There is all this talk about trading, but a lot of times it just proves to be noise. Come draft night, would this really surprise anyone:
CHI: Williams
WSH: Daniels
NE: Maye
ARI: Harrison
LAC: Nabers/Alt
Is Minnesota really going to trade 3 first round QBs for Maye or McCarthy? I find it hard to believe. Plus, they could sit at 11 and draft Penix. Nix feels like a good fit for Denver and probably wouldn't need a trade up.
Adam Schefter recently reported on the SAS show that the Texans initiated the trade with the Vikings in the picks swap. That changes things a bit imo.
I believe NYG will be on the clock with a combination of McCarthy/Nabers/Odunze available. That will be the decision imo.
Why hasn't it happened yet?
McCarthy + Benson + Best WR available or:
McCarthy + Best WR available + Corum
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I think Minnesota is most certainly moving up.
Why hasn't it happened yet?
If they are trading up for a particular player they want to make sure that guy is there before moving up. It may indicate only that the are not fine with any of the top 4 QBs, but are targeting one or two.
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I think Minnesota is most certainly moving up.
Why hasn't it happened yet?
NE probably is hoping Daniels makes it to them and would rather the safer route of a haul of picks than a boom or bust prospect at 3. I think Minnesota is ready to pay a true king's ransom for Maye. I hope it doesn't happen through LAC because that could force us to trade up with AZ or if too costly just go Nabers at 6 (which isn't a bad fallback option since Daboll loves him and he's truly an elite prospect).
If you believe our little Vikings asshat report, then Minnesota doesn't want JJM via tradeup. Thus, I agree with you that it will come down to JJM or WR at 6 most likely. Who knows if they'd draft JJM over Nabers, we might never find out.
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I think Minnesota is most certainly moving up.
Why hasn't it happened yet?
I don't think MInn wants to off their "Best and highest" offer until draft night.
After all, the Giants are still in the mix to move up. Maybe other teams as well.
My thoughts:
Chicago- Williams
Washington- Daniels (no way I see them going elsewhere)
New England- JJM
Arizona- Harrison
LAC- (flip with Giants)- Maye
NYG- (LAC)- Alt
That is how I see this draft going right now.
If you they don't like McCarthy I will be fine if they take Nabers/Odunze. Hopefully we get Lock instead of Jones for 2024 in that scenario.
Why are the Patriots dropping all the way to 11 and out of blue chip talent? I don't see it. I expect chalk at the top.
Says who? You?
Thank you for your educated opinion.
Are you under the assumption only the Giants front office would draft him in the first round?
It's fun to speculate who's going to be there, but why does it have to be set in stone right now?
With WR at 6, I'd be ok with them getting back into the 1st to get Penix.
Why are the Patriots dropping all the way to 11 and out of blue chip talent? I don't see it. I expect chalk at the top.
They could trade through LAC to get to 3. Say 11 and 23 for pick 5, then pick 5 and 2025 1st and 3rd for pick 3.
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Him & Daboll should just hand in resignation letters with the draft pick. He is NOT a #6 pick. He's hardly a 1st round pick.
Says who? You?
I was where you are.
And then I saw write that he had him as a day 2 pick before he took a deep dive to study him, and now had him as his #3.
If you looked at every snap and still think that- ok?
But I'm guessing you did what I did - saw him in few games and never saw anything that made you think he could be special.
He put in the work (and obviously knows more than I do)
I think that Sy also mentioned in his QB thread, that he thought there was a chance that Daniels could drop a bit.
McCarthy + Benson + Best WR available or:
McCarthy + Best WR available + Corum
McCarthy + Best WR available + ? works for me, IF the draft falls this way. I'm still thinking there will be at least 1 surprise in 1-5.
He put in the work (and obviously knows more than I do)
Of course he put in the work, and I think it goes without saying he knows more than anyone else on this board when it comes to evaluating QBs.
Having said that, it is still ok to hold a view different from Sy's when it comes to the ratings. It is projection, not science.
Why aren't you a GM?
Both teams need WR and OL
Both teams have extra draft picks already
What is the reason those teams would trade down other than generic more picks? Who are they targeting that would make that trade beneficial for those teams?
