are strictly his opinion though, he didn't sound like he had any inside information on the subject. He also doesn't sound like he knows Mara very well.
are strictly his opinion though, he didn't sound like he had any inside information on the subject. He also doesn't sound like he knows Mara very well.
- if Daniels or Maye fall, the Giants take the guy.
- If they are gone, they take I assume Harrison or Nabers.
- If those five guys are gone, they trade down (no mention of the third WR which I assume is Odunze).
- other guy doesn't believe Daboll will want a QB because he's in a win-now situation. (would support GoDeep's post on Nabers)
up, as they need future draft picks to build up their below average roster. Essentially they take a QB or WR if they fall to 6 or trade back. I guess that eliminates Drake Maye assuming he goes 3 to NE or Minn.
until end... it's about Daboll and the position he is in.
Kind of mirrors what go deep said how Daboll loves Nabors. This is actually scary. A WR might get Daboll a sugar high: maybe we win 7-8 games next year (I have serious doubts), but in the end it’s a fake elevation of the franchise because we’re still stuck with Jones while the rest of the conference, and division has better QB’s (including Washington who figure to get Daniels or Maye).
Why would Daboll believe that his job is safer by passing on a QB and relying on Daniel Jones rebounding and not being affected by the second neck injury and torn ACL? Why on earth would be bet his job on Jones? IMO he is more likely to return in 2025 if the Giants draft a QB and he shows progress if he plays.
Why would Daboll believe that his job is safer by passing on a QB and relying on Daniel Jones rebounding and not being affected by the second neck injury and torn ACL? Why on earth would be bet his job on Jones? IMO he is more likely to return in 2025 if the Giants draft a QB and he shows progress if he plays.
i think this is right but he may not have much of a choice if the top QBs are gone and the best he has a chance to select is QB5.
if Maye or Mccarthy gets to them at 6 i think they'd take them, but id personally bet against them getting there right now.
Why would Daboll believe that his job is safer by passing on a QB and relying on Daniel Jones rebounding and not being affected by the second neck injury and torn ACL? Why on earth would be bet his job on Jones? IMO he is more likely to return in 2025 if the Giants draft a QB and he shows progress if he plays.
If he's overly confident in his abilities to cook mediocre qb play into something good maybe?
So what else is new? This fantasy about trading up was exactly just that, a fantasy. We made our bed with those meaningless wins, now we have to sleep in it. I don't think trading down is as serious an option as people think it is as well. I think the choice will come down to MHJ or Odunze at #6. Only if someone wows us with an offer we can't refuse, do we consider trading down for Penix/Nix and such.
With Daboll's approach is Daniel Jones is one hit away from retirement. That's a dangerous basket to put your eggs in.
Ownership needs to say we believe in you. Take the QB if one falls and the gap to Harrison Jr / Odunze isn't huge. You have years 3 and 4.
Don't take Nabers. He's got too much Beckham/Toney to him and we just can't afford that at 6. Odunze might not be as brilliant but he'll set the tone and have a longer career I reckon.
- if Daniels or Maye fall, the Giants take the guy.
- If they are gone, they take I assume Harrison or Nabers.
- If those five guys are gone, they trade down (no mention of the third WR which I assume is Odunze).
- other guy doesn't believe Daboll will want a QB because he's in a win-now situation. (would support GoDeep's post on Nabers)
If BD doesn't want a QB he'll deserve to be fired in 9 months
Giants stand. With some what seems to be info from a top level NFL exec. Giants will only take a QB if the right one falls to them. I hear an interview like this and I m thinking they are going WR. They ve done all their homework on the QBs but will not give away the farm to get one. They want as many early picks as they can get and keep .
- if Daniels or Maye fall, the Giants take the guy.
- If they are gone, they take I assume Harrison or Nabers.
- If those five guys are gone, they trade down (no mention of the third WR which I assume is Odunze).
- other guy doesn't believe Daboll will want a QB because he's in a win-now situation. (would support GoDeep's post on Nabers)
Giants stand. With some what seems to be info from a top level NFL exec. Giants will only take a QB if the right one falls to them. I hear an interview like this and I m thinking they are going WR. They ve done all their homework on the QBs but will not give away the farm to get one. They want as many early picks as they can get and keep .
Yes.
This doesn't sound crazy to me.
But I do have two questions (and they probably don't know either).
What do the Giants feel about Maye?
What do the Giants feel about Odunze?
The Giants could very well find themselves in a situation where Daniels, Maye, Harrison, and Nabers are off the board.
The exec thinks the Giants will trade down at that point. Do they? Do they pass on Maye and Odunze? (there is a scenario where they could trade down and still get Odunze).
don't think Nix or Penix will make it to the second round. Both might go top 15 or 20. if the Giants don't take a QB at #6 or after a small trade down, it will be interesting to see if they take a QB on day two or just punt the whole decision to next year.
RE: RE: Great thoughts here.And explains with common sense where the
Giants stand. With some what seems to be info from a top level NFL exec. Giants will only take a QB if the right one falls to them. I hear an interview like this and I m thinking they are going WR. They ve done all their homework on the QBs but will not give away the farm to get one. They want as many early picks as they can get and keep .
Yes.
This doesn't sound crazy to me.
But I do have two questions (and they probably don't know either).
What do the Giants feel about Maye?
What do the Giants feel about Odunze?
The Giants could very well find themselves in a situation where Daniels, Maye, Harrison, and Nabers are off the board.
The exec thinks the Giants will trade down at that point. Do they? Do they pass on Maye and Odunze? (there is a scenario where they could trade down and still get Odunze).
It would be pretty gutsy to pass on JJM and Odunze by trading down.
Again, this has already proven to be not the case.
Eric, ‘22 was an outlier. And once defenses learned how to scheme around Jones in Dabs’ offense, the results were horrific. You had that Hawks rookie CB say take away Jones’ first read & it was cake for the defense.
I'm not a fan, but I wouldn't put it past Jones to squeak out 9 wins again with Naber, Hyatt, Robinson, and an improved OL. (Waller could be part of that too).
Given his injury history and the injury clause, would you even have him see the field? I really wouldn’t. It’s a massive risk. If worse comes to worse, start Lock.
Given his injury history and the injury clause, would you even have him see the field? I really wouldn’t. It’s a massive risk. If worse comes to worse, start Lock.
I'd cut him as soon as I can financially.... for him and for us.
Daboll wants to win now, but the ceiling is not very high with this roster and current QB situation. Say what you want in regards to Jones, but his neck injury is no joke. Why he/they would bank their status as HC on a huge question mark (his neck and injury clause) doesn't sit well with me. I like the guy overall as a HC, but it likely won't work out for the guy.
LOL - Personally, I agree with not trading up. I'd take Odunze at 6 and see if Nix is there in 2nd round.
My order of preference:
1. Go balls to the wall to get JD or Maye, but not McCarthy.
2. Trade out of #6 IF JD or Maye don't fall.
3. If you can't execute #2, take OL/Edge/Corner. Taking a WR at #6 is a WR-rich draft is poor draft management, IMV.
If we can't get the QB, the consolation prize to me is getting more draft capital.
Given his injury history and the injury clause, would you even have him see the field? I really wouldn’t. It’s a massive risk. If worse comes to worse, start Lock.
I'd cut him as soon as I can financially.... for him and for us.
The day he passes the physical, see if anyone wants to trade for him and then cut him when nobody wants him.
3 good QB’s, 3 star WR’s. The Giants are guaranteed 1 of them. McCarthy has never been a realistic option for them, which will really anger the little following he’s developed here. He simply does not fit the draft slot/value, situation, or scheme.
And this is also my concern…Dabs might be coaching for his job and thinks a 9-8 season might save him. But that’s shortsighted. The goal should be to build a Super Bowl roster and the quickest way to do that is to get a stud QB. Daniel Jones doesn’t fit that profile. Now maybe they don’t view any of these guys as such. That’s possible.
3 good QB’s, 3 star WR’s. The Giants are guaranteed 1 of them. McCarthy has never been a realistic option for them, which will really anger the little following he’s developed here. He simply does not fit the draft slot/value, situation, or scheme.
Can you clarify:
- why does McCarthy not fit the scheme?
- if McCarthy does not fit the situation, why does Maye? Maye has messy footwork which leads to his mechanics going haywire.
3 good QB’s, 3 star WR’s. The Giants are guaranteed 1 of them. McCarthy has never been a realistic option for them, which will really anger the little following he’s developed here. He simply does not fit the draft slot/value, situation, or scheme.
Won't upset me, would be a bit sad if he goes on to become a franchise QB and we could have had him without a trade up. It's football, not life. We can continue to be below average for another decade and I wouldn't let in phase my personal life.
My issue is if the NYG could get Maye or McCarthy instead and Daboll insists on the WR, he’s going with what’s best for him (self preservation) over the franchise. At that point, I’d really like to know what’s Schoen’s POV. We might win 7-8 games next year with Nabers, but we’d also be stuck with Jones, who isn’t winning us anything significant here.
or belief and that is we need Maye or JJM.. The lack of JJM love here is funny considering you would rather take a potentially DIVA WR with nobody to throw to him. That works out well doesn't it..
3 good QB’s, 3 star WR’s. The Giants are guaranteed 1 of them. McCarthy has never been a realistic option for them, which will really anger the little following he’s developed here. He simply does not fit the draft slot/value, situation, or scheme.
Yes he does. Protects the ball. Can run. Highly athletic. High FB IQ. Strong arm. How does he not fit the Giants?
Because this sort of passivity and lack of awareness of Jones’ injury risk and limited talented is exactly what will lead to everyone getting fired again. Dabolll and Jones better hope they come out next season on fire because if not it’s gonna get uglier than it’s been in awhile
RE: I for one am looking forward to our third reset
Because this sort of passivity and lack of awareness of Jones’ injury risk and limited talented is exactly what will lead to everyone getting fired again. Dabolll and Jones better hope they come out next season on fire because if not it’s gonna get uglier than it’s been in awhile
"uglier than it’s been in awhile"
Did you miss the past 12 years?
RE: RE: I for one am looking forward to our third reset
Because this sort of passivity and lack of awareness of Jones’ injury risk and limited talented is exactly what will lead to everyone getting fired again. Dabolll and Jones better hope they come out next season on fire because if not it’s gonna get uglier than it’s been in awhile
I could see Daboll loving Nabers leaking. I don't see Schoen letting much leak about QBs other than attempts to trade up. The Connor Hughes report about us really liking JJM could be true, or these more recent reports of us not being interested could be true, or they could be intentional leaks to cover up original leak about being interested which Schoen was supposedly mad about. They are doing a good job making everyone uncertain about their plans, which is how it's supposed to be.
If AZ and LAC don't trade then I think Daboll isn't going to get his guy at 6 anyways. Nabers and MHJ will both be gone.
