Matthew Coller talks about a report from NFL Insider Albert Breer that the Chicago Bears, Washington Commanders and New England Patriots have given the Vikings "polite no" answers to their inquiries about trading up. The Arizona Cardinals also are "open for business" according to NFL.com. Are the Vikings stuck with No. 4? Should they just roll with No. 11 and 23? What. Is. Going. On.
I thought you might enjoy listening to this guy talking about what Minnesota will do in the draft. Should they trade up to 4th or 5th to take McCarthy to jump the Giants or stay put at 11 and 23 and settle for Nix, Pennix, and even McCarthy. This guy goes through a zillion scenarios. He considers it a complete failure not to get a QB at all in round one.
Albert Breer says top 3 teams won't trade with Vikings -- WHAT NOW? - (
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This. Don’t panic draft/trade up for a QB.
Can't agree more. I would not move up. Stay put. If JJ falls on your lap at 6, great. If no QB top left, take MHJ or Odunze. If both gone, then trade down and go defense picking Terrion Arnold. Then Look for a QB in the late 1st or 2nd rd.
Is there anyone out there who thinks his story is anything more than click bait or an intentionally planted story for some reason?
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Jumping up to get a QB and having him be a lemon.
This. Don’t panic draft/trade up for a QB.
Yep.
I think that while AZ knows MHJ is probably the best WR, there are other WRs that are nearly as good that can be had a little farther back while getting more high draft picks.
Trade for Minn 11 and 23 in exchange for the AZ 4 and 71 round, then take Thomas at 11 and a ER or CB with 23.
Trade with Giants for 6 and 70.. and still get MHJ, Odunze or Nabers....
People should consider that Arizona is just planning out scenario B which is if Marvin Harrison is taken before them at 4. It’s unlikely but you never truly know. I suspect Arizona would want to swap to 6 should that be the case and thats what Ossenfort is aiming at with his comments. Im very skeptical that they will trade out of the 3 WRs and Alt position of this draft
And if Mahomes and Josh Allen had turned out to be lemons, then trading up for them would have been considered complete failures as well.
I wonder how many of their team's fans wanted to stay put and let the draft come to them?
An out of the box thought....what if a top 3 QB needy team trades its pick for an established QB (plus other compensation) from a team which wants to "reset"?
I'm with the poster who suggested that if the players the Giants are really interested in are gone by their pick, that they just trade back and accumulate several higher picks (plus an established player(s)?).
The Draft can't occur soon enough.
I guess if you never try then you can't be a complete failure.
Just a basic failure.
The counter point to that is Trey Lance.
You are basically describing a perfect scenario for every QB to talk into, how often do we see that? If you can’t find a QB that’s able to function when things arent going at their best, you don’t have a QB that will take you very far.
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Is to not have the ability to determine what makes a good nfl quarterback. Namely a good o line, offensive weapons, a scheme to match your quarterbacks skills, a defense that keeps you in games etc etc. I believe that any of the highly to secondarily rated qbs can thrive with the assets I noted
The counter point to that is Trey Lance.
You are basically describing a perfect scenario for every QB to talk into, how often do we see that? If you can’t find a QB that’s able to function when things arent going at their best, you don’t have a QB that will take you very far.
Lance has all the physical tools. What’s between his ears is his downfall imo
It’s too bad when teams work out qb’s they can’t simulate how they react to pressure, how they process under pressure. That’s why i laugh when I watch the combine and pro days with dudes slingin it all over the field
And you do what you have to do to get him.
Yup. I don't see either Pats or Cards wanting to drop all way back to 11 - and I think both would actually consider/prefer adding a high pick next year to their bounty - esp. Cards who have tons of picks this year, want to spread that out a bit over multiple years for roster stability/growth in 3-4 yrs.
Not sure if you were being serious here or not but that does actually make a lot of sense.
I can see the scenario right now where the Pats and Giants have a deal in place to swap contingent upon Daniels being off the board. If he is the Pats turn to the Giants offer, slide down and see what the QB landscape looks like 3 picks later and if they don't like what they see they grab a blue chipper elsewhere. Giants land Drake Maye.
Chicago, Washington, and New England apparently want to stay put and not trade with anyone, although there may still be a small chance that New England would trade with the Giants. But the problem with them doing so is that Minnesota might then trade with Arizona and San Diego, in which case New England would miss out on JJM, and have to overdraft Nix at #6 to get a QB. They also don't know when they will again be in a position to draft a QB without having to give up a lot of draft capital to move up to do so. And a new QB gives a fanbase hope even if the team is playing badly.
