no matter what in today's NFL that is death stroke, lacks sophistication in game play- Tues to one trick pony and when faced with too tier talent struggled with Even basic check down work
..
Superior.
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has a good point.
On the flip side, didn't the Giants allow Josh Ezeudu play with a neck injury in 2022 that got worse and landed him on IR?
Didn’t Peyton play with a neck injury until he eventually have to get it fused?
I am missing the point on both posts. Post injury, Peyton had a noodle arm and got by with his smarts. Re Ezeudu, are you suggesting that how they treated Ez and DJ is an indictment of the medical staff?
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Vikings have two first rounders and another next year.
We can offer the 1st, 2nd, and next year's first.
There comes a point when the cost is too much.
We're talking about unknown commodities, and specifically the 4th QB in the draft.
Then there's the asshat tidbit that the Patriots would much prefer to trade down to 6 vs. 11. So, I don't think it's as simple as getting more draft capital if the Patriots want Odunze, Nabers, Alt, Nix or maybe Maye/JJM then 6 is where they would want to be.
Correct
Oh but he'll be fine in the pros where they are bigger, stronger and faster though
Simple- Penix is a medicL risk, athetically inferior, one trick pony, lacks mobility and no matter what in today's NFL that is death stroke, lacks sophistication in game play- Tues to one trick pony and when faced with too tier talent struggled with Even basic check down work
..
Superior.
I'll give you that McCarthy's medical dossier is cleaner. And he is more athletic/mobile.
I don't know where or how you are seeing this "sophistication" difference. Or what that even means.
IMV, Penix has more arm talent than McCarthy. That has been showcased in the variety of throws that show up on tape.
Penix struggled against Michigan's D. Which QB didn't last year? They were the best D in the sport. So, no shame in Penix struggling, too. It happens. One game poor game shouldn't erase a pretty good body of work.
To me, all that doesn't add up to "superior".
I do understand the one-trick pony POV.
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Simple- Penix is a medicL risk, athetically inferior, one trick pony, lacks mobility and no matter what in today's NFL that is death stroke, lacks sophistication in game play- Tues to one trick pony and when faced with too tier talent struggled with Even basic check down work
..
Superior.
I'll give you that McCarthy's medical dossier is cleaner. And he is more athletic/mobile.
I don't know where or how you are seeing this "sophistication" difference. Or what that even means.
IMV, Penix has more arm talent than McCarthy. That has been showcased in the variety of throws that show up on tape.
Penix struggled against Michigan's D. Which QB didn't last year? They were the best D in the sport. So, no shame in Penix struggling, too. It happens. One game poor game shouldn't erase a pretty good body of work.
To me, all that doesn't add up to "superior".
I do understand the one-trick pony POV.
Age, athleticism, build are better to name a few tangibles.
After having a QB who has been injured almost every year,
I would not take the risk on a player who has lost three seasons due to injury.
He may be healthy now, but he has shown that he is an injury risk.
In addition, Penix is not a great prospect. He is older, a one-year wonder, he does not fair well when under pressure, and he does not extend plays.
He has a strong arm but that does not offset his liabilities.
We need a new QB, this draft has at least 6 that are worthy of 1st or early 2nd round consideration. Next year there may be 2. If there is a clear cut number 1 QB that is worthy of the top pick, the Giants will not be picking at 1. They will need to move up potentially more thank they do this year.
Get your QB now and start the new clock.
Yes, I think for AZ or NE we are clearly the better option, LAC are a wildcard Harbaugh typically prefers to go blue chip vs extra picks but they seem to be doing a little rebuild so it's hard to say. Either way, I feel like we are in a prime position. If Patriots are going to trade I say we pony up and trade with them to ensure Schdabka get their guy, if NE doesn't trade and they still love the 4th QB then I say we do everything possible to get that guy before the Vikings do. I don't see the option of sitting at 6 and waiting, unless they have the 3rd and 4th qb basically equally rated which I highly doubt.
Pratt reminds me of Jones.
After having a QB who has been injured almost every year,
I would not take the risk on a player who has lost three seasons due to injury.
He may be healthy now, but he has shown that he is an injury risk.
In addition, Penix is not a great prospect. He is older, a one-year wonder, he does not fair well when under pressure, and he does not extend plays.
He has a strong arm but that does not offset his liabilities.
This is the other thing, where was all that arm talent when Washington needed it? He had one of the very best wide receivers, actually, one of the very best players, in the country to throw to who is a game-breaking threat, and is mystical arm talent couldn't really gash the Michigan defense that much at all. Much at all. Instead he just got hurt again and could barely finish the game
This is not like some kid who got injured during his red shirt freshman year and is paying for it two or three years later. This guy should be playing in a bubble.
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I think that only teams that have a legit QB should take flyers on developmental QBs, but if that is all NYG are left with, isn’t Pratt one of the better targets? Penix injury history doesn’t seem like something this team can afford to gamble on.
Pratt reminds me of Jones.
The big 4 and Nix are going top 12 imo. CHI, Was. NE, NYG, Den, Min...5/6 min going to 5 of those 6 teams imo. I wouldn't be surprised if Pennix goes rd1 too, in fact I think he will. We can't wait for developmental prospects. Schoen and Dabs futures are on the line, there's no leaving this up to chance imo
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In comment 16441991 MojoEd said:
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I think that only teams that have a legit QB should take flyers on developmental QBs, but if that is all NYG are left with, isn’t Pratt one of the better targets? Penix injury history doesn’t seem like something this team can afford to gamble on.
Pratt reminds me of Jones.
The big 4 and Nix are going top 12 imo. CHI, Was. NE, NYG, Den, Min...5/6 min going to 5 of those 6 teams imo. I wouldn't be surprised if Pennix goes rd1 too, in fact I think he will. We can't wait for developmental prospects. Schoen and Dabs futures are on the line, there's no leaving this up to chance imo
Might be stuck with taking Rattler or Pratt, letting them compete with Lock until the year we are in a good spot to draft our hero.
This is hearsay but I am told that his arm injury was an impingement that it has resolved itself. Jones had limited range of motion due to the neck injury. He tried to play threw it.
The knee is responding to treatment. If anything Jones had to be restrained because he was pushing himself too hard. There was no timetable discussed, but Jones is preparing for the season.
Y'know, a lot of BBIers talk as all "neck injuries" are the same, as if a "neck injury" is the same as an injury to the spinal cord. I have pinched nerves around my cervical spine that affect my shoulders, arms and hands. It's annoying but not a major threat to my quality of life, and no doctor has ever suggested I'm in any danger of paralysis. However, it does sometimes affect the sensation in my hands and fingers, which would certainly limit any elite athlete.
Yeah, yeah, I'm not a football player, I'm not taking hits in a game, but still, not all "neck injuries" are the same.
David Wilson and others mentioned were in danger of damage to their spinal cord, which could leave them quadriplegic. If DJ had that he'd be off the roster by now. DJ could have pinched nerves — nerve impingement — while the spinal cord is undamaged and not really threatened.
The comparison to John McCain seems peculiar to me. If you look up how John McCain's shoulders were hurt, it bears little resemblance to anything DJ has experienced. I could be wrong, but I don't think McCain's limited range of motion in his shoulders were from nerve damage alone. There was a lot more going on. But, again, I could be wrong.
If you are a doctor are you really clearing a guy with 2 neck injuries to play. People at all levels get told to stop playing with neck injuries. He has had 2
I get he wants to play and is tough guy but he may need to be reigned in from himself
I hate seeing anybody on the team I root for being hurt to the point of career jeopardized
If you are a doctor are you really clearing a guy with 2 neck injuries to play. People at all levels get told to stop playing with neck injuries. He has had 2
I get he wants to play and is tough guy but he may need to be reigned in from himself
I hate seeing anybody on the team I root for being hurt to the point of career jeopardized
FWIW, when I was playing baseball I did something in my neck that I could not straighten my head up = cocked off to one side. For two or three days I could barely move it. Woke up one morning and it was gone - full range of motion, no pain at all...
