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NFT: Historical stuff you find weirdly surreal/UFB.

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/4/2024 7:37 pm
Just finished Jon Meachem's biography on Thomas Jefferson, 'The Art of Power'. I got it as a Christmas present years ago, but didn't start reading it until a few weeks ago. Great read.

Anyways-& I knew this, but had forgotten it-I am blown away that both Jefferson & John Adams died on 7/4/1826, 50 years to the day of the ratification of the Declaration of Independence. That is fucking crazy. If you pitched that to Hollywood-that two of the men assigned to write said document, the 2nd/3rd POTUS, friends then bitter rivals then friends-died on the same day exactly 50 years after the document was ratified, you'd be laughed out of the office.

Another historical thing I find 'Wait, WTF?' is that in the late 1890s, someone-his name escapes me-wrote a book called 'Futility'. It's about a ship called the 'Titan', the most luxurious ship in the world & considered 'unsinkable'. Anyways, the ship hits an iceberg in the North Atlantic in April & sinks with a tremendous loss of life because they didn't have enough lifeboats for all aboard. Meanwhile, fast forward to April 1912 & Titanic.

Perhaps a weird topic, Haha, but as a history guy...the sort of stuff that makes me shake my head & go, 'Wow. That's crazy.'

Anyone have any adds?
The Union had cypher keys  
section125 : 4/4/2024 7:41 pm : link
during the Civil War. Because any telegraph wire could be tapped into since they were strung in trees and polls any one could pirate the info.
How the pyramids, Sphinx and monoliths got built.  
mittenedman : 4/4/2024 7:44 pm : link
How vases that appear to be from predynastic times are so symmetrical the only explanation is they were carved by a computer.

Legit evidence there was an advanced technological civilization - more advanced than ours today - a long, long time ago.
RE: How the pyramids, Sphinx and monoliths got built.  
Darwinian : 4/4/2024 7:54 pm : link
In comment 16456861 mittenedman said:
Quote:
How vases that appear to be from predynastic times are so symmetrical the only explanation is they were carved by a computer.

Legit evidence there was an advanced technological civilization - more advanced than ours today - a long, long time ago.


There is no legit evidence of a more advanced civilization than ours having existed a long time ago.
RE: How the pyramids, Sphinx and monoliths got built.  
section125 : 4/4/2024 7:55 pm : link
In comment 16456861 mittenedman said:
Quote:
How vases that appear to be from predynastic times are so symmetrical the only explanation is they were carved by a computer.

Legit evidence there was an advanced technological civilization - more advanced than ours today - a long, long time ago.


I'd like to believe in pre-historic advanced civilizations, except where are the remains of these people? I.E, Younger Dryas impact 12k years ago....where did all these advance people go - their remains? Why is Egypt the only place it seems these advanced people lived?
an advanced ancient civilization is fun to think about  
Darwinian : 4/4/2024 8:08 pm : link
but if we're being real, humans have been around for about 300,000 years. If there were any civilizations as advanced as ours we would have found evidence of cities, concrete, steel, etc etc. And all we find are stones, caves and huts. Our understanding of the fossil record is pretty good over the last 10 million years. If there was a great civilization prior to that, it wouldn't be human. Maybe lizard people. But they wouldn't be nearly as advanced and global as we are, because evidence of that civilization would be apparent even after 100 million years.
The Adan’s Jefferson death date always gets me  
cosmicj : 4/4/2024 8:37 pm : link
One really bizarre tale of history is the assassination of Rasputin in 1916. In fact, Rasputin’s whole life is bizarre.

Another one is the tragic assassination attempt of Archduke Ferdinand. The first attempt by the plotters failed. So what does the assassin do? Stop off at a coffee shop for a cup. Just what I’d do after attempting a major assassination! Then the archduke’s car pulls up, does an awkward slow K turn and the assassin gets a second shot at the archduke. Clownish incompetence on both sides.
The Lincoln/Kennedy stuff is crazy coincidental  
Anakim : 4/4/2024 8:54 pm : link
.
r/historyporn on reddit  
j_rud : 4/4/2024 8:56 pm : link
is great for this kind of stuff.
John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and James Monroe  
JerrysKids : 4/4/2024 9:09 pm : link
all died on July 4th another oddity.
The Curse of Tippecanoe  
JerrysKids : 4/4/2024 9:11 pm : link
1840: William Henry Harrison died in office
in 1841.
1860: Abraham Lincoln was assassinated in
1865 (reelected for a second term in 1864).
1880: James A. Garfield was assassinated in
1881.
1900: William McKinley was assassinated in
1901 (reelected for a second term in 1900).
1920: Warren G. Harding died in office in
1923.
1940: Franklin D. Roosevelt died in office in
1945 (reelected for a third term in 1940, and
fourth term in 1944).
1960: John F. Kennedy was assassinated in
1963.
1980: Ronald Reagan was shot in the chest in
1981 and survived.
2000: George W. Bush finished his two terms
with no major injuries.
Edwin Boothe, JWB's brother, saved Abraham Lincoln's last remaining  
Anakim : 4/4/2024 9:12 pm : link
kid.
RE: Edwin Boothe, JWB's brother, saved Abraham Lincoln's last remaining  
JerrysKids : 4/4/2024 9:21 pm : link
In comment 16456942 Anakim said:
Quote:
kid.