Because this sort of passivity and lack of awareness of Jones’ injury risk and limited talented is exactly what will lead to everyone getting fired again. Dabolll and Jones better hope they come out next season on fire because if not it’s gonna get uglier than it’s been in awhile
"uglier than it’s been in awhile"
Did you miss the past 12 years?
I missed none of it, although I’ll admit going into the season with Jones/DeVito/Lock has me contemplating watching far less giants football.
But by worse I mean I think the stadium could end up half empty and Jones getting booed relentlessly from the start of games. Now imagine he also gets injured and kicks in his guarantee and/or a qb they pass up on looks like a star? How could Daboll and Schoen survive that? Would you even want them to?
I think 2024 could get real UGLY, real QUICK if this team struggles from the gate & Jones-assuming he's on the field-looks lost. Like, people burning tickets in the parking lot before October 1st. I don't know if the FO/ownership realizes how out this fan base is on Jones. & it's just not people on BBI...I see it amongst relatives/friends who are Giant fans...no one, to a man, wants to see him again. Call it unfair or whatever, but people are sick of it. This is his sixth season. Is he going to get ANOTHER coach fired?
anyone know what he said on Nabers? I missed it....thanks.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
Exact quote is
"RE: I know nothing
GoDeep13 : 4/7/2024 10:24 am : link : reply
In comment 16459104 Chris684 said:
Quote:
But I have a feeling NYG has it as Maye and McCarthy for QBs and Harrison Odunze for the WRs.
They really like Nabers. Daboll in particular REALLY likes Nabers. Remember. Daboll liked Diggs as well. Also, Daboll isn’t a choir boy guy (Hyatt is a bit cocky in his own right.) Daboll appreciates fire and a bit of swagger."
anyone know what he said on Nabers? I missed it....thanks.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
Exact quote is
"RE: I know nothing
GoDeep13 : 4/7/2024 10:24 am : link : reply
In comment 16459104 Chris684 said:
Quote:
But I have a feeling NYG has it as Maye and McCarthy for QBs and Harrison Odunze for the WRs.
They really like Nabers. Daboll in particular REALLY likes Nabers. Remember. Daboll liked Diggs as well. Also, Daboll isn’t a choir boy guy (Hyatt is a bit cocky in his own right.) Daboll appreciates fire and a bit of swagger."
This is what Godeep13 said
"They really like Nabers. Daboll in particular REALLY likes Nabers. Remember. Daboll liked Diggs as well. Also, Daboll isn’t a choir boy guy (Hyatt is a bit cocky in his own right.) Daboll appreciates fire and a bit of swagger."
It wouldn't shock me in the least if the boo birds came out after the first 3 & out @ home if Jones is behind center.
& I'm expecting the 'Is BB the next NYG HC?' chatter/articles to be floating about if we get off to a slow start, which I expect because I think we're going to suck hard in '24.
I just watched Joe Klatt's top 50 players in the draft. He's got McCarthy at 14, but after listening to what he said (very similar to Sy), I'm not sure I would be able to pass on him.
Cowherd's comment about trading up not happening because of the Giants being unwilling to give up draft capital would not seem to jive with GoDeep's post last month of Schoen going all in with a trade to the Partiots.
Based on everything we heard I think Daboll does actually prefer Nabers to the other receivers. I also think we have it the wrong way re: Daboll's thoughts on the QBs on the roster. I think the guy Daboll thinks he can mold into a good enough QB with a top WR is Lock. Lock is kind of in the Josh Allen mold in terms of being a big-armed QB and apparently has finally started to "get it" in terms of how he needs to prepare in the NFL.
you can kiss Nabors goodbye b/c someone will jump the Giants to get him.
This is one of those situations where Schoen and Daboll need to be on the same page with regards to Jones. Because its very likely Jones will get hurt again. While its possible he has better results then last year, its unlikely he'll be able to repeat '22.
Why would Daboll believe that his job is safer by passing on a QB and relying on Daniel Jones rebounding and not being affected by the second neck injury and torn ACL? Why on earth would be bet his job on Jones? IMO he is more likely to return in 2025 if the Giants draft a QB and he shows progress if he plays.
And what if he doesn't show progress? What if it's all just too much too soon for the rookie QB and he sucks? IMO, going with Nabers over a QB, isn't as much about Daboll believing in Jones as it is about Daboll believing in himself. That's why they signed Jones to the contract they did. Daboll believes he can win a Super Bowl with Jones...if Jones is healthy, that is. And a bunch of other people are healthy, too, mainly Andrew Thomas and a hopefully much improved OL.
The flip side of this is that he may feel the same about Penix or McCarthy or any of the QB prospects. And with the future of Jones's health in question, he may be inclined to grab a QB earlier than the prospect's grade recommends, merely because he believes the guy will be good enough to build a team around.
p.s.--The two QBs who intrigue me the most are Maye and Penix. And I would gladly sit both for a year if either Jones or Lock has the team winning. The WR I like best is Nabers. I have a feeling one of those three will be a Giant.
I just watched Joe Klatt's top 50 players in the draft. He's got McCarthy at 14, but after listening to what he said (very similar to Sy), I'm not sure I would be able to pass on him.
Did Klatt say that McCarthy was good, but nothing special as well?
Cowherd's comment about trading up not happening because of the Giants being unwilling to give up draft capital would not seem to jive with GoDeep's post last month of Schoen going all in with a trade to the Partiots.
Based on everything we heard I think Daboll does actually prefer Nabers to the other receivers. I also think we have it the wrong way re: Daboll's thoughts on the QBs on the roster. I think the guy Daboll thinks he can mold into a good enough QB with a top WR is Lock. Lock is kind of in the Josh Allen mold in terms of being a big-armed QB and apparently has finally started to "get it" in terms of how he needs to prepare in the NFL.
I am getting the sense Daboll might be overinflating his abilities to get good play out of mediocre QBs. And he might think he's fine with Nabers, improved OL and Lock or Jones under center. That seems like a dangerous level of egotism.
Based solely on a short term goal of wanting to be a fringe playoff team next season, that’s a major problem. The goal should be superbowls and sustained success not having a decent year to make themselves feel safer in their job.
I just watched Joe Klatt's top 50 players in the draft. He's got McCarthy at 14, but after listening to what he said (very similar to Sy), I'm not sure I would be able to pass on him.
This is what I’ve been asking. McCarthy. This is the QB that will be on the board at 6. He has an 84 grade. There are absolutely zero question marks about this kid off the field.
And yes I do believe he will be there as I do not believe that the Cards nor Chargers will be willing to move down to 11 or later.
I just watched Joe Klatt's top 50 players in the draft. He's got McCarthy at 14, but after listening to what he said (very similar to Sy), I'm not sure I would be able to pass on him.
Did Klatt say that McCarthy was good, but nothing special as well?
No, he actually said the opposite if you look at cut ups of his 3rd-and-7+ throws.
I just watched Joe Klatt's top 50 players in the draft. He's got McCarthy at 14, but after listening to what he said (very similar to Sy), I'm not sure I would be able to pass on him.
This is what I’ve been asking. McCarthy. This is the QB that will be on the board at 6. He has an 84 grade. There are absolutely zero question marks about this kid off the field.
And yes I do believe he will be there as I do not believe that the Cards nor Chargers will be willing to move down to 11 or later.
Will the Giants pass on JJ McCarthy at 6?
Schoen is doing a good job keeping everyone guessing. Maybe the Connor Hughes report about Schoen loving JJM and the ensuing report about Schoen's anger over that leak were true and these new reports about us not being interested are damage control; or maybe the original reports weren't true, they did their homework and decided he wasn't worth pick 6 let alone a trade up and these recent reports about us not being interested are true. One of the two is right.
Nabers would be fun to watch and he could take slants and screens from DJ all game long. Who knows maybe Nabers quickly becomes a top WR in the league and we compete for the playoffs.
Or maybe they pay the king's ransom for Maye and he ends up booming instead of busting.
Or Nabers could be gone by pick 6 and we take Odunze or trade down and take Penix later. Unlike previous regimes Schoen does his best to keep everyone guessing. He could even take it a step further and if a leak that is true gets out there he might be good with counterintelligence to refute and muddle the original leak with merit.
This will be a really fun draft no matter what happens. So many possibilities to consider.
I think 2024 could get real UGLY, real QUICK if this team struggles from the gate & Jones-assuming he's on the field-looks lost. Like, people burning tickets in the parking lot before October 1st. I don't know if the FO/ownership realizes how out this fan base is on Jones. & it's just not people on BBI...I see it amongst relatives/friends who are Giant fans...no one, to a man, wants to see him again. Call it unfair or whatever, but people are sick of it. This is his sixth season. Is he going to get ANOTHER coach fired?
This is what’s in store. An ugliness like we have never seen.
2019 2-3 with 6 TDs and 7 ints
2020 1-4 with 2 Tds and 5 ints
2021 1-4 with 4 TDs and 1 INT
2022 3-1 with 3 Tds and 2 int
2023 1-4 with 2 tds and 6 INT
Why would anyone think the above is an aberration? It’s not like he put up numbers and wins at Duke either.
If you had to bet $1,000 right now one way or another, would you bet that Colin Cowherd spoke to anyone in any position in any world that would have any insight into the Giants draft or not?
Did Klatt say that McCarthy was good, but nothing special as well?
No, he actually said the opposite if you look at cut ups of his 3rd-and-7+ throws.
Well, ultimately Sy said McCarthy was good, but not special.
And I know McCarthy's success on third downs (Maye had similar results) and when dealing with pressure. It's a nice talking point, but I have no idea how those results translate to the NFL where the level of play is completely different.
If McCarthy was so special, Harbaugh would sever ties with Herbert, draft McCarthy at #5, and reset with the rookie QB contract.
In comment 16461356 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
Quote:
If you had to bet $1,000 right now one way or another, would you bet that Colin Cowherd spoke to anyone in any position in any world that would have any insight into the Giants draft or not?
I say nay
Quite possibly. Cowherd has been around a long time and on major networks. Some of the underlings he befriended as a young broadcaster are now running teams. People working for franchises want to be friends with people like Cowherd. He knows people. You are kidding yourself if you think he doesn't. Does he know people at the Giants specifically? I doubt it. And so his insight into the inner workings of the Schoen/Daboll regime is probably limited. But he certainly knows people who know them well.
Quite possibly. Cowherd has been around a long time and on major networks. Some of the underlings he befriended as a young broadcaster are now running teams. People working for franchises want to be friends with people like Cowherd. He knows people. You are kidding yourself if you think he doesn't. Does he know people at the Giants specifically? I doubt it. And so his insight into the inner workings of the Schoen/Daboll regime is probably limited. But he certainly knows people who know them well.