So yeah, it is possible that his neck injury(especially if it was muscular) could go away in a couple days, especially with a guy taking serious treatment. These guys play with pain. He is a "tough" guy. No doctor would let him play with serious damage and with a chance to worsen the damage.
How did LT play with a torn pec or a broken ankle? (well ok coke)
If you are a doctor are you really clearing a guy with 2 neck injuries to play. People at all levels get told to stop playing with neck injuries. He has had 2
I get he wants to play and is tough guy but he may need to be reigned in from himself
I hate seeing anybody on the team I root for being hurt to the point of career jeopardized
Depends on imaging and symptoms
Thanks Go Deep. This is what makes sense and I thought and posted earlier in the thread. (1) This is the reason he could or wouldn't throw downfield and (2) They noticed the difference when he returned from the neck injury. I wondered why at times he wouldn't throw downfield and give his receivers a chance to make a play. Now we know.
I don't get this. Jones only played one quarter of one game after his return from the 2023 neck injury and the plays that drew the most criticism were his overthrows of Slayton and Hyatt on deep patterns.
As far as the doubts about passing a physical: passing a physical when? Now? July? September?
If there were a concern that he won't pass a physical, period, because of his physical condition, the headline concern should be the Giants being on the hook for his $23M injury guarantee. And if the concern is only that he couldn't pass a physical now, but presumably will later on, why is that, in particular, the focus of concern?
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In comment 16441997 Rjanyg said:
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In comment 16441991 MojoEd said:
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I think that only teams that have a legit QB should take flyers on developmental QBs, but if that is all NYG are left with, isn’t Pratt one of the better targets? Penix injury history doesn’t seem like something this team can afford to gamble on.
Pratt reminds me of Jones.
The big 4 and Nix are going top 12 imo. CHI, Was. NE, NYG, Den, Min...5/6 min going to 5 of those 6 teams imo. I wouldn't be surprised if Pennix goes rd1 too, in fact I think he will. We can't wait for developmental prospects. Schoen and Dabs futures are on the line, there's no leaving this up to chance imo
Might be stuck with taking Rattler or Pratt, letting them compete with Lock until the year we are in a good spot to draft our hero.
I firmly believe Schdabka feel conviction about one of these guys and they are going to trade up for him, likely up to 3. It'll be a lot of draft capital, but if they hit a home run no one will care. Swing for the fences, boys.
I firmly believe Schdabka feel conviction about one of these guys and they are going to trade up for him, likely up to 3. It'll be a lot of draft capital, but if they hit a home run no one will care. Swing for the fences, boys.
I said this in the Daniels thread, but I find it super suspicious that Maye is never mentioned when it comes to QBs for the Giants. Couple that with the current rumors that they have an offer to NE and could be on the verge to trade up to 3 I think a lot of this is smoke to keep Maye at 3 so MIN doesn’t try and trade up.
I don’t think they will pass on a QB this year and the only way to make that happen is a trade up.
I hope the guy is ok, but I'm also thinking the Giants want an injury excuse to take some of the egg off their faces (it doesn't).
100% to the taking egg off their face comment.
They are waxing on this thick and it raises eyebrows. “The only reason is injury”. The guy fucking sucked. You can be cordial and professional while being honest too. How about “we have extremely high expectations whoever man’s the position and they were not being met, coupled with the injury risk, we decided it’s best for the organization to move o from Daniel. We wish him all the best.”. I would actually have way more respect for that response.
When you release someone and don’t always have to worry about hurting his damn feelings. It’s a big boy business, grow a set Giants.
They are waxing on this thick and it raises eyebrows. “The only reason is injury”.
