Where do you stand with Schoen and Daboll?

QB they take. If they whiff, they'll both be gone within 3 years.

in about 5 weeks

I have full faith. I choose to believe Jones contract does not totally fall upon him. I think the right guy is our GM. I like Daboll and hope he gets a QB.

He's got to clean up the crucial mistakes, and see the landscape for what it is. Too many voices in the building with a poor record of self-scouting. He's got to stand up and run the point, but not sure he's actually a strong enough football judge of talent, etc.

Davoli probably has some personality things to work on, and his 2023 team was pitifully prepared to begin the regular season. He quickly started making decisions with tunnel vision, and hope he figures out how to overcome it.

They're not perfect, but they're better than their predecessors.

but if they don't get a QB in this draft they will be goners .

Big year for both of them. My biggest concern is they panic draft a QB even if their top rated guys aren’t there.

WTF is this ‘Davoli’ thing? I have seen this from multiple posters. Is it an inside joke? Or a crack at Dabs’ weight?

.

In comment 16442780 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

WTF is this ‘Davoli’ thing? I have seen this from multiple posters. Is it an inside joke? Or a crack at Dabs’ weight?

I think a poster fell victim to a spellcheck fail. It's simply too funny to let it go.

kept in place for a longest period of time to build sustainability in this franchise. I think fans and media need to stop thinking someone needs to be be fired every 3 years.

Its that level of inconsistency that is the reason for the team to never have a core of success.

you are not fixing 10-12 years of ineptitude in 2 years.

These guys took over a team with a horrid cap situation
A terrible roster.
Little to no depth at multiple positions due to mutliple years of bad drafts.
A completely outdated team of scouts and analysts.
A poorly staffed front office.

Won a playoff game first year..
had a bad second year...

I keep saying the same thing.. if this year was last year and play year was THIS past season.. perspective would be COMPLETELY different.

Mistakes are going to be made.. No one gets it 100% perfect.. NO ONE.. The question is how quickly can you pivot from the mistakes made..

In comment 16442790 JonC said:

Quote:

In comment 16442780 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: WTF is this ‘Davoli’ thing? I have seen this from multiple posters. Is it an inside joke? Or a crack at Dabs’ weight? I think a poster fell victim to a spellcheck fail. It's simply too funny to let it go.

It was in a post that pretty clearly was a troll job. And the Poster referred him as Davoli multiple times. After the reactions to the post I knew it was going to stick in BBI lore...

Year 1…..far exceeds anyone’s thoughts…win playoff game too

Year 2- disappointing results, but we did have some key guys out plus we could have won 8 or 9 with gut wrenching losses to the Jets and Rams because of Kicker injuries and the Bills because of horrible clock management .

2024 off season has been great so far, beyond my expectations:

Firing all the bad coaches and hiring guys who appear to be more competent….finally addressing OL a much needed do over….nice not to have our entire season rest on one overrated player- Evan Neal.

Looking forward to the draft…won’t be disappointed if the right QB does not fall into our lap…will be very pleased with a stud #1 WR. I’m sure the franchise QB will rise up soon.

I’m still on board…hope I feel the same way in December.

Is he doesn’t play the starters in the preseason. To go from not playing at all in the pre season to jump into week 1 playing a full game, the team looks so lost and out of sync. I don’t care about joint practices and scrimmages.. nothing can replicate playing in a live game.

Coaches are too scared to play their starters because of injury. Well they get hurt anyway so that’s a load of crap. I know it’s a completely different era but Parcells had all his starters play a ton in the pre season.

I’m not saying out Sehorn back on kick returns… but the starters, especially the oline need to play a lot more in the preseason.

that Schoen is taking. I'm very concerned about QB right now, as we all should be. I also am not sure this regime understands o-line construction on the level it may require to fix it long-term.

As for Dab's, I think he's a good coach. What he did with DeVito and his many limitations this year was commendable and the year before with Jones. I think if he's given a QB with elite talent, he will be here a long time.

keeping that team competitive and winning games with the issues on OL and at QB not to mention having a DC trying to lead a mutiny. I am a little concerned about the amount of drama that came out after the season but the Kafka stuff was never really confirmed and he did come back with a promotion.