He's apparently tight with Tom Telesco and Les Snead. I think he was in the Chargers "war room" a few years ago with Telesco.
I think the guy Daboll thinks he can mold into a good enough QB with a top WR is Lock. Lock is kind of in the Josh Allen mold in terms of being a big-armed QB and apparently has finally started to "get it" in terms of how he needs to prepare in the NFL.
There is no objective evidence to support that.
In 2018, Josh Allen set the all time combine velocity record: 62 mph to both sides of the field.
At the 2019 combine, Drew Lock threw exactly the same as Daniel Jones: 54 mph to one side of the field and 53 mph to the other.
Allen is Allen. Lock does not deserve to be spoken of in his category any more than Jones; which is to say: not at all.
Given his injury history and the injury clause, would you even have him see the field? I really wouldn’t. It’s a massive risk. If worse comes to worse, start Lock.
I'm going to guess if he's medically cleared to play, the doctors and training staff know more than you and I do on this....
they all but gave up on trading up for a QB. They gave up their chip to move up. If they trade next years #1 that would just compile on the disaster. A QB this year is not going to help them. We would be going into the season with the worst offensive roster in the league on paper. Maybe they get lucky and find a WR or RB or TE to help this team but thats a big risk.
A Star WR makes everyone around a little better. A QB on the bench does nothing. If Daboll has 2 disaster seasons in a row he's most likely a goner. If Schoen swings for a QB and trades next years #1 and it turns out to be a top 3 I think he's a goner.
RE: I believe that once the Giants traded for Burns
they all but gave up on trading up for a QB. They gave up their chip to move up. If they trade next years #1 that would just compile on the disaster. A QB this year is not going to help them. We would be going into the season with the worst offensive roster in the league on paper. Maybe they get lucky and find a WR or RB or TE to help this team but thats a big risk.
A Star WR makes everyone around a little better. A QB on the bench does nothing. If Daboll has 2 disaster seasons in a row he's most likely a goner. If Schoen swings for a QB and trades next years #1 and it turns out to be a top 3 I think he's a goner.
We don't know where they would be trading up to though. If it's 3, it "might" require a 2025 1st or 2nd, but if it's a trade up to AZ or LA, maybe not.
RE: I believe that once the Giants traded for Burns
they all but gave up on trading up for a QB. They gave up their chip to move up. If they trade next years #1 that would just compile on the disaster. A QB this year is not going to help them. We would be going into the season with the worst offensive roster in the league on paper. Maybe they get lucky and find a WR or RB or TE to help this team but thats a big risk.
A Star WR makes everyone around a little better. A QB on the bench does nothing. If Daboll has 2 disaster seasons in a row he's most likely a goner. If Schoen swings for a QB and trades next years #1 and it turns out to be a top 3 I think he's a goner.
This is such complete bullshit. A wide receiver makes everyone on the team better but a good qb doesn’t? Wtf are you smoking. And if you’re saying “well the new qb would be sitting in the bench so how do we know if he’ll make people better” I have news for you, your star wide out isn’t getting bombs thrown to him down the field by Daniel fucking Jones
It wouldn't shock me in the least if the boo birds came out after the first 3 & out @ home if Jones is behind center.
& I'm expecting the 'Is BB the next NYG HC?' chatter/articles to be floating about if we get off to a slow start, which I expect because I think we're going to suck hard in '24.
If anything, with all the Titans guys on the staff and front office, the "HC in waiting" would be Vrabel.
I just watched Joe Klatt's top 50 players in the draft. He's got McCarthy at 14, but after listening to what he said (very similar to Sy), I'm not sure I would be able to pass on him.
Me too. We REALLY need a QB and this is a deep draft for WRs. I could live with it either way, but 1st 2 picks QB/WR.
It wouldn't shock me in the least if the boo birds came out after the first 3 & out @ home if Jones is behind center.
& I'm expecting the 'Is BB the next NYG HC?' chatter/articles to be floating about if we get off to a slow start, which I expect because I think we're going to suck hard in '24.
anyone know what he said on Nabers? I missed it....thanks.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
______ Of the big 3, I think Daboll would pick Nabers because his game is how Daboll wants to play the game. And if Odell Beckham was young and available, he would be the pick.
anyone know what he said on Nabers? I missed it....thanks.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
______ Of the big 3, I think Daboll would pick Nabers because his game is how Daboll wants to play the game. And if Odell Beckham was young and available, he would be the pick.
Again, who is getting him the ball downfield?
RE: RE: I believe that once the Giants traded for Burns
they all but gave up on trading up for a QB. They gave up their chip to move up. If they trade next years #1 that would just compile on the disaster. A QB this year is not going to help them. We would be going into the season with the worst offensive roster in the league on paper. Maybe they get lucky and find a WR or RB or TE to help this team but thats a big risk.
A Star WR makes everyone around a little better. A QB on the bench does nothing. If Daboll has 2 disaster seasons in a row he's most likely a goner. If Schoen swings for a QB and trades next years #1 and it turns out to be a top 3 I think he's a goner.
This is such complete bullshit. A wide receiver makes everyone on the team better but a good qb doesn’t? Wtf are you smoking. And if you’re saying “well the new qb would be sitting in the bench so how do we know if he’ll make people better” I have news for you, your star wide out isn’t getting bombs thrown to him down the field by Daniel fucking Jones
No. He'd probably get one in the first 6 games. And then a certain faction would point fingers at the receiver and say he's not that good.
Is that it's like all the other information our there in the media. It comes from executives from teams picking in like the 20's just making their guesses, like the rest of us. It's all speculation.
I'm not convinced there aren't some big surprises out there, by the Giants or other teams in the vicinity of our pick. After Chicago, I'm not sure how much legit info is out there.
We keep thinking Daboll buys time with a rookie QB…
But he could look at this situation and rationally conclude that rolling it back with Jones is his best survival plan.
To be clear, I know absolutely nothing and am just gaming this… and really hoping I’m wrong…
Someone posted the Schoen quotes earlier about Jones and the OL and Micah Parsons and SF… it scared me and I had forgotten about it. Again, I *really* hope I’m wrong, but in that building there could be a lot of love for Jones and rationalization going on right now, and Daboll reads the tea leaves and thinks getting help for Jones is his best option to buy another year.
RE: We keep thinking Daboll buys time with a rookie QB…
But he could look at this situation and rationally conclude that rolling it back with Jones is his best survival plan.
To be clear, I know absolutely nothing and am just gaming this… and really hoping I’m wrong…
Someone posted the Schoen quotes earlier about Jones and the OL and Micah Parsons and SF… it scared me and I had forgotten about it. Again, I *really* hope I’m wrong, but in that building there could be a lot of love for Jones and rationalization going on right now, and Daboll reads the tea leaves and thinks getting help for Jones is his best option to buy another year.
I don't think Daboll is doing mental gymnastics in his head to determine what will give him the most job security. I think he just wants really good players. He probably sees Nabers as one of those players. Someone who he probably thinks will pay more immediate dividends than a raw 21 year old QB (Maye/McCarthy).
I Still Think If The Giants Don’t Trade, It’s QB4 Vs WR3
And he believes that Malik Nabers is going to save him, than it's yet another misfire by this organization. They either should've fired him outright or given him more security (barring an outright disaster). Now the organization doesn't seem aligned and is again potentially chasing short-term goals.
"QB hell" seems like a term so subjective that it's bound to be problematic in discussions like this, so for the sake of clarity, how would you define "QB hell"?
And he believes that Malik Nabers is going to save him, than it's yet another misfire by this organization. They either should've fired him outright or given him more security (barring an outright disaster). Now the organization doesn't seem aligned and is again potentially chasing short-term goals.
This was always the issue. You could see it from a mile away.
The other problem is none of these QBs after Williams have a strong consensus opinion on them. Let's say NYG drafts McCarthy and then fires Daboll, now you are hiring a coach who is excited to work with McCarthy, it potentially limits your options. It's the 2019-2020 cycle all over again,
The best path is to give Daboll added security. I do think any statement of Daboll preferring WR is all based on opinion. A NFL executive is going to assume NYG wouldn't trade up, but I doubt they know either.
And he believes that Malik Nabers is going to save him, than it's yet another misfire by this organization. They either should've fired him outright or given him more security (barring an outright disaster). Now the organization doesn't seem aligned and is again potentially chasing short-term goals.
This was always the issue. You could see it from a mile away.
The other problem is none of these QBs after Williams have a strong consensus opinion on them. Let's say NYG drafts McCarthy and then fires Daboll, now you are hiring a coach who is excited to work with McCarthy, it potentially limits your options. It's the 2019-2020 cycle all over again,
The best path is to give Daboll added security. I do think any statement of Daboll preferring WR is all based on opinion. A NFL executive is going to assume NYG wouldn't trade up, but I doubt they know either.
I really hope it's just conjecture, or they have a couple of moves up their sleeves to address QB if they go WR, because otherwise, what was the point of hiring Daboll? You bring in a guy known for his QB development and you don't give him a single QB prospect to work with? They should've just hired Flores (who probably would've hated Jones based on how hard he was on Tua).
Isn't bad on its own. The Giants may very well have gamed this out. They may think they can scratch enough wins together with their QBs - whoever steps up - and then sign Goff/Dak. Or they may love Cam Ward or Quinn Ewers. A WR can serve a long-term plan.
What's stupid is getting a WR purely because the coach feels pressure to win this season, long-term thinking be damned. This is what every poorly run organization does and is basically Gettleman 2021-redux.
Dave Gettleman put the term "QB hell" in circulation
with an interview given in January 2018, shortly after taking the NYG GM job, and a few months before the 2018 draft.
Dave's definition:
Quote:
"If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years," Gettleman told reporters at the Senior Bowl last week. "You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call quarterback hell. They've got quality defense, they've got a good special teams, and they're going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they've got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy."
Giants have had a hell of a five years since 2019, topping out at 9-7-1. And, apparently, they find themselves needing to trade the farm to get the QB they might have wanted in the 2024 draft.
anyone know what he said on Nabers? I missed it....thanks.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
______ Of the big 3, I think Daboll would pick Nabers because his game is how Daboll wants to play the game. And if Odell Beckham was young and available, he would be the pick.
Again, who is getting him the ball downfield?
That's not how drafting typically works, that's how a fan focuses on the season at hand only.
That's not how drafting typically works, that's how a fan focuses on the season at hand only.
I've been able to talk myself into a WR at six if the best QB options are gone and the price to trade up is too high, but I think it's only acceptable if the team has a long-term plan for how this WR is going to be part of an offense wins divisions and competes for superbowls.
