Let’s say for this exercise the Giants want Penix.

If Joe & Dabs have a strong feeling on Penix, take him @ 6. Don't get cute.

In comment 16449818 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

If Joe & Dabs have a strong feeling on Penix, take him @ 6. Don't get cute.

Ok … so then who’s left in the WR pool at 47?

and move back into Rd 1 this year. Take elite WR at #6 and put together a package that you think can work.

But to the OP's question...I think you have to be willing to use that next year #1.

for their two #1s

You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR.

You can't have both.

Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team.

So your options are this:

(1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year.

(2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.

In comment 16449827 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR. You can't have both. Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team. So your options are this: (1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year. (2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.

Eric, I don’t envy the position you and the mods will be in around the Draft. The needs far exceed the number of picks and we need high end guys so you can’t do everything this year. Inevitably people are going to crazy when we don’t.

He’s guaranteed to go in the first round. No chance he falls to the second, with so many teams needing a QB. Your best bet is Penix in the first and a second tier receiver in the second.

Which is why there could be an option #3 that pisses off more people... trade down and accrue more picks, missing out on Nabers/Odunze and the QB.

still think it's very unlikely the Giants would take Penix at #6 given his lengthy injury history. Nor should they. But after his workout yesterday he's unlikely to get past the Raiders at #13. And if we trade down, somebody who wants him might then jump in front of us.

The Giants should take one of the "big four" QBs at #6 if possible or perhaps with a small trade up to #5, take their favorite WR at #6, or trade down, in that order.

For WRs

And it's also looking like a record breaker for QB draft.

To play your game.....figure away the Viking traded down with the Giants.

Crazy....I just hope Daboll and Schoen know what they are doing with regard to the QBs!

In comment 16449827 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR. You can't have both. Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team. So your options are this: (1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year. (2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.

I think I'm starting to land in the camp of a derivative of (a). Take the WR and then figure out QB later either via FA of future draft. Giants are not competitive in 2024 and sadly not likely in 2025 (at a high level). Elite WR salaries are getting upwards of $30M AAV and so there is nearly as much benefit to saving $ there via draft pick as there is at QB.

Basically I have a whole lot more conviction of Nabers/Odunze/MHJ being very good than I do any of the QBs being above average at the NFL level. I like JJM though for hard so define reasons...

In comment 16449839 AcidTest said:

Quote:

still think it's very unlikely the Giants would take Penix at #6 given his lengthy injury history. Nor should they. But after his workout yesterday he's unlikely to get past the Raiders at #13. And if we trade down, somebody who wants him might then jump in front of us. The Giants should take one of the "big four" QBs at #6 if possible or perhaps with a small trade up to #5, take their favorite WR at #6, or trade down, in that order.

This

how much more do we like Penix than Nix, and how far are we willing to wait should one fall? If there’s a big gap between the two than I don’t suspect waiting is an option. If it’s somewhat close I can see them taking WR and pouncing on a chance to trade up to the teens using 47 and future first for whichever player is left.

In comment 16449838 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Which is why there could be an option #3 that pisses off more people... trade down and accrue more picks, missing out on Nabers/Odunze and the QB.

I'd trade down ONLY if it came with a 2025 1st.

that would mean Harrison fell and we are going to pass up on that IMO.

In comment 16449825 JohnB said:

Quote:

for their two #1s

This!

In comment 16449859 bluewave said:

Quote:

In comment 16449825 JohnB said: Quote: for their two #1s This!

No thanks.

Instead of drafting BPA which could be one of three WR at the top of this draft who could be special (I’d venture to guess as close to sure things as possible) we’re potentially forcing a QB pick with Penix who has a history of injuries and mechanics that need cleaning up?

In comment 16449825 JohnB said:

Quote:

for their two #1s

Giants would need much more than those two picks if they dropped 5 spots to 11.

Giants are in a potentially bad position regarding all six QBs IMO.

There is a real chance Williams, Daniels, Maye, and JJM go in the first five picks. To get one the Giants might have to offer a lot of draft capital to move up, especially since Minnesota seems more than willing to do that to get into the top five.

Assuming Williams, Daniels, Maye, and JJM do go in the top five, the Giants would then either have to overdraft Nix or Penix at #6, or trade down and risk losing both.

If they do the latter and miss out on both, then they would be left with having to draft someone like Rattler or Pratt on day two or just punting the whole QB decision to next year.

