1. Williams
2. Daniels
3. Maye
4. Nabers -I've had Malik Nabers and Marvin Harrison Jr. closely graded throughout the draft process, but after Nabers' impressive pro-day numbers, I'm giving him the slightest of edges here. Both receivers are special.
5. JJ McCarthy - The Chargers have to decide between Marvin Harrison Jr. here or trading down, stockpiling a ton of picks and rebuilding the roster. They chose the latter, allowing the Vikings to sell the farm for J.J. McCarthy.
6. Harrison - Best-case scenario for the Giants, who stand pat and have Marvin Harrison Jr. fall in their laps.
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And now he is getting jumped in various draft mocks by Nabers who had a very "impressive" pro day. Haha.
And now he is getting jumped in various draft mocks by Nabers who had a very "impressive" pro day. Haha.
Yeah, and I also think there's a good chance, despite all the hoopla, if MHJ is available at #5, the Chargers might just take him.
If you told me they got a developmental QB in the 4th round, I think I would be less thrilled with Harrison as there is only so much he is going to do without a QB this year, and likely a rookie or stop gap in 2025.
I am not suggesting the Giants need to take a QB at #6, but they need to have a plan to get a QB in who can make this offense functional. We don’t have one of those right now.
If you told me they got a developmental QB in the 4th round, I think I would be less thrilled with Harrison as there is only so much he is going to do without a QB this year, and likely a rookie or stop gap in 2025.
I am not suggesting the Giants need to take a QB at #6, but they need to have a plan to get a QB in who can make this offense functional. We don’t have one of those right now.
Yup. Are we accumulating talent or are we building a team?
I do not have an issue if the Giants say that there are 4 (or fewer) QB's that are worthy of the 6th overall pick or anywhere close to it and choose to pass on that position for a WR if none are available and the ask for a trade up was too high. I would look at trading down rather than jumping to select MHJ, but if nobody is looking to trade up your hands are tied.
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At #6 if a QB the Giants really like is not there. However, a WR alone doesn’t move the needle much on making this team better without knowing if the Giants have a plan for a QB in later rounds. For example, if you told me they love Spencer Rattler and get him in the 2nd, I would feel much better about the WR.
If you told me they got a developmental QB in the 4th round, I think I would be less thrilled with Harrison as there is only so much he is going to do without a QB this year, and likely a rookie or stop gap in 2025.
I am not suggesting the Giants need to take a QB at #6, but they need to have a plan to get a QB in who can make this offense functional. We don’t have one of those right now.
Yup. Are we accumulating talent or are we building a team?
You don't build a team by drafting positions for the sake of drafting positions. What if the Giants have Penix and Nix evaluated as 3rd Rounders and on the same tier as guys like Rattler, Pratt, etc. and the Top 5 play out as they did in this Mock? There is no guarantee that, despite our best efforts, there is someone willing to pay fair market value or close to it to move into #6 spot. I am not saying being like Dave Gettleman and refuse to entertain trades, but sometimes teams are not offering because there is nobody that jumps out on their boards.
Don't know how accurately they will predict but the media are starting to come to some consensus about the top of the draft.
And now he is getting jumped in various draft mocks by Nabers who had a very "impressive" pro day. Haha.
Yeah, that's why. It has nothing to do with the fact Nabers had an amazing year. As did Odunze. Last year, Hyatt had the same total yards as Harrison on 10 few catches.
Once again, the "pundits" told us before the season Harrison was the best player in the draft. But Nabers had 350 more yards this year than Harrison, Odunze had 430 more yards. Heck, Thomas Jr. had just 40 fewer yards than Harrison this year and 3 more TDs. Of course Harrison's QB was the least talented of the bunch.
It's not surprising that some are saying Nabers might go before Harrison. It might not be right, or smart, but it's not surprising, now that the "experts" are actually looking at how they played this year. Just like Daniels and Maye and McCarthy have been switching places since the season ended.
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Yup. Are we accumulating talent or are we building a team?
You don't build a team by drafting positions for the sake of drafting positions.
This approach is why we are where we are at QB.
What's the plan if they don't draft a QB?
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In comment 16453601 Go Terps said:
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Yup. Are we accumulating talent or are we building a team?
You don't build a team by drafting positions for the sake of drafting positions.
This approach is why we are where we are at QB.
What's the plan if they don't draft a QB?
You go with what you have and see how things work out. Just as Rome wasn't built in a day, you can't do a real rebuild in one year. There will be other drafts and other free agency signing periods.
If you told me they got a developmental QB in the 4th round, I think I would be less thrilled with Harrison as there is only so much he is going to do without a QB this year, and likely a rookie or stop gap in 2025.
I am not suggesting the Giants need to take a QB at #6, but they need to have a plan to get a QB in who can make this offense functional. We don’t have one of those right now.
Pretty much exactly how I feel; except I don't like Rattler at all. But if Giants Brass like him, I would support it.
