A good friend is plugged into the Vikings organization and has given me info over the last 10 years and has usually been spot on.
Last night he told me that the Vikings were trading into the top 5 as we all expect, and they are targeting Drake Maye.
What was more interesting is that if Maye is gone, they will pivot to Pennix in the top 5.
Take it for what it's worth.
I love that you called your friend an asshat, lol
They can take Pennix at 11 though without giving up a thing.
Would you take him at 6?
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That Penix workout was manna from heaven for the Giants.
Would you take him at 6?
Fuck yes.
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That Penix workout was manna from heaven for the Giants.
Would you take him at 6?
I don't know how you can be happy taking McCarthy or Maye at 6 but not Penix (assuming you're confident he's healthy).
I thought that was the big takeaway from the workout - Penix is healthy enough to be an explosive athlete.
He's a better passer than both McCarthy and Maye.
It’s been kind accepted they want to trade into the top 5. I expect the Giants may as well.
If he's their best option (for QB) at 6, go for it! Can't hit a home run without getting up to bat and taking your swings.
If he doesn't work out, you should know within a couple of years, then you take another shot. We ain't winning squat with the current QB room (and I think Schoen and Daboll know this).
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In comment 16451179 Go Terps said:
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That Penix workout was manna from heaven for the Giants.
Would you take him at 6?
I don't know how you can be happy taking McCarthy or Maye at 6 but not Penix (assuming you're confident he's healthy).
I thought that was the big takeaway from the workout - Penix is healthy enough to be an explosive athlete.
He's a better passer than both McCarthy and Maye.
With a worse injury past.
I could see San Diego accumulating picks and accepting a deal from Minnesota for the 11th and 23rd overall picks in the 1st round. Arizona has something like 13 picks already in this year's draft. They need quality over quantity. The Chargers might be more open to accumulating some picks, but not without dipping down too much. 11 would be just right for the Chargers and Harbaugh. They can pick a RT (they have Slater at OLT). Then can then take a WR at 23.
Arizona trading down with the Giants from 4 to 6 would be possible only if Arizona isn't soley fixated on MHJr. If they don't mind taking Nabers or Odunze at 6 instead of MHJr at 4, then we're talking turkey. It all depends on that with them. We know there's a relationship between Ossenfort in the Arizona front office and Cowden in the NYG's front office already from their days in Tennessee.
Maybe with a trade down.
Can't get here soon enough.
Disagree. Penix was strong targeting Odunze, a solid X. Well, Minny has Jefferson, who can play X as well as Z. Penix has proven he can feed a stud receiver downfield.
Exactly this.
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Penix doesn't seem like an ideal fit for what the Vikings like to do on offense.
Disagree. Penix was strong targeting Odunze, a solid X. Well, Minny has Jefferson, who can play X as well as Z. Penix has proven he can feed a stud receiver downfield.
The Vikings are a heavy intermediate crossing team. The bulk of there passing game is over the middle. Not the strength of Penix who likes to throw to the outside receivers.
The idea is to move to 3 for Maye (if he's there), or then to 5 for Pennix.
The questions i have, albeit from a guy typing on his couch right now....was his in-pocket maneuvering, seemed to me that off platform or sliding away from/feeling pressure was not his strong suit. Didn't look like an "athlete" in the pocket to me. But again, I'm far from a scout.
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In comment 16451185 Eric from BBI said:
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Penix doesn't seem like an ideal fit for what the Vikings like to do on offense.
Disagree. Penix was strong targeting Odunze, a solid X. Well, Minny has Jefferson, who can play X as well as Z. Penix has proven he can feed a stud receiver downfield.
The Vikings are a heavy intermediate crossing team. The bulk of there passing game is over the middle. Not the strength of Penix who likes to throw to the outside receivers.
I think KOC was catering to Cousins' strengths a bit. But targeting and relying on a big X is something Cousins and Penix share. There is a lot of faith in Minny that KOC can and will develop a QB successfully and with intention. I always felt Penix was a great fit for the Vikings. And you can be certain if they select Penix, KOC will be aware of his abilities and how he will fit into the offense he wants to run.
The questions i have, albeit from a guy typing on his couch right now....was his in-pocket maneuvering, seemed to me that off platform or sliding away from/feeling pressure was not his strong suit. Didn't look like an "athlete" in the pocket to me. But again, I'm far from a scout.
He was very athletic prior to the two ACLs.
Agree, I can't see NE moving to 11.
if this turns into a 5 qb top 10...wow.
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In comment 16451185 Eric from BBI said:
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Penix doesn't seem like an ideal fit for what the Vikings like to do on offense.
Disagree. Penix was strong targeting Odunze, a solid X. Well, Minny has Jefferson, who can play X as well as Z. Penix has proven he can feed a stud receiver downfield.
The Vikings are a heavy intermediate crossing team. The bulk of there passing game is over the middle. Not the strength of Penix who likes to throw to the outside receivers.
Exactly.
I'll take that prognosis over a 24 year old with shoulder and knee injuries.
Oct 20, 2018 Non-NFL Knee ACL Tear Grade 3
Nov 28, 2020 Non-NFL Knee ACL Tear Grade 3
Nov 2, 2019 Non-NFL Shoulder Clavicle Fracture
Oct 2, 2021 Non-NFL Shoulder A/C Joint Separation
The Giants would be inviting future disaster.
this is Cousins 2022 (to get full year numbers)
I still think NE will "stick and pick" and take a QB at #3, or would want a "king's ransom" to move to #6, something a lot more than #6, #47, and our #1 next year.
I would be really surprised if the Vikings traded multiple picks to move up for Penix.
at least they end up with MHJ or whoever the best position player is. who knows may even be able to trade that pick for a big return like arizona did last year w/ will anderson.
Hello Marvin Harrison Jr.
this is Cousins 2022 (to get full year numbers)
See my other thread about Albright talking to NFL execs before the championship game. They said Penix isn't really adept at throwing over the middle. Michigan then dared Penix to beat them throwing there and he couldn't.
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he seemed to use the middle of the field plenty.
this is Cousins 2022 (to get full year numbers)
See my other thread about Albright talking to NFL execs before the championship game. They said Penix isn't really adept at throwing over the middle. Michigan then dared Penix to beat them throwing there and he couldn't.
imo Penix has the biggest adjustment of all 5 qbs to the NFL, which is ironic because i think he is the oldest. Michigan exposed him in a few ways but in his defense it was the first time he was getting that kind of test outside the p12. that is going to be his experience every week in the nfl, and it's possible he has worse receivers around him than odunze, polk, mcmillan.
he has arm talent and athleticism but he has a steep adjustment bc he's not a natural runner so he is going to have to become a really high end processor or else his arm talent wont matter.
I hope I’m wrong, but I have a sinking feeling that Jones, Lock, & DeVito might be the QB room this fall. I pray to God I’m wrong.