In comment 16449864 Dang Man said:

Quote:

Instead of drafting BPA which could be one of three WR at the top of this draft who could be special (I’d venture to guess as close to sure things as possible) we’re potentially forcing a QB pick with Penix who has a history of injuries and mechanics that need cleaning up?

Welcome to QB hell.

In comment 16449840 George from PA said:

Quote:

For WRs And it's also looking like a record breaker for QB draft. To play your game.....figure away the Viking traded down with the Giants. Crazy....I just hope Daboll and Schoen know what they are doing with regard to the QBs!

"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time"

In comment 16449877 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16449864 Dang Man said: Quote: Instead of drafting BPA which could be one of three WR at the top of this draft who could be special (I’d venture to guess as close to sure things as possible) we’re potentially forcing a QB pick with Penix who has a history of injuries and mechanics that need cleaning up? Welcome to QB hell.

That is exactly where we are, hopefully an exit ramp is upcoming.

Now I have really hear it all....he like JJ were 2nd
/3rd round prospects after the season ended.
As to the OP...we can take WR at #6,then trade up during the draft to take Penix late first or early 2nd...for me that wouldn't be much of a reach.

But I am not sure having Evan Neal at RT would work...

If Jones-Lock-DeVito isn’t QB hell, I sure AF don’t want to know what ‘QB hell’ is.

But if they just like I’m not passing on one of the elite WRs. Average NFL QBs are a dime a dozen and not so hard to find. It’s the difference makers at the QB position we need to be looking for.

but think #6 is too high...what is the right place to get him? Should the Giants trade back to #11 and hope he is still there? What is Plan B if he isn't there?

This team can't compete because they don't have at least an average NFL QB. At some point you have to address that. I am not suggesting you pick one just to pick one, but if there is one you like at #6, why get cute and try to move a few spots to get him and risk losing him?

In comment 16449888 AROCK1000 said:

Quote:

Now I have really hear it all....he like JJ were 2nd /3rd round prospects after the season ended. As to the OP...we can take WR at #6,then trade up during the draft to take Penix late first or early 2nd...for me that wouldn't be much of a reach.

The only reason Penix was considered a post round 1 prospect was his medicals - not his talent(IMV). He is as talented throwing the ball as anyone. He is not the scrambler or runner as the others, so that dimension knocks him down a peg in some eyes.
I am clearly no scout nor do I pretend to know the ins and outs of QB play, but I do believe he would be a clear high first rounder if not for the surgeries/injuries and if he had the running element to his game.

In comment 16449888 AROCK1000 said:

Quote:

Now I have really hear it all....he like JJ were 2nd /3rd round prospects after the season ended. As to the OP...we can take WR at #6,then trade up during the draft to take Penix late first or early 2nd...for me that wouldn't be much of a reach.

Season ended and JJ was still a Wolverine.

Scouts and then teams (HC and GMs) do deep dives once the player is officially in the draft and the draft boards gradually materialize. JJ didn't rise, coaches and GMs just may like him much more than the media and some fans do. More common than you think. Fyi: Kyler Murray wasn't a top 10 pick, much less #1 overall, until March in 2019.

In comment 16449838 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Which is why there could be an option #3 that pisses off more people... trade down and accrue more picks, missing out on Nabers/Odunze and the QB.

Eric, you should name Option #3 as the "Nobody's going to be happy" option. ;)

for what to do is a preposterous take.

It will all depend on where Penix is going to land - mid first, late first, top second. His injury history is not going away and his latest workout hype/bump will subside.

Take WR at 6, and make your move for the late QBs if you must. I will be pissed if they give away their 2025 1st for whoever. It will obviously be for the 3rd or 4th QB.

.

LAC would still get one of MHJ or Nabers, Odunze if they want.

NYG could then trade with AZ to 4, securing either JJM or DM.

This would probably be the least expensive way to get your QB and hopefully keeping pick 47.

Give the pick 70 to LAC ( maybe pick up their 5th round ) and give AZ next years 2nd round pick.

You keep 47 this year and keep next years 1st.

Get your QB and have a shot at a very good WR at 47.

In comment 16449827 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR. You can't have both. Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team. So your options are this: (1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year. (2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.