"They" haven't said a thing.
I must admit that I do not come tabula rasa and I cannot be objective in my analysis.
Having played football at Tulane I have maintained my relationships with the football program.
What I can tell you about Pratt that you won't see in the statistics is the following.
Pratt is a winner. He has willed an undermanned Tulane team to win. He took a team that was 2-10 and turned around 12-2 and 11-3.
He made ridiculous plays every week. He ran when he had to and passed when necessary. Pratt was a winner. The team loves him and would go through a wall for him. Pratt ingratiated himself by blocking and doing the dirty work.
I don't know if he has the prerequisite skills to become a starter in the NFL, but he is a player you would want on any team.
The Giants #1 QB has been all 4. We are all in to trade with NE and then the next day we are trading down.
Drew Lock was told he’s competing as a starter says his former GM and Lock says to everyone he’s the clear back up.
And most of the site treats all the new info as if it’s 100% correct.
I do think GoDeep is a credible source and I love reading all the info. I just find the whole situation entertaining with so many claiming absolutes.
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it and hopefully you will have more to share. When the team sucks this is the best time of year.
On a personal note I do hope that DJ is OK and fully recovers and gets one more shot to be our starter. I don’t think the Giants are in a good position to trade up for a QB this year despite what others think. The cost to trade up is too rich and I think these QBs are over rated. With so many holes, low cap space and no offensive weapons we have a chance to get a great WR. At the very worst Lock can be the gap QB to help us get the #1 QB next year.
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Simple- Penix is a medicL risk, athetically inferior, one trick pony, lacks mobility and no matter what in today's NFL that is death stroke, lacks sophistication in game play- Tues to one trick pony and when faced with too tier talent struggled with Even basic check down work
..
Superior.
I'll give you that McCarthy's medical dossier is cleaner. And he is more athletic/mobile.
I don't know where or how you are seeing this "sophistication" difference. Or what that even means.
IMV, Penix has more arm talent than McCarthy. That has been showcased in the variety of throws that show up on tape.
Penix struggled against Michigan's D. Which QB didn't last year? They were the best D in the sport. So, no shame in Penix struggling, too. It happens. One game poor game shouldn't erase a pretty good body of work.
To me, all that doesn't add up to "superior".
I do understand the one-trick pony POV.
I watched that entire championship game. Pennix did not struggle. His receivers did. There were so many drops that would have been big plays, including Odunze losing the ball in the air when he was wide open.
That's the kind of crap that will get you banned.
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I firmly believe Schdabka feel conviction about one of these guys and they are going to trade up for him, likely up to 3. It'll be a lot of draft capital, but if they hit a home run no one will care. Swing for the fences, boys.
I said this in the Daniels thread, but I find it super suspicious that Maye is never mentioned when it comes to QBs for the Giants. Couple that with the current rumors that they have an offer to NE and could be on the verge to trade up to 3 I think a lot of this is smoke to keep Maye at 3 so MIN doesn’t try and trade up.
I don’t think they will pass on a QB this year and the only way to make that happen is a trade up.
They've been linked to Maye:
I agree the time to strike is this year whether it be for Maye or McCarthy, I don't see any chance JD slips to the Patriots and if he miraculously did then they wouldn't trade down.
Link - ( New Window )
I watched that entire championship game. Pennix did not struggle. His receivers did. There were so many drops that would have been big plays, including Odunze losing the ball in the air when he was wide open.
Of course, Penix struggled. But so did the WRs, OL, RBs, coaching etc.
Again, Michigan was a superior team on D. And completely stymied Washington. I don't think Washington broke 50 yards rushing.
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In comment 16442083 BleedBlue46 said:
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I firmly believe Schdabka feel conviction about one of these guys and they are going to trade up for him, likely up to 3. It'll be a lot of draft capital, but if they hit a home run no one will care. Swing for the fences, boys.
