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Scouts on Maye: Upside is Outrageous

mittenedman : 3/24/2024 9:21 pm
According to Jeremy Fowler at ESPN:

"Drake Maye from UNC, maybe the most interesting prospect of all the quarterbacks because the upside from scouts I've talked to is outrageous," Fowler said. "Big-time arm; big, sturdy player. Maybe he could be shades of Justin Herbert down the road or even a Josh Allen from the style of play that he can have. But teams want to see a little bit better accuracy. They said that was an issue in college. Some of that is the supporting cast but when he's throwing on air at UNC teams are going to want to see him be pinpoint with his accuracy."

Sounds exactly what they said about Josh Allen out of Wyoming. We all know 1st round QBs are a gamble: when you roll the dice, do it for a guy with Maye's upside. This guy's ceiling far outweighs McCarthy's IMO, and is worth the trade-up.

The Giants passed on Allen & Herbert, I think they need to do what they can to get Maye. And yes they will have to move a mountain. Maye's Pro Day is on Thursday, and I'm expecting Schoen to be there. Maybe the last data point they're looking for is a Star Wars-type workout.


Maye - ( New Window )
He doesn't have Allen's cannon  
JonC : 3/24/2024 9:22 pm : link
but he's got more passer arm talent.
If the rumors I've heard are true  
JonC : 3/24/2024 9:23 pm : link
Pats don't want Maye. If that's true and he's the NYG target ...
I have been on the Maye train since last fall  
Rjanyg : 3/24/2024 9:23 pm : link
His 2022 season was better but he still made a bunch of great plays last year. His team wasn’t as good, O Line was atrocious.

I’d be very happy if he is the guy.
RE: If the rumors I've heard are true  
UberAlias : 3/24/2024 9:26 pm : link
In comment 16445010 JonC said:
Quote:
Pats don't want Maye. If that's true and he's the NYG target ...
My hope exactly. Go get 'em.
RE: If the rumors I've heard are true  
LW_Giants : 3/24/2024 9:28 pm : link
In comment 16445010 JonC said:
Quote:
Pats don't want Maye. If that's true and he's the NYG target ...


If this is true the Giants shouldn’t let themselves be outbid by the Vikings
The opinions still vary on Maye  
GFAN52 : 3/24/2024 9:32 pm : link
The Athletic's Randy Mueller has a different opinion for example.
It’s lying season  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 3/24/2024 9:33 pm : link

I’ve read the Vikings want Maye and JMM.

The Giants want Maye and JMM.

These GM’s aren’t telling anyone , anything. It’s tea-leaf reading. The same thing we are doing on BBI.

That being said, if Joe Schoen shows up at UNC on Thursday… Read the tea-leaves.
Come on....  
UberAlias : 3/24/2024 9:40 pm : link
Shhhh....
Code for  
Fifty Six : 3/24/2024 9:51 pm : link
Not ready. Devopmental prospect.
Is Maye  
Reeses Pieces : 3/24/2024 10:01 pm : link
Closer to Josh Allen or Ryan Leaf?
RE: RE: If the rumors I've heard are true  
UberAlias : 3/24/2024 10:02 pm : link
In comment 16445016 LW_Giants said:
Quote:
In comment 16445010 JonC said:


Quote:


Pats don't want Maye. If that's true and he's the NYG target ...



If this is true the Giants shouldn’t let themselves be outbid by the Vikings
Just my intuition, but I don't think they're gonna be outbid for Maye. The relevant question is, will he be available?
RE: RE: RE: If the rumors I've heard are true  
81_Great_Dane : 3/24/2024 10:05 pm : link
In comment 16445040 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 16445016 LW_Giants said:


Quote:


In comment 16445010 JonC said:


Quote:


Pats don't want Maye. If that's true and he's the NYG target ...



If this is true the Giants shouldn’t let themselves be outbid by the Vikings

Just my intuition, but I don't think they're gonna be outbid for Maye. The relevant question is, will he be available?
Easy to say "Don't let yourself be outbid"  
81_Great_Dane : 3/24/2024 10:07 pm : link
but what's the limit?

