It's the Giants' pre-draft conundrum: Draft the quarterback to replace the oft-injured Daniel Jones or sit tight and let the true No. 1 receiver the Giants haven't had since Odell Beckham Jr. fall into their laps?
"Do you want the heir apparent to Daniel or do you want to help Daniel? That's what it boils down to," ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. said recently.
When it comes to this year's quarterbacks, Daniels is a name to keep an eye on, if he's not among the top two picks with Williams. He is a player who is well-regarded within the organization and that multiple sources with connections to Schoen and Daboll believe would be an ideal fit in their offense. There is also interest in McCarthy, especially if he is available at No. 6.
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Exactly… the draft can’t come soon enough.
To be fair, singling out Daniels is new.
Unfortunately, this was last year's narrative and is no longer applicable for a QB that is one hit away from another injury.
We may never know what Daniel Jones coulda, woulda, shoulda been as a Giants QB. But we now know the odds are very good that he will either be traded or cut within the next 12 months.
It’s going to be a long 2 weeks
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I know they gotta file articles, but a really novel story here by Jordan. Give this man a Pulitzer!
To be fair, singling out Daniels is new.
Also to be fair, most of the BBIers that opened this thread have for weeks (if not months) been reading ALL the draft articles and participated in dozens of draft threads. We are not the average Giants fan that the beats address their articles to
Unfortunately, this was last year's narrative and is no longer applicable for a QB that is one hit away from another injury.
We may never know what Daniel Jones coulda, woulda, shoulda been as a Giants QB. But we now know the odds are very good that he will either be traded or cut within the next 12 months.
I agree that this is NOT the question.
The question is... If there is a QB that the Giants like, is there a viable path that would allow them to draft him?
If there isn't then the question changes to, "What other player would most improve the team?" not, "How can we help Daniel Jones?"
But if we're talking all things/grades being equal, you take the QB 100 times out of 100. It's a QB league. Nothing can change a teams fortunes faster than the right QB. I get he needs stuff to write about and we're still 3 weeks out but it's a silly question.
That's not a conundrum. It's not a conundrum even if you remove Jones' name from the equation. If you like the QB you take the QB. I'm not saying I don't like the WRs. I like them all, especially Odunze. And I wouldn't be "upset" if that's how it plays out. But you gave to recognize it may end up like Garrett Wilson. Stud, true #1, putting up nice numbers. On a team every bit as jacked up as ours.
But if we're talking all things/grades being equal, you take the QB 100 times out of 100. It's a QB league. Nothing can change a teams fortunes faster than the right QB. I get he needs stuff to write about and we're still 3 weeks out but it's a silly question.
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It's the Giants' pre-draft conundrum: Draft the quarterback to replace the oft-injured Daniel Jones or sit tight and let the true No. 1 receiver the Giants haven't had since Odell Beckham Jr. fall into their laps?
That's not a conundrum. It's not a conundrum even if you remove Jones' name from the equation. If you like the QB you take the QB. I'm not saying I don't like the WRs. I like them all, especially Odunze. And I wouldn't be "upset" if that's how it plays out. But you gave to recognize it may end up like Garrett Wilson. Stud, true #1, putting up nice numbers. On a team every bit as jacked up as ours.
+1
There are supposedly 3 stud sure thing WRs….be happy with one of them if the QB you want is not there.
There is no question the Giants need to draft a QB in the 2024 draft. Where (and maybe even how many; Wash took RG3 and Cousins; SF took Lance and Purdy) is the question.
The Giant need a #1 WR; the Giants absolutely need to add a rookie to the QB room. Whether the Giants need to draft a QB at 6th overall (or somewhere in the first round) is THE question.
There is no question the Giants need to draft a QB in the 2024 draft. Where (and maybe even how many; Wash took RG3 and Cousins; SF took Lance and Purdy) is the question.
The Giant need a #1 WR; the Giants absolutely need to add a rookie to the QB room. Whether the Giants need to draft a QB at 6th overall (or somewhere in the first round) is THE question.
+1.
Yes.
Next question.
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Hit the 12 passing TD mark (which would be the 3rd highest total in his career)?
Help Daniel get past the division round of the playoffs. If they can win a playoff game with Hodgins, Slayton, and James catching passes, how much further can they go with Nabers, Wan'Dale, Slayton, and Hyatt doing the catching? It took Hodgins all of two weeks to go from being on Buffalo's practice squad to being the Giants WR1. That's how bad the receivers were.
What if the current Daniel is not the same as the 2022 Daniel? That you are getting the 2023 version with less mobility (and possibly not the same throwing motion as the 2022 version)
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Hit the 12 passing TD mark (which would be the 3rd highest total in his career)?
Help Daniel get past the division round of the playoffs.
If that is the goal then the best thing the Giants can do is give Daniel his outright release so he can catch on with another ballclub as their backup QB.
And if that team gets past the divisional round of the playoffs then both you and DJ can check-the-box on that key milestone.
They're not going to make it go any faster and the potential is wasted
There are supposedly 3 stud sure thing WRs….be happy with one of them if the QB you want is not there.
