This is subject to him getting by WSH and being available when NE is on the clock.
| In fact, one league source said he believes that if Maye somehow gets past the Washington Commanders at No. 2 — which is far from a certainty — the Giants would consider making an aggressive offer to the New England Patriots to move up from No. 6 to No. 3 to draft him. It's not clear if New York would be willing to do the same for LSU's Jayden Daniels or Michigan's J.J. McCarthy, the other two top quarterbacks likely to be available at that spot. |
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Vacchiano: Giants would consider making an aggressive offer for Maye.
Would be more apt.
Vacchiano: Giants would consider making an aggressive offer for Maye.
Would be more apt.
I guess it maye or maye not happen.
Heh heh.
And they are right-handed. ;)
But it's bizarre with these lazy Jones comps. To conclude this, it seriously suggests you never watched Maye play and/or don't know what you are watching.
Maye makes plays and throws that Jones couldn't make in his zero-stars imagination.
100% agree. Go get your guy and let’s FINALLY move on.
Vacchiano: Giants would consider making an aggressive offer for Maye.
Would be more apt.
Fair and noted.
My final guess is Giants trade a 2024 3rd, 5th, and 2025 1st.
I’m sure if the Pats ask for the 47th they’d do it but I’m not sure they need to. Pats only moving back 3 slots.
My guess is moving up for Maye is Plan A. Everything else is Plan B. But the problems are that the Commanders may take him at #2, and if they don't, NE might at #3. And even if neither does, AZ might prefer to trade with Minnesota, who almost certainly would take him at #4.
Imagine what he’s saying behind closed doors.
Look at Houston last year- the owner wanted a QB and he got a QB (and it worked out pretty damn good)
If people dont think there was a divide between the front office and ownership- they immediately traded up to 3 to get who the front office wanted.
When teams without a Quarterback draft this high- they are taking a QB.
The Giants hope for Maye is it goes Daniels/JJM in some order at 2/3 because neither of those teams are passing on a QB.
Its common sense. And the “they may not be high on the other QBs” doesn’t pass the smell test here since these QBs are universally lauded. All 4 of them.
Need + Ownership demands = not trading.
The Jets gave up three seconds for Darnold, moving from 6 to 3. So it’s pretty much that. Where are you getting three firsts from?
You might be right. But I think WFT takes Daniels. 20 days until we know for sure! Haha.
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move up is going to require #47. I also don't see Schoen trading our #1, #2, and #3 in 2025. People are just grossly underestimating what it would costa to move to #3. The compensation would have to be historic, and could easily require our #1 in 2025 and 2026 as part of any package of other picks and players. And that assume that NE would even trade with us or anyone else. Eliot would be an idiot if he did so. The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a franchise QB and are in a position to draft a potential one at your pick.
The Jets gave up three seconds for Darnold, moving from 6 to 3. So it’s pretty much that. Where are you getting three firsts from?
Different situation. The Colts didn't need a QB in 2018 as much as the Patriots do now. Luck missed the entire 2017 season, but the Colts still saw him as their franchise QB. And he was comeback player of the year in 2018 before retiring ahead of the2019 season.
The Patriots could end up trading a pick that becomes a franchise QB for another team. That would get Eliot fired. Trading down to six also puts the Patriots at risk for missing out on all the "big four" QBs. There is absolutely no guarantee they could then trade up to #4 with AZ to get McCarthy, even if they wanted to do so. The cost to get them to incur those risks will be enormous.
Imagine what he’s saying behind closed doors.
Look at Houston last year- the owner wanted a QB and he got a QB (and it worked out pretty damn good)
If people dont think there was a divide between the front office and ownership- they immediately traded up to 3 to get who the front office wanted.
When teams without a Quarterback draft this high- they are taking a QB.
The Giants hope for Maye is it goes Daniels/JJM in some order at 2/3 because neither of those teams are passing on a QB.
Its common sense. And the “they may not be high on the other QBs” doesn’t pass the smell test here since these QBs are universally lauded. All 4 of them.
Need + Ownership demands = not trading.
Excellent analysis. It was also well known that Snyder insisted the Commanders (then Redskins) draft Haskins.
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'What? That's stupid! We got the best QB in the division in Daniel Jones.'-Jack Stroud.
We do! I should charge you for what I have taught you here!
I somewhat admire the troll in you. Key word, somewhat.
Fair and noted.
Thanks for posting. Ralph V has sources in the building.
