|
|
|
| Quote: |
| The Giants, who will pick No. 6 again, are believed to have privately worked out Maye last week in Chapel Hill, N.C., after general manager Joe Schoen and head coach Brian Daboll attended Washington quarterback Michael Penix Jr.’s Pro Day instead of North Carolina’s. It was at least Maye’s third time in front of Giants’ brass, including meetings at the NFL Scouting Combine and at the team’s East Rutherford facility. |
I'd guess there are parameters of a deal in place with NE assuming WSH takes Daniels.
Now, if Wash takes him at 2, they're screwed. I believe in that case, they will stay at 6 and take the WR.
BUT if he's there at 3, Schoen will move WHATEVER he needs to in order to make it happen. (The Godfather equivalent of "I'll make you an offer you can't refuse- to NE).
If he's right the arrow starts pointing up in a big way. If he's not, he's probably gone anyway.
His whole tenure here is riding on this evaluation and what happens.
Me too. The question is will the Pats be willing to accept what the Giants are offering, if the Pats are in fact not overly enamored with Maye?
Quote:
I think he’ll be there at three, if we wanna move up.
Me too. The question is will the Pats be willing to accept what the Giants are offering, if the Pats are in fact not overly enamored with Maye?
I think so. They drop down to 6 and get a blue chip WR. They'll get the NYG 2025 first rounder. They'll likely get another pick on top of that and a cost controlled player on their rookie deal.
Quote:
In comment 16455931 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I think he’ll be there at three, if we wanna move up.
Me too. The question is will the Pats be willing to accept what the Giants are offering, if the Pats are in fact not overly enamored with Maye?
I think so. They drop down to 6 and get a blue chip WR. They'll get the NYG 2025 first rounder. They'll likely get another pick on top of that and a cost controlled player on their rookie deal.
I'm thinking the Giants give up #6, #47, their first round pick next year along with their third round pick next year to get him. Beats what the Vikings will pay + the Pats can still take a QB at 6 that they like from that second tier. Nix or Pennix will still be there for sure; JJM will be probably be gone in this scenario though, with Minnesota trading up to 5 with the Chargers to take him.
Now, if Wash takes him at 2, they're screwed. I believe in that case, they will stay at 6 and take the WR.
BUT if he's there at 3, Schoen will move WHATEVER he needs to in order to make it happen. (The Godfather equivalent of "I'll make you an offer you can't refuse- to NE).
If he's right the arrow starts pointing up in a big way. If he's not, he's probably gone anyway.
His whole tenure here is riding on this evaluation and what happens.
This is what I suspect too. They really like Maye but he may not get by Washington. If he does, I think they will try to trade up with the Pats.
He’s their guy.
I'd guess there are parameters of a deal in place with NE assuming WSH takes Daniels.
It fits Schoen's process and explains why they have been aggressive in getting more face time with Maye. I believe he was one of if not the first 30 visits for them.
They're doing their diligence on the other QBs as fall back plans but I agree that Maye is the one they want and they are checking the boxes to be comfortable with the rumored trade up to 3. All it requires is WAS to take Daniels and I think this will happen.
Unless NE was McCarthy then a trade with ARZ makes sense and I would hope the Ossenfort/Cowden relationship would give us the upper hand there.
I’d be surprised if WFT doesn’t take Daniels.
Quote:
not sure he gets by Washington.
I’d be surprised if WFT doesn’t take Daniels.
No one knows what Washington is doing.
Yep.. One thing I can say for sure I have been Maye first, Williams would be second but he will be gone then JJM..
My $.02...I'm buying JMac to the Pats at #3 if they don't trade out.
Which would be a huge draft gift to push Maye down.
Quote:
NYG could get an opportunity to trade up to #3.
My $.02...I'm buying JMac to the Pats at #3 if they don't trade out.
Which would be a huge draft gift to push Maye down.
Agree, as long the Vikes don't want Maye.
Quote:
NYG could get an opportunity to trade up to #3.
My $.02...I'm buying JMac to the Pats at #3 if they don't trade out.
Which would be a huge draft gift to push Maye down.
Agreed...
any QB on the Giants current roster, is he really enough (i.e. a long-term answer) for the Pats to move out of the 3-hole and potentially miss out on a franchise QB?
That's a tough one.
any QB on the Giants current roster, is he really enough (i.e. a long-term answer) for the Pats to move out of the 3-hole and potentially miss out on a franchise QB?