So we should force the WR instead?
What if the current Daniel is not the same as the 2022 Daniel? That you are getting the 2023 version with less mobility (and possibly not the same throwing motion as the 2022 version)
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Hit the 12 passing TD mark (which would be the 3rd highest total in his career)?
Help Daniel get past the division round of the playoffs. If they can win a playoff game with Hodgins, Slayton, and James catching passes, how much further can they go with Nabers, Wan'Dale, Slayton, and Hyatt doing the catching? It took Hodgins all of two weeks to go from being on Buffalo's practice squad to being the Giants WR1. That's how bad the receivers were.
Blake Bortles went to the AFC championship game.
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If he is “one” you want and available, make it so. Don’t reach for McCarthy, Pennix and Nix.
There are supposedly 3 stud sure thing WRs….be happy with one of them if the QB you want is not there.
So we should force the WR instead?
Since when does drafting a top WR and possible best player in the draft qualify as “forcing”?
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In comment 16459518 5BowlsSoon said:
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If he is “one” you want and available, make it so. Don’t reach for McCarthy, Pennix and Nix.
There are supposedly 3 stud sure thing WRs….be happy with one of them if the QB you want is not there.
So we should force the WR instead?
Since when does drafting a top WR and possible best player in the draft qualify as “forcing”?
How is that any less subjective than a mere fan declaring which QBs would be valid picks vs which would be "forced"?
I don't think it's that hard to follow.
You don't know what order the Giants have the QBs ranked (or what order the Giants have the WRs ranked). To claim that they would be "forcing" the QB pick when it could very well be their #1 or #2 QB that they're pursuing, but that the WR couldn't possibly be a "forced" pick because some talking head claimed that that one particular WR might be the best player in the draft just seems inconsistent. Besides, you don't know what order the WRs will come off the board and whether that will be consistent with the Giants' board.
There's a greater-than-zero chance that precisely three QBs and two WRs will be taken in the top five picks. That would leave the Giants with an option between the fourth QB and the third WR. Either of those could be #1 on the Giants board, both at their respective position and overall. But neither of us know that, which is my point. You either believe in the Giants' ability to set (and follow) their board, or you don't. But the respective order in which the players come off the board at any position says nothing about a pick being forced.
Ok, I guess following along is a bit more difficult than I assumed.
5Bowls claimed that McCarthy, Penix, or Nix would be an example of forcing the pick (we have absolutely nothing to support this other than 5Bowls' opinion, which isn't worth much). He then claimed that it would be safer to instead choose a supposed sure-thing WR (which in itself is already a flawed and biased viewpoint that one set of players is comprised sure things while the other is comprised of "forced" picks).
HardTruth then countered with what I would consider a logical question: "So we should force the WR pick instead?"
This question gets right to the heart of the issue, IMO. There's nothing that supports the viewpoint that the QB selection would be "forced" while the WR selection would be valid. Either of them could be viewed as a forced pick. What if two WRs are already taken when the Giants are on the clock? What if one WR is already taken but it's the only one the Giants have above their third (or even fourth) QB? We don't know.
You jumped in at this point and decided to back the notion that the WRs are more of a sure thing, even going so far as to suggest that one of them might be the best player in the draft.
So that's where we find ourselves now. There is no guarantee about any player. We don't know the Giants' ranking of any of the players, at any position, or overall between positions. To claim that any of those picks would be "forced" while any other would be valid is an inherently flawed point of view.
Any one of J.J. McCarthy or Michael Penix or Bo Nix could end up the top QB in this class. Any of them could end up the top player in this class. Likewise, any of Harrison, Nabers, or Odunze could bust, or simply disappoint relative to their draft slot. We don't know.
To claim that any player would be a forced pick and that any alternative player would be unforced (and therefore organically valid) is a silly argument.
I hope that clears up any confusion.
Your issue seems to be that I replied to 1 comment yet I clarified that after when I said “don’t force X” posts are pointless.
Is it not possible that you misinterpreted my post or are you above reading something and interpreting it differently than it was intended? I do that from time to time, say my bad, and move on.
And yes, Jones or Joe Blow needs better WRs here. IN case anyone needs a no shit life lesson, here goes-- good WRs help teams and QBs win more than bad WRs. News at 11.
Your issue seems to be that I replied to 1 comment yet I clarified that after when I said “don’t force X” posts are pointless.
Is it not possible that you misinterpreted my post or are you above reading something and interpreting it differently than it was intended? I do that from time to time, say my bad, and move on.
What did I misinterpret? It seems pretty clear that you backed the notion that a WR wouldn't be a "forced" pick because your opinion is that one of those WRs might be the best player in the draft (nevermind that we have no way of knowing that, we have no way of ensuring that we get that particular WR even if that's true, and we were also sold the same tincture of snake oil in 2018).
If you felt differently, you could have replied to 5Bowls' moronic post instead of HardTruth's logical response to that post. But you replied where you did because you believe what you do.
And to answer your question, I talk to people that way because I ran out of patience for logical fallacies and incomplete/invalid proofs (and tortured transitivity) about two decades ago.