If the Vikings trade to 3, it is irrelevant as it would leave the 4th QB on the board for Giants
Both teams need WR and OL
Both teams have extra draft picks already
What is the reason those teams would trade down other than generic more picks? Who are they targeting that would make that trade beneficial for those teams?
If the Vikings trade to 3, it is irrelevant as it would leave the 4th QB on the board for Giants
There isn't. It's just fun mock draft speculation. Teams generally don't trade out of blue chip players.
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I think Minnesota is most certainly moving up.
Why hasn't it happened yet?
Teams may be waiting to see if "their" guy is available. It is possible somebody wants Maye but not Daniels, or vice versa and so will wait until picks are in to execute a mostly agreed upon trade. NYG may already have a tentative deal worked out.
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I think Minnesota is most certainly moving up.
Why hasn't it happened yet?
5th pick is too far back in the order to trade pre-draft. IIRC, all of the other pre draft trades of note have been for #1 or #2 where you can guarantee a certain player is there.
If Minn has a specific target, and LAC is the trade partner, it would be too big of a risk to hope AZ doesn’t have a change of heart and start fielding offers for #4.
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saw Sy's write-up.
He put in the work (and obviously knows more than I do)
Of course he put in the work, and I think it goes without saying he knows more than anyone else on this board when it comes to evaluating QBs.
Having said that, it is still ok to hold a view different from Sy's when it comes to the ratings. It is projection, not science.
Of course it is
But one should consider
- if they have actually watched enough to have their own well-informed opinion
-if they are basing their opinions on other - how much work do those pundits actually put in?
I'm guessing that outside of the NFL - not many guys really watch much of every prospect
If you believe the Vikings asshat tidbits, then Minnesota is not trading up for JJM. Plan 1 is trade up for Maye. Plan 2 is take Penix at 11. Who knows though.
I think McCarthy may have the biggest bust rate of the six QBs; so, I wouldn't touch him at #6, either.
However, considering what we have right now in the QB stable, McCarthy would be worth the stretch versus mismanaging the draft by selecting a WR at #6 in a draft deep in WR talent.
Or just figure out a way to get the hell out of the sixth slot with a willing partner to move down.
I know Sy likes McCarthy in the lottery, but I think he offset his evaluation with this:
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In comment 16460657 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I think Minnesota is most certainly moving up.
Why hasn't it happened yet?
5th pick is too far back in the order to trade pre-draft. IIRC, all of the other pre draft trades of note have been for #1 or #2 where you can guarantee a certain player is there.
If Minn has a specific target, and LAC is the trade partner, it would be too big of a risk to hope AZ doesn’t have a change of heart and start fielding offers for #4.
Yes, but the most logical path to 3 for the Vikings might be through the Chargers at 5. Maybe Harbaugh wants Fuaga or Latham plus bpa at 23 vs Alt or Nabers or Odunze. Then NE would slide to 5 and still get a blue chipper or JJM while Minnesota got Maye.
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Him & Daboll should just hand in resignation letters with the draft pick. He is NOT a #6 pick. He's hardly a 1st round pick.
I think McCarthy may have the biggest bust rate of the six QBs; so, I wouldn't touch him at #6, either.
However, considering what we have right now in the QB stable, McCarthy would be worth the stretch versus mismanaging the draft by selecting a WR at #6 in a draft deep in WR talent.
Or just figure out a way to get the hell out of the sixth slot with a willing partner to move down.
I know Sy likes McCarthy in the lottery, but I think he offset his evaluation with this:
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McCarthy is good, but I would not label him special.
Well good is certainly an improvement over what we have now, but if the criteria to draft a QB is "special", how many special QB draft picks are there? How do we get one, assuming other teams also know a special QB draft pick when they see one? Using this logic when would we ever draft a QB, how long would we languish in QB Hell?
He’s only 21, he’s a winner, he’s capable of more than what Michigan asked of him, has intangibles, and perception of good arm talent because he has a few flashy throws that look real nice on all 22
I see a guy who had it easy at Michigan - and now people are sitting here projecting that he can do things at the pro-level that he never put on film at Michigan. That at #6…no thank you
We are going to learn a lot about our GM in a little over 2 weeks: Texas Hold 'Em, trader Joe, and implications for this franchise for the next 3 years.