Guilty as charged … I am hoping someone smarter than me … as I know Schoen and Dabs are, will find a scenario that works. Similar to last year where most were happy with the first 3 picks.

because they just need good players (regardless of position) to fill a bottom-tier NFL roster. So, there shouldn't be a whole lotta angst about this draft. The following are all good outcomes:

(1) Stay at #6 and draft a QB that Joe Schoen / Brian Daboll like.
(2) Stay at #6 and draft a fantastic WR.
(3) Trade down and pick up valuable assets that could be used on at least half a dozen positions.

It's all good.

is a phenomenal deep ball thrower. He could really make Hyatt better by taking full advantage of his speed and ability to stretch the field. I could see that being very attractive to the Giants. The question is his injury history, specifically how many of their concerns about it were allayed by his excellent workout yesterday.

Easier to find a stud WR later in the draft than it will be to find the franchise QB later in the draft

QB at 6 (or earlier) and WR in rd2+

In comment 16449903 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

but think #6 is too high...what is the right place to get him? Should the Giants trade back to #11 and hope he is still there? What is Plan B if he isn't there? This team can't compete because they don't have at least an average NFL QB. At some point you have to address that. I am not suggesting you pick one just to pick one, but if there is one you like at #6, why get cute and try to move a few spots to get him and risk losing him?

I fall into this category of liking Penix but wouldn't take him #6.

Why? One dimensional. While he can certainly sling it - a plus arm for sure - he's not a dual threat. And I believe if you are drafting a QB in the lottery, that QB should be that dual threat to fit into today's game.

So, I knock Penix for that and see him more as a good day two value pick.

In comment 16449966 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16449903 Mike from Ohio said: Quote: but think #6 is too high...what is the right place to get him? Should the Giants trade back to #11 and hope he is still there? What is Plan B if he isn't there? This team can't compete because they don't have at least an average NFL QB. At some point you have to address that. I am not suggesting you pick one just to pick one, but if there is one you like at #6, why get cute and try to move a few spots to get him and risk losing him? I fall into this category of liking Penix but wouldn't take him #6. Why? One dimensional. While he can certainly sling it - a plus arm for sure - he's not a dual threat. And I believe if you are drafting a QB in the lottery, that QB should be that dual threat to fit into today's game. So, I knock Penix for that and see him more as a good day two value pick.

I agree with this and the injury history really worries me greatly.

is not lasting to day 2 and I would be surprised if he gets out of the top 15. If you like him enough then you don't mess around by trying to move back.

I could see Tenn, Minny, Denver, Vegas, Pitt, Miami, Seattle all potentially getting him in the first.

QBs like him that can sling it like he does and is a proven winner don't grow on trees.

that's why these guys "rise and fall" between season's end and the draft.
Its the hardest decision any front office has to make.
Take Penix for example. Watching his pro day, he looked pretty damn nimble and clearly his knee, at the moment, is in darn good shape to run a sub 4.5 forty!
His medicals are the ONLY thing that has kept him out of the top 10 discussion.
If you're Schoen, what do you do? For starters, get an up close and personal look at EACH of these guys, including Penix (they are), then decide how to play it best for NY.
You still have next year's #1 in your pocket to put together different type packages.

1. use it to move to 3,4, or 5 for likely Maye or JJ
2. use it to move BACK into the first rd around pick 9 or 10
to take Penix (after taking a WR at 6).

If JS is aggressive enough AND flexible enough, we are NOT in QB hell. It can be resolved in less than 4 weeks.

In comment 16449936 Rjanyg said:

Quote:

LAC would still get one of MHJ or Nabers, Odunze if they want. NYG could then trade with AZ to 4, securing either JJM or DM. This would probably be the least expensive way to get your QB and hopefully keeping pick 47. Give the pick 70 to LAC ( maybe pick up their 5th round ) and give AZ next years 2nd round pick. You keep 47 this year and keep next years 1st. Get your QB and have a shot at a very good WR at 47.

And if you are stuck at #5 and the QBs go anyway?


No way in hell I do this now.

In comment 16449827 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR. You can't have both. Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team. So your options are this: (1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year. (2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.

I'd go with option 1...

will) have MULTIPLE scenarios set up with a number of teams.
If this happens he does this, etc. His biggest strength I think we've seen, is to be VERY prepared for all eventualities. It will be absolutely necessary in this draft.

The WR in this draft are too good. They could try to trade up into the 1st round after taking a WR. It would cost a lot so they would have to love Penix. They can't pass on these WR and force a QB at 6.

