Multiple NFL teams have McCarthy ranked ahead of Drake Maye. A high-ranking evaluator I spoke to this week said McCarthy's winning resume, upside as a mobile QB and impeccable poise under pressure all graded out higher for them than Maye."
Trubisky turned out to be Daniel Jones like, Watson started off strong but injuries, off the field and declining play has sent him backwards, Mahomes ended up be all world!
2018 PFF Final Quarterback Rankings:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jackson
Allen
Mayfield serviceable but not #1 worthy, Darnold a nada, Rosen less than nada, Jackson turned out to be a game changer in the regular season and Allen has been a top tier QB for the last 4 years..
Again, the point (and this is just one ranking service) is that Quarterbacks aren't just obvious talent to production equations.
I think JJM is going to be a top tier QB in this league and I think Maye could be the guy the superstar out of the supposed top 4 guys.. Williams comes in with too much Mahomes expectations for me and Daniels could be the guy who comes in like Watson and fades a few years later..
Pennix and Nix are on the cusp of the top 4 for sure.
Trubisky turned out to be Daniel Jones like, Watson started off strong but injuries, off the field and declining play has sent him backwards, Mahomes ended up be all world!
2018 PFF Final Quarterback Rankings:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jackson
Allen
Mayfield serviceable but not #1 worthy, Darnold a nada, Rosen less than nada, Jackson turned out to be a game changer in the regular season and Allen has been a top tier QB for the last 4 years..
Again, the point (and this is just one ranking service) is that Quarterbacks aren't just obvious talent to production equations.
I think JJM is going to be a top tier QB in this league and I think Maye could be the guy the superstar out of the supposed top 4 guys.. Williams comes in with too much Mahomes expectations for me and Daniels could be the guy who comes in like Watson and fades a few years later..
Pennix and Nix are on the cusp of the top 4 for sure.
Trubisky turned out to be Daniel Jones like, Watson started off strong but injuries, off the field and declining play has sent him backwards, Mahomes ended up be all world!
2018 PFF Final Quarterback Rankings:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jackson
Allen
Mayfield serviceable but not #1 worthy, Darnold a nada, Rosen less than nada, Jackson turned out to be a game changer in the regular season and Allen has been a top tier QB for the last 4 years..
Again, the point (and this is just one ranking service) is that Quarterbacks aren't just obvious talent to production equations.
I think JJM is going to be a top tier QB in this league and I think Maye could be the guy the superstar out of the supposed top 4 guys.. Williams comes in with too much Mahomes expectations for me and Daniels could be the guy who comes in like Watson and fades a few years later..
Pennix and Nix are on the cusp of the top 4 for sure.
Very good post. Saying "we can't waste #6 on QB4" assumes that the QBs are coming off the board in the order of how they will do in the NFL. We wouldn't be spending the pick on "QB4," we would be spending it on a guy Schoen & Daboll believe can be the Giants QB1.
are Washington or New England, then the Giants have a legit shot at Maye.
I'd be pissed if Maye made it to pick 4 and the Giants didn't outbid other teams looking to trade up to 4 or 5, with both AZ and LAC suggesting that they would consider trading out.
I'll say this until I pass out: the best outcome for the Giants is Chicago, Washington, and Patriots go QB.
The Giants are in the driver's seat at 6 in a trade scenario with Arizona.
If Arizona drops to 6 they are assured a blue chip WR + additional assets. They might even have their pick of WRs. Dropping to 11 puts them in tier two of players.
1) Williams - Chi
2) Daniels - DC
3) JJM - NE
4) Maye - NYG
5) Alt - SD
6) AZ - MHJr
When information about QB rankings is leaked my guess is that this is form teams like the falcons who have no plans on drafting a QB. They still evaluate everyone so they can say this. I highly doubt teams in the top 3 are leaking their QB preference to Matt Miller. It is in the best interest of teams drafting 5-10 to put this info out there so that Mccarthy goes top 4. I personally like Mccarthy so this isn't me saying he shouldn't be rated high. Just pointing out the likely source and agenda.
But the important thing is to come out of the first round with one of these quarterbacks. That will signal to me that we're finally coming out of this coma.
I have no interest in watching Daniel Jones and Drew Lock throwing to Nabers or Odunze. That will feel a lot like drafting Barkley. Not as stupid, but still pretty dumb.
All of the big brands are winning programs. But it does seem like McCarthy gets extra credit for playing at Michigan...for some reason.
It is absolutely overplayed. QBs don't win games by themselves. Winning is better than the alternative, but to ascribe a football team's record to a single player is blurring a lot of facts together.
We aren't drafting McCarthy and his Michigan team and coaches. We are only getting the piece McCarthy brings to the table. That may be good enough, but that is the question, not how many games Michigan won while he was there.
Debate JJM skills all you want but he lost 3 games in college and won a national championship. That’s a winning resume.
As much as I defend McCarthy here- college records are irrelevant.
Desmond Ridder went 42-6 in 4 years as a college starter and got Cinncinnate to the College SemiFinal- but he's a nothing in the NFL.
Citing to college victories as a reason to draft a QB is not valid. We should debate arm strength, athleticism, and other physical qualities as important- but if winning records are where you are going to plant your flag, your argument is already a loser.
RE: If it's between the two, I like McCarthy better
I have no interest in watching Daniel Jones ever again.and Drew Lock throwing to Nabers or Odunze. That will feel a lot like drafting Barkley. Not as stupid, but still pretty dumb.
Edited the above to reflect where I am.
Sitting through a sixth year watching Jones try to play QB in the NFL is just the very last thing I want anymore.
I'd rather clean my gutters.
RE: RE: If it's between the two, I like McCarthy better
I have no interest in watching Daniel Jones ever again. and Drew Lock throwing to Nabers or Odunze. That will feel a lot like drafting Barkley. Not as stupid, but still pretty dumb.
Edited the above to reflect where I am.
Sitting through a sixth year watching Jones try to play QB in the NFL is just the very last thing I want anymore.
I'd rather clean my gutters.
💯
I think most people here probably know I like JJM more
Than Maye too. I don't want to be too repetitive, but have a feeling he could be special after honing in his throwing motion as Josh Allen did in 2020.
Maye would excite me, but I wouldn't want to trade the farm for him.
RE: If it's between the two, I like McCarthy better
But the important thing is to come out of the first round with one of these quarterbacks. That will signal to me that we're finally coming out of this coma.
I have no interest in watching Daniel Jones and Drew Lock throwing to Nabers or Odunze. That will feel a lot like drafting Barkley. Not as stupid, but still pretty dumb.
Debate JJM skills all you want but he lost 3 games in college and won a national championship. That’s a winning resume.
As much as I defend McCarthy here- college records are irrelevant.
Desmond Ridder went 42-6 in 4 years as a college starter and got Cinncinnate to the College SemiFinal- but he's a nothing in the NFL.
He had the same playcaller Jayden Daniels had these two years at LSU. Fun fact, I guess.
I do agree, as well, and should note this also applies to college stats. The players ran different schemes, different skills etc of teammates, and so on, yet you see it so often. Dwayne Haskins got so many people to have boners on here, it was hilarious.
Debate JJM skills all you want but he lost 3 games in college and won a national championship. That’s a winning resume.
As much as I defend McCarthy here- college records are irrelevant.
Desmond Ridder went 42-6 in 4 years as a college starter and got Cinncinnate to the College SemiFinal- but he's a nothing in the NFL.
