I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
AZ has a lot of picks, but I'm sure they wouldn't turn down another, if it still allowed them to pick a great WR. The fact they are interested in Nabers as well as Harrison Jr. helps the Giants cause. On the other hand LA probably might take the Vikings offer over a deal with the Giants.
I know most are banging the table to just draft a QB (the anyone is better than Jones crowd) but IMO there is a drop off of talent after the top 2 at most 3 QBs.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
Teams are more likely to deal with the Giants because they have a better idea of who will be available to them at #6, and probably a better player. Minny will have to make them an offer they can't refuse in order to entice them to drop that far to #11. The Giants don't need to go crazy here. New England desperately needs a QB, but for the right deal, they might be enticed to do it.
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
RE: Worst thing is to trade up for the 4th best QB
I know most are banging the table to just draft a QB (the anyone is better than Jones crowd) but IMO there is a drop off of talent after the top 2 at most 3 QBs.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
Again, what we fans don't know if the 4th QB left is actually the 4th QB on the Giants draft board or is their 2nd or 3rd perhaps.
I know most are banging the table to just draft a QB (the anyone is better than Jones crowd) but IMO there is a drop off of talent after the top 2 at most 3 QBs.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
The thing is Larry I don't think there's a consensus on the order of the 3 best. We may like JD and JJM the best and NE may like JD and Maye
I know most are banging the table to just draft a QB (the anyone is better than Jones crowd) but IMO there is a drop off of talent after the top 2 at most 3 QBs.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
The thing is Larry I don't think there's a consensus on the order of the 3 best. We may like JD and JJM the best and NE may like JD and Maye
I know most are banging the table to just draft a QB (the anyone is better than Jones crowd) but IMO there is a drop off of talent after the top 2 at most 3 QBs.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
Josh Allen was the 4th QB. What you are some media guy rates someone is irrelevant. It only matters what the Giants think and what he becomes
He's awkward as hell and provides nothing. Oh, the Giants are the first team on his list to move up? No shit. None of the teams above them are moving up.
Holy shit. You did it Marc. This is the case cracker, the Giants moving up.
for this to be over. So many holes on this team and the question is which one to plug. Too many times we've seen QBs overvalued. JJM reminds me of Mac Jones--a winner in college on a national champion, a decent arm, smart, young still at age 21 but not enough pass attempts to compare to other top QBs.
RE: RE: Worst thing is to trade up for the 4th best QB
I know most are banging the table to just draft a QB (the anyone is better than Jones crowd) but IMO there is a drop off of talent after the top 2 at most 3 QBs.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
Josh Allen was the 4th QB. What you are some media guy rates someone is irrelevant. It only matters what the Giants think and what he becomes
Dan Marino was the 6th QB. Maybe getting the right QB doesn’t always mean getting the first QB?
And some develop differently but IMO after the top 2 or 3 the bust rate gets higher especially with the level of access scouts have today.
I am all in if you could trade up for Williams or Daniels I get it don't see how the Giants can have McCarthy rated higher than those guys .
It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
And some develop differently but IMO after the top 2 or 3 the bust rate gets higher especially with the level of access scouts have today.
I am all in if you could trade up for Williams or Daniels I get it don't see how the Giants can have McCarthy rated higher than those guys .
The trade up with AZ could be done for a 2025 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107. That's not too much to pay for a high upside guy with franchise qb potential. I agree that trading up to 3 for a king's ransom would seem exorbant. A trade up to 4 would be reasonable given Nabers and MHJ both have very high grades, AZ would be likely to make this trade too.
competition to move up and one team is willing to give up a lot more which makes others back out. We'll see.
Ross was terrible with the Giants and a big mouth.
If AZ wants Nabers or MHJ, then it doesn't matter that Minnesota would offer more picks. The 2025 2nd and 3rd they would receive would just be a cherry on top for their blue chip receiver selection.
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
My guess is Minnesota blows their load to move up with New England.
If the quarterback New York covets is still available, I suspect they can organize a deal with Arizona.