That's a tough one.
Agreed.
It's like we're trying to convince ourselves that the Pats would trade out of 3 because it would be better for us, just like Giants' fans originally tried to convince themselves that the Bears might keep Fields and trade out of the top spot, so that we could take Caleb.
QB is the toughest position to fill and more often than not your best chance to do it is at the top of the draft.
Even if you have a bad team, playing a tough schedule and you lose your starting QB, you can still finish with the 6th worst record and be out of the running for a top QB.
I just can't see the Pats passing on a QB at 3, knowing that they can be bad every year, but still not bad enough to have a shot at a top QB prospect.
The Giants are in year 3 of Daboll and Schoen. We need a franchise QB to juice this team and give us hope. If it was year 1 for them then QB might not be the urgent need it is today.
We are not going anywhere without a good QB.
That's the other hope...right.
What's interesting to me is that I still think the Pats have a playoff caliber D, especially getting some players healthy (Judon, Gonzo). People can pile on BB's drafting the last three years, but I think he found some serious talent to stock that D.
I'm the last one to say since I haven't been following the rumblings about QB preferences. I'm taking it on faith that some of the rumblings are true, others false and some are just pure B.S.
In any event, I think Jim in Tampa said it best: "It's like we're trying to convince ourselves that the Pats would trade out of 3 because it would be better for us..."
I personally would love it if Maye was a Giant. I do have a hard time believing NE would bounce out of that position when they need a QB, but they need so much that acquiring extra picks and moving to 6 to get Nix or Penix might be just fine for them.
I would want to keep pick 47 somehow, that is my hang up with trading up. I think that could be a really good player, a WR, CB or DT which we all need to add talent at.
Maybe NYG can get NE 3rd round pick and pick 3, NYG send NE pick 6, 47, 2005 1st and 4th round picks.
The Giants are in year 3 of Daboll and Schoen. We need a franchise QB to juice this team and give us hope. If it was year 1 for them then QB might not be the urgent need it is today.
Sounds good, but I'm afraid the Giants are really in Year One of the Joe Schoen / Brian Daboll regime even though the clock says Year 3.
What I don't understand is why New England would trade with anyone. One of the first rules of drafting is that you don't trade down if you need a QB and can draft one at your position without having to move up. Nobody knows where our picks will fall in the various rounds next year, and New England might not be able to package multiple day one and day two picks to be move up. They might not even be able to find a trade partner. Their fanbase would be furious if Wolf traded a pick that became a franchise QB for another team. He'd be fired, and rightfully so.
Schoen will also rightfully be fired if he moves up for Maye and he becomes Sam Darnold. It's a variant of the "Pottery Barn Rule," except that instead of "you break it, you bought it," it's "you traded up for him, you own him."
I wouldn't move up for any of these QBs, expect maybe to #5 for #70. Massive move ups for QBs fail at least 50% of the time, and none of these QBs to me are worth the draft capital required to get one. I am also concerned that Schoen would make a massive move up to compensate for the disastrous contract he gave Jones.
Desperation sinks franchises worse than not having a “franchise QB”
I personally would love it if Maye was a Giant. I do have a hard time believing NE would bounce out of that position when they need a QB, but they need so much that acquiring extra picks and moving to 6 to get Nix or Penix might be just fine for them.
I would want to keep pick 47 somehow, that is my hang up with trading up. I think that could be a really good player, a WR, CB or DT which we all need to add talent at.
Maybe NYG can get NE 3rd round pick and pick 3, NYG send NE pick 6, 47, 2005 1st and 4th round picks.
I'd be stunned if we could keep #47 in any move up with NE or AZ. That's just not realistic. Those teams want that pick for the same reason you want to keep it, namely this is a deep draft, especially at WR, and there will be many good players as a consequence in the second and third rounds.
I doubt whether New England wants to use the #6 pick on Nix or Penix, but if they didn't then those players will likely be taken before their second round pick. Trading with us therefore means that they either overdraft Nix or Penix at #6 or miss out on the top six QBs, assuming that Minnesota trades up with AZ or SD for JJM.
Maye has a top 5 ceiling or as Jerod Mayo put it “an unlimited ceiling”. I don’t see that upside with JJ. Jmo
Confound the two at your own peril.
Yeah, there are legitimate excuses. It takes two to tango and at least one team has more to offer.
