But if Pats project Vikes to suck worse than Gmen, that would more than offset the difference. But that’s as unlikely as New England trading the pick in the first place.
The Patriots would likely want a lot more from both teams. In addition to #6, #47, and our #1 next year, they'd probably also want players and our #2 next year. Minnesota might also offer their #3 from 2025, especially since they are projected to get two third round comp picks next year. But even adding that pick might not be enough for the Patriots.
I think Wolf would frankly be an idiot to accept either one of those trade proposals. He has a chance to get a franchise QB without having to trade up. Nobody knows where any team will be picking next year. First round picks from the Giants, Minnesota, and even the Patriots could all be outside the top 10. Packaging them all together might therefore not be enough to get up high enough to take whatever QB they want next year. Does he really want to become Minnesota next year, namely a team that is desperately trying to move up to get a QB? And all of this assumes he could find a trade partner.
Can you imagine how angry Patriots fans would be with him if he traded down instead of drafting a QB who became a franchise player? He would be fired, and rightfully so. It's not worth the risk.
The Patriots would likely want a lot more from both teams. In addition to #6, #47, and our #1 next year, they'd probably also want players and our #2 next year. Minnesota might also offer their #3 from 2025, especially since they are projected to get two third round comp picks next year. But even adding that pick might not be enough for the Patriots.
I think Wolf would frankly be an idiot to accept either one of those trade proposals. He has a chance to get a franchise QB without having to trade up. Nobody knows where any team will be picking next year. First round picks from the Giants, Minnesota, and even the Patriots could all be outside the top 10. Packaging them all together might therefore not be enough to get up high enough to take whatever QB they want next year. Does he really want to become Minnesota next year, namely a team that is desperately trying to move up to get a QB? And all of this assumes he could find a trade partner.
Can you imagine how angry Patriots fans would be with him if he traded down instead of drafting a QB who became a franchise player? He would be fired, and rightfully so. It's not worth the risk.
You're probably right and the Patriots stay put at 3. You have to think the next battleground for a QB with the Vikings then shifts to picks #4 and or #5, and that Schoen has at least prepared for offers there as the Vikings would, IF they still like whomever the 4th QB is left at that point.
offered for pick #4.
This draft class is very top-heavy in my opinion. I believe that the talent gap between the 6th and 11th picks is significant, so NE or Ari should consider selecting us instead of Minnesota.
The Patriots would likely want a lot more from both teams. In addition to #6, #47, and our #1 next year, they'd probably also want players and our #2 next year. Minnesota might also offer their #3 from 2025, especially since they are projected to get two third round comp picks next year. But even adding that pick might not be enough for the Patriots.
I think Wolf would frankly be an idiot to accept either one of those trade proposals. He has a chance to get a franchise QB without having to trade up. Nobody knows where any team will be picking next year. First round picks from the Giants, Minnesota, and even the Patriots could all be outside the top 10. Packaging them all together might therefore not be enough to get up high enough to take whatever QB they want next year. Does he really want to become Minnesota next year, namely a team that is desperately trying to move up to get a QB? And all of this assumes he could find a trade partner.
Can you imagine how angry Patriots fans would be with him if he traded down instead of drafting a QB who became a franchise player? He would be fired, and rightfully so. It's not worth the risk.
NO chance
The jets trade 3 2nds to go from 6 to 3. They can’t ask for
2 1sts
2 seconds
Plus players. That’s insane
6
47
2025 first
That’s more then enough maybe they throw in a 4 or 5
Think about it from their perspective. It’s more than a one year rebuild for them. They’re likely going to be bad again in 2024. But with this deal they either get still get their QB, but if they don’t, they get a stud WR and have their own high draft pick in 2025 plus ours to get QB next year. And say what you want about QBs next year but 1/2 the QBs people are drooling over weren’t on anyone’s radar as a top pick a year ago or even literally after the season ended. So someone will rise up AND what are you going to have, maybe 6 teams drafting QBs in the first round, so out of the market next year?
I’m not saying NE will take it, but if they don’t LOVE the guy who is there, it would be foolish to pass up.
which QB rated at what level. It is nearly impossible that all 4 QBs will be worth a top 6 pick. But possible for all of them that they are worth almost any cost. If NE does not think the QBs left can be a franchise QB then trade down. Who knows what any of the teams think at this point.
