There are a lot of things I want to post but I’m obligated to wait til the week of the draft. One thing that is big is there are reportedly a handful of people in the organization that doubt jones will be able to pass a physical. Apparently he hasn’t recovered as expected from the ACL and they here has been a noticeable reduction of motion in his throwing arm.
Giants were willing to run it back with Jones but fear that his injuries in ‘23 have made him too much of a liability going forward as much as they like the man. They cannot, in good faith, rely on him going into the ‘24 season. Drew lock was signed to be the potential starter in the initial weeks when Jones’s recovery seemed to suffer a setback (Thus the explanation that Jones is still the presumptive starter). However further reports from medical doctors are leading the Giants to full pivot off Jones. It’s no longer about whether he is good enough, it’s simply come down to “will he hold up” and the Giants have been told that one more injury to the kneck will lead to retirement from Jones.
Finally. It was explained to me like this.
“Remember John McCain?”
Me: “The Governor?”
“yes. Remember he couldn’t lift his arms above his head?”
Me: “Kinda”
“Daniel Jones is one hit away”
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the Giants are in a precarious spot. QBs will go 1-2-3 with a possible trade up at 4 or 5.
Punt on QB until next year may be the only answer
If Schoen & Daboll don't do it this year they may never get the chance.
If Penix didn't have the injury history where would he be on the board?
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the Giants are in a precarious spot. QBs will go 1-2-3 with a possible trade up at 4 or 5.
Punt on QB until next year may be the only answer
Yes, we may be in this position.
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because your QB has durability concerns would be very....Giants
If Penix didn't have the injury history where would he be on the board?
The problem is going to be the run on QBs. If NYG takes Odunze or Nabers at 6, 5 of the top QBs will almost definitely be gone by 12. Whoever is last man standing (most likely Nix or Penix) is not going to last from 13 all the way to 47.
I don't think QB should ever be a position you punt.
I don't think QB should ever be a position you punt.
They may not have the chance, that’s the point.
The approach to the QB position needs to be completely rethought.
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In comment 16441312 Eric from BBI said:
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the Giants are in a precarious spot. QBs will go 1-2-3 with a possible trade up at 4 or 5.
Punt on QB until next year may be the only answer
Yes, we may be in this position.
This is what I have been saying... I just don't think we can take QB5 at pick 6... Unless one of the top 4 is Bo Nix and he has been rising up the chart. Maybe someone likes him more than JJM or Drake.
The approach to the QB position needs to be completely rethought.
I think it means punting on a first round QB... Probably the first two actually. I would bet they grab at least one QB somewhere, but do you want them taking the 5th best QB at pick 6?
It changes nothing with respect to the contract.
Schneider told the truth and the Giants are covering their ass.
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I just can't believe all (or any of) this. It's just too good to be true. The football gods can't smile on us that much and let us get out from under his contract after just one year, and so easily. So forgive my skepticism. But until I actually see it come to pass, I'll assume the worst and expect DJ to be under center for us at some point this coming season.
It changes nothing with respect to the contract.
Actually if he can't pass a physical this year at all then we are on the hook for more money next year. So the happy he is so hurt he may not be able to play again comment might have Karma catching up to that one.
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If you don't take the QB when you have the chance, you may never get the chance to. He was part of the group that passed on QB in Oakland in 2004, they all got fired.
I don't think QB should ever be a position you punt.
They may not have the chance, that’s the point.
I feel confident we could trade for pick 3 if we wanted to based on asshat reports and various other reports. Trading up to 4 or 5, I have no idea. If Schdabka have conviction on a guy, they gotta just bite the bullet and trade up to 3 for him. Seems as though Schoen feels the same way and is working to make it happen imo.
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If you don't take the QB when you have the chance, you may never get the chance to. He was part of the group that passed on QB in Oakland in 2004, they all got fired.
I don't think QB should ever be a position you punt.
They may not have the chance, that’s the point.
I don't buy that. The Vikings are actively trading up, but the Giants at #6 don't have the chance? That's a cop out imo and shame on Schoen if that's the case.