1 and 2 this year AND 1 and 2 next year? And in 2026? Where do you draw the line?
I've written it a half dozen times...  
bw in dc : 3/24/2024 10:08 pm : link
that Tim Hasselbeck, who does college games for ESPN (mostly in the ACC, btw) calls Maye the best QB prospect he's seen in 15 years...
RE: Easy to say  
UberAlias : 3/24/2024 10:09 pm : link
In comment 16445046 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
but what's the limit?

1 and 2 this year AND 1 and 2 next year? And in 2026? Where do you draw the line?
You are correct. There is a limit. Obviously I can't say where that limit is, but what I am suggesting is that my belief is that the limit for what they would do to land Maye is high.
RE: If the rumors I've heard are true  
ajr2456 : 3/24/2024 10:19 pm : link
In comment 16445010 JonC said:
Quote:
Pats don't want Maye. If that's true and he's the NYG target ...


Make the trade and don’t look back
I think the parameters are in place  
Jaenyg : 3/24/2024 10:21 pm : link
The ball is in Washington’s court…
I did a lot of study on Josh Allen  
allstarjim : 3/24/2024 10:43 pm : link
By the time I was done, I was sold on him.

I know others think his accuracy issues were real. Based on my study, I saw him make incredible throws with great accuracy, a lot of them, that were incomplete. There were factors...mainly, a receiving corps that was basically varsity high school level. The other aspect was he played in a lot of bad weather games.

But for me, I could see that he was levels above his teammates.

With Maye, I don't get that same feel. Here's the caveat...I haven't done as much study on him as I did Allen. But I'm troubled by the inaccurate passes. The bad isn't as good as Allen's bad. And he doesn't really get the weather excuse, nor the skill level excuse of his teammates.

Yet, you can still squint and see that there is potential there. He has as much arm as anyone. You love the prototype. I just need to seem more when a play isn't clean.

So where does it leave me? Not a guy I would trade up for. But a guy I would gamble on the upside? Yes. Still, I can't see him playing early. I need him to redshirt.
Yea, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Wash  
LW_Giants : 3/24/2024 10:43 pm : link
takes Maye and then we hear after the fact that the Giants had a deal with NE if Maye was there at 3. It would be just our luck.
 
ryanmkeane : 3/24/2024 11:20 pm : link
Just my opinion but Maye will end up being the best quarterback and player of this draft
Still think Washington is taking him at 2  
Brandon Walsh : 3/24/2024 11:30 pm : link
.
RE: Still think Washington is taking him at 2  
ryanmkeane : 3/24/2024 11:42 pm : link
In comment 16445083 Brandon Walsh said:
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That’s my fear as well
If Wash takes Maye  
BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit : 3/24/2024 11:55 pm : link
And the Pats arent sold on Daniels then you sit tight and wait for Daniels to fall right to your lap. Therre is an electricty to Daniels game that instantly translates. He has wheels and moves like Lamar but can stand in and sling it like a prime Cam Newton.
RE: If Wash takes Maye  
LW_Giants : 3/24/2024 11:56 pm : link
In comment 16445091 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
Quote:
And the Pats arent sold on Daniels then you sit tight and wait for Daniels to fall right to your lap. Therre is an electricty to Daniels game that instantly translates. He has wheels and moves like Lamar but can stand in and sling it like a prime Cam Newton.


Reports are the Pats love Daniels, so I don't think he'd fall at all. Then the question is can Vikings get Cards/Chargers to bite so they can take JJM before our pick.
Don’t want Maye  
JFIB : 3/25/2024 12:01 am : link
His stats are terrible when pressured. JJ on the other has much better stats under pressure.
Josh Allen is a crazy comp  
SirYesSir : 3/25/2024 12:15 am : link
What makes Allen special are his arm strength and his size/ability to make plays with his feet.

Maye has solid talent in both those areas, but nowhere near Allen's level.