That’s why I have not missed a game in 50 years. Dude….i want to win and it was clear going into both those games that we were way out of the playoffs and needed draft position to get the QB
That’s why I have not missed a game in 50 years. Dude….i want to win and it was clear going into both those games that we were way out of the playoffs and needed draft position to get the QB
Then stop with the "meaningless win" crap. We don't watch games to see a loss. Never. And you don't either. So asking how anyone feels about the Philly or NE win is theatrics. As has been brought up countless times, a meaningless win vs Washington gave them Chase Young and the Giants got Aaron Thomas. You cannot predict how the f=draft turns out.
RE: Those who don’t think NE would consider are crazy
Think about it from their perspective. It’s more than a one year rebuild for them. They’re likely going to be bad again in 2024. But with this deal they either get still get their QB, but if they don’t, they get a stud WR and have their own high draft pick in 2025 plus ours to get QB next year. And say what you want about QBs next year but 1/2 the QBs people are drooling over weren’t on anyone’s radar as a top pick a year ago or even literally after the season ended. So someone will rise up AND what are you going to have, maybe 6 teams drafting QBs in the first round, so out of the market next year?
I’m not saying NE will take it, but if they don’t LOVE the guy who is there, it would be foolish to pass up.
True enough, except with the QB bust rate you don’t have to LOVE the guy. If it’s 50/50 you go for it. The same logic applies to Giants or others possibly trading up. How sold are they on QB3? Vikes on the other hand appear to be all in on drafting a QB, and not likely to wait until 11.
Follow the nba you’ll love tanking. Football isn’t a sport where you throw games. Coaches want to win players need to show good film. Roster turnover is tremendous. Guys needs job. It’s enough with the lose the games shit. It’s pathetic and shows you probably never played competitive sports. Great fan!
would anybody want to give up that much ? just sit back at 6 and take BPA, either QB or WR...McCarthy, Nabers, etc., I know some believe it's now or never for a QB, but I'm not one of them.
is what do they think of Nix? There was a report (awhile ago) that they had Nix as QB3. If that is true, they would likely trade with us, take Nix at 6 and have all that extra draft capital to work with.
I think a smaller package to Arizona makes the most sense. (If they have Maye and JJ rated close). Arizona probably wants one of these 3 WR. They could trade to 6 and still get their choice between at least 2 of the 3.
wasting 3 hours each Sunday watching their team and hoping they lose. What’s the cost benefit analysis on your wasted time?
Coming to a message board to ridicule fans of a team for wanting to win games is another interesting concept I haven’t quite wrapped my head around. I enjoyed the wins, and considering I have no voice or say or power in any of this I’m going to just sit back and see what happens.
There are not going to be four franchise quarterbacks taken in the first five or six picks. Two teams will be disappointed, and if they gave away the store to draft a bust, their already sad team will be set back by one to three years.
One of the quarterbacks believed to be gone by pick six will linger into mid-round and one not believed worth of the top half of round one will be taken there.
If our guys have a conviction not matched by two-thirds of the other teams, do you go ahead and trade up for him anyway, or do you consider it a warning that there is a high probability that the consensus is correct and you take whomever falls to you?
Patriots are not trading the 3rd pick. They need a QB as much as any team in the league. If anyone would move up I think 4 or 5 is the only possibility.
Coming to a message board to ridicule fans of a team for wanting to win games is another interesting concept I haven’t quite wrapped my head around. I enjoyed the wins, and considering I have no voice or say or power in any of this I’m going to just sit back and see what happens.
I'm perfectly comfortable ridiculing people who express belief in hocus pocus. If fans want to win no matter the circumstance, that's at least logical. But the magical stuff deserves a hardy laugh.
My view is the regular season is played to decide the teams eligible for the tournament. Once the result of the regular season has no bearing on the team's eligibility or rank in the tournament, I think those games are more akin to the pre season.
I'd prefer those games be used to evaluate the depth, and help players who otherwise wouldn't, get material experience. That's a real investment in the future.
Coming to a message board to ridicule fans of a team for wanting to win games is another interesting concept I haven’t quite wrapped my head around. I enjoyed the wins, and considering I have no voice or say or power in any of this I’m going to just sit back and see what happens.
I'm perfectly comfortable ridiculing people who express belief in hocus pocus. If fans want to win no matter the circumstance, that's at least logical. But the magical stuff deserves a hardy laugh.