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In comment 16453604 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16453601 Go Terps said:
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Yup. Are we accumulating talent or are we building a team?
You don't build a team by drafting positions for the sake of drafting positions.
This approach is why we are where we are at QB.
What's the plan if they don't draft a QB?
You go with what you have and see how things work out. Just as Rome wasn't built in a day, you can't do a real rebuild in one year. There will be other drafts and other free agency signing periods.
Another year of Daniel Jones? No effin thank you.
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Harrison was the clear #1 overall WR in college football, all year. All the top NFL teams he met with at the Combine said they didn't need to see one more thing from him at a Pro Day, so he doesn't participate.
And now he is getting jumped in various draft mocks by Nabers who had a very "impressive" pro day. Haha.
Yeah, that's why. It has nothing to do with the fact Nabers had an amazing year. As did Odunze. Last year, Hyatt had the same total yards as Harrison on 10 few catches.
Once again, the "pundits" told us before the season Harrison was the best player in the draft. But Nabers had 350 more yards this year than Harrison, Odunze had 430 more yards. Heck, Thomas Jr. had just 40 fewer yards than Harrison this year and 3 more TDs. Of course Harrison's QB was the least talented of the bunch.
It's not surprising that some are saying Nabers might go before Harrison. It might not be right, or smart, but it's not surprising, now that the "experts" are actually looking at how they played this year. Just like Daniels and Maye and McCarthy have been switching places since the season ended.
It's not a knock on Nabers (or Odunze) who is great too but MHjr is getting passed because of a pro-day. Did you read the comments in the mock? That is what is silly.
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In comment 16453616 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16453604 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16453601 Go Terps said:
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Yup. Are we accumulating talent or are we building a team?
You don't build a team by drafting positions for the sake of drafting positions.
This approach is why we are where we are at QB.
What's the plan if they don't draft a QB?
You go with what you have and see how things work out. Just as Rome wasn't built in a day, you can't do a real rebuild in one year. There will be other drafts and other free agency signing periods.
Another year of Daniel Jones? No effin thank you.
Or Lock. As I said, Rome wasn't built in a day.
If you told me they got a developmental QB in the 4th round, I think I would be less thrilled with Harrison as there is only so much he is going to do without a QB this year, and likely a rookie or stop gap in 2025.
I am not suggesting the Giants need to take a QB at #6, but they need to have a plan to get a QB in who can make this offense functional. We don’t have one of those right now.
Move the needle? Are you only looking at this year? Are you ignoring the affect #1WRs generally have on QBs and offensive production?
QB or not, the Giants are going to need a #1 WR moving forward. It moves the needle.
Giants need a true upper tier WR1. Jones may be damaged goods but if that was all smoke the offense will be a lot better with improvement on the OL and WR group with him at QB. They can still address QB later in the draft if the QB's they liked are picked. Then again if needed in a year or two.
The purpose of the draft is to build a team that can compete, not acquire the highest rated guy on your board each time you pick.
QB is too important a position to hope it works out one of these next few years.
And that plan can't be that in Jones' sixth year you hope he turns into a star because that's not happening.
The team has never been just about the QB. You need a bunch of very talented players to ultimately win big. There have been many very talented teams who have "elevated" QB play.
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In comment 16453604 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16453601 Go Terps said:
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Yup. Are we accumulating talent or are we building a team?
You don't build a team by drafting positions for the sake of drafting positions.
This approach is why we are where we are at QB.
What's the plan if they don't draft a QB?
You go with what you have and see how things work out. Just as Rome wasn't built in a day, you can't do a real rebuild in one year. There will be other drafts and other free agency signing periods.
These multi year rebuilds really aren't a thing with the year to year roster turnover. Seeing how things play out with Jones/Lock is a great way for Brian Daboll and possibly Shoen to be sans employment in January 2025
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In comment 16453594 ThomasG said:
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Harrison was the clear #1 overall WR in college football, all year. All the top NFL teams he met with at the Combine said they didn't need to see one more thing from him at a Pro Day, so he doesn't participate.
And now he is getting jumped in various draft mocks by Nabers who had a very "impressive" pro day. Haha.
Yeah, that's why. It has nothing to do with the fact Nabers had an amazing year. As did Odunze. Last year, Hyatt had the same total yards as Harrison on 10 few catches.
Once again, the "pundits" told us before the season Harrison was the best player in the draft. But Nabers had 350 more yards this year than Harrison, Odunze had 430 more yards. Heck, Thomas Jr. had just 40 fewer yards than Harrison this year and 3 more TDs. Of course Harrison's QB was the least talented of the bunch.
It's not surprising that some are saying Nabers might go before Harrison. It might not be right, or smart, but it's not surprising, now that the "experts" are actually looking at how they played this year. Just like Daniels and Maye and McCarthy have been switching places since the season ended.
It's not a knock on Nabers (or Odunze) who is great too but MHjr is getting passed because of a pro-day. Did you read the comments in the mock? That is what is silly.