Citing to college victories as a reason to draft a QB is not valid. We should debate arm strength, athleticism, and other physical qualities as important- but if winning records are where you are going to plant your flag, your argument is already a loser.
Never said it mattered, but he does have a winning resume. That’s not really debatable
Than Maye too. I don't want to be too repetitive, but have a feeling he could be special after honing in his throwing motion as Josh Allen did in 2020.
Maye would excite me, but I wouldn't want to trade the farm for him.
Lombardi (I know) had some interesting insight on Maye on his podcast. He said Maye was the hardest guy to rate because while the tools and potential are there, there is a lot of work that needs to be done to fix his flaws. Lombardi then agreed with his co-host's premise that if Maye's flaws were to be fixed he could end up right after Caleb as the best QB in this draft when all is said and done.
Lombardi also discussed about QBs fitting certain systems and he did note that Daniels seemed to fit Kingsbury's system the best and Nix seemed to fit Payton/Denver's system the best.
Trubisky turned out to be Daniel Jones like, Watson started off strong but injuries, off the field and declining play has sent him backwards, Mahomes ended up be all world!
2018 PFF Final Quarterback Rankings:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jackson
Allen
Mayfield serviceable but not #1 worthy, Darnold a nada, Rosen less than nada, Jackson turned out to be a game changer in the regular season and Allen has been a top tier QB for the last 4 years..
Again, the point (and this is just one ranking service) is that Quarterbacks aren't just obvious talent to production equations.
I think JJM is going to be a top tier QB in this league and I think Maye could be the guy the superstar out of the supposed top 4 guys.. Williams comes in with too much Mahomes expectations for me and Daniels could be the guy who comes in like Watson and fades a few years later..
Pennix and Nix are on the cusp of the top 4 for sure.
Very good post. Saying "we can't waste #6 on QB4" assumes that the QBs are coming off the board in the order of how they will do in the NFL. We wouldn't be spending the pick on "QB4," we would be spending it on a guy Schoen & Daboll believe can be the Giants QB1.
They might be able to get the Giants QB1 on Day 2 or 3.
Hell, QB8 could probably be the Giants QB1. Not a tough threshold.
All of the big brands are winning programs. But it does seem like McCarthy gets extra credit for playing at Michigan...for some reason.
Maybe it's handling the pressure of the playoff/finals.
People just mention a winning resumè and everyone keys in on it like that's the point to tear apart. The winning resumè isn't really what people are saying is a promising trait, that's one aspect of it, but really the intrigue is based in his calm intensity as it relates to his play under pressure (both pressure in the pocket and pressure in the mind).
Maye's issues with how he responds to pressure are mental imo and I don't see coaching improving that too much. If QBs guys mind regresses under pressure to locking onto first read, not seeing the field and making mistakes then that's not some kind of mechanical issue that can be improved. That's my concern with Maye. If this issue is indeed how his mind operates, then he will never get close to his ceiling in the NFL where you have about 2 seconds or less to make sound decisions while processing the information efficiently. That issue would only get exposed and worsened at the next level. If he slid to 6 I would probably trade down for a haul with the Vikings and take Brian Thomas Jr. followed by trading up for Penix from 23.
If Jones comes through rehab and has a triumphant return, I will be happy for him and the team. I will also feel comfort in knowing the future is on the team watching it all play out and is ready to go when DJs body fails.
Obviously he played in some big games, but really how many times
In 2023 how many times was Michigan losing at halftime or at the end of the 3QTR and the pressure was really dialed up and they turned to their QB...just the Alabama game right? What about the year before?
game and thought of JJ McCarthy as a first round draft pick, much less the 2nd or 3rd player taken. So much weirdness around quarterbacks every year, to the point where even Daniel freaking Jones gets drafted in the top ten.
RE: Obviously he played in some big games, but really how many times
In 2023 how many times was Michigan losing at halftime or at the end of the 3QTR and the pressure was really dialed up and they turned to their QB...just the Alabama game right? What about the year before?
I don't think it's just about coming from behind, that's oversimplified thinking imo. The play under pressure refers to how his mind processes information calmly and efficiently when the pocket breaks down, 3rd downs and 7+, and in big games like against Ohio st twice for instance. He doesn't get rattled and crumble under pressure whether it be mental pressure of a big game or big situation or when the pocket breaks down and he has to process the information efficiently to make a play.
RE: Obviously he played in some big games, but really how many times
In 2023 how many times was Michigan losing at halftime or at the end of the 3QTR and the pressure was really dialed up and they turned to their QB...just the Alabama game right? What about the year before?
I don't think it's just about coming from behind, that's oversimplified thinking imo. The play under pressure refers to how his mind processes information calmly and efficiently when the pocket breaks down, 3rd downs and 7+, and in big games like against Ohio st twice for instance. He doesn't get rattled and crumble under pressure whether it be mental pressure of a big game or big situation or when the pocket breaks down and he has to process the information efficiently to make a play.
No offense, but it just feels like these posts regarding JJM
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
Hmm, not even close. Plus you have already shown your hand on what you think of JJM so anything else is just pushing the same narrative.. What if most teams have JJM much higher than the draft pundits? You are basing your whole premise around others seeing Williams, Maye and Daniels 1-2-3 ( any order) but that may not be true.
Trubisky turned out to be Daniel Jones like, Watson started off strong but injuries, off the field and declining play has sent him backwards, Mahomes ended up be all world!
2018 PFF Final Quarterback Rankings:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jackson
Allen
Mayfield serviceable but not #1 worthy, Darnold a nada, Rosen less than nada, Jackson turned out to be a game changer in the regular season and Allen has been a top tier QB for the last 4 years..
Again, the point (and this is just one ranking service) is that Quarterbacks aren't just obvious talent to production equations.
I think JJM is going to be a top tier QB in this league and I think Maye could be the guy the superstar out of the supposed top 4 guys.. Williams comes in with too much Mahomes expectations for me and Daniels could be the guy who comes in like Watson and fades a few years later..
Pennix and Nix are on the cusp of the top 4 for sure.
Are we really all believing that “Trubiinsky turned out to be Daniel Jones like”? I know Jones gets his fair share of shit,,and maybe deservedly so because of the contract, and the circumstances that followed, but Trubinski? Please
RE: No offense, but it just feels like these posts regarding JJM
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
I don't see that comparison at all. JJM to DJ comparisons lack any relevant analysis. JJM has a plus arm and plus processing pre and postsnap, he makes big plays under pressure and doesn't lock onto first read. They are very, very different. The weakness DJ always has had is his ability to process the field efficiently and calmly; for JJM I believe that is a big strength. And there are myriad other differences between the two as well.
RE: The teams that leak this are not the teams needing QB
When information about QB rankings is leaked my guess is that this is form teams like the falcons who have no plans on drafting a QB. They still evaluate everyone so they can say this. I highly doubt teams in the top 3 are leaking their QB preference to Matt Miller. It is in the best interest of teams drafting 5-10 to put this info out there so that Mccarthy goes top 4. I personally like Mccarthy so this isn't me saying he shouldn't be rated high. Just pointing out the likely source and agenda.
Right it could be Andy Reid and the Chiefs saying it.
RE: RE: No offense, but it just feels like these posts regarding JJM
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
Hmm, not even close. Plus you have already shown your hand on what you think of JJM so anything else is just pushing the same narrative.. What if most teams have JJM much higher than the draft pundits? You are basing your whole premise around others seeing Williams, Maye and Daniels 1-2-3 ( any order) but that may not be true.