In comment 16449966 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16449903 Mike from Ohio said: Quote: but think #6 is too high...what is the right place to get him? Should the Giants trade back to #11 and hope he is still there? What is Plan B if he isn't there? This team can't compete because they don't have at least an average NFL QB. At some point you have to address that. I am not suggesting you pick one just to pick one, but if there is one you like at #6, why get cute and try to move a few spots to get him and risk losing him? I fall into this category of liking Penix but wouldn't take him #6. Why? One dimensional. While he can certainly sling it - a plus arm for sure - he's not a dual threat. And I believe if you are drafting a QB in the lottery, that QB should be that dual threat to fit into today's game. So, I knock Penix for that and see him more as a good day two value pick.

Yeah it would be great to take Penix on Day 2, except he won't be there. QB is the most important and most difficult position in the league to fill. We all see how a team can be crippled when you don't have a good one.

Ideally I would love for the Giants to get an MHJ/Nabers/Odunze at #6 and then Penix later, but later probably means no later than #15. I don't think that is feasible. I think if you want to wait until Day 2 on a QB, you are in the position of getting a developmental prospect even later in the draft (Rattler, Pratt, Milton) and hoping you aren't looking for a guy at the top of the draft again in a couple of years.

I don't think the Giants can afford to get cute about where they take the QB. If you believe in a guy, get him at #6. If you don't, wait until the 3rd or 4th round and get a lottery ticket and hope for the best.

In comment 16449992 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16449936 Rjanyg said: Quote: LAC would still get one of MHJ or Nabers, Odunze if they want. NYG could then trade with AZ to 4, securing either JJM or DM. This would probably be the least expensive way to get your QB and hopefully keeping pick 47. Give the pick 70 to LAC ( maybe pick up their 5th round ) and give AZ next years 2nd round pick. You keep 47 this year and keep next years 1st. Get your QB and have a shot at a very good WR at 47. And if you are stuck at #5 and the QBs go anyway? No way in hell I do this now.

I agree,that is a draft day call...
keep the lines of communication open...then if someone is still there at 5 you pull the trigger

In comment 16450024 Dave on the UWS said:

Quote:

will) have MULTIPLE scenarios set up with a number of teams. If this happens he does this, etc. His biggest strength I think we've seen, is to be VERY prepared for all eventualities. It will be absolutely necessary in this draft.

This.

The calls have already been made.

What's going to happen is the Pats, Cardinals, Chargers are all going to make teams sweat it out and attempt to drive up the offer while the clock is ticking.

and liking one enough to draft him because the alternative options are seemingly worse.

That's how GMs wind up pulling up QBs in a draft and get criticized later that they reached. It is also how some GMs find their guy.

Not sure how much money Schoen makes but it is on him to figure it out. The other noises in the building are just that, so don't listen to them because their jobs are secure.

look like?

Could we trade down a couple spots, select Penix, then use the gains to bounce up from 47 to grab a second tier WR prospect?

The Giants RT situation is up in the air so a left-handed QB would be an added risk. WR is a safer bet.

In comment 16450085 US1 Giants said:

Quote:

The Giants RT situation is up in the air so a left-handed QB would be an added risk. WR is a safer bet.

This would certainly not be a reason to pass on a QB you believe in.

In comment 16450085 US1 Giants said:

Quote:

The Giants RT situation is up in the air so a left-handed QB would be an added risk. WR is a safer bet.

It's a safe bet the offensive will continue to struggle if they draft a WR and ignore QB.

Are we trying to accumulate talent or build a team?

In comment 16450093 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 16450085 US1 Giants said: Quote: The Giants RT situation is up in the air so a left-handed QB would be an added risk. WR is a safer bet. This would certainly not be a reason to pass on a QB you believe in.

Agree with this. You absolutely can't make QB decisions based on Evan Neal. If he can't pass protect you replace him. Evan Neal at RT is not set in stone for the next 3 years.

In comment 16450115 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

In comment 16450093 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 16450085 US1 Giants said: Quote: The Giants RT situation is up in the air so a left-handed QB would be an added risk. WR is a safer bet. This would certainly not be a reason to pass on a QB you believe in. Agree with this. You absolutely can't make QB decisions based on Evan Neal. If he can't pass protect you replace him. Evan Neal at RT is not set in stone for the next 3 years.

If Penix was the clear-cut best pick at 6 then take him. But forcing a left-handed QB at 6 holds great risk.

WR class, take their WR @#6, a good WR @#47(trading up if need be) or later if they designate another need there(CB?).