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looking athletic in a 40, high jump etc is great for him but I think is somewhat masking things
The questions i have, albeit from a guy typing on his couch right now....was his in-pocket maneuvering, seemed to me that off platform or sliding away from/feeling pressure was not his strong suit. Didn't look like an "athlete" in the pocket to me. But again, I'm far from a scout.
He was very athletic prior to the two ACLs.
Right, but he did in fact have those two ACLs lol. Again this is me looking at limited "film" as a novice.
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Cannot get here soon enough. I don’t see Arizona or San Diego moving out of the top 10.
I could see San Diego accumulating picks and accepting a deal from Minnesota for the 11th and 23rd overall picks in the 1st round. Arizona has something like 13 picks already in this year's draft. They need quality over quantity. The Chargers might be more open to accumulating some picks, but not without dipping down too much. 11 would be just right for the Chargers and Harbaugh. They can pick a RT (they have Slater at OLT). Then can then take a WR at 23.
Arizona trading down with the Giants from 4 to 6 would be possible only if Arizona isn't soley fixated on MHJr. If they don't mind taking Nabers or Odunze at 6 instead of MHJr at 4, then we're talking turkey. It all depends on that with them. We know there's a relationship between Ossenfort in the Arizona front office and Cowden in the NYG's front office already from their days in Tennessee.
We could Also do the old double tradeup with LAC then AZ so they both get their top targets and an extra pick each
Can't get here soon enough.
26 days and 5hrs 22 minutes;)
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
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In comment 16451179 Go Terps said:
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That Penix workout was manna from heaven for the Giants.
Would you take him at 6?
Fuck yes.
Hell no!!
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
Yes, that is good news for us if reports are true about us liking JJM.
1. CW
2. JD
3. Maye
4. MHJ
5. Penix Jr
6. JJM
Not only can I imagine it, it's exactly what I'm expecting
So if you believe this is the worst case scenario, and the team ends up with the consensus best, can’t miss, future all pro WR … woe is me!
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
i read the implication as mccarthy is top 3 and maye is qb4 (which is the direction betting markets have been moving).
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implication here is that the Vikings are higher on Penix than McCarthy.
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
i read the implication as mccarthy is top 3 and maye is qb4 (which is the direction betting markets have been moving).
JJM has nearly the same odds for pick 2, 3, 4 and 5. I haven't seen betting odds favoring him as qb3?
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In comment 16451256 Eric from BBI said:
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implication here is that the Vikings are higher on Penix than McCarthy.
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
i read the implication as mccarthy is top 3 and maye is qb4 (which is the direction betting markets have been moving).
JJM has nearly the same odds for pick 2, 3, 4 and 5. I haven't seen betting odds favoring him as qb3?
i said the direction they have been moving - this week he went from +2500 at #2 to +250.
Chi: Williams.
Wash: Daniels.
NE: McCarthy
then the Giants could presumably trade with AZ to get Maye, assuming the cost is reasonable. Is Minnesota really going to give up a ton of draft capital to move up to #5 for Penix?
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implication here is that the Vikings are higher on Penix than McCarthy.
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
i read the implication as mccarthy is top 3 and maye is qb4 (which is the direction betting markets have been moving).
The betting markets may be tightening but Maye is still the favorite to go #2. And still a heavy favorite to go #3 if both he and JJM are both on the board. Don't mistake tightening to be the same as JJM is now a favorite to jump Maye. The markets are saying Maye goes before JJM. We had the same thing 2 months ago with CW and JD. People interpreted JDs rise as though he was destined to go #1. He wasn't then, and now it is clear he won't go #1. CW has separated himself substantially from the pack, and will go #1.
Chi: Williams.
Wash: Daniels.
NE: McCarthy
then the Giants could presumably trade with AZ to get Maye, assuming the cost is reasonable. Is Minnesota really going to give up a ton of draft capital to move up to #5 for Penix?
Picks 11 and 23 isn't really a ton if u believe in the qb
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In comment 16451277 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16451256 Eric from BBI said:
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implication here is that the Vikings are higher on Penix than McCarthy.
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
i read the implication as mccarthy is top 3 and maye is qb4 (which is the direction betting markets have been moving).
JJM has nearly the same odds for pick 2, 3, 4 and 5. I haven't seen betting odds favoring him as qb3?
i said the direction they have been moving - this week he went from +2500 at #2 to +250.
Wow, is it up to 250 now? It was 400 last I checked. Crazy, I mean I love JJM but that is still wild to me.
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In comment 16451256 Eric from BBI said:
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implication here is that the Vikings are higher on Penix than McCarthy.
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
i read the implication as mccarthy is top 3 and maye is qb4 (which is the direction betting markets have been moving).
The betting markets may be tightening but Maye is still the favorite to go #2. And still a heavy favorite to go #3 if both he and JJM are both on the board. Don't mistake tightening to be the same as JJM is now a favorite to jump Maye. The markets are saying Maye goes before JJM. We had the same thing 2 months ago with CW and JD. People interpreted JDs rise as though he was destined to go #1. He wasn't then, and now it is clear he won't go #1. CW has separated himself substantially from the pack, and will go #1.
if maye is still on the board at #4 or #5, who do you suspect went 1-3? the report wasnt that they were trading to #3 it was "top 5" and the 2 most likely trade teams in the top 5 imo are clearly AZ/LAC.
Would this qualify under “it can always get worse”?
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In comment 16451277 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16451256 Eric from BBI said:
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implication here is that the Vikings are higher on Penix than McCarthy.
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
i read the implication as mccarthy is top 3 and maye is qb4 (which is the direction betting markets have been moving).
The betting markets may be tightening but Maye is still the favorite to go #2. And still a heavy favorite to go #3 if both he and JJM are both on the board. Don't mistake tightening to be the same as JJM is now a favorite to jump Maye. The markets are saying Maye goes before JJM. We had the same thing 2 months ago with CW and JD. People interpreted JDs rise as though he was destined to go #1. He wasn't then, and now it is clear he won't go #1. CW has separated himself substantially from the pack, and will go #1.
if maye is still on the board at #4 or #5, who do you suspect went 1-3? the report wasnt that they were trading to #3 it was "top 5" and the 2 most likely trade teams in the top 5 imo are clearly AZ/LAC.
I read it as trading to 3-5 for Maye (whatever they can do) or if not possible trading to 5 for Penix. They aren't targeting JJM or maybe as you imply they know he won't be available and is going top 3.
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it goes:
Chi: Williams.
Wash: Daniels.
NE: McCarthy
then the Giants could presumably trade with AZ to get Maye, assuming the cost is reasonable. Is Minnesota really going to give up a ton of draft capital to move up to #5 for Penix?
Picks 11 and 23 isn't really a ton if u believe in the qb
It is for a QB who has had four season-ending injuries, including one to this throwing shoulder and tearing the same ACL twice.
