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Lets talk #6 and Defense

fish3321 : 4/8/2024 8:09 pm
Was hoping to have a little discussion about Defense and #6 pick. Every pundit is talking about QB/WR, and trade up, Its kind a been beat to death at this point.

With all the QB/WR talk we are uniquely positioned to grab the #1 Defensive player on our board at #6. Yes, I'm aware it's a bit of a BPA approach.

But we cannot be blind to defense. Look back at 2021. Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson and Trey Lance go 1,2,3. Patrick Surtain and Micah Parsons go a few picks later... Who would you rather have now? (Some excellent WR went as well).

Terrion Arnold, Byron Murphy, Jared Verse or Quinton Mitchell, Chop Robinson or my personal favorite Dallas Turner. CB is still a need on this team and of course "you cant have enough pass rushers."

Go put on some Dallas Turner highlights on YouTube. You'll see what I'm seeing.

I'm not saying don't draft a WR at 6, but the Giants have spent premium picks on Barkley and OBJ at skill positions, with minimal or worse record.

Remember our superbowl runs with Strahan, Osi, Tuck and then we DRAFTED KIWI. I hope the front office has not ruled out a Pass Rusher at 6 just because we have Burns now. Good teams build on their strengths.

Dallas Turner is my pick at 6 if Nabers and MHJ are gone.


Who is atop your Defensive big board at #6 or in a slight trade down? Let's discuss defense!






not tonight  
CMicks3110 : 4/8/2024 8:13 pm : link
lets do it another time
I like Verse better than Turner  
Greg from LI : 4/8/2024 8:15 pm : link
.
Verse  
BigBlueBuff : 4/8/2024 8:25 pm : link
would be my pick for a defensive player. He'd be the Justin Tuck added to the two ends we already have.
I honestly think our defense is solid  
eric2425ny : 4/8/2024 8:35 pm : link
Not saying we can’t use an exceptional playmaker, but unless we are building a 1980’s style roster there is a desperate need to add firepower to an offense that can barely crack 20 points a game.

This is the first draft where I would have no issues taking offense with 4 or 5 of our 6 picks. It’s that bad.
RE: I honestly think our defense is solid  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/8/2024 8:42 pm : link
In comment 16461432 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
Not saying we can’t use an exceptional playmaker, but unless we are building a 1980’s style roster there is a desperate need to add firepower to an offense that can barely crack 20 points a game.

This is the first draft where I would have no issues taking offense with 4 or 5 of our 6 picks. It’s that bad.


20???

Try 15, and that includes the defensive and special teams TDs we scored.
I think Latu is going to be phenomenal if healthy  
Cyrus the Great : 4/8/2024 8:43 pm : link
The injuries are a huge risk with him though. That being said, I think his potential is through the roof and I would be thrilled if he somehow makes his way to East Rutherford.
Would be the biggest draft surprise in recent NYG history  
gameday555 : 4/8/2024 9:56 pm : link
If they went defense at 6, in my eyes. But, I'll play along and talk as if we traded down with the vikings or someone in that range. I still don't see EDGE. Brian Burns and KT under contract for several years...a new EDGE isn't going to see the field enough, even in a rotation.

The giants looked at CB several times in FA but got priced out. Who is our boundary CB opposite Banks? That's where I'd look in this longshot hypothetical. In their minds they'd now have two top flight CBs, an excellent EDGE and an emerging one, a star DT and an underrated LB corps.

Longshot within the longshot? Byron Murphy. KT, Murphy, Lawrence, Burns is one hell of a D line, and a balanced one unlike an EDGE scenario.
I am fine with D in the first  
AROCK1000 : 4/8/2024 10:09 pm : link
Provided we trade back and get another 1st or 2nd
You’re definitely speaking my language  
djm : 4/8/2024 10:17 pm : link
That said I won’t bitch if they take the wr or qb. But I’ve been beating the war drums about the defense for a long time. It still needs to be a big priority and remain one forever.
I wouldn't be surprised if Edge Rusher is on the table  
Big_Pete : 4/8/2024 10:21 pm : link
Schoen has demonstrated ER is a position that he values and will invest resources.

Look at the Bills recent history as an example:

2020 (no first round pick)
2nd Round A.J. Epenesa, DE, Iowa

2021
1st round Defensive end Greg Rousseau
2nd round Defensive end Boogie Basham

Azeez Ojulari and Boogie Basham are not likely long term answers.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants took an ER in the first two rounds.

The guy I am keeping an eye on is Jared Verse.

Verse has similar athletic toolset to Kayvon Thibodeaux (but has more power). He is also closer to the type of Edge Rushers the Bills drafted.

We just traded for Burns  
Saquon'sQuadz : 4/8/2024 10:23 pm : link
That’s why I don’t see them going ER at 6
RE: We just traded for Burns  
Big_Pete : 4/8/2024 10:40 pm : link
In comment 16461554 Saquon'sQuadz said:
Quote:
That’s why I don’t see them going ER at 6


I can understand your position.

my take on Schoen is that he looks at premium positions and longer term than just the upcoming year.

Take the Bills in 2021 foe example. Their roster had Mario Addison, Jerry Hughes, Efe Obada and drafted A.J Epenessa with their top pick the previous year, yet they drafted Rosseau and Basham with their top 2 picks.

Also note in 2019 they drafted DT Ed Oliver.

That is a ton of premium draft capital invested in the DL in three drafts.

I could easily see Schoen going with a DL in the first couple of rounds as well, particularly if they want a disruptive style of DT akin to Ed Oliver or Jeffrey Simmons (Titans).
They traded for Burns  
Ned In Atlanta : 4/8/2024 11:30 pm : link
Have a top 2 DT, signed a stud LB last offseason, and spent a first on a CB. The team lost its best offensive player, the qb isn't good and we have a bunch of #2 WRs. Either take the qb or stud WR. It's not that complicated
It’s pretty likely that a defensive player  
Rudy5757 : 4/8/2024 11:49 pm : link
Doesn’t get drafted in the top 10. Look at FA and the draft visits, the Giants are not drafting a defensive player at 6. Only way we draft a defensive player in the 1st is with a trade down. I’m pretty confