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"Giants Suck" approach to the 2024 NFL Draft

Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/3/2024 11:19 am
I've been watching a ton of pundits lately to get a feel for who will go where in the upcoming draft, and to hear their takes on the respective teams, including the Giants.

The general consensus nationally is that the Giants' roster stinks. Some even saying it is one of the very worst in the NFL.

The Giants currently approach the draft with only six picks, one of the lowest totals in the entire league.

That is not good.

Are we looking at this the wrong way? Yes, the Giants need a QB. They need a #1 WR. But they need a lot of things in a draft that is going to be very strong in the 1-4 round range.

Perhaps the Giants should trade down. And then trade down again... and maybe again.
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RE: M.S.  
M.S. : 4/3/2024 7:03 pm : link
In comment 16455453 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Hell of a time to be a fan, ain't it.

I hear ya!

I’m still recovering from last season. I had so much hope that Schoen/Daboll would continue with a competitive team and that was crushed in the first quarter of the first game!

At some point in time Joe Schoen will need at least one fantastic draft. Keeping my fingers crossed it’s this one!

Go Giants!

RE: if they havent already and dont continue to improve roster via draft  
Johnny5 : 4/3/2024 8:45 pm : link
In comment 16455517 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
then dont worry, nothing else really matters.

if schoen's regime cant draft and develop then they aren't going to last long no matter what else happens.

the good news (or bad news) is that biggest part of that is a lot of guys already here likely to play a lot of snaps/starts this year - thibs, neal, wandale, mcfadden, flott, belton, hyatt, jms, banks, bellinger, mccloud, pinnock, etc.

a little perspective to give some hope. ahead of 2007:

Tuck and Jacobs had 1 career start combined.
Diehl hadn't played 1 rep at left tackle.
Webster was considered a total bust.
Seubert hadnt started full time since 2002.
Kiwanuka was moving to LB. Reggie Torbor was his backup.
James Butler also only had 1 career start.
Ross, Smith, Boss, Bradshaw, Johnson all obviously rookies.
i think Hedgecock was an in-season waivers claim.

forgetting what anyone thought of eli entering that year, that list is half of what became super bowl starters entering the season as major unknowns.

none of us can easily predict what will or wont happen with the young players entering their 1st/2nd/3rd seasons next year, only that a lot of them have gotten a lot of reps already and that trend will continue especially with whoever they pick 6th/47th. that group is largely who this regime will sink or swim with.

I have to tell you Eric, I always - ALWAYS - find myself nodding my head every time I read any of your posts... lol
RE: RE: if they havent already and dont continue to improve roster via draft  
Eric on Li : 4/3/2024 9:06 pm : link
In comment 16455623 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 16455517 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


then dont worry, nothing else really matters.

if schoen's regime cant draft and develop then they aren't going to last long no matter what else happens.

the good news (or bad news) is that biggest part of that is a lot of guys already here likely to play a lot of snaps/starts this year - thibs, neal, wandale, mcfadden, flott, belton, hyatt, jms, banks, bellinger, mccloud, pinnock, etc.

a little perspective to give some hope. ahead of 2007:

Tuck and Jacobs had 1 career start combined.
Diehl hadn't played 1 rep at left tackle.
Webster was considered a total bust.
Seubert hadnt started full time since 2002.
Kiwanuka was moving to LB. Reggie Torbor was his backup.
James Butler also only had 1 career start.
Ross, Smith, Boss, Bradshaw, Johnson all obviously rookies.
i think Hedgecock was an in-season waivers claim.

forgetting what anyone thought of eli entering that year, that list is half of what became super bowl starters entering the season as major unknowns.

none of us can easily predict what will or wont happen with the young players entering their 1st/2nd/3rd seasons next year, only that a lot of them have gotten a lot of reps already and that trend will continue especially with whoever they pick 6th/47th. that group is largely who this regime will sink or swim with.


I have to tell you Eric, I always - ALWAYS - find myself nodding my head every time I read any of your posts... lol


in my house i get eye rolls so ill take what i can get.

(and b4 any of the recent registration dupe fanclub chimes in, yes, im sure i get plenty of that here as well)
We have a lot of holes  
JerrysKids : 4/3/2024 11:12 pm : link
but I do not think we have the worst roster there is too much talent to go that far. Joe Schoen has been a disaster and needs to have a good draft right now, he is running out of time, so far I don't think much of his 2 draft classes. With all that said we have enough guys that if we do have a good draft, Daniel Jones can get back to 2022 form and most importantly Daball coaches the way he did in 2022 we can be a play off team.
Jury is still out Some misses but  
bc4life : 4/4/2024 8:23 am : link
Players Schoen has brought in:

Okereke, Burns, McFadden, Banks, Schmidts, Hyatt, Robinson, Thibs, signed Dex. No one could've foreseen Neal's struggles.

Some players have not had a chance because of injuries, some of them may still pan out
RE: If the roster is that bad,  
nygiantfan : 4/4/2024 8:34 am : link
In comment 16455146 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
why did we trade for Burns?

We are paying him huge money and our window isn't open yet. He's more of a 'last piece' for a team that thinks they are going to contend.