That's not really what it says. It doesn't say he dropped Harrison at all. It says he went to the LSU pro day and he decided to to give Nabers a slight edge because he saw Nabers up close doing things better than he expected. I'd prefer Harrison because he's better on the outside. But Wilson isn't the first to say Nabers might go before Harrison. He won't be the last. They are that closely rated.
Wilson, like many NFL reporters, don't cover college football. They spend time on Saturdays traveling and writing previews for the next day's game. I guarantee he NEVER saw Nabers or Harrison up close until the combine. The NFL writers I've know see very little college football during the season. Their draft "knowledge" comes from the pundits, just like most readers here, many of who rely on their preseason ranks until very late in the season.
It also has to be pointed out that there is also a name bias with Harrison. And he's had much more exposure playing at OSU. Most fans didn't know who Nabers, Odunze, and Thomas Jr. were until this year
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In comment 16453601 Go Terps said:
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Yup. Are we accumulating talent or are we building a team?
You don't build a team by drafting positions for the sake of drafting positions.
This approach is why we are where we are at QB.
What's the plan if they don't draft a QB?
I am not saying not draft a QB at all. If we have Penix, Nix, Pratt, and Rattler all ranked similarly wait until Day 2 to draft a QB if the Top 5 fell out as it did. Wilson was a 3rd Round pick and beat out then big FA signing Matt Flynn for Seattle's starting QB job.
The team has never been just about the QB. You need a bunch of very talented players to ultimately win big. There have been many very talented teams who have "elevated" QB play.
Strawman argument. Nobody is suggesting that you just take a QB because you need one. The argument being made is that you need to have a plan in place to get one. That could be a trade up, a second / third round developmental guy, or sell out for 2025. There just has to be some kind of plan, not “Shoot, one didn’t fall in our lap this year!”
If QBs 1-5 are gone, it's time to bank the elite offensive player, embrace the suck in 2024, say farewell to Daboll, and let the new coach pick his QB in 2025. No one knows who will rise to the top of the draft by then so to say it's only going to be Carson Beck and Ewers right now is ludicrous. No one was saying Daniels, McCarthy, or Penix would be in the top 5 pick talk in the preseason.
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In comment 16453601 Go Terps said:
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Yup. Are we accumulating talent or are we building a team?
You don't build a team by drafting positions for the sake of drafting positions.
This approach is why we are where we are at QB.
What's the plan if they don't draft a QB?
I think the plan is a faulty one:
Start Jones/Lock this year and kick the can down the road to 2025 and hope someone at QB distinguishes himself in a shitty QB crop.
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In comment 16453614 k2tampa said:
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In comment 16453594 ThomasG said:
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Harrison was the clear #1 overall WR in college football, all year. All the top NFL teams he met with at the Combine said they didn't need to see one more thing from him at a Pro Day, so he doesn't participate.
And now he is getting jumped in various draft mocks by Nabers who had a very "impressive" pro day. Haha.
Yeah, that's why. It has nothing to do with the fact Nabers had an amazing year. As did Odunze. Last year, Hyatt had the same total yards as Harrison on 10 few catches.
Once again, the "pundits" told us before the season Harrison was the best player in the draft. But Nabers had 350 more yards this year than Harrison, Odunze had 430 more yards. Heck, Thomas Jr. had just 40 fewer yards than Harrison this year and 3 more TDs. Of course Harrison's QB was the least talented of the bunch.
It's not surprising that some are saying Nabers might go before Harrison. It might not be right, or smart, but it's not surprising, now that the "experts" are actually looking at how they played this year. Just like Daniels and Maye and McCarthy have been switching places since the season ended.
It's not a knock on Nabers (or Odunze) who is great too but MHjr is getting passed because of a pro-day. Did you read the comments in the mock? That is what is silly.
That's not really what it says. It doesn't say he dropped Harrison at all. It says he went to the LSU pro day and he decided to to give Nabers a slight edge because he saw Nabers up close doing things better than he expected. I'd prefer Harrison because he's better on the outside. But Wilson isn't the first to say Nabers might go before Harrison. He won't be the last. They are that closely rated.
Wilson, like many NFL reporters, don't cover college football. They spend time on Saturdays traveling and writing previews for the next day's game. I guarantee he NEVER saw Nabers or Harrison up close until the combine. The NFL writers I've know see very little college football during the season. Their draft "knowledge" comes from the pundits, just like most readers here, many of who rely on their preseason ranks until very late in the season.
It also has to be pointed out that there is also a name bias with Harrison. And he's had much more exposure playing at OSU. Most fans didn't know who Nabers, Odunze, and Thomas Jr. were until this year
My point exactly...silly.
I think the plan is a faulty one:
Start Jones/Lock this year and kick the can down the road to 2025 and hope someone at QB distinguishes himself in a shitty QB crop.
Who knows - maybe the QB class exceeds expectations next year.