Schoen is aggressive and willing to move off mistakes, which are both good traits. Just need to nail those draft picks a little better.

They came in and righted a listing ship. Had some missteps due, IMO, to the pressure that resulted from their wildly unexpected season in '22. I think there was probably pressure from up top about maintaining the core, and it would've been nearly impossible to placate ownership and fanbase had they tore it all down after the divisional loss.

So they set about as if they were building a contender when in truth it was a scrappy but deeply flawed roster. Took a gamble on elite but unreliable talent, designed an offense around it, and it collapsed in catastrophic fashion 5 minutes into week 1. But they managed to find some semblance of a football team by late in the year and I'm willing to look at it like a mulligan.

So I believe. But having seen the bad the leash would be shorter.

One bit of evidence that Schoen IS capable of self scouting is how he's handling prep for the OL THIS year as opposed to last. He did a piss poor job last year, made too many assumptions. This year, he's attacking the position much more thoroughly and intelligently. Does it guarantee success? Of course not, but the chances the line will be MUCH better is there simply because of better preparation.

He gets credit for realizing he messed up, and course correcting for this upcoming year.

Schoen - has Big Bill's blessing + some experience w/him & Beane.
Man, I was at 100%, and he's made some really smart moves (not getting into what is said to JS from above, but I believe there was A LOT for JS to deal with, hence the contracts for faces of franchise)

I took JS down to about 90% confidence, but much has to do with the Offensive players that weren't kept last year (Crowder, etc.) that were probably more on Dabes

Seems to have plugged a ton of massive holes the last 2 years. I liked the move for Burns. Maybe the WanDale move was a round too high, but I'm not gonna kill him for it, since he traded down (twice if I recall). I was on board with Waller being our Kelce, but the injury bug showed up. Very young team that needed a few vets here and there. More bodies for OL, can't be mad at that. Seems to be doing much better in the spending for positional value department.

Lock was a decent gamble on a high pick for cheap. If they figure out QB this year, then I'll go back to 100% :)

Dabes - full confidence in him and his offense. A lot less confidence in personnel decisions. The whole Wink thing was SO weird. Hopefully that was a 1 off with head-butting the DC.

Very glad that Kafka is back. (Kafka will end up being HC for "continuity" if Dabes winds up out. But I don't think he will.

Hopefully they clean up their minor mistakes and can move forward without "the family" guiding decisions anymore. There's a nice core on the Defense. OL got a ton of love & I think just having a different OL coach is good for a few extra wins. At least a few more first downs.

let's win some games!

Dabes needs a little more Coughlin in him. And I know we were fighting for our lives, but maybe don't go for it on 4th in our own territory and don't go for 2 before the 4th quarter.

Safe & Sane sometimes keeps you in it too.

Id Like to see them extended. It’s crazy to not give a gm enough time to put a team together and Dabes didn’t all of a sudden forget how to coach after being named coach of the year….
I honestly think we only saw the tip of the iceberg with regards to the Wink upheaval..just Dabes body language and mannerisms on the sidelines last year made me think he was dealing with more than the normal team issues

For Dabes, this upcoming year is pretty key.

.

with Jones, and get a real QB on this roster that can win some games.

The people who have already soured are seriously underestimating the devastation that DG left behind when he left. They are both also victims of their own success by overachieving so much in year 1. Made people think the rebuild after DG was gonna be easy.

Starting there first year and got stuck when they did so well and had to try to pivot to win now. Now they are in a position to rebuild again and I hope they complete their plan. I think they both have big balls and I’m a believer.

He came into a mess of a situation. Not a lot of talent and a terrible cap situation.

I know this sounds crazy but the worst thing that happened to him is that the team played well in his first year. I don’t think him or anyone expected that. He wanted/needed to gut the team and start over but when you go to the playoffs and win a game, it’s hard to say at that point we’re still gutting the team. That led to false hope and an accelerated timeline. Last year was a reality check and although most of it was injury related, it just showed the team still needed a rebuild. We all know the mistakes he made with Barkley and DJ but I’ll give him a slight mulligan since I would find it difficult to get rid of them after winning a playoff game.