My view is the regular season is played to decide the teams eligible for the tournament. Once the result of the regular season has no bearing on the team's eligibility or rank in the tournament, I think those games are more akin to the pre season.
I'd prefer those games be used to evaluate the depth, and help players who otherwise wouldn't, get material experience. That's a real investment in the future.
Are you under the impression that if you sit there on Sundays and root for losses that’ll have any effect whatsoever on the game? I hate to break it to you, how you sit there on your couch and taking in a game has ZERO influence on the game. As far as the “evaluate the depth” thing, who exactly did the Giants miss out on evaluating? The team was ravaged with injuries and had the 2nd youngest starting roster in the NFL with only the Packers being younger. They were playing Tommy DeVito and Tyrod Taylor for crying out loud. The teams picking ahead of the Giants didn’t tank, either. They just sucked and/or had massive injuries (Chargers). Not one of them pulled all of their best players off the field for several weeks in search of a better pick. Yet somehow Giants fans insist they should have benched everyone starting week 10 and brought in a bunch of street free agents to play the last 7 games.
You guys living in fantasy world from your couches don’t seem to have a grasp on reality
Value + Need and they had one of the better defenses in the league last year.
Their roster is terrible. Completely devoid of OL, DL, playmakers. They need to build up a roster in bad way. It’s going to take 2-3 years at least. Their defense was largely an architectural prototype run by Belichick. He’s gone and whatever his warts on personnel he ran that defense. The new coaching staff looks worse.
Patriots remind me of Giants back in the 2018-2019. They’re in for years of pain.
Tell me who we would pick at #3 and I will tell you who wins
Are you under the impression that if you sit there on Sundays and root for losses that’ll have any effect whatsoever on the game? I hate to break it to you, how you sit there on your couch and taking in a game has ZERO influence on the game. As far as the “evaluate the depth” thing, who exactly did the Giants miss out on evaluating? The team was ravaged with injuries and had the 2nd youngest starting roster in the NFL with only the Packers being younger. They were playing Tommy DeVito and Tyrod Taylor for crying out loud. The teams picking ahead of the Giants didn’t tank, either. They just sucked and/or had massive injuries (Chargers). Not one of them pulled all of their best players off the field for several weeks in search of a better pick. Yet somehow Giants fans insist they should have benched everyone starting week 10 and brought in a bunch of street free agents to play the last 7 games.
You guys living in fantasy world from your couches don’t seem to have a grasp on reality
I have no idea WTF you are talking about. Did you miss the part where I get a hardy laugh at magical thinking?
The Giants were eliminated with 2 games left in the season. At that point I would have preferred they go back to DeVito for example.
Would that have given them less a chance of winning those games? Possibly. But he projected to have a better chance to be a Giant in 2024 (which turned out to be true), and that would have been a much better investment than Taylor racking up a meaningless win in his last game on the team.
I don’t know what hocus pocus you are referring to but fans rooting for wins isn’t it. Coming into a thread and asking a board of giants fans how those wins feel more closely aligned with hocus pocus since none of us had anything to do with the result on the field.
In sum, those wins were fun and now I’ll see what happens.
I have no opinion on how others spend or enjoy their time.
I think this magical litmus test of fandom based on whether I was hoping they won or lost is weird and deserves open repeated mocking. Maybe someone can bring a dowsing stick over to my place and see if I have sufficient fandom inside me.
Personally, I think the team should treat meaningless games like exhibitions. There's more upside in evaluating the depth and younger players.
I found that Philly game about as exhilarating as a Giants Jets pre season game in August.
If that game brought riveting joy to some fans, good for you.
the Giants offer is the better one. If NE is willing to trade their pick I think they may get a better offer than the ones you posted. Competition is a good thing for NE.
Giants played out the season the right way. One of the beats also reported players were not happy Taylor was not starting.
Given a choice of realistic trade packages from the New York Giants, Minnesota Vikings and Denver Broncos, Arizona Cardinals fans at SB Nation’s Revenge of the Birds chose the package from the Vikings in exchange for the fourth overall pick in the 2024 NFL Draft.
you can root however you want. My issue is threads and posts dedicated to telling people how they should or mocking them afterwards like their the ones responsible for us picking 6th. Not sure what else to tell you, seems like you just want to argue.
you can root however you want. My issue is threads and posts dedicated to telling people how they should or mocking them afterwards like their the ones responsible for us picking 6th. Not sure what else to tell you, seems like you just want to argue.