Imagine the draft goes:
1) Williams
2) Daniels
3) JJM
Arizona could move back to 6 and be guaranteed one of Nabers, MHJr, or Odunze and pick up some combination of 47, 70, and a first next year.
2025 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107 in addition to pick 6 would do the job. And I think Minnesota covets Maye, so if they pay the king's ransom to NE I believe it's Maye that goes 3rd.
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
Regardless of what Minnesota offers, a #2 and #3 in 2025 won't get us to #4 IMO. We'd have to give up #47 and our #2 next year at a minimum to get Arizona to drop to #6. And that #2 would have to be our #1 next year to beat that offer from Minnesota. If Schoen does that, he better be right, or he will be fired. I agree that trading down to #11 means that Arizona misses out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, but they could still get Brian Thomas, Jr. at #11.
Another possibility is that they reject the trade offers from the Giants and Minnesota. The Giants don't offer enough to make them risk losing their #1 WR, a risk they don't need to take because they already have a ton of draft capital. That draft capital and losing out on all the "big three" WRs is why they also reject trade overtures from Minnesota.
It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
So have a few others in this thread, and that is if the Giants love a QB that gets to pick four, nyg will get him, either by trade up or staying at 6. If that QB doesn’t make it to pick four, nyg take the wr. To me it’s that simple. No team is trading into the top three if you believe the three top teams are all going QB. So it all comes down to if that QB makes it to four….
The only way the Vikings are going to trade to pick five or six for a QB, is if the Giants don’t want that same QB.
Like they each have their favorites. I know Daboll likes his pass happy system but he has to be full aware of the QB situation. Short and long term. If they differ on QB's, I get it, but for a full different position is kind of strange to me.
but the Patriots seem far from set on picking a QB. I live in Rhode Island, the talk here among sports radio and the fans is, they are so far away from competing they need to build up the roster first. There's a lot of swell for moving down for extra picks.
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
This is the only option is see as viable if AZ is willing to move back. It is also the amount of draft capital I would want to give up to get QB4.
AZ gets pick 6, 70, and 2025 2nd pick, we get our QB and keep pick 47 to get a good WR, and keep 2025 1st round pick.
Thanks. I thought someone else reported someone who knew Dabs and said he and Schoen had different preferences. But your probably right, I may have confused with Allbright thread.
Jerod Mayo, the Patriots new head coach gushed at a recent interview in regards to the former Tar Heel QB: “He brings a lot of energy. You can tell he has that leadership ability. And also the exciting part about a guy like Drake Maye is the ceiling. Like, there is really no ceiling with a guy like that. Now, in saying that, when we’re trying to put together this roster, I know a lot of people look at the ceiling, but you also got to kind of see how low is the floor? And I would say that a guy like Drake Maye, he has a lot of room to grow. He’s a young guy. Honestly, he hasn’t played football nearly as much as these other guys. So that’s definitely something that we’ve looked at, but he definitely is going to develop.”
And GBN on Penix....
Quote:
At the same time, there is an even more interesting story developing regarding Washington’s Michael Penix who until literally just a couple of days ago was being thought of as a likely early second rounder, in large part because of his age – he’s already 24 – and rather long injury history which includes a couple of ACLs. However, the narrative changed when the Giants, who have the 6th pick but were looking increasingly like they were going to miss out on the top 4 QBs this year, opted not to attend Maye’s pro day last week, but pivoted and headed west to take in Penix’ workout at Washington. For the record, the Giants also took Penix out to dinner after his pro day and will have him in for one of their ’30’ visits. That has left Giants fans wondering how the team was actually going to draft Penix as he still doesn’t look like a particularly good value at #6 and certainly won’t last until the Giants pick in the middle of the second round. However, the Giants are not the only team showing a recent interest in Penix as he’ll also have visits with Minnesota, Denver and Las Vegas. And for those who haven’t been paying attention or have been out of the universe of late, those three teams, which have the 11th, 12th and 13th picks respectively, have, like the Giants, been exploring their options to get up into the first 4-5 picks in order to take one of the top 4 QBs. What does it mean? Who knows but it clearly is something to watch over the next few weeks.
