I’m a huge fan of Daboll, but is anyone else a little concerned with the public perception if the defense takes a step back? The Wink vs Daboll stuff was a hot topic, if the defense drops off this year that could be really damaging to Dabolls perception. Maybe a dramatic improvement on offense could make up for it, but as a Daboll fan I am a little worried.
The rift with Wink is the obvious sign, but the bullying stuff with Colt McCoy was disgusting to read. Aligns with what we heard about his behavior over the headsets, and exploding at people on the sideline. He had a rift with McDermott in BUF too. When the dude running the team is so out of control he’s disrupting the other coaches from calling the game, it’s a big problem.
Fiery personality or not, it’s no excuse and people don’t respond to it. Not everyone can get away with it like Parcells and Coughlin did.
And his offense and the overall preparation of the team was embarrassing last year and pissed Mara off. The team needs to look organized and well coached this year or he’s gone IMO.
I was a huge fan of hiring him and I was dead wrong. I'm not talking about the crap he pulled but he was a bad defensive coordinator here.
I was watching parts of the Giants-Eagles finale yesterday and the way this team played run defense was nauseating.
The weird thing is his kept saying his number 1 priority was stopping the run.
He created his own issues last year, very tough year for him. I just hope he can self-scout and actually correct.
The guy clearly can coach his ass off (IMO). But aside from the personality conflicts with Wink and Kafka, etc. - the HORRIBLE roster (mis)management (especially with the OL) and utter lack of preparedness in preseason / beginning of the year doomed the Giants right out of the gate last season.
Last year really soured me on him, I'm hoping like hell he has learned from the hard lessons of last season and changes for the better.
1 - The fans didn't really seem phased by this and seemed to figure out quickly this was a poorly organized coupe by Wink
2 - When I talk to fans of other teams that don't follow the Giants closely, "you have a good coach but need talent" seems to be consensus take
With all that being said, yes if the team takes another step back his job is going to be evaluated. That has nothing to do with public perceptions, this is a results orientated league and if your results aren't good, the odds of you keeping your job aren't either.
While a lot of fans concede that 2024 will be a bad year, Schoen didn't trade draft capital for Brian Burns and pay him to go 4-13 this upcoming season.
1 - The fans didn't really seem phased by this and seemed to figure out quickly this was a poorly organized coupe by Wink
2 - When I talk to fans of other teams that don't follow the Giants closely, "you have a good coach but need talent" seems to be consensus take
With all that being said, yes if the team takes another step back his job is going to be evaluated. That has nothing to do with public perceptions, this is a results orientated league and if your results aren't good, the odds of you keeping your job aren't either.
There is no allowance for this team to take a step back. That happened in 2023. This team MUST move forward or Daboll is gone, maybe Schoen too. The offense has to be better and the defense has to be at least solid. There can’t be another 6 win season. 7 wins is not acceptable Need at least 8 wins or more to show that 2022 wasn’t a fluke. And it doesn’t matter who the QB is. Jones, Lock, a rookie doesn’t matter. If the o-line is fixed and the defense is solid, any starting QB should be able to get 8 wins.
Big year for Daboll, I hope he has self scouted and takes a step forward for the sake of the Giants
Big year for Daboll, I hope he has self scouted and takes a step forward for the sake of the Giants
Pissed off both coordinators?
You are finding fault with him in the Wink situation? Wow….seriously?
Ranted at players?
People loved his fire when he won coach of the year
Now it is a detriment?
Maybe not believing a Pat Leonard driven narrative is a good starting point
Comparing the two, while O'Connell had a better record in his first year, Daboll beat him head to head in the playoffs and the offense of the Vikings was not leaps and bounds better than the Giants statistically. Cousins, in fact, did not have his best year in 2022 and arguably had his worst Pro Bowl year. Then in 2023 the Vikings and Giants' offenses were fairly close statistically. Both teams had season ending injuries to their QBs. The Vikings really fell apart in their last 7 games going 1-6. The Giants were not much better, but Daboll had by far the worst backup QB between the group of backups that played for the two teams in DeVito and managed to make him look competent. In terms of development, Daboll is credited for playing a big role in developing Allen, who was very raw coming out of college, and also worked with Hurts and Tua in the year before coming to Buffalo. The QBs that O'Connell worked with recently, Stafford and Cousins, were largely finished products when he got them.
