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| Art Stapleton @art_stapleton I'm told #NYGiants plan to bring Washington QB Michael Penix Jr. in for 30 visit after having contingent led by Joe Schoen + Brian Daboll at UW Pro Day today, per sources. QBs J.J. McCarthy + Drake Maye have already been to East Rutherford. #drafthomework |
I think this is a very real possibility.
LOL
Yes, it is.
It's looking unlikely he will get past the middle of the first round. He may go higher.
LOL
Well we haven't drafted a QB yet... So yes he is the starter. What are they supposed to say DJ is our starter unless we can draft a QB. Plus I do think DJ starts the year and then the rookie comes in like game 2-6.
His injury history is a real concern, but his last ACL tear was in 2020. His last injury of any kind was in 2021. OBJ tore the same ACL twice and he came back and played, and he is a WR. I'd much rather take Penix after a small trade down than trade up for any of the "big four' QBs.
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He has been great the past two years, BUT does a Lefty really fit this team? I just can't picture it. However, if we get a Nabers and then trade back up for Penix now that is a chance I am willing to take.
It's looking unlikely he will get past the middle of the first round. He may go higher.
A lot will depend on NE. If NE trades out with Minny and we go WR... by pick 11 there might only be 3 of the big 6 gone.
On a tangent, it figures the Giants are in a draft, needing a QB, and we may see a all-time historical run on quarterbacks. SMH
And if he’s not there, take Bo Nix at 6. Because you have to take a QB. Doesn’t matter who.
or
- Penix throwing to Legette/Polk/Mcconkey, Hyatt, and Slayton and not feeling desperate at QB entering the 2025 offseason
I think what Penix's workout solidifies is that he's healthy, and there's no need to trade up to exit round 1 with a top QB prospect.
Penix did the Giants a huge favor today, if they're willing to see it.
On a tangent, it figures the Giants are in a draft, needing a QB, and we may see a all-time historical run on quarterbacks. SMH
Agreed... How often is picks 1 and 2 not even up for sale much less 3 and maybe 4 if AZ stays to pick MHj. It is crazy. To bad Chicago didn't love Justin Fields.
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I get it, but c'mon, everyone knows what they were lying (for multiple reasons).
On a tangent, it figures the Giants are in a draft, needing a QB, and we may see a all-time historical run on quarterbacks. SMH
Agreed... How often is picks 1 and 2 not even up for sale much less 3 and maybe 4 if AZ stays to pick MHj. It is crazy. To bad Chicago didn't love Justin Fields.
Too bad about those late wins over the Commanders and Patriots.
or
- Penix throwing to Legette/Polk/Mcconkey, Hyatt, and Slayton and not feeling desperate at QB entering the 2025 offseason
I think what Penix's workout solidifies is that he's healthy, and there's no need to trade up to exit round 1 with a top QB prospect.
Penix did the Giants a huge favor today, if they're willing to see it.
Agreed.
I think the Giants are drafting a QB at 6, it's just a matter of which one. In the Penix pro day thread I mentioned drafting Penix at 47, that's a complete pipe dream.
The question becomes:
Would you rather have Nabers/Odunze & Penix at the cost of a 2025 first round pick OR Penix and a 2nd round WR while owning the 2025 first round pick?
After today's peformance. If you don't take him at 6 he'll go between 10-15.
If we could get Penix and Legette? I’d be over the moon.
Pipedream of getting Odunze/Nabers and Penix but that would rule
@DDuggan21
When you look at where the other teams on his visit list are picking, it’s hard to imagine Penix getting past the middle of the first round
They won't be able to trade up from #47 to the top #15.
Me too but I think we have liked him for a while. Sure he may bust or be injured. But until you have a QB you have nothing. He has major upside I am willing to gamble on .
@BradyHenderson
News story from the University of Washington’s pro day, where Michael Penix Jr. may have checked off an important box with a strong 40 time. He said he has visits lined up with the Falcons, Raiders, Giants, Steelers and Broncos.
Trading down with the Vikings or Bears to get an extra pick and nab Pennix is possible
Nope. It's Penix at 6. That's what they're looking at.
@DDuggan21
When you look at where the other teams on his visit list are picking, it’s hard to imagine Penix getting past the middle of the first round
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They won't be able to trade up from #47 to the top #15.