-Getting a WR because you're hoping it will help turn Jones into a player he has never been (a top-10 or even above average passer) - bad
-Getting a WR because Daboll feels it's his best chance to win in 2024 - bad
-Getting a WR because you believe Lock/Jones/DeVito can be an effective caretaker until you acquire a FA QB or rookie in 2025, or you have a trade locked and loaded for Hooker, or you have a plan to grab a QB prospect on day 2 or 3 that you love - fine.
unfortunately, the circumstances are rarely optimal and at #6 it appears to be the case again, unless their QB is there. Asshats already reporting Davoli wants Nabers (to increase the chances of winning rather than starting from scratch with a rookie QB) and their QB target(s) being gone is probably higher than 50/50. I think it's likely a WR at #6.
It might not be optimal for 2024, but this season is looking like another difficult road to success, and it could create more top 10 draft picks for 2025.
unfortunately, the circumstances are rarely optimal and at #6 it appears to be the case again, unless their QB is there. Asshats already reporting Davoli wants Nabers (to increase the chances of winning rather than starting from scratch with a rookie QB) and their QB target(s) being gone is probably higher than 50/50. I think it's likely a WR at #6.
It might not be optimal for 2024, but this season is looking like another difficult road to success, and it could create more top 10 draft picks for 2025.
Just your opinion - do you think Daboll survives if this season produces a top 10 draft pick?
unfortunately, the circumstances are rarely optimal and at #6 it appears to be the case again, unless their QB is there. Asshats already reporting Davoli wants Nabers (to increase the chances of winning rather than starting from scratch with a rookie QB) and their QB target(s) being gone is probably higher than 50/50. I think it's likely a WR at #6.
It might not be optimal for 2024, but this season is looking like another difficult road to success, and it could create more top 10 draft picks for 2025.
Just your opinion - do you think Daboll survives if this season produces a top 10 draft pick?
To me it depends on why we had a Top 10 draft pick. If we ended up that way because we were developing the QB of the future after having Drew Lock play the Kurt Warner role I do think he stays. If we have a Top 10 draft pick because he tried to do more of the same that failed previously I think he is fired.
it might depend on how the fanbase reacts to another loser. I do think Davoli is in a precarious spot going into 2024, but would lean towards him getting a fourth season unless it looks like the first six games of 2023. That would be alarming and very difficult to recommit to, imv.
The problem is the roster still needs a ton of work, and the demonstrated improvement thus far isn't very good or promising.
RE: I for one am looking forward to our third reset
Because this sort of passivity and lack of awareness of Jones’ injury risk and limited talented is exactly what will lead to everyone getting fired again. Dabolll and Jones better hope they come out next season on fire because if not it’s gonna get uglier than it’s been in awhile
I just watched Joe Klatt's top 50 players in the draft. He's got McCarthy at 14, but after listening to what he said (very similar to Sy), I'm not sure I would be able to pass on him.
This is what I’ve been asking. McCarthy. This is the QB that will be on the board at 6. He has an 84 grade. There are absolutely zero question marks about this kid off the field.
And yes I do believe he will be there as I do not believe that the Cards nor Chargers will be willing to move down to 11 or later.
Will the Giants pass on JJ McCarthy at 6?
If the other 3 QBs are taken as well as HMJ and Nabers, I could definitely see them at least consider trading back with Minn or one of the other QB needy teams, over going with Odunze. It depends on their grade on JJM and Odunze, but I can two number ones with one just outside the top 10 being attractive to them if they see a drop on JJM and Odunze compared to WRs and QB ahead of them.
and not fall to the whims of a HC who just wants to pad his own resume to save his job? Daboll should just be one more voice in the room, Schoen should be making the pick with an eye towards the longterm success of the franchise.
it might depend on how the fanbase reacts to another loser. I do think Davoli is in a precarious spot going into 2024, but would lean towards him getting a fourth season unless it looks like the first six games of 2023. That would be alarming and very difficult to recommit to, imv.
The problem is the roster still needs a ton of work, and the demonstrated improvement thus far isn't very good or promising.
I agree. If Mara wants to go by the fans though, status quo at QB will get ugly fast imo.
I think 2024 could get real UGLY, real QUICK if this team struggles from the gate & Jones-assuming he's on the field-looks lost. Like, people burning tickets in the parking lot before October 1st. I don't know if the FO/ownership realizes how out this fan base is on Jones. & it's just not people on BBI...I see it amongst relatives/friends who are Giant fans...no one, to a man, wants to see him again. Call it unfair or whatever, but people are sick of it. This is his sixth season. Is he going to get ANOTHER coach fired?
I want a qb but you're a little over the top with the hyperbole. You're going to watch the entire season regardless of who is playing qb and you'll still be posting on BBI
and not fall to the whims of a HC who just wants to pad his own resume to save his job? Daboll should just be one more voice in the room, Schoen should be making the pick with an eye towards the longterm success of the franchise.
Yes, of course it is, but until Schoen demonstrates alot less "green" decision making, NYG will continue to struggle and make suspect decisions.
I tuned out of some games last season. I didn’t watch a second of the Rams game. I had better things to do on NYE. My apathy for this organization is really growing. And I don’t think I’m alone in that. Even the site owner has alluded that he’s growing sick of this franchise.
& of course it’s on brand for the HC pushing for a WR so he can possibly squeeze out a 9-8 season type season to save his ass. Short term thinking over building a foundation for consistent success.
We had a winning season with Jones in 2022 and he did not look lost. If you are Daboll and you endorsed signing Jones long term(OF course he did), do you believe injuries and circumstance at the start of 2023 or that you completely whiffed on evaluating Jones after practically living with him in 2022 and achieving success together.
If Jones is healthy, he will get every chance to return. Schoen will acquire a QB in this draft because it his job to protect the long term interests of the team, the HC is more short term. This is how it is supposed to work.
I think Jones body will betray him in 2024, but it might not. Jones might play VERY well in 2024, and some fans will be unhappy. So weird.
DISCLOSURE
I am not part of a cult for a differing opinion, I would draft McCarthy at 6 over a WR.
If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
What I am really curious about is what do they do in the scenario that 4 QBs go ahead of them, and Arizona or San Diego takes Nabers as the first WR off the board?
Do they look to trade back, or do they like either Harrison Jr or Odunze enough to stick with drafting a WR at 6? As someone pointed out in a thread a few days ago, Schoen does seem to focus more on specific players rather than specific positions when drafting so I wonder how this will play out if their 3 guys are all taken ahead of them.
RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
What I am really curious about is what do they do in the scenario that 4 QBs go ahead of them, and Arizona or San Diego takes Nabers as the first WR off the board?
Do they look to trade back, or do they like either Harrison Jr or Odunze enough to stick with drafting a WR at 6? As someone pointed out in a thread a few days ago, Schoen does seem to focus more on specific players rather than specific positions when drafting so I wonder how this will play out if their 3 guys are all taken ahead of them.
I think this draft is 7 deep and the GIants pick at 6. Don’t think they are moving up. They are going to let it come to them. More likely to trade down than up IMO.
RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
I doubt Raanan knows or anyone. I trust Schoen is tight lipped on this. The only reason the Burns leak get out was someone connected to the agency side. The Giants appear to be very secretive about this draft process.
However, if true - NYG will very likely have the opportunity to draft McCarthy at 6.
We had a winning season with Jones in 2022 and he did not look lost. If you are Daboll and you endorsed signing Jones long term(OF course he did), do you believe injuries and circumstance at the start of 2023 or that you completely whiffed on evaluating Jones after practically living with him in 2022 and achieving success together.
If Jones is healthy, he will get every chance to return. Schoen will acquire a QB in this draft because it his job to protect the long term interests of the team, the HC is more short term. This is how it is supposed to work.
I think Jones body will betray him in 2024, but it might not. Jones might play VERY well in 2024, and some fans will be unhappy. So weird.
DISCLOSURE
I am not part of a cult for a differing opinion, I would draft McCarthy at 6 over a WR.
Jones has already been given every chance.. he was miserable in 2023. You can't have a starting QB who has horrid play within possible outcomes.
Unfortunately the plan didn't pan out with last seasons skill player additions and expected OL improvement (it got a lot worse) and now the Giants added QB (I think) to the WR need.
RE: RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
I doubt Raanan knows or anyone. I trust Schoen is tight lipped on this. The only reason the Burns leak get out was someone connected to the agency side. The Giants appear to be very secretive about this draft process.
However, if true - NYG will very likely have the opportunity to draft McCarthy at 6.
Also, RV gave literally the exact opposite word. I don't think any of these guys know anything. I think they're all talking to people from other teams who are making guesses just like the rest of us.
RE: RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
I doubt Raanan knows or anyone. I trust Schoen is tight lipped on this. The only reason the Burns leak get out was someone connected to the agency side. The Giants appear to be very secretive about this draft process.
However, if true - NYG will very likely have the opportunity to draft McCarthy at 6.
I don't think any of these guys have a real clue tbh, but I believe Raanan is more plugged for NYG than any of these other pundits. Connor Hughes is also closer to the pulse and reported Giants liking JJM. Seems like there is a concerted effort to muddle our preferences which is nice. All the sudden we are hearing reports that we don't like JJM, meanwhile there has been a consistent buzz about us liking him. Maybe they are basically hoping for Nabers or JJM at 6, knowing Maye won't make it there. One of the two should be there at 6 with CW, JD, Maye, MHJ, then Nabers or JJM as the 5th off the board which means we will very likely get one of them at 6 barring some kind of big surprise.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
All the sudden we are hearing reports that we don't like JJM,
Who has reported that we actually don't like JJM? I've only heard that from posters here.
Cowherd did too, no? And a reported asshat connection here too? Its smelling like disinformation, I think Schoen is hoping for JJM at 6 while being ok with Nabers at 6 too. It's really feeling like it will be one of those two at 6.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
I doubt Raanan knows or anyone. I trust Schoen is tight lipped on this. The only reason the Burns leak get out was someone connected to the agency side. The Giants appear to be very secretive about this draft process.
However, if true - NYG will very likely have the opportunity to draft McCarthy at 6.
Also, RV gave literally the exact opposite word. I don't think any of these guys know anything. I think they're all talking to people from other teams who are making guesses just like the rest of us.
I think Schoen might be putting out smoke now and it's interesting to see these recent asshat and pundit reports about us not liking JJM. It honestly makes me think Schoen is hoping he makes it to pick 6 and if he doesn't then they go with Daboll's boy Nabers. We will get 1 of the two in all likelihood.
RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
This is ridiculous -- the scouts just came in this week to set up the board
RE: RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
This is ridiculous -- the scouts just came in this week to set up the board
All of this is 100% speculation with some likely intentional smokey misinformation sprinkled in as well.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
All the sudden we are hearing reports that we don't like JJM,
Who has reported that we actually don't like JJM? I've only heard that from posters here.