However, I agree with others who think Maye goes to Washington at 2. I think the more the Commanders look at Daniels, the more they'll prefer Maye.
My guess is moving up for Maye is Plan A. Everything else is Plan B. But the problems are that the Commanders may take him at #2, and if they don't, NE might at #3. And even if neither does, AZ might prefer to trade with Minnesota, who almost certainly would take him at #4.
All these variables which are out of the Giants control. Doesn't looking promising to me, but I'm confident the Giants have a number of alternate draft plans.
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In comment 16458069 AcidTest said:
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move up is going to require #47. I also don't see Schoen trading our #1, #2, and #3 in 2025. People are just grossly underestimating what it would costa to move to #3. The compensation would have to be historic, and could easily require our #1 in 2025 and 2026 as part of any package of other picks and players. And that assume that NE would even trade with us or anyone else. Eliot would be an idiot if he did so. The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a franchise QB and are in a position to draft a potential one at your pick.
The Jets gave up three seconds for Darnold, moving from 6 to 3. So it’s pretty much that. Where are you getting three firsts from?
Different situation. The Colts didn't need a QB in 2018 as much as the Patriots do now. Luck missed the entire 2017 season, but the Colts still saw him as their franchise QB. And he was comeback player of the year in 2018 before retiring ahead of the2019 season.
The Patriots could end up trading a pick that becomes a franchise QB for another team. That would get Eliot fired. Trading down to six also puts the Patriots at risk for missing out on all the "big four" QBs. There is absolutely no guarantee they could then trade up to #4 with AZ to get McCarthy, even if they wanted to do so. The cost to get them to incur those risks will be enormous.
They can ask, I’m sure the colts asked for more too.
I don’t actually think we will be doing this because I believe the Pats will take a QB but it shouldn’t take 2 extra 1sts to move up 3 spots. That means Minnesota can’t come close which I don’t buy either.
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Fair and noted.
Thanks for posting. Ralph V has sources in the building.
Methinks not...
"League source". If it was a source inside the building he would have said that...
Also, it's pretty clear some of these long time old beats don't have jack for sources with this new regime...just based on how different every report is.
You’re pulling this out of your ass. You and everyone else on this board has zero idea what the ask is or is going to be.
If NE is willing to trade the pick that means the QB they want is not there. So if they want Daniels, everyone here should be hoping Wash takes Daniels so the pick is open. Otherwise Maye is gone (bc Wash picked him) and the Giants are fighting the Vikings (who have a better deal to offer) for McCarthy.
I watched Maye for 3 games and feel the same way. Did not see anything special about him at all. I was afraid he would drop to us. And I got a DJ vibe as well. But if that is their guy go get him .
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In comment 16458057 Sean said:
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Fair and noted.
Thanks for posting. Ralph V has sources in the building.
Methinks not...
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In fact, one league source said
"League source". If it was a source inside the building he would have said that...
Also, it's pretty clear some of these long time old beats don't have jack for sources with this new regime...just based on how different every report is.
Another "source" post, the Giants are not trading up for a QB. These beats are trying to stay relevant during the wild draft rumor season. 6 will be a WR, QB down the line.
Vacchiano: Giants would consider making an aggressive offer for Maye.
Would be more apt.
Yeah substituting “expected” for consider dramatically changes what he said
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In comment 16458069 AcidTest said:
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move up is going to require #47. I also don't see Schoen trading our #1, #2, and #3 in 2025. People are just grossly underestimating what it would costa to move to #3. The compensation would have to be historic, and could easily require our #1 in 2025 and 2026 as part of any package of other picks and players. And that assume that NE would even trade with us or anyone else. Eliot would be an idiot if he did so. The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a franchise QB and are in a position to draft a potential one at your pick.
The Jets gave up three seconds for Darnold, moving from 6 to 3. So it’s pretty much that. Where are you getting three firsts from?
Different situation. The Colts didn't need a QB in 2018 as much as the Patriots do now. Luck missed the entire 2017 season, but the Colts still saw him as their franchise QB. And he was comeback player of the year in 2018 before retiring ahead of the2019 season.
The Patriots could end up trading a pick that becomes a franchise QB for another team. That would get Eliot fired. Trading down to six also puts the Patriots at risk for missing out on all the "big four" QBs. There is absolutely no guarantee they could then trade up to #4 with AZ to get McCarthy, even if they wanted to do so. The cost to get them to incur those risks will be enormous.