It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
Regardless of what Minnesota offers, a #2 and #3 in 2025 won't get us to #4 IMO. We'd have to give up #47 and our #2 next year at a minimum to get Arizona to drop to #6. And that #2 would have to be our #1 next year to beat that offer from Minnesota. If Schoen does that, he better be right, or he will be fired. I agree that trading down to #11 means that Arizona misses out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, but they could still get Brian Thomas, Jr. at #11.
Another possibility is that they reject the trade offers from the Giants and Minnesota. The Giants don't offer enough to make them risk losing their #1 WR, a risk they don't need to take because they already have a ton of draft capital. That draft capital and losing out on all the "big three" WRs is why they also reject trade overtures from Minnesota.
These guys are super accurate on their proprietary trade equation/chart:
202t 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107 would get it done IF AZ likes both Nabers and MHJ highly. If they are in love with MHJ then they won't trade down, I suspect they will like them both a lot. Link - ( New Window )
It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
Regardless of what Minnesota offers, a #2 and #3 in 2025 won't get us to #4 IMO. We'd have to give up #47 and our #2 next year at a minimum to get Arizona to drop to #6. And that #2 would have to be our #1 next year to beat that offer from Minnesota. If Schoen does that, he better be right, or he will be fired. I agree that trading down to #11 means that Arizona misses out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, but they could still get Brian Thomas, Jr. at #11.
Another possibility is that they reject the trade offers from the Giants and Minnesota. The Giants don't offer enough to make them risk losing their #1 WR, a risk they don't need to take because they already have a ton of draft capital. That draft capital and losing out on all the "big three" WRs is why they also reject trade overtures from Minnesota.
These guys are super accurate on their proprietary trade equation/chart:
202t 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107 would get it done IF AZ likes both Nabers and MHJ highly. If they are in love with MHJ then they won't trade down, I suspect they will like them both a lot. Link - ( New Window )
Trade charts are largely irrelevant if the team trying to trade up is doing so for a QB. The team trying to trade up typically has to substantially overpay beyond what a trade chart says is fair compensation. That amount would be even greater in this situation because Arizona might have another offer from Minnesota.
But I also think we would have to include #47 in any trade package, unless we offered our #1 next year. Trying to keep #47 by offering a future second and third won't be enough IMO. Future picks are typically discounted by a round, and nobody knows where we would be picking next year.
I do agree that Arizona is our most likely trade partner. The question is how much we'd have to give up to get to #4.
It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
By "5 solid camps" do you mean five prospects?
yes.
Hmm, MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, JJM and Maye I presume?
Williams, Maye, Daniels, MHJ are the 4 locks, question is whether JJ or Nabers is next, I’d guess Nabers
It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
By "5 solid camps" do you mean five prospects?
yes.
Hmm, MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, JJM and Maye I presume?
Williams, Maye, Daniels, MHJ are the 4 locks, question is whether JJ or Nabers is next, I’d guess Nabers
There's no Williams possibility and the Daniels possibility is slim to none. JJM has been linked to us in every way possible, he us definitely one of the "camps".
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
Regardless of what Minnesota offers, a #2 and #3 in 2025 won't get us to #4 IMO. We'd have to give up #47 and our #2 next year at a minimum to get Arizona to drop to #6. And that #2 would have to be our #1 next year to beat that offer from Minnesota. If Schoen does that, he better be right, or he will be fired. I agree that trading down to #11 means that Arizona misses out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, but they could still get Brian Thomas, Jr. at #11.
Another possibility is that they reject the trade offers from the Giants and Minnesota. The Giants don't offer enough to make them risk losing their #1 WR, a risk they don't need to take because they already have a ton of draft capital. That draft capital and losing out on all the "big three" WRs is why they also reject trade overtures from Minnesota.