Cowherd did too, no? And a reported asshat connection here too? Its smelling like disinformation, I think Schoen is hoping for JJM at 6 while being ok with Nabers at 6 too. It's really feeling like it will be one of those two at 6.
I thought Cowherd said the Giants were hoping Daniels or Maye fell to them. not necessarily that they didn't like McCarthy. In fact, I found the omission to be interesting.
There was an actual asshat here who said the Giants weren't high on JJM?
RE: RE: RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
Also, RV gave literally the exact opposite word. I don't think any of these guys know anything. I think they're all talking to people from other teams who are making guesses just like the rest of us.
The "insider" chatter tends to come from agents, IMO, not teams/players/execs. To that end, there's some buzz-curation in that gossip (although that's a tricky maneuver for an agent, because you don't want to create a "Will Levis has top-5 momentum" narrative that quickly becomes "why has the NFL gone cold on Will Levis after hyping him as a top-5 pick?").
No doubt there are some kernels of sincere truth contained within the chatter, but I think you have to do your homework as to which beats (or league insiders) have good relationships with certain agents, and you'd base that on what scoops they've broken in the past (and who the agent for the player involved was).
Raanan's info might be reliable if his relationship(s) with the agents for those players is strong. For example, if any of those prospects are represented by the same agency as Wink Martindale, Jordan is probably pretty plugged in. If it's the same agency as Mike Kafka, Jordan is probably throwing shit against the wall and hoping for clicks.
On the other hand, this is the time of year that the team-friendly beats (Vacchiano and Schwartz most prominently come to mind, IMO) might be used for countering the leaks coming out on the agent side, so when Ralph or Schwartz (or Mike G) come out on the opposite side of a rumor from one of the more gossipy beats, it might actually confirm that the rumor the beat stumbled onto is legitimate enough to merit a counter smokescreen from the team.
If the end result is a feeling of "nobody knows what the team has planned!" then everything is working as intended.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
All the sudden we are hearing reports that we don't like JJM,
Who has reported that we actually don't like JJM? I've only heard that from posters here.
Cowherd did too, no? And a reported asshat connection here too? Its smelling like disinformation, I think Schoen is hoping for JJM at 6 while being ok with Nabers at 6 too. It's really feeling like it will be one of those two at 6.
I thought Cowherd said the Giants were hoping Daniels or Maye fell to them. not necessarily that they didn't like McCarthy. In fact, I found the omission to be interesting.
There was an actual asshat here who said the Giants weren't high on JJM?
Yes, I will find the post for you. Here you go:
Quote:
In comment 16460749 Woodstock said:
Quote:
I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
Also, RV gave literally the exact opposite word. I don't think any of these guys know anything. I think they're all talking to people from other teams who are making guesses just like the rest of us.
The "insider" chatter tends to come from agents, IMO, not teams/players/execs. To that end, there's some buzz-curation in that gossip (although that's a tricky maneuver for an agent, because you don't want to create a "Will Levis has top-5 momentum" narrative that quickly becomes "why has the NFL gone cold on Will Levis after hyping him as a top-5 pick?").
No doubt there are some kernels of sincere truth contained within the chatter, but I think you have to do your homework as to which beats (or league insiders) have good relationships with certain agents, and you'd base that on what scoops they've broken in the past (and who the agent for the player involved was).
Raanan's info might be reliable if his relationship(s) with the agents for those players is strong. For example, if any of those prospects are represented by the same agency as Wink Martindale, Jordan is probably pretty plugged in. If it's the same agency as Mike Kafka, Jordan is probably throwing shit against the wall and hoping for clicks.
On the other hand, this is the time of year that the team-friendly beats (Vacchiano and Schwartz most prominently come to mind, IMO) might be used for countering the leaks coming out on the agent side, so when Ralph or Schwartz (or Mike G) come out on the opposite side of a rumor from one of the more gossipy beats, it might actually confirm that the rumor the beat stumbled onto is legitimate enough to merit a counter smokescreen from the team.
If the end result is a feeling of "nobody knows what the team has planned!" then everything is working as intended.
Yes I agree, which leads me to have a hunch our plan is to stay at 6 and draft JJM or Nabers. In all likelihood one of those two will be there at 6 with CW, JD, Maye, MHJ going followed by one of JJM/Nabers which would leave one of them at 6.
"QB hell" seems like a term so subjective that it's bound to be problematic in discussions like this, so for the sake of clarity, how would you define "QB hell"?
Former US Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart said this about porn, "I know it when I see it..."
I feel similarly about QB Hell. You know it when you see it. ;)
Seriously, I would generally frame it this way:
If you don't think the current QBs on your roster can make the team a perennial playoff/SB contender, and finding a possible solution is still in doubt, you are in QB Hell.
It comes from all of that, but a huge source is executives from other teams who aren't picking near them. When you hear "league source" that's often what it is. You will even hear them come right out and say it --an executive from another team.
But the point is, I think the league has gotten smarter about this in general. We used to always have a very good idea. Right now so much feels like guesses. There is speculation but nothing more than that from Washington on up. The league is wizening up --you don't have guys with bourbon in hand yapping away to their buddies about what they're going to do. 99% of what you hear is removed from the source speculation and connecting the dots.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the recent reporting/asshat rumors are to be believed
I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
Thanks. Schoen/Daboll are going to be truly effed if they go this route, the offense looks bad and one of JJM, Penix, or Nix hits.
I think Schoen is leaking a bunch of smoke right now. The vibe I get is price is too high to get to 3 and they've decided to stand pat at 6 with hopes of Nabers or JJM.
RE: I'd pay attention to Hughes, RV, Mike G, Duggan
RV has very often hit the targets closer to the draft, Mike G always has sound info, Hughes has had alot of good info more recently.
Raanan really doesn't seem nearly as plugged in.
Hughes is the one that said we really like JJM and then supposedly Schoen was mad about that. At this point, I think Gatorade is right and RV would mote likely be leaking smoke for the NYG than saying anything true.
-They'll take a QB if the right one fell.
-Price to trade up likely is too high.
-Really good player can be pushed down to them.
-Could trade down.
Essentially, there are a ton of options for NYG.
He was one of Wink's mouthpieces. (Middlekauff)
- If they are gone, they take I assume Harrison or Nabers.
- If those five guys are gone, they trade down (no mention of the third WR which I assume is Odunze).
- other guy doesn't believe Daboll will want a QB because he's in a win-now situation. (would support GoDeep's post on Nabers)
Kind of mirrors what go deep said how Daboll loves Nabors. This is actually scary. A WR might get Daboll a sugar high: maybe we win 7-8 games next year (I have serious doubts), but in the end it’s a fake elevation of the franchise because we’re still stuck with Jones while the rest of the conference, and division has better QB’s (including Washington who figure to get Daniels or Maye).
i think this is right but he may not have much of a choice if the top QBs are gone and the best he has a chance to select is QB5.
if Maye or Mccarthy gets to them at 6 i think they'd take them, but id personally bet against them getting there right now.
If he's overly confident in his abilities to cook mediocre qb play into something good maybe?
Ownership needs to say we believe in you. Take the QB if one falls and the gap to Harrison Jr / Odunze isn't huge. You have years 3 and 4.
Don't take Nabers. He's got too much Beckham/Toney to him and we just can't afford that at 6. Odunze might not be as brilliant but he'll set the tone and have a longer career I reckon.
- If they are gone, they take I assume Harrison or Nabers.
- If those five guys are gone, they trade down (no mention of the third WR which I assume is Odunze).
- other guy doesn't believe Daboll will want a QB because he's in a win-now situation. (would support GoDeep's post on Nabers)
If BD doesn't want a QB he'll deserve to be fired in 9 months
- If they are gone, they take I assume Harrison or Nabers.
- If those five guys are gone, they trade down (no mention of the third WR which I assume is Odunze).
- other guy doesn't believe Daboll will want a QB because he's in a win-now situation. (would support GoDeep's post on Nabers)
What was GoDeep's post on Nabers? I missed it.
It is neither.
Yes.
This doesn't sound crazy to me.
But I do have two questions (and they probably don't know either).
What do the Giants feel about Maye?
What do the Giants feel about Odunze?
The Giants could very well find themselves in a situation where Daniels, Maye, Harrison, and Nabers are off the board.
The exec thinks the Giants will trade down at that point. Do they? Do they pass on Maye and Odunze? (there is a scenario where they could trade down and still get Odunze).
Again, this has already proven to be not the case.
Quote:
Giants stand. With some what seems to be info from a top level NFL exec. Giants will only take a QB if the right one falls to them. I hear an interview like this and I m thinking they are going WR. They ve done all their homework on the QBs but will not give away the farm to get one. They want as many early picks as they can get and keep .
Yes.
This doesn't sound crazy to me.
But I do have two questions (and they probably don't know either).
What do the Giants feel about Maye?
What do the Giants feel about Odunze?
The Giants could very well find themselves in a situation where Daniels, Maye, Harrison, and Nabers are off the board.
The exec thinks the Giants will trade down at that point. Do they? Do they pass on Maye and Odunze? (there is a scenario where they could trade down and still get Odunze).
It would be pretty gutsy to pass on JJM and Odunze by trading down.
Quote:
mode, with a QB that can’t win.
Again, this has already proven to be not the case.
Eric, ‘22 was an outlier. And once defenses learned how to scheme around Jones in Dabs’ offense, the results were horrific. You had that Hawks rookie CB say take away Jones’ first read & it was cake for the defense.
Problem is he has stay on the field too, however.
I'd cut him as soon as I can financially.... for him and for us.
Quote:
like Draft Hell on top of QB Hell.
LOL - Personally, I agree with not trading up. I'd take Odunze at 6 and see if Nix is there in 2nd round.
My order of preference:
1. Go balls to the wall to get JD or Maye, but not McCarthy.
2. Trade out of #6 IF JD or Maye don't fall.
3. If you can't execute #2, take OL/Edge/Corner. Taking a WR at #6 is a WR-rich draft is poor draft management, IMV.
If we can't get the QB, the consolation prize to me is getting more draft capital.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
Quote:
Given his injury history and the injury clause, would you even have him see the field? I really wouldn’t. It’s a massive risk. If worse comes to worse, start Lock.
I'd cut him as soon as I can financially.... for him and for us.
The day he passes the physical, see if anyone wants to trade for him and then cut him when nobody wants him.
And this is also my concern…Dabs might be coaching for his job and thinks a 9-8 season might save him. But that’s shortsighted. The goal should be to build a Super Bowl roster and the quickest way to do that is to get a stud QB. Daniel Jones doesn’t fit that profile. Now maybe they don’t view any of these guys as such. That’s possible.
Can you clarify:
- why does McCarthy not fit the scheme?
- if McCarthy does not fit the situation, why does Maye? Maye has messy footwork which leads to his mechanics going haywire.