It doesn’t matter if they NEED a qb. If they are willing to move it’s because they don’t like maye and won’t force a pick so they slide a little and add extra capital.
I’ve seen you say on several threads multiple players and multiple firsts… it’s just false. It won’t be a “historic” package
47 and 2025 1st and 3rd is MORE then enough.
In a round about way, they all said that Maye has the most upside of the QBs based on traits. Might be a little uneven out of the gate and he’s going to attempt some throws where you go “what the hell??” But he’s going to attempt those throws because he can.
Simmons was out of his mind that the Pats would pass on Maye if he’s there.
HOWEVER, it's out of the Giants hands.
First, the Commanders have to pass on him.
Second, the Patriots have to decide not to select him.
Third, the Patriots have to be more willing to deal with the Giants than the Vikings.
There's a chance, but a lot has to happen.
HOWEVER, it's out of the Giants hands.
First, the Commanders have to pass on him.
Second, the Patriots have to decide not to select him.
Third, the Patriots have to be more willing to deal with the Giants than the Vikings.
There's a chance, but a lot has to happen.
Do you believe that McCarthy is not in consideration?
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move up is going to require #47. I also don't see Schoen trading our #1, #2, and #3 in 2025. People are just grossly underestimating what it would costa to move to #3. The compensation would have to be historic, and could easily require our #1 in 2025 and 2026 as part of any package of other picks and players. And that assume that NE would even trade with us or anyone else. Eliot would be an idiot if he did so. The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a franchise QB and are in a position to draft a potential one at your pick.
You’re pulling this out of your ass. You and everyone else on this board has zero idea what the ask is or is going to be.
If NE is willing to trade the pick that means the QB they want is not there. So if they want Daniels, everyone here should be hoping Wash takes Daniels so the pick is open. Otherwise Maye is gone (bc Wash picked him) and the Giants are fighting the Vikings (who have a better deal to offer) for McCarthy.
It's a sports board. People offer their opinions. Mine on this issue is that the compensation required to move up to #3 will likely be a lot greater than what most people apparently believe.
HOWEVER, it's out of the Giants hands.
First, the Commanders have to pass on him.
Second, the Patriots have to decide not to select him.
Third, the Patriots have to be more willing to deal with the Giants than the Vikings.
There's a chance, but a lot has to happen.
Excellent summary.
Things change. They may like others now.
But I can only react to what I've heard. I do wonder if Maye has been a smoke screen, to get Washington and the Patriots to look at him more.
The question you really are getting at is this: if the Giants do they try to get McCarthy? I don't know. I am not sure I would give up next year's #1 for McCarthy.
I would not mind giving up next years 1 for Maye.
I'm a huge supporter of moving on from Daniel Jones.
I also know that if you don't have a QB, nothing else matters.
But I also know that unless you are completely sure of the QB, then sacrificing future picks usually is not worth the risk. Look at recent NFL history of teams trading up in the top 10 for QBs.
So unless the Giants are completely sold on someone, then may have to try again next year. (and take some QB this year later in the draft)
I'm a huge supporter of moving on from Daniel Jones.
I also know that if you don't have a QB, nothing else matters.
But I also know that unless you are completely sure of the QB, then sacrificing future picks usually is not worth the risk. Look at recent NFL history of teams trading up in the top 10 for QBs.
So unless the Giants are completely sold on someone, then may have to try again next year. (and take some QB this year later in the draft)
Maye has been my #1, Williams #2 but knowing he would never be there for us and then JJM. I think JJM is more field general than Maye'a Allen play maker type BUT, field generals have been HOF'ers so if that is our QB type- field general- then so be it..
That being said I want Maye. I will own down the road if we get Jim and it doesn't workout but I am truly on the Maye train!
I'm a huge supporter of moving on from Daniel Jones.
I also know that if you don't have a QB, nothing else matters.
But I also know that unless you are completely sure of the QB, then sacrificing future picks usually is not worth the risk. Look at recent NFL history of teams trading up in the top 10 for QBs.
So unless the Giants are completely sold on someone, then may have to try again next year. (and take some QB this year later in the draft)
Do you think if, and it’s a huge if, but if Jones is healthy going into the season, and the Giants can’t get the QB they want, and are able to draft a top receiver, a good running back, and the offensive line is better, do you think the Giants can win with Jones?
I know it’s an unpopular question, and most fans are ready to move on, but just wondering your opinion?
However, there are bigger issues here.
(1) Jones can't stay healthy.