Unless something got worst between the time of Wilson's interview and now, the Front Office HAD to know DJ's injury situation...and his injury history.
Jones simply can't stay healthy. That's not a crime, it's not Daniel's fault...but the Front Office had to try and convince Russell to sign. If that meant DJ had to sit, then the team had to make that move.
Yeah, the Wilson thing makes little sense with this context.
We can offer the 1st, 2nd, and next year's first.
There comes a point when the cost is too much.
We're talking about unknown commodities, and specifically the 4th QB in the draft.
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You ask me the Giants should be drafting TWO quarterbacks, not punting on the position.
The approach to the QB position needs to be completely rethought.
I think it means punting on a first round QB... Probably the first two actually. I would bet they grab at least one QB somewhere, but do you want them taking the 5th best QB at pick 6?
I don't think it's as simple as ranking them 1-6. I think they have different qualities, and which one you draft is going to help shape the team the Giants will want to build.
Watching college football last year I thought I saw 3 players that had specific + categories: Williams has exceptional "second play" escape ability, Daniels has exceptional athletic ability, and Penix is an exceptional thrower. I didn't see anything exceptional from Maye, McCarthy, or Nix. Doesn't mean they're not good, and I'd be happy with any of them.
If I were picking at 6 I'd be happy to take Penix and build a team around his throwing ability. Use lots of 12 personnel and play action to get Slayton and Hyatt downfield.
And regardless of which of the 6 QBs we'd theoretically draft, I'd draft another as early as the fourth round.
Those is what happens when you ignore the QB position, as the Giants have, for many years. Enough already. They've got to try.
contract if ownership doesn't see the team heading in a forward direction.
What is the forward direction? Who would bet the mortgage that it's daniel jones? Do you think Daboll and Schoen want to place their futures on that unknown?
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because your QB has durability concerns would be very....Giants
If Penix didn't have the injury history where would he be on the board?
LOL, that hypothetical is so stupid, given that he DOES have the history. One cannot ignore it - as much as you seemingly want to (on post after post)....
Who the fuck cares where he would be on anyone's board without an injury history? He HAS one. End of discussion.
We can offer the 1st, 2nd, and next year's first.
There comes a point when the cost is too much.
We're talking about unknown commodities, and specifically the 4th QB in the draft.
Then there's the asshat tidbit that the Patriots would much prefer to trade down to 6 vs. 11. So, I don't think it's as simple as getting more draft capital if the Patriots want Odunze, Nabers, Alt, Nix or maybe Maye/JJM then 6 is where they would want to be.
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In comment 16441810 Sean said:
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If you don't take the QB when you have the chance, you may never get the chance to. He was part of the group that passed on QB in Oakland in 2004, they all got fired.
I don't think QB should ever be a position you punt.
They may not have the chance, that’s the point.
I don't buy that. The Vikings are actively trading up, but the Giants at #6 don't have the chance? That's a cop out imo and shame on Schoen if that's the case.
Offensively they are in much better situation than us. So them way over paying when they have Aaron Jones, one of the best WRs in the game in JJ, Jordan Addison, Hockenson, and better OL isn't as big a deal for them. They can afford to give up a ton of picks because they don't need to surround their QB with quality starters. Not saying we don't have a chance to move up, but us moving up means we can't get a good WR this year, TE, more OL, etc. So it isn't that we can't move up, just we can't sell the farm as much as they can. We need some of the farm for a million holes.
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In comment 16441816 Go Terps said:
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You ask me the Giants should be drafting TWO quarterbacks, not punting on the position.
The approach to the QB position needs to be completely rethought.
I think it means punting on a first round QB... Probably the first two actually. I would bet they grab at least one QB somewhere, but do you want them taking the 5th best QB at pick 6?
I don't think it's as simple as ranking them 1-6. I think they have different qualities, and which one you draft is going to help shape the team the Giants will want to build.