I did not think Allen was a good bet when he came out of college...I didn't think his athleticism would be special compared to his small conference...and thought this accuracy wouldn't get better. I was dead wrong on both accounts.
I would be extremely happy if we walked away...  
DefenseWins : 3/25/2024 5:47 am : link
with Maye as our ONLY draft pick in the entire draft.
A “friend “ recommended  
Dave on the UWS : 3/25/2024 8:26 am : link
I go back and look at Maye’s 2022 tape.
He’s an elite talent. He has some things to clean up which showed this past year with much less talent around him.
It would seem he may have the lowest floor but the highest ceiling of the top 6 QBs.

Worth the gamble (which will mean next year’s #1 to move up. No guts no glory.
If he hits, the rest of your draft really doesn’t matter.
If he busts, you’re screwed anyway.
I don't think Daniels is high on the NYG list  
JonC : 3/25/2024 8:29 am : link
.
RE: I don't think Daniels is high on the NYG list  
christian : 3/25/2024 8:40 am : link
In comment 16445148 JonC said:
Quote:
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Daniels to DC is probably the biggest lock of the draft and I'm going to hate every moment t of it. Kingsbury is an outstanding offensive mind.
RE: RE: I don't think Daniels is high on the NYG list  
section125 : 3/25/2024 8:46 am : link
In comment 16445158 christian said:
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In comment 16445148 JonC said:


Quote:


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Daniels to DC is probably the biggest lock of the draft and I'm going to hate every moment t of it. Kingsbury is an outstanding offensive mind.


Didn't we say the same thing about RGIII?
RE: I don't think Daniels is high on the NYG list  
UberAlias : 3/25/2024 8:47 am : link
In comment 16445148 JonC said:
Quote:
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This doesn't surprise me. I am curious to know what the gap they see between Maye and JJM. I'm fairly confident they'd pull the trigger on JJM if he's there at 6, but do they see him worth moving a bunch of picks for? Because if they want to come out of this draft with a first round QB, it may come down to that.
Is 'Outrageous' positive or negative here?  
ThomasG : 3/25/2024 8:53 am : link
Because we had that whole bad versus "that's bad" thing. And fat and phat, etc.
RE: RE: RE: I don't think Daniels is high on the NYG list  
ajr2456 : 3/25/2024 8:58 am : link
In comment 16445164 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16445158 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 16445148 JonC said:


Quote:


.



Daniels to DC is probably the biggest lock of the draft and I'm going to hate every moment t of it. Kingsbury is an outstanding offensive mind.



Didn't we say the same thing about RGIII?


RG3 was good until he got hurt.
Highest  
Doubledeuce22 : 3/25/2024 8:58 am : link
Bust potential of all 4. I’d stay far away.
RE: RE: RE: I don't think Daniels is high on the NYG list  
christian : 3/25/2024 8:59 am : link
In comment 16445164 section125 said:
Quote:
Daniels to DC is probably the biggest lock of the draft and I'm going to hate every moment t of it. Kingsbury is an outstanding offensive mind.

Didn't we say the same thing about RGIII?


RG3 was the rookie of the year took them to the playoffs. His career was derailed by the Redskins letting him play on an injured LCL, concussions, and ultimately a shoulder injury.

I don't we can project this staff will be as galactically or that Daniels will have the same luck.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't think Daniels is high on the NYG list  
section125 : 3/25/2024 9:05 am : link
In comment 16445175 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16445164 section125 said:


Quote:


Daniels to DC is probably the biggest lock of the draft and I'm going to hate every moment t of it. Kingsbury is an outstanding offensive mind.

Didn't we say the same thing about RGIII?



RG3 was the rookie of the year took them to the playoffs. His career was derailed by the Redskins letting him play on an injured LCL, concussions, and ultimately a shoulder injury.

I don't we can project this staff will be as galactically or that Daniels will have the same luck.


Absolutely correct. But my point remains. Cannot worry about another team, except we no longer have the Danny Boy effect in DC to rely on, sadly.