You're trying to build a team here (as Terps is pointing out)
A QB drafted will hopefully lead this team for the next decade. If Neal can't cut it, he's out of a job before this season is over.
Injuries can happen to anyone at anytime. Can't make draft choices because you are afraid of injury.

think the Giants may be showing interest in Penix because they realize there is a high likelihood they won't get any of the "big four" QBs, either because the teams ahead of them won't trade or are asking for too much. So they are pivoting to "Plan B," which includes making a deeper dive into Penix.

Nobody is suggesting the Giants are "forcing a pick" at 6. The premise of the thread is that the Giants actually like Penix.

I don't think any poster on this forum is suggesting the Giants just get a QB at #6 regardless of their draft grade. If someone is, I have not seen that posted yet.

In comment 16449859 bluewave said:

Quote:

In comment 16449825 JohnB said: Quote: for their two #1s This!

This +2. No team in between #6 and #11 needs a QB and I doubt anyone lower will trade up to get Penix or Nix. WE pick up their #23 (and maybe more), so we still end up with Penix and the #23 pick

In comment 16449838 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Which is why there could be an option #3 that pisses off more people... trade down and accrue more picks, missing out on Nabers/Odunze and the QB.

In that scenario, there's nothing wrong with Penix and Legette with a trade down with Minny or other.

because your right tackle situation is unsettled. Guys, maybe two of these quarterbacks turn out to be good. If they think Penix is the guy, you draft him and build around him as fast as possible.

a big 3 WR or the top Edge and we may get leapfrogged for the QB.

Shouldn’t factor into the equation at all.

In comment 16450234 WillVAB said:

Quote:

Shouldn’t factor into the equation at all.

Not what I said but good try.

Thankfully, Schoen has appeared to be a pretty good Poker player so far. He'll need to be on draft night.

They can get a good WR at 47 and can even trade up in round 2 or into end of round 1 using next year’s 2 and/or this year’s 3 if one of the top 6-7 WRs drops a bit.

Draft would look like this in that scenario:

6: Penix
47: Legette/Franklin

Or

6: Penix
28: Mitchell/Coleman (NYG trades 47 and 70 to Buf for 28)

Or

6: Penix
20: Thomas/Mitchell (NYG trades 47, 70 and 2025 second to Pit for 20)

I picked teams we have a strong connection to as trade partners but could see it playing out similarly with other teams.

In comment 16449840 George from PA said:

Quote:

For WRs And it's also looking like a record breaker for QB draft. To play your game.....figure away the Viking traded down with the Giants. Crazy....I just hope Daboll and Schoen know what they are doing with regard to the QBs!

Don't misinterpret that as meaning there are a lot of eliete receivers. There is MHJ, Nabers and Odunze in this class. After them, there is a ton of talent but the 8 ball is cloudy on their potential to be number 1s. Lots of sure fire 2s for sure. But we have 2s and cloudy ass 1s. We want a sure thing, it doesn't get much clearer than Nabers, MHJ and Odunze.

In comment 16449964 Scooter185 said:

Quote:

Easier to find a stud WR later in the draft than it will be to find the franchise QB later in the draft QB at 6 (or earlier) and WR in rd2+

Find and replace "stud" with "starting" and this is accurate.

We've got a shot at 3 stud WR and 4 QBs (2 of which can be considered studs.)Which means sitting at 6 should yield 1 of those 7 players to the Giants. The true stud QBs will be gone for sure. I don't trust Maye or JJ.

To get up to the 24-32 range. That wouldn't be a lock though. With a 2025 1st we could get much closer to locking Penix in by trading ahead of the Seahawks at pick 16. For the same price as a trade up for Maye at 3 we could theoretically get Nabers or Odunze and Penix.

take him at #6. Even a small trade down means someone might leap ahead and steal your QB.

I love the receivers too, but they don't matter without a good QB.

I'm warming up to Penix. The injuries are a little scary, but his arm is unreal. He also seems like a natural leader. It would be great to land a QB without having to trade up.

but I don't think he's the QB on draft night.

In comment 16450323 JonC said:

Quote:

but I don't think he's the QB on draft night.

Agree (and I’m a Penix fan).

Gun to head, I think this a smokescreen. Probably intended to send a message to Ari or NE that we have other QB options if they demand too much for a trade. #6 is a lot more appealing to them than #11 (Min).

“If we trade up, it won’t be for a haul.” That’s the game I think Schoen is playing (just my guess).