But if QB isn't the top rated position when the Giants pick, do they have to pass again?
It seems the only way some would feel comfortable drafting a QB is a slam dunk no brainer situation. I've been a Giant fan almost 40 years and I can't recall a situation lining up that way for them. Not even the 2004 draft.
The Giants are non-competitive at QB. Until that changes it doesn't matter who they draft at other positions.
Me neither. That'd be great. But if Penix or Nix can't be had in round 2, do you prefer one of them + a second round WR or MHJ + a non-QB and running out back with Jones?
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I think the plan is a faulty one:
Start Jones/Lock this year and kick the can down the road to 2025 and hope someone at QB distinguishes himself in a shitty QB crop.
Who knows - maybe the QB class exceeds expectations next year.
But if QB isn't the top rated position when the Giants pick, do they have to pass again?
It seems the only way some would feel comfortable drafting a QB is a slam dunk no brainer situation. I've been a Giant fan almost 40 years and I can't recall a situation lining up that way for them. Not even the 2004 draft.
The Giants are non-competitive at QB. Until that changes it doesn't matter who they draft at other positions.
I seem to get the sense that many posters are looking for the cleanest/perfect prospect at QB before they say they’re all in on a guy. That guy doesn’t exist. And it’s just not this year.
And now he is getting jumped in various draft mocks by Nabers who had a very "impressive" pro day. Haha.
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In comment 16453719 The_Boss said:
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I think the plan is a faulty one:
Start Jones/Lock this year and kick the can down the road to 2025 and hope someone at QB distinguishes himself in a shitty QB crop.
Who knows - maybe the QB class exceeds expectations next year.
But if QB isn't the top rated position when the Giants pick, do they have to pass again?
It seems the only way some would feel comfortable drafting a QB is a slam dunk no brainer situation. I've been a Giant fan almost 40 years and I can't recall a situation lining up that way for them. Not even the 2004 draft.
The Giants are non-competitive at QB. Until that changes it doesn't matter who they draft at other positions.
I seem to get the sense that many posters are looking for the cleanest/perfect prospect at QB before they say they’re all in on a guy. That guy doesn’t exist. And it’s just not this year.
I wouldn't say they are looking for the cleanest/perfect prospect at QB. What those opposing "QB at all cost in Round 1" are saying is that we should not be setting "better than Daniel Jones" as the bar for Round 1 but rather getting a Round 1 caliber QB. If the guy is a Day 2 talent draft that guy on Day 2 and fill other needs the Giants have with top talent in Round 1.
Plan B would be draft one of the blue chip WRs.
Where it gets interesting I think is weighing the merits of Plan B versus the cost it may end up taking to move up and secure a QBotF that they believe in.
QB is so important, we all know this, but there is a limit to what a team will reasonably pay.
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Me neither. That'd be great. But if Penix or Nix can't be had in round 2, do you prefer one of them + a second round WR or MHJ + a non-QB and running out back with Jones?
I love how it's just assumed that Nix or Penix is the better option over Jones or Lock.
You go with what you have and see how things work out. Just as Rome wasn't built in a day, you can't do a real rebuild in one year. There will be other drafts and other free agency signing periods.
The problem is you’re risking having to do that for 2025 too if they can’t add a QB
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In comment 16453733 PatersonPlank said:
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Me neither. That'd be great. But if Penix or Nix can't be had in round 2, do you prefer one of them + a second round WR or MHJ + a non-QB and running out back with Jones?
I love how it's just assumed that Nix or Penix is the better option over Jones or Lock.
Why is it assumed that Williams, Daniels, McCarthy, or Maye would be?
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In comment 16453739 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16453733 PatersonPlank said:
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Me neither. That'd be great. But if Penix or Nix can't be had in round 2, do you prefer one of them + a second round WR or MHJ + a non-QB and running out back with Jones?
I love how it's just assumed that Nix or Penix is the better option over Jones or Lock.
Why is it assumed that Williams, Daniels, McCarthy, or Maye would be?
It's not assumed by me.
secondly, their ceilings are still unknown and their potential untapped.
We already know Jones is bad. And Lock isn't much better.
The purpose of the draft is to build a team that can compete, not acquire the highest rated guy on your board each time you pick.
QB is too important a position to hope it works out one of these next few years.
Nobody thinks QB isn’t the most important position. It’s a 32 team draft and the Giants can’t just decide what they want and get it. It doesn’t work like that. If they can’t get the QB they want, a WR1 is a great addition and will move the needle going forward.
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You can’t simply follow your draft board and if you get one , great, if not, try again next year and hope it all works out. In my opinion that is ludicrous. The impact of a Nabers, Odunze or Harrison will be limited if there is nobody who can throw the ball downfield. Are we looking to be the Larry Fitzgerald lead Cardinals or the Calvin Johnson lead Lions? Supreme talents at WR whose teams could never compete because they didn’t have a QB (until the Cardinals finally brought in Kurt Warner).