These guys are super accurate on their proprietary trade equation/chart:
202t 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107 would get it done IF AZ likes both Nabers and MHJ highly. If they are in love with MHJ then they won't trade down, I suspect they will like them both a lot. Link - ( New Window )
Trade charts are largely irrelevant if the team trying to trade up is doing so for a QB. The team trying to trade up typically has to substantially overpay beyond what a trade chart says is fair compensation. That amount would be even greater in this situation because Arizona might have another offer from Minnesota.
But I also think we would have to include #47 in any trade package, unless we offered our #1 next year. Trying to keep #47 by offering a future second and third won't be enough IMO. Future picks are typically discounted by a round, and nobody knows where we would be picking next year.
I do agree that Arizona is our most likely trade partner. The question is how much we'd have to give up to get to #4.
Did you read the article? Their information is proprietary. It's not a chart you can see, they have their own formula and it's specifically for modern values related to top picks for QBs.
I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
Regardless of what Minnesota offers, a #2 and #3 in 2025 won't get us to #4 IMO. We'd have to give up #47 and our #2 next year at a minimum to get Arizona to drop to #6. And that #2 would have to be our #1 next year to beat that offer from Minnesota. If Schoen does that, he better be right, or he will be fired. I agree that trading down to #11 means that Arizona misses out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, but they could still get Brian Thomas, Jr. at #11.
Another possibility is that they reject the trade offers from the Giants and Minnesota. The Giants don't offer enough to make them risk losing their #1 WR, a risk they don't need to take because they already have a ton of draft capital. That draft capital and losing out on all the "big three" WRs is why they also reject trade overtures from Minnesota.
These guys are super accurate on their proprietary trade equation/chart:
202t 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107 would get it done IF AZ likes both Nabers and MHJ highly. If they are in love with MHJ then they won't trade down, I suspect they will like them both a lot. Link - ( New Window )
Trade charts are largely irrelevant if the team trying to trade up is doing so for a QB. The team trying to trade up typically has to substantially overpay beyond what a trade chart says is fair compensation. That amount would be even greater in this situation because Arizona might have another offer from Minnesota.
But I also think we would have to include #47 in any trade package, unless we offered our #1 next year. Trying to keep #47 by offering a future second and third won't be enough IMO. Future picks are typically discounted by a round, and nobody knows where we would be picking next year.
I do agree that Arizona is our most likely trade partner. The question is how much we'd have to give up to get to #4.
They aren't discounted by a round, they are valued back of that round picks though.
Teams are more likely to deal with the Giants because they have a better idea of who will be available to them at #6, and probably a better player. Minny will have to make them an offer they can't refuse in order to entice them to drop that far to #11. The Giants don't need to go crazy here. New England desperately needs a QB, but for the right deal, they might be enticed to do it.
It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
By "5 solid camps" do you mean five prospects?
yes.
Hmm, MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, JJM and Maye I presume?
Williams, Maye, Daniels, MHJ are the 4 locks, question is whether JJ or Nabers is next, I’d guess Nabers
There's no Williams possibility and the Daniels possibility is slim to none. JJM has been linked to us in every way possible, he us definitely one of the "camps".
He said two distinct paths, each with their respective camps, 5 camps total. My read:
Path 1 - Trade up for QB. This might have camps for trade w/NE for Maye and trade w/Az for JJM.
Path 2: Stay at 6. This would have camp for Nabers and Odunze, assuming MHJ is gone. The last camp is also in the stay at 6 path but would take a QB over the WRs if one fell (JJM for instance).
Path 1: Trade up for Maye (Camp 1) or McCarthy (Camp 2)
Path 2: Don't trade up (which could include a trade back) and pick Nabors (Camp 3), Odunze (Camp 4) or McCarthy/Maye at 6 or pick Brian Thomas (Camp 5) at a trade back spot if none of the three aforementioned are there.
Based on what I've read about MHJ, I don't think the Giants are as high on him as others think because he is a not speed guy. Schoen has mentioned about wanting speed guys at the skill positions on offense. Nabers ran a 4.35 40, Odunze ran a 4.45 and Thomas ran a 4.33.