This is the big difference between 2019 and 2024. Imagine also having #17 this year
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They won't be able to trade up from #47 to the top #15.
They could feasibly, but it would be tough, cost a lot and most importantly we'd have to find a team willing to trade down for 47 and a bunch of future draft capital.
If a team was willing we could trade pick 47 and a future 1st and 3rd or to get up there. It's not unheard of. Think of the Vikings trading pick 43 or so and future 2nd for pick 23 and that was an overpay. Pick 47 and a future 1st and 2nd or 3rd could get them up there I think.
They could potentially get Odunze or Nabers and Pennix for around the cost of trading up to 3 for Drake Maye in other words. The most challenging part would be finding a team willing to do it though.
IF and that's a big IF they take him at 6 and he ends up with another ACL injury on that right knee, that will effectively sink Schoen and Daboll's careers.
McCarthy at 6 opens up then.
So many different possibilities.
But that crazy scenario depends on the the Vikings not having a partner before the Giants and the Giants liking Penix more.
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To say that they’re scared of Jones injury history to decide to take a player at 6 with an injury history with 2 torn ACLs and 2 shoulder injuries. Without Odunze/ Polk, he would have had 10+ more INT last year. I would be pissed if they took him at 47.
IF and that's a big IF they take him at 6 and he ends up with another ACL injury on that right knee, that will effectively sink Schoen and Daboll's careers.
That's the risk for Schoen and Daboll. I don't know if they want to take that chance.
I rather a WR and a CB in the first two round and play drew lock. Guy is by far the worst QB if the top 6 when it comes to pressure and he’s the least mobile. His 40 time is irrelevant due to the fact he doesn’t move outside the pocket.
Always true with such an important position, but the injury history he's had is real. How does that compare to other QBs is the risk they are taking.
Every pick in this draft is a risk. The types of risks vary.
Penix's chief risk comes from his health history.
Regardless, if Schoen and Daboll pick the wrong QB, they are toast. We all know it.
But that's the position they are in... and I've talked about this for some time.
Relying on Daniel Jones and/or Drew Lock to save them.
Relying on Daniel Jones and/or Drew Lock to save them.
This is probably the biggest risk
I'd prefer some kind of a trade down to get some more assets, but it may not be feasible. I've been saying since the season: there's just too many damn teams in need of a QB this year.
But that crazy scenario depends on the the Vikings not having a partner before the Giants and the Giants liking Penix more.
Yeah the odds of a team being willing to drop from the teens to 47 for future picks is very low. The Vikimgs trade down would net Pennix imo though, or the Broncos for that matter. I would prefer JJM at 6, but if the trade was really juicy I might bite and go with Pennix and extra picks.
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have suggested Penix at #6. With the Broncos (and others) lurking, could we see five QBs go early?
And if he’s not there, take Bo Nix at 6. Because you have to take a QB. Doesn’t matter who.
The fact that you think all of these QBs suck is YOUR problem. Keep whining though. It’s not like anyone takes you seriously anyways.
Every time you post your thoughts, we are all worse off for having had to read them
LOL
Couldn't Schoen and Daboll have complete confidence in DJ's ability as a QB but almost NO confidence in his health? I'm a DJ fan, but don't think he'll be ready for the opener, and I think there's a good chance a knee or neck problem could end his career after only a few more unfortunate hits.
How many QBs go before six? The Vikings are going to offer at least two #1s in this draft to move up. Can/should the Giants compete with that for McCarthy?
How big a gap is there between Penix and McCarthy?
Can the Giants trade down, pick up an extra pick, and draft Penix?
A lot of moving parts here.
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"Daniel Jones is our starter."
LOL
Couldn't Schoen and Daboll have complete confidence in DJ's ability as a QB but almost NO confidence in his health? I'm a DJ fan, but don't think he'll be ready for the opener, and I think there's a good chance a knee or neck problem could end his career after only a few more unfortunate hits.
Doesn't matter what the reason is. It is what it is.
Where Schoen will make his money, in my opinion, is threading the needle on not only getting the right guy, but getting him as efficiently as possible.