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
Think of it this way —NYG would literally be the #1 pic of non QBs in a loaded draft, and at least 5 fewer teams to compete with out of the market in next years draft. Sign me up for that outcome.
What QB you like next year? Should be a poor class by all accounts and we then suffer through another year of Jones or the prospect of Drew Lock.
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In comment 16451290 Darwinian said:
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In comment 16451277 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16451256 Eric from BBI said:
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implication here is that the Vikings are higher on Penix than McCarthy.
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
i read the implication as mccarthy is top 3 and maye is qb4 (which is the direction betting markets have been moving).
The betting markets may be tightening but Maye is still the favorite to go #2. And still a heavy favorite to go #3 if both he and JJM are both on the board. Don't mistake tightening to be the same as JJM is now a favorite to jump Maye. The markets are saying Maye goes before JJM. We had the same thing 2 months ago with CW and JD. People interpreted JDs rise as though he was destined to go #1. He wasn't then, and now it is clear he won't go #1. CW has separated himself substantially from the pack, and will go #1.
if maye is still on the board at #4 or #5, who do you suspect went 1-3? the report wasnt that they were trading to #3 it was "top 5" and the 2 most likely trade teams in the top 5 imo are clearly AZ/LAC.
I read it as trading to 3-5 for Maye (whatever they can do) or if not possible trading to 5 for Penix. They aren't targeting JJM or maybe as you imply they know he won't be available and is going top 3.
Or, all the information that is supposedly "leaked" at this time before the draft is either wrong, or intentionally provided as a swerve to keep everyone in the dark as to who the teams actually like or want.
why? It seems he'd be perfect.
based on what everyone has done this offseason the 2 most likely trade spots in the top 5 are #4 or #5.
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
So if you believe this is the worst case scenario, and the team ends up with the consensus best, can’t miss, future all pro WR … woe is me!
woe is YOU would be right if you don'thave a QB because your ALL_Pro WR isn't going to perform well if he ever gets in the Playoffs. But you could be happy to know that you will take down the bottom tier teams.
based on what everyone has done this offseason the 2 most likely trade spots in the top 5 are #4 or #5.
If they have Nix rated highly or Pennix anywhere close to JJM/Maye and they could get a haul and a qb din the same tier, then that's a no Brainer for them imo. They would need to trade down with us to ensure that though, pick 11 would be too risky with the Broncos lurking.
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
So if you believe this is the worst case scenario, and the team ends up with the consensus best, can’t miss, future all pro WR … woe is me!
MHJ isn't going to be any good with Jones throwing to him.
The odds don't favor they trade out unless they are overwhelmed with a trade offer.
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In comment 16451235 Eric from BBI said:
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
So if you believe this is the worst case scenario, and the team ends up with the consensus best, can’t miss, future all pro WR … woe is me!
woe is YOU would be right if you don'thave a QB because your ALL_Pro WR isn't going to perform well if he ever gets in the Playoffs. But you could be happy to know that you will take down the bottom tier teams.
This isn’t the last draft in NFL history. If they somehow had MHJ fall in their lap we should be very pleased. With Jones/Lock//DeVito at the helm they will very likely be picking top 10 again in 2025. With all of these QB hungry teams having a 2024 QB pick going into their second year the Giants would be in a prime position to take a QB in 2025.
That or they have a group of 3 together in a tier and feel they could get a haul and one of the 3 with a trade down to 6. If say they have JJM, Maye and Nix in the same tier, then they could trade down to 6 for a haul and still get one of those 3.
I'll take that prognosis over a 24 year old with shoulder and knee injuries.
Or you can take the guy who has proven he is an excellent thrower over the guy who may someday become an excellent thrower. McCarthy is not near the passer Penix is right now. He certainly could become that, but that is projection and speculation only.
and if they felt that way, justin fields for day 3, or minshew over brissett, or about a half dozen other moves would have made a lot more sense just to hedge. brissett has 20 tds in his last 4 seasons combined.
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Has been graded excellent on the run too. He recentlty turned 21, he's not nearly finished as a prospect. Two seasons starting, improving each year, and coming up big when it mattered.
I'll take that prognosis over a 24 year old with shoulder and knee injuries.
Or you can take the guy who has proven he is an excellent thrower over the guy who may someday become an excellent thrower. McCarthy is not near the passer Penix is right now. He certainly could become that, but that is projection and speculation only.
Too much medical risk at 6.
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In comment 16451277 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16451256 Eric from BBI said:
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implication here is that the Vikings are higher on Penix than McCarthy.
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
i read the implication as mccarthy is top 3 and maye is qb4 (which is the direction betting markets have been moving).
The betting markets may be tightening but Maye is still the favorite to go #2. And still a heavy favorite to go #3 if both he and JJM are both on the board. Don't mistake tightening to be the same as JJM is now a favorite to jump Maye. The markets are saying Maye goes before JJM. We had the same thing 2 months ago with CW and JD. People interpreted JDs rise as though he was destined to go #1. He wasn't then, and now it is clear he won't go #1. CW has separated himself substantially from the pack, and will go #1.
if maye is still on the board at #4 or #5, who do you suspect went 1-3? the report wasnt that they were trading to #3 it was "top 5" and the 2 most likely trade teams in the top 5 imo are clearly AZ/LAC.
I was replying to your assertion that JJM is top 3 and Maye is QB4, according to the movement of the betting mkts. But the betting markets are clear that Maye is likely QB2 and JJM is likely QB4.
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don't agree that the top rated qb's are as good as most think they are.
and if they felt that way, justin fields for day 3, or minshew over brissett, or about a half dozen other moves would have made a lot more sense just to hedge. brissett has 20 tds in his last 4 seasons combined.
Again, no one knows how NE has these QBs rated. They could quite possibly have Nix, JJM and Maye in the same tier or even like Nix more. They could then get a haul and a qb they like a lot, having their cake and eating it too. If the qb pick worked, they would make out like bandits.
How is Garrett Wilson going for the Jets? How did Adams perform for the Raiders?
The people who want to push off QB have no issues not pushing off WR, why? This is a strong QB draft. WRs are more readily available each year.
Draft the QB at 6.
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In comment 16451316 Ira said:
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don't agree that the top rated qb's are as good as most think they are.
and if they felt that way, justin fields for day 3, or minshew over brissett, or about a half dozen other moves would have made a lot more sense just to hedge. brissett has 20 tds in his last 4 seasons combined.
Again, no one knows how NE has these QBs rated. They could quite possibly have Nix, JJM and Maye in the same tier or even like Nix more. They could then get a haul and a qb they like a lot, having their cake and eating it too. If the qb pick worked, they would make out like bandits.