This isn't a troll
This isn't a troll
Interesting thanks for info.
But Daniel Jones in 2024 capped with coach or regime change at seasons end is a real possibility though. Then we're starting over again and hoping someone of value wants to run this team with the caveat that John Mara and family are telling you who you have to re-sign.
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And take JJM. I’d love Nabers for us. I like JJM, but not sold that he isn’t a guy we aren’t going to be asking ourselves should we or shouldn’t we 4 years from now. I want a guy who moves the needle, not just someone you can win with provided other things.
If you believe the Vikings asshat tidbits, then Minnesota is not trading up for JJM. Plan 1 is trade up for Maye. Plan 2 is take Penix at 11. Who knows though.
He’s only 21, he’s a winner, he’s capable of more than what Michigan asked of him, has intangibles, and perception of good arm talent because he has a few flashy throws that look real nice on all 22
I see a guy who had it easy at Michigan - and now people are sitting here projecting that he can do things at the pro-level that he never put on film at Michigan. That at #6…no thank you
You think Randy Mueller and Sy and many others just fell for the bait of a winning resumè and "a few flashy throws"? That sounds a bit simple-minded to me. You might not like him and that's fine, but to say former GMs and professional scouts are just falling for him and not as smart as you essentially--that's a bit arrogant.
The tape and stats of JJM making plays with a dirty pocket are abundant. He doesn't turn the ball over and he's apparently the best of the bunch on the whiteboard. His arm is strong, yet needs refining in throwing motion. He's extremely athletic and his size is sufficient at 6'2.5 and 220lbs. There's a lot more to him than what you reduce it to.
This isn't a troll
Great, year six of Jones.
This isn't a troll
Ahhh, I didn't want to watch any football next year anyway...
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.
But Daniel Jones in 2024 capped with coach or regime change at seasons end is a real possibility though. Then we're starting over again and hoping someone of value wants to run this team with the caveat that John Mara and family are telling you who you have to re-sign.
McCarthy may do nothing in the short-term to save jobs, or prevent regime change. He's too big of a risk for me, given how little film there is to try and project him to the NFL success.
Fear of sucking in 2024 or changing regimes doesn't bother me. Continuing to suck at drafting, hiring, finding pieces that fit, and putting your personal career aspirations ahead of the team's success do bother me.
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I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
Great, year six of Jones.
King's ransom for Maye or Nabers at 6! I'm starting to get a feeling they are going Nabers at 6 and a revitalization of 2022!
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In comment 16460749 Woodstock said:
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I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
Great, year six of Jones.
King's ransom for Maye or Nabers at 6! I'm starting to get a feeling they are going Nabers at 6 and a revitalization of 2022!
Nabers isn't turning this team to a playoff contender with Jones throwing to him. They'll win 4-6 games and be in the exact same boat next draft--on the outside looking in at the top QB's.
The high school game is funneling every plus athletic kid to the WR position. It's a high pay, low hit position. All of the top talented athletic kids play WR.
There's so much depth at WR now. Even for the Giants, it'll be the least surprising miracle how talented the WRs on the roster become when the quarterback play improves.
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In comment 16460755 LW_Giants said:
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In comment 16460749 Woodstock said:
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I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
Great, year six of Jones.
King's ransom for Maye or Nabers at 6! I'm starting to get a feeling they are going Nabers at 6 and a revitalization of 2022!
Nabers isn't turning this team to a playoff contender with Jones throwing to him. They'll win 4-6 games and be in the exact same boat next draft--on the outside looking in at the top QB's.
I agree, its not what I would prefer. I'm just beginning to feel like that's the route they want to go. Maybe Daboll is a bit overly confident in his abilities to work with subpar QBs and thinks he can make magic happen with a Z receiver like Nabers and Lock/Jones. Maybe Daboll just wants to win and isn't interested in long term moves? Maybe he feels the heat and thinks he will be first to go if we take a QB and have a bad year?
