"Giants Suck" approach to the 2024 NFL Draft

I’ve been saying that it wouldn’t shock me if Schoen trades down in the 10-15 range and picks up a 2025 1st rounder. That would be a complete win in my book especially if the QB targets are gone.

is one of need. I think accumulating picks makes more sense than trading picks for a yo at a QB if they can find a trading partner(s).

we (Giants fans on BBI) seem to be the only people who think the Giants have any good WRs. The rest of the country is more right than we are. Our offensive skill players are laughable. (Which is why I'd be more than happy getting Nabors.)

that actually sounds charitable.

I'm all about QB in the first of a trade down.

This team needs are QB, RB2, WR1, OG, DT#2, CB2 and Safety.

Trade down if a top QB doesn’t fall into our laps.

watching Brett Kollman. He was even talking about Dallas Turner because KT's win rate as a pass rusher is terrible. He and the guy he was talking to don't think enough has been done on the OL. There was talk of the need to replace Waller. He doesn't think much of Flott (interestingly, he still thinks Hawkins has a chance).

with the Giants suck approach as given above is that Schoen sucks.

Giants have the following 8 players I would consider impact players:

1. franchise LT in Andrew Thomas
2. 2 good young WRs in Robinson and Hyatt
3. an all-pro type DT in Dexter Lawrence
4. 2 good edge players in Burns and Thibs
5. a should be #1 CB in Banks
6. a good MLB in Okereke

Giants need to keep getting more impact players, not trading down and decreasing the chances of doing so

Is going to forced based the hand that they have dealt themselves.

In addition to being out of reach for the QBs that matter - they have a ton of roster space that needs to be filled - they lost of a ton of guys that played a ton of snaps for them last year.

They don’t even have JAGS as depth on this roster right now.

The NyG need cheap, young players - the best place to get em is the draft.

The roster needs a lot of talent but I am of the opinion that if you can get 3 very good players this year including a future starting QB you need to go that route.

Free agency allows you to add depth and solid starters.

Getting a young QB and a talented WR will help with salary cap costs on their rookie deals.

If NYG like Penix or Nix and can move back, aquire additional first round and mid round pick or an early pick next year ( think MN ) then it might be worth moving back.

and Minny hasn’t moved up, I’d be open to trading the 6th pick for their 11th and 23rd picks. Schoen would probably have to throw in another pick, but I wouldn’t go higher than our 3rd. Maybe Penix is there at 11, and a WR (Legette, Clark?).

In comment 16454829 Mike from SI said:

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we (Giants fans on BBI) seem to be the only people who think the Giants have any good WRs. The rest of the country is more right than we are. Our offensive skill players are laughable. (Which is why I'd be more than happy getting Nabors.)

Robinson, Slayton, and Hyatt are good WRs. Yes, they are lacking a #1

Schoen better hit some home runs or he will be gone. Last years class was one of the worst performing whatever the excuses were.

And then there’s Neal and Jones contract.

In comment 16454838 KDavies said:

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Giants have the following 8 players I would consider impact players: 1. franchise LT in Andrew Thomas 2. 2 good young WRs in Robinson and Hyatt 3. an all-pro type DT in Dexter Lawrence 4. 2 good edge players in Burns and Thibs 5. a should be #1 CB in Banks 6. a good MLB in Okereke Giants need to keep getting more impact players, not trading down and decreasing the chances of doing so

This overrates Robinson and Hyatt. Look what other young receivers do early in their careers, and then look at these guys' production.

Quality>quantity

they passed on Slater/Parsons, wound up drafting Toney and got Neal with the Bears pick.

Give me a Slater or Parsons over Toney/Neal scraps

The Giants need an infusion of talent... they have needs all over the roster... this team has been adrift for far too long.. we finally have a good base to build upon we need to add talent... Defense wins championships -pass rush covers al ot of sins but a great OL helps too... Thats what they are doing. However This nonsense of QB at any cost is folly.. in fact i personally would love a trade down and get Rattler or Nix or a project later with an additional pick... They did a nice job with Cutlets and Tierod... So if possible and i think that is what Schoen is looking at.. I wouldnt be surprised that if their guy Odunze isnt at 6 they will indeed trade down..

In comment 16454847 Mike from SI said:

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In comment 16454838 KDavies said: Quote: Giants have the following 8 players I would consider impact players: 1. franchise LT in Andrew Thomas 2. 2 good young WRs in Robinson and Hyatt 3. an all-pro type DT in Dexter Lawrence 4. 2 good edge players in Burns and Thibs 5. a should be #1 CB in Banks 6. a good MLB in Okereke Giants need to keep getting more impact players, not trading down and decreasing the chances of doing so This overrates Robinson and Hyatt. Look what other young receivers do early in their careers, and then look at these guys' production.

They are 2/3 receivers. I agree the Giants need a #1 and said so above.

Never been less excited about an upcoming season, especially if the QB room remains the same.

would you prefer 11 and 23 from Minn?

Giants to trade down.

At #6, you are assured of either getting a QB you like or a likely #1 WR. Both are situations where the need meets the value.