(2) Jones is probably one neck injury away from retirement. Hell, there have been rumors that the neck is still a problem.
(3) Jones, a QB who is at his best when posing the threat as a runner, is coming off an ACL.
(4) Jones was effective in 2022 when stupid defenses kept failing to keep the backside defenders at home to stop him from running. That's not sustainable.
(5) Do you honestly see Jones holding up the Lombardi?
I would not mind giving up next years 1 for Maye.
I don't have any idea what Schoen and Daboll want in a QB since the decision to re-sign Jones.
But I absolutely like the toolbox that Maye has and would think the Dabka playbook goes from pamphlet size for Jones to War & Peace for Maye.
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IMO. Maye and Williams are the ones who fit what the Giants want. They have the Josh Allen traits - big arm, mobile, great at improvising, and gunslingers who will attack a defense vertically.
I would not mind giving up next years 1 for Maye.
I don't have any idea what Schoen and Daboll want in a QB since the decision to re-sign Jones.
But I absolutely like the toolbox that Maye has and would think the Dabka playbook goes from pamphlet size for Jones to War & Peace for Maye.
Yeah, people are way too stuck on Allen as Daboll's only mold for a qb. He can make a lot of molds work imo. And the McCarthy stuff is not just a smokescreen imp lol
However, there are bigger issues here.
(1) Jones can't stay healthy.
(2) Jones is probably one neck injury away from retirement. Hell, there have been rumors that the neck is still a problem.
(3) Jones, a QB who is at his best when posing the threat as a runner, is coming off an ACL.
(4) Jones was effective in 2022 when stupid defenses kept failing to keep the backside defenders at home to stop him from running. That's not sustainable.
(5) Do you honestly see Jones holding up the Lombardi?
I think the better way to say this is can the Giants win with Jones, yes they can win games with Jones. But, do the Giants win because of Jones, hell no.
Add in all of the things Eric listed and in too many categories Jones is a net negative. Too many injuries, too many almost plays and quite frankly too many stupid plays says it is time to get a guy who CAN be the reason we won a gane..
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We know the Giants "can win" with Jones because we saw it in 2022 with a team filled with holes.
However, there are bigger issues here.
(1) Jones can't stay healthy.
(2) Jones is probably one neck injury away from retirement. Hell, there have been rumors that the neck is still a problem.
(3) Jones, a QB who is at his best when posing the threat as a runner, is coming off an ACL.
(4) Jones was effective in 2022 when stupid defenses kept failing to keep the backside defenders at home to stop him from running. That's not sustainable.
(5) Do you honestly see Jones holding up the Lombardi?
I think the better way to say this is can the Giants win with Jones, yes they can win games with Jones. But, do the Giants win because of Jones, hell no.
Add in all of the things Eric listed and in too many categories Jones is a net negative. Too many injuries, too many almost plays and quite frankly too many stupid plays says it is time to get a guy who CAN be the reason we won a gane..
What's the point of splitting hairs about Jones. After a hot start in 2022, where he didn't even pass well, but ran very well and won games, teams figured out his to defend him and he was terrible in the 2nd half of the season. Good teams can shut him down. He has no second act. You can't win anything with him.
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In comment 16458074 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 16458069 AcidTest said:
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move up is going to require #47. I also don't see Schoen trading our #1, #2, and #3 in 2025. People are just grossly underestimating what it would costa to move to #3. The compensation would have to be historic, and could easily require our #1 in 2025 and 2026 as part of any package of other picks and players. And that assume that NE would even trade with us or anyone else. Eliot would be an idiot if he did so. The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a franchise QB and are in a position to draft a potential one at your pick.
The Jets gave up three seconds for Darnold, moving from 6 to 3. So it’s pretty much that. Where are you getting three firsts from?
Different situation. The Colts didn't need a QB in 2018 as much as the Patriots do now. Luck missed the entire 2017 season, but the Colts still saw him as their franchise QB. And he was comeback player of the year in 2018 before retiring ahead of the2019 season.
The Patriots could end up trading a pick that becomes a franchise QB for another team. That would get Eliot fired. Trading down to six also puts the Patriots at risk for missing out on all the "big four" QBs. There is absolutely no guarantee they could then trade up to #4 with AZ to get McCarthy, even if they wanted to do so. The cost to get them to incur those risks will be enormous.
It doesn’t matter if they NEED a qb. If they are willing to move it’s because they don’t like maye and won’t force a pick so they slide a little and add extra capital.