The purpose of the draft is to build a team that can compete, not acquire the highest rated guy on your board each time you pick.
QB is too important a position to hope it works out one of these next few years.
Nobody thinks QB isn’t the most important position. It’s a 32 team draft and the Giants can’t just decide what they want and get it. It doesn’t work like that. If they can’t get the QB they want, a WR1 is a great addition and will move the needle going forward.
WR absolutely doesn't move the needle with the current QB room.
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You can’t simply follow your draft board and if you get one , great, if not, try again next year and hope it all works out. In my opinion that is ludicrous. The impact of a Nabers, Odunze or Harrison will be limited if there is nobody who can throw the ball downfield. Are we looking to be the Larry Fitzgerald lead Cardinals or the Calvin Johnson lead Lions? Supreme talents at WR whose teams could never compete because they didn’t have a QB (until the Cardinals finally brought in Kurt Warner).
The purpose of the draft is to build a team that can compete, not acquire the highest rated guy on your board each time you pick.
QB is too important a position to hope it works out one of these next few years.
Nobody thinks QB isn’t the most important position. It’s a 32 team draft and the Giants can’t just decide what they want and get it. It doesn’t work like that. If they can’t get the QB they want, a WR1 is a great addition and will move the needle going forward.
Everything you just posted is consistent with what I posted. I never disagreed with taking a WR at #6. I also never suggested the Giants can acquire whatever QB they want.
I am not sure what the point of your post was.
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In comment 16453638 Mike from Ohio said:
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You can’t simply follow your draft board and if you get one , great, if not, try again next year and hope it all works out. In my opinion that is ludicrous. The impact of a Nabers, Odunze or Harrison will be limited if there is nobody who can throw the ball downfield. Are we looking to be the Larry Fitzgerald lead Cardinals or the Calvin Johnson lead Lions? Supreme talents at WR whose teams could never compete because they didn’t have a QB (until the Cardinals finally brought in Kurt Warner).
The purpose of the draft is to build a team that can compete, not acquire the highest rated guy on your board each time you pick.
QB is too important a position to hope it works out one of these next few years.
Nobody thinks QB isn’t the most important position. It’s a 32 team draft and the Giants can’t just decide what they want and get it. It doesn’t work like that. If they can’t get the QB they want, a WR1 is a great addition and will move the needle going forward.
WR absolutely doesn't move the needle with the current QB room.
Bullshit. But even if that was true, the draft is about more than this year.
Bullshit. But even if that was true, the draft is about more than this year.
Correct, which is why what you may consider as forcing a QB pick is the Giants looking at the future and realizing there might not be a better option at QB in next years draft.
secondly, their ceilings are still unknown and their potential untapped.
We already know Jones is bad. And Lock isn't much better.
We already know Jones is bad? No, we don't. We know he's got an injury history, we don't know he's bad, and Lock can play in this league.
If there is a QB we love --we have to go and get him. But if we don't love the options, then the right move is keep building where we can and keep searching until we find one.
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firstly, they are cheaper.
secondly, their ceilings are still unknown and their potential untapped.
We already know Jones is bad. And Lock isn't much better.
We already know Jones is bad? No, we don't. We know he's got an injury history, we don't know he's bad, and Lock can play in this league.
Barens, what the hell do you think is going on with the Giants and scouting these QB prospects?
The Giants aren't doing all this work and activity on no less than 5 top prospects because they think Daniel Jones and Lock are good. And don't use injury as an excuse as Jones doesn't have a career-altering injury and the franchise is saying he is ahead of schedule on recovery too.
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In comment 16453786 Darwinian said:
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firstly, they are cheaper.
secondly, their ceilings are still unknown and their potential untapped.
We already know Jones is bad. And Lock isn't much better.
We already know Jones is bad? No, we don't. We know he's got an injury history, we don't know he's bad, and Lock can play in this league.
Barens, what the hell do you think is going on with the Giants and scouting these QB prospects?
The Giants aren't doing all this work and activity on no less than 5 top prospects because they think Daniel Jones and Lock are good. And don't use injury as an excuse as Jones doesn't have a career-altering injury and the franchise is saying he is ahead of schedule on recovery too.
I'm not planting my flag on Jones or nothing, but this idea that he sucks is bullshit IMO. I do think he is still a QB they can win with, but if they go in another direction, then so be it.
If they trade up for Maye, is this year going to be a throwaway year for you?
We can only speculate on what their thinking is. What I'm positive about if they go quarterback somewhere in the first six they better get it right or their jobs will be on the line. Awful football could haunt us for many seasons.
If there is a QB we love --we have to go and get him. But if we don't love the options, then the right move is keep building where we can and keep searching until we find one.
If the Giants don't love any of these options I'd have to ask what options they would love. Are we waiting to be picking #1 in a draft with the next John Elway? The Giants haven't picked #1 since 1965.