Yeah, your way of ridiculing fans is so much better.
Their defense was 7th best in yards allowed, 4th best in rushing yards allowed. Not sure what more you want from a defense.
No defensive playmakers - Barmore, Judon, Gonzalez.
What Patriot team were you watching last season?
The one that finished as the second worst team in all of football and the worst Pats team in roughly 30 some odd years. They have no impact or threat playmakers on offense whatsoever and their defensive front is very very thin. They have probably the bottom three worst OL in football even with Onwenu back. You do understand you need more than a couple capable talents on both sides of ball right?
I indicated the defense was quite good under Belichick. He’s gone now. His ability to make a defense bend and hold was superb given the talent deficits. Expecting them to match that under Mayo and a new staff is not going to happen. Judon will be fading soon and full expectation is he will be traded by October, and Gonzalez by the way missed over half the season.
you can root however you want. My issue is threads and posts dedicated to telling people how they should or mocking them afterwards like their the ones responsible for us picking 6th. Not sure what else to tell you, seems like you just want to argue.
I don't feel like I'm arguing with anyone.
We seem to have a similar view -- we both aren't in favor of posters and threads telling others how they should root and making value judgements based on that.
I don't think I've ever ridiculed a fan for wanting the team to win.
I simply believe there are logical reasons to treat meaningless games like an exhibition, and I have no problem poking fun at those who believe there's a litmus test on fandom.
against the Commanders and Pats weren’t enjoyable whatsoever.
Not because people rooted for them to lose but because they were disgusting displays of ugly conservative football by diminished and untalented teams and showed how far both teams are from being significantly better.
The Giants have played so many horrendous disgusting games over the last 10 years fans too quickly forget what competent exciting football can look like and what sustainable winning means.
Hurts look like shit, Sirianni get embarrassed and their defense continue to get clowned on was absolutely worth it. not to freaking mention a loss wouldn't have mattered in that particular game because it required a Chargers loss which did not happen. And they weren't tanking, neither.
The Patriots would likely want a lot more from both teams. In addition to #6, #47, and our #1 next year, they'd probably also want players and our #2 next year. Minnesota might also offer their #3 from 2025, especially since they are projected to get two third round comp picks next year. But even adding that pick might not be enough for the Patriots.
I think Wolf would frankly be an idiot to accept either one of those trade proposals. He has a chance to get a franchise QB without having to trade up. Nobody knows where any team will be picking next year. First round picks from the Giants, Minnesota, and even the Patriots could all be outside the top 10. Packaging them all together might therefore not be enough to get up high enough to take whatever QB they want next year. Does he really want to become Minnesota next year, namely a team that is desperately trying to move up to get a QB? And all of this assumes he could find a trade partner.
Can you imagine how angry Patriots fans would be with him if he traded down instead of drafting a QB who became a franchise player? He would be fired, and rightfully so. It's not worth the risk.
NO chance
The jets trade 3 2nds to go from 6 to 3. They can’t ask for
2 1sts
2 seconds
Plus players. That’s insane
6
47
2025 first
That’s more then enough maybe they throw in a 4 or 5
Don't agree. They can ask for whatever they want. They are also a bad team, with a first time GM who has a chance to pick a QB in what many people believe is one of the best classes in years. Many are also already speculating that next year's QB class won't be nearly as good. That seems premature to me, but it is what is being assumed by many people, at least right now.
defense that finished tops in the stats. isn't that good. smh
they lost games because once the defense did their job, offense was not able to do anything.
Gonzalez was injured. it's the NFL players get hurt.
but, believe what you want.
Players who get hurt and miss most of the season especially in their rookie year can’t be called “playmaker”.
They were an awful awful football team. You can’t just dismiss how bad their record was. Their defense played well for good chunk of year and didn’t quit in games which I’ve now iterated twice but it also wasn’t challenged half the game once opposing teams got the lead. Teams knew it was game over and stopped throwing the ball and went into manage the clock offense. I’ll be kind and assume you just aren’t reading the posts fully.
I'm not sure how the NYG with 2 firsts and a shitty 2nd is better than 3 #1s from the Vikings.
According to the "chart" the Giants' offer has more value.