Quote:
any QB on the Giants current roster, is he really enough (i.e. a long-term answer) for the Pats to move out of the 3-hole and potentially miss out on a franchise QB?
That's a tough one.
Agreed.
It's like we're trying to convince ourselves that the Pats would trade out of 3 because it would be better for us, just like Giants' fans originally tried to convince themselves that the Bears might keep Fields and trade out of the top spot, so that we could take Caleb.
QB is the toughest position to fill and more often than not your best chance to do it is at the top of the draft.
Even if you have a bad team, playing a tough schedule and you lose your starting QB, you can still finish with the 6th worst record and be out of the running for a top QB.
I just can't see the Pats passing on a QB at 3, knowing that they can be bad every year, but still not bad enough to have a shot at a top QB prospect.
+2. Excellent analysis.
This is really a test if the Giants brass has the right tools.
What? The Giants trading up from #6 for a WR in this draft would be ridiculous.
Or possibly they have equal grades on four players. If they're at 3 and they like Maye/JJ/Penix/Nix about the same, they can trade to 6, still get a QB they like, and pick up assets to win with.
Quote:
In comment 16455931 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I think he’ll be there at three, if we wanna move up.
Me too. The question is will the Pats be willing to accept what the Giants are offering, if the Pats are in fact not overly enamored with Maye?
I think so. They drop down to 6 and get a blue chip WR. They'll get the NYG 2025 first rounder. They'll likely get another pick on top of that and a cost controlled player on their rookie deal.
True. Giants 2025 first rounder has to be a betting favorite for a top 5 pick.
NE will likely add their own top 5 pick.
If NE sees 2 top QBs for 2025 they like better than the 3rd QB in 2024 - trading with the Giants makes sense.
Yeah, there are legitimate excuses. It takes two to tango and at least one team has more to offer.
Yes, it’s a 32-team league. Unfortunately the Giants can’t just get what they want because they really, really want it.
Getting a nasty WR1 is a great consolation prize. Gotta keep sawing wood.
Yeah, there are legitimate excuses. It takes two to tango and at least one team has more to offer.
Not sure if this is a reference to me, but if so, then I'll just say that this is obviously true and I never meant to say otherwise. I just don't want to read after that the Giants loved a guy but didn't really explore moving up for that person because there wasn't agreement in the front office that it was time to move on from Jones.
@3 - NYG -Maye
@4 - NE -JJM
@6 - Az -MHJ/Nabers
That's assuming Washington takes Daniels, which could easily happen, and if they do take Maye, obviously all bets are off.
Quote:
In comment 16455931 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I think he’ll be there at three, if we wanna move up.
Me too. The question is will the Pats be willing to accept what the Giants are offering, if the Pats are in fact not overly enamored with Maye?
I think so. They drop down to 6 and get a blue chip WR. They'll get the NYG 2025 first rounder. They'll likely get another pick on top of that and a cost controlled player on their rookie deal.
They could drop to 6 for pick 6, future 1st and 2nd and maybe 3rd, then get to 4 for future 2nd and 3rd and get JJM. Would be a great move on their part.
Quote:
.
What? The Giants trading up from #6 for a WR in this draft would be ridiculous.
Uh, whoops. Bad writing by me. What I meant was it seems like:
1) Trade up for Maye
or
2) Stay put for Nabers/Odunze.
@3 - NYG -Maye
@4 - NE -JJM
@6 - Az -MHJ/Nabers
That's assuming Washington takes Daniels, which could easily happen, and if they do take Maye, obviously all bets are off.
Yeah they could do that or NE could have a deal in place with AZ after they trade down with us too. Pick 6, 2025 2nd and 3rd from us, 2025 2nd and 3rd for pick 4. They could get the guy they like more and a 2025 1st from us.
Quote:
In comment 16456147 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
.
What? The Giants trading up from #6 for a WR in this draft would be ridiculous.
Uh, whoops. Bad writing by me. What I meant was it seems like:
1) Trade up for Maye
or
2) Stay put for Nabers/Odunze.
Right on brother!
If he has evaluated Maye and sees his ceiling as a top 5 QB, then NO price is too high.
Until they get the RIGHT QB in here, they are just spinning their wheels. #1s from future years?
Didn't work out too well (so far) with KT and Neal.
Use the draft capital, get your guy.