Just went back and re-read Sy's 76 grade on Mahomes. We need to draft a guy that can throw the football all over the field with accuracy and authority and try to coach the rest.
Swinging and missing on a QB has the same implications as swinging and missing on any other position.
If JJM has the requisite skills, there's no existential risk picking him. He either succeeds or fails, and it should take no more than three years to make that determination.
Just went back and re-read Sy's 76 grade on Mahomes. We need to draft a guy that can throw the football all over the field with accuracy and authority and try to coach the rest.
It might and it's another shining example of why NYG struggles.
This isn't a troll
Then again if Schoen is as tight with info as we believe, this should be taken with a grain of salt as QB preferences would be top of the list for keeping under wraps. Connor Hughes is usually spot on with info and said the NYG like McCarthy a lot. There was a report after that saying Schoen was mad about the leak. It will all come to fruition on draft day, but I see how leaking info about not liking a prospect could help in any way other than a smokescreen.
Maybe they only like Maye via tradeup, or maybe their fallback is JJM at 6 and they're hoping to influence that by not leaking info about not liking him after info previously leaked about liking him.
We will know soon enough, I think Schoen is doing a good job with information. No one has a clue what will happen, which is a real breath of fresh air.
Swinging and missing on a QB has the same implications as swinging and missing on any other position.
If JJM has the requisite skills, there's no existential risk picking him. He either succeeds or fails, and it should take no more than three years to make that determination.
The biggest shock to my system as an NFL fan is just how disposable 1st-round quarterbacks have become. You never ever would see a franchise cut ties with a first rounder after 2, 3, 4 years. Now it happens all of the time.
Harrison, LAC- Alt, Nabers).
The Vikings will want to move up, sure. Doesn’t mean it will happen. I think the only trade that “might” occur will be up to 3 )for a Kings ransom! NE can still take Nix at 11.
When push comes to shove, I can’t see AZ passing on one of these WRs.
Maybe a trade with us to 6. Since they have plenty of picks THIS year, that would be for picks next year.
LAC DESPERATELY need two things: to protect Herbert who got
The tar beaten out of him last year. And a top flight WR for Herbert. One of those will be the pick.
Schoen will be left with a QB, Nabers/Odunze for his pick.
That’s how I see it.
He will have a better team and defense around him than he did in 2022.
That's not the issue.
The issues are (1) he can't stay healthy, and (2) he has yet to prove - at his best - he's anything more than just average.
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I think people fall for the bait on him very easily
He’s only 21, he’s a winner, he’s capable of more than what Michigan asked of him, has intangibles, and perception of good arm talent because he has a few flashy throws that look real nice on all 22
I see a guy who had it easy at Michigan - and now people are sitting here projecting that he can do things at the pro-level that he never put on film at Michigan. That at #6…no thank you
You think Randy Mueller and Sy and many others just fell for the bait of a winning resumè and "a few flashy throws"? That sounds a bit simple-minded to me. You might not like him and that's fine, but to say former GMs and professional scouts are just falling for him and not as smart as you essentially--that's a bit arrogant.
The tape and stats of JJM making plays with a dirty pocket are abundant. He doesn't turn the ball over and he's apparently the best of the bunch on the whiteboard. His arm is strong, yet needs refining in throwing motion. He's extremely athletic and his size is sufficient at 6'2.5 and 220lbs. There's a lot more to him than what you reduce it to.
Not taking Mueller as gospel. The guy most recently worked for the Seattle Sea Dragons..
As for Sy, his evaluation, to me is exactly what is wrong with McCarthh. He’s not special. You’re basically settling for a limitation at QB that will leave you wanting more.
I think the JJM army on this board has gotten out of hand. I don’t know anything but I’m pretty sure the Giants won’t be the team dumb enough to take him in the top half of r1. He doesn’t even fit their offense…he’s a cookie cutter WCO QB. Also great for a Shanahan offense. If I had to guess, Minnesota probably MUCH higher on him than the Giants
Harrison, LAC- Alt, Nabers).
The Vikings will want to move up, sure. Doesn’t mean it will happen. I think the only trade that “might” occur will be up to 3 )for a Kings ransom! NE can still take Nix at 11.
When push comes to shove, I can’t see AZ passing on one of these WRs.