Look out over the landscape of the league, and you'll see that most of the top quarterbacks were picked in uncertain circumstances. Only Burrow and Murray were picked #1 overall and got a second contract with the team that paid them.
There's always going to be a reason not to draft a QB. A better player at another position, a steep price to trade up...there's always going to be risk. I expect 2 or 3 of these 6 QBs will be complete busts.
But until the NFL fundamentally changes the rules, this is the model. The Giants don't have a QB. They're picking #6 in a QB heavy draft. If you're looking for better circumstances you may be waiting a long time.
If there is a QB we love --we have to go and get him. But if we don't love the options, then the right move is keep building where we can and keep searching until we find one.
We don’t know there will be or that they’ll have the opportunity to get one.
It’s clear there are QBs they like this year and will have the opportunity to get. You can’t pass this year thinking you’ll get one next year. What happens if you don’t then?
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In comment 16453856 barens said:
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In comment 16453786 Darwinian said:
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firstly, they are cheaper.
secondly, their ceilings are still unknown and their potential untapped.
We already know Jones is bad. And Lock isn't much better.
We already know Jones is bad? No, we don't. We know he's got an injury history, we don't know he's bad, and Lock can play in this league.
Barens, what the hell do you think is going on with the Giants and scouting these QB prospects?
The Giants aren't doing all this work and activity on no less than 5 top prospects because they think Daniel Jones and Lock are good. And don't use injury as an excuse as Jones doesn't have a career-altering injury and the franchise is saying he is ahead of schedule on recovery too.
I'm not planting my flag on Jones or nothing, but this idea that he sucks is bullshit IMO. I do think he is still a QB they can win with, but if they go in another direction, then so be it.
If they trade up for Maye, is this year going to be a throwaway year for you?
I don't know who you are trying to convince....maybe yourself? You seem more upset about the word used to describe DJ versus what is happening to his future in NY. The Giants do not think they can win Jones, or at least not anywhere near enough, otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they are which is find his replacement asap.
He isn't Eli Manning who played 16 season and was nearing 40 years old. DJ is 26 years old and has 60 games played. And his future as a starting QB in this league could very well be over at this point. Relative to what teams are looking for which is a QB that can lead them to a championship...yes, he is bad.
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People are drooling over Daniels who wasn't on the radar last year, and JJM who wasn't this much on the radar literally after the season ended. The argument that we must move on a QB at all cost who wasn't on the radar a year ago because no QBs in next year's draft are currently on the radar makes zero sense as an argument. It's an argument that defeats itself.
If there is a QB we love --we have to go and get him. But if we don't love the options, then the right move is keep building where we can and keep searching until we find one.
If the Giants don't love any of these options I'd have to ask what options they would love. Are we waiting to be picking #1 in a draft with the next John Elway? The Giants haven't picked #1 since 1965.
Look out over the landscape of the league, and you'll see that most of the top quarterbacks were picked in uncertain circumstances. Only Burrow and Murray were picked #1 overall and got a second contract with the team that paid them.
There's always going to be a reason not to draft a QB. A better player at another position, a steep price to trade up...there's always going to be risk. I expect 2 or 3 of these 6 QBs will be complete busts.
But until the NFL fundamentally changes the rules, this is the model. The Giants don't have a QB. They're picking #6 in a QB heavy draft. If you're looking for better circumstances you may be waiting a long time.
You openly admit that 2-3 will be complete busts. What if the ones the Giants project to be those 2-3 are the only ones available at 6?
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People are drooling over Daniels who wasn't on the radar last year, and JJM who wasn't this much on the radar literally after the season ended. The argument that we must move on a QB at all cost who wasn't on the radar a year ago because no QBs in next year's draft are currently on the radar makes zero sense as an argument. It's an argument that defeats itself.
If there is a QB we love --we have to go and get him. But if we don't love the options, then the right move is keep building where we can and keep searching until we find one.
We don’t know there will be or that they’ll have the opportunity to get one.
It’s clear there are QBs they like this year and will have the opportunity to get. You can’t pass this year thinking you’ll get one next year. What happens if you don’t then?
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In comment 16453856 barens said:
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In comment 16453786 Darwinian said:
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firstly, they are cheaper.
secondly, their ceilings are still unknown and their potential untapped.
We already know Jones is bad. And Lock isn't much better.
We already know Jones is bad? No, we don't. We know he's got an injury history, we don't know he's bad, and Lock can play in this league.
Barens, what the hell do you think is going on with the Giants and scouting these QB prospects?
The Giants aren't doing all this work and activity on no less than 5 top prospects because they think Daniel Jones and Lock are good. And don't use injury as an excuse as Jones doesn't have a career-altering injury and the franchise is saying he is ahead of schedule on recovery too.
I'm not planting my flag on Jones or nothing, but this idea that he sucks is bullshit IMO. I do think he is still a QB they can win with, but if they go in another direction, then so be it.
If they trade up for Maye, is this year going to be a throwaway year for you?
