A good friend is plugged into the Vikings organization and has given me info over the last 10 years and has usually been spot on.
Last night he told me that the Vikings were trading into the top 5 as we all expect, and they are targeting Drake Maye.
What was more interesting is that if Maye is gone, they will pivot to Pennix in the top 5.
Take it for what it's worth.
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In comment 16451235 Eric from BBI said:
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
Think of it this way —NYG would literally be the #1 pic of non QBs in a loaded draft, and at least 5 fewer teams to compete with out of the market in next years draft. Sign me up for that outcome.
What QB you like next year? Should be a poor class by all accounts and we then suffer through another year of Jones or the prospect of Drew Lock.
I haven’t looked yet but if you consider, we’re drooling over guys like Daniels and JJM when Daniels was not on the radar this time a year ago and JJM wasn’t even after the season had ended. So saying we have to draft a QB this year because there won’t be one next year is a head scratcher. And regarding Jones as the QB next year, I think it’s foolish to force the #6 overall pick as a need based pick. It should not be all about 2024. We don’t need just a guy at QB. At least I don’t. Maybe others do.
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Penix doesn't seem like an ideal fit for what the Vikings like to do on offense.
why? It seems he'd be perfect.
I already explained in this thread.
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In comment 16451185 Eric from BBI said:
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Penix doesn't seem like an ideal fit for what the Vikings like to do on offense.
why? It seems he'd be perfect.
I already explained in this thread.
Yes I saw afterwards. I just wonderthough if those routes were designed more for Cousins strength. I read somewhere I think in 2022 that he was weak in Man Routes.
they were the qb2 and qb3 in that draft. i dont think anyone is advocating passing on whoever the qb2/qb3 are in this draft.
if the top 4 qbs are off the board when the giants pick, or however many the giants consider top qbs, the more applicable question is should they have forced a pick for a lesser prospect like jp losman (who was QB4 and went #22 in 2004) over fitzgerald just because QB is more important?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
And it leads to desperation next year at QB. You could see a scenario where they pay Dak significant money. I'd prefer to address QB now.
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In comment 16451235 Eric from BBI said:
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
So if you believe this is the worst case scenario, and the team ends up with the consensus best, can’t miss, future all pro WR … woe is me!
MHJ isn't going to be any good with Jones throwing to him.
DeAndre Hopkins was good with guys like TJ Yates, Bryan Hoyer, and Brock Osweiler throwing the ball. I don't think Jones is the future, but he's better than those guys.
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In comment 16451285 UberAlias said:
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In comment 16451235 Eric from BBI said:
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
Think of it this way —NYG would literally be the #1 pic of non QBs in a loaded draft, and at least 5 fewer teams to compete with out of the market in next years draft. Sign me up for that outcome.
What QB you like next year? Should be a poor class by all accounts and we then suffer through another year of Jones or the prospect of Drew Lock.
I haven’t looked yet but if you consider, we’re drooling over guys like Daniels and JJM when Daniels was not on the radar this time a year ago and JJM wasn’t even after the season had ended. So saying we have to draft a QB this year because there won’t be one next year is a head scratcher. And regarding Jones as the QB next year, I think it’s foolish to force the #6 overall pick as a need based pick. It should not be all about 2024. We don’t need just a guy at QB. At least I don’t. Maybe others do.
It's not a head-scratcher. You have at least SY saying at this moment some positive stuff on JJM along with everything we are hearing.
SO you know the drooling is appropriate this year to an extent so why are you assuming next year there will be the same and that the Giants will be in a position to get?
If you aren't drooling for next year- then why not get onboard with what seems like a consensus of a strong QB class that you know it is at least considered that. While next year it is much more of an unknown.
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
Based on them making only one SuperBowl (after they found a QB) and not winning any, you can certainly make the argument they would have been much better served with one of those QBs instead of the HoF WR.
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Teams draft QBs this year, consider 2024 to be 2018 all over again. Then the 2025 draft turns out looking like 2019 for the Giants with only one good QB prospect who is covered with warts.
It may be. But if that’s your reasoning for over drafting a Trey Lance or Pickett it would be a foolish move. You draft PLAYERS not POSITIONS.
You draft PLAYERS at POSITIONS. The QB market is generally veryhigh deamnd - so in SUpply and Demand - generally you reach for the QB Player because of the high demand at the QB POSITION is hardest to find/ most important.
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What I think it boils down to is this: what looks like a better team build for the Giants?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
If the Giants have Maye and McCarthy clearly better than Penix, then I think they have a player evaluation problem.