Watching college football last year I thought I saw 3 players that had specific + categories: Williams has exceptional "second play" escape ability, Daniels has exceptional athletic ability, and Penix is an exceptional thrower. I didn't see anything exceptional from Maye, McCarthy, or Nix. Doesn't mean they're not good, and I'd be happy with any of them.
If I were picking at 6 I'd be happy to take Penix and build a team around his throwing ability. Use lots of 12 personnel and play action to get Slayton and Hyatt downfield.
And regardless of which of the 6 QBs we'd theoretically draft, I'd draft another as early as the fourth round.
Those is what happens when you ignore the QB position, as the Giants have, for many years. Enough already. They've got to try.
I hear you... If Penix wasn't left handed I would like him more. Even more than his age and injury history that is my issue with him. I have seen him a ton and he can throw it. However how can we protect a Lefty? You want Neal protecting his blindside? If you got him later I can see it, but I can't give up what amounts to a lot of draft capitol to take a chance on him. I would prefer Nix to him as he is literally good in all aspects of the game just not great in any.
They could even wait for Rattler in the 2nd. But please don't tell me that they're "shut out" from the QBs. There are six - potentially 7 QBs in this draft that that have starter abilities. All three of the tier 2 QBs are within reach. The Giants have both a talent and health deficit at the position. Do something. I really hope they don't sit back passively and say they didn't have "conviction" in these guys ala Gettleman in 2018. They don't have the luxury of conviction. Find a guy you like best and coach him up.
An injured, potentially cooked Jones, and two backups in Lock and DeVito who have not shown starter quality tape, is a QB group that is the equivalent of tanking. If the Giants finish below .500 with subpar QB play, and ANY of the tier 2 roookies look good, how do you even justify bringing back Schoen? He will have fucked up the most important position on the team two offseasons in a row, and you're gonna give the privilege of picking his QB in 2025?
They could even wait for Rattler in the 2nd. But please don't tell me that they're "shut out" from the QBs. There are six - potentially 7 QBs in this draft that that have starter abilities. All three of the tier 2 QBs are within reach. The Giants have both a talent and health deficit at the position. Do something. I really hope they don't sit back passively and say they didn't have "conviction" in these guys ala Gettleman in 2018. They don't have the luxury of conviction. Find a guy you like best and coach him up.
An injured, potentially cooked Jones, and two backups in Lock and DeVito who have not shown starter quality tape, is a QB group that is the equivalent of tanking. If the Giants finish below .500 with subpar QB play, and ANY of the tier 2 roookies look good, how do you even justify bringing back Schoen? He will have fucked up the most important position on the team two offseasons in a row, and you're gonna give the privilege of picking his QB in 2025?
Correct.
As of 3/21 there are 3 buckets of options that appear to be in play.
Trade up for Maye or McCarthy.
Select McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6.
Trade back for Nix/Penix.
Schoen just has to figure out how to finesse this.
And sorry. Mr. MCCain was a senator not a Governor. I was never great in US Politics
And sorry. Mr. MCCain was a senator not a Governor. I was never great in US Politics
we all saw that. i dont think this is anything new.
schoen said hed be doing 7 on 7 during otas...
so if he can do that theyll know where he is pretty fast in the offseason.
Stranger things have happened. Levis was a lock to go 1st round. Drew Lock was supposed to go 1st round. Geno Smith was supposed to go 1st round. It is extremely rare for 5 QBs to go in round one much less 6! I want a QB bad in this draft, but I can't take Nix or Penix over Nabers/MHj. I just can't do it.
We can offer the 1st, 2nd, and next year's first.
There comes a point when the cost is too much.
We're talking about unknown commodities, and specifically the 4th QB in the draft.
I still don't get the focus of "4th QB in the draft". There's no guarantee of the first or even second QB taken being the best of the bunch. Recent examples would be Allen and Jackson being better than Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield. Purdy being better than his whole class (though I don't know how much that says there). Mahomes over Trubisky, and can keep going back to find other examples (Wilson over RGIII)...
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Vikings have two first rounders and another next year.