I’ve seen you say on several threads multiple players and multiple firsts… it’s just false. It won’t be a “historic” package
47 and 2025 1st and 3rd is MORE then enough.
I hope you're right. I don't think any of these QBs are worthing giving up that amount of draft capital, but if the Giants are convinced Maye is a franchise QB, then what you are proposing would be more than reasonable. I do think #47, #70, and our #1 and #2 next year is more realistic.
My reference to including players was sarcasm, although somebody posted a few weeks ago they heard that Neal and Ojulari would have to be included in any trade package.
My reference to including players was sarcasm, although somebody posted a few weeks ago they heard that Neal and Ojulari would have to be included in any trade package.
If we can keep picks and offer up other sweeteners like actual NFL players, I would absolutely make almost the entire roster expendable.
KT should be at the top of that list, btw. If another team thinks they can unlock Neal, he's an easy offer.
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In comment 16458069 AcidTest said:
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move up is going to require #47. I also don't see Schoen trading our #1, #2, and #3 in 2025. People are just grossly underestimating what it would costa to move to #3. The compensation would have to be historic, and could easily require our #1 in 2025 and 2026 as part of any package of other picks and players. And that assume that NE would even trade with us or anyone else. Eliot would be an idiot if he did so. The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a franchise QB and are in a position to draft a potential one at your pick.
The Jets gave up three seconds for Darnold, moving from 6 to 3. So it’s pretty much that. Where are you getting three firsts from?
Different situation. The Colts didn't need a QB in 2018 as much as the Patriots do now. Luck missed the entire 2017 season, but the Colts still saw him as their franchise QB. And he was comeback player of the year in 2018 before retiring ahead of the2019 season.
The Patriots could end up trading a pick that becomes a franchise QB for another team. That would get Eliot fired. Trading down to six also puts the Patriots at risk for missing out on all the "big four" QBs. There is absolutely no guarantee they could then trade up to #4 with AZ to get McCarthy, even if they wanted to do so. The cost to get them to incur those risks will be enormous.
If they wanted to trade back up to 4 for JJM, they could have a deal in place with AZ to do it before accepting our trade up.
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move up is going to require #47. I also don't see Schoen trading our #1, #2, and #3 in 2025. People are just grossly underestimating what it would costa to move to #3. The compensation would have to be historic, and could easily require our #1 in 2025 and 2026 as part of any package of other picks and players. And that assume that NE would even trade with us or anyone else. Eliot would be an idiot if he did so. The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a franchise QB and are in a position to draft a potential one at your pick.
The Jets gave up three seconds for Darnold, moving from 6 to 3. So it’s pretty much that. Where are you getting three firsts from?
It cost 3 2nds and their pick 6. I don't agree with Acid on what the cost would be to trade with AZ but he is right for the trade with NE. It would be pick 6, 47 2025 1st and 3rd or so, or pick 6 2025 1st 2nd and 3rd (somewhere in that ballpark.
Alrighty then, I'm glad that's settled.
I don't love Maye, but I would love the conviction to start something new.
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and, he's had strong info in recent years.
I don't love Maye, but I would love the conviction to start something new.
Agreed, I'd just hope to keep as much draft capital this year we need it. We could make up for a lot of lost draft capital next year with more cap space to plug holes in free agency.
That said, there could be other dependencies. Most notably --the Combine medical rechecks are this weekend. If a target player has one of these (in the example I gave about Minn --that would be ANY of the top 4 QBs), a team would not make a move until he's been cleared in re-check process.
Just something to keep an eye on. If I get some time, I'd like to go back and see in any pre-draft trades happened post re-check date. But it's a milestone to be mindful of for any of us anxiously waiting fireworks.
Combine Medical Re-checks - ( New Window )
If the Commnanders take Daniels the draft for the Giants becomes really interesting, because I do believe Maye is the guy they really want.
IF Maye makes it to 3, Schoen might have to cough up a little more than what has already been offered. Schoen likely has a hard line he's unwilling to cross.
Eventually, the details will come out, and in a few years, we'll know if the cost was worth it.
Things change. They may like others now.
But I can only react to what I've heard. I do wonder if Maye has been a smoke screen, to get Washington and the Patriots to look at him more.
The question you really are getting at is this: if the Giants do they try to get McCarthy? I don't know. I am not sure I would give up next year's #1 for McCarthy.
Thanks.
I don’t think the Giants need to give up a #1 for McCarthy. I think he will be there at 6 or worst case via a small trade up with Chargers or Cards for 2nd or 3rd. I personally do not see the Cards or Chargers wanting to trade out of the WR/OL spot given that is their need, they have franchise QBs, those players at 4-5 will have elite grades at those spots and they both have extra draft picks already.
What I don’t know is of the Giants would draft McCarthy at 6 if on the board.
It's assumed Washington will take Maye or Daniels (those saying one or the other really don't know).
If Washington takes Maye, the Giants may be shit out of luck.
The next domino is the Patriots. Maye? Daniels? Trade down?
The belief is the Vikings will trade up to #4 or #5 to take the 4th QB.
My guess is Minnesota and New England ultimately make a deal and when Arizona's pick comes up three of the four top QBs are gone.
If the quarterback the Giants covet is there, I think Arizona will make the deal with the Giants.
They'll be guaranteed one of MHJr, Nabers, and Odunze at that point. And the more I think about it, the more likely Arizona will want picks in the 2025 draft.
My guess is Minnesota and New England ultimately make a deal and when Arizona's pick comes up three of the four top QBs are gone.
If the quarterback the Giants covet is there, I think Arizona will make the deal with the Giants.
They'll be guaranteed one of MHJr, Nabers, and Odunze at that point. And the more I think about it, the more likely Arizona will want picks in the 2025 draft.
I wouldn't be surprised if they demand a 2025 2nd or 3rd.
Then what the Giants and the other teams looking for QB's wind up doing.
I'm a huge supporter of moving on from Daniel Jones.
I also know that if you don't have a QB, nothing else matters.
But I also know that unless you are completely sure of the QB, then sacrificing future picks usually is not worth the risk. Look at recent NFL history of teams trading up in the top 10 for QBs.
So unless the Giants are completely sold on someone, then may have to try again next year. (and take some QB this year later in the draft)
+1.
All that said, Maye has the most realistic shot to be the best QB in this draft, but it depends on where he lands, much like most prospects.
I’ve never been more confident a player will bust than I am with CW. He’s unbelievably talented, but he doesn’t handle adversity well - not uncommon with the Uber talented. He has a personality type like KThibs, which I think is overblown here and isn’t problematic on its own, but it seems to be mixed with OBJ-type characteristics as well. I question how he responds to coaching, and Eberflus, a defensive mind, and a first year OC isn’t exactly the dream team of managing a prima donna QB.
JD has great tools, but his game is heavily dependent on his running, it’s his second read, and his team just doesn’t seem like it’ll hold up. He reminds me of RG3, who one could argue had a sturdier frame.
JJM is an enigma but I’m not a fan of his throwing motion or his arm. There’s a contingent that love him on here, but it seems as if it’s because he’s the opposite of DJ - ie processing speeds, understanding defenses, etc… but ultimately, he is a the most raw, unfinished product.
And then there’s Maye. Prototypical size, big time arm, he’s mobile but not reliant on it, and fearless, sometimes to a fault. And him actively working with Eli shows to me he’s dedicated and coachable. He’s not coming from a QB friendly coach, some will reference his ‘23 season where the overall team talent level took a plunge, but a younger, more raw ‘22 season he was lights out.
Don’t get me wrong, he could very easily end up a Mitch Trubiski type, especially if he lands in a bad situation, but Daboll, and Kingsbury to a much lesser extent, are the only coaches involved with these potential landing spots for the top QBs that shown the ability to take a QB and develop them. Maye’s biggest flaws are decision making under pressure, which can be said about most QBs (I seem to remember Tom Brady having trouble in 2 Super Bowls with some team who could rush the QB), decision making - which in his case is such a subjective knock on a player; Eli and Favre had the same things said for the same reasons, but personally, I’d rather a QB who wants to win and is confident in his arm than the alternative.
The last knock on him, and this is the one that is one that should give legitimate pause if true: his ability to read defenses has been questioned by some. Flatly, I just don’t know enough to speak on it in any way that matters. This is an evaluation a team makes by doing what Schoen talked about: getting to know the kid. If they vet him and think it’s something they can work with, I’m comfortable with the kings ransom we’ll have to give up to have New England pass on him, because I think Maye & Daboll have the shot at being the most successful pairing.