It's not a narrative. I am commenting on what JJM's supporters on here are saying about him.
Also your post makes no sense as there is a big enough contingency on BBI that is completely aligned to NFL teams and draft pundits thinking highly of him. And many here on the site easily have him in their top 3 as well.
RE: RE: No offense, but it just feels like these posts regarding JJM
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
I don't see that comparison at all. JJM to DJ comparisons lack any relevant analysis. JJM has a plus arm and plus processing pre and postsnap, he makes big plays under pressure and doesn't lock onto first read. They are very, very different. The weakness DJ always has had is his ability to process the field efficiently and calmly; for JJM I believe that is a big strength. And there are myriad other differences between the two as well.
Sorry, I wasn't comparing JJM and DJ abilities. I was comparing the sentiments posters have for the two QBs in defending and supporting them. Unwavering.
Maye's issues with how he responds to pressure are mental imo and I don't see coaching improving that too much. If QBs guys mind regresses under pressure to locking onto first read, not seeing the field and making mistakes then that's not some kind of mechanical issue that can be improved. That's my concern with Maye.
Maye's issues with how he responds to pressure are mental imo and I don't see coaching improving that too much. If QBs guys mind regresses under pressure to locking onto first read, not seeing the field and making mistakes then that's not some kind of mechanical issue that can be improved. That's my concern with Maye.
Where is this coming from?
Tape and his stats when pressured along with analysis from scouts.
RE: RE: No offense, but it just feels like these posts regarding JJM
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
Hmm, not even close. Plus you have already shown your hand on what you think of JJM so anything else is just pushing the same narrative.. What if most teams have JJM much higher than the draft pundits? You are basing your whole premise around others seeing Williams, Maye and Daniels 1-2-3 ( any order) but that may not be true.
He just repeats whatever Bw says. Not worth debating with.
All of the big brands are winning programs. But it does seem like McCarthy gets extra credit for playing at Michigan...for some reason.
Maybe it's handling the pressure of the playoff/finals.
McCarthy deserves credit for the game-tying drive against Alabama in the semis. That was his big moment.
As for the final against UDub, McCarthy was basically a passenger. That game was won by the Michigan D and OL/running game. McCarthy's performance was about as non-descript as it can get for the QB in the NC game.
All of the big brands are winning programs. But it does seem like McCarthy gets extra credit for playing at Michigan...for some reason.
Maybe it's handling the pressure of the playoff/finals.
McCarthy deserves credit for the game-tying drive against Alabama in the semis. That was his big moment.
As for the final against UDub, McCarthy was basically a passenger. That game was won by the Michigan D and OL/running game. McCarthy's performance was about as non-descript as it can get for the QB in the NC game.
That's undebatable, but making no mistakes and making a big 30 yard throw to seal the game in the closing minutes is all he had to do. Winning isn't about stats, as you know. It's about not making mistakes and making a big throw when you need to in key moments.
We both wish we could get Daniels. You and I have been his biggest proponents here since October. Nevertheless, I think you will be pleasantly surprised if JJM ends up being our QB of the future. And I was right there with you on the college game threads as a detractors not seeing it with McCarthy. I admittedly didn't key in on many of his games, but I followed along casually and kept track of the stats and ridiculed his few proponents here. That entire perspective changed once I studied him in depth, keying in on every play I could watching them over and over while looking at more advanced stats as well. QB is probably the most challenging position to analyze for prospects and that's part of the fun.
Tape and his stats when pressured along with analysis from scouts.
On third down - the money down - this year:
In 84 situations, Maye completed 60% of his passes, 8.6 YPA, 5 TDs/0 INTs. (Maye played 3 less games).
In 82 situations, McCarthy completed 67% of his passes, 9.1 YPA, 6 TDs/0 INTs.
On third down and 10+ this year:
Maye completed 65% of his passes, 9.8 YPA, 4 TDs/0 INTs.
McCarthy completed 77% of his passes, 10.1 YPA, 4 TDs/0 INTs.
I don't know, but to me it looks like Maye was pretty damn good on third down.
Maye's 18.9% pressure go sack ratio is below average for cfb qbs, ypa 6.1 (lots of checkdowns) nfl passer rating of 66.3, 43.3% completion rate under pressure is not good along with 10% int per throw. That means 28.9% of the time under pressure Maye threw a pick or took a sack, he also had 7 fumbles lost of which I'm not sure how many came under pressure but you could safely say he had over a 30% turnover ratio per play under pressure.
JJM's big time throw rate under pressure is much higher than Maye by more than 50%, his completion percentage under pressure is 63.5%, ypa 9.5, nfl passer rating 111.3, below 3% int/attempt, 0 fumbles lost in '22/'23.
Over 30% of plays under pressure resulted in sack or turnover*
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
Hmm, not even close. Plus you have already shown your hand on what you think of JJM so anything else is just pushing the same narrative.. What if most teams have JJM much higher than the draft pundits? You are basing your whole premise around others seeing Williams, Maye and Daniels 1-2-3 ( any order) but that may not be true.
He just repeats whatever Bw says. Not worth debating with.
Now you're going to make me cry. And I am all out of Kleenex despite all your previous comments reminding posters to get some.
To cite me as a member of “DJFC” or that the Maras are racist.
Good news. Bw has posted a lot today. Lot of stuff to plagiarize off of him. Just warning you, if you don’t be careful he might seek a PFA against you… lol
Maye's 18.9% pressure go sack ratio is below average for cfb qbs, ypa 6.1 (lots of checkdowns) nfl passer rating of 66.3, 43.3% completion rate under pressure is not good along with 10% int per throw. That means 28.9% of the time under pressure Maye threw a pick or took a sack, he also had 7 fumbles lost of which I'm not sure how many came under pressure but you could safely say he had over a 30% turnover ratio per play under pressure.
JJM's big time throw rate under pressure is much higher than Maye by more than 50%, his completion percentage under pressure is 63.5%, ypa 9.5, nfl passer rating 111.3, below 3% int/attempt, 0 fumbles lost in '22/'23.
I've seen those stats cited before - thanks. Do you know the # of attempts for each? Are those numbers for Maye just 2023?
I'm not really sure how to interpret them because coaching matters, play design, players executing their assignments, quality of the D, etc.
I concede they don't look good for Maye, but I would need more context.
And I listed third down results because that is a critical down at all levels. McCarthy performed well, but so did Maye.
Maye's 18.9% pressure go sack ratio is below average for cfb qbs, ypa 6.1 (lots of checkdowns) nfl passer rating of 66.3, 43.3% completion rate under pressure is not good along with 10% int per throw. That means 28.9% of the time under pressure Maye threw a pick or took a sack, he also had 7 fumbles lost of which I'm not sure how many came under pressure but you could safely say he had over a 30% turnover ratio per play under pressure.
JJM's big time throw rate under pressure is much higher than Maye by more than 50%, his completion percentage under pressure is 63.5%, ypa 9.5, nfl passer rating 111.3, below 3% int/attempt, 0 fumbles lost in '22/'23.
I've seen those stats cited before - thanks. Do you know the # of attempts for each? Are those numbers for Maye just 2023?
I'm not really sure how to interpret them because coaching matters, play design, players executing their assignments, quality of the D, etc.
I concede they don't look good for Maye, but I would need more context.