Is it trading up for Maye? Staying put for McCarthy? Trading down for Penix? There are pros and cons to each.
That would be another over-draft mistake.
Where Schoen will make his money, in my opinion, is threading the needle on not only getting the right guy, but getting him as efficiently as possible.
Is it trading up for Maye? Staying put for McCarthy? Trading down for Penix? There are pros and cons to each.
I don't view trading down for a QB as a viable option, I think it's either trade up for QB or take QB at 6.
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have suggested Penix at #6. With the Broncos (and others) lurking, could we see five QBs go early?
That would be another over-draft mistake.
Stating this as fact, huh?
For Alt obviously.
Dear god NO!!!
How big a gap is there between Penix and McCarthy?
That is an interesting question.
McCarthy moves better laterally and horizontally. Much more of a dual threat.
I would give the nod to McCarthy in throwing off-platform.
I would give the edge to Penix in arm talent. McCarthy isn't far behind, but I think he has to change his stroke.
It's close as to who manages the pocket better. I'll give an edge to Penix.
I don't really find much about McCarthy's game dynamic. Penix has a dynamic arm, but he's probably more one-dimensional.
In other words, it's close. But I don't see either as a lottery QB. Taking either at #6 would look like a force in my eyes...
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have suggested Penix at #6. With the Broncos (and others) lurking, could we see five QBs go early?
That would be another over-draft mistake.
I don't see how Penix is an overdraft but Maye and McCarthy aren't.
100%.
But I believe you should want to invest a lottery pick in a prospect who is dynamic.
Stating this as fact, huh?
No. My opinion.
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In comment 16449560 Eric from BBI said:
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have suggested Penix at #6. With the Broncos (and others) lurking, could we see five QBs go early?
That would be another over-draft mistake.
I don't see how Penix is an overdraft but Maye and McCarthy aren't.
You aren't accounting for his injury history at all?
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In comment 16449560 Eric from BBI said:
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have suggested Penix at #6. With the Broncos (and others) lurking, could we see five QBs go early?
That would be another over-draft mistake.
I don't see how Penix is an overdraft but Maye and McCarthy aren't.
Agree on McCarthy. 100%.
Maye's got a lot of plus tools. I get the criticism for 2023. But I think it's a mistake to not include 2022. He was pretty awesome in 2022.
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what if the Jets want to trade in front of the Titans?
For Alt obviously.
It's risky. You better be sure you aren't going to get jumped by Minnesota/Denver or any other possible QB needy team.
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In comment 16449672 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16449560 Eric from BBI said:
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have suggested Penix at #6. With the Broncos (and others) lurking, could we see five QBs go early?
That would be another over-draft mistake.
I don't see how Penix is an overdraft but Maye and McCarthy aren't.
You aren't accounting for his injury history at all?
I'm accounting for him looking pretty healthy today and passing his medicals at the combine, as well as playing the position in a way that's going to expose him to less contact than the other prospects in this class.
My opinion is that he's the best passer in this class. I think that's great for the Giants because if we're talking about a five QB class that greatly changes their approach in a positive way.
If the top of the board is 4 QB's (Williams, Daniels, Maye, and JJ). That means MHjr or Nabers are on the board at 6. There has to be a team hungry enough for us to move down and acquire some really good draft capital.
Otherwise...you pick the WR and then do whatever it takes to trade back up to try and secure Penix in the mid of the 1st round (if that means trading a future 1 + 47 so be it).
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In comment 16449680 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16449672 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16449560 Eric from BBI said:
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have suggested Penix at #6. With the Broncos (and others) lurking, could we see five QBs go early?
That would be another over-draft mistake.
I don't see how Penix is an overdraft but Maye and McCarthy aren't.
You aren't accounting for his injury history at all?
I'm accounting for him looking pretty healthy today and passing his medicals at the combine, as well as playing the position in a way that's going to expose him to less contact than the other prospects in this class.
My opinion is that he's the best passer in this class. I think that's great for the Giants because if we're talking about a five QB class that greatly changes their approach in a positive way.
"as well as playing the position in a way that's going to expose him to less contact than the other prospects in this class."
How so? Penix is also older than the other QB prospects.
I'm no doctor - I can only say the guy I saw work out today looked healthy to me. And he definitely looked like a better quarterback than the other guy that worked out today.