Minnesota would have to give up a ton to get Arizona or San Diego to miss out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, which is what would almost certainly happen if either team moved down to #11. Arizona and San Diego both have QBs that need new targets. San Diego just traded Allen and cut Williams. Arizona also already have a ton of draft capital.
I have said before I am fine taking any QB at #6, but don't want to move up for any of them, except maybe to #5, although even that now seems unnecessary. People are overrating this QB class. None of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or JJM make me think of Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. One will likely be a franchise QB. The rest will be journeymen.
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With another team.
Not sure if you were being serious here or not but that does actually make a lot of sense.
I can see the scenario right now where the Pats and Giants have a deal in place to swap contingent upon Daniels being off the board. If he is the Pats turn to the Giants offer, slide down and see what the QB landscape looks like 3 picks later and if they don't like what they see they grab a blue chipper elsewhere. Giants land Drake Maye.
Then you have the 2 trade candidates, Arizona and Chargers.
Both teams need WRs, there are 3 elite WRs in this draft. If you move back to 6, you're guaranteed 1. If you move back to 11, you won't get 1 of the 3.
My gut says the Vikings need to keep trading to get their #11 pick a tad higher, while keeping their other 1st round pick, in order to entice one of these teams to move back. I would not be shocked if they're still working to do this.
Trading Jefferson would also be an option as I'd jump on him if I was LAC/ARI, but if I'm the Vikings moving to a QB on a rookie contract, I think it would be foolish to move on from him.
I'm also not entirely convinced about the blue chip angle. There are tons of all-pros that were drafted outside of the top 10.
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Jumping up to get a QB and having him be a lemon.
Can't agree more. I would not move up. Stay put. If JJ falls on your lap at 6, great. If no QB top left, take MHJ or Odunze. If both gone, then trade down and go defense picking Terrion Arnold. Then Look for a QB in the late 1st or 2nd rd.
You know what is even worse? Not trading up for a QB they like then using a late first or early 2nd round pick on a QB that will never be a franchise QB and will probably turn out to be a bust. Then going into next years draft desperate for a QB in a weak class only to miss out again. Then having to wait until 2026 when they will probably have to trade a bounty to move up IF the team with the top picks are even willing to trade it.
It's an interesting scenario, because you have to flip the script a little.
The Giants traded 39 and change for the rights to sign Burns to a 5/141/76.5 agreement.
What would a historically great WR like Jefferson command in the open trade market?
For the Top 3 - it means missing a blue chip QB prospect.
For Cards and Chargers - MH Jr or another of the top WR prospects.
Chicago, Washington, and New England apparently want to stay put and not trade with anyone, although there may still be a small chance that New England would trade with the Giants. But the problem with them doing so is that Minnesota might then trade with Arizona and San Diego, in which case New England would miss out on JJM, and have to overdraft Nix at #6 to get a QB. They also don't know when they will again be in a position to draft a QB without having to give up a lot of draft capital to move up to do so. And a new QB gives a fanbase hope even if the team is playing badly.
Minnesota would have to give up a ton to get Arizona or San Diego to miss out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, which is what would almost certainly happen if either team moved down to #11. Arizona and San Diego both have QBs that need new targets. San Diego just traded Allen and cut Williams. Arizona also already have a ton of draft capital.
I have said before I am fine taking any QB at #6, but don't want to move up for any of them, except maybe to #5, although even that now seems unnecessary. People are overrating this QB class. None of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or JJM make me think of Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. One will likely be a franchise QB. The rest will be journeymen.
If no one in the top 5 wants to trade, we're perfect. That means McCarthy at 6.
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Jumping up to get a QB and having him be a lemon.
This. Don’t panic draft/trade up for a QB.
So stick with garbage and do nothing. Brilliant plan you two!
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sounds like nobody in the top five might want to trade down.
Chicago, Washington, and New England apparently want to stay put and not trade with anyone, although there may still be a small chance that New England would trade with the Giants. But the problem with them doing so is that Minnesota might then trade with Arizona and San Diego, in which case New England would miss out on JJM, and have to overdraft Nix at #6 to get a QB. They also don't know when they will again be in a position to draft a QB without having to give up a lot of draft capital to move up to do so. And a new QB gives a fanbase hope even if the team is playing badly.