Maybe I am missing something, but I don't get why Daboll is not being mentioned at least on the same level as O'Connell in terms of a QB guru that would be an ideal teacher for any rookie QB.
The rift with Wink is the obvious sign, but the bullying stuff with Colt McCoy was disgusting to read. Aligns with what we heard about his behavior over the headsets, and exploding at people on the sideline. He had a rift with McDermott in BUF too. When the dude running the team is so out of control he’s disrupting the other coaches from calling the game, it’s a big problem.
Fiery personality or not, it’s no excuse and people don’t respond to it. Not everyone can get away with it like Parcells and Coughlin did.
And his offense and the overall preparation of the team was embarrassing last year and pissed Mara off. The team needs to look organized and well coached this year or he’s gone IMO.
This is seems pretty spot on. I think people are not understanding that a HUGE portion of his job is people skills and people management. The guise of well in football there are no feelings arrgh me cave man ....uuggghh nope is not valid. How does a man explain to his son he got got totally embarrassed by another man on NATIONAL TV?. How do you tell you child to stand up for yourself and demand respect from people in all situations? When you are allowing all types of disrespect. Let alone tell your players to have composure on the field when you have none on the sidelines. All the while being an offensive GURU/QB whisperer with a crappy output offensively.
While I agree, he hsn't won shit yet... And I am hopeful it's "YET" (yeah, yeah first year luck) but this year will tell me a lot. If there are more of these internal rumblings than either he changes like Coughlin or he gets the boot. Personally I think he's a bit of a bully and bullies need to be taken down a notch.
Wink didn't do a great job here. HIs track record is OK. We need to do better.
I'm way more worried about Schoen.
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Everything else is just noise.
While I agree, he hsn't won shit yet... And I am hopeful it's "YET" (yeah, yeah first year luck) but this year will tell me a lot. If there are more of these internal rumblings than either he changes like Coughlin or he gets the boot. Personally I think he's a bit of a bully and bullies need to be taken down a notch.
The point i was trying to make is that if he starts winning, the rest of the outside noise about his attitude will go away.
Not really. Winning cures everything but what you think is just noise as a fan isn’t reality. See Joe Judge who probably gets a year 3 if he conducted himself better as a perfect example.
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In comment 16454592 LW_Giants said:
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Everything else is just noise.
Personally I think he's a bit of a bully and bullies need to be taken down a notch.
What did you think about Parcells?
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Everything else is just noise.
Not really. Winning cures everything but what you think is just noise as a fan isn’t reality. See Joe Judge who probably gets a year 3 if he conducted himself better as a perfect example.
Joe Judge was 4-13 his second year. That's just proving my point. If he had won 8-9 games he wouldn't have been fired.
If the defense is somehow worse under the new guy, the team will finish with double digit losses again and Daboll and his staff will sent packing.
Daboll is a good football coach. He will be here while.
Daboll did a good job re-steering the ship. It could have gotten really bad at 2-8.
I was a huge fan of hiring him and I was dead wrong. I'm not talking about the crap he pulled but he was a bad defensive coordinator here.
I was watching parts of the Giants-Eagles finale yesterday and the way this team played run defense was nauseating.
The weird thing is his kept saying his number 1 priority was stopping the run.
This right there. I was really excited when we hired Wink but our defense has not been good. I believe we finished like 28th last year. I am not worried about a drop off in defensive play
I loved that moment from Dabs.
Funny, I always think that was overblown by both sides of the DJ debate. He made a bad play there and Daboll called him out, and he didn't really throw the (I believe it was either an iPad or a Surface), he just kind of dropped it back into that assistant coach's hands. It was clearly an act of frustration by Daboll but I didn't really have a problem with it, and I still like DJ (although I am pretty confident he is likely done as a Giant after '24).
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when he walked away from DJ and threw the clip board. That was bullshit. Especially with a guy like Jones who never once in his career pointed the finger at the OL even though they've been one of the worse in the league his entire career.
I loved that moment from Dabs.
Me too, I think I gained respect for him in that moment. Jones wasn't a rookie or even a second year QB. Some of the shit he was doing last year was absurd.
While a lot of fans concede that 2024 will be a bad year, Schoen didn't trade draft capital for Brian Burns and pay him to go 4-13 this upcoming season.