That doesn't mean it would automatically be the package that the Pats prefer, but I just don't think you're properly evaluating both offers.
All first round draft choices are not created equal. If the Pats traded down to 6 they could still draft either the 4th best QB, the 2nd or 3rd best WR or one of the top 2 OTs. At pick 11 the Pats would have (at most) only one of those players available.
Do the Pats want to make sure they still get to choose one of the top 6 players in the draft (plus the 47th best player) or do they prefer to have two middle of the first RD picks?
I'm not sure how the NYG with 2 firsts and a shitty 2nd is better than 3 #1s from the Vikings.
According to the "chart" the Giants' offer has more value.
That doesn't mean it would automatically be the package that the Pats prefer, but I just don't think you're properly evaluating both offers.
All first round draft choices are not created equal. If the Pats traded down to 6 they could still draft either the 4th best QB, the 2nd or 3rd best WR or one of the top 2 OTs. At pick 11 the Pats would have (at most) only one of those players available.
Do the Pats want to make sure they still get to choose one of the top 6 players in the draft (plus the 47th best player) or do they prefer to have two middle of the first RD picks?
I get it. I understand if the Pats prefer the best overall pick in the deal, but to say it's not close just seems like a dumb hot take
32-team monopoly, collectively making Dr. Evil-type $$$ hand over fist regardless of who wins the Super Bowl.
It's fan fodder to expect teams to try to lose. There's the obvious: the people directly involved in winning/losing (coaches & players) have their individual resumes to worry about, and are trying to put food on the table and avoid uprooting their families. But equally as important, as a corporation, the #1 priority for the NFL is integrity of the game. The last thing they need is every team that doesn't have Patrick Mahomes tanking. League over. All the teams know it. You gotta put your best possible team on the field every year or cash cow's over.
The fans that expect teams to intentionally lose are lost.
Coming to a message board to ridicule fans of a team for wanting to win games is another interesting concept I haven’t quite wrapped my head around. I enjoyed the wins, and considering I have no voice or say or power in any of this I’m going to just sit back and see what happens.
I'm perfectly comfortable ridiculing people who express belief in hocus pocus. If fans want to win no matter the circumstance, that's at least logical. But the magical stuff deserves a hardy laugh.
My view is the regular season is played to decide the teams eligible for the tournament. Once the result of the regular season has no bearing on the team's eligibility or rank in the tournament, I think those games are more akin to the pre season.
I'd prefer those games be used to evaluate the depth, and help players who otherwise wouldn't, get material experience. That's a real investment in the future.
Well said Christian and I agree 100%. Play the people who are here long term rather than the guy on the last year of his contract. Get the kids reps when you are out of the playoffs.
I think Wolf would frankly be an idiot to accept either one of those trade proposals. He has a chance to get a franchise QB without having to trade up. Nobody knows where any team will be picking next year. First round picks from the Giants, Minnesota, and even the Patriots could all be outside the top 10. Packaging them all together might therefore not be enough to get up high enough to take whatever QB they want next year. Does he really want to become Minnesota next year, namely a team that is desperately trying to move up to get a QB? And all of this assumes he could find a trade partner.
Can you imagine how angry Patriots fans would be with him if he traded down instead of drafting a QB who became a franchise player? He would be fired, and rightfully so. It's not worth the risk.
I think Wolf would frankly be an idiot to accept either one of those trade proposals. He has a chance to get a franchise QB without having to trade up. Nobody knows where any team will be picking next year. First round picks from the Giants, Minnesota, and even the Patriots could all be outside the top 10. Packaging them all together might therefore not be enough to get up high enough to take whatever QB they want next year. Does he really want to become Minnesota next year, namely a team that is desperately trying to move up to get a QB? And all of this assumes he could find a trade partner.
Can you imagine how angry Patriots fans would be with him if he traded down instead of drafting a QB who became a franchise player? He would be fired, and rightfully so. It's not worth the risk.
You're probably right and the Patriots stay put at 3. You have to think the next battleground for a QB with the Vikings then shifts to picks #4 and or #5, and that Schoen has at least prepared for offers there as the Vikings would, IF they still like whomever the 4th QB is left at that point.
This draft class is very top-heavy in my opinion. I believe that the talent gap between the 6th and 11th picks is significant, so NE or Ari should consider selecting us instead of Minnesota.
Ie. Carolina panthers.