Pats tiers could be like this:
Tier 1: CW
Tier 2: JD
Tier 3: Maye, JJM, Nix
Tier 4: Penix
Thus, if Daniels isn't there at 3 they would trade down with us for pick 6, 47 and future 1st+3rd or so (yuck I would hate to give up that much). They then would get one of the 3 in their Tier 3 at 6 along with that king's ransom to rebuild their offense. They could even trade down with Minn to 11 and have deals in place to trade back up slightly if they had to for Nix (this would be less likely). I don't see them trading down with the Vikings really, it's too risky if they like the QBs together in a Tier.
I was replying to your assertion that JJM is top 3 and Maye is QB4, according to the movement of the betting mkts. But the betting markets are clear that Maye is likely QB2 and JJM is likely QB4.
wrong - the betting markets are pretty clear that daniels is QB2 and JJM went from being a far bigger long shot to being QB2 than Maye to a much smaller one.
draft kings on pick #2 right now:
daniels -160
maye +170
mccarthy +275 (was +2500 before this week)
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I was replying to your assertion that JJM is top 3 and Maye is QB4, according to the movement of the betting mkts. But the betting markets are clear that Maye is likely QB2 and JJM is likely QB4.
wrong - the betting markets are pretty clear that daniels is QB2 and JJM went from being a far bigger long shot to being QB2 than Maye to a much smaller one.
draft kings on pick #2 right now:
daniels -160
maye +170
mccarthy +275 (was +2500 before this week)
Vegasinsider has Maye ahead of Daniels. But the point was to said JJM was QB2 or 3 ahead of Maye and exactly zero sports books say that. Sorry you're incorrect.
How is Garrett Wilson going for the Jets? How did Adams perform for the Raiders?
The people who want to push off QB have no issues not pushing off WR, why? This is a strong QB draft. WRs are more readily available each year.
Draft the QB at 6.
in 2004 the arizona cardinals drafted larry fitzgerald with josh mccown as QB. marvin harrison was drafted in IND a couple years before Peyton. tyreek hill and travis kelce were on the chiefs before pat mahomes.
all teams can control is picking the best players they can when they get on the clock. nobody is unaware of the importance of QBs - that's why it appears teams are fighting as hard as they are to get into the top 4 for QBs, which has never happened before.
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Of a highly touted WR performing well with a below average passer? WR makes no sense for this team build right now.
How is Garrett Wilson going for the Jets? How did Adams perform for the Raiders?
The people who want to push off QB have no issues not pushing off WR, why? This is a strong QB draft. WRs are more readily available each year.
Draft the QB at 6.
in 2004 the arizona cardinals drafted larry fitzgerald with josh mccown as QB. marvin harrison was drafted in IND a couple years before Peyton. tyreek hill and travis kelce were on the chiefs before pat mahomes.
all teams can control is picking the best players they can when they get on the clock. nobody is unaware of the importance of QBs - that's why it appears teams are fighting as hard as they are to get into the top 4 for QBs, which has never happened before.
Good post!
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In comment 16451331 Darwinian said:
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I was replying to your assertion that JJM is top 3 and Maye is QB4, according to the movement of the betting mkts. But the betting markets are clear that Maye is likely QB2 and JJM is likely QB4.
wrong - the betting markets are pretty clear that daniels is QB2 and JJM went from being a far bigger long shot to being QB2 than Maye to a much smaller one.
draft kings on pick #2 right now:
daniels -160
maye +170
mccarthy +275 (was +2500 before this week)
Vegasinsider has Maye ahead of Daniels. But the point was to said JJM was QB2 or 3 ahead of Maye and exactly zero sports books say that. Sorry you're incorrect.
may want to double check that theory darwin:
In comment 16451277 Eric on Li said:
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implication here is that the Vikings are higher on Penix than McCarthy.
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
i read the implication as mccarthy is top 3 and maye is qb4 (which is the direction betting markets have been moving).
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In comment 16451272 Spider56 said:
woe is YOU would be right if you don'thave a QB because your ALL_Pro WR isn't going to perform well if he ever gets in the Playoffs. But you could be happy to know that you will take down the bottom tier teams.
This isn’t the last draft in NFL history. If they somehow had MHJ fall in their lap we should be very pleased. With Jones/Lock//DeVito at the helm they will very likely be picking top 10 again in 2025. With all of these QB hungry teams having a 2024 QB pick going into their second year the Giants would be in a prime position to take a QB in 2025.
Yes this isn't the last draft in NFL History - but in regard to net year's draft of where they might pick -
1--- If Giants get the super WR - he is super for a reason in that he will win you football games. Therefore probably not going to be pick where we are now wit not only a stud WR but a better OL and a probable better Defense.
2--- Along with probably having an easier schedule.
3--- Along with the Giants at the end of the season don’t deliberately throw football;; games like the Eagles did a few years ago to get better positioned in the draft.
4—Along with the Giants -I have yet to see don’t do what Washington did and just throw in the towel and gut the team. Several year’s we noticed the Giants out of it in early December but they wind up doing pretty well the last month.
5--- And as for next year - the QB class thought to be weaker so with a pick beyond 6 to 10 let's say - with fewer QB's to choose from - you made comment about this not being the last draft in NFL History-- well the same geos with that next year there won't be many QB Hungry teams.
6--- As result, when we pick 10 next year - O fear the comments of passing on a QB will be prevalent because "this isn't the last draft in NFL History" to draft a QB.
It’s not just 1 thing from above but all that imo that magnify the need to get the QB (if they like him) and it definitely would be “Woe is me” if they don’t. More than likley say hello to mediocrity the same way Jefferson and Hill have led their teams to if no QB taken.
5--- And as for next year - the QB class thought to be weaker so with a pick beyond 6 to 10 let's say - with fewer QB's to choose from - you made comment about this not being the last draft in NFL History-- well the same geos with that next year there won't be many QB Hungry teams.
this is Cousins 2022 (to get full year numbers)
This seems to line up with what execs said who were down on Penix, even though it was based on one game where he was trying to play catch up.
If so, then unless someone like Denver trades up, McCarthy should be there for the Giants.
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In comment 16451235 Eric from BBI said:
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
Think of it this way —NYG would literally be the #1 pic of non QBs in a loaded draft, and at least 5 fewer teams to compete with out of the market in next years draft. Sign me up for that outcome.
What QB you like next year? Should be a poor class by all accounts and we then suffer through another year of Jones or the prospect of Drew Lock.
I haven’t looked yet but if you consider, we’re drooling over guys like Daniels and JJM when Daniels was not on the radar this time a year ago and JJM wasn’t even after the season had ended. So saying we have to draft a QB this year because there won’t be one next year is a head scratcher. And regarding Jones as the QB next year, I think it’s foolish to force the #6 overall pick as a need based pick. It should not be all about 2024. We don’t need just a guy at QB. At least I don’t. Maybe others do.
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Penix doesn't seem like an ideal fit for what the Vikings like to do on offense.
why? It seems he'd be perfect.
I already explained in this thread.
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In comment 16451185 Eric from BBI said:
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Penix doesn't seem like an ideal fit for what the Vikings like to do on offense.
why? It seems he'd be perfect.