NE may be amenable to a trade down to 6. for 2 reasons.
1. they may like Nix, who they can take for sure at 6.
2. they may like the QBs next year better, and can use the 6th pick to grab one of these elite WRs to pair with a QB next year.
I'm quite sure, Schoen has been having conversations for awhile now with NE and Ariz. to have the framework of a deal in place.
This is a high stakes poker game now, between these 3 teams and Minn. push your chips to the middle of the table and call!
Yes, I don't think it's Maye or WR at 6. I think it's Maye, JJM or WR at 6.
What I hope is that Schoen is leveraging in any talks with NE, Arizona or the Chargers, that a trade with the Giants still leaves the trading partner at 6th overall and likely a shot at one of the three highly rated receivers. So those teams MIGHT be willing to take a guarantee of extracting at least some Draft Capital from the Giants (but not a King's Ransom) rather than driving the Giants off and the Giants end up getting their guy without a trade up.
I hope Schoen has some "trade parameters" in place, but makes no trades until draft day and see how things play out.
This "trade at any cost" talk makes no sense to me.
Even Accorsi didn't "trade for Eli at any cost". San Diego really wanted Osi and Ernie stuck to his guns (thankfully).
Otherwise sit tight and maybe take JJM although I’d rather just take a WR
I think the interest in Maye and JJM is very real. I imagine they have worked the phones for every possible scenario. If they really love Maye, then trading pick 6, 2025 1st, 2nd and 3rd for pick 3 followed by NE trading a 2025 2nd and 3rd to AZ for pick 4 would make a lot of sense. NE could get JJM plus our 2025 1st while we get Maye at 3. The trade for pick 3 will be much, much more expensive than the trade to 4 so they better be right.
Let's offer NE Neal, Ojulari and:
2024: #1, #2, #3.
2025: #1, #2, #3.
2026: #1, #2, #3.
Great deal for the Giants!
Let's offer NE Neal, Ojulari and:
2024: #1, #2, #3.
2025: #1, #2, #3.
2026: #1, #2, #3.
Great deal for the Giants!
You know how I feel about it, I prefer to not sell the farm for pick 3 myself. If we can get Maye/JJM at pick 4 for a 2025 2nd and 3rd or less great. If not, move on to plan B trade down or Nabers/Odunze.
That said if it must be Maye or McCarthy I'd rather a trade up that than sitting at 6 and drafting a WR.
Leaving the first round without a QB, in this class, is a big miss.
Let's offer NE Neal, Ojulari and:
2024: #1, #2, #3.
2025: #1, #2, #3.
2026: #1, #2, #3.
Great deal for the Giants!
Except for the Neal and Ojulari. I wouldn't mind a trade up for Maye, but the chances in my view that NE trades out are slim UNLESS a team overwhelms them with a deal they can't refuse. Probably something like 2024 #6 and 47 and 2025 #1 and #3, and 2026 #2 and might get their attention.
imo the way they have handled their QB spot so far this offseason implies they are taking a QB in the draft. Brissett to a 1 year deal, at lower price than the veterans who are competing to start, to me indicates he is a 1 year stop gap likely to back up more games than he starts. fields was available for nothing, he'd have been a very easy add to bring to camp and let compete with brissett if they werent enamored with a QB they will likely have a shot at it. jimmy g probably another.
it could be that they are high on penix/nix and dont feel the need to pick a QB at #3 so they are willing to move back but i think it's more likely they take a qb at 3.
Quote:
why the Pats could trade down is they may simply not be high on the QBs. Likely? Maybe not, but don't know.
imo the way they have handled their QB spot so far this offseason implies they are taking a QB in the draft. Brissett to a 1 year deal, at lower price than the veterans who are competing to start, to me indicates he is a 1 year stop gap likely to back up more games than he starts. fields was available for nothing, he'd have been a very easy add to bring to camp and let compete with brissett if they werent enamored with a QB they will likely have a shot at it. jimmy g probably another.
it could be that they are high on penix/nix and dont feel the need to pick a QB at #3 so they are willing to move back but i think it's more likely they take a qb at 3.
They could come away with a QB they like more in JJM and our 2025 1st plus maybe more if they traded with us then up with AZ.