I think Wolf would frankly be an idiot to accept either one of those trade proposals. He has a chance to get a franchise QB without having to trade up. Nobody knows where any team will be picking next year. First round picks from the Giants, Minnesota, and even the Patriots could all be outside the top 10. Packaging them all together might therefore not be enough to get up high enough to take whatever QB they want next year. Does he really want to become Minnesota next year, namely a team that is desperately trying to move up to get a QB? And all of this assumes he could find a trade partner.
Can you imagine how angry Patriots fans would be with him if he traded down instead of drafting a QB who became a franchise player? He would be fired, and rightfully so. It's not worth the risk.
NO chance
The jets trade 3 2nds to go from 6 to 3. They can’t ask for
2 1sts
2 seconds
Plus players. That’s insane
6
47
2025 first
That’s more then enough maybe they throw in a 4 or 5
I’m not saying NE will take it, but if they don’t LOVE the guy who is there, it would be foolish to pass up.
Honestly, the one against Philly? Yes. It added to their decline. NE, not so much.
If you are not, then you probably aren't a fan.
Then stop with the "meaningless win" crap. We don't watch games to see a loss. Never. And you don't either. So asking how anyone feels about the Philly or NE win is theatrics. As has been brought up countless times, a meaningless win vs Washington gave them Chase Young and the Giants got Aaron Thomas. You cannot predict how the f=draft turns out.
I’m not saying NE will take it, but if they don’t LOVE the guy who is there, it would be foolish to pass up.
True enough, except with the QB bust rate you don’t have to LOVE the guy. If it’s 50/50 you go for it. The same logic applies to Giants or others possibly trading up. How sold are they on QB3? Vikes on the other hand appear to be all in on drafting a QB, and not likely to wait until 11.
I think a smaller package to Arizona makes the most sense. (If they have Maye and JJ rated close). Arizona probably wants one of these 3 WR. They could trade to 6 and still get their choice between at least 2 of the 3.
I'm confident those wins and the character building carryover to 2024.
I look forward to how the strong showing in that Eagles win benefits Tyrod Taylor, Saquon Barkley, and Xavier McKinney in their quests for greatness.
Coming to a message board to ridicule fans of a team for wanting to win games is another interesting concept I haven’t quite wrapped my head around. I enjoyed the wins, and considering I have no voice or say or power in any of this I’m going to just sit back and see what happens.
One of the quarterbacks believed to be gone by pick six will linger into mid-round and one not believed worth of the top half of round one will be taken there.
If our guys have a conviction not matched by two-thirds of the other teams, do you go ahead and trade up for him anyway, or do you consider it a warning that there is a high probability that the consensus is correct and you take whomever falls to you?
I'm perfectly comfortable ridiculing people who express belief in hocus pocus. If fans want to win no matter the circumstance, that's at least logical. But the magical stuff deserves a hardy laugh.
My view is the regular season is played to decide the teams eligible for the tournament. Once the result of the regular season has no bearing on the team's eligibility or rank in the tournament, I think those games are more akin to the pre season.
I'd prefer those games be used to evaluate the depth, and help players who otherwise wouldn't, get material experience. That's a real investment in the future.
Quote:
Coming to a message board to ridicule fans of a team for wanting to win games is another interesting concept I haven’t quite wrapped my head around. I enjoyed the wins, and considering I have no voice or say or power in any of this I’m going to just sit back and see what happens.
I'm perfectly comfortable ridiculing people who express belief in hocus pocus. If fans want to win no matter the circumstance, that's at least logical. But the magical stuff deserves a hardy laugh.
My view is the regular season is played to decide the teams eligible for the tournament. Once the result of the regular season has no bearing on the team's eligibility or rank in the tournament, I think those games are more akin to the pre season.
I'd prefer those games be used to evaluate the depth, and help players who otherwise wouldn't, get material experience. That's a real investment in the future.
Are you under the impression that if you sit there on Sundays and root for losses that’ll have any effect whatsoever on the game? I hate to break it to you, how you sit there on your couch and taking in a game has ZERO influence on the game. As far as the “evaluate the depth” thing, who exactly did the Giants miss out on evaluating? The team was ravaged with injuries and had the 2nd youngest starting roster in the NFL with only the Packers being younger. They were playing Tommy DeVito and Tyrod Taylor for crying out loud. The teams picking ahead of the Giants didn’t tank, either. They just sucked and/or had massive injuries (Chargers). Not one of them pulled all of their best players off the field for several weeks in search of a better pick. Yet somehow Giants fans insist they should have benched everyone starting week 10 and brought in a bunch of street free agents to play the last 7 games.