And I listed third down results because that is a critical down at all levels. McCarthy performed well, but so did Maye.
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
At the end of the day, I don't know how these results translate to future NFL success or failure. If Maye gets better coaching/offensive system/etc, this might just be a mirage at the college level.
I saw Maye roll out to his left last year at Pitt, switch to his left hand as he was getting drilled and throw a left-handed TD pass. I saw him throw a laser for TD off his back foot against the U under heavy pressure. I saw him roll right under heavy pressure against Duke and throw a winning TD pass.
That tells me the playmaking skills are there even under pressure. So, I am comfortable with what I saw. But, again, think your #s should be recognized...
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
At the end of the day, I don't know how these results translate to future NFL success or failure. If Maye gets better coaching/offensive system/etc, this might just be a mirage at the college level.
I saw Maye roll out to his left last year at Pitt, switch to his left hand as he was getting drilled and throw a left-handed TD pass. I saw him throw a laser for TD off his back foot against the U under heavy pressure. I saw him roll right under heavy pressure against Duke and throw a winning TD pass.
That tells me the playmaking skills are there even under pressure. So, I am comfortable with what I saw. But, again, think your #s should be recognized...
I agree that it would be related to offensive playcalls, mechanics or other factors like the severity of pressure being worse. I can't know for certain that the issue is due to a mental response. And if it is indeed not a mental issue then all those other factors can be refined and coached. I'd be happy with either of them, I still think you underrate JJM. I go back and forth between trading up to 3 to get their guy vs. Waiting to trade up to 4 for JJM/Maye. I think I ultimately prefer the latter as it would save a lot of draft capital (pick 6, 47 and future 1st+3rd vs. Pick 6 and 2025 2nd+3rd potentially).
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
At the end of the day, I don't know how these results translate to future NFL success or failure. If Maye gets better coaching/offensive system/etc, this might just be a mirage at the college level.
I saw Maye roll out to his left last year at Pitt, switch to his left hand as he was getting drilled and throw a left-handed TD pass. I saw him throw a laser for TD off his back foot against the U under heavy pressure. I saw him roll right under heavy pressure against Duke and throw a winning TD pass.
That tells me the playmaking skills are there even under pressure. So, I am comfortable with what I saw. But, again, think your #s should be recognized...
bw- imagine arguing with JerseyJoe. That’s what you’re doing.
He ruins every thread with his “imo” and posting ten thousand times.
“Reportedly”
For the love of the board Mods- figure it out. Its the same shit every draft season.
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
At the end of the day, I don't know how these results translate to future NFL success or failure. If Maye gets better coaching/offensive system/etc, this might just be a mirage at the college level.
I saw Maye roll out to his left last year at Pitt, switch to his left hand as he was getting drilled and throw a left-handed TD pass. I saw him throw a laser for TD off his back foot against the U under heavy pressure. I saw him roll right under heavy pressure against Duke and throw a winning TD pass.
That tells me the playmaking skills are there even under pressure. So, I am comfortable with what I saw. But, again, think your #s should be recognized...
bw- imagine arguing with JerseyJoe. That’s what you’re doing.
He ruins every thread with his “imo” and posting ten thousand times.
“Reportedly”
For the love of the board Mods- figure it out. Its the same shit every draft season.
Get rid of him before be ruins Sy’s threads.
You want the mods to ban *thesd* kinds of posts? They're wholly innocuous to me.
Inoffensive is better. Why would someone think BleedBlue's pro-McCarthy posts are ban-worthy, especially compared to so many other posts?
Brandon Walsh thinks I'm JerseyJoe and I trigger him, I ignore him now because he has repeatedly called me Jersey Joe and seems kind of obsessed. No big deal to me, I just don't feed the trolls. I appreciate that santacruz.
I'm just extremely excited for the draft doing as much research and studying as I can, I like to do that every year, but this is the biggest draft for us since '04 imo (you like that imo Brandon?)
bw- imagine arguing with JerseyJoe. That’s what you’re doing.
He ruins every thread with his “imo” and posting ten thousand times.
“Reportedly”
For the love of the board Mods- figure it out. Its the same shit every draft season.
Get rid of him before be ruins Sy’s threads.
This doesn't really bother me. It's a reasonable debate.
If things start to get sideways with a poster, I just ignore it and move on. Getting caught up in dupes/bans has never been my thing.
Bw and I have had many friendly discussions and debates. We were the two big proponents of Jayden Daniels last year together before anyone believed in fact. I appreciate you bw.
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
At the end of the day, I don't know how these results translate to future NFL success or failure. If Maye gets better coaching/offensive system/etc, this might just be a mirage at the college level.
I saw Maye roll out to his left last year at Pitt, switch to his left hand as he was getting drilled and throw a left-handed TD pass. I saw him throw a laser for TD off his back foot against the U under heavy pressure. I saw him roll right under heavy pressure against Duke and throw a winning TD pass.
That tells me the playmaking skills are there even under pressure. So, I am comfortable with what I saw. But, again, think your #s should be recognized...
bw- imagine arguing with JerseyJoe. That’s what you’re doing.
He ruins every thread with his “imo” and posting ten thousand times.
“Reportedly”
For the love of the board Mods- figure it out. Its the same shit every draft season.
Get rid of him before be ruins Sy’s threads.
BTW, my former handles were Hakeem "The Dream" Nicks and Jerry "Championship" Reese. I've been here since about 05 and I honestly remember JerseyJoe's name but only because people mention it here like some kind of archetypal bad poster. He wasn't memorable to me, I guess.
Blessings to you though, Brandon. I'm sorry you're angry.
All kidding aside, JJ, in my humble opinion, seems like a Patriot type of pick.
Daniels
Maye
McCarthy
Can all be very successful in the league if supported by teammates and coaches. They all have traits that the top QBs have.
Well no, he didn’t say he spoke to every team about it.
Daniels
Maye
McCarthy
Can all be very successful in the league if supported by teammates and coaches. They all have traits that the top QBs have.
Same
I guess that was all BS. Or maybe this is?
By many accounts, Maye's footwork and mechanics really need to be cleaned up and his decision making last year was not good.
Can those issues be cleaned up? Maybe. Maybe not. But there are questions.
Watson
Mahomes
Kizer
Trubisky turned out to be Daniel Jones like, Watson started off strong but injuries, off the field and declining play has sent him backwards, Mahomes ended up be all world!
2018 PFF Final Quarterback Rankings:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jackson
Allen
Mayfield serviceable but not #1 worthy, Darnold a nada, Rosen less than nada, Jackson turned out to be a game changer in the regular season and Allen has been a top tier QB for the last 4 years..
Again, the point (and this is just one ranking service) is that Quarterbacks aren't just obvious talent to production equations.
I think JJM is going to be a top tier QB in this league and I think Maye could be the guy the superstar out of the supposed top 4 guys.. Williams comes in with too much Mahomes expectations for me and Daniels could be the guy who comes in like Watson and fades a few years later..
Pennix and Nix are on the cusp of the top 4 for sure.
(I didn't say it wasn't fun)
Watson
Mahomes
Kizer
Trubisky turned out to be Daniel Jones like, Watson started off strong but injuries, off the field and declining play has sent him backwards, Mahomes ended up be all world!
2018 PFF Final Quarterback Rankings:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jackson
Allen
Mayfield serviceable but not #1 worthy, Darnold a nada, Rosen less than nada, Jackson turned out to be a game changer in the regular season and Allen has been a top tier QB for the last 4 years..