Minnesota would have to give up a ton to get Arizona or San Diego to miss out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, which is what would almost certainly happen if either team moved down to #11. Arizona and San Diego both have QBs that need new targets. San Diego just traded Allen and cut Williams. Arizona also already have a ton of draft capital.
I have said before I am fine taking any QB at #6, but don't want to move up for any of them, except maybe to #5, although even that now seems unnecessary. People are overrating this QB class. None of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or JJM make me think of Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. One will likely be a franchise QB. The rest will be journeymen.
If no one in the top 5 wants to trade, we're perfect. That means McCarthy at 6.
Hell, it could even be Maye. If NE stays put and prefers JJM and ARZ and LAC don't trade then that's even better. NE is sending the house to Michigan today. There's some rumblings JJM might be their QB3 on the board behind Caleb and Jayden.
And you do what you have to do to get him.
Fair enough you believe this but we must recognize this as the exact argument given when they drafted Jones.
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sounds like nobody in the top five might want to trade down.
Chicago, Washington, and New England apparently want to stay put and not trade with anyone, although there may still be a small chance that New England would trade with the Giants. But the problem with them doing so is that Minnesota might then trade with Arizona and San Diego, in which case New England would miss out on JJM, and have to overdraft Nix at #6 to get a QB. They also don't know when they will again be in a position to draft a QB without having to give up a lot of draft capital to move up to do so. And a new QB gives a fanbase hope even if the team is playing badly.
Minnesota would have to give up a ton to get Arizona or San Diego to miss out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, which is what would almost certainly happen if either team moved down to #11. Arizona and San Diego both have QBs that need new targets. San Diego just traded Allen and cut Williams. Arizona also already have a ton of draft capital.
I have said before I am fine taking any QB at #6, but don't want to move up for any of them, except maybe to #5, although even that now seems unnecessary. People are overrating this QB class. None of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or JJM make me think of Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. One will likely be a franchise QB. The rest will be journeymen.
If no one in the top 5 wants to trade, we're perfect. That means McCarthy at 6.
What's the perfect part?
People should consider that Arizona is just planning out scenario B which is if Marvin Harrison is taken before them at 4. It’s unlikely but you never truly know. I suspect Arizona would want to swap to 6 should that be the case and thats what Ossenfort is aiming at with his comments. Im very skeptical that they will trade out of the 3 WRs and Alt position of this draft
Great post. Excellent points, especially the second one.
+1
It's an interesting scenario, because you have to flip the script a little.
The Giants traded 39 and change for the rights to sign Burns to a 5/141/76.5 agreement.
What would a historically great WR like Jefferson command in the open trade market?
ive suggested the jefferson move basically since min added the 2nd FRP.
he had always been somewhat vocal about cousins, how is he going to feel about extending with an unknown rookie QB over his main prime years?
the thing that's interesting to me is what is jefferson's trade value relative to 4th pick? going from #12 to #3 cost the 49ers 3 firsts. Is Jefferson (and his $150m+ contract) worth 3 firsts? I kind of don't think so. I think MIN still probably has to add the #11 or #23 pick.
Have to trust NY's QB evaluation. Otherwise we are screwed either way.
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I think Minnesota would have to include Jefferson to move up with Arizona.
It's an interesting scenario, because you have to flip the script a little.
The Giants traded 39 and change for the rights to sign Burns to a 5/141/76.5 agreement.
What would a historically great WR like Jefferson command in the open trade market?
ive suggested the jefferson move basically since min added the 2nd FRP.
he had always been somewhat vocal about cousins, how is he going to feel about extending with an unknown rookie QB over his main prime years?
the thing that's interesting to me is what is jefferson's trade value relative to 4th pick? going from #12 to #3 cost the 49ers 3 firsts. Is Jefferson (and his $150m+ contract) worth 3 firsts? I kind of don't think so. I think MIN still probably has to add the #11 or #23 pick.
I think it depends on where Arizona and the Chargers see themselves in terms of timeline to winning. If both see themselves 1-2 years away, then trading for Jefferson does not make a ton of sense because by the time you are ready to win he's two years older and is being paid like a top guy when he may not be. I have to think that with KC and SF in their respective division, Arizona and the Chargers probably look at least this year as a rebuild again to some degree.