I’m going to judge him more off this year and next. Now that he had some cap room, I feel like he played it smart not paying McKinney especially and allocated more of the cap to more important positions. Obviously Thibs, Neal and JMS have to show more but I thought he drafted well. I’d like to see how he navigates the QB situation. Does he get the QB this year? Or does he get a legit #1 WR this year and go all in next year on a QB. It’s going to be fascinating to see how he handles this offseason and next.

Fat boy has to show me something this year after the debacle of last season.

The DJ contract was bad but it feels like he has an actual vision for the team and handles finances better than anyone in recent memory.

Daboll needs todo better but I’m still a bit hopeful.

If this year is a disaster I could see moving on from Dabs but keeping Schoen.

I want some continuity though

We knew that the rebuild would take several years to accomplish, in as much of the horrible condition the team was in during the last regime.
I am giving them a 5 year window.

do need to see more, I think Jones is pretty good. As far as Dabs goes, I was very pleased after the 1st year, but concerned after the 2nd. We'll see what year 3 brings.

as long a John Mara lets them do it without butting in.

Especially regarding the QB.

it’s especially hard when the key figures who helped create the problems you’re trying to solve are the owners of the organization! schoen is a first time GM clearly finding his way. but both he and daboll have brought a 21st mindset and approach to how to build a football team and run an offense. the drafting seems to have improved though not the home runs we all would like. the question of self-evaluation remains an important one that is still open. but refusing to really even bid on Barkley seems to me an excellent sign, as I imagine ownership probably needed to be persuaded about that. the ultimate test will be this draft and how they deal with the fundamental crisis of the team - which is at QB. if they for whatever reason try to muddle along with Jones, its a clear sign they either don’t have the foresight or the organizational power to build a winning team, which will be a terrible outcome for the franchise. it’s easy to see a future where schoen’s failure is used by some inside the building to argue against choosing some outsiders the giants family again.

In comment 16442796 blueblood said:

Quote:

you are not fixing 10-12 years of ineptitude in 2 years. These guys took over a team with a horrid cap situation A terrible roster. Little to no depth at multiple positions due to mutliple years of bad drafts. A completely outdated team of scouts and analysts. A poorly staffed front office. Won a playoff game first year.. had a bad second year... I keep saying the same thing.. if this year was last year and play year was THIS past season.. perspective would be COMPLETELY different. Mistakes are going to be made.. No one gets it 100% perfect.. NO ONE.. The question is how quickly can you pivot from the mistakes made..

Thank you! This!

In anyone associated with the team right now. But Schoen and Daboll have been very unimpressive

If they fail to deliver a QB at the top of this draft and deliver some hope to this franchise because we do not have an NFL starting QB on the roster, then I will believe they need to go as soon as possible.

a playoff year with a playoff win with a crap roster. Injure filled year with key players and had to play an undrafted 3rd string PS QB. They still could of won a couple more games with a little more luck. I hope they get a long rope I love that this team keeps fighting even when we appear to be out of it. That is a sign of a good coach.

Daboll concerns me more than Schoen. I feel differently about the Jones contract than everyone. I start from the perspective that letting Jones walk was not an option. I think everyone that mattered wanted Jones back. Coach, GM, players and owners. If you all want him back, you can’t tag him after making him play without a fifth year option. He proved it. Coaches talk all year about doing the little things. Wins matter not personal stats. Under those terms, Jones delivered under less than ideal circumstances, from that perspective, Schoen killed it. No, Jones wasn’t worth that much on the open market. it mattered what he was worth to NYG at the moment in time his negotiation took place.

Daboll needs to learn the lessons of other Belichick/Saban disciples, you need hardware before you treat people like they dio. Not sure that will work anymore..

But any good GM should be able to turn a team around in 4 years in today's NFL. We're entering year 3.

But this coming season will tell us a lot.

Each needs to correct the mistakes of last year but neither should be in any trouble barring another catastrophe of a year. Schoen missed badly on the OL but his main free agent signing produced the best LB play the Giants have seen in years.