I said this in the Daniels thread, but I find it super suspicious that Maye is never mentioned when it comes to QBs for the Giants. Couple that with the current rumors that they have an offer to NE and could be on the verge to trade up to 3 I think a lot of this is smoke to keep Maye at 3 so MIN doesn’t try and trade up.
I don’t think they will pass on a QB this year and the only way to make that happen is a trade up.
They've been linked to Maye:
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Connor Hughes believes Maye would be the team’s preferred choice. “Maye, specifically, they’re high on,” he wrote on Wednesday.
I agree the time to strike is this year whether it be for Maye or McCarthy, I don't see any chance JD slips to the Patriots and if he miraculously did then they wouldn't trade down. Link - ( New Window )
I know they have. It’s just interesting to me that the steam for QB lately hasn’t really mentioned Maye (outside of beat writers). Seems like the national media is being fed more of the McCarthy narrative and that raises an eyebrow to me.
I must admit that I do not come tabula rasa and I cannot be objective in my analysis.
Having played football at Tulane I have maintained my relationships with the football program.
What I can tell you about Pratt that you won't see in the statistics is the following.
Pratt is a winner. He has willed an undermanned Tulane team to win. He took a team that was 2-10 and turned around 12-2 and 11-3.
He made ridiculous plays every week. He ran when he had to and passed when necessary. Pratt was a winner. The team loves him and would go through a wall for him. Pratt ingratiated himself by blocking and doing the dirty work.
I don't know if he has the prerequisite skills to become a starter in the NFL, but he is a player you would want on any team.
I like Pratt the most of all the later round guys, above Rattler.
That's the kind of crap that will get you banned.
You're right, I was impulsive with the post and didnt think about what I was saying.
I just see plenty of posts criticizing Jones not being able to stay healthy when this guy has been destroyed in college. Then, the same posters mock the Giants for Jones' lack of ability to stay healthy and then fompletely ignore it when advocating for Penix.
It gets frustrating to read posters having contradicting ground rules for what they want from their QB and then be able to parrot the same thing over and over every single day.
I apologize. I didnt mean to be insulting, ai just popped off at the "logic."
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In comment 16442116 auxelectric said:
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In comment 16442083 BleedBlue46 said:
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I firmly believe Schdabka feel conviction about one of these guys and they are going to trade up for him, likely up to 3. It'll be a lot of draft capital, but if they hit a home run no one will care. Swing for the fences, boys.
I said this in the Daniels thread, but I find it super suspicious that Maye is never mentioned when it comes to QBs for the Giants. Couple that with the current rumors that they have an offer to NE and could be on the verge to trade up to 3 I think a lot of this is smoke to keep Maye at 3 so MIN doesn’t try and trade up.
I don’t think they will pass on a QB this year and the only way to make that happen is a trade up.
They've been linked to Maye:
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Connor Hughes believes Maye would be the team’s preferred choice. “Maye, specifically, they’re high on,” he wrote on Wednesday.
I agree the time to strike is this year whether it be for Maye or McCarthy, I don't see any chance JD slips to the Patriots and if he miraculously did then they wouldn't trade down. Link - ( New Window )
I know they have. It’s just interesting to me that the steam for QB lately hasn’t really mentioned Maye (outside of beat writers). Seems like the national media is being fed more of the McCarthy narrative and that raises an eyebrow to me.
Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but Connor Hughes said Maye was our guy 2 weeks ago. Seems like Schoen is doing a good job. It was reported Schoen was very mad after Connor Hughes made the report about us being high on JJM, that is interesting too.
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The daily 'we are screwed because we can't trade up to #4 or #5' or 'oh noes, the Vikings' thread of the day.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
What if QB3 this year is QB1 in the next draft? I really don't think people think this through bc i never get an answer on what the alternate strategy is. It's like I don't really want to eat there, well where are at gonna eat?
We've taken multiple mid round QBs over the last 10-15 years and not one has looked promising from day 1. Spend all the picks on defense if we're just going to roll with Drew Lock going forward