If we have another losing season Daboll is gone.
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All this talk about a top 5 pick in 2025, that'll likely get Daboll fired. I think he's a good coach, but it's year 3 and he can't have another disappointing year. Mara has already said that Schoen & Daboll aren't a package deal.
While a lot of fans concede that 2024 will be a bad year, Schoen didn't trade draft capital for Brian Burns and pay him to go 4-13 this upcoming season.
If we have another losing season Daboll is gone.
Might want to rethink that one a bit….especially if a rookie QB is starting the majority of the games
The tablet toss was a little showy imv. Jones knew he messed up and the QBC/OC can go over it. Yell at him when he comes off the field and move on.
Big year for him and if we don't see very substantial progress I think they should find another HC. Defensive HC this time.
Don't think the win total is the absolute measuring stick you think. If they have ANOTHER horrendous injury year, where they have a hard time just fielding a team the second half, play hard, are competitive, but finish below 500, there won't be a change.
Mara is looking for stability, not changing coaches every 2-3 years.
Disagree. That throw was unacceptable coming from a practice squad qb never mind your starter that you just invested 9 figures in. I saw him stare Campbell down and knew the result when the ball left his hand. DJ has to know better. Saying oh well we'll get them next time doesn't work there
This is what really bothers me, so called Giant fans seeing that episode and blaming Daboll. Jones completely ignored him and wouldn’t look at the tablet. Can anyone imagine your boss walking into your office to show you something you did wrong, and you closing the door in his face? You’d be out on your ass. Jones should too.
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when he walked away from DJ and threw the clip board. That was bullshit. Especially with a guy like Jones who never once in his career pointed the finger at the OL even though they've been one of the worse in the league his entire career.
Disagree. That throw was unacceptable coming from a practice squad qb never mind your starter that you just invested 9 figures in. I saw him stare Campbell down and knew the result when the ball left his hand. DJ has to know better. Saying oh well we'll get them next time doesn't work there
I saw it as Daboll putting all the blame on Jones and not taking accountability for the poor excuse of an offensive line he and Schoen put on the field. Sure, it was a bad read but when you're constantly running for your life what do you expect
If you played any football in high school and college it would have happened to you at some point, and it's normal to your experience. There are lots of emotional coaches out there.
I dont know why there's any strong feelings about this. All of you were around when tom Coughlin publicly humiliated Matt dodge.
If you played any football in high school and college it would have happened to you at some point, and it's normal to your experience. There are lots of emotional coaches out there.
I dont know why there's any strong feelings about this. All of you were around when tom Coughlin publicly humiliated Matt dodge.
thru college
not football, baseball was my thing thru college so I had all kinds of coaches. But if you remember the year before when the Giants were winning. Jones thru an INT in the end zone, can't remember which game.. but it was either he threw back shoulder or should have. maybe it was to Slayton, not sure. But my point is he went up to Jones after that and even though obviously frustrated he kept his cool, and the announcers even praised him for that. Forget how Coughlin humiliated Dodge, but I'd like to hear that one again
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In comment 16454712 CTGiants said:
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when he walked away from DJ and threw the clip board. That was bullshit. Especially with a guy like Jones who never once in his career pointed the finger at the OL even though they've been one of the worse in the league his entire career.
Disagree. That throw was unacceptable coming from a practice squad qb never mind your starter that you just invested 9 figures in. I saw him stare Campbell down and knew the result when the ball left his hand. DJ has to know better. Saying oh well we'll get them next time doesn't work there
I saw it as Daboll putting all the blame on Jones and not taking accountability for the poor excuse of an offensive line he and Schoen put on the field. Sure, it was a bad read but when you're constantly running for your life what do you expect
Well that is one way of seeing it I suppose.
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In comment 16454592 LW_Giants said:
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Everything else is just noise.
Not really. Winning cures everything but what you think is just noise as a fan isn’t reality. See Joe Judge who probably gets a year 3 if he conducted himself better as a perfect example.
Joe Judge was 4-13 his second year. That's just proving my point. If he had won 8-9 games he wouldn't have been fired.
If your only take is just win then why bother discussing anything? It’s been pretty well rumored that had Judge not conducted himself the way he did completely melting down and kneeling away games he was going to get a 3rd season.