Won't upset me, would be a bit sad if he goes on to become a franchise QB and we could have had him without a trade up. It's football, not life. We can continue to be below average for another decade and I wouldn't let in phase my personal life.
I don't think folks know what the giants are thinking WR wise. I think they are just guessing.
Yes he does. Protects the ball. Can run. Highly athletic. High FB IQ. Strong arm. How does he not fit the Giants?
I don't think folks know what the giants are thinking WR wise. I think they are just guessing.
We've had one legit asshat and one unknown asshat say Nabers.
"uglier than it’s been in awhile"
Did you miss the past 12 years?
Quote:
Because this sort of passivity and lack of awareness of Jones’ injury risk and limited talented is exactly what will lead to everyone getting fired again. Dabolll and Jones better hope they come out next season on fire because if not it’s gonna get uglier than it’s been in awhile
"uglier than it’s been in awhile"
Did you miss the past 12 years?
Yeah, it will just be more of the same. Oh well.
If AZ and LAC don't trade then I think Daboll isn't going to get his guy at 6 anyways. Nabers and MHJ will both be gone.
Quote:
Because this sort of passivity and lack of awareness of Jones’ injury risk and limited talented is exactly what will lead to everyone getting fired again. Dabolll and Jones better hope they come out next season on fire because if not it’s gonna get uglier than it’s been in awhile
"uglier than it’s been in awhile"
Did you miss the past 12 years?
I missed none of it, although I’ll admit going into the season with Jones/DeVito/Lock has me contemplating watching far less giants football.
But by worse I mean I think the stadium could end up half empty and Jones getting booed relentlessly from the start of games. Now imagine he also gets injured and kicks in his guarantee and/or a qb they pass up on looks like a star? How could Daboll and Schoen survive that? Would you even want them to?
Quote:
anyone know what he said on Nabers? I missed it....thanks.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
Exact quote is
"RE: I know nothing
GoDeep13 : 4/7/2024 10:24 am : link : reply
In comment 16459104 Chris684 said:
Quote:
But I have a feeling NYG has it as Maye and McCarthy for QBs and Harrison Odunze for the WRs.
They really like Nabers. Daboll in particular REALLY likes Nabers. Remember. Daboll liked Diggs as well. Also, Daboll isn’t a choir boy guy (Hyatt is a bit cocky in his own right.) Daboll appreciates fire and a bit of swagger."
Quote:
In comment 16461281 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
anyone know what he said on Nabers? I missed it....thanks.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
Exact quote is
"RE: I know nothing
GoDeep13 : 4/7/2024 10:24 am : link : reply
In comment 16459104 Chris684 said:
Quote:
But I have a feeling NYG has it as Maye and McCarthy for QBs and Harrison Odunze for the WRs.
They really like Nabers. Daboll in particular REALLY likes Nabers. Remember. Daboll liked Diggs as well. Also, Daboll isn’t a choir boy guy (Hyatt is a bit cocky in his own right.) Daboll appreciates fire and a bit of swagger."
This is what Godeep13 said
"They really like Nabers. Daboll in particular REALLY likes Nabers. Remember. Daboll liked Diggs as well. Also, Daboll isn’t a choir boy guy (Hyatt is a bit cocky in his own right.) Daboll appreciates fire and a bit of swagger."
& I'm expecting the 'Is BB the next NYG HC?' chatter/articles to be floating about if we get off to a slow start, which I expect because I think we're going to suck hard in '24.
Based on everything we heard I think Daboll does actually prefer Nabers to the other receivers. I also think we have it the wrong way re: Daboll's thoughts on the QBs on the roster. I think the guy Daboll thinks he can mold into a good enough QB with a top WR is Lock. Lock is kind of in the Josh Allen mold in terms of being a big-armed QB and apparently has finally started to "get it" in terms of how he needs to prepare in the NFL.
This is one of those situations where Schoen and Daboll need to be on the same page with regards to Jones. Because its very likely Jones will get hurt again. While its possible he has better results then last year, its unlikely he'll be able to repeat '22.
The flip side of this is that he may feel the same about Penix or McCarthy or any of the QB prospects. And with the future of Jones's health in question, he may be inclined to grab a QB earlier than the prospect's grade recommends, merely because he believes the guy will be good enough to build a team around.
p.s.--The two QBs who intrigue me the most are Maye and Penix. And I would gladly sit both for a year if either Jones or Lock has the team winning. The WR I like best is Nabers. I have a feeling one of those three will be a Giant.
Btw, this thing about Nabers’ character is getting really distorted.
Did Klatt say that McCarthy was good, but nothing special as well?
Based on everything we heard I think Daboll does actually prefer Nabers to the other receivers. I also think we have it the wrong way re: Daboll's thoughts on the QBs on the roster. I think the guy Daboll thinks he can mold into a good enough QB with a top WR is Lock. Lock is kind of in the Josh Allen mold in terms of being a big-armed QB and apparently has finally started to "get it" in terms of how he needs to prepare in the NFL.
I am getting the sense Daboll might be overinflating his abilities to get good play out of mediocre QBs. And he might think he's fine with Nabers, improved OL and Lock or Jones under center. That seems like a dangerous level of egotism.
This is what I’ve been asking. McCarthy. This is the QB that will be on the board at 6. He has an 84 grade. There are absolutely zero question marks about this kid off the field.
And yes I do believe he will be there as I do not believe that the Cards nor Chargers will be willing to move down to 11 or later.
Will the Giants pass on JJ McCarthy at 6?
Quote:
I just watched Joe Klatt's top 50 players in the draft. He's got McCarthy at 14, but after listening to what he said (very similar to Sy), I'm not sure I would be able to pass on him.
Did Klatt say that McCarthy was good, but nothing special as well?
No, he actually said the opposite if you look at cut ups of his 3rd-and-7+ throws.
Joel Klatt Ranks his Top 50 Players in the 2024 NFL Draft - ( New Window )
Quote:
I just watched Joe Klatt's top 50 players in the draft. He's got McCarthy at 14, but after listening to what he said (very similar to Sy), I'm not sure I would be able to pass on him.
This is what I’ve been asking. McCarthy. This is the QB that will be on the board at 6. He has an 84 grade. There are absolutely zero question marks about this kid off the field.
And yes I do believe he will be there as I do not believe that the Cards nor Chargers will be willing to move down to 11 or later.
Will the Giants pass on JJ McCarthy at 6?
Schoen is doing a good job keeping everyone guessing. Maybe the Connor Hughes report about Schoen loving JJM and the ensuing report about Schoen's anger over that leak were true and these new reports about us not being interested are damage control; or maybe the original reports weren't true, they did their homework and decided he wasn't worth pick 6 let alone a trade up and these recent reports about us not being interested are true. One of the two is right.
Nabers would be fun to watch and he could take slants and screens from DJ all game long. Who knows maybe Nabers quickly becomes a top WR in the league and we compete for the playoffs.
Or maybe they pay the king's ransom for Maye and he ends up booming instead of busting.
Or Nabers could be gone by pick 6 and we take Odunze or trade down and take Penix later. Unlike previous regimes Schoen does his best to keep everyone guessing. He could even take it a step further and if a leak that is true gets out there he might be good with counterintelligence to refute and muddle the original leak with merit.
This will be a really fun draft no matter what happens. So many possibilities to consider.
This is what’s in store. An ugliness like we have never seen.
2019 2-3 with 6 TDs and 7 ints
2020 1-4 with 2 Tds and 5 ints
2021 1-4 with 4 TDs and 1 INT
2022 3-1 with 3 Tds and 2 int
2023 1-4 with 2 tds and 6 INT
Why would anyone think the above is an aberration? It’s not like he put up numbers and wins at Duke either.
I say nay
Did Klatt say that McCarthy was good, but nothing special as well?
No, he actually said the opposite if you look at cut ups of his 3rd-and-7+ throws.
Well, ultimately Sy said McCarthy was good, but not special.
And I know McCarthy's success on third downs (Maye had similar results) and when dealing with pressure. It's a nice talking point, but I have no idea how those results translate to the NFL where the level of play is completely different.
If McCarthy was so special, Harbaugh would sever ties with Herbert, draft McCarthy at #5, and reset with the rookie QB contract.
I say nay
Quite possibly. Cowherd has been around a long time and on major networks. Some of the underlings he befriended as a young broadcaster are now running teams. People working for franchises want to be friends with people like Cowherd. He knows people. You are kidding yourself if you think he doesn't. Does he know people at the Giants specifically? I doubt it. And so his insight into the inner workings of the Schoen/Daboll regime is probably limited. But he certainly knows people who know them well.
Quite possibly. Cowherd has been around a long time and on major networks. Some of the underlings he befriended as a young broadcaster are now running teams. People working for franchises want to be friends with people like Cowherd. He knows people. You are kidding yourself if you think he doesn't. Does he know people at the Giants specifically? I doubt it. And so his insight into the inner workings of the Schoen/Daboll regime is probably limited. But he certainly knows people who know them well.
He's apparently tight with Tom Telesco and Les Snead. I think he was in the Chargers "war room" a few years ago with Telesco.
He's full of shit. He also said JJ was a 3rd round prospect.
There is no objective evidence to support that.
In 2018, Josh Allen set the all time combine velocity record: 62 mph to both sides of the field.
At the 2019 combine, Drew Lock threw exactly the same as Daniel Jones: 54 mph to one side of the field and 53 mph to the other.
Allen is Allen. Lock does not deserve to be spoken of in his category any more than Jones; which is to say: not at all.
I said I could live with it (McCarthy) because I want someone more talented than Jones.
But I would absolutely prefer a more dynamic and special prospect. That's what is winning in the NFL right now.
I'm going to guess if he's medically cleared to play, the doctors and training staff know more than you and I do on this....
A Star WR makes everyone around a little better. A QB on the bench does nothing. If Daboll has 2 disaster seasons in a row he's most likely a goner. If Schoen swings for a QB and trades next years #1 and it turns out to be a top 3 I think he's a goner.
A Star WR makes everyone around a little better. A QB on the bench does nothing. If Daboll has 2 disaster seasons in a row he's most likely a goner. If Schoen swings for a QB and trades next years #1 and it turns out to be a top 3 I think he's a goner.
We don't know where they would be trading up to though. If it's 3, it "might" require a 2025 1st or 2nd, but if it's a trade up to AZ or LA, maybe not.
A Star WR makes everyone around a little better. A QB on the bench does nothing. If Daboll has 2 disaster seasons in a row he's most likely a goner. If Schoen swings for a QB and trades next years #1 and it turns out to be a top 3 I think he's a goner.