He's been injury free for 2 years now. If he checks out with the medical staff then he is good to go.
Watch highlights from 2019 at Indiana and the compare to him at Washington
He used to drive forward on his front foot ans turn through.
He doesnt anymore, he almost looks to be leaning back and throwing all arm.
He does not anticipate well and he is late on throws but makes up for it with arm strength.
That will cost him in the NFL. Arm talent is there but will get him into trouble.
I stand by my opinion he is at best Jameis Winston. throwing for 5,000 yards with 30 picks.
You can not pass on 1 of the WRs to take him. I wouldnt even take him at 47.
I'm no doctor - I can only say the guy I saw work out today looked healthy to me. And he definitely looked like a better quarterback than the other guy that worked out today.
There is no doubt he is probably the better QB TODAY then Maye and probably even McCarthy. But those guys are 21 years old and he's going to be 24 come draft time. That is a significant age gap in terms of development.
Who will be the better more healthy QB in 2-3 years is really what the team needs to evaluate.
I am not sold on the line being fixed.
Neal is a bust. JMS really needs to pick up his game. Other than AT we dont have another stud o lineman. At best the line will be average.
At a minimum, both could easily be categorized as killing-two-birds-with-one-stone-trips. Seeing some of the best WR and QB prospects in the country.
This is pretty much where I'm at too. I think it's the Giants trying to mess with other teams' draft boards. I don't believe Penix is actually in consideration at six, but what I do know.
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"Daniel Jones is our starter."
LOL
Couldn't Schoen and Daboll have complete confidence in DJ's ability as a QB but almost NO confidence in his health?
Based on what I've seen from DJ over the last 5 years, my guess is an emphatic NO, they can't have complete confidence in DJ's ability as a QB.
It's irrelevant that he's a lefty with Neal at RT. You are drafting Penix for what he would be in the future not for what he would be just for next year. Obviously, the hope is to improve the right side of the line.
Schoen AND Daboll aren't going to UW pro day just for subterfuge. They don't have time for that with the draft so close
So you think he is worth a 1st round pick, but not 6? If you spend a first round pick, aren’t you suggesting he is a franchise QB? At what pick is it ok to take your franchise QB?
Some fans seem more worried about getting value in the draft than getting good players.
I think this says more about who they think will be available at 6. Sounds like a fallback. WR at 6, QB later
I think the Giants are drafting a QB at 6, it's just a matter of which one. In the Penix pro day thread I mentioned drafting Penix at 47, that's a complete pipe dream.
The question becomes:
Would you rather have Nabers/Odunze & Penix at the cost of a 2025 first round pick OR Penix and a 2nd round WR while owning the 2025 first round pick?
This
Relying on Daniel Jones and/or Drew Lock to save them.
That's what people don't get. We could have a starting 3 of Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, and Calvin Johnson in their primes and would be lucky to be average.
And BBI will complain about the overdraft..
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In comment 16449585 Eric from BBI said:
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I get it, but c'mon, everyone knows what they were lying (for multiple reasons).
On a tangent, it figures the Giants are in a draft, needing a QB, and we may see a all-time historical run on quarterbacks. SMH
Agreed... How often is picks 1 and 2 not even up for sale much less 3 and maybe 4 if AZ stays to pick MHj. It is crazy. To bad Chicago didn't love Justin Fields.
Too bad about those late wins over the Commanders and Patriots.
Would you expect the Wink stuff to stay quiet with a two win team?
There are consequences to losing.
Either way, I like this.
However, let's get rid of the fallacy that the Giants are content with Daniel Jones.
This isn't a smokescreen at this point (aside from the fact that any such smokescreen doesn't help them if they really want the WR at #6).
DJ may be around as a Giant in 2024 but as a dead-man walking (limping).
or
*Take Odunze at #6 and then trade up with next year's #1 for Penix
However, let's get rid of the fallacy that the Giants are content with Daniel Jones.
This isn't a smokescreen at this point (aside from the fact that any such smokescreen doesn't help them if they really want the WR at #6).
You don't draft a QB based on your OL. You draft them if you think they can lead your team to a SB. You fix the OL for them.