I already explained in this thread.
Yes I saw afterwards. I just wonderthough if those routes were designed more for Cousins strength. I read somewhere I think in 2022 that he was weak in Man Routes.
they were the qb2 and qb3 in that draft. i dont think anyone is advocating passing on whoever the qb2/qb3 are in this draft.
if the top 4 qbs are off the board when the giants pick, or however many the giants consider top qbs, the more applicable question is should they have forced a pick for a lesser prospect like jp losman (who was QB4 and went #22 in 2004) over fitzgerald just because QB is more important?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
And it leads to desperation next year at QB. You could see a scenario where they pay Dak significant money. I'd prefer to address QB now.
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In comment 16451235 Eric from BBI said:
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
So if you believe this is the worst case scenario, and the team ends up with the consensus best, can’t miss, future all pro WR … woe is me!
MHJ isn't going to be any good with Jones throwing to him.
DeAndre Hopkins was good with guys like TJ Yates, Bryan Hoyer, and Brock Osweiler throwing the ball. I don't think Jones is the future, but he's better than those guys.
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In comment 16451285 UberAlias said:
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In comment 16451235 Eric from BBI said:
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
Think of it this way —NYG would literally be the #1 pic of non QBs in a loaded draft, and at least 5 fewer teams to compete with out of the market in next years draft. Sign me up for that outcome.
What QB you like next year? Should be a poor class by all accounts and we then suffer through another year of Jones or the prospect of Drew Lock.
I haven’t looked yet but if you consider, we’re drooling over guys like Daniels and JJM when Daniels was not on the radar this time a year ago and JJM wasn’t even after the season had ended. So saying we have to draft a QB this year because there won’t be one next year is a head scratcher. And regarding Jones as the QB next year, I think it’s foolish to force the #6 overall pick as a need based pick. It should not be all about 2024. We don’t need just a guy at QB. At least I don’t. Maybe others do.
It's not a head-scratcher. You have at least SY saying at this moment some positive stuff on JJM along with everything we are hearing.
SO you know the drooling is appropriate this year to an extent so why are you assuming next year there will be the same and that the Giants will be in a position to get?
If you aren't drooling for next year- then why not get onboard with what seems like a consensus of a strong QB class that you know it is at least considered that. While next year it is much more of an unknown.
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
Based on them making only one SuperBowl (after they found a QB) and not winning any, you can certainly make the argument they would have been much better served with one of those QBs instead of the HoF WR.
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Teams draft QBs this year, consider 2024 to be 2018 all over again. Then the 2025 draft turns out looking like 2019 for the Giants with only one good QB prospect who is covered with warts.
It may be. But if that’s your reasoning for over drafting a Trey Lance or Pickett it would be a foolish move. You draft PLAYERS not POSITIONS.
You draft PLAYERS at POSITIONS. The QB market is generally veryhigh deamnd - so in SUpply and Demand - generally you reach for the QB Player because of the high demand at the QB POSITION is hardest to find/ most important.
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What I think it boils down to is this: what looks like a better team build for the Giants?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
If the Giants have Maye and McCarthy clearly better than Penix, then I think they have a player evaluation problem.
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With the benefit of hindsight, shouldn't the Cardinals have drafted either Rivers or Roethlisberger?
Based on them making only one SuperBowl (after they found a QB) and not winning any, you can certainly make the argument they would have been much better served with one of those QBs instead of the HoF WR.
they are both HOF QBs of course that would have been better. nobody is choosing a HOF QB over a HOF WR but that isnt the actual choice - it's a strawman.
the choice may end up being between a WR they have a top grade on vs. a QB they dont.
I don’t know, they made it work with Cousins, who’s far less mobile than Penix.
These names aren’t that hard people, we’re not asking you to spell Eluemunor.
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In comment 16451395 Go Terps said:
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What I think it boils down to is this: what looks like a better team build for the Giants?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
If the Giants have Maye and McCarthy clearly better than Penix, then I think they have a player evaluation problem.
With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
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In comment 16451400 FStubbs said:
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In comment 16451395 Go Terps said:
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What I think it boils down to is this: what looks like a better team build for the Giants?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
If the Giants have Maye and McCarthy clearly better than Penix, then I think they have a player evaluation problem.
With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
Sir, that's the president of the Malik Willis in the first round fanclub to you.
These names aren’t that hard people, we’re not asking you to spell Eluemunor.
I think you mean Nabers and Penix. But no it will be one or the other. Not both.
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In comment 16451383 Ivan15 said:
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Teams draft QBs this year, consider 2024 to be 2018 all over again. Then the 2025 draft turns out looking like 2019 for the Giants with only one good QB prospect who is covered with warts.
It may be. But if that’s your reasoning for over drafting a Trey Lance or Pickett it would be a foolish move. You draft PLAYERS not POSITIONS.
You draft PLAYERS at POSITIONS. The QB market is generally veryhigh deamnd - so in SUpply and Demand - generally you reach for the QB Player because of the high demand at the QB POSITION is hardest to find/ most important.
This is true. NYG needs to be searching for their QB of the future. That's not in question. If there is a QB they love, they have to whatever they can to get him. What they should not do, however, is settle and draft a mediocre QB just because we don't like Jones. That would be foolish. You don't pass on a blue chip WR to draft a Ryan Tannehill. I realize there are a lot of fans who would be perfectly happy with that. I for one would not. I want the team to set championship level standard for their QB and keep the search open until we can find that guy. Hopefully it happens this year, but I won't sign up for settling.
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
Think of it this way —NYG would literally be the #1 pic of non QBs in a loaded draft, and at least 5 fewer teams to compete with out of the market in next years draft. Sign me up for that outcome.
Good post!
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
I would do the happy dance and take Harrison.
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In comment 16451235 Eric from BBI said:
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
Think of it this way —NYG would literally be the #1 pic of non QBs in a loaded draft, and at least 5 fewer teams to compete with out of the market in next years draft. Sign me up for that outcome.
Good post!
QBs I could see liking in next year's draft:
Dart, Ward, Sanders, Ewers. I don't like Beck at the moment. Its definitely hard to say if it will be below average or not, but it doesn't look as promising. This year's draft has been heralded as special for year's now. The biggest concern for me is I don't see us having this high of a pick for a while even if we don't add a QB. Our o line was fielding practice squad guys and we were starting a udfa qb, Daboll still got 6 wins which could have easily been 9. I domt see us having a top 10 pick with an easier schedule, Burns, improved o line play, development of our younger guys and a potentially elite pass rush. I see us being in the middle of the pack draft wise. I think Schoen also doesn't forsee us having a pick this high again. If that's how it goes, we will really be stuck in qb hell for a while. Also, we are in the driver's seat for a tradeup, not the Vikings. Schoen can get a qb he likes if he chooses to he will not be bested by the Vikings because pick 6 in this draft is very valuable with 3-4 qbs going and about 6 other blue chip players.