Daboll needs to repair his image, which despite the Wink backlash going on was as much Daboll's fault as that of some bitter ex-coordinator. However, the man can coach and he made do with an untalented team last year that also suffered a rash of injuries at the most vulnerable positions.

but they leave a lot to be desired.

For as bad as DG was as GM. He did draft Thomas and Lawrence, two top players at their positions and possibly HOFers.

Schoen's drafts have been Meh despite high picks. No one has performed at their draft level except maybe a late guy or 2.

Daboll went from Genius to idiot from season 1 to season 2. Inconsistency in coaching, going for it at some points then not going for it with the game on the line. Players are not developing in the system. Year 1 draftees were not improved year 2.

These are both rookie coach and GM so I dont mind a little learning curve but year 3 needs to see the year 1 draft class perform, not just Neal. Year 2 drafted players need to advance, we cant have Banks repeat year 1 which was good not great, he needs to be great. JMS needs to take a leap.

On Schoen is the OL, if this unit sucks after all the resources they poured in for 3 years he needs to go. his evaluation of OL talent will be about as bad as it gets if they fail again. He cant blame the previous regime, they gave him Thomas.

Year 3 is put up or get out for me from an overall talent level. Show improvement or it's time to try a new GM.

They inherited a cluster f*ck. It wasn't going to be a quick fix. However, as Yogi, once said, it's getting late early.
I don't believe the Jones contract was on Schoen - it's got Mara written all over it.
That being said, they need to find the QB this year. Whether it's one of the top 4 or Nix later in the draft, Schoen needs to make something happen. If he doesn't, both he and Daboll will likely be canned - victims of ownership's unwarranted belief in Daniel Jones.

the first 2 years of Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau with the Knicks.

For those that don't follow basketball or the Knicks closely, in year 1 of Rose/Thibs the Knicks vastly outperformed expectations. Coming off of a season in which the previous regime led the team to a 21-45 record, the Knicks went 41-31 in their first year under Rose/Thibs and won a first round playoff series. Because of this unexpected success, the front office foolishly gave Evan Fournier a 4 year $71 million contract, which pretty quickly was viewed as an albatross, and also "ran it back" by giving contracts to guys like Derrick Rose, Alec Burks, and Nerlens Noel that were pretty widely criticized in the moment. Basically, they let one successful year change their thinking from what should have been a multi year rebuild to instead more of a win now approach.

Sounds pretty similar to the Schoen/Daboll Giants right?

In the Knicks example, Rose and the FO pretty quickly realized their mistake, and rather than making more short sighted moves to try to double down on the win now approach, they pivoted to making smaller transactions to accumulate assets, move off of bad salary, and put the team in position to get back on track.

Hopefully, this is the approach that we see the Giants take (and judging by how they handled Barkley and McKinney in free agency there are signs that is the case). The big indicator would be how they approach Daniel Jones. If they operate with him as the starter going forward rather than admitting it is a mistake cutting ties, then that will be pretty alarming. The Jones contract can ultimately be a small hiccup in a successful rebuild, or it could be the albatross move they double down on that ultimately leads to their failure.

they certainly had enough talent to be better than they were in year two. In my opinion, Daboll's greatest sin was the way he ran the preseason. The team was nowhere near ready to start the season and thats on him. Interested to see what they do in the draft, but if they don't get the QB of the future this year I don't think they last very long in NY.

I do not expect perfection....I am not going to nitpick and view 20/20 hindsight as ridiculous....They seem to go after their mistakes...and actively try to fix it.

Not avoid, not sugarcoat, not excuse it away

I also like the ballsy trades....not half ass it, but swing for the fence type trades.

Like that they Cut coaching mistakes.....keep coaching strength

was teams easily figured out how to defend Jones, and the team was poorly prepared to open the regular season, which continued for a solid 5-6 weeks. Inexcusable.

The latter can be fixed with a sound plan and coaching.

I feel like Schoen learns from his mistakes. I think this important particularly because I hope things work out to where he is here a long time.