This is such complete bullshit. A wide receiver makes everyone on the team better but a good qb doesn’t? Wtf are you smoking. And if you’re saying “well the new qb would be sitting in the bench so how do we know if he’ll make people better” I have news for you, your star wide out isn’t getting bombs thrown to him down the field by Daniel fucking Jones
& I'm expecting the 'Is BB the next NYG HC?' chatter/articles to be floating about if we get off to a slow start, which I expect because I think we're going to suck hard in '24.
If anything, with all the Titans guys on the staff and front office, the "HC in waiting" would be Vrabel.
Me too. We REALLY need a QB and this is a deep draft for WRs. I could live with it either way, but 1st 2 picks QB/WR.
& I'm expecting the 'Is BB the next NYG HC?' chatter/articles to be floating about if we get off to a slow start, which I expect because I think we're going to suck hard in '24.
Gas up the plane...
Quote:
anyone know what he said on Nabers? I missed it....thanks.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
Quote:
In comment 16461281 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
anyone know what he said on Nabers? I missed it....thanks.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
______ Of the big 3, I think Daboll would pick Nabers because his game is how Daboll wants to play the game. And if Odell Beckham was young and available, he would be the pick.
Again, who is getting him the ball downfield?
Quote:
they all but gave up on trading up for a QB. They gave up their chip to move up. If they trade next years #1 that would just compile on the disaster. A QB this year is not going to help them. We would be going into the season with the worst offensive roster in the league on paper. Maybe they get lucky and find a WR or RB or TE to help this team but thats a big risk.
A Star WR makes everyone around a little better. A QB on the bench does nothing. If Daboll has 2 disaster seasons in a row he's most likely a goner. If Schoen swings for a QB and trades next years #1 and it turns out to be a top 3 I think he's a goner.
This is such complete bullshit. A wide receiver makes everyone on the team better but a good qb doesn’t? Wtf are you smoking. And if you’re saying “well the new qb would be sitting in the bench so how do we know if he’ll make people better” I have news for you, your star wide out isn’t getting bombs thrown to him down the field by Daniel fucking Jones
No. He'd probably get one in the first 6 games. And then a certain faction would point fingers at the receiver and say he's not that good.
I'm not convinced there aren't some big surprises out there, by the Giants or other teams in the vicinity of our pick. After Chicago, I'm not sure how much legit info is out there.
To be clear, I know absolutely nothing and am just gaming this… and really hoping I’m wrong…
Someone posted the Schoen quotes earlier about Jones and the OL and Micah Parsons and SF… it scared me and I had forgotten about it. Again, I *really* hope I’m wrong, but in that building there could be a lot of love for Jones and rationalization going on right now, and Daboll reads the tea leaves and thinks getting help for Jones is his best option to buy another year.
To be clear, I know absolutely nothing and am just gaming this… and really hoping I’m wrong…
Someone posted the Schoen quotes earlier about Jones and the OL and Micah Parsons and SF… it scared me and I had forgotten about it. Again, I *really* hope I’m wrong, but in that building there could be a lot of love for Jones and rationalization going on right now, and Daboll reads the tea leaves and thinks getting help for Jones is his best option to buy another year.
I don't think Daboll is doing mental gymnastics in his head to determine what will give him the most job security. I think he just wants really good players. He probably sees Nabers as one of those players. Someone who he probably thinks will pay more immediate dividends than a raw 21 year old QB (Maye/McCarthy).
WR1a MHJ
WR1b Nabers
WR3 Odunze
The QBs seem to be:
QB1 Williams
QB2 Daniels
QB3a Maye
QB3b McCarthy
QB5a Penix
QB5b Nix
Giants will have the choice from among McCarthy or Maye or Odunze.
Odunze would be an excellent consolation prize.
WR1a MHJ
WR1b Nabers
WR3 Odunze
The QBs seem to be:
QB1 Williams
QB2 Daniels
QB3a Maye
QB3b McCarthy
QB5a Penix
QB5b Nix
Giants will have the choice from among McCarthy or Maye or Odunze.
Odunze would be an excellent consolation prize.
This is a good guess.
Quote:
like Draft Hell on top of QB Hell.
It is neither.
"QB hell" seems like a term so subjective that it's bound to be problematic in discussions like this, so for the sake of clarity, how would you define "QB hell"?
This was always the issue. You could see it from a mile away.
The other problem is none of these QBs after Williams have a strong consensus opinion on them. Let's say NYG drafts McCarthy and then fires Daboll, now you are hiring a coach who is excited to work with McCarthy, it potentially limits your options. It's the 2019-2020 cycle all over again,
The best path is to give Daboll added security. I do think any statement of Daboll preferring WR is all based on opinion. A NFL executive is going to assume NYG wouldn't trade up, but I doubt they know either.
Quote:
And he believes that Malik Nabers is going to save him, than it's yet another misfire by this organization. They either should've fired him outright or given him more security (barring an outright disaster). Now the organization doesn't seem aligned and is again potentially chasing short-term goals.
This was always the issue. You could see it from a mile away.
The other problem is none of these QBs after Williams have a strong consensus opinion on them. Let's say NYG drafts McCarthy and then fires Daboll, now you are hiring a coach who is excited to work with McCarthy, it potentially limits your options. It's the 2019-2020 cycle all over again,
The best path is to give Daboll added security. I do think any statement of Daboll preferring WR is all based on opinion. A NFL executive is going to assume NYG wouldn't trade up, but I doubt they know either.
I really hope it's just conjecture, or they have a couple of moves up their sleeves to address QB if they go WR, because otherwise, what was the point of hiring Daboll? You bring in a guy known for his QB development and you don't give him a single QB prospect to work with? They should've just hired Flores (who probably would've hated Jones based on how hard he was on Tua).
What's stupid is getting a WR purely because the coach feels pressure to win this season, long-term thinking be damned. This is what every poorly run organization does and is basically Gettleman 2021-redux.
Dave's definition:
Giants have had a hell of a five years since 2019, topping out at 9-7-1. And, apparently, they find themselves needing to trade the farm to get the QB they might have wanted in the 2024 draft.
Apropos, I would say.
nj.com - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 16461283 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 16461281 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
anyone know what he said on Nabers? I missed it....thanks.
It was in the Rico thread few days ago..
To put it simply, he said Daboll wants Nabers.
______ Of the big 3, I think Daboll would pick Nabers because his game is how Daboll wants to play the game. And if Odell Beckham was young and available, he would be the pick.
Again, who is getting him the ball downfield?
That's not how drafting typically works, that's how a fan focuses on the season at hand only.
That's not how drafting typically works, that's how a fan focuses on the season at hand only.
I've been able to talk myself into a WR at six if the best QB options are gone and the price to trade up is too high, but I think it's only acceptable if the team has a long-term plan for how this WR is going to be part of an offense wins divisions and competes for superbowls.
-Getting a WR because you're hoping it will help turn Jones into a player he has never been (a top-10 or even above average passer) - bad
-Getting a WR because Daboll feels it's his best chance to win in 2024 - bad
-Getting a WR because you believe Lock/Jones/DeVito can be an effective caretaker until you acquire a FA QB or rookie in 2025, or you have a trade locked and loaded for Hooker, or you have a plan to grab a QB prospect on day 2 or 3 that you love - fine.
It might not be optimal for 2024, but this season is looking like another difficult road to success, and it could create more top 10 draft picks for 2025.
It might not be optimal for 2024, but this season is looking like another difficult road to success, and it could create more top 10 draft picks for 2025.
Just your opinion - do you think Daboll survives if this season produces a top 10 draft pick?
Quote:
unfortunately, the circumstances are rarely optimal and at #6 it appears to be the case again, unless their QB is there. Asshats already reporting Davoli wants Nabers (to increase the chances of winning rather than starting from scratch with a rookie QB) and their QB target(s) being gone is probably higher than 50/50. I think it's likely a WR at #6.
It might not be optimal for 2024, but this season is looking like another difficult road to success, and it could create more top 10 draft picks for 2025.
Just your opinion - do you think Daboll survives if this season produces a top 10 draft pick?
To me it depends on why we had a Top 10 draft pick. If we ended up that way because we were developing the QB of the future after having Drew Lock play the Kurt Warner role I do think he stays. If we have a Top 10 draft pick because he tried to do more of the same that failed previously I think he is fired.
The problem is the roster still needs a ton of work, and the demonstrated improvement thus far isn't very good or promising.
totally agree with you..well said!!
Quote:
I just watched Joe Klatt's top 50 players in the draft. He's got McCarthy at 14, but after listening to what he said (very similar to Sy), I'm not sure I would be able to pass on him.
This is what I’ve been asking. McCarthy. This is the QB that will be on the board at 6. He has an 84 grade. There are absolutely zero question marks about this kid off the field.
And yes I do believe he will be there as I do not believe that the Cards nor Chargers will be willing to move down to 11 or later.
Will the Giants pass on JJ McCarthy at 6?
The problem is the roster still needs a ton of work, and the demonstrated improvement thus far isn't very good or promising.
I agree. If Mara wants to go by the fans though, status quo at QB will get ugly fast imo.
I want a qb but you're a little over the top with the hyperbole. You're going to watch the entire season regardless of who is playing qb and you'll still be posting on BBI
If McCarthy was so special, Harbaugh would sever ties with Herbert, draft McCarthy at #5, and reset with the rookie QB contract.
Yes, of course it is, but until Schoen demonstrates alot less "green" decision making, NYG will continue to struggle and make suspect decisions.
Totally broken.
If Jones is healthy, he will get every chance to return. Schoen will acquire a QB in this draft because it his job to protect the long term interests of the team, the HC is more short term. This is how it is supposed to work.
I think Jones body will betray him in 2024, but it might not. Jones might play VERY well in 2024, and some fans will be unhappy. So weird.
DISCLOSURE
I am not part of a cult for a differing opinion, I would draft McCarthy at 6 over a WR.
What I am really curious about is what do they do in the scenario that 4 QBs go ahead of them, and Arizona or San Diego takes Nabers as the first WR off the board?
Do they look to trade back, or do they like either Harrison Jr or Odunze enough to stick with drafting a WR at 6? As someone pointed out in a thread a few days ago, Schoen does seem to focus more on specific players rather than specific positions when drafting so I wonder how this will play out if their 3 guys are all taken ahead of them.
What I am really curious about is what do they do in the scenario that 4 QBs go ahead of them, and Arizona or San Diego takes Nabers as the first WR off the board?
Do they look to trade back, or do they like either Harrison Jr or Odunze enough to stick with drafting a WR at 6? As someone pointed out in a thread a few days ago, Schoen does seem to focus more on specific players rather than specific positions when drafting so I wonder how this will play out if their 3 guys are all taken ahead of them.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
Quote:
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
I doubt Raanan knows or anyone. I trust Schoen is tight lipped on this. The only reason the Burns leak get out was someone connected to the agency side. The Giants appear to be very secretive about this draft process.