But they've gotten better this offseason by routing resources away from RB and S and towards the OL and DL. They've done things this offseason that indicate they aren't incompetent.

But there is one huge thing remaining. If they draft a QB and move on from Jones it will be the best offseason they've had in a decade at least. It will be like waking up from a coma.

I don't like the approach of trading down simply to get more picks. At what point do you not take a highly rated top 10 prospect just for the chance of more picks of less highly rated prospects ? If this team is so devoid of talent, why not go for aa much surer thing ? I hope they stay put and take their highest rated player at a position of need .

Many of us said it would take a while to recover from Gettleman's disastrous reign. They're still in that process.

In comment 16454857 KDavies said:

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In comment 16454847 Mike from SI said: Quote: In comment 16454838 KDavies said: Quote: Giants have the following 8 players I would consider impact players: 1. franchise LT in Andrew Thomas 2. 2 good young WRs in Robinson and Hyatt 3. an all-pro type DT in Dexter Lawrence 4. 2 good edge players in Burns and Thibs 5. a should be #1 CB in Banks 6. a good MLB in Okereke Giants need to keep getting more impact players, not trading down and decreasing the chances of doing so This overrates Robinson and Hyatt. Look what other young receivers do early in their careers, and then look at these guys' production. They are 2/3 receivers. I agree the Giants need a #1 and said so above.

I get your point. Perhaps if there were a real number 1 they would perform better, and I do think they have the *talent* to *become* 2/3 quality WRs. But the (lack of) production itself grates on me. They're simply not producing whereas plenty of other young receivers are.

Trade back or take the BPA this is going to be a long process to build talent on this team and hitting on multiple drafts and draft picks.
They can't afford to miss on any picks.

In comment 16454847 Mike from SI said:

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This overrates Robinson and Hyatt. Look what other young receivers do early in their careers, and then look at these guys' production.

Do those other young WRs have sucko Daniel Jones throwing to them?

Neal with no balance,foot speed or blocking prowess...go get Turner.....or Alt on the O line, both have the potential to be game contributors....but wasting this #6 pic on another "KT" pitch out head case will certainly begin the end of the JS/BD era.

For one, I don't think the roster is as bad as people think. Yes, we do have a lot of holes. I'm not saying we don't. But we also have some significant pieces.

There are a lot of areas where the team is young. Schoen has two draft classes of players and I think we need to see how the develop. Those guys are coming into year 2 and year 3. Time to start seeing what we have, not writing them off as bad because aren't plus starters at the get go.

I would much rather address one of those needs (QB or WR) with a massive upgrade than dabble here and there trying to patch holes for 2024.

The defense wasn't terrible last year and we've added a major piece in Burns. We have to hope the Oline is coming together towards respectability in what was done in FA. So on offense, an upgraded Oline plus our QB or blue chip WR will have a big impact on the offense.

Even SB rosters have weaknesses, but they have the QB and they have game changes up and down the roster. Lets add to one of those elements while we have a premium pick to do so.

except the 5-8 teams that are genuine SB contenders.

the rest of the leagues rosters are all basically the same.

teams seasons turn mostly on a handful of players they acquire/develop well from 1 year to the next (or dont) and injury luck.

In comment 16454876 Eric on Li said:

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except the 5-8 teams that are genuine SB contenders. the rest of the leagues rosters are all basically the same. teams seasons turn mostly on a handful of players they acquire/develop well from 1 year to the next (or dont) and injury luck.

This is a valid point.

In fact this "talemt" sucks narrative isn't close to being accirate..

Get the QB!

In comment 16454876 Eric on Li said:

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except the 5-8 teams that are genuine SB contenders. the rest of the leagues rosters are all basically the same. teams seasons turn mostly on a handful of players they acquire/develop well from 1 year to the next (or dont) and injury luck.

Absolutely correct.

In comment 16454876 Eric on Li said:

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except the 5-8 teams that are genuine SB contenders. the rest of the leagues rosters are all basically the same. teams seasons turn mostly on a handful of players they acquire/develop well from 1 year to the next (or dont) and injury luck.

also what this means as it relates to the draft is that the approach should almost always be the same.

if there is a standout player on the clock you take that player. if there isnt, and you have an overwhelming trade offer, you consider it.

the "giants suck" approach to 2021 was probably either take a QB (fields/mac?) or take the trade down, but in reality we now know the obvious right approach was Parsons (or Slater).

It just looked worse because of the QB play. So I completely reject this line of thinking.

In comment 16454871 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 16454847 Mike from SI said: Quote: This overrates Robinson and Hyatt. Look what other young receivers do early in their careers, and then look at these guys' production. Do those other young WRs have sucko Daniel Jones throwing to them?

They don't, but some of them have mediocre Qbs. We can't keep playing this game where when we point out that one position (QB, WR, OL, etc.) stinks, we blame it on other positions. They all stink.

Trade 2 to move back up to grab a 2nd tier QB like Nix or Penix. Team needs to score points and have an option B from Jones. Hell once I get my QB I move Jones for a 5th rd

I've felt Penix minus the injuries is the best QB in this draft. At least, he passed the eye test the best out of all of them IMO. I love his makeup and he is a winner. If this is available, I'd trade back to 11. Could we get the extra 1st? Possibly, I'd even take an extra 2nd + 3rd this year if we get next year's first.