Thats nuts
Super Bowl XLII For Me  
Trainmaster : 4/4/2024 10:15 pm : link
18-1 baby!

In 1991, a man named Steve DeOssie  
Eli2020 : 4/4/2024 10:54 pm : link
Snapped the game winning field goal for a NY Giants’ win against the SF 49ers, and they went to the Super Bowl.

Nearly 20 years to the day, his son Zak did the same thing.

Is this thread meant for coincidences?  
Mike from SI : 4/4/2024 11:25 pm : link
Because I can think of a few surreal historical things that many of us witnessed.
Teddy Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln in the same photo  
averagejoe : 4/5/2024 12:11 am : link
There is a photo of the Lincoln funeral parade passing the Roosevelt mansion in NYC in 1865. In the 2nd story window two boys can be seen. They are Theodore Roosevelt and his brother . Always found that interesting .
Also Robert Lincoln was present for three Presidential assassinations  
averagejoe : 4/5/2024 12:23 am : link
He was at his Fathers side when he died after the shooting at Ford's theater. He was at the Washington train station when Garfield was shot. And he was in Buffalo at the Pan-American Exposition when McKinley was shot .


Unlucky dude .
It's not really in line with the other stuff in this thread  
moespree : 4/5/2024 12:28 am : link
But I find Napoleon's retreat from Russia surreal.

Hundreds of thousands of soldiers, cooks, stragglers and who knows what else marching thousands of miles in ice, snow, wind, and below zero temps for days and days and days on end while also being hit and run by Kossacks and fired upon by Russian artillery.

It's a miracle literally any of them survived.
The leaders of  
Pete in MD : 4/5/2024 3:16 am : link
three of the major combatants in WW1 were first cousins. Two on one side, one on the other. King and Tsar vs Kaiser.
War 1812  
Chocco : 4/5/2024 3:24 am : link
Washington DC. Was captured and set ablaze. The damage to Washington and America would have been much worse had the city not been hit by a hurricane and/or a tornado at that same time. Some say it saved the city, some say it drove the British out of Washington. Whatever really happened the rare DC storm had a significant impact on the city and likely the war.
RE: Teddy Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln in the same photo  
bluefin : 4/5/2024 3:42 am : link
In comment 16457033 averagejoe said:
Quote:
There is a photo of the Lincoln funeral parade passing the Roosevelt mansion in NYC in 1865. In the 2nd story window two boys can be seen. They are Theodore Roosevelt and his brother . Always found that interesting .

I’ve seen this photo in McCullogh’s TR bio, I think it was Union Sq. Two American titans.
RE: RE: Edwin Boothe, JWB's brother, saved Abraham Lincoln's last remaining  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/5/2024 6:03 am : link
In comment 16456954 JerrysKids said:
Quote:
In comment 16456942 Anakim said:


Quote:


kid.



Thats nuts


That happened a couple of months before the assassination too.
RE: an advanced ancient civilization is fun to think about  
bluefin : 4/5/2024 7:22 am : link
In comment 16456891 Darwinian said:
Quote:
but if we're being real, humans have been around for about 300,000 years. If there were any civilizations as advanced as ours we would have found evidence of cities, concrete, steel, etc etc. And all we find are stones, caves and huts. Our understanding of the fossil record is pretty good over the last 10 million years. If there was a great civilization prior to that, it wouldn't be human. Maybe lizard people. But they wouldn't be nearly as advanced and global as we are, because evidence of that civilization would be apparent even after 100 million years.

lol
RE: War 1812  
bluefin : 4/5/2024 7:36 am : link
In comment 16457050 Chocco said:
Quote:
Washington DC. Was captured and set ablaze. The damage to Washington and America would have been much worse had the city not been hit by a hurricane and/or a tornado at that same time. Some say it saved the city, some say it drove the British out of Washington. Whatever really happened the rare DC storm had a significant impact on the city and likely the war.

never heard this one - that’s truly surreal
RE: The leaders of  
section125 : 4/5/2024 7:41 am : link
In comment 16457048 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
three of the major combatants in WW1 were first cousins. Two on one side, one on the other. King and Tsar vs Kaiser.


Weren't they Queen Victoria's grandchildren?
RE: RE: The leaders of  
Pete in MD : 4/5/2024 9:50 am : link
In comment 16457085 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16457048 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


three of the major combatants in WW1 were first cousins. Two on one side, one on the other. King and Tsar vs Kaiser.



Weren't they Queen Victoria's grandchildren?

Yup, they were.
Getting back to the deaths of Adams and Jefferson  
Marty in Albany : 4/5/2024 9:57 am : link
At the time of their deaths, almost 200 years ago, the USA was not the global power that it is today.

For many Americans who were alive in 1826, the Revolutionary war was not just a historical event, it was a part of their actual experience, the same way that the Vietnam and Afghanistan conflicts are for current military veterans and their families.

In 1826, Americans were still in doubt as to the fate of the United States, and whether the separation from England was in their country's best interest.

The deaths of Adams and Jefferson was received as God's confirmation of his suport for the existence of the United States and his blessing upon its people. To Americans, the deaths were not a coincidence. It was a sign from God.
RE: The Adan’s Jefferson death date always gets me  
Gap92 : 4/5/2024 10:02 am : link
In comment 16456917 cosmicj said:
Quote:


Another one is the tragic assassination attempt of Archduke Ferdinand. The first attempt by the plotters failed. So what does the assassin do? Stop off at a coffee shop for a cup. Just what I’d do after attempting a major assassination! Then the archduke’s car pulls up, does an awkward slow K turn and the assassin gets a second shot at the archduke. Clownish incompetence on both sides.


That was the first thing I thought of. The car is taking the wrong route and stops right in front of Princip to do a K turn. What does the world look like if that car doesn't stop right there? Maybe there's no WWI and then if there's no WWI, there's no WW2, and so on.
If you ever read  
pjcas18 : 4/5/2024 10:06 am : link
any books about the Revolutionary War there are several occasions that are described by the writers as attributed to "divine intervention"

the retreat from Bunker Hill, NYC, even the crossing of the Delaware...and more

The war was practically hanging on by a thread on many occasions and expected action by the British could have easily ended it but in some cases clouds suddenly rolled in that helped influence the British not to advance, or snow fell that covered tracks or ice froze or thawed to help move artillery hundreds of miles in a period of time that didn't have trucks or vehicles.

the book Angel in the Whirlwind is great (dry - almost like reading a textbook) but does a great job recounting much of this as is the book 1776 (which is an easier read but obviously just covers that one year).

many people are convinced god had a hand in our freedom and I used to think Miracle on Ice was very possibly the biggest upset in history - ever - even more than the battle of Thermopylae - but now I am convinced the American Revolution is the biggest upset.

Speaking of that...  
pjcas18 : 4/5/2024 10:14 am : link
the battle of Thermopylae has to be considered surreal.

While no one anymore believes it was really 300 Greeks vs 1,000,000 or more Persians it was probably reliably 300 (Spartans) and more various other Greeks (but not much more than 1,000 or so) vs 150,000 Persians which, if it is maybe not the definition of surreal, it's still pretty f-ing badass (and could have even been better if not for a traitor).
RE: RE: The Adan’s Jefferson death date always gets me  
DaveW2 : 4/5/2024 11:23 am : link
In comment 16457183 Gap92 said:
Quote:
In comment 16456917 cosmicj said:


Quote:




Another one is the tragic assassination attempt of Archduke Ferdinand. The first attempt by the plotters failed. So what does the assassin do? Stop off at a coffee shop for a cup. Just what I’d do after attempting a major assassination! Then the archduke’s car pulls up, does an awkward slow K turn and the assassin gets a second shot at the archduke. Clownish incompetence on both sides.



That was the first thing I thought of. The car is taking the wrong route and stops right in front of Princip to do a K turn. What does the world look like if that car doesn't stop right there? Maybe there's no WWI and then if there's no WWI, there's no WW2, and so on.


Ok, so how can we blame this on Daniel Jones ?
trump is the republican candidate  
Bingo : 4/5/2024 2:28 pm : link
How on earth?
President John Tyler's  
NINEster : 4/10/2024 4:33 pm : link
grandson is still alive today at age 95.

Tyler became President in 1841, and was born a year after George Washington became President.
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