I think Daboll is a good football mind who’s good with QBs. He got a playoff win out of Jones and made Taylor/DeVito look functional despite a putrid OL. He has some game management things to clean up and needs to work on keeping his composure, but if he can learn from his mistakes like Schoen, he could be here a long time. If he’s stubborn about changing, he’ll be gone next year.

from the last 2 years of hirings since they got hired, is there anyone you would swap this regime for? running the draft, picking next qb, coaching roster, etc.

harbough is maybe the only answer i can come up with personally (he was my first choice 2 years ago too). maybe mike mcdaniels. neither is a lock though.

people will call it meaningless but Daboll has proved a lot to me with his ability to win with 3 different QBs. he got a career year out of Jones, solid play out of Tyrod, and then miraculous play out of Tommy Cutlets given the talent level and pedigree.

this regime may not be breaking any records or even leading the race, but they are in it. there is hope.

Schoen: Drafts average at best. Little progress on the OL and he started with AT. Hopefully, FA's help. I like his FO hires. Needs a really good draft and then establish more consistency in following years with more impact players.

Daboll: Shaky on him. Little too much of the pass game and perimeter ball emphasis. Ineffective run game with the RB's. Signs he like to pass the blame. It is not just about wins/losses but the team needs to show a lot of progress this season. If not, then cut bait.

For over 40 years, HC's who win SB's have done so within five years except for two. Time is not on your side as HC.

on both. not necessarily their fault in total but something else needs to change inside Giants HQ.

Some stuff to clean up as with any "newish" GM or HC. It will really be interesting to see how they do this draft and FA season. I like what they have done so far. Stealing a QB in the draft would make my day.

In comment 16442925 Rudy5757 said:

Quote:

but they leave a lot to be desired. For as bad as DG was as GM. He did draft Thomas and Lawrence, two top players at their positions and possibly HOFers. Schoen's drafts have been Meh despite high picks. No one has performed at their draft level except maybe a late guy or 2. Daboll went from Genius to idiot from season 1 to season 2. Inconsistency in coaching, going for it at some points then not going for it with the game on the line. Players are not developing in the system. Year 1 draftees were not improved year 2. These are both rookie coach and GM so I dont mind a little learning curve but year 3 needs to see the year 1 draft class perform, not just Neal. Year 2 drafted players need to advance, we cant have Banks repeat year 1 which was good not great, he needs to be great. JMS needs to take a leap. On Schoen is the OL, if this unit sucks after all the resources they poured in for 3 years he needs to go. his evaluation of OL talent will be about as bad as it gets if they fail again. He cant blame the previous regime, they gave him Thomas. Year 3 is put up or get out for me from an overall talent level. Show improvement or it's time to try a new GM.

KT and Banks haven’t performed to their draft level? Really?

Since when can you fully evaluate a draft class after a year or two?

Odd

KT, Wandale and McFadden didn’t improve in year 2?

Do you watch the games?

Yikes

Side note….Bellinger did regress in year 2

I know it was a different era, but George young was our GM for 7 years before the 86 season and had 2 head coaches until Parcells retired in 1991. 2 head coaches for the next 6 years only 1 play off appearance.

Young retires and Ernie takes over in 1996.

Fassel is hired we make the playoffs in 1997 with Danny Kannell. Suck for 2 years. Sign Kerry Collins. 2000 Super Bowl!

2002 Shockey draft, playoffs. Horrible loss to SF.
2003 4-12. Everybody fired except Ernie.

Coughlin hired. Manning trade. Collins cut. 2006 Ernie retires, Reese is hired. 42. 46. Great time to be Giants fan!

2014 OBJ! The catch! 2015 Coughlin “ retires “. 2016 McAdoo hired, playoffs! The boat trip…..tripped over our dicks in GB.

2017 Gino replaces a healthy Eli. Reese is fired! McAdoo is fired. Gettleman is hired with Shurmur. Barkley is drafted in 2018. Eli given a shot to turn things around. Didn’t work.

2019 Jones drafted. Eli Benched. Eli retires. Shurmur fired.

2020 Joe Judge hired. Finally get a Left Tackle.
2021 judge Fired. Gettleman “ retires “.
2022 Schoen is hired. Daboll is hired. Giants go to the playoffs and win their first playoff game in 11 years!
2023. Jones re-signed, Barkley tagged. Wheels fall off in Dallas. Injury plagued season. DeVito provides 3 game win streak and Giant fans experience fun but also pulling hair out because we want the first pick in the draft.