I believe that he and Daboll could be a HC/QB combo that mirrors a Reid/Mahomes pairing. And let me be clear, I’m not saying Maye gets a gold jacket if he ends up on the Giants, but that Mahomes likely doesn’t develop into the QB we see today without Reid, and Reid likely doesn’t have any rings without him. They were a perfect match for what the other wants to do. Reid has always run an offense that required a big arm, and put a lot on the QB to succeed. Mahomes needed that style of offense to realize his full potential. If MacAdoo got his wish, do you think we’re talking about Mahomes as a lock to be a HOFer half way through his career? I don’t. I think it would be a similar pairing for Daboll/Maye, in that they can bring the best out of each other. The first time I saw Maye throw my kneejerk was “that’s a guy Daboll can win with.”
We look at these guys in a vacuum too often. Coaching, ownership, team building, those things matter. If Lamar doesn’t end up on the Ravens, I don’t know that he’d still be playing football. If Darnold lands with the Bills, maybe he does become what the majority of us thought he’d be. And when you have a coach who has proven his ability to turn a raw, small school prospect who had a problem with accuracy (which I always read that you couldn’t fix) with a particular set of tools into a top 5 QB, and you see a prospect who has a fairly similar set of tools, you vet him, and you move heaven and earth to get him.
It says: “a league source believes”
I wouldn’t bet my house on it
Quote:
leaking out?
It says: “a league source believes”
I wouldn’t bet my house on it
BBI asshats have already said they've been aggressively pursuing a trade with NE. Seems like they do like Maye a lot and maybe JJM is a fallback option which would cost significantly less draft capital.
All that said, Maye has the most realistic shot to be the best QB in this draft, but it depends on where he lands, much like most prospects.
I’ve never been more confident a player will bust than I am with CW. He’s unbelievably talented, but he doesn’t handle adversity well - not uncommon with the Uber talented. He has a personality type like KThibs, which I think is overblown here and isn’t problematic on its own, but it seems to be mixed with OBJ-type characteristics as well. I question how he responds to coaching, and Eberflus, a defensive mind, and a first year OC isn’t exactly the dream team of managing a prima donna QB.
JD has great tools, but his game is heavily dependent on his running, it’s his second read, and his team just doesn’t seem like it’ll hold up. He reminds me of RG3, who one could argue had a sturdier frame.
JJM is an enigma but I’m not a fan of his throwing motion or his arm. There’s a contingent that love him on here, but it seems as if it’s because he’s the opposite of DJ - ie processing speeds, understanding defenses, etc… but ultimately, he is a the most raw, unfinished product.
And then there’s Maye. Prototypical size, big time arm, he’s mobile but not reliant on it, and fearless, sometimes to a fault. And him actively working with Eli shows to me he’s dedicated and coachable. He’s not coming from a QB friendly coach, some will reference his ‘23 season where the overall team talent level took a plunge, but a younger, more raw ‘22 season he was lights out.
Don’t get me wrong, he could very easily end up a Mitch Trubiski type, especially if he lands in a bad situation, but Daboll, and Kingsbury to a much lesser extent, are the only coaches involved with these potential landing spots for the top QBs that shown the ability to take a QB and develop them. Maye’s biggest flaws are decision making under pressure, which can be said about most QBs (I seem to remember Tom Brady having trouble in 2 Super Bowls with some team who could rush the QB), decision making - which in his case is such a subjective knock on a player; Eli and Favre had the same things said for the same reasons, but personally, I’d rather a QB who wants to win and is confident in his arm than the alternative.
The last knock on him, and this is the one that is one that should give legitimate pause if true: his ability to read defenses has been questioned by some. Flatly, I just don’t know enough to speak on it in any way that matters. This is an evaluation a team makes by doing what Schoen talked about: getting to know the kid. If they vet him and think it’s something they can work with, I’m comfortable with the kings ransom we’ll have to give up to have New England pass on him, because I think Maye & Daboll have the shot at being the most successful pairing.
I believe that he and Daboll could be a HC/QB combo that mirrors a Reid/Mahomes pairing. And let me be clear, I’m not saying Maye gets a gold jacket if he ends up on the Giants, but that Mahomes likely doesn’t develop into the QB we see today without Reid, and Reid likely doesn’t have any rings without him. They were a perfect match for what the other wants to do. Reid has always run an offense that required a big arm, and put a lot on the QB to succeed. Mahomes needed that style of offense to realize his full potential. If MacAdoo got his wish, do you think we’re talking about Mahomes as a lock to be a HOFer half way through his career? I don’t. I think it would be a similar pairing for Daboll/Maye, in that they can bring the best out of each other. The first time I saw Maye throw my kneejerk was “that’s a guy Daboll can win with.”