What I am curious about is if they go WR at 6, what is the plan at QB? Is it Pennix at 47 (or a trade up into the back of Round 1) or is it punting to 2025?
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
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I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
AZ has a lot of picks, but I'm sure they wouldn't turn down another, if it still allowed them to pick a great WR. The fact they are interested in Nabers as well as Harrison Jr. helps the Giants cause. On the other hand LA probably might take the Vikings offer over a deal with the Giants.
Not so sure that is true. They are a multi year rebuild.. Might decide to reload talent and picks then target a QB in 25 (draft or Fa)
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They need one more than we do. But I feel we will have a choice at the 4th one to come off the board if Giants want to go that way.
Not so sure that is true. They are a multi year rebuild.. Might decide to reload talent and picks then target a QB in 25 (draft or Fa)
I still think they stay put at #3, but they are going to receive a kings ransom in draft picks if they did trade out.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
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I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
Again, what we fans don't know if the 4th QB left is actually the 4th QB on the Giants draft board or is their 2nd or 3rd perhaps.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
If the quarterback New York covets is still available, I suspect they can organize a deal with Arizona.
Imagine the draft goes:
1) Williams
2) Daniels
3) JJM
Arizona could move back to 6 and be guaranteed one of Nabers, MHJr, or Odunze and pick up some combination of 47, 70, and a first next year.
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I know most are banging the table to just draft a QB (the anyone is better than Jones crowd) but IMO there is a drop off of talent after the top 2 at most 3 QBs.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
The thing is Larry I don't think there's a consensus on the order of the 3 best. We may like JD and JJM the best and NE may like JD and Maye
and I don't want the 4th QB either...
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
Josh Allen was the 4th QB. What you are some media guy rates someone is irrelevant. It only matters what the Giants think and what he becomes
Ross was terrible with the Giants and a big mouth.
Holy shit. You did it Marc. This is the case cracker, the Giants moving up.
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I know most are banging the table to just draft a QB (the anyone is better than Jones crowd) but IMO there is a drop off of talent after the top 2 at most 3 QBs.
I know we don't think it can get worse but it can, if they draft the wrong QB and expend additional assets to do it.
Josh Allen was the 4th QB. What you are some media guy rates someone is irrelevant. It only matters what the Giants think and what he becomes
Dan Marino was the 6th QB. Maybe getting the right QB doesn’t always mean getting the first QB?
I am all in if you could trade up for Williams or Daniels I get it don't see how the Giants can have McCarthy rated higher than those guys .
I am all in if you could trade up for Williams or Daniels I get it don't see how the Giants can have McCarthy rated higher than those guys .
The trade up with AZ could be done for a 2025 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107. That's not too much to pay for a high upside guy with franchise qb potential. I agree that trading up to 3 for a king's ransom would seem exorbant. A trade up to 4 would be reasonable given Nabers and MHJ both have very high grades, AZ would be likely to make this trade too.
Ross was terrible with the Giants and a big mouth.
If AZ wants Nabers or MHJ, then it doesn't matter that Minnesota would offer more picks. The 2025 2nd and 3rd they would receive would just be a cherry on top for their blue chip receiver selection.
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In comment 16454139 AcidTest said:
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I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
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In comment 16454148 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16454139 AcidTest said:
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I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
AZ would be the only path to the 4th QB.
If the quarterback New York covets is still available, I suspect they can organize a deal with Arizona.
Imagine the draft goes:
1) Williams
2) Daniels
3) JJM
Arizona could move back to 6 and be guaranteed one of Nabers, MHJr, or Odunze and pick up some combination of 47, 70, and a first next year.
2025 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107 in addition to pick 6 would do the job. And I think Minnesota covets Maye, so if they pay the king's ransom to NE I believe it's Maye that goes 3rd.