Maybe a trade with us to 6. Since they have plenty of picks THIS year, that would be for picks next year.
LAC DESPERATELY need two things: to protect Herbert who got
The tar beaten out of him last year. And a top flight WR for Herbert. One of those will be the pick.
Schoen will be left with a QB, Nabers/Odunze for his pick.
That’s how I see it.
In terms of options, the scenario Sean and you paint is the best for the Giants. Whether the 4th QB is there or not is something we won't know until draft night.
He will have a better team and defense around him than he did in 2022.
That's not the issue.
The issues are (1) he can't stay healthy, and (2) he has yet to prove - at his best - he's anything more than just average.
Yeah I agree and I get the feeling this possibility is very real.
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In comment 16460755 LW_Giants said:
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In comment 16460749 Woodstock said:
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I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
Great, year six of Jones.
King's ransom for Maye or Nabers at 6! I'm starting to get a feeling they are going Nabers at 6 and a revitalization of 2022!
Nabers isn't turning this team to a playoff contender with Jones throwing to him. They'll win 4-6 games and be in the exact same boat next draft--on the outside looking in at the top QB's.
This team literally went to the playoffs (and won a game) with Jones throwing to Richie James and Hodgins…15 months ago..
Just went back and re-read Sy's 76 grade on Mahomes. We need to draft a guy that can throw the football all over the field with accuracy and authority and try to coach the rest.
I think a combination of Stud WR and any of Nix, Penix or even Rattler will get Schabs to ‘25 too.
Swinging and missing on a QB has the same implications as swinging and missing on any other position.
If JJM has the requisite skills, there's no existential risk picking him. He either succeeds or fails, and it should take no more than three years to make that determination.
The biggest shock to my system as an NFL fan is just how disposable 1st-round quarterbacks have become. You never ever would see a franchise cut ties with a first rounder after 2, 3, 4 years. Now it happens all of the time.
It's the rookie pay scale.
In 2010 Sam Bradford got a 6/78M with 50M guaranteed as the first overall pick.
The number two overall pick Suh got 5/60M with 40M guaranteed.
Now that position is taken out of the equation, the investment is like any other position.
The other factor is the 5th year option now being fully guaranteed. After year 3, you have to make a choice before the real money starts flowing.
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Recent history shows us the league treats top 10 QBs less preciously than a decade ago.
Swinging and missing on a QB has the same implications as swinging and missing on any other position.
If JJM has the requisite skills, there's no existential risk picking him. He either succeeds or fails, and it should take no more than three years to make that determination.
The biggest shock to my system as an NFL fan is just how disposable 1st-round quarterbacks have become. You never ever would see a franchise cut ties with a first rounder after 2, 3, 4 years. Now it happens all of the time.
Agreed. Look at how quickly the Jets pivoted from Darnold to Wilson and are now also trying to get rid of the latter.
This team literally went to the playoffs (and won a game) with Jones throwing to Richie James and Hodgins…15 months ago..
That playoff team had a top 10 rushing offense, including Barkley and a pre-ACL Jones.
He will have a better team and defense around him than he did in 2022.
That's not the issue.
The issues are (1) he can't stay healthy, and (2) he has yet to prove - at his best - he's anything more than just average.
Wait a minute, I'm factoring in the health issue in my statement that he can't make us a 9 win team. If you guaranteed me his health next season I'd probably say ok maybe the win range is 4-9 (although I'd still be the lower end).
And player development has become a joke. It's one of the major reasons why OLs suck. You can't practice and players are constantly changing teams so no cohesion.
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In comment 16460759 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16460755 LW_Giants said:
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In comment 16460749 Woodstock said:
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I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
Great, year six of Jones.
King's ransom for Maye or Nabers at 6! I'm starting to get a feeling they are going Nabers at 6 and a revitalization of 2022!
Nabers isn't turning this team to a playoff contender with Jones throwing to him. They'll win 4-6 games and be in the exact same boat next draft--on the outside looking in at the top QB's.
This team literally went to the playoffs (and won a game) with Jones throwing to Richie James and Hodgins…15 months ago..