Again, the point (and this is just one ranking service) is that Quarterbacks aren't just obvious talent to production equations.
I think JJM is going to be a top tier QB in this league and I think Maye could be the guy the superstar out of the supposed top 4 guys.. Williams comes in with too much Mahomes expectations for me and Daniels could be the guy who comes in like Watson and fades a few years later..
Pennix and Nix are on the cusp of the top 4 for sure.
9 guys … only 1 has been to the big show.
LMAO.
Watson
Mahomes
Kizer
Trubisky turned out to be Daniel Jones like, Watson started off strong but injuries, off the field and declining play has sent him backwards, Mahomes ended up be all world!
2018 PFF Final Quarterback Rankings:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jackson
Allen
Mayfield serviceable but not #1 worthy, Darnold a nada, Rosen less than nada, Jackson turned out to be a game changer in the regular season and Allen has been a top tier QB for the last 4 years..
Again, the point (and this is just one ranking service) is that Quarterbacks aren't just obvious talent to production equations.
I think JJM is going to be a top tier QB in this league and I think Maye could be the guy the superstar out of the supposed top 4 guys.. Williams comes in with too much Mahomes expectations for me and Daniels could be the guy who comes in like Watson and fades a few years later..
Pennix and Nix are on the cusp of the top 4 for sure.
Very good post. Saying "we can't waste #6 on QB4" assumes that the QBs are coming off the board in the order of how they will do in the NFL. We wouldn't be spending the pick on "QB4," we would be spending it on a guy Schoen & Daboll believe can be the Giants QB1.
I'd be pissed if Maye made it to pick 4 and the Giants didn't outbid other teams looking to trade up to 4 or 5, with both AZ and LAC suggesting that they would consider trading out.
The Giants are in the driver's seat at 6 in a trade scenario with Arizona.
If Arizona drops to 6 they are assured a blue chip WR + additional assets. They might even have their pick of WRs. Dropping to 11 puts them in tier two of players.
1) Williams - Chi
2) Daniels - DC
3) JJM - NE
4) Maye - NYG
5) Alt - SD
6) AZ - MHJr
Maye fits the Josh Allen archetype. Can’t see any way they’d pass him up.
LMAO.
Debate JJM skills all you want but he lost 3 games in college and won a national championship. That’s a winning resume.
LMAO.
I think that is overplayed, too.
All of the big brands are winning programs. But it does seem like McCarthy gets extra credit for playing at Michigan...for some reason.
I have no interest in watching Daniel Jones and Drew Lock throwing to Nabers or Odunze. That will feel a lot like drafting Barkley. Not as stupid, but still pretty dumb.
Quote:
"winning resume".
LMAO.
Debate JJM skills all you want but he lost 3 games in college and won a national championship. That’s a winning resume.
Lost only 1 as a starter.
Minnesota has by far the best situation.
Then Chicago
Then NE, Washington, and us are lumped together because it’s not very appealing.
Whoever goes to Minny - should have instant success - and if they don’t - that’s gonna be very problematic.
Quote:
"winning resume".
LMAO.
I think that is overplayed, too.
All of the big brands are winning programs. But it does seem like McCarthy gets extra credit for playing at Michigan...for some reason.
It is absolutely overplayed. QBs don't win games by themselves. Winning is better than the alternative, but to ascribe a football team's record to a single player is blurring a lot of facts together.
We aren't drafting McCarthy and his Michigan team and coaches. We are only getting the piece McCarthy brings to the table. That may be good enough, but that is the question, not how many games Michigan won while he was there.
Schrager
And obviously
Glazer (who doesn’t say much anymore)
Schefter (same at least regarding the draft)
Rapoport
MG
Pelissero
Jordan Schultz has gotten good
These are who everyone should be paying attention to.
Guys like Matt Miller and Tony Pauline suck and constantly wrong every year.
Quote:
"winning resume".
LMAO.
Debate JJM skills all you want but he lost 3 games in college and won a national championship. That’s a winning resume.
As much as I defend McCarthy here- college records are irrelevant.
Desmond Ridder went 42-6 in 4 years as a college starter and got Cinncinnate to the College SemiFinal- but he's a nothing in the NFL.
Citing to college victories as a reason to draft a QB is not valid. We should debate arm strength, athleticism, and other physical qualities as important- but if winning records are where you are going to plant your flag, your argument is already a loser.
I have no interest in watching Daniel Jones ever again. and Drew Lock throwing to Nabers or Odunze. That will feel a lot like drafting Barkley. Not as stupid, but still pretty dumb.
Edited the above to reflect where I am.
Sitting through a sixth year watching Jones try to play QB in the NFL is just the very last thing I want anymore.
I'd rather clean my gutters.
Quote:
I have no interest in watching Daniel Jones ever again. and Drew Lock throwing to Nabers or Odunze. That will feel a lot like drafting Barkley. Not as stupid, but still pretty dumb.
Edited the above to reflect where I am.
Sitting through a sixth year watching Jones try to play QB in the NFL is just the very last thing I want anymore.
I'd rather clean my gutters.
💯
Maye would excite me, but I wouldn't want to trade the farm for him.
I have no interest in watching Daniel Jones and Drew Lock throwing to Nabers or Odunze. That will feel a lot like drafting Barkley. Not as stupid, but still pretty dumb.
Same.
Quote:
In comment 16450107 mittenedman said:
Quote:
"winning resume".
LMAO.
Debate JJM skills all you want but he lost 3 games in college and won a national championship. That’s a winning resume.
As much as I defend McCarthy here- college records are irrelevant.
Desmond Ridder went 42-6 in 4 years as a college starter and got Cinncinnate to the College SemiFinal- but he's a nothing in the NFL.
He had the same playcaller Jayden Daniels had these two years at LSU. Fun fact, I guess.
I do agree, as well, and should note this also applies to college stats. The players ran different schemes, different skills etc of teammates, and so on, yet you see it so often. Dwayne Haskins got so many people to have boners on here, it was hilarious.
Quote:
In comment 16450107 mittenedman said:
Quote:
"winning resume".
LMAO.
Debate JJM skills all you want but he lost 3 games in college and won a national championship. That’s a winning resume.
As much as I defend McCarthy here- college records are irrelevant.
Desmond Ridder went 42-6 in 4 years as a college starter and got Cinncinnate to the College SemiFinal- but he's a nothing in the NFL.
Citing to college victories as a reason to draft a QB is not valid. We should debate arm strength, athleticism, and other physical qualities as important- but if winning records are where you are going to plant your flag, your argument is already a loser.
Never said it mattered, but he does have a winning resume. That’s not really debatable
Quote:
"winning resume".
LMAO.
I think that is overplayed, too.
All of the big brands are winning programs. But it does seem like McCarthy gets extra credit for playing at Michigan...for some reason.
Sure thing coach!
Maye would excite me, but I wouldn't want to trade the farm for him.
Lombardi (I know) had some interesting insight on Maye on his podcast. He said Maye was the hardest guy to rate because while the tools and potential are there, there is a lot of work that needs to be done to fix his flaws. Lombardi then agreed with his co-host's premise that if Maye's flaws were to be fixed he could end up right after Caleb as the best QB in this draft when all is said and done.
Lombardi also discussed about QBs fitting certain systems and he did note that Daniels seemed to fit Kingsbury's system the best and Nix seemed to fit Payton/Denver's system the best.