However, if true - NYG will very likely have the opportunity to draft McCarthy at 6.
If Jones is healthy, he will get every chance to return. Schoen will acquire a QB in this draft because it his job to protect the long term interests of the team, the HC is more short term. This is how it is supposed to work.
I think Jones body will betray him in 2024, but it might not. Jones might play VERY well in 2024, and some fans will be unhappy. So weird.
DISCLOSURE
I am not part of a cult for a differing opinion, I would draft McCarthy at 6 over a WR.
Jones has already been given every chance.. he was miserable in 2023. You can't have a starting QB who has horrid play within possible outcomes.
'18 TY/Pts: 296/16.8 124 rypg
'19 330/19.6 128 rypg
'20 396/31.3 107 rypg SD: 127c/1535/12.1/8TD
'21 381/28.4 130 rypg SD: 103c/1225/11.9/10
JA '19 16 games 271/461 58.8 3089 6.7/6.7 20/9 109c/510y/4.7
JA '20 16g 396/572 69.2 4544 7.9/8.5 37/10 102/421y/4.1
DJ '22 16 games 317/471 67.8 3205 6.8/6.9 15/5 120c/708y/5.8
Giants offense:
2022: 338/21.5pts 148 rypg
2023 289/15.6 pts 110 rypg
Unfortunately the plan didn't pan out with last seasons skill player additions and expected OL improvement (it got a lot worse) and now the Giants added QB (I think) to the WR need.
Quote:
In comment 16461904 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
I doubt Raanan knows or anyone. I trust Schoen is tight lipped on this. The only reason the Burns leak get out was someone connected to the agency side. The Giants appear to be very secretive about this draft process.
However, if true - NYG will very likely have the opportunity to draft McCarthy at 6.
Also, RV gave literally the exact opposite word. I don't think any of these guys know anything. I think they're all talking to people from other teams who are making guesses just like the rest of us.
Quote:
In comment 16461904 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
I doubt Raanan knows or anyone. I trust Schoen is tight lipped on this. The only reason the Burns leak get out was someone connected to the agency side. The Giants appear to be very secretive about this draft process.
However, if true - NYG will very likely have the opportunity to draft McCarthy at 6.
I don't think any of these guys have a real clue tbh, but I believe Raanan is more plugged for NYG than any of these other pundits. Connor Hughes is also closer to the pulse and reported Giants liking JJM. Seems like there is a concerted effort to muddle our preferences which is nice. All the sudden we are hearing reports that we don't like JJM, meanwhile there has been a consistent buzz about us liking him. Maybe they are basically hoping for Nabers or JJM at 6, knowing Maye won't make it there. One of the two should be there at 6 with CW, JD, Maye, MHJ, then Nabers or JJM as the 5th off the board which means we will very likely get one of them at 6 barring some kind of big surprise.
Who has reported that we actually don't like JJM? I've only heard that from posters here.
Quote:
All the sudden we are hearing reports that we don't like JJM,
Who has reported that we actually don't like JJM? I've only heard that from posters here.
Cowherd did too, no? And a reported asshat connection here too? Its smelling like disinformation, I think Schoen is hoping for JJM at 6 while being ok with Nabers at 6 too. It's really feeling like it will be one of those two at 6.
Quote:
In comment 16461926 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
In comment 16461904 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
I doubt Raanan knows or anyone. I trust Schoen is tight lipped on this. The only reason the Burns leak get out was someone connected to the agency side. The Giants appear to be very secretive about this draft process.
However, if true - NYG will very likely have the opportunity to draft McCarthy at 6.
Also, RV gave literally the exact opposite word. I don't think any of these guys know anything. I think they're all talking to people from other teams who are making guesses just like the rest of us.
I think Schoen might be putting out smoke now and it's interesting to see these recent asshat and pundit reports about us not liking JJM. It honestly makes me think Schoen is hoping he makes it to pick 6 and if he doesn't then they go with Daboll's boy Nabers. We will get 1 of the two in all likelihood.
Quote:
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
This is ridiculous -- the scouts just came in this week to set up the board
Quote:
In comment 16461904 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
It seems like the Giants are dialed in on 3 guys: Maye, McCarthy, and Nabers.
According to Raanan's podcast last night, the Giants actually have Daniels 1st, followed by McCarthy, and have cooled off on Maye for the same reasons other teams are cooling on him (acccuracy, footwork).
Of course that is only one beat writer's take.
This is ridiculous -- the scouts just came in this week to set up the board
All of this is 100% speculation with some likely intentional smokey misinformation sprinkled in as well.
Quote:
In comment 16461967 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
All the sudden we are hearing reports that we don't like JJM,
Who has reported that we actually don't like JJM? I've only heard that from posters here.
Cowherd did too, no? And a reported asshat connection here too? Its smelling like disinformation, I think Schoen is hoping for JJM at 6 while being ok with Nabers at 6 too. It's really feeling like it will be one of those two at 6.
I thought Cowherd said the Giants were hoping Daniels or Maye fell to them. not necessarily that they didn't like McCarthy. In fact, I found the omission to be interesting.
There was an actual asshat here who said the Giants weren't high on JJM?
The "insider" chatter tends to come from agents, IMO, not teams/players/execs. To that end, there's some buzz-curation in that gossip (although that's a tricky maneuver for an agent, because you don't want to create a "Will Levis has top-5 momentum" narrative that quickly becomes "why has the NFL gone cold on Will Levis after hyping him as a top-5 pick?").
No doubt there are some kernels of sincere truth contained within the chatter, but I think you have to do your homework as to which beats (or league insiders) have good relationships with certain agents, and you'd base that on what scoops they've broken in the past (and who the agent for the player involved was).
Raanan's info might be reliable if his relationship(s) with the agents for those players is strong. For example, if any of those prospects are represented by the same agency as Wink Martindale, Jordan is probably pretty plugged in. If it's the same agency as Mike Kafka, Jordan is probably throwing shit against the wall and hoping for clicks.
On the other hand, this is the time of year that the team-friendly beats (Vacchiano and Schwartz most prominently come to mind, IMO) might be used for countering the leaks coming out on the agent side, so when Ralph or Schwartz (or Mike G) come out on the opposite side of a rumor from one of the more gossipy beats, it might actually confirm that the rumor the beat stumbled onto is legitimate enough to merit a counter smokescreen from the team.
If the end result is a feeling of "nobody knows what the team has planned!" then everything is working as intended.
Quote:
In comment 16461970 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
In comment 16461967 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
All the sudden we are hearing reports that we don't like JJM,
Who has reported that we actually don't like JJM? I've only heard that from posters here.
Cowherd did too, no? And a reported asshat connection here too? Its smelling like disinformation, I think Schoen is hoping for JJM at 6 while being ok with Nabers at 6 too. It's really feeling like it will be one of those two at 6.
I thought Cowherd said the Giants were hoping Daniels or Maye fell to them. not necessarily that they didn't like McCarthy. In fact, I found the omission to be interesting.
There was an actual asshat here who said the Giants weren't high on JJM?
Yes, I will find the post for you. Here you go:
In comment 16460749 Woodstock said:
Quote:
I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
Quote:
Also, RV gave literally the exact opposite word. I don't think any of these guys know anything. I think they're all talking to people from other teams who are making guesses just like the rest of us.
The "insider" chatter tends to come from agents, IMO, not teams/players/execs. To that end, there's some buzz-curation in that gossip (although that's a tricky maneuver for an agent, because you don't want to create a "Will Levis has top-5 momentum" narrative that quickly becomes "why has the NFL gone cold on Will Levis after hyping him as a top-5 pick?").
No doubt there are some kernels of sincere truth contained within the chatter, but I think you have to do your homework as to which beats (or league insiders) have good relationships with certain agents, and you'd base that on what scoops they've broken in the past (and who the agent for the player involved was).
Raanan's info might be reliable if his relationship(s) with the agents for those players is strong. For example, if any of those prospects are represented by the same agency as Wink Martindale, Jordan is probably pretty plugged in. If it's the same agency as Mike Kafka, Jordan is probably throwing shit against the wall and hoping for clicks.
On the other hand, this is the time of year that the team-friendly beats (Vacchiano and Schwartz most prominently come to mind, IMO) might be used for countering the leaks coming out on the agent side, so when Ralph or Schwartz (or Mike G) come out on the opposite side of a rumor from one of the more gossipy beats, it might actually confirm that the rumor the beat stumbled onto is legitimate enough to merit a counter smokescreen from the team.
If the end result is a feeling of "nobody knows what the team has planned!" then everything is working as intended.
Yes I agree, which leads me to have a hunch our plan is to stay at 6 and draft JJM or Nabers. In all likelihood one of those two will be there at 6 with CW, JD, Maye, MHJ going followed by one of JJM/Nabers which would leave one of them at 6.
"QB hell" seems like a term so subjective that it's bound to be problematic in discussions like this, so for the sake of clarity, how would you define "QB hell"?
Former US Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart said this about porn, "I know it when I see it..."
I feel similarly about QB Hell. You know it when you see it. ;)
Seriously, I would generally frame it this way:
If you don't think the current QBs on your roster can make the team a perennial playoff/SB contender, and finding a possible solution is still in doubt, you are in QB Hell.
Quote:
If McCarthy was so special, Harbaugh would sever ties with Herbert, draft McCarthy at #5, and reset with the rookie QB contract.
I assume that you are joking here...
I was being mostly tongue in cheek...
I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
Thanks. Schoen/Daboll are going to be truly effed if they go this route, the offense looks bad and one of JJM, Penix, or Nix hits.
But the point is, I think the league has gotten smarter about this in general. We used to always have a very good idea. Right now so much feels like guesses. There is speculation but nothing more than that from Washington on up. The league is wizening up --you don't have guys with bourbon in hand yapping away to their buddies about what they're going to do. 99% of what you hear is removed from the source speculation and connecting the dots.
Quote:
I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
Thanks. Schoen/Daboll are going to be truly effed if they go this route, the offense looks bad and one of JJM, Penix, or Nix hits.
I think Schoen is leaking a bunch of smoke right now. The vibe I get is price is too high to get to 3 and they've decided to stand pat at 6 with hopes of Nabers or JJM.
Don't you think any leaks this late are more than likely smoke or pure speculation? I don't see Schoen letting that happen this late in the game.
Raanan really doesn't seem nearly as plugged in.
Raanan really doesn't seem nearly as plugged in.
Hughes is the one that said we really like JJM and then supposedly Schoen was mad about that. At this point, I think Gatorade is right and RV would mote likely be leaking smoke for the NYG than saying anything true.
Vacchiano - has implied the Giants are very interested in trading up for Maye if available
Duggan - receiver
Mike G - unsure other than when he gave the Giants high odds of taking a QB a month back.