Quote:
In comment 16456149 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
why the Pats could trade down is they may simply not be high on the QBs. Likely? Maybe not, but don't know.
imo the way they have handled their QB spot so far this offseason implies they are taking a QB in the draft. Brissett to a 1 year deal, at lower price than the veterans who are competing to start, to me indicates he is a 1 year stop gap likely to back up more games than he starts. fields was available for nothing, he'd have been a very easy add to bring to camp and let compete with brissett if they werent enamored with a QB they will likely have a shot at it. jimmy g probably another.
it could be that they are high on penix/nix and dont feel the need to pick a QB at #3 so they are willing to move back but i think it's more likely they take a qb at 3.
They could come away with a QB they like more in JJM and our 2025 1st plus maybe more if they traded with us then up with AZ.
They wouldn't take the risk in Minnesota beating them to JJ at 4 so I doubt it.
Let's offer NE Neal, Ojulari and:
2024: #1, #2, #3.
2025: #1, #2, #3.
2026: #1, #2, #3.
Great deal for the Giants!
Well, Maye isn't Elway's caliber, but he does have a high-end toolbox. I actually see some Joe Burrow.
And I think Maye's 2022 video is being ignored too much.
Quote:
In comment 16456382 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16456149 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
why the Pats could trade down is they may simply not be high on the QBs. Likely? Maybe not, but don't know.
imo the way they have handled their QB spot so far this offseason implies they are taking a QB in the draft. Brissett to a 1 year deal, at lower price than the veterans who are competing to start, to me indicates he is a 1 year stop gap likely to back up more games than he starts. fields was available for nothing, he'd have been a very easy add to bring to camp and let compete with brissett if they werent enamored with a QB they will likely have a shot at it. jimmy g probably another.
it could be that they are high on penix/nix and dont feel the need to pick a QB at #3 so they are willing to move back but i think it's more likely they take a qb at 3.
They could come away with a QB they like more in JJM and our 2025 1st plus maybe more if they traded with us then up with AZ.
They wouldn't take the risk in Minnesota beating them to JJ at 4 so I doubt it.
They would only do it if they had a deal in place, couldn't be haphazard.
Quote:
are in year one of Eliot Wolfe and Mayo. Pats can afford to take a slower route to the build and pass on QB initially to strengthen the roster..
The Giants are in year 3 of Daboll and Schoen. We need a franchise QB to juice this team and give us hope. If it was year 1 for them then QB might not be the urgent need it is today.
Sounds good, but I'm afraid the Giants are really in Year One of the Joe Schoen / Brian Daboll regime even though the clock says Year 3.
Perhaps, but only due to the half assery theme of the last decade plus. Even if the slate is clean which I hope it is with ownership, the fans aren’t so forgiving so the public pressure is worse than normal year 1 pressure. I think they are feeling it and know the owners can be swayed by public outcry. A QB buys them something closer to year 1 pressure.
At what cost? To me, the tea leaves are saying the Giants ABSOLUTELY want to come out of rd 1 with a QB.
This isn't like 2004, when they still had Kerry Collins on the roster.
They have diddly squat going forward. They've boxed themselves into a corner, so it WILL take a king's ransom to get their guy.
However, if JS is right and the guy is what they hoped he would be, nobody will give a damn about the draft capital.
If he's wrong, he's canned.
The sweet spot is Arizona which is why the scouting into JJM and Penix is heavy.
Let Dabs highlight all who he thinks he can work with and then go earn your salary Joe.
Unfortunately it's really out of the Giants hands at this point, I'm not gettin my hopes up. NE isn't going to make a trade until they are on the clock, and IF the QB they don't love who's sitting there, they MAY trade out. And if that's the case, I agree it's going to entail a boatload, because Minnesota may have the same plans to get to 3. There will be multiple plan B moves the Giants will then turn to, including taking one of the top receivers.
At what cost? To me, the tea leaves are saying the Giants ABSOLUTELY want to come out of rd 1 with a QB.
This isn't like 2004, when they still had Kerry Collins on the roster.
They have diddly squat going forward. They've boxed themselves into a corner, so it WILL take a king's ransom to get their guy.
However, if JS is right and the guy is what they hoped he would be, nobody will give a damn about the draft capital.
If he's wrong, he's canned.
I think if he doesn't take a QB Dabs and Schoen both won't be here long, if he takes a bad qb they won't be here long, so the best option is to swing for the fences and give it a shot. That's the only way to really ensure their futures imp. I don't see us having this high of a pick again, sure they could sign a FA QB to a massive QB next year but that won't do any good.