Quote:
Trubisky
Watson
Mahomes
Kizer
Trubisky turned out to be Daniel Jones like, Watson started off strong but injuries, off the field and declining play has sent him backwards, Mahomes ended up be all world!
2018 PFF Final Quarterback Rankings:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jackson
Allen
Mayfield serviceable but not #1 worthy, Darnold a nada, Rosen less than nada, Jackson turned out to be a game changer in the regular season and Allen has been a top tier QB for the last 4 years..
Again, the point (and this is just one ranking service) is that Quarterbacks aren't just obvious talent to production equations.
I think JJM is going to be a top tier QB in this league and I think Maye could be the guy the superstar out of the supposed top 4 guys.. Williams comes in with too much Mahomes expectations for me and Daniels could be the guy who comes in like Watson and fades a few years later..
Pennix and Nix are on the cusp of the top 4 for sure.
Very good post. Saying "we can't waste #6 on QB4" assumes that the QBs are coming off the board in the order of how they will do in the NFL. We wouldn't be spending the pick on "QB4," we would be spending it on a guy Schoen & Daboll believe can be the Giants QB1.
They might be able to get the Giants QB1 on Day 2 or 3.
Hell, QB8 could probably be the Giants QB1. Not a tough threshold.
Quote:
In comment 16450107 mittenedman said:
Quote:
"winning resume".
LMAO.
I think that is overplayed, too.
All of the big brands are winning programs. But it does seem like McCarthy gets extra credit for playing at Michigan...for some reason.
Maybe it's handling the pressure of the playoff/finals.
People just mention a winning resumè and everyone keys in on it like that's the point to tear apart. The winning resumè isn't really what people are saying is a promising trait, that's one aspect of it, but really the intrigue is based in his calm intensity as it relates to his play under pressure (both pressure in the pocket and pressure in the mind).
Maye's issues with how he responds to pressure are mental imo and I don't see coaching improving that too much. If QBs guys mind regresses under pressure to locking onto first read, not seeing the field and making mistakes then that's not some kind of mechanical issue that can be improved. That's my concern with Maye. If this issue is indeed how his mind operates, then he will never get close to his ceiling in the NFL where you have about 2 seconds or less to make sound decisions while processing the information efficiently. That issue would only get exposed and worsened at the next level. If he slid to 6 I would probably trade down for a haul with the Vikings and take Brian Thomas Jr. followed by trading up for Penix from 23.
Wins greater than all.
Upside matters
Risk matters.
We need a replacement for Jones on the team.
No question.
If Jones comes through rehab and has a triumphant return, I will be happy for him and the team. I will also feel comfort in knowing the future is on the team watching it all play out and is ready to go when DJs body fails.
In 2023 how many times was Michigan losing at halftime or at the end of the 3QTR and the pressure was really dialed up and they turned to their QB...just the Alabama game right? What about the year before?
In 2023 how many times was Michigan losing at halftime or at the end of the 3QTR and the pressure was really dialed up and they turned to their QB...just the Alabama game right? What about the year before?
I don't think it's just about coming from behind, that's oversimplified thinking imo. The play under pressure refers to how his mind processes information calmly and efficiently when the pocket breaks down, 3rd downs and 7+, and in big games like against Ohio st twice for instance. He doesn't get rattled and crumble under pressure whether it be mental pressure of a big game or big situation or when the pocket breaks down and he has to process the information efficiently to make a play.
In 2023 how many times was Michigan losing at halftime or at the end of the 3QTR and the pressure was really dialed up and they turned to their QB...just the Alabama game right? What about the year before?
I don't think it's just about coming from behind, that's oversimplified thinking imo. The play under pressure refers to how his mind processes information calmly and efficiently when the pocket breaks down, 3rd downs and 7+, and in big games like against Ohio st twice for instance. He doesn't get rattled and crumble under pressure whether it be mental pressure of a big game or big situation or when the pocket breaks down and he has to process the information efficiently to make a play.
Hmm, not even close. Plus you have already shown your hand on what you think of JJM so anything else is just pushing the same narrative.. What if most teams have JJM much higher than the draft pundits? You are basing your whole premise around others seeing Williams, Maye and Daniels 1-2-3 ( any order) but that may not be true.
Watson
Mahomes
Kizer
Trubisky turned out to be Daniel Jones like, Watson started off strong but injuries, off the field and declining play has sent him backwards, Mahomes ended up be all world!
2018 PFF Final Quarterback Rankings:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jackson
Allen
Mayfield serviceable but not #1 worthy, Darnold a nada, Rosen less than nada, Jackson turned out to be a game changer in the regular season and Allen has been a top tier QB for the last 4 years..
Again, the point (and this is just one ranking service) is that Quarterbacks aren't just obvious talent to production equations.
I think JJM is going to be a top tier QB in this league and I think Maye could be the guy the superstar out of the supposed top 4 guys.. Williams comes in with too much Mahomes expectations for me and Daniels could be the guy who comes in like Watson and fades a few years later..
Pennix and Nix are on the cusp of the top 4 for sure.
Are we really all believing that “Trubiinsky turned out to be Daniel Jones like”? I know Jones gets his fair share of shit,,and maybe deservedly so because of the contract, and the circumstances that followed, but Trubinski? Please
I don't see that comparison at all. JJM to DJ comparisons lack any relevant analysis. JJM has a plus arm and plus processing pre and postsnap, he makes big plays under pressure and doesn't lock onto first read. They are very, very different. The weakness DJ always has had is his ability to process the field efficiently and calmly; for JJM I believe that is a big strength. And there are myriad other differences between the two as well.
Right it could be Andy Reid and the Chiefs saying it.
Quote:
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
Hmm, not even close. Plus you have already shown your hand on what you think of JJM so anything else is just pushing the same narrative.. What if most teams have JJM much higher than the draft pundits? You are basing your whole premise around others seeing Williams, Maye and Daniels 1-2-3 ( any order) but that may not be true.
It's not a narrative. I am commenting on what JJM's supporters on here are saying about him.
Also your post makes no sense as there is a big enough contingency on BBI that is completely aligned to NFL teams and draft pundits thinking highly of him. And many here on the site easily have him in their top 3 as well.
Quote:
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
I don't see that comparison at all. JJM to DJ comparisons lack any relevant analysis. JJM has a plus arm and plus processing pre and postsnap, he makes big plays under pressure and doesn't lock onto first read. They are very, very different. The weakness DJ always has had is his ability to process the field efficiently and calmly; for JJM I believe that is a big strength. And there are myriad other differences between the two as well.
Sorry, I wasn't comparing JJM and DJ abilities. I was comparing the sentiments posters have for the two QBs in defending and supporting them. Unwavering.
Maye's issues with how he responds to pressure are mental imo and I don't see coaching improving that too much. If QBs guys mind regresses under pressure to locking onto first read, not seeing the field and making mistakes then that's not some kind of mechanical issue that can be improved. That's my concern with Maye.
Where is this coming from?
Quote:
Maye's issues with how he responds to pressure are mental imo and I don't see coaching improving that too much. If QBs guys mind regresses under pressure to locking onto first read, not seeing the field and making mistakes then that's not some kind of mechanical issue that can be improved. That's my concern with Maye.
Where is this coming from?
Tape and his stats when pressured along with analysis from scouts.
Quote:
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
Hmm, not even close. Plus you have already shown your hand on what you think of JJM so anything else is just pushing the same narrative.. What if most teams have JJM much higher than the draft pundits? You are basing your whole premise around others seeing Williams, Maye and Daniels 1-2-3 ( any order) but that may not be true.