Yes RGIII got hurt vs the Giants(IIRC) and they kept playing him callously.
 
christian : 3/25/2024 9:28 am : link
It's not so much worry, rather that in my amateur opinion Daniels is a thrilling player and I'd like to see him in NY.
I'm  
AcidTest : 3/25/2024 9:48 am : link
fine taking him or any of the other QBs at #6, but don't want to trade up for any of them, except maybe to #5 for #70. They all have too much bust potential to give up the draft capital that would be required to get to #3. I also think it's ikely moot because Washington may take him at #2, or Schoen was rebuffed by NE after offering #6, #47, and our #1 next year to move up to #3.
RE: Code for  
Jim in Tampa : 3/25/2024 9:57 am : link
In comment 16445031 Fifty Six said:
Quote:
Not ready. Devopmental prospect.

I agree. Just like Mahomes and Josh Allen were not ready/developmental projects.

Maye reportedly has mechanical issues (mostly footwork) that he will need to work on. But he's well worth the risk and the wait.
When you follow the draft long enough, it's all noise.  
mittenedman : 3/25/2024 10:06 am : link
"Immediate contributors" suck out of the gate and guys that were supposed to take a while are good right away.

As usual, it's all about situation (what scheme and surrounding talent they're drafted into and how well the HC/OC integrate them). Mahomes being drafted by Andy Reid, onto a well-developed roster, is the ultimate example.

The only thing that matters is, what would Maye look like getting drafted onto Schoen's roster, playing in Daboll's scheme, with the job requirements of a NY Giants QB.
RE: I don't think Daniels is high on the NYG list  
Mbavaro : 3/25/2024 10:14 am : link
In comment 16445148 JonC said:
Quote:
.


Jon
Is that your opinion or something you may have heard?
Thx
RE: RE: I don't think Daniels is high on the NYG list  
JonC : 3/25/2024 10:16 am : link
In comment 16445250 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16445148 JonC said:


Quote:


.



Jon
Is that your opinion or something you may have heard?
Thx


My opinion.
RE: When you follow the draft long enough, it's all noise.  
Jim in Tampa : 3/25/2024 10:21 am : link
In comment 16445239 mittenedman said:
Quote:
"Immediate contributors" suck out of the gate and guys that were supposed to take a while are good right away.

As usual, it's all about situation (what scheme and surrounding talent they're drafted into and how well the HC/OC integrate them). Mahomes being drafted by Andy Reid, onto a well-developed roster, is the ultimate example.

The only thing that matters is, what would Maye look like getting drafted onto Schoen's roster, playing in Daboll's scheme, with the job requirements of a NY Giants QB.

I would mostly agree with this except to say that if Maye (or any other QB taken) ends up being THE franchise QB for the Giants, then how he fits into Schoen’s current roster is not quite as important as how the QB fits long-term.

By 2007 only 6 of the 21 other starters from Eli’s rookie year (2004) were still around. By 2011 that number was just 2. And of course Eli was the starter though 2018.
Was Josh Allen's accuracy a question mark coming  
barens : 3/25/2024 10:22 am : link
out of college?

I think what people couldn't see out of Allen was his ability to move in and out of the pocket. We knew he had a cannon of an arm, I thought his accuracy was fine, he just didn't have great stats coming out of Wyoming.

Howell / Maye stats at UNC …  
Spider56 : 3/25/2024 10:26 am : link
Howell:
Started 3 years, 38 games, 10300 yds, 63,8% completion rate, 9.2 yds per att.
92 TDs, 23 INTs, aggregate rating of 164.2

Maye:
Started 2 years, 26 games, 8000 yds, 64.9% completion rate, 8.4 yds per att.
63 TDs, 16 INTs, aggregate rating of 154.1

Maye is bigger, stronger and faster but what in past performance indicates more upside than Howell? Or maybe Howell in a better system and OC will be good too ?
...  
ryanmkeane : 3/25/2024 10:49 am : link
Focus on the 2022 tape for Maye. Arguably the best QB play and arm talent in the nation.
RE: ...  
Doubledeuce22 : 3/25/2024 11:15 am : link
In comment 16445282 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Focus on the 2022 tape for Maye. Arguably the best QB play and arm talent in the nation.


Then he regressed. Are we overlooking that?
Worst case scenario  
Jay on the Island : 3/25/2024 11:16 am : link
After Williams goes 1st overall Washington takes Maye at 2. For a couple of weeks it was rumored that NE wants Daniels at 3 but doesn't want Maye or McCarthy. If Maye goes second then Daniels will go 3rd leaving the Giants in a precarious position.