Penix at 11
2 2nds or 1st/2nd = WR and DT/OL with other 2nd

I'm feeding into my strength and continuing to build the Dline in this draft- so much DT talent in that 2nd/3rd round range. For WR, so much talent in that 15-60 range. I think we get a ready-made QB, top talent WR and talented DL/OL just with the first 3 picks. Add 2 more 3rds and possibly a 1st next year and I'm loving this draft.

Penix
Thomas/Mitchel
Fiske/Sweat

In comment 16454893 GuzzaBlue said:

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I've felt Penix minus the injuries is the best QB in this draft. At least, he passed the eye test the best out of all of them IMO. I love his makeup and he is a winner. If this is available, I'd trade back to 11. Could we get the extra 1st? Possibly, I'd even take an extra 2nd + 3rd this year if we get next year's first. Penix at 11 2 2nds or 1st/2nd = WR and DT/OL with other 2nd I'm feeding into my strength and continuing to build the Dline in this draft- so much DT talent in that 2nd/3rd round range. For WR, so much talent in that 15-60 range. I think we get a ready-made QB, top talent WR and talented DL/OL just with the first 3 picks. Add 2 more 3rds and possibly a 1st next year and I'm loving this draft. Penix Thomas/Mitchel Fiske/Sweat

If you like Penix that much, you don't get cute. There are 4 picks between 6 and 11, and a team could easily trade up for him.

Don't care which WR we draft or which hole we hope to fill with Jones and Lock this is a six win team. Again. Other teams have nothing to worry about when they are playing a team that CAN'T SCORE . Giant wins will result from turnovers and defense and there will not be many. Year six of total futility and of course another HC fired. We are still stuck in the DJ era .

Rinse and repeat .

Drew Lock throwing to Nabers, then yeah, it's pretty reasonable to trade down and get more picks, even if they are in next years draft.

...

think you always have to pick up the phone and listen, but I am not typically a fan of trading down from a top 10 pick. That is especially true this year since we are guaranteed to get one of the "big three" WRs, and maybe one of the "big four" QBs. But there was a report that Schoen has spoken to at least one team about trading down.

Somebody also posted some trade down scenarios from #47 yesterday, which I think is more likely.

Needs work on the secondary, no. 1 WR, and OL depth. QB of course is the major problem. But I don't really buy into this godawful roster theory.

Actually, Bill Simmons was trying to make the case for the Giants being in dire straights this morning but Mina Kimes kinda talked him off of it, citing the defensive line strength.

I would much rather Kadarius Toney than Micah Parsons. Everyone is obsessed with the idea of trading down. In principle, it sounds great, but let's not forget one of the best drafts in Giants history was 2005. We had 4 picks. 3 of them turned into Webster, Tuck, and Jacobs, 3 players who were integral parts of two championship teams. The number of picks a team has means nothing. If your scouts do a good job of identifying good players, you'll have good drafts.

My viewpoint is, this team needs a quarterback. I'm amazed at how many people don't want to trade up to get one. Do we forget that is how we acquired Eli (essentially, though not technically), after which we built around him? I get it, the roster isn't good, but you get the QB first and build around him, not the other way around. I know there are many who would disagree with me, but if you get the QB right, the other pieces will fall into place, whereas if you build a good team then spend 2-3 years searching for the right QB, those players start to leave in free agency, get traded, retire, etc. 16 of the last 23 Super Bowls (since Brady's first) have been won by 5 QB's.

obviously we take a place kicker at #6 and a high motor guy in the second round.

Playoffs!

"the roster is abysmal- fire everyone! start over! EVERY pick has to be a Home Run." stuff like this.

1. the draft is NOT about plugging holes
2. QB is one of the positions that they need to upgrade, AND its the most difficult to fill. They have their best shot this year.

3. There are ways to "fill holes" besides the draft. The draft is the BEST place to get cost controlled, difference makers.

Get the QB!! if it means you end up with only 4 picks and he ends up the Home Run, nobody will care you gave up draft capital.

The roster is still, at best, mediocre. BUT, as listed above, you can identify around 10 players who are a core.
When Schoen took over, you had AT and Dex. That was it.

So the roster IS improving, just not as quickly as we fans would like. Better player development would help.

And I will add I would be shocked if the Giants draft a QB in the first round.

In comment 16454834 Eric from BBI said:

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watching Brett Kollman. He was even talking about Dallas Turner because KT's win rate as a pass rusher is terrible. He and the guy he was talking to don't think enough has been done on the OL. There was talk of the need to replace Waller. He doesn't think much of Flott (interestingly, he still thinks Hawkins has a chance).

The one thing I may absolutely get burned by the most this season is expecting KT to take a big jump.

Pass rushers never fared well in Wink's system, it was always chocked up to his scheme, but after the way things shook down this year I'm wondering if Wilkins was just a crappy coach and that was the real reason why.

Our new OLB coach has a very good track record and I'm hoping KT also gets to work with Andre Patterson a little bit, the fact he wasn't the last two seasons is mind boggling to me.