We can offer the 1st, 2nd, and next year's first.
There comes a point when the cost is too much.
We're talking about unknown commodities, and specifically the 4th QB in the draft.
I still don't get the focus of "4th QB in the draft". There's no guarantee of the first or even second QB taken being the best of the bunch. Recent examples would be Allen and Jackson being better than Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield. Purdy being better than his whole class (though I don't know how much that says there). Mahomes over Trubisky, and can keep going back to find other examples (Wilson over RGIII)...
I think we are all hoping this is the 2020 draft where the top 5 QBs taken were Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love, and Hurts.
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selecting Nix or Penix at 47, or even trying trade back into the middle of round 1 for either of them as we no longer have the additional 2nd.
Stranger things have happened. Levis was a lock to go 1st round. Drew Lock was supposed to go 1st round. Geno Smith was supposed to go 1st round. It is extremely rare for 5 QBs to go in round one much less 6! I want a QB bad in this draft, but I can't take Nix or Penix over Nabers/MHj. I just can't do it.
Yes I would not like that myself. I'd bet the farm on at least 5 qbs going in rd1, very possibly 6 to tie the record this year.
And they also seem to support taking like 7/8/9th etc later in the draft
And they also seem to support taking like 7/8/9th etc later in the draft
No I don't have an issue taking the 4th QB and I don't think most do either. Most don't want the 5th QB over the 2nd or 1st WR.
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They could probably outbid Minnesota for McCarthy (if it really came down to it). They could simply draft Nix or Penix at 6. Or they could trade down and still try to draft them.
They could even wait for Rattler in the 2nd. But please don't tell me that they're "shut out" from the QBs. There are six - potentially 7 QBs in this draft that that have starter abilities. All three of the tier 2 QBs are within reach. The Giants have both a talent and health deficit at the position. Do something. I really hope they don't sit back passively and say they didn't have "conviction" in these guys ala Gettleman in 2018. They don't have the luxury of conviction. Find a guy you like best and coach him up.
An injured, potentially cooked Jones, and two backups in Lock and DeVito who have not shown starter quality tape, is a QB group that is the equivalent of tanking. If the Giants finish below .500 with subpar QB play, and ANY of the tier 2 roookies look good, how do you even justify bringing back Schoen? He will have fucked up the most important position on the team two offseasons in a row, and you're gonna give the privilege of picking his QB in 2025?
Correct.
As of 3/21 there are 3 buckets of options that appear to be in play.
Trade up for Maye or McCarthy.
Select McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6.
Trade back for Nix/Penix.
Schoen just has to figure out how to finesse this.
We also have no idea if the qb the Vikings and Giants are looking to trade up for us Maye or JJM. So Maye could be there at 6 if the Vikings trade up for JJM. Lots of possibilities, best bet for Schoen with his career on the line is trading up to 3 and taking the guy he wants to bet his future on imo.
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In comment 16441847 Lambuth_Special said:
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They could probably outbid Minnesota for McCarthy (if it really came down to it). They could simply draft Nix or Penix at 6. Or they could trade down and still try to draft them.
They could even wait for Rattler in the 2nd. But please don't tell me that they're "shut out" from the QBs. There are six - potentially 7 QBs in this draft that that have starter abilities. All three of the tier 2 QBs are within reach. The Giants have both a talent and health deficit at the position. Do something. I really hope they don't sit back passively and say they didn't have "conviction" in these guys ala Gettleman in 2018. They don't have the luxury of conviction. Find a guy you like best and coach him up.
An injured, potentially cooked Jones, and two backups in Lock and DeVito who have not shown starter quality tape, is a QB group that is the equivalent of tanking. If the Giants finish below .500 with subpar QB play, and ANY of the tier 2 roookies look good, how do you even justify bringing back Schoen? He will have fucked up the most important position on the team two offseasons in a row, and you're gonna give the privilege of picking his QB in 2025?
Correct.
As of 3/21 there are 3 buckets of options that appear to be in play.
Trade up for Maye or McCarthy.