A lot of things broke the Giants way that season, and they had Barkley. I'm not saying it's impossible to happen again but I wouldn't bet on it. They were basically winning all close games by the skin of their teeth.
Jones has proven he can play at an OK level and have a team in Wild Card contention. Yes, he had Barkley, but the OL is arguably better now and the receivers would be way better. So will the defense.
You really think it is impossible for him to win 9 games in 2024 and Mara thinks he's the golden boy again? I don't.
On the flip side, he's one neck injury away from retiring.
And player development has become a joke. It's one of the major reasons why OLs suck. You can't practice and players are constantly changing teams so no cohesion.
I think both parties thought the rookie scale would lead to more retention by incumbent teams, but it's just made players in those first three years fungible if they don't hit the ground running.
Personally, I think the rookie scale is way out whack. Statistically the best years many players contribute are their first 4 years.
I'd like to either see rookies become UFA after 3 years, or the pay increase.
I want teams to be invested in the players they draft or have to invest in them sooner.
McCarthy may do nothing in the short-term to save jobs, or prevent regime change. He's too big of a risk for me, given how little film there is to try and project him to the NFL success.
I am so tapped out watching Jones play QB in the NFL that I will hold my nose, accept taking the big risk on McCarthy at #6, and hope DaVoli can get to the bottom of McCarthy and make him work.
It's time to stop hitting off the batting tee, get into the batter's box, and take swings against live pitching. And draft a QB.
If we pass on QB, I still hope we still do the right thing and cut Jones and let Lock start with Cutlets and another QB-to-be-named-later as back-ups two and three. That would be a worthwhile consolation prize.
Both teams need WR and OL
Both teams have extra draft picks already
What is the reason those teams would trade down other than generic more picks? Who are they targeting that would make that trade beneficial for those teams?
If the Vikings trade to 3, it is irrelevant as it would leave the 4th QB on the board for Giants
The Chargers have OL problems and their DL is getting old. 11 and 23 can fix their OL or net a quality edge and OL (who isn’t really a drop off from Alt).
The Cards prob won’t trade as they already have a bunch of picks. But the Chargers have a new regime and Harbaugh has been very vocal about fixing the OL.
Jones has proven he can play at an OK level and have a team in Wild Card contention. Yes, he had Barkley, but the OL is arguably better now and the receivers would be way better. So will the defense.
You really think it is impossible for him to win 9 games in 2024 and Mara thinks he's the golden boy again? I don't.
On the flip side, he's one neck injury away from retiring.
You can't discount this idea. And I'm sure it's a real possibility in the minds of those who matter on decisions. Mara, Daboll and Schoen would all love to have a DJ Renaissance.
We don't. Drafting an alpha WR gives us 5 years of control for that new #1 (before extension). Bring in the new QB during that window is how I see it.
Yup. I'd like to see the minimums go way up. I think the rookie scale is way too low as well as the vested minimums.
Evening out the slice of the pie would hopefully keep players with the team that drafted them longer.
Jones has proven he can play at an OK level and have a team in Wild Card contention. Yes, he had Barkley, but the OL is arguably better now and the receivers would be way better. So will the defense.
You really think it is impossible for him to win 9 games in 2024 and Mara thinks he's the golden boy again? I don't.
On the flip side, he's one neck injury away from retiring.
Do you think we can win a SB with Jones?
If those odds are so low in your mind, why the hell should we keep him for a sixth tryout?
Absolutely, it would be borderline awful for the team. You can't help but think Schoen, Daboll and Mara would love it though and might even have a vision of becoming a contender with Jones still, which I think is delusional but I can see how they could hope for that and believe in it.
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with the Jones debates on BBI are the extreme positions.
Jones has proven he can play at an OK level and have a team in Wild Card contention. Yes, he had Barkley, but the OL is arguably better now and the receivers would be way better. So will the defense.
You really think it is impossible for him to win 9 games in 2024 and Mara thinks he's the golden boy again? I don't.
On the flip side, he's one neck injury away from retiring.
Do you think we can win a SB with Jones?
If those odds are so low in your mind, why the hell should we keep him for a sixth tryout?