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With the benefit of hindsight, shouldn't the Cardinals have drafted either Rivers or Roethlisberger?
Based on them making only one SuperBowl (after they found a QB) and not winning any, you can certainly make the argument they would have been much better served with one of those QBs instead of the HoF WR.
they are both HOF QBs of course that would have been better. nobody is choosing a HOF QB over a HOF WR but that isnt the actual choice - it's a strawman.
the choice may end up being between a WR they have a top grade on vs. a QB they dont.
I don’t know, they made it work with Cousins, who’s far less mobile than Penix.
These names aren’t that hard people, we’re not asking you to spell Eluemunor.
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In comment 16451395 Go Terps said:
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What I think it boils down to is this: what looks like a better team build for the Giants?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
If the Giants have Maye and McCarthy clearly better than Penix, then I think they have a player evaluation problem.
With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
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In comment 16451400 FStubbs said:
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In comment 16451395 Go Terps said:
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What I think it boils down to is this: what looks like a better team build for the Giants?
1. (6) Penix, (47) Legette/Mcconkey/Polk
2. (6) MJH, (47) OL/DL/CB
In scenario 1 this team has a direction. In scenario 2 there is still a gaping hole that dominates the entire organization.
(1) is fine if you're sure Penix is the goods.
But if the team thinks only 2 QBs are worth a first rounder and they're gone after pick #2, then they're reaching and option (2) is better.
Either way the team's roster has improved. And if by direction you mean specifically at QB, as long as the team knows Jones is no longer the long term solution, just the guy we're stuck with right now, that's fine too. We'll get the QB.
If the Giants have Maye and McCarthy clearly better than Penix, then I think they have a player evaluation problem.
With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
Sir, that's the president of the Malik Willis in the first round fanclub to you.
These names aren’t that hard people, we’re not asking you to spell Eluemunor.
I think you mean Nabers and Penix. But no it will be one or the other. Not both.
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In comment 16451383 Ivan15 said:
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Teams draft QBs this year, consider 2024 to be 2018 all over again. Then the 2025 draft turns out looking like 2019 for the Giants with only one good QB prospect who is covered with warts.
It may be. But if that’s your reasoning for over drafting a Trey Lance or Pickett it would be a foolish move. You draft PLAYERS not POSITIONS.
You draft PLAYERS at POSITIONS. The QB market is generally veryhigh deamnd - so in SUpply and Demand - generally you reach for the QB Player because of the high demand at the QB POSITION is hardest to find/ most important.
This is true. NYG needs to be searching for their QB of the future. That's not in question. If there is a QB they love, they have to whatever they can to get him. What they should not do, however, is settle and draft a mediocre QB just because we don't like Jones. That would be foolish. You don't pass on a blue chip WR to draft a Ryan Tannehill. I realize there are a lot of fans who would be perfectly happy with that. I for one would not. I want the team to set championship level standard for their QB and keep the search open until we can find that guy. Hopefully it happens this year, but I won't sign up for settling.
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
Think of it this way —NYG would literally be the #1 pic of non QBs in a loaded draft, and at least 5 fewer teams to compete with out of the market in next years draft. Sign me up for that outcome.
Good post!
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
I would do the happy dance and take Harrison.
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In comment 16451235 Eric from BBI said:
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you imagine the QB-hungry Giants watching five QBs go before them?
Think of it this way —NYG would literally be the #1 pic of non QBs in a loaded draft, and at least 5 fewer teams to compete with out of the market in next years draft. Sign me up for that outcome.
Good post!
QBs I could see liking in next year's draft:
Dart, Ward, Sanders, Ewers. I don't like Beck at the moment. Its definitely hard to say if it will be below average or not, but it doesn't look as promising. This year's draft has been heralded as special for year's now. The biggest concern for me is I don't see us having this high of a pick for a while even if we don't add a QB. Our o line was fielding practice squad guys and we were starting a udfa qb, Daboll still got 6 wins which could have easily been 9. I domt see us having a top 10 pick with an easier schedule, Burns, improved o line play, development of our younger guys and a potentially elite pass rush. I see us being in the middle of the pack draft wise. I think Schoen also doesn't forsee us having a pick this high again. If that's how it goes, we will really be stuck in qb hell for a while. Also, we are in the driver's seat for a tradeup, not the Vikings. Schoen can get a qb he likes if he chooses to he will not be bested by the Vikings because pick 6 in this draft is very valuable with 3-4 qbs going and about 6 other blue chip players.