Trading up is not guaranteed, but losing to the Vikings and having them jump over us to pick a Maye or McCarthy this year would be heartbreaking. While reading the Vikings forum today, I noticed that no one is discussing Penix as a potential QB option. Therefore, I am unsure what to make of this asshat info. If the Vikings were to select Penix with a top 5 pick with trade up, it would certainly be surprising.
There is no guarantee that next year's QB will be any good or that we will pick in the top 10. No one expected the Giants to pick 25th in the 2023 draft.
We are at pick 6, which is closer to the top, so we should swing for the fences. According to Sy, who I trust for his QB evaluations, prioritizing the QB position is crucial this year. In 2022, we had picks 5 and 7, but the QB class was poor, so I understand Schoen's decision to wait. In 2023, Jones performed adequately, and we unexpectedly made the playoffs, causing our QB timeline to become somewhat mismanaged. Now, in 2024, we are back to square one with no QB certainty. Therefore, 2024 is the year when Schoen should pull the trigger, just like Beane did in 2018 with Josh Allen. Let's get this done and get Maye or McCarthy to Giants.
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
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In comment 16451419 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
Nice spin wanna be
Surprised you didn’t play the race card again against the ownership
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In comment 16451316 Ira said:
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don't agree that the top rated qb's are as good as most think they are.
and if they felt that way, justin fields for day 3, or minshew over brissett, or about a half dozen other moves would have made a lot more sense just to hedge. brissett has 20 tds in his last 4 seasons combined.
Again, no one knows how NE has these QBs rated. They could quite possibly have Nix, JJM and Maye in the same tier or even like Nix more. They could then get a haul and a qb they like a lot, having their cake and eating it too. If the qb pick worked, they would make out like bandits.
I don’t think NE takes a QB at 3. I think they wait to take a QB later. They have Brisette and he did a good job for them in the past. I think they go D or WR
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In comment 16451467 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451419 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
Nice spin wanna be
Surprised you didn’t play the race card again against the ownership
MBavaro doing his thing. If he isn’t defending the Front Office, he’s criticizing posters he didn’t like the first time around on the site.
How do you see that? Is this team built to compete in ‘24? I don’t think so. Don’t understand why everyone is worried about NOT competing this season. I think it is very much expected. So what? Let’s keep building the roster. I wouldn’t say it’s a throw away season but even if we were able to get the QB this year what would you actually expect in ‘24? Eric has said that a new QB will give the fanbase hope and that’s okay
But, Malik Willis!
But if you believe we had no QB with Jones then taking a shot on a QB like Willis that showed some promise to become another LJ is worth a gamble. You miss the shots you don’t take. Giants took ZERO shots after drafting Jones. THAT is far more foolish than taking a shot on MW when the answer is not in the building.
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In comment 16451475 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451467 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451419 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
Nice spin wanna be
Surprised you didn’t play the race card again against the ownership
MBavaro doing his thing. If he isn’t defending the Front Office, he’s criticizing posters he didn’t like the first time around on the site.
Stalker alert again
And you are making up false narratives that I had another handle
What I stated was true
If you don’t like what I say feel free to ignore me as opposed to paying way too
attention to what I say
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In comment 16451478 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451475 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451467 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451419 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
Nice spin wanna be
Surprised you didn’t play the race card again against the ownership
MBavaro doing his thing. If he isn’t defending the Front Office, he’s criticizing posters he didn’t like the first time around on the site.
Stalker alert again
And you are making up false narratives that I had another handle
What I stated was true
If you don’t like what I say feel free to ignore me as opposed to paying way too
attention to what I say
JimmyGoogs/LH17/ThomasG calling anyone else out for having multiple handles is freakin hysterical. Self awareness is just one of a multitude of weaknesses he struggles with
I’d rather take Bowers at 6 than Penix. No chance the NYG take him. And if they do, he better be the 2nd coming of Steve Young.
Yes, completely stupid. Worried about Neal and his protection. Well Neal has to step up his game.
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In comment 16451187 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16451179 Go Terps said:
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That Penix workout was manna from heaven for the Giants.
Would you take him at 6?
I don't know how you can be happy taking McCarthy or Maye at 6 but not Penix (assuming you're confident he's healthy).
I thought that was the big takeaway from the workout - Penix is healthy enough to be an explosive athlete.
He's a better passer than both McCarthy and Maye.
With a worse injury past.
along with being nearly 3 years older...
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It makes no sense.
Yes, completely stupid. Worried about Neal and his protection. Well Neal has to step up his game.
And how did it with out having a right handed QB with Andrew Thomas?
Penix is the best in this class at throwing decisively and avoiding sacks. He'd be a colossal improvement over Jones in this area alone.
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In comment 16451548 Go Terps said:
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It makes no sense.
Yes, completely stupid. Worried about Neal and his protection. Well Neal has to step up his game.
And how did it with out having a right handed QB with Andrew Thomas?
Penix is the best in this class at throwing decisively and avoiding sacks. He'd be a colossal improvement over Jones in this area alone.
Yes he'd be a big upgrade, I agree. He seems ready to go, owing to his age and experience. And it seems to KOC and Daboll both like what they see. I think Penix is in the mix, either at #6 or a slight trade back.
1 - T Lawrence
2 - Z Wilson
3 - T Lance
11 - J Fields
5 - J Chase
6 - J Waddle
10 - D Smith
2020
1 - J Burrow
5 - T Tagovailoa
6 - J Herbert
26 - J Love
12 - H Ruggs
15 - J Jeudy
17 - C Lamb
Or something in between?
20/20 hindsight in 2020 you don't pass on Tua, Herbert or Love for C Lamb
20/20 hindsight in 2021 you pass on Z Wilson, T Lance & J Fields for J Chase, J Waddle or D Smith.
Decisions, decisions ...
But if you believe we had no QB with Jones then taking a shot on a QB like Willis that showed some promise to become another LJ is worth a gamble. You miss the shots you don’t take. Giants took ZERO shots after drafting Jones. THAT is far more foolish than taking a shot on MW when the answer is not in the building.
That assumes the Giants hire and acquire the right pieces around Jackson. Jackson gets Jason Garrett and Joe Judge as his offensive minds and players like Nate Solder protecting his blindside, or his best target being Evan Engram who had trouble with concentration drops and staying healthy, and WR's like Golladay, Toney, a washed Tate or an oft injured Sterling Shepard? There's a reason the Ravens have one losing season since 2008 and isn't due to Lamar.
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In comment 16451491 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16451478 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451475 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451467 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451419 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
Nice spin wanna be
Surprised you didn’t play the race card again against the ownership
MBavaro doing his thing. If he isn’t defending the Front Office, he’s criticizing posters he didn’t like the first time around on the site.