You guys living in fantasy world from your couches don’t seem to have a grasp on reality
Their roster is terrible. Completely devoid of OL, DL, playmakers. They need to build up a roster in bad way. It’s going to take 2-3 years at least. Their defense was largely an architectural prototype run by Belichick. He’s gone and whatever his warts on personnel he ran that defense. The new coaching staff looks worse.
Patriots remind me of Giants back in the 2018-2019. They’re in for years of pain.
You guys living in fantasy world from your couches don’t seem to have a grasp on reality
I have no idea WTF you are talking about. Did you miss the part where I get a hardy laugh at magical thinking?
The Giants were eliminated with 2 games left in the season. At that point I would have preferred they go back to DeVito for example.
Would that have given them less a chance of winning those games? Possibly. But he projected to have a better chance to be a Giant in 2024 (which turned out to be true), and that would have been a much better investment than Taylor racking up a meaningless win in his last game on the team.
In sum, those wins were fun and now I’ll see what happens.
No defensive playmakers - Barmore, Judon, Gonzalez.
What Patriot team were you watching last season?
I think this magical litmus test of fandom based on whether I was hoping they won or lost is weird and deserves open repeated mocking. Maybe someone can bring a dowsing stick over to my place and see if I have sufficient fandom inside me.
Personally, I think the team should treat meaningless games like exhibitions. There's more upside in evaluating the depth and younger players.
I found that Philly game about as exhilarating as a Giants Jets pre season game in August.
If that game brought riveting joy to some fans, good for you.
Giants played out the season the right way. One of the beats also reported players were not happy Taylor was not starting.
A crappy leader punts games imv.
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah, your way of ridiculing fans is so much better.
No defensive playmakers - Barmore, Judon, Gonzalez.
What Patriot team were you watching last season?
The one that finished as the second worst team in all of football and the worst Pats team in roughly 30 some odd years. They have no impact or threat playmakers on offense whatsoever and their defensive front is very very thin. They have probably the bottom three worst OL in football even with Onwenu back. You do understand you need more than a couple capable talents on both sides of ball right?
I indicated the defense was quite good under Belichick. He’s gone now. His ability to make a defense bend and hold was superb given the talent deficits. Expecting them to match that under Mayo and a new staff is not going to happen. Judon will be fading soon and full expectation is he will be traded by October, and Gonzalez by the way missed over half the season.
Any scenario that involves giving up #1 or #2, but especially both in 2025 - the Giants lose.
I don't feel like I'm arguing with anyone.
We seem to have a similar view -- we both aren't in favor of posters and threads telling others how they should root and making value judgements based on that.
I don't think I've ever ridiculed a fan for wanting the team to win.
I simply believe there are logical reasons to treat meaningless games like an exhibition, and I have no problem poking fun at those who believe there's a litmus test on fandom.
Not because people rooted for them to lose but because they were disgusting displays of ugly conservative football by diminished and untalented teams and showed how far both teams are from being significantly better.
The Giants have played so many horrendous disgusting games over the last 10 years fans too quickly forget what competent exciting football can look like and what sustainable winning means.
they lost games because once the defense did their job, offense was not able to do anything.
Gonzalez was injured. it's the NFL players get hurt.
but, believe what you want.
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The Patriots would likely want a lot more from both teams. In addition to #6, #47, and our #1 next year, they'd probably also want players and our #2 next year. Minnesota might also offer their #3 from 2025, especially since they are projected to get two third round comp picks next year. But even adding that pick might not be enough for the Patriots.
I think Wolf would frankly be an idiot to accept either one of those trade proposals. He has a chance to get a franchise QB without having to trade up. Nobody knows where any team will be picking next year. First round picks from the Giants, Minnesota, and even the Patriots could all be outside the top 10. Packaging them all together might therefore not be enough to get up high enough to take whatever QB they want next year. Does he really want to become Minnesota next year, namely a team that is desperately trying to move up to get a QB? And all of this assumes he could find a trade partner.