Having a lefty QB completely takes away Andrew Thomas’ best quality. Not saying that’s a reason to pass on Penix, but he’s not the type of prospect that warrants it.

In comment 16450323 JonC said:

Quote:

but I don't think he's the QB on draft night.

Would you trade up for him after taking Odunze or Nabers? Say we could get Penix for pick 47 and 2025 2nd?

In comment 16450455 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

Having a lefty QB completely takes away Andrew Thomas’ best quality. Not saying that’s a reason to pass on Penix, but he’s not the type of prospect that warrants it.

Not sure I follow, it’s not a reason to pass on Penix but he doesn’t warrant it? Which is it?

Penix throws the ball better than anyone in this class. He throws it quite a bit better than Maye, something that was on display again yesterday.

I don't understand the concern over his footwork or his being left handed. You want to ding him for the injuries and for not being a big runner, fair. But anything else is a stretch.

Repeated, for effect: Michael Penix is the best thrower of the football in the 2024 class.

that says they were there to see Penix, I don't think so. I think they were there for Rome. Just like I think they were at LSU for Nabers. Everyone that says being left handed doesn't matter... It absolutely does. Our OL is a mess and our only true great OL is a LT. You going to move him over to RT and hope he continues to play well? Will he want to? Not saying don't draft him, but you can't draft him at 6. He is QB5 for me and I would grab the stud WR and try and move back up for Penix even if it cost a first next year. Getting Nabers would offset that.

?

In comment 16450466 Amtoft said:

Quote:

that says they were there to see Penix, I don't think so. I think they were there for Rome. Just like I think they were at LSU for Nabers. Everyone that says being left handed doesn't matter... It absolutely does. Our OL is a mess and our only true great OL is a LT. You going to move him over to RT and hope he continues to play well? Will he want to? Not saying don't draft him, but you can't draft him at 6. He is QB5 for me and I would grab the stud WR and try and move back up for Penix even if it cost a first next year. Getting Nabers would offset that.

100% not at 6, as I've said I would be thrilled with Odunze/Penix even if it cost us pick 47 and 2025 1st. We could get Penix/Odunze or Nabers for the same price or less as trading up to 3 for Maye.

In comment 16450463 Go Terps said:

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Penix throws the ball better than anyone in this class. He throws it quite a bit better than Maye, something that was on display again yesterday. I don't understand the concern over his footwork or his being left handed. You want to ding him for the injuries and for not being a big runner, fair. But anything else is a stretch. Repeated, for effect: Michael Penix is the best thrower of the football in the 2024 class.

No he isn't. You can say it in every thread, but that doesn't make it true. Caleb is the best. He has power, touch, different arm angles, his off platform throws are great. The best thrower is Caleb. Maye also throws it nice with a better fluid motion, but Penix is more accurate and advanced. Penix actually moves well in the pocket and after seeing him run so fast yesterday I wonder if him not running was by design to protect from injuries. Being left handed matter. You just think left handed people don't like playing QB? It takes a good OL for a left handed QB. Like Penix on the 49ers would be insane. If I was Miami I would draft Penix. Think he is better than Tua and a great fit because they are already setup for a left handed QB.

You are not going to pass up an opportunity to draft a qb that you believe in because of his dominant hand not meshing with your offensive line situation.

This is insanity. You are letting your opinion of Penix speak for you, and trying to rationalize yourself into a point.

Read the sentence again: "you shouldn't draft a QB that the organization believes in because he's left-handed".

You know it's dumb. Stop.

In comment 16450467 Go Terps said:

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?

He was receiving ya? I don't know if they had dinner with him or anything. They were definitely there for multiple prospects including Penix and now they are having a private workout/meeting with him too. The interest there is real, but I don't think he would be at 6. Can you imagine getting Odunzr/Nabers and Penix. Terps? Now that would be exciting and as I keep saying it would potentially be done for the same cost or less as a tradeup to 3 for Maye. Potentially Odunze/Nabers and Penix or Maye?

In comment 16450468 BleedBlue46 said:

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In comment 16450466 Amtoft said: Quote: that says they were there to see Penix, I don't think so. I think they were there for Rome. Just like I think they were at LSU for Nabers. Everyone that says being left handed doesn't matter... It absolutely does. Our OL is a mess and our only true great OL is a LT. You going to move him over to RT and hope he continues to play well? Will he want to? Not saying don't draft him, but you can't draft him at 6. He is QB5 for me and I would grab the stud WR and try and move back up for Penix even if it cost a first next year. Getting Nabers would offset that. 100% not at 6, as I've said I would be thrilled with Odunze/Penix even if it cost us pick 47 and 2025 1st. We could get Penix/Odunze or Nabers for the same price or less as trading up to 3 for Maye.