Quote:
has decided Maye is his guy. (JJM is likely a fallback in case the Commanders nab him at #2).
At what cost? To me, the tea leaves are saying the Giants ABSOLUTELY want to come out of rd 1 with a QB.
This isn't like 2004, when they still had Kerry Collins on the roster.
They have diddly squat going forward. They've boxed themselves into a corner, so it WILL take a king's ransom to get their guy.
However, if JS is right and the guy is what they hoped he would be, nobody will give a damn about the draft capital.
If he's wrong, he's canned.
I think if he doesn't take a QB Dabs and Schoen both won't be here long, if he takes a bad qb they won't be here long, so the best option is to swing for the fences and give it a shot. That's the only way to really ensure their futures imp. I don't see us having this high of a pick again, sure they could sign a FA QB to a massive QB next year but that won't do any good.
Either they are successful in trading up or they're not, I don't expect their record to be much better next year.
Quote:
In comment 16456475 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
has decided Maye is his guy. (JJM is likely a fallback in case the Commanders nab him at #2).
At what cost? To me, the tea leaves are saying the Giants ABSOLUTELY want to come out of rd 1 with a QB.
This isn't like 2004, when they still had Kerry Collins on the roster.
They have diddly squat going forward. They've boxed themselves into a corner, so it WILL take a king's ransom to get their guy.
However, if JS is right and the guy is what they hoped he would be, nobody will give a damn about the draft capital.
If he's wrong, he's canned.
I think if he doesn't take a QB Dabs and Schoen both won't be here long, if he takes a bad qb they won't be here long, so the best option is to swing for the fences and give it a shot. That's the only way to really ensure their futures imp. I don't see us having this high of a pick again, sure they could sign a FA QB to a massive QB next year but that won't do any good.
Either they are successful in trading up or they're not, I don't expect their record to be much better next year.
Yeah, they have a longer leash with a rookie QB in place though. And if the rookie comes in and plays well then they will definitely have a better record than without him. I give them 2 years if they don't get a promising QB in the draft. With a promising QB in the draft, they will get 3+ years.
While having great pieces and no QB is a disaster, so is having a great QB and nothing around him. Schoen is getting paid to get a QB AND PIECES.
Getting your favorite QB and not having a 2024 2nd and 3rd and no 2025 and 2026 first rounder is as much or more of a disaster. Look at how pedestrian Mahomes looked in the SB versus Tampa with both his starting tackles out.
Put Mahomes on the 2023 Giants and how many more games do they win? 2? 3? Very likely still miss the playoffs.
While having great pieces and no QB is a disaster, so is having a great QB and nothing around him. Schoen is getting paid to get a QB AND PIECES.
Getting your favorite QB and not having a 2024 2nd and 3rd and no 2025 and 2026 first rounder is as much or more of a disaster. Look at how pedestrian Mahomes looked in the SB versus Tampa with both his starting tackles out.
Put Mahomes on the 2023 Giants and how many more games do they win? 2? 3? Very likely still miss the playoffs.
You have to give to get...
While having great pieces and no QB is a disaster, so is having a great QB and nothing around him. Schoen is getting paid to get a QB AND PIECES.
Getting your favorite QB and not having a 2024 2nd and 3rd and no 2025 and 2026 first rounder is as much or more of a disaster. Look at how pedestrian Mahomes looked in the SB versus Tampa with both his starting tackles out.
Put Mahomes on the 2023 Giants and how many more games do they win? 2? 3? Very likely still miss the playoffs.
They wouldn't trade anymore than pick 6, 47 2025 1st and 3rd or pick 6 2025 1st, 2nd and 3rd. I know that's still a lot, but they aren't trading pick 6 and 2 future 1sts plus
While having great pieces and no QB is a disaster, so is having a great QB and nothing around him. Schoen is getting paid to get a QB AND PIECES.
Getting your favorite QB and not having a 2024 2nd and 3rd and no 2025 and 2026 first rounder is as much or more of a disaster. Look at how pedestrian Mahomes looked in the SB versus Tampa with both his starting tackles out.
Put Mahomes on the 2023 Giants and how many more games do they win? 2? 3? Very likely still miss the playoffs.
You don't think the Giants with Mahomes would make the playoffs? They won 6 games with some of the worst QB play imaginaable. They'd easily make the playoffs with Mahomes