Also, Jefferson missed 7 games last year. Maybe that was a fluke, but maybe that's also a sign of some wear and tear and raises the question if you are even getting peak Jefferson.
the last game of the year jefferson put up 192 yards on detroit catching 12/14 targets. pretty sure there arent any concerns about him.
arizona is in year 3 of what was effectively a 6/7 year franchise qb contract. kyler is 26 years old. if you are going to go for it with him, this is the time. they got a lot better when they added hopkins a few years ago, jefferson is in a whole other league at a whole other age.
the prospect of drafting MHJ is appealing, but im not sure it's more appealing than getting Jefferson who is already elite and only 2 years older, and another FRP that can solidify another spot on the roster.
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you get him.
And you do what you have to do to get him.
Fair enough you believe this but we must recognize this as the exact argument given when they drafted Jones.
I believe DG had conviction on Jones he just was a poor evaluator of talent.
the last game of the year jefferson put up 192 yards on detroit catching 12/14 targets. pretty sure there arent any concerns about him.
arizona is in year 3 of what was effectively a 6/7 year franchise qb contract. kyler is 26 years old. if you are going to go for it with him, this is the time. they got a lot better when they added hopkins a few years ago, jefferson is in a whole other league at a whole other age.
the prospect of drafting MHJ is appealing, but im not sure it's more appealing than getting Jefferson who is already elite and only 2 years older, and another FRP that can solidify another spot on the roster.
I don't think the Vikings have any interest in trading JJ, the idea is to pair him with a rookie qb contract imo.
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and dominated as usual in his last 4 games despite bad backup qbs.
the last game of the year jefferson put up 192 yards on detroit catching 12/14 targets. pretty sure there arent any concerns about him.
arizona is in year 3 of what was effectively a 6/7 year franchise qb contract. kyler is 26 years old. if you are going to go for it with him, this is the time. they got a lot better when they added hopkins a few years ago, jefferson is in a whole other league at a whole other age.
the prospect of drafting MHJ is appealing, but im not sure it's more appealing than getting Jefferson who is already elite and only 2 years older, and another FRP that can solidify another spot on the roster.
I don't think the Vikings have any interest in trading JJ, the idea is to pair him with a rookie qb contract imo.
what if he doesnt want to extend and tie his prime years to the uncertainty of a rookie qb?
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In comment 16442710 Eric on Li said:
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and dominated as usual in his last 4 games despite bad backup qbs.
the last game of the year jefferson put up 192 yards on detroit catching 12/14 targets. pretty sure there arent any concerns about him.
arizona is in year 3 of what was effectively a 6/7 year franchise qb contract. kyler is 26 years old. if you are going to go for it with him, this is the time. they got a lot better when they added hopkins a few years ago, jefferson is in a whole other league at a whole other age.
the prospect of drafting MHJ is appealing, but im not sure it's more appealing than getting Jefferson who is already elite and only 2 years older, and another FRP that can solidify another spot on the roster.
I don't think the Vikings have any interest in trading JJ, the idea is to pair him with a rookie qb contract imo.
what if he doesnt want to extend and tie his prime years to the uncertainty of a rookie qb?
He's got no choice and they have 2 more years with a 5th year option to negotiate. I see very little chance they trade him to move up, and I don't think it would be wise of LAC or AZ because they both don't have a win now window.
The most realistic spot for QB #4 is going to be pick 4-6. Would Arizona trade down knowing it can have Marvin Harrison? Will the Chargers? I can see the chargers even more than the Cardinals. Chargers have a lot of holes.
which is practically the same amount ridley just got which is 3rd most of all WRs and not far off Diggs 2nd most.
so Jefferson is in quite the position to put the screws to Minnesota, and whether he is or isnt enthused with the prospect of playing with a rookie QB, im sure his agent will leverage it as a means to getting the best possible deal from Minnesota.
if push comes to shove and Minnesota has to decide between:
a) keeping jefferson
b) trading up to get 1 of the 4 QBs
im not sure which they choose if they cant do both.
remember they have addison too, who had a great rookie year with his best run coming when jefferson was out.
But what if I say do whatever it takes... then they have to trade.
I think the opening bid for Jefferson in the abstract is 2 first round picks. What he's done in 60 career games can't be overstated. All things considered the only better receiver over 4 years in the NFL is Moss, and JJ has 500+ more yards in four fewer games.
If the cost to move from 11 to 4 is two first round picks (per the Lance example), I think Jefferson covers that cost.
If Arizona has shot their shot with Murray, paying the best WR in the NFL, who will be 25 in June and getting a chance at another blue chip player at 11 is a no brainer to me.