Archived Thread

Does Daboll’s success with Josh Allen

Giantimistic : 3/27/2024 9:59 am

Skew the Giants approach to the QB position?

Daboll is credited in turning Josh Allen into an all star. Josh Allen was cited as having accuracy issues.

Daboll then went to the Giants and took the team to the playoffs with Daniel Jones. Did the Giants, Schoen and Daboll think, he worked his magic again and that they can win with Jones because of Daboll and him being a QB whisperer?

Tyrod Taylor looked good with Daboll. Cutlets won three games.

Will the Giants like Maye because Daboll can fix his accuracy problems?

Is there a later round QB that they think Daboll can win with as long as he has his number one WR in place with a better oline?

Do they think they have a potential starter in Lock that Daboll can win with?

I am someone who does think Jones was affected by injury and also am good with moving on at QB. I am happy having Daboll to be our coach with a new QB. I have bought in a bit to him being a bit of that qb whisperer and great offensive mind.

So although this is a QB thread, I do not mean it as another DJones thread but more of a question about Daboll and if the draft thinking is clouded by his success with Josh Allen. If the Ginats go QB will they draft the best QB or the one that they think Daboll will make the best QB?

The connection between Daboll and Josh Allen's improvement

Capt. Don : 3/27/2024 10:07 am : link

is worth discussion but I think it is nuanced. Correlation vs. Causation.

Does Daboll have this impressive history of developing QBs or is it basically just Josh Allen? I think it is just Josh Allen but that does not make it a pattern that we can count on.

I think it’s in the DNA of every good coach to think they can fix most

Spider56 : 3/27/2024 10:08 am : link

anything in a player… if they believe what they see is fixable. But there’s a lot that goes into this dynamic … desire, communication, mutual respect… etc. To answer your question, we really don’t know what Dabs and the Giants see in these QBs, but I think the answer to your question is yes for probably 4 or 5 of these guys.

RE: I think it’s in the DNA of every good coach to think they can fix most

robbieballs2003 : 3/27/2024 10:11 am : link

In comment 16447391 Spider56 said:

Quote:

Exactly and that leads to way too many misses by coaches which leads to people losing their jobs. Coaches have huge egos.

No one in this class, including Maye, has the arm talent and skill set

Ivan15 : 3/27/2024 10:17 am : link

That Allen has. Then you have QBs like Mahomes who may not have quite the physical ability of Allen but makes up for it with an incredible feel for the game as a whole.

So the challenge for Daboll is to maximize the talent, minimize the deficiencies, and end up with a valuable player. He has done that with Allen. Can he do it again here? Has he done that anywhere else?

Cue Daboll tossing the iPad

Fishmanjim57 : 3/27/2024 10:19 am : link

Jones is a hard working, mediocre QB, who doesn't understand the plays. Daboll can say that he'll work with Jones only because he has to, due to that horrific contract. Other than that, he'd rather work with another QB with a clue about what is tying to be achieved.

Josh Allen has qualities that the other QB's didn't have

Rjanyg : 3/27/2024 10:20 am : link

6'5" 250 lbs, cannon arm, great athleticism. His completion percentage was effected by the low level of ability of the team he played on in Wyoming.

You can't teach size, arm strength. You can work on mechanics, knowledge of the game.

I think Daboll can get the most out of his QB's. Allen, Jones both had their best years when he was their OC of HC. Pointing out that Taylor and DeVito resembled viable NFL QB's is a telling truth.

I do think Daboll sees this QB class as very strong and would like to add to his QB room, with the idea of have a guy he can mold into his QB.

I suspect that the Giants would be more likely to

Section331 : 3/27/2024 10:21 am : link

take a swing at a guy who has physical skills, but might have some mechanical issues with the belief that Daboll can help correct them. He’s show he can do it, so it’s not a bad gamble.

I don't think there's anything like

Dave on the UWS : 3/27/2024 10:22 am : link

a "QB whisperer". Allen needed certain types of pro coaching to smooth out his flaws and realize his potential.
Daboll worked with what Jones, Taylor and Cutlets do well (which is what any good coach is supposed to do.)
Both Maye and JJ have some things that need to be cleaned up to realize their potential. I have no doubt that Daboll, Kafka and Tierney can unlock either guy.
But there's no secret. Allen was VERY talented. So are these guys. You have to have the talent to work with.

BD has

Lines of Scrimmage : 3/27/2024 10:26 am : link

10 seasons as a either a HC/OC. Four seasons averaging over 20 points and two of those were very low 20's.

I think he asks his QB's to do too much. Not a big fan of the QB having to be 25-30% of your rushing production. I favor a more balanced offense run/pass with the backs getting the majority of the yards with a higher YPC. Det, Miami, SF and Rams as examples.

If they draft a QB, I hope they move towards that type of O giving your QB more help. Outstanding run game carries over
to the pass game.

RE: Cue Daboll tossing the iPad

GeofromNJ : 3/27/2024 10:59 am : link

In comment 16447404 Fishmanjim57 said:

Quote:

I agree with your assessment. Defensive backs have said that Jones seems to lock onto the primary receiver, as if everything else is just confusing to him.

I'm

Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/27/2024 11:16 am : link

not sure what the point of this thread is other than to suggest that this vague concept of "the Giants" should ignore the head coach's opinion.

Yes

Spider43 : 3/27/2024 11:24 am : link

Skew the approach, I mean. Even guys like Colin Cowturd, who hates the team in general, are high on Dabes. So what happened with DJ? Yeah, yeah, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit and all. But I guess we shall see... with the QB we get next month (I assume we'll have to get one in one of the rounds, I'm still not expecting one at #6 however). Despite the 'evolution' comments, I expect Dabes will get even more hysterical this year, coz' the seat be gettin' hot.

RE: The connection between Daboll and Josh Allen's improvement

Ron Johnson : 3/27/2024 1:52 pm : link

In comment 16447389 Capt. Don said:

Quote:

Diggs had as much to do with it as Daboll did.

Daboll milked every last bit of potential he could

BleedBlue46 : 3/27/2024 8:13 pm : link

Out of Taylor, Devito and Jones. I thought it was quite impressive given the circumstances of o line and injuries. He was 3 plays away from being 9-8 this year. Of course, there were many people involved with Josh Allen's success from the private consultant that uses advanced technology to maximize efficiency on the throwing motion which is really when Allen turned the corner to his QB coach to Daboll and of course to Allen himself.

I believe JJM will undergo the same type of change in his throwing motion from an over the top baseball type of motion to a more tightly-wound, core based throw. This is what Allen did and it exponentially improved his game by improving his touch and accuracy on intermediate to deep throws while simultaneously improving his release greatly. Allen and JJM had the same issue with touch and accuracy on intermediate to deep throws and I think both are based on throwing motion. I wouldn't be surprised if we and other teams think JJM could take exponential strides in his game with the same type of evolution in his throwing motion as Josh Allen did it 2020.

Whether it be Maye or JJM, let Daboll get his guy and work some magic. I don't think Daniels will be on the table.