We look at these guys in a vacuum too often. Coaching, ownership, team building, those things matter. If Lamar doesn’t end up on the Ravens, I don’t know that he’d still be playing football. If Darnold lands with the Bills, maybe he does become what the majority of us thought he’d be. And when you have a coach who has proven his ability to turn a raw, small school prospect who had a problem with accuracy (which I always read that you couldn’t fix) with a particular set of tools into a top 5 QB, and you see a prospect who has a fairly similar set of tools, you vet him, and you move heaven and earth to get him.
Good post, although I don't completely agree with everything I think your perspective on Maye is realistic and reflects what Schoen and Daboll are likely thinking.
I do think Maye is boom or bust and it will come down to his ability to process information pre and post snap while making smart, quick decisions (especially under pressure). I prefer JJM because I feel his floor is much higher while still having great upside. Nevertheless, I see the thinking behind Maye with his truly elite ceiling. If Schoen and Dabs think he processes efficiently enough pre and postsnap, then all I can do is trust their expertise on the matter.
Aside from extolling Josh Allen traits, this connection, easily made for the obvious reasons--is it being overplayed, over emphasized because of the Giants' tricky and very difficult path to get in position to draft him? i.e., deception
They completely skipped his Pro Day. Massively attended the Washington Pro Day. There have been high profile pieces from Vacchiano and Schwartz, two guys known to get these kinds of stories that say Maye or WR and promote a 2nd round or later QB like Penix.
They had a private workout with him on Easter and leaked out absolutely nothing about it so much it’s largely been completely forgetten it happened.
This has been so effective that you can’t find a mock draft with the Giants going anything other than WR anymore.
They completely skipped his Pro Day. Massively attended the Washington Pro Day. There have been high profile pieces from Vacchiano and Schwartz, two guys known to get these kinds of stories that say Maye or WR and promote a 2nd round or later QB like Penix.
They had a private workout with him on Easter and leaked out absolutely nothing about it so much it’s largely been completely forgetten it happened.
This has been so effective that you can’t find a mock draft with the Giants going anything other than WR anymore.
Pat Leonard on his podcast said McCarthy's went well. Nothing has been leaked on any of the private workouts to be honest that I can find.
And I am all in on ALT. We plug it with average fill ins,but a generational talent is waiting at 6.
They completely skipped his Pro Day. Massively attended the Washington Pro Day. There have been high profile pieces from Vacchiano and Schwartz, two guys known to get these kinds of stories that say Maye or WR and promote a 2nd round or later QB like Penix.
They had a private workout with him on Easter and leaked out absolutely nothing about it so much it’s largely been completely forgetten it happened.
This has been so effective that you can’t find a mock draft with the Giants going anything other than WR anymore.
Schwartz wrote about McCarthy already and Vacchiano doesn’t even really cover the Giants anymore. Schwartz has to write something new every other day or so, so it shouldn’t be a surprise that all bases are being covered. It’s just the nature of the business, hard to come up with new content between FA and the draft when you need to consistently pump out articles.
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They completely skipped his Pro Day. Massively attended the Washington Pro Day. There have been high profile pieces from Vacchiano and Schwartz, two guys known to get these kinds of stories that say Maye or WR and promote a 2nd round or later QB like Penix.
They had a private workout with him on Easter and leaked out absolutely nothing about it so much it’s largely been completely forgetten it happened.
This has been so effective that you can’t find a mock draft with the Giants going anything other than WR anymore.
?
McCarthy was one of Giants 30 visits. They also met with him at the Combine and met with him in Michigan.
The two QBs who they've met with three times are Maye and McCarthy.
Because they were going to privately work them out.
Quote:
Because they have done everything possible in last 2 weeks to make everyone think they are not drafting him
They completely skipped his Pro Day. Massively attended the Washington Pro Day. There have been high profile pieces from Vacchiano and Schwartz, two guys known to get these kinds of stories that say Maye or WR and promote a 2nd round or later QB like Penix.
They had a private workout with him on Easter and leaked out absolutely nothing about it so much it’s largely been completely forgetten it happened.
This has been so effective that you can’t find a mock draft with the Giants going anything other than WR anymore.
?
McCarthy was one of Giants 30 visits. They also met with him at the Combine and met with him in Michigan.
The two QBs who they've met with three times are Maye and McCarthy.
They’ve also met 3 times with Penix. They met at the combine, had dinner with him after his pro day and then the top 30 visit.