I would be down for that. Only way I am giving up my 1st next year is if we get a top 3 WR and a top 6 QB.

In comment 16450467 Go Terps said:

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?

When they say he didn't work out, they mean he didn't run the 40, 3cone, etc that he already did at the combine. He ran routes for Penix.

In comment 16450469 Amtoft said:

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In comment 16450463 Go Terps said: Quote: Penix throws the ball better than anyone in this class. He throws it quite a bit better than Maye, something that was on display again yesterday. I don't understand the concern over his footwork or his being left handed. You want to ding him for the injuries and for not being a big runner, fair. But anything else is a stretch. Repeated, for effect: Michael Penix is the best thrower of the football in the 2024 class. No he isn't. You can say it in every thread, but that doesn't make it true. Caleb is the best. He has power, touch, different arm angles, his off platform throws are great. The best thrower is Caleb. Maye also throws it nice with a better fluid motion, but Penix is more accurate and advanced. Penix actually moves well in the pocket and after seeing him run so fast yesterday I wonder if him not running was by design to protect from injuries. Being left handed matter. You just think left handed people don't like playing QB? It takes a good OL for a left handed QB. Like Penix on the 49ers would be insane. If I was Miami I would draft Penix. Think he is better than Tua and a great fit because they are already setup for a left handed QB.

I think Terps means best pure thrower which is different from best arm and best arm talent. And I agree, Penix is the best classic thrower in the draft: that had nothing to do with arm angles, off platform or any of that. That is arm talent. Penix can really spin it at an elite level.

In comment 16450474 BleedBlue46 said:

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In comment 16450467 Go Terps said: Quote: ? He was receiving ya? I don't know if they had dinner with him or anything. They were definitely there for multiple prospects including Penix and now they are having a private workout/meeting with him too. The interest there is real, but I don't think he would be at 6. Can you imagine getting Odunzr/Nabers and Penix. Terps? Now that would be exciting and as I keep saying it would potentially be done for the same cost or less as a tradeup to 3 for Maye. Potentially Odunze/Nabers and Penix or Maye?

It'd be even better to get Penix in the 7th round. It feels he's as likely to be available there as he is at 47.

None of the WRs excite me at 6. A WR at 6 likely means Jones is throwing him the ball, and who knows who will be in 2025.

A WR is dependent on a QB getting him the ball. That's just how the sport is designed. Why are we drafting a WR when we don't have a QB?

In comment 16450475 Amtoft said:

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In comment 16450468 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16450466 Amtoft said: Quote: that says they were there to see Penix, I don't think so. I think they were there for Rome. Just like I think they were at LSU for Nabers. Everyone that says being left handed doesn't matter... It absolutely does. Our OL is a mess and our only true great OL is a LT. You going to move him over to RT and hope he continues to play well? Will he want to? Not saying don't draft him, but you can't draft him at 6. He is QB5 for me and I would grab the stud WR and try and move back up for Penix even if it cost a first next year. Getting Nabers would offset that. 100% not at 6, as I've said I would be thrilled with Odunze/Penix even if it cost us pick 47 and 2025 1st. We could get Penix/Odunze or Nabers for the same price or less as trading up to 3 for Maye. I would be down for that. Only way I am giving up my 1st next year is if we get a top 3 WR and a top 6 QB.

I agree, I'd go with JJM/Maye for pick 6 or pick 6 plus 2025 2nd and 3rd tops. Odunze/Nabers and Penix for pick 6, 47 and 2025 1st might be the max potential of any possibility. Maye or JJM with Leggette/Franklin/Coleman/Mitchell for pick 6, 47 a future 2nd and 3rd would be good too imo. Obviously, Schoen would have to somehow have a real solid understanding of where Penix was going in the draft and a deal in place to get up there. I think the Saints at 14 would be ideal as I think the Broncos would go Nix and Raiders will go Mitchell or Arnold. We would need to jump the Seahawks, the Colts will go Arnold or Mitchell too so the potential trade spot would be with the Saints imo, might have to give them 2025 1st, 3rd and pick 47 but I would still go for it as it would still be the same cost as trading up to 3 for Maye imo.