IMO if Maye falls to 3 and NE really doesn't want him then I think the Giants will jump up there to land him.
RE: RE: ...  
Mbavaro : 3/25/2024 11:23 am : link
In comment 16445311 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 16445282 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Focus on the 2022 tape for Maye. Arguably the best QB play and arm talent in the nation.



Then he regressed. Are we overlooking that?


No…had a new OC and a very inexperienced WR core….Tez Walker wasn’t allowed to play until the 2nd half of the year
RE: Howell / Maye stats at UNC …  
bw in dc : 3/25/2024 11:41 am : link
In comment 16445265 Spider56 said:
Quote:

Maye is bigger, stronger and faster but what in past performance indicates more upside than Howell? Or maybe Howell in a better system and OC will be good too ?


Well, you got the first part right in bold why Maye is a better prospect than Howell. Too many on this board continue to downplay that physical attributes do matter in a league where players are bigger, stronger and faster.

But bringing up college stats to make a case for one player over another is weak for what should be obvious reasons.
RE: RE: ...  
ThomasG : 3/25/2024 11:48 am : link
In comment 16445311 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 16445282 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Focus on the 2022 tape for Maye. Arguably the best QB play and arm talent in the nation.



Then he regressed. Are we overlooking that?


Maybe his stats went down. Do you think his QB abilities like arm, footwork, and basic processing regressed? And if so, regressed permanently?
RE: RE: Howell / Maye stats at UNC …  
Spider56 : 3/25/2024 11:51 am : link
In comment 16445340 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16445265 Spider56 said:


Quote:



Maye is bigger, stronger and faster but what in past performance indicates more upside than Howell? Or maybe Howell in a better system and OC will be good too ?

Well, you got the first part right in bold why Maye is a better prospect than Howell. Too many on this board continue to downplay that physical attributes do matter in a league where players are bigger, stronger and faster.

But bringing up college stats to make a case for one player over another is weak for what should be obvious reasons.


Though the OCs weren’t the same, the systems and competition were similar, as were the results. My point is that Maye looks to be a slightly better version of Howell. If you believe Howell is a victim of poor coaching in Washington, maybe he still has a chance as does Maye. However if Howell is indeed a JAG, what do you see that says Maye will be better. I’m not making a case either way, just bringing up a discussion point. I’m not riding any particular horse in the QB race.
Howell's barely 6 foot with a noodle arm  
JonC : 3/25/2024 12:09 pm : link
and might be a marginal NFL starter. There's no comparison of their physical attributes.

I don't know if Maye's 2022 coaches/systems situation was the same as Howell's prior to him. If yes, that would be another indication of the delta between them in terms of talent and productivity.
RE: RE: RE: Howell / Maye stats at UNC …  
bw in dc : 3/25/2024 12:26 pm : link
In comment 16445357 Spider56 said:
Quote:

Though the OCs weren’t the same, the systems and competition were similar, as were the results. My point is that Maye looks to be a slightly better version of Howell. If you believe Howell is a victim of poor coaching in Washington, maybe he still has a chance as does Maye. However if Howell is indeed a JAG, what do you see that says Maye will be better. I’m not making a case either way, just bringing up a discussion point. I’m not riding any particular horse in the QB race.


Howell is a "victim" of DNA.

Maye is 6'4", 230 and his throwing skills are in the same neighborhood as Herbert's.
Chris Simms doesn't think so highly of Maye  
xtian : 3/25/2024 8:10 pm : link
so, throw that into the bucket of opinions.
RE: Worst case scenario  
BleedBlue46 : 3/25/2024 8:53 pm : link
In comment 16445313 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
After Williams goes 1st overall Washington takes Maye at 2. For a couple of weeks it was rumored that NE wants Daniels at 3 but doesn't want Maye or McCarthy. If Maye goes second then Daniels will go 3rd leaving the Giants in a precarious position.

IMO if Maye falls to 3 and NE really doesn't want him then I think the Giants will jump up there to land him.


I'd bet the farm the Commanders won't take Maye over Daniels.
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