Can you imagine how angry Patriots fans would be with him if he traded down instead of drafting a QB who became a franchise player? He would be fired, and rightfully so. It's not worth the risk.
NO chance
The jets trade 3 2nds to go from 6 to 3. They can’t ask for
2 1sts
2 seconds
Plus players. That’s insane
6
47
2025 first
That’s more then enough maybe they throw in a 4 or 5
Don't agree. They can ask for whatever they want. They are also a bad team, with a first time GM who has a chance to pick a QB in what many people believe is one of the best classes in years. Many are also already speculating that next year's QB class won't be nearly as good. That seems premature to me, but it is what is being assumed by many people, at least right now.
If you're talking about a lack of offensive playmakers, wouldn't a franchise QB be used to address that?
I'm not sure how the NYG with 2 firsts and a shitty 2nd is better than 3 #1s from the Vikings.
they lost games because once the defense did their job, offense was not able to do anything.
Gonzalez was injured. it's the NFL players get hurt.
but, believe what you want.
Players who get hurt and miss most of the season especially in their rookie year can’t be called “playmaker”.
They were an awful awful football team. You can’t just dismiss how bad their record was. Their defense played well for good chunk of year and didn’t quit in games which I’ve now iterated twice but it also wasn’t challenged half the game once opposing teams got the lead. Teams knew it was game over and stopped throwing the ball and went into manage the clock offense. I’ll be kind and assume you just aren’t reading the posts fully.
OTC - ( New Window )
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And it’s not remotely close.
I'm not sure how the NYG with 2 firsts and a shitty 2nd is better than 3 #1s from the Vikings.
According to the "chart" the Giants' offer has more value.
That doesn't mean it would automatically be the package that the Pats prefer, but I just don't think you're properly evaluating both offers.
All first round draft choices are not created equal. If the Pats traded down to 6 they could still draft either the 4th best QB, the 2nd or 3rd best WR or one of the top 2 OTs. At pick 11 the Pats would have (at most) only one of those players available.
Do the Pats want to make sure they still get to choose one of the top 6 players in the draft (plus the 47th best player) or do they prefer to have two middle of the first RD picks?
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In comment 16450723 crooza172 said:
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And it’s not remotely close.
I'm not sure how the NYG with 2 firsts and a shitty 2nd is better than 3 #1s from the Vikings.
According to the "chart" the Giants' offer has more value.
That doesn't mean it would automatically be the package that the Pats prefer, but I just don't think you're properly evaluating both offers.
All first round draft choices are not created equal. If the Pats traded down to 6 they could still draft either the 4th best QB, the 2nd or 3rd best WR or one of the top 2 OTs. At pick 11 the Pats would have (at most) only one of those players available.
Do the Pats want to make sure they still get to choose one of the top 6 players in the draft (plus the 47th best player) or do they prefer to have two middle of the first RD picks?
I get it. I understand if the Pats prefer the best overall pick in the deal, but to say it's not close just seems like a dumb hot take
32-team monopoly, collectively making Dr. Evil-type $$$ hand over fist regardless of who wins the Super Bowl.
It's fan fodder to expect teams to try to lose. There's the obvious: the people directly involved in winning/losing (coaches & players) have their individual resumes to worry about, and are trying to put food on the table and avoid uprooting their families. But equally as important, as a corporation, the #1 priority for the NFL is integrity of the game. The last thing they need is every team that doesn't have Patrick Mahomes tanking. League over. All the teams know it. You gotta put your best possible team on the field every year or cash cow's over.
The fans that expect teams to intentionally lose are lost.
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Coming to a message board to ridicule fans of a team for wanting to win games is another interesting concept I haven’t quite wrapped my head around. I enjoyed the wins, and considering I have no voice or say or power in any of this I’m going to just sit back and see what happens.
I'm perfectly comfortable ridiculing people who express belief in hocus pocus. If fans want to win no matter the circumstance, that's at least logical. But the magical stuff deserves a hardy laugh.
My view is the regular season is played to decide the teams eligible for the tournament. Once the result of the regular season has no bearing on the team's eligibility or rank in the tournament, I think those games are more akin to the pre season.
I'd prefer those games be used to evaluate the depth, and help players who otherwise wouldn't, get material experience. That's a real investment in the future.
Well said Christian and I agree 100%. Play the people who are here long term rather than the guy on the last year of his contract. Get the kids reps when you are out of the playoffs.