Waldman's pass throwers and pass catchers....

I had too much time on my hands over the weekend and watched videos on YouTube of all the targets for the big 3 receivers from 2023. I’m not a big college football fan so I had only seen each guy play once going in and didn’t have an opinion on who I wanted.

After watching those videos, I had them ranked the same as Waldman. I was surprised at how much I liked Odunze, he reminded me a lot of Ceedee Lamb. Harrison was tougher to evaluate though because the quarterback was significantly worse than what Nabers and Odunze had throwing to them.

Great year to have the #6 pick.

In comment 16453453 Go Terps said:

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Great year to have the #6 pick.

It really comes down to which or how many of the six are the Giants in full bloom love with. It's unlikely to be all six. When I was first reading about the six in October or November, Penix was the one who appealed to me most, but I felt he didn't fit the profile of what I considered to be a Daboll QB. But after his workout, I see in him a similarity to Jones's straightline speed (rather than the scrambling mobility of a Mahomes which Jones also lacks). A transition from Jones to Penix--if/when necessary--would not change/limit what Daboll is doing on offense.

There seems to be this perception that Daboll only likes QBs who look like Josh Allen because that his who everyone associates him with. What is that type? Really good player?

If you are talking about mobile QBs, that is virtually every OC in the league because that is where the game is now. So what is this “type” that Daboll is looking for and what is the basis for that conclusion?

Jones absolutely needs to be replaced. He is a well below average NFL starter. I think each of the top 6 will be better than Jones, but the goal needs to be to get the one Daboll thinks came become a top tier starter. I don’t think he has some special “type” he is looking for that would rule any of those 6 in or out.

Is there a link to Waldman's analysis?

In comment 16453541 Archer said:

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Is there a link to Waldman's analysis?

No, you have to pay $21.95 for it and it's 1,500 pages long. Given all the work he puts into it, I'm reluctant to post his results, but I felt it was okay to post how he ranked the top dozen or so prospects from each position group.

In comment 16453538 Mike from Ohio said:

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If you are talking about mobile QBs, that is virtually every OC in the league because that is where the game is now. So what is this “type” that Daboll is looking for and what is the basis for that conclusion?

You're right, it's more about the direction the league is moving in general and the QBs that Daboll and Kafka have worked with (Allen and Mahomes), but there are still a handful of QBs in the league who come under the heading of pocket passer, which is how I would characterize Penix vs the other five.

Does he have a top 6 ranking?

In comment 16453578 Archer said:

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Does he have a top 6 ranking?

Based on overall grades...
1. Nabers
2. Odunze
3. MHJ
4. Worthy
5. Thomas
6. Brockers

And these were the only six to receive a grade in his "Franchise Tier" category (with Nabers actually given a "Rare" designation, the only prospect to get that). But he only evaluates the QB, RB, WR, and TE positions. No defense, no OL.

It would seem that his rankings would make a compelling argument to select one of the top three receivers.

How does his rankings of the top three compare to prior years?
Is this an anomaly or does he often have players ranked rare?

In comment 16453587 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16453578 Archer said: Quote: Does he have a top 6 ranking? Based on overall grades... 1. Nabers 2. Odunze 3. MHJ 4. Worthy 5. Thomas 6. Brockers And these were the only six to receive a grade in his "Franchise Tier" category (with Nabers actually given a "Rare" designation, the only prospect to get that). But he only evaluates the QB, RB, WR, and TE positions. No defense, no OL.

Seeming more and more like AZ would want to trade down no further than 6 to ensure getting Nabers or MHJ. If I had to wager what will end up happening, I'd bet we end up trading up with AZ for JJM/Maye (the cost will be somewhere around a 2025 2nd and 3rd).

QBs ranked 1,2,3. Well, that's definitely different.

In comment 16453737 bw in dc said:

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QBs ranked 1,2,3. Well, that's definitely different.

Chris Simms has Nix and Penix as 4 and 3 too. I'm still not big on Nix for us because I think his weakness is the area of focus for Daboll's ideal offense: getting the ball downfield. Penix would be amazing if he stayed healthy (which I have a gut feeling he is going to have a healthy NFL career). I still would rather trade 2025 2 and 3 for AZ's pick and take Maye or JJM.

Giants bring him in among their 30 .

just looking at big picture ----All pro LT just got paid, RT iffy at best, in fact Still rebuilding OL new coach, players etc.. His mobility ok but fragile -cant afford to let him run it much and we definitely cant look past prior injuries, reminder the Giants lost all 3 QBs last yr to injuries... Set all time record for pressures and barely able to create passing lanes.. He has Good long ball but Dabs like mobility and intermediate accuracy -quick strike movement, All Rookies need a run game to depend on, and a TE. No more Saquaan threat and Waller is oft injured.. WR's?