Stalker alert again
And you are making up false narratives that I had another handle
What I stated was true
If you don’t like what I say feel free to ignore me as opposed to paying way too
attention to what I say
JimmyGoogs/LH17/ThomasG calling anyone else out for having multiple handles is freakin hysterical. Self awareness is just one of a multitude of weaknesses he struggles with
+10000000
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In comment 16451395 Go Terps said:
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What I think it boils down to is this: what looks like a better team build for the Giants?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
If the Giants have Maye and McCarthy clearly better than Penix, then I think they have a player evaluation problem.
See that right there says you are full of shit. Maye is clearly better than Pennix. Put Pennix on NC and Maye on Washington and you see one (Pennix) struggle mightily and the other Maye have numbers like 2022... You lose credibility saying that, it's Willis all over again.. But the Giants are racists right? That is your "player evaliation" problem...You are back to showing your true intentions..
But if you believe we had no QB with Jones then taking a shot on a QB like Willis that showed some promise to become another LJ is worth a gamble. You miss the shots you don’t take. Giants took ZERO shots after drafting Jones. THAT is far more foolish than taking a shot on MW when the answer is not in the building.
Lamar Jackson was drafted at the right spot - he would've been a bust on 75% of the teams in the NFL, including this one. Most coaches wouldn't have known how to develop him properly.
Malik Willis is the type of QB that in the past would've held a clipboard for 2-3 years before he saw any game action. This is not that kind of era anymore.
But if you believe we had no QB with Jones then taking a shot on a QB like Willis that showed some promise to become another LJ is worth a gamble. You miss the shots you don’t take. Giants took ZERO shots after drafting Jones. THAT is far more foolish than taking a shot on MW when the answer is not in the building.
Every now and then I need a good laugh. Thank you Mrs Willis for joining BBI.
C'mon just stop with this. And Daniel Joens could've been a superstar with a better OL and better coaches etc too because you say-so with all your experience as a NFL scout?
He's one of the guys where I've been asking myself --if the medicals check out, does his placement on team's boards match the media's? I wouldn't be surprised if he showed higher. Maybe we're seeing that.
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In comment 16451410 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451400 FStubbs said:
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In comment 16451395 Go Terps said:
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What I think it boils down to is this: what looks like a better team build for the Giants?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
If the Giants have Maye and McCarthy clearly better than Penix, then I think they have a player evaluation problem.
With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
Sir, that's the president of the Malik Willis in the first round fanclub to you.
Malik Willis is the TRUTH. Vrabel didn’t want him so he sat him and now he’s out of a job.
1 - T Lawrence
2 - Z Wilson
3 - T Lance
11 - J Fields
5 - J Chase
6 - J Waddle
10 - D Smith
2020
1 - J Burrow
5 - T Tagovailoa
6 - J Herbert
26 - J Love
12 - H Ruggs
15 - J Jeudy
17 - C Lamb
Or something in between?
20/20 hindsight in 2020 you don't pass on Tua, Herbert or Love for C Lamb
20/20 hindsight in 2021 you pass on Z Wilson, T Lance & J Fields for J Chase, J Waddle or D Smith.
Decisions, decisions ...
This doesn't matter. Caleb doesn't matter. Daniels probably won't matter. There's a 50/50 chance that Maye matters for us. The relevant QBs are (Maybe) Maye, JJM, and Penix. Nix and Rattler if we go WR in round 1.
This could be a huge QB year with no options available for us. The question is, what to make of the QB who are in play for the New York Giants.
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451410 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451400 FStubbs said:
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In comment 16451395 Go Terps said:
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What I think it boils down to is this: what looks like a better team build for the Giants?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
If the Giants have Maye and McCarthy clearly better than Penix, then I think they have a player evaluation problem.
With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
Sir, that's the president of the Malik Willis in the first round fanclub to you.
Malik Willis is the TRUTH. Vrabel didn’t want him so he sat him and now he’s out of a job.
People love Vrabel. I think he's good as a coach in some respects. He's not any more successful than Mike McCarthy, who folks like to rag on. I don't think Vrabel has a strong approach to QB. I don't think it's a coincidence that QB was never a strong suit of the Titans.
The Green Bay spanking of the Cowboys this past January was my favorite game of the year.
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In comment 16451389 UberAlias said:
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In comment 16451383 Ivan15 said:
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Teams draft QBs this year, consider 2024 to be 2018 all over again. Then the 2025 draft turns out looking like 2019 for the Giants with only one good QB prospect who is covered with warts.
It may be. But if that’s your reasoning for over drafting a Trey Lance or Pickett it would be a foolish move. You draft PLAYERS not POSITIONS.
You draft PLAYERS at POSITIONS. The QB market is generally veryhigh deamnd - so in SUpply and Demand - generally you reach for the QB Player because of the high demand at the QB POSITION is hardest to find/ most important.
This is true. NYG needs to be searching for their QB of the future. That's not in question. If there is a QB they love, they have to whatever they can to get him. What they should not do, however, is settle and draft a mediocre QB just because we don't like Jones. That would be foolish. You don't pass on a blue chip WR to draft a Ryan Tannehill. I realize there are a lot of fans who would be perfectly happy with that. I for one would not. I want the team to set championship level standard for their QB and keep the search open until we can find that guy. Hopefully it happens this year, but I won't sign up for settling.
Totally agree.
LOL! First of all - he wasn't the only one banging the drum for Lamar. No, I'm not claiming to be one of them, but he wasn't the only one.
Second of all - he's also the guy who said that NO ONE was worth a second contract. Including Lamar. So he would STILL be looking for another QB today...
He loved Bo nix too until he saw him throw in shorts. He doesn’t know what he’s looking at nor can he explain why he loves these guys. He throws stats at you like it’s baseball. I gloss over his posts and move on quickly. Then he says player evaluation is very fluid. It really isn’t. You’ve seen 10 plus full games. Seeing them in shorts doesn’t change anything for scouts. It’s about interviews. It’s why I crack up when people dismiss Rattler. On tape this last year and last year he’s a stud and very different from what he was. He will likely go round 2. I can see penix dropping out of round 1.
That’s a funny comment. Go look at how many QBs he fell in love with in this draft alone. How can he go wrong when he names 5 qbs he loves. Disappeared during the 22 season because he couldn’t handle it. Hes a clown and somehow half of bbi listens to his nonsense. Penix is great at avoiding sacks. Let’s break that down. He played behind a good line with 3 stud WRs. The field side point is a huge one and if you watched him play, which I did a ton, under pressure he ducks and flings the ball to the field side to Rome who is a stud. Penix is what he is. A good college QB same as nix. Their AA will not translate. Penix is a statue. Look at tua. He’s much more athletic and build better than penix and does take shots. He’s suffered physically. He’s in a great system as well. Penix will struggle mightily and he will not make it in the NFL I’d bet he doesn’t go round 1. You can’t find a single clip of him standing tall in the pocket and delivering a football accurately. In college vs weaker athletes it works. In the pros the field shrinks his style of play does not work. Tua is an accurate passer all over the field. Penix is not. He’s a classic chuck and duck and with better athletes on his team than the opposition. Hes built out of paper, duct tape and glue. Look at his body type. His upper body is hunched over because of his shoulder issues. He’s actually kyphotic. AC joints are near his damn ears. He legit looks like he’s been in the league for 15 years with that body structure. I’d be shocked if he goes round 1. Totally stunned.