Jones sucks. His passing metrics, even in his *good* years are woeful. You'll never get far with Jones. He's Bortles, Osweiler, Trubisky. A backup.
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In comment 16453871 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16453856 barens said:
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In comment 16453786 Darwinian said:
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firstly, they are cheaper.
secondly, their ceilings are still unknown and their potential untapped.
We already know Jones is bad. And Lock isn't much better.
We already know Jones is bad? No, we don't. We know he's got an injury history, we don't know he's bad, and Lock can play in this league.
Barens, what the hell do you think is going on with the Giants and scouting these QB prospects?
The Giants aren't doing all this work and activity on no less than 5 top prospects because they think Daniel Jones and Lock are good. And don't use injury as an excuse as Jones doesn't have a career-altering injury and the franchise is saying he is ahead of schedule on recovery too.
I'm not planting my flag on Jones or nothing, but this idea that he sucks is bullshit IMO. I do think he is still a QB they can win with, but if they go in another direction, then so be it.
If they trade up for Maye, is this year going to be a throwaway year for you?
I don't know who you are trying to convince....maybe yourself? You seem more upset about the word used to describe DJ versus what is happening to his future in NY. The Giants do not think they can win Jones, or at least not anywhere near enough, otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they are which is find his replacement asap.
He isn't Eli Manning who played 16 season and was nearing 40 years old. DJ is 26 years old and has 60 games played. And his future as a starting QB in this league could very well be over at this point. Relative to what teams are looking for which is a QB that can lead them to a championship...yes, he is bad.
Like I said, if they move on from Jones, so be it. But you seem just as upset that I think Jones has gotten a really bad deal here. No, he hasn't been Eli Manning, who also had his share of bad times here, especially when the talent around him waned.
And whatever the Giants brass decide to do, and yes, I fully expect them to do their due diligence and scout every single player as they should, but they also did sign Jones to a big contract for a reason. Of course they can move on from him, but they wouldn't have signed him to that deal if they thought he was bad.
But I ask again, if the Giants trade up for someone like Maye, and he has a terrible year, are you going to be patient?
Giants need a true upper tier WR1. Jones may be damaged goods but if that was all smoke the offense will be a lot better with improvement on the OL and WR group with him at QB. They can still address QB later in the draft if the QB's they liked are picked. Then again if needed in a year or two.
The downside to keeping Jones beyond this season is his cap hit in 25'. Not drafting/signing his replacement likely means having to restructure him and extending our commitment. That could be detrimental if his play/health does not improve from the 23' season benchmark.
But if they like them more than they currently like anyone from next years class, they should make a move to get one.
McCarthy is my QB1(Not the highest ceiling but the most likely to succeed in the NFL)
I don't care for Nix but love Penix.
Nix could end up the best pro and I would not be shocked.
I would be shocked if any of those WRs bust.
So, what do you do?
I'm taking the receiver if my homework is good and I know I can get back into the first for a QB. From a risk management standpoint the Giants must draft a QB high this year. Otherwise QB at 6.
QB have a high bust rate you say?
YUP
That means we may have to swing more than once.(probably, let that sink in)
We need to start swinging this year.
Relative to Maye or another rookie, I fully expect struggles and some painful games. I also expect if they scout properly and help develop the QB then he will show better in year 2 and then year 3. That's the window I would give to determine if we have a QB.
I have no more patience for Jones because it is plainly obvious after 5 years/60 games that he isn't getting better and I don't believe given more time he is worth keeping, at all.
Yup. Can't be too unhappy with any of them myself.
I'm not in love with McCarthy. I'm not in love with Maye either. I think this is a Williams/Penix/Daniels draft. But I may be wrong; I'm not a talent evaluator.
But I'd rather the Giants traded up to get one of McCarthy or Maye than sit tight and draft a wide receiver.
Drafting a wide receiver is what you do if it's business as usual. The Giants don't have a quarterback and have ignored the position for a decade. This is not business as usual.
I am not certain of the rules with his injury waiver and if he needs to be cleared first or not.
Relative to Maye or another rookie, I fully expect struggles and some painful games. I also expect if they scout properly and help develop the QB then he will show better in year 2 and then year 3. That's the window I would give to determine if we have a QB.
I have no more patience for Jones because it is plainly obvious after 5 years/60 games that he isn't getting better and I don't believe given more time he is worth keeping, at all.
You might be right, but to sit there and tell me I don't get it? Nothing has happened yet, WTF are you talking about? If this is all based on interviews, they might be taking a WR with all of these interviews you keep talking about.
To me, if they take a QB early, great, if they don't, also great, that's my view.
If this draft had a Myles Garrett or Nick Bosa it might give me more pause, but a WR?
If the Giants march out Daniel Jones in 2024 Marvin Harrison will have 3 or 4 TDs and he won't break 1000 yards receiving. And the offense will still be nowhere.
A WR on this team is a coat of paint on a car with no engine.