I don’t think people get this…
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In comment 16454148 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16454139 AcidTest said:
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I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
Regardless of what Minnesota offers, a #2 and #3 in 2025 won't get us to #4 IMO. We'd have to give up #47 and our #2 next year at a minimum to get Arizona to drop to #6. And that #2 would have to be our #1 next year to beat that offer from Minnesota. If Schoen does that, he better be right, or he will be fired. I agree that trading down to #11 means that Arizona misses out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, but they could still get Brian Thomas, Jr. at #11.
Another possibility is that they reject the trade offers from the Giants and Minnesota. The Giants don't offer enough to make them risk losing their #1 WR, a risk they don't need to take because they already have a ton of draft capital. That draft capital and losing out on all the "big three" WRs is why they also reject trade overtures from Minnesota.
Been keeping an eye on your tea leaves and the message has been pretty consistent.
By "5 solid camps" do you mean five prospects?
The only way the Vikings are going to trade to pick five or six for a QB, is if the Giants don’t want that same QB.
Ben Allbright who also claimed his source is BD.
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In comment 16454148 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16454139 AcidTest said:
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I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
This is the only option is see as viable if AZ is willing to move back. It is also the amount of draft capital I would want to give up to get QB4.
AZ gets pick 6, 70, and 2025 2nd pick, we get our QB and keep pick 47 to get a good WR, and keep 2025 1st round pick.
And GBN on Penix....
Draft News - ( New Window )
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It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
By "5 solid camps" do you mean five prospects?
Thanks Go Deep.
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In comment 16454174 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16454148 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16454139 AcidTest said:
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I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
Regardless of what Minnesota offers, a #2 and #3 in 2025 won't get us to #4 IMO. We'd have to give up #47 and our #2 next year at a minimum to get Arizona to drop to #6. And that #2 would have to be our #1 next year to beat that offer from Minnesota. If Schoen does that, he better be right, or he will be fired. I agree that trading down to #11 means that Arizona misses out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, but they could still get Brian Thomas, Jr. at #11.
Another possibility is that they reject the trade offers from the Giants and Minnesota. The Giants don't offer enough to make them risk losing their #1 WR, a risk they don't need to take because they already have a ton of draft capital. That draft capital and losing out on all the "big three" WRs is why they also reject trade overtures from Minnesota.
These guys are super accurate on their proprietary trade equation/chart:
202t 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107 would get it done IF AZ likes both Nabers and MHJ highly. If they are in love with MHJ then they won't trade down, I suspect they will like them both a lot.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 16454252 GoDeep13 said:
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It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
By "5 solid camps" do you mean five prospects?
yes.
Hmm, MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, JJM and Maye I presume?
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In comment 16454260 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16454174 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16454148 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16454139 AcidTest said:
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I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
Regardless of what Minnesota offers, a #2 and #3 in 2025 won't get us to #4 IMO. We'd have to give up #47 and our #2 next year at a minimum to get Arizona to drop to #6. And that #2 would have to be our #1 next year to beat that offer from Minnesota. If Schoen does that, he better be right, or he will be fired. I agree that trading down to #11 means that Arizona misses out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, but they could still get Brian Thomas, Jr. at #11.
Another possibility is that they reject the trade offers from the Giants and Minnesota. The Giants don't offer enough to make them risk losing their #1 WR, a risk they don't need to take because they already have a ton of draft capital. That draft capital and losing out on all the "big three" WRs is why they also reject trade overtures from Minnesota.
These guys are super accurate on their proprietary trade equation/chart:
202t 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107 would get it done IF AZ likes both Nabers and MHJ highly. If they are in love with MHJ then they won't trade down, I suspect they will like them both a lot. Link - ( New Window )
Trade charts are largely irrelevant if the team trying to trade up is doing so for a QB. The team trying to trade up typically has to substantially overpay beyond what a trade chart says is fair compensation. That amount would be even greater in this situation because Arizona might have another offer from Minnesota.
But I also think we would have to include #47 in any trade package, unless we offered our #1 next year. Trying to keep #47 by offering a future second and third won't be enough IMO. Future picks are typically discounted by a round, and nobody knows where we would be picking next year.