Trading up is not guaranteed, but losing to the Vikings and having them jump over us to pick a Maye or McCarthy this year would be heartbreaking. While reading the Vikings forum today, I noticed that no one is discussing Penix as a potential QB option. Therefore, I am unsure what to make of this asshat info. If the Vikings were to select Penix with a top 5 pick with trade up, it would certainly be surprising.
There is no guarantee that next year's QB will be any good or that we will pick in the top 10. No one expected the Giants to pick 25th in the 2023 draft.
We are at pick 6, which is closer to the top, so we should swing for the fences. According to Sy, who I trust for his QB evaluations, prioritizing the QB position is crucial this year. In 2022, we had picks 5 and 7, but the QB class was poor, so I understand Schoen's decision to wait. In 2023, Jones performed adequately, and we unexpectedly made the playoffs, causing our QB timeline to become somewhat mismanaged. Now, in 2024, we are back to square one with no QB certainty. Therefore, 2024 is the year when Schoen should pull the trigger, just like Beane did in 2018 with Josh Allen. Let's get this done and get Maye or McCarthy to Giants.
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
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In comment 16451419 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
Nice spin wanna be
Surprised you didn’t play the race card again against the ownership
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In comment 16451316 Ira said:
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don't agree that the top rated qb's are as good as most think they are.
and if they felt that way, justin fields for day 3, or minshew over brissett, or about a half dozen other moves would have made a lot more sense just to hedge. brissett has 20 tds in his last 4 seasons combined.
Again, no one knows how NE has these QBs rated. They could quite possibly have Nix, JJM and Maye in the same tier or even like Nix more. They could then get a haul and a qb they like a lot, having their cake and eating it too. If the qb pick worked, they would make out like bandits.
I don’t think NE takes a QB at 3. I think they wait to take a QB later. They have Brisette and he did a good job for them in the past. I think they go D or WR
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In comment 16451467 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451419 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
Nice spin wanna be
Surprised you didn’t play the race card again against the ownership
MBavaro doing his thing. If he isn’t defending the Front Office, he’s criticizing posters he didn’t like the first time around on the site.
How do you see that? Is this team built to compete in ‘24? I don’t think so. Don’t understand why everyone is worried about NOT competing this season. I think it is very much expected. So what? Let’s keep building the roster. I wouldn’t say it’s a throw away season but even if we were able to get the QB this year what would you actually expect in ‘24? Eric has said that a new QB will give the fanbase hope and that’s okay
But, Malik Willis!
But if you believe we had no QB with Jones then taking a shot on a QB like Willis that showed some promise to become another LJ is worth a gamble. You miss the shots you don’t take. Giants took ZERO shots after drafting Jones. THAT is far more foolish than taking a shot on MW when the answer is not in the building.
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In comment 16451475 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451467 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451419 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
Nice spin wanna be
Surprised you didn’t play the race card again against the ownership
MBavaro doing his thing. If he isn’t defending the Front Office, he’s criticizing posters he didn’t like the first time around on the site.
Stalker alert again
And you are making up false narratives that I had another handle
What I stated was true
If you don’t like what I say feel free to ignore me as opposed to paying way too
attention to what I say
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In comment 16451478 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451475 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451467 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16451419 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16451416 Mbavaro said:
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With all of your message board player evaluation skills it’s amazing that you aren’t working as a GM
If the Giants had hired me instead of that slob Gettleman in 2018 they'd be in a better place today than they currently are. It's sad that that isn't exaggeration.
Yea we could have had Malik Willis as the QB and traded Andrew Thomas for a 2nd rd pick
There would have been no need, because Lamar Jackson would be our quarterback.
Nice spin wanna be
Surprised you didn’t play the race card again against the ownership
MBavaro doing his thing. If he isn’t defending the Front Office, he’s criticizing posters he didn’t like the first time around on the site.
Stalker alert again
And you are making up false narratives that I had another handle
What I stated was true
If you don’t like what I say feel free to ignore me as opposed to paying way too
attention to what I say
JimmyGoogs/LH17/ThomasG calling anyone else out for having multiple handles is freakin hysterical. Self awareness is just one of a multitude of weaknesses he struggles with
I’d rather take Bowers at 6 than Penix. No chance the NYG take him. And if they do, he better be the 2nd coming of Steve Young.
Yes, completely stupid. Worried about Neal and his protection. Well Neal has to step up his game.