He just repeats whatever Bw says. Not worth debating with.
I think that is overplayed, too.
All of the big brands are winning programs. But it does seem like McCarthy gets extra credit for playing at Michigan...for some reason.
Maybe it's handling the pressure of the playoff/finals.
McCarthy deserves credit for the game-tying drive against Alabama in the semis. That was his big moment.
As for the final against UDub, McCarthy was basically a passenger. That game was won by the Michigan D and OL/running game. McCarthy's performance was about as non-descript as it can get for the QB in the NC game.
Quote:
I think that is overplayed, too.
All of the big brands are winning programs. But it does seem like McCarthy gets extra credit for playing at Michigan...for some reason.
Maybe it's handling the pressure of the playoff/finals.
McCarthy deserves credit for the game-tying drive against Alabama in the semis. That was his big moment.
As for the final against UDub, McCarthy was basically a passenger. That game was won by the Michigan D and OL/running game. McCarthy's performance was about as non-descript as it can get for the QB in the NC game.
That's undebatable, but making no mistakes and making a big 30 yard throw to seal the game in the closing minutes is all he had to do. Winning isn't about stats, as you know. It's about not making mistakes and making a big throw when you need to in key moments.
We both wish we could get Daniels. You and I have been his biggest proponents here since October. Nevertheless, I think you will be pleasantly surprised if JJM ends up being our QB of the future. And I was right there with you on the college game threads as a detractors not seeing it with McCarthy. I admittedly didn't key in on many of his games, but I followed along casually and kept track of the stats and ridiculed his few proponents here. That entire perspective changed once I studied him in depth, keying in on every play I could watching them over and over while looking at more advanced stats as well. QB is probably the most challenging position to analyze for prospects and that's part of the fun.
Winning in college doesn’t mean much. Doesn’t mean McCarthy won’t be a great pro. But it should not be much of a factor.
Tape and his stats when pressured along with analysis from scouts.
On third down - the money down - this year:
In 84 situations, Maye completed 60% of his passes, 8.6 YPA, 5 TDs/0 INTs. (Maye played 3 less games).
In 82 situations, McCarthy completed 67% of his passes, 9.1 YPA, 6 TDs/0 INTs.
On third down and 10+ this year:
Maye completed 65% of his passes, 9.8 YPA, 4 TDs/0 INTs.
McCarthy completed 77% of his passes, 10.1 YPA, 4 TDs/0 INTs.
I don't know, but to me it looks like Maye was pretty damn good on third down.
Winning in college doesn’t mean much. Doesn’t mean McCarthy won’t be a great pro. But it should not be much of a factor.
I agree and my analysis of him never factors in him winning. That isn't a relevant factor imo as well.
Quote:
Tape and his stats when pressured along with analysis from scouts.
On third down - the money down - this year:
In 84 situations, Maye completed 60% of his passes, 8.6 YPA, 5 TDs/0 INTs. (Maye played 3 less games).
In 82 situations, McCarthy completed 67% of his passes, 9.1 YPA, 6 TDs/0 INTs.
On third down and 10+ this year:
Maye completed 65% of his passes, 9.8 YPA, 4 TDs/0 INTs.
McCarthy completed 77% of his passes, 10.1 YPA, 4 TDs/0 INTs.
I don't know, but to me it looks like Maye was pretty damn good on third down.
Maye's 18.9% pressure go sack ratio is below average for cfb qbs, ypa 6.1 (lots of checkdowns) nfl passer rating of 66.3, 43.3% completion rate under pressure is not good along with 10% int per throw. That means 28.9% of the time under pressure Maye threw a pick or took a sack, he also had 7 fumbles lost of which I'm not sure how many came under pressure but you could safely say he had over a 30% turnover ratio per play under pressure.
JJM's big time throw rate under pressure is much higher than Maye by more than 50%, his completion percentage under pressure is 63.5%, ypa 9.5, nfl passer rating 111.3, below 3% int/attempt, 0 fumbles lost in '22/'23.
Quote:
Tape and his stats when pressured along with analysis from scouts.
On third down - the money down - this year:
In 84 situations, Maye completed 60% of his passes, 8.6 YPA, 5 TDs/0 INTs. (Maye played 3 less games).
In 82 situations, McCarthy completed 67% of his passes, 9.1 YPA, 6 TDs/0 INTs.
On third down and 10+ this year:
Maye completed 65% of his passes, 9.8 YPA, 4 TDs/0 INTs.
McCarthy completed 77% of his passes, 10.1 YPA, 4 TDs/0 INTs.
I don't know, but to me it looks like Maye was pretty damn good on third down.
And I wasn't talking about on 3rd down, which it still looks like JJM was better there too.
And has that winning resume.
Quote:
In comment 16450290 nygiantfan said:
Quote:
sound somewhat like what Daniel Jones supporters used to come up with. Defending him wholeheartedly in giving him a big contract in the face of only 15 passing TDs because DJ was who led them to the playoffs and a wildcard win.
Hmm, not even close. Plus you have already shown your hand on what you think of JJM so anything else is just pushing the same narrative.. What if most teams have JJM much higher than the draft pundits? You are basing your whole premise around others seeing Williams, Maye and Daniels 1-2-3 ( any order) but that may not be true.
He just repeats whatever Bw says. Not worth debating with.
Now you're going to make me cry. And I am all out of Kleenex despite all your previous comments reminding posters to get some.
It’s ok. We still accept you.
Good news. Bw has posted a lot today. Lot of stuff to plagiarize off of him. Just warning you, if you don’t be careful he might seek a PFA against you… lol
Quote:
"winning resume".
LMAO.
Debate JJM skills all you want but he lost 3 games in college and won a national championship. That’s a winning resume.
That's not what I'm laughing at.
It’s ok. We still accept you.
Not sure I really yearn for your acceptance.
But exactly who is the "we" that you are speaking for...both Dep026 and JT039 or some others as well?
Not unless "we" see you on your next one first.
Maye's 18.9% pressure go sack ratio is below average for cfb qbs, ypa 6.1 (lots of checkdowns) nfl passer rating of 66.3, 43.3% completion rate under pressure is not good along with 10% int per throw. That means 28.9% of the time under pressure Maye threw a pick or took a sack, he also had 7 fumbles lost of which I'm not sure how many came under pressure but you could safely say he had over a 30% turnover ratio per play under pressure.
JJM's big time throw rate under pressure is much higher than Maye by more than 50%, his completion percentage under pressure is 63.5%, ypa 9.5, nfl passer rating 111.3, below 3% int/attempt, 0 fumbles lost in '22/'23.
I've seen those stats cited before - thanks. Do you know the # of attempts for each? Are those numbers for Maye just 2023?
I'm not really sure how to interpret them because coaching matters, play design, players executing their assignments, quality of the D, etc.
I concede they don't look good for Maye, but I would need more context.
And I listed third down results because that is a critical down at all levels. McCarthy performed well, but so did Maye.
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Maye's 18.9% pressure go sack ratio is below average for cfb qbs, ypa 6.1 (lots of checkdowns) nfl passer rating of 66.3, 43.3% completion rate under pressure is not good along with 10% int per throw. That means 28.9% of the time under pressure Maye threw a pick or took a sack, he also had 7 fumbles lost of which I'm not sure how many came under pressure but you could safely say he had over a 30% turnover ratio per play under pressure.