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on a wait-and-see approach if Jones can become the guy...they are interviewing his potential replacements as we speak. They are telling you at point-blank range Barens that Jones isn't what they want.
Relative to Maye or another rookie, I fully expect struggles and some painful games. I also expect if they scout properly and help develop the QB then he will show better in year 2 and then year 3. That's the window I would give to determine if we have a QB.
I have no more patience for Jones because it is plainly obvious after 5 years/60 games that he isn't getting better and I don't believe given more time he is worth keeping, at all.
You might be right, but to sit there and tell me I don't get it? Nothing has happened yet, WTF are you talking about? If this is all based on interviews, they might be taking a WR with all of these interviews you keep talking about.
To me, if they take a QB early, great, if they don't, also great, that's my view.
They may not be able to draft who they want, but that doesn't have anything to do with the effort they are putting in to find his replacement. That's their mindset...that DJ needs to be removed.
If this draft had a Myles Garrett or Nick Bosa it might give me more pause, but a WR?
If the Giants march out Daniel Jones in 2024 Marvin Harrison will have 3 or 4 TDs and he won't break 1000 yards receiving. And the offense will still be nowhere.
A WR on this team is a coat of paint on a car with no engine.
Because all of the other WR's that have moved on from the Giants have produced so much with other teams?
That is how we got Saquon Barkley. Positional importance needs to be factored in too.
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If Harrison is there at 6 he will be the best player available. Take him and do not think twice.
That is how we got Saquon Barkley. Positional importance needs to be factored in too.
I would argue he was not BPA at 2 and RB is the one position you do not draft in the top 5 99 times out of 100. We should have drafted Quentin Nelson at 2 as he fit BPA and need.
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In comment 16454031 BlueHurricane said:
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If Harrison is there at 6 he will be the best player available. Take him and do not think twice.
That is how we got Saquon Barkley. Positional importance needs to be factored in too.
I would argue he was not BPA at 2 and RB is the one position you do not draft in the top 5 99 times out of 100. We should have drafted Quentin Nelson at 2 as he fit BPA and need.
Should have traded down, but Gettleman insisted Barkley was 'blessed by God'
We'd have been better off drafting Darnold for Christ's sake.
We'd have been better off drafting Darnold for Christ's sake.
Now you are getting stupid with that statement....
But following this thread shows a difference in panic between posters. I absolutely know Jones is done and I want a QB. Unlike most, I really like Nix and don't think much of Maye. I think I like Nix more than McCarthy, too.
But as you always say, they need to have a plan. Schoen likely does have several. Perhaps they feel Penix will be available in the 2nd round if they cannot land the one or two QBs they like at #6.
IDK, perhaps you trade with the Vikings for 11 and 23 and take Nix or Penix at 11 and a WR(or OG) at 23.
But if they *had* drafted Darnold, I don't see a timeline where they don't play it exactly like they did with Jones.
But if they *had* drafted Darnold, I don't see a timeline where they don't play it exactly like they did with Jones.
That's true. Drafting Darnold wouldn't have cured stupid.
Pre-draft, the #1 WR was Harrison. What are the reasons for him no longer being #1?
Put the reasons on paper and see if they make sense. They don't to me.
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In comment 16453601 Go Terps said:
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Yup. Are we accumulating talent or are we building a team?
You don't build a team by drafting positions for the sake of drafting positions.
This approach is why we are where we are at QB.
What's the plan if they don't draft a QB?
Avoid BBI until next season.
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and you would have moved on already, I see his point.
But if they *had* drafted Darnold, I don't see a timeline where they don't play it exactly like they did with Jones.
That's true. Drafting Darnold wouldn't have cured stupid.
Actually there is an alternate timeline where the Giants move on from Darnold after 2 years.
Don't forget that the Giants absolutely LOVED Hebert. Obviously they wouldn't have drafted him in 2020 after Jones had a decent rookie season.
But if Darnold had back-to-back shit seasons in his first 2 years, the Giants might have actually been tempted to draft Herbert... the QB they really wanted when they settled for Jones in 2019.
We'll be getting an explosive WR or top QB prospect. Can't ask for more than that. There are no guarantees if we trade up for "our guy", except that we're really gonna really miss that first round pick next year if we have a shitty season.
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We'd have been better off drafting Darnold for Christ's sake.
Now you are getting stupid with that statement....
But following this thread shows a difference in panic between posters. I absolutely know Jones is done and I want a QB. Unlike most, I really like Nix and don't think much of Maye. I think I like Nix more than McCarthy, too.
But as you always say, they need to have a plan. Schoen likely does have several. Perhaps they feel Penix will be available in the 2nd round if they cannot land the one or two QBs they like at #6.
IDK, perhaps you trade with the Vikings for 11 and 23 and take Nix or Penix at 11 and a WR(or OG) at 23.
If the Giants had drafted Darnold they probably move on and draft Herbert two years later.