I agree with Terps on this one. If you feel he's the best QB option coming out, draft him at 6 (or make a big package to trade back up to between 6-10 to make sure you get him.)
Schoen's job here is to identify WHO he thinks is the best fit for his team, and make sure he gets the guy. Period!
Daniel Jones is not a secret. Everyone has seen him play. If the Giants do somehow love Daniel Jones, and spent the entire offseason wasting their draft research on guys they won't pick to fool the rest of the league, we can go ahead and put them on the Giants Mt. Rushmore of Stupidity once they finish getting Gettleman's idiotic smirk just right.
How many QBs go before six? The Vikings are going to offer at least two #1s in this draft to move up. Can/should the Giants compete with that for McCarthy?
How big a gap is there between Penix and McCarthy?
Can the Giants trade down, pick up an extra pick, and draft Penix?
A lot of moving parts here.
I’d consider trading 6 to Minny for 11 and 23. Use 11 on Penix - I really doubt he goes top 10 - take the best WR left at 23. I’d love Thomas in that spot, but there’s almost no chance he’s still on the board.
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is an excellent chance the Giants don't draft a QB in round one because the cards don't fall the way they want, and the next tier isn't good enough to be considered where they draft.
However, let's get rid of the fallacy that the Giants are content with Daniel Jones.
This isn't a smokescreen at this point (aside from the fact that any such smokescreen doesn't help them if they really want the WR at #6).
The smoke screen element may be to force Minn to think they have to get to 3. If Minn trades with NE, one of the 4 QBs should be at 6. I don't buy another team as a threat to get above us.
Possible, but I don't buy it. They would be wasting a lot of time and resources, including valuable 30 visits.
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In comment 16449560 Eric from BBI said:
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have suggested Penix at #6. With the Broncos (and others) lurking, could we see five QBs go early?
That would be another over-draft mistake.
Stating this as fact, huh?
Can we stop with the “stating it as fact” BS? Posters don’t need to clarify every post they make as opinion. It’s fucking stupid and tired.
or
- Penix throwing to Legette/Polk/Mcconkey, Hyatt, and Slayton and not feeling desperate at QB entering the 2025 offseason
I think what Penix's workout solidifies is that he's healthy, and there's no need to trade up to exit round 1 with a top QB prospect.
Penix did the Giants a huge favor today, if they're willing to see it.
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In comment 16449560 Eric from BBI said:
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have suggested Penix at #6. With the Broncos (and others) lurking, could we see five QBs go early?
And if he’s not there, take Bo Nix at 6. Because you have to take a QB. Doesn’t matter who.
The fact that you think all of these QBs suck is YOUR problem. Keep whining though. It’s not like anyone takes you seriously anyways.
Every time you post your thoughts, we are all worse off for having had to read them
LOL. I wouldn’t have a problem taking Williams, Daniels or Maye. You apparently don’t have a problem with any QB.
Would be tough to take him at #6 overall given the injury history.
Makes absolutely no sense. But it would be a typical Giant move.
Makes absolutely no sense. But it would be a typical Giant move.
Indeed. That would be classic.
So other teams being interested in those two guys is what??? You use some arguments that seem fair and equal then you revert to your old Malik Willis type arguments to attack the Giants.
Maye has been considered a top tier QB prospect for two years.. Hard to say that would be a reach or mistake but I think your argument is more about other traits than actual QB talent..
Explain, please. Cris Carter redux here.
Yes because the giants have made great decisions taking guys on with injury history and then staying healthy.
Darren Waller says hello.
The reason why people thought he would drop is two ACL surgeries on the same knee, also had an injury to shoulder.
Schoen and Co. doing their due diligence, would be surprised if they drafted him in the first round...if he is around in the 2nd Rd. at #47?
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not my personal preference.
Yes because the giants have made great decisions taking guys on with injury history and then staying healthy.
Darren Waller says hello.
What will be even worse is if they keep Waller around for a second season, and actually think he will stay healthy.
At the time they made the trade, I thought it might be worth the gamble. I also at that time, didn't know just how chronic his hammy issues were...so they gambled and lost.
I hope he retires, helps Giants out a bit with cap situation.
Yeah, it is.
As classic as suggesting you're the one that determines what is/is not smart around here.