In comment 16450463 Go Terps said:

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I don't understand the concern over his footwork or his being left handed. You want to ding him for the injuries and for not being a big runner, fair. But anything else is a stretch.

Yeah, I don't get the above, either. The NFL is so fast that you can't rely on getting your footwork on the mark many times. So, I tend to like the guys who can throw with skill, power, and accuracy when they don't get to their footwork.

In comment 16450479 Go Terps said:

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In comment 16450474 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16450467 Go Terps said: Quote: ? He was receiving ya? I don't know if they had dinner with him or anything. They were definitely there for multiple prospects including Penix and now they are having a private workout/meeting with him too. The interest there is real, but I don't think he would be at 6. Can you imagine getting Odunzr/Nabers and Penix. Terps? Now that would be exciting and as I keep saying it would potentially be done for the same cost or less as a tradeup to 3 for Maye. Potentially Odunze/Nabers and Penix or Maye? It'd be even better to get Penix in the 7th round. It feels he's as likely to be available there as he is at 47. None of the WRs excite me at 6. A WR at 6 likely means Jones is throwing him the ball, and who knows who will be in 2025. A WR is dependent on a QB getting him the ball. That's just how the sport is designed. Why are we drafting a WR when we don't have a QB?

I agree and that's why we would we would need to have a plan in place to get Penix with a deal ready to go.

Here's how it could potentially go:
1. CW
2. JD
3. JJM/Maye
4. Maye/JJM Vikings
5. Nabers
6. Odunze
7. Alt
8. Turner
9. Bowers
10. Fuaga or Fautanu
11. Thomas Jr
12. Nix
13. Mitchell
14. We trade pick 47 and 2025 1st plus maybe 3rd for Penix Jr.
15. Arnold

Boom we got Odunze and Penix for the same cost as trading up for Maye at 3. If we were going to do this then we couldn't just hope Penix slid all the way to 47 imo.

In comment 16450490 BleedBlue46 said:

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In comment 16450479 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 16450474 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16450467 Go Terps said: Quote: ? He was receiving ya? I don't know if they had dinner with him or anything. They were definitely there for multiple prospects including Penix and now they are having a private workout/meeting with him too. The interest there is real, but I don't think he would be at 6. Can you imagine getting Odunzr/Nabers and Penix. Terps? Now that would be exciting and as I keep saying it would potentially be done for the same cost or less as a tradeup to 3 for Maye. Potentially Odunze/Nabers and Penix or Maye? It'd be even better to get Penix in the 7th round. It feels he's as likely to be available there as he is at 47. None of the WRs excite me at 6. A WR at 6 likely means Jones is throwing him the ball, and who knows who will be in 2025. A WR is dependent on a QB getting him the ball. That's just how the sport is designed. Why are we drafting a WR when we don't have a QB? I agree and that's why we would we would need to have a plan in place to get Penix with a deal ready to go. Here's how it could potentially go: 1. CW 2. JD 3. JJM/Maye 4. Maye/JJM Vikings 5. Nabers 6. Odunze 7. Alt 8. Turner 9. Bowers 10. Fuaga or Fautanu 11. Thomas Jr 12. Nix 13. Mitchell 14. We trade pick 47 and 2025 1st plus maybe 3rd for Penix Jr. 15. Arnold Boom we got Odunze and Penix for the same cost as trading up for Maye at 3. If we were going to do this then we couldn't just hope Penix slid all the way to 47 imo.

Oops I meant:

4. MHJ
5. Min trades for JJM/Maye
6.Odunze/Nabers

In comment 16449841 BigTymer said:

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In comment 16449827 Eric from BBI said: Quote: You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR. You can't have both. Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team. So your options are this: (1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year. (2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can. I think I'm starting to land in the camp of a derivative of (a). Take the WR and then figure out QB later either via FA of future draft. Giants are not competitive in 2024 and sadly not likely in 2025 (at a high level). Elite WR salaries are getting upwards of $30M AAV and so there is nearly as much benefit to saving $ there via draft pick as there is at QB. Basically I have a whole lot more conviction of Nabers/Odunze/MHJ being very good than I do any of the QBs being above average at the NFL level. I like JJM though for hard so define reasons...

No Offense (no pun intended). But with your view overall on QB's you will always find excuses not to take a QB. QB's are generally reached for. So, if you aren't among the top few, you will always find an excuse to say "I'm more comfortable taking what I believe I know."