I do agree that Arizona is our most likely trade partner. The question is how much we'd have to give up to get to #4.
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In comment 16454315 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16454252 GoDeep13 said:
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It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
By "5 solid camps" do you mean five prospects?
yes.
Hmm, MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, JJM and Maye I presume?
Williams, Maye, Daniels, MHJ are the 4 locks, question is whether JJ or Nabers is next, I’d guess Nabers
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In comment 16454380 GoDeep13 said:
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In comment 16454315 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16454252 GoDeep13 said:
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It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
By "5 solid camps" do you mean five prospects?
yes.
Hmm, MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, JJM and Maye I presume?
Williams, Maye, Daniels, MHJ are the 4 locks, question is whether JJ or Nabers is next, I’d guess Nabers
There's no Williams possibility and the Daniels possibility is slim to none. JJM has been linked to us in every way possible, he us definitely one of the "camps".
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In comment 16454297 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16454260 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16454174 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16454148 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16454139 AcidTest said:
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I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
Regardless of what Minnesota offers, a #2 and #3 in 2025 won't get us to #4 IMO. We'd have to give up #47 and our #2 next year at a minimum to get Arizona to drop to #6. And that #2 would have to be our #1 next year to beat that offer from Minnesota. If Schoen does that, he better be right, or he will be fired. I agree that trading down to #11 means that Arizona misses out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, but they could still get Brian Thomas, Jr. at #11.
Another possibility is that they reject the trade offers from the Giants and Minnesota. The Giants don't offer enough to make them risk losing their #1 WR, a risk they don't need to take because they already have a ton of draft capital. That draft capital and losing out on all the "big three" WRs is why they also reject trade overtures from Minnesota.
These guys are super accurate on their proprietary trade equation/chart:
202t 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107 would get it done IF AZ likes both Nabers and MHJ highly. If they are in love with MHJ then they won't trade down, I suspect they will like them both a lot. Link - ( New Window )
Trade charts are largely irrelevant if the team trying to trade up is doing so for a QB. The team trying to trade up typically has to substantially overpay beyond what a trade chart says is fair compensation. That amount would be even greater in this situation because Arizona might have another offer from Minnesota.
But I also think we would have to include #47 in any trade package, unless we offered our #1 next year. Trying to keep #47 by offering a future second and third won't be enough IMO. Future picks are typically discounted by a round, and nobody knows where we would be picking next year.
I do agree that Arizona is our most likely trade partner. The question is how much we'd have to give up to get to #4.
Did you read the article? Their information is proprietary. It's not a chart you can see, they have their own formula and it's specifically for modern values related to top picks for QBs.
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In comment 16454297 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16454260 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16454148 BleedBlue46 said:
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I still think NE takes a QB at #3 or will want a lot more than what Schoen is willing to or should offer to move up. That would put is in competition with Minnesota for #4 or #5, and they seem determined to get one of the "big four" QBs regardless of the cost. We also can't discount the possibility that one of them could still be available at #6.
The Vikings can't force the Cardinals to trade if they prefer to net Nabers or MHJ and don't care for the Vikings 1st rounders because they already have 7 picks in the top 104. Vikings best trade partner is the Patriots and then maybe thr Chargers, imp.
I don't think NE will trade with anyone. They need a QB as much as Minnesota. When you have a chance to draft a QB without moving up you do so. Wolf would be excoriated and likely fired if he traded the #3 pick to team that then used it to draft a franchise QB.
I think Minnesota will offer #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year to Arizona or San Diego. Schoen would have to offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year to beat that offer, something I doubt he would do.
We don't have to match the offer with Minnesota if they Cardinals want MHJ or Nabers. Do they want MHJ/Nabers and our 2025 2nd+3rd, or do they want whatever they can do with picks 11, 23 and the 2025 picks? I'd bet they would prefer to get one of their top WR targets. Kyler is being paid a lot, they need a weapon for him. Nabers and MHJ are both near the top of the overall value board. They aren't getting either of them at 11.