This would be a disaster.

In comment 16453976 TheBlueprintNC said:

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just looking at big picture ----All pro LT just got paid, RT iffy at best, in fact Still rebuilding OL new coach, players etc.. His mobility ok but fragile -cant afford to let him run it much and we definitely cant look past prior injuries, reminder the Giants lost all 3 QBs last yr to injuries... Set all time record for pressures and barely able to create passing lanes.. He has Good long ball but Dabs like mobility and intermediate accuracy -quick strike movement, All Rookies need a run game to depend on, and a TE. No more Saquaan threat and Waller is oft injured.. WR's?

Ideally he sits for a year and hopefully the Giants will have resolved some of the issues you speak of by 2025 or 2026.

The ideal is for them to play immediately. Every day after they're drafted it's a day closer to the decision of whether or not to pay them a second contract. The more you learn about them in that time, the better.

He's already better than what we've got. Some of you are addicted to losing

In comment 16454079 Darwinian said:

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He's already better than what we've got. Some of you are addicted to losing

Judging from his comments, what Blueprint is saying is that we shouldn't draft a QB at all since his main points are that the offensive line is bad, we don't have a RB (false), and rookie QBs "need a tight end".

In comment 16454076 Go Terps said:

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The ideal is for them to play immediately. Every day after they're drafted it's a day closer to the decision of whether or not to pay them a second contract. The more you learn about them in that time, the better.

You can learn plenty about them during through practice and meetings. One of the reasons cited for the failure of so many first round QBs is that they are all too often rushed onto the field too soon. And it doesn't hurt that the list of quarterbacks who sat for at least a year includes Brady, Rodgers, Rivers, and Mahomes. I believe it's in the best interest of the QB's development to sit for a year. It's easy to pick up bad habits that are hard to shake when you're rushed into a bad situation.

In comment 16454085 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16454076 Go Terps said: Quote: The ideal is for them to play immediately. Every day after they're drafted it's a day closer to the decision of whether or not to pay them a second contract. The more you learn about them in that time, the better. You can learn plenty about them during through practice and meetings. One of the reasons cited for the failure of so many first round QBs is that they are all too often rushed onto the field too soon. And it doesn't hurt that the list of quarterbacks who sat for at least a year includes Brady, Rodgers, Rivers, and Mahomes. I believe it's in the best interest of the QB's development to sit for a year. It's easy to pick up bad habits that are hard to shake when you're rushed into a bad situation.

Philip Rivers actually sat for *two*seasons. But 2004 is so long ago. The business of football has fundamentally changed such that it's financially irresponsible as a franchise to waste two years of rookie contract time. Quarterbacks are too expensive and too much of an investment to wait that long to know what you have.

In comment 16454085 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16454076 Go Terps said: Quote: The ideal is for them to play immediately. Every day after they're drafted it's a day closer to the decision of whether or not to pay them a second contract. The more you learn about them in that time, the better. You can learn plenty about them during through practice and meetings. One of the reasons cited for the failure of so many first round QBs is that they are all too often rushed onto the field too soon. And it doesn't hurt that the list of quarterbacks who sat for at least a year includes Brady, Rodgers, Rivers, and Mahomes. I believe it's in the best interest of the QB's development to sit for a year. It's easy to pick up bad habits that are hard to shake when you're rushed into a bad situation.

Absolutely, I think sitting until a qb gets the green light is best. No need to rush it, around half a year to a year. I see where Terps is coming from with the trauma of being strung along with Daniel Jones for 6 years, but I still think it's best for a rookie QB to be eased into things while working on their understanding of the offense/nfl defenses and also honing in their mechanics.

In comment 16454085 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16454076 Go Terps said: Quote: The ideal is for them to play immediately. Every day after they're drafted it's a day closer to the decision of whether or not to pay them a second contract. The more you learn about them in that time, the better. You can learn plenty about them during through practice and meetings. One of the reasons cited for the failure of so many first round QBs is that they are all too often rushed onto the field too soon. And it doesn't hurt that the list of quarterbacks who sat for at least a year includes Brady, Rodgers, Rivers, and Mahomes. I believe it's in the best interest of the QB's development to sit for a year. It's easy to pick up bad habits that are hard to shake when you're rushed into a bad situation.

There is a longer list of QBs who didn't sit a full year and were fine. Mahomes and Rodgers were outliers. They were drafted to teams in the middle of playoff windows with good to great QBs already in place. That's not the Giants.

Very positive.

Penix moves pretty well in this clip, for a statue.
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