Who cares what we think if Daboll, Schoen and Mara still have that hopeful, perhaps borderline delusional belief stuck in their heads.
In a fantasy world, it would be amazing if DJ could have a career year with Nabers and better ol play with a solid defense and elite passrush. Then he builds on that career year and we become contenders. It's hard for me to think they don't have that belief stuck somewhere in their minds still.
He’s only 21, he’s a winner, he’s capable of more than what Michigan asked of him, has intangibles, and perception of good arm talent because he has a few flashy throws that look real nice on all 22
I see a guy who had it easy at Michigan - and now people are sitting here projecting that he can do things at the pro-level that he never put on film at Michigan. That at #6…no thank you
This is what I am getting at.
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McCarthy may do nothing in the short-term to save jobs, or prevent regime change. He's too big of a risk for me, given how little film there is to try and project him to the NFL success.
I am so tapped out watching Jones play QB in the NFL that I will hold my nose, accept taking the big risk on McCarthy at #6, and hope DaVoli can get to the bottom of McCarthy and make him work.
It's time to stop hitting off the batting tee, get into the batter's box, and take swings against live pitching. And draft a QB.
If we pass on QB, I still hope we still do the right thing and cut Jones and let Lock start with Cutlets and another QB-to-be-named-later as back-ups two and three. That would be a worthwhile consolation prize.
I hear you. But, I warned the same things when they reached for Jones, stuck with him far too long, and now again at #6 face a significant risk of making the same mistake again.
With or without a new drafted QB in 2024, if Jones does start and has a career renaissance 2.0 and they win 9 games again. They should trade him next offseason. That would be the ideal scenario.
I hear you. But, I warned the same things when they reached for Jones, stuck with him far too long, and now again at #6 face a significant risk of making the same mistake again.
Drafting Jones was a bad move but they could've survived and been competitive by now had they faced reality and moved on much sooner. If the Giants do draft a QB at 6 and it's clear he doesn't have it, they need to pull the plug and move on no matter who it is. That's the most important lesson from the Jones debbacle imo.
With or without a new drafted QB in 2024, if Jones does start and has a career renaissance 2.0 and they win 9 games again. They should trade him next offseason. That would be the ideal scenario.
I suggested in 2020 the Giants should offer Jones and Barkley to trade up and draft Burrow #1 overall (though Cincy would simply laugh and hang up the phone). That was not popular.
I expect if the Giants run it back with Jones again the fans will generally buy back into him.
I hear you. But, I warned the same things when they reached for Jones, stuck with him far too long, and now again at #6 face a significant risk of making the same mistake again.
Hey, I wrote the minute after Jones was announced by Goodell that Jones was over-drafted; and I have killed Schoen for not daring Team Jones to test the market instead of over-paying him last off-season.
However, I will say this - at least McCarthy has more talent than Jones and has succeeded at a big brand under the expectations of a 5-star recruit.
Again, I wouldn't do it, but there are places to go with McCarthy that make considerably more sense than Jones.
Rolling out Daniel Jones next year is going to suck. Really, really, suck. Enough already.
It wouldn't shock me to see the Kerry Collins model in 2025 if no QB is drafted this year.
It wouldn't shock me to see the Kerry Collins model in 2025 if no QB is drafted this year.
We would then have to pay DJ 27-50 million plus an expensive FA qb, that sounds awful.
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years ago, I said the Giants should trade Barkley before the October deadline when the team was 6-2. Barkley was playing his best football since his rookie season. I bet you they could have gotten a late 1st rounder for him. Politically could they have done it? Maybe not. It certainly would have shook the fan base and locker room. But in hindsight, it would have been the right move.
With or without a new drafted QB in 2024, if Jones does start and has a career renaissance 2.0 and they win 9 games again. They should trade him next offseason. That would be the ideal scenario.
I suggested in 2020 the Giants should offer Jones and Barkley to trade up and draft Burrow #1 overall (though Cincy would simply laugh and hang up the phone). That was not popular.
I expect if the Giants run it back with Jones again the fans will generally buy back into him.
They'd have to have a really hot start I think for people to buy back into him.
Again, if you cannot get the QB, get Turner and tell your fanbase you're rebuilding/restoring the Giants defense, which historically has been what the team and fans identify with.
Again, if you cannot get the QB, get Turner and tell your fanbase you're rebuilding/restoring the Giants defense, which historically has been what the team and fans identify with.
Taking Turner over an elite WR prospects would be atrocious when you have Burns, KT and Ojulari. Just my 2 cents
KT remains TBD. Besides as our history has proven, "You can never have enough pass rushers".
KT remains TBD. Besides as our history has proven, "You can never have enough pass rushers".
So you would use the #6 pick for depth?
Brilliant strategy👍👍
He will have a better team and defense around him than he did in 2022.
That's not the issue.
The issues are (1) he can't stay healthy, and (2) he has yet to prove - at his best - he's anything more than just average.
Disagree . At his best DJ is a very limited back up QB .
Is it likely given how this regime tends to build/draft? No. Timelines to win are much shorter now, and they're much more likely to go QB or WR at #6, or trade down, obviously.
But, if you use a premium position, longer-window perspective and determine Turner fits what you're doing, it makes plenty of sense to me.
Welp, sure looks like a few folks are starting to come around to my way of thinking. (:-)
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Why the F would the Giants trade up into the 4-hole
M.S. : 3/3/2024 7:12 pm : link : reply
for JJ McCarthy?
(1) Nothing against the guy, but he hasn’t proven to me that the Giants should surrender draft capital for him;
(2) The Giants roster from 1-to-53 is as weak as any in the NFL. They CANNOT afford to give up draft picks for a gamble;
(3) If they want to pick JJ McCarthy, then stay the hell at 6 and just call his name;
(4) And if he ain’t there anymore, then take a sure-fire WR like Nabers or Odunze or a great offensive lineman or a great EDGE guy!
Welp, sure looks like a few folks are starting to come around to my way of thinking. (:-)
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Why the F would the Giants trade up into the 4-hole
M.S. : 3/3/2024 7:12 pm : link : reply
for JJ McCarthy?
(1) Nothing against the guy, but he hasn’t proven to me that the Giants should surrender draft capital for him;
(2) The Giants roster from 1-to-53 is as weak as any in the NFL. They CANNOT afford to give up draft picks for a gamble;
(3) If they want to pick JJ McCarthy, then stay the hell at 6 and just call his name;
(4) And if he ain’t there anymore, then take a sure-fire WR like Nabers or Odunze or a great offensive lineman or a great EDGE guy!
I agree. I'm less convinced know that the Giants will trade up for any QB at 3-5.
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Recent history shows us the league treats top 10 QBs less preciously than a decade ago.
Swinging and missing on a QB has the same implications as swinging and missing on any other position.
If JJM has the requisite skills, there's no existential risk picking him. He either succeeds or fails, and it should take no more than three years to make that determination.
The biggest shock to my system as an NFL fan is just how disposable 1st-round quarterbacks have become. You never ever would see a franchise cut ties with a first rounder after 2, 3, 4 years. Now it happens all of the time.
Quote:
Welp, sure looks like a few folks are starting to come around to my way of thinking. (:-)
***********************************************************************************************************************
Why the F would the Giants trade up into the 4-hole
M.S. : 3/3/2024 7:12 pm : link : reply
for JJ McCarthy?
(1) Nothing against the guy, but he hasn’t proven to me that the Giants should surrender draft capital for him;
(2) The Giants roster from 1-to-53 is as weak as any in the NFL. They CANNOT afford to give up draft picks for a gamble;
(3) If they want to pick JJ McCarthy, then stay the hell at 6 and just call his name;
(4) And if he ain’t there anymore, then take a sure-fire WR like Nabers or Odunze or a great offensive lineman or a great EDGE guy!
I agree. I'm less convinced know that the Giants will trade up for any QB at 3-5.
This seems like a fair take and one that Schoen could realistically be embracing. Definitely the safest route. The new leaks about Schoen not being interested in JJM could be him hoping to influence JJM lasting to pick 6. I can't seem to find the link or thread that stated Schoen was mad about the Connor Hughes leak linking us to JJM.
I for one am loving how Schoen does a great job keeping everyone guessing about what we will do.