Select McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6.
Trade back for Nix/Penix.
Schoen just has to figure out how to finesse this.
We also have no idea if the qb the Vikings and Giants are looking to trade up for us Maye or JJM. So Maye could be there at 6 if the Vikings trade up for JJM. Lots of possibilities, best bet for Schoen with his career on the line is trading up to 3 and taking the guy he wants to bet his future on imo.
Our best bet is Vikings move up to pick 3. That would be ideal because then we are still in the same spot.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
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In comment 16441854 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16441847 Lambuth_Special said:
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They could probably outbid Minnesota for McCarthy (if it really came down to it). They could simply draft Nix or Penix at 6. Or they could trade down and still try to draft them.
They could even wait for Rattler in the 2nd. But please don't tell me that they're "shut out" from the QBs. There are six - potentially 7 QBs in this draft that that have starter abilities. All three of the tier 2 QBs are within reach. The Giants have both a talent and health deficit at the position. Do something. I really hope they don't sit back passively and say they didn't have "conviction" in these guys ala Gettleman in 2018. They don't have the luxury of conviction. Find a guy you like best and coach him up.
An injured, potentially cooked Jones, and two backups in Lock and DeVito who have not shown starter quality tape, is a QB group that is the equivalent of tanking. If the Giants finish below .500 with subpar QB play, and ANY of the tier 2 roookies look good, how do you even justify bringing back Schoen? He will have fucked up the most important position on the team two offseasons in a row, and you're gonna give the privilege of picking his QB in 2025?
Correct.
As of 3/21 there are 3 buckets of options that appear to be in play.
Trade up for Maye or McCarthy.
Select McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6.
Trade back for Nix/Penix.
Schoen just has to figure out how to finesse this.
We also have no idea if the qb the Vikings and Giants are looking to trade up for us Maye or JJM. So Maye could be there at 6 if the Vikings trade up for JJM. Lots of possibilities, best bet for Schoen with his career on the line is trading up to 3 and taking the guy he wants to bet his future on imo.
Our best bet is Vikings move up to pick 3. That would be ideal because then we are still in the same spot.
That depends on how Schoen views these guys. If the Vikings trade up for the guy Schoen really wants whether it's Maye or JJM and that player ends up amazing while we take the leftovers and he ends up average or worse, then that isn't ideal.
No, it's the Giants fans who were tortured by his play.
The Senator (not Governor) McCain reference is helpful for understanding the extent of the injury but that's about where the comparison ends.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
And sorry. Mr. MCCain was a senator not a Governor. I was never great in US Politics
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The daily 'we are screwed because we can't trade up to #4 or #5' or 'oh noes, the Vikings' thread of the day.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
Yeah I'd rather toss them Slayton and 2025 2nd or 2025 2nd and 2026 2nd
Penix cannot be the guy coming off the issues we have had and with am offense that requires their QB to have mobility.
That is just bullshit..
JJM is a superior prospect to Penix and it isn't even close!
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In comment 16441895 RCPhoenix said:
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The daily 'we are screwed because we can't trade up to #4 or #5' or 'oh noes, the Vikings' thread of the day.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
Yeah I'd rather toss them Slayton and 2025 2nd or 2025 2nd and 2026 2nd
I can do that
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In comment 16441901 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16441895 RCPhoenix said:
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The daily 'we are screwed because we can't trade up to #4 or #5' or 'oh noes, the Vikings' thread of the day.
The Giants have the #6 pick, a second round pick, and their first round pick for next year. That's not nothing in a trade. If Harbaugh wants player X, the best guarantee of getting that player is swapping with the Giants, not the Vikings.
As to the OP - that's unfortunate for Jones but not surprising.
I can't give up 47 this year and my first next year to move up 3 spots to take the 3rd QB in the draft. That is me though.
Yeah I'd rather toss them Slayton and 2025 2nd or 2025 2nd and 2026 2nd
I can do that
If they want Odunze, Nabers, Alt, or Nix I think they would do it.