2024. Schoen and Daboll on hot seat with the fans. Giants need to get rid of Jones and draft a new QB, but a good one, the right one, not the wrong one or Daboll, who coached a mediocre Giants team to their first playoff win in 11 years might lose his job. Joe Schoen, who drafted a pass rushing OLB in the first round, first since 1984, might lose his job if the Giants suck in 2024.

Yesterday’s NFL compared to the NFL of today.

Patience is a virtue…..and is becoming extinct.

He's gruff, but he has mostly held up his end of the bargain.

Schoen has a lot of work to do. The pressure is on to solve the QB mess he created.

If they don't draft a QB in which a QB they pass on turns out to be very good while UOCNN has another miserable year in a similar boat as this year, then maybe run them out?

I would say I'm neutral on both.

With Dabs, at least he has COTY and deserves credit for leading a bad roster to a playoff win. But he really seemed to undo all that goodwill last year. So few 2+ score wins in his tenure, with a shitload of blowout losses.

What has Schoen proven? Does he deserve credit for extending AT and Dex? His drafts are too recent to judge, but the Neal pick is looking dubious at best.

He has the distinction of being the only GM to extend a quarterback after not picking up the 5th-year option—a move that now looks atrocious. It will look even worse if he uses the 6th overall pick to replace that player one year later. Even though that's likely the best move.

We'll see if spending a high 2nd round pick and $150M on an edge rusher will make a difference to a team that should be in a total rebuild.

I've said this before... it's not even certain he's an upgrade over Gettleman at this point.

In comment 16443175 PHX Giants Fan said:

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pick and $150M on an edge rusher will make a difference to a team that should be in a total rebuild.

In regard to Burns-- he is 25 April 26h. That still is fine for a rebuild imo. But ofc Burns has to produce.

Higher on Dabs than Joe. I think Dabs is a good coach & I'd love-LOVE-to see him get a QB he can work with & mold. & he deserves credit for the team not packing it in last season. As for the whole sideline stuff, that shit doesn't bother me. Parcells & TC weren't pictures of calm on the sideline either. And the Wink stuff...its become quite clear that was Wink was the shit stirrer there. That said, Dabs is responsible for the slow start. I think the team wasn't prepared coming into the season & that falls on Brian's feet. I think he'll learn from that though.

As for Joe...let's face it...the Jones contract is an absolute albatross & looking like one of the worst contracts in awhile. & while we might never know if John gave an edict for DJ to be brought back, Joe is the GM so he'll be tagged as the one responsible, whether that's fair or not. His drafts have been alright...nothing speculator. He needs to start putting pelts on the wall when it comes to that. His OL signings prior to this offseason-which are TBD-were whiffs. The Okerke signing was a good one & we've had some good pickups like Pinnock & Gunner. I thought he fleeced Seattle with the Leo trade. But he needs to hit on the QB to replace Jones.

In comment 16443182 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

Higher on Dabs than Joe. I think Dabs is a good coach & I'd love-LOVE-to see him get a QB he can work with & mold. & he deserves credit for the team not packing it in last season. As for the whole sideline stuff, that shit doesn't bother me. Parcells & TC weren't pictures of calm on the sideline either. And the Wink stuff...its become quite clear that was Wink was the shit stirrer there. That said, Dabs is responsible for the slow start. I think the team wasn't prepared coming into the season & that falls on Brian's feet. I think he'll learn from that though. As for Joe...let's face it...the Jones contract is an absolute albatross & looking like one of the worst contracts in awhile. & while we might never know if John gave an edict for DJ to be brought back, Joe is the GM so he'll be tagged as the one responsible, whether that's fair or not. His drafts have been alright...nothing speculator. He needs to start putting pelts on the wall when it comes to that. His OL signings prior to this offseason-which are TBD-were whiffs. The Okerke signing was a good one & we've had some good pickups like Pinnock & Gunner. I thought he fleeced Seattle with the Leo trade. But he needs to hit on the QB to replace Jones.

+10000000000000000000000000000

Sums it up