JJM's big time throw rate under pressure is much higher than Maye by more than 50%, his completion percentage under pressure is 63.5%, ypa 9.5, nfl passer rating 111.3, below 3% int/attempt, 0 fumbles lost in '22/'23.
I've seen those stats cited before - thanks. Do you know the # of attempts for each? Are those numbers for Maye just 2023?
I'm not really sure how to interpret them because coaching matters, play design, players executing their assignments, quality of the D, etc.
I concede they don't look good for Maye, but I would need more context.
And I listed third down results because that is a critical down at all levels. McCarthy performed well, but so did Maye.
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
At the end of the day, I don't know how these results translate to future NFL success or failure. If Maye gets better coaching/offensive system/etc, this might just be a mirage at the college level.
I saw Maye roll out to his left last year at Pitt, switch to his left hand as he was getting drilled and throw a left-handed TD pass. I saw him throw a laser for TD off his back foot against the U under heavy pressure. I saw him roll right under heavy pressure against Duke and throw a winning TD pass.
That tells me the playmaking skills are there even under pressure. So, I am comfortable with what I saw. But, again, think your #s should be recognized...
I’m more than happy with either.
Quote:
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
At the end of the day, I don't know how these results translate to future NFL success or failure. If Maye gets better coaching/offensive system/etc, this might just be a mirage at the college level.
I saw Maye roll out to his left last year at Pitt, switch to his left hand as he was getting drilled and throw a left-handed TD pass. I saw him throw a laser for TD off his back foot against the U under heavy pressure. I saw him roll right under heavy pressure against Duke and throw a winning TD pass.
That tells me the playmaking skills are there even under pressure. So, I am comfortable with what I saw. But, again, think your #s should be recognized...
I agree that it would be related to offensive playcalls, mechanics or other factors like the severity of pressure being worse. I can't know for certain that the issue is due to a mental response. And if it is indeed not a mental issue then all those other factors can be refined and coached. I'd be happy with either of them, I still think you underrate JJM. I go back and forth between trading up to 3 to get their guy vs. Waiting to trade up to 4 for JJM/Maye. I think I ultimately prefer the latter as it would save a lot of draft capital (pick 6, 47 and future 1st+3rd vs. Pick 6 and 2025 2nd+3rd potentially).
Winning in college doesn’t mean much. Doesn’t mean McCarthy won’t be a great pro. But it should not be much of a factor.
Winning in the NFL doesn’t matter to you either though
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They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
At the end of the day, I don't know how these results translate to future NFL success or failure. If Maye gets better coaching/offensive system/etc, this might just be a mirage at the college level.
I saw Maye roll out to his left last year at Pitt, switch to his left hand as he was getting drilled and throw a left-handed TD pass. I saw him throw a laser for TD off his back foot against the U under heavy pressure. I saw him roll right under heavy pressure against Duke and throw a winning TD pass.
That tells me the playmaking skills are there even under pressure. So, I am comfortable with what I saw. But, again, think your #s should be recognized...
bw- imagine arguing with JerseyJoe. That’s what you’re doing.
He ruins every thread with his “imo” and posting ten thousand times.
“Reportedly”
For the love of the board Mods- figure it out. Its the same shit every draft season.
Get rid of him before be ruins Sy’s threads.
Quote:
In comment 16450441 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
At the end of the day, I don't know how these results translate to future NFL success or failure. If Maye gets better coaching/offensive system/etc, this might just be a mirage at the college level.
I saw Maye roll out to his left last year at Pitt, switch to his left hand as he was getting drilled and throw a left-handed TD pass. I saw him throw a laser for TD off his back foot against the U under heavy pressure. I saw him roll right under heavy pressure against Duke and throw a winning TD pass.
That tells me the playmaking skills are there even under pressure. So, I am comfortable with what I saw. But, again, think your #s should be recognized...
bw- imagine arguing with JerseyJoe. That’s what you’re doing.
He ruins every thread with his “imo” and posting ten thousand times.
“Reportedly”
For the love of the board Mods- figure it out. Its the same shit every draft season.
Get rid of him before be ruins Sy’s threads.
You want the mods to ban *thesd* kinds of posts? They're wholly innocuous to me.
bw- imagine arguing with JerseyJoe. That’s what you’re doing.
He ruins every thread with his “imo” and posting ten thousand times.
“Reportedly”
For the love of the board Mods- figure it out. Its the same shit every draft season.
Get rid of him before be ruins Sy’s threads.
This doesn't really bother me. It's a reasonable debate.
If things start to get sideways with a poster, I just ignore it and move on. Getting caught up in dupes/bans has never been my thing.
Brandon Walsh thinks I'm JerseyJoe and I trigger him, I ignore him now because he has repeatedly called me Jersey Joe and seems kind of obsessed. No big deal to me, I just don't feed the trolls. I appreciate that santacruz.
I'm just extremely excited for the draft doing as much research and studying as I can, I like to do that every year, but this is the biggest draft for us since '04 imo (you like that imo Brandon?)
Quote:
bw- imagine arguing with JerseyJoe. That’s what you’re doing.
He ruins every thread with his “imo” and posting ten thousand times.
“Reportedly”
For the love of the board Mods- figure it out. Its the same shit every draft season.
Get rid of him before be ruins Sy’s threads.
This doesn't really bother me. It's a reasonable debate.
If things start to get sideways with a poster, I just ignore it and move on. Getting caught up in dupes/bans has never been my thing.
Bw and I have had many friendly discussions and debates. We were the two big proponents of Jayden Daniels last year together before anyone believed in fact. I appreciate you bw.
Quote:
In comment 16450441 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
They are numbers for '23 and '22. I agree context matters, and that's why I go to the tape and opinions of pros on the matter. Maye has an apparent tendency to lock onto first reads like a life raft, check it down or make negative plays (sacks and turnovers) when under pressure. I do not think this is related to mechanics, if it was I would think it could be more coachable. I would still trade up to 4 for Maye if JJM when to DC or NE, but I definitely prefer JJM. If we had intel on where Penix was going and a plan to get to a spot to get him (likely around the Saints' pick 14) I would prefer Odunze or Nabers and a trade up using pick 47 and a 2025 1st for Penix vs a tradeup for Maye. I admit, that scenario is very far fetched by still possible imo.
At the end of the day, I don't know how these results translate to future NFL success or failure. If Maye gets better coaching/offensive system/etc, this might just be a mirage at the college level.
I saw Maye roll out to his left last year at Pitt, switch to his left hand as he was getting drilled and throw a left-handed TD pass. I saw him throw a laser for TD off his back foot against the U under heavy pressure. I saw him roll right under heavy pressure against Duke and throw a winning TD pass.
That tells me the playmaking skills are there even under pressure. So, I am comfortable with what I saw. But, again, think your #s should be recognized...
bw- imagine arguing with JerseyJoe. That’s what you’re doing.
He ruins every thread with his “imo” and posting ten thousand times.
“Reportedly”
For the love of the board Mods- figure it out. Its the same shit every draft season.
Get rid of him before be ruins Sy’s threads.
BTW, my former handles were Hakeem "The Dream" Nicks and Jerry "Championship" Reese. I've been here since about 05 and I honestly remember JerseyJoe's name but only because people mention it here like some kind of archetypal bad poster. He wasn't memorable to me, I guess.
Blessings to you though, Brandon. I'm sorry you're angry.