Regardless of what Minnesota offers, a #2 and #3 in 2025 won't get us to #4 IMO. We'd have to give up #47 and our #2 next year at a minimum to get Arizona to drop to #6. And that #2 would have to be our #1 next year to beat that offer from Minnesota. If Schoen does that, he better be right, or he will be fired. I agree that trading down to #11 means that Arizona misses out on MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze, but they could still get Brian Thomas, Jr. at #11.
Another possibility is that they reject the trade offers from the Giants and Minnesota. The Giants don't offer enough to make them risk losing their #1 WR, a risk they don't need to take because they already have a ton of draft capital. That draft capital and losing out on all the "big three" WRs is why they also reject trade overtures from Minnesota.
These guys are super accurate on their proprietary trade equation/chart:
202t 2nd and 3rd or 2025 2nd and pick 107 would get it done IF AZ likes both Nabers and MHJ highly. If they are in love with MHJ then they won't trade down, I suspect they will like them both a lot. Link - ( New Window )
Trade charts are largely irrelevant if the team trying to trade up is doing so for a QB. The team trying to trade up typically has to substantially overpay beyond what a trade chart says is fair compensation. That amount would be even greater in this situation because Arizona might have another offer from Minnesota.
But I also think we would have to include #47 in any trade package, unless we offered our #1 next year. Trying to keep #47 by offering a future second and third won't be enough IMO. Future picks are typically discounted by a round, and nobody knows where we would be picking next year.
I do agree that Arizona is our most likely trade partner. The question is how much we'd have to give up to get to #4.
They aren't discounted by a round, they are valued back of that round picks though.
+1
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In comment 16454442 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16454380 GoDeep13 said:
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In comment 16454315 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16454252 GoDeep13 said:
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It’s April. They’ll be having the final come togethers soon. There are two distinct paths. Both have there camps (seems about 5 solid “camps” to call them). Final layouts will be made. They’ll run their mocks. Ultimately Schoen will have the biggest voice in this year’s draft path. He’s who the Mara’s and Tisch gave the keys too.
By "5 solid camps" do you mean five prospects?
yes.
Hmm, MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, JJM and Maye I presume?
Williams, Maye, Daniels, MHJ are the 4 locks, question is whether JJ or Nabers is next, I’d guess Nabers
There's no Williams possibility and the Daniels possibility is slim to none. JJM has been linked to us in every way possible, he us definitely one of the "camps".
He said two distinct paths, each with their respective camps, 5 camps total. My read:
Path 1 - Trade up for QB. This might have camps for trade w/NE for Maye and trade w/Az for JJM.
Path 2: Stay at 6. This would have camp for Nabers and Odunze, assuming MHJ is gone. The last camp is also in the stay at 6 path but would take a QB over the WRs if one fell (JJM for instance).
That’s my guess.
1) Trade up prices for all top picks have been ascertained. The 5 include Caleb and Jayden.
2) The Bears picking Caleb and WFT picking Jayden are locked in. The 5 are McCarthy, Maye and the top 3 WRs.
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Not wrong
Been keeping an eye on your tea leaves and the message has been pretty consistent.
Same. Crystal clear, but for those who have the ability to understand.
Path 1: Trade up for Maye (Camp 1) or McCarthy (Camp 2)
Path 2: Don't trade up (which could include a trade back) and pick Nabors (Camp 3), Odunze (Camp 4) or McCarthy/Maye at 6 or pick Brian Thomas (Camp 5) at a trade back spot if none of the three aforementioned are there.
Based on what I've read about MHJ, I don't think the Giants are as high on him as others think because he is a not speed guy. Schoen has mentioned about wanting speed guys at the skill positions on offense. Nabers ran a 4.35 40, Odunze ran a 4.45 and Thomas ran a 4.33.
What I am curious about is if they go WR at 6, what is the plan at QB? Is it Pennix at 47 (or a trade up into the back of Round 1) or is it punting to 2025?