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Big fking babies worried about other people's opinions. Terps is more accurate than most of you clowns.
That’s a funny comment. Go look at how many QBs he fell in love with in this draft alone. How can he go wrong when he names 5 qbs he loves. Disappeared during the 22 season because he couldn’t handle it. Hes a clown and somehow half of bbi listens to his nonsense. Penix is great at avoiding sacks. Let’s break that down. He played behind a good line with 3 stud WRs. The field side point is a huge one and if you watched him play, which I did a ton, under pressure he ducks and flings the ball to the field side to Rome who is a stud. Penix is what he is. A good college QB same as nix. Their AA will not translate. Penix is a statue. Look at tua. He’s much more athletic and build better than penix and does take shots. He’s suffered physically. He’s in a great system as well. Penix will struggle mightily and he will not make it in the NFL I’d bet he doesn’t go round 1. You can’t find a single clip of him standing tall in the pocket and delivering a football accurately. In college vs weaker athletes it works. In the pros the field shrinks his style of play does not work. Tua is an accurate passer all over the field. Penix is not. He’s a classic chuck and duck and with better athletes on his team than the opposition. Hes built out of paper, duct tape and glue. Look at his body type. His upper body is hunched over because of his shoulder issues. He’s actually kyphotic. AC joints are near his damn ears. He legit looks like he’s been in the league for 15 years with that body structure. I’d be shocked if he goes round 1. Totally stunned.
Tuck, I don’t think it is accurate to explain Go Terp’s sabbatical as a disappearance brought on by the success of the 22 season. The thread where a mod was threatening to ban him seemed more likely to be the cause. I am almost certain Go Terps left before the 22 season started.
I regularly, see more recent posters doing those things- daily!
I regularly, see more recent posters doing those things- daily!
You would classify a good poster as playing the race card?
I regularly, see more recent posters doing those things- daily!
Trubluelarry, Y28, and JonC dominate these two as best posters. You enjoy reading them say the same thing over and over and ruin threads? That’s what bw and Terps are known for.
I know it's been floating around for years but I've been unable to pinpoint its origins.
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and I've been here since the beginning. Terps and BW are two of the best posters on this site. You can disagree with their takes on things, but they are adults, who don't attack, name call, or otherwise violate the Code of Conduct here.
I regularly, see more recent posters doing those things- daily!
Trubluelarry, Y28, and JonC dominate these two as best posters. You enjoy reading them say the same thing over and over and ruin threads? That’s what bw and Terps are known for.
He said two of the best posters, not the two best posters. And I've never seen bw or Terps ruin a thread. The thing that ruins threads is getting into personal squabbles and bickering to me. I don't see either of them stoop to that level. That's childish and silly. If you don't like a perspective from someone or think it's repetitive, debate it respectfully or ignore it. That's just my 2 cents.
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In comment 16451179 Go Terps said:
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That Penix workout was manna from heaven for the Giants.
Would you take him at 6?
I don't know how you can be happy taking McCarthy or Maye at 6 but not Penix (assuming you're confident he's healthy).
I thought that was the big takeaway from the workout - Penix is healthy enough to be an explosive athlete.
He's a better passer than both McCarthy and Maye.
What in the world is going on this year?
There are elite prospects at many marquee positions and people are pretending like 20-25% of the starting quarterbacks in the NFL are going to come out of this draft and most of them must be chosen top 6. Nothing remotely like this has ever happened before. And it isn’t going to happen this year either (way way way more chance of only 3 QBs going top 6 than 5.
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In comment 16451951 Dave on the UWS said:
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and I've been here since the beginning. Terps and BW are two of the best posters on this site. You can disagree with their takes on things, but they are adults, who don't attack, name call, or otherwise violate the Code of Conduct here.
I regularly, see more recent posters doing those things- daily!
Trubluelarry, Y28, and JonC dominate these two as best posters. You enjoy reading them say the same thing over and over and ruin threads? That’s what bw and Terps are known for.
He said two of the best posters, not the two best posters. And I've never seen bw or Terps ruin a thread. The thing that ruins threads is getting into personal squabbles and bickering to me. I don't see either of them stoop to that level. That's childish and silly. If you don't like a perspective from someone or think it's repetitive, debate it respectfully or ignore it. That's just my 2 cents.
You weren’t here during the season where they just repeat the same nonsense about Daniel Jones in every thread, multiple times a thread.
Both Terps and Bw have openly said they loved somewhere between 8-12 QBs in college - so when one becomes good - they can always say they were right. Bw is good for some back and forth though. And does admit when he misses so he’s a pretty good poster.
Terps - not so much.
The Green Bay spanking of the Cowboys this past January was my favorite game of the year.
c'mon. The posters looking to push Malik Willis can give su some good laughs. Stop ruining the thread with logic.
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
I genuinely like you even though we disagree a good amount, but this isn't really a flex. There are a lot of posters here that can credibly say the same.
While I defended certain moves by DG as either a necessary evil without good alternatives (Solder signing), or simply because I agreed with the thinking regarding the player (drafting Saquon), I criticized him immensely at the time for a number of blunders, and this isn't meant to be comprehensive, but, to start, the Golladay signing, the drafting of DJ (I had him as a 2nd rounder), trading back up for DeAndre Baker when there were a number of similarly talented corners on the board, the Toney pick (in particular, calling him a clean player off the field when it was known in the scouting community that wasn't the case), not taking Micah Parsons, just for starters.
That said, I like Jedrick Wills over Andrew Thomas and loved Isaiah Simmons.
But I was open about wanting to let Eli have his retirement tour year, punting QB in 2019 in favor of Josh Allen (edge), and waiting until 2020 for QB, when it was a much better QB draft. I loved the QB Josh Allen coming out, but I also loved Sam Darnold.
And yes, I disagreed with you on Lamar then because I didn't feel he was a good enough thrower to be a good NFL QB. But part of the reason also was I thought he wasn't the kind of QB that could win you a Super Bowl. I thought then and still, albeit to a lesser degree, still believe he's always going to wilt against the good playoff defenses.
But if I were to have been calling the shots for the Giants, we would've traded down in 2018 with Denver more than likely. And at 5, I would've taken Barkley still, but if he was gone, it would've been Josh Allen. If it was Barkley, in 2019 we would've had the other Josh Allen, and in 2020 we very likely would've had Herbert. BTW, I'm not saying this as some flex either, I certainly missed plenty as I alluded to, but it's really hard to be worse than Gettleman was.