Edge Rusher is the last piece? What's the first piece? What are the middle pieces?

Ron, please show us the exact order a championship roster is put together.
RE: I was  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/4/2024 11:32 am : link
In comment 16454834 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
watching Brett Kollman. He was even talking about Dallas Turner because KT's win rate as a pass rusher is terrible. He and the guy he was talking to don't think enough has been done on the OL. There was talk of the need to replace Waller. He doesn't think much of Flott (interestingly, he still thinks Hawkins has a chance).

I'm not ready to write off Thibs, much like I'm not ready to write off Neal, because I think Drew Wilkins and Bobby Johnson were not only the worst position coaches on the staff last year, but they both may have been among the worst in the league at their respective positions.

2024 is a big year for both of them, as it should be in their third NFL season.
Just for perspective...  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/4/2024 1:02 pm : link
...the last NFC team that saw a QB pick pay off in the top half of Round One was Carolina, with Cam Newton in 2011. I guess you can make a case for Carson Wentz or Kyler Murray, but their second contracts don't look much better than Daniel Jones's.

The dozen drafts since Newton look like this:
Bryce Young
Trey Lance
Justin Fields
Kyler Murray
Daniel Jones
Dwayne Haskins
Josh Rosen
Mitch Trubisky
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz
Jameis Winston
Robert Griffin III

The hit rate in the AFC is pretty bad too, but Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Luck offer some justification for buying a lottery ticket when the opportunity arises.
Meanwhile, here's how the 2023 NFC playoff teams acquired their QBs:  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/4/2024 1:18 pm : link
San Francisco: 262nd pick, 2022
Detroit: Trade, 2021
Philadelphia: 53rd pick, 2020
Green Bay: 26th pick, 2020
Tampa Bay: One-year UFA contract, 2023
Dallas: 135th Pick, 2016
L.A. Rams: Trade, 2021

Not suggesting the Giants shouldn't take a shot, or that they should stick with Daniel Jones. Just advocating realism with regard to the chances of striking gold in the draft, even at #6 or above.
RE: Just for perspective...  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/4/2024 2:42 pm : link
In comment 16456322 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...the last NFC team that saw a QB pick pay off in the top half of Round One was Carolina, with Cam Newton in 2011. I guess you can make a case for Carson Wentz or Kyler Murray, but their second contracts don't look much better than Daniel Jones's.

The dozen drafts since Newton look like this:
Bryce Young
Trey Lance
Justin Fields
Kyler Murray
Daniel Jones
Dwayne Haskins
Josh Rosen
Mitch Trubisky
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz
Jameis Winston
Robert Griffin III

The hit rate in the AFC is pretty bad too, but Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Luck offer some justification for buying a lottery ticket when the opportunity arises.

I'm asking this sincerely - what do you think is relevant about splitting by conference other than simply sensationalizing the post?

There is nothing that separates the two conferences besides alternating home jerseys in the Super Bowl.
Gatorade Dunk: Agreed, there's no difference between the conferences.  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/4/2024 3:24 pm : link
And you're right that the NFC offers a more compelling picture, so that was a bit of a rhetorical flourish. My point was just that these are the teams the Giants compete with to reach the Super Bowl, and they've been getting there without drafting a QB early in Round 1.

Even Mahomes can be invoked by either side of the argument. Yes, KC traded up to get him; but he was the 10th pick, which if my math is right would be a trade down from #6.
splitting the conferences doesnt matter but the point is a good one  
Eric on Li : 4/4/2024 3:31 pm : link
which is that teams cant cry over missing out on a top pick QB. this was from an article the athletic did evaluating top 10 QBs in the new CBA. Look how big of a hit a teams odds of success take when you exclude the 1st overall picks and how much the odds of a bust or reach increase:



taking a job as a head coach in the NFL comes with the understanding that you are very unlikely to be saved by Andrew Luck or Joe Burrow.

You need to be ready to find another way as the teams in the NFC have done, as Andy Reid did before Mahomes and once he got him/developed him, and as the Bills did moving up for QB3 Josh Allen.
RE: that's overblown IMO  
TyreeHelmet : 4/5/2024 11:39 am : link
In comment 16454838 KDavies said:
Quote:
Giants have the following 8 players I would consider impact players:

1. franchise LT in Andrew Thomas
2. 2 good young WRs in Robinson and Hyatt
3. an all-pro type DT in Dexter Lawrence
4. 2 good edge players in Burns and Thibs
5. a should be #1 CB in Banks
6. a good MLB in Okereke

Giants need to keep getting more impact players, not trading down and decreasing the chances of doing so


But thats not nearly enough and you are being pretty generous with that list.

They have massive holes all over the roster with the biggest one at QB. Its beating a dead horse but its why the Jones contract is such a killer. They have the opposite of the good qb on a rookie contract cap advantage. They have a bad QB taking up 20% of the cap.
What's geerous about that list  
bc4life : 4/5/2024 12:49 pm : link
Also, thought McFadden played better and better as season wore on.

And, no reason to think Schmitz is not going to be at least a solid starter and the veteran additions and new OL coach will help.

They have some decent backs and wrs, but need at # 1 at both positions.

We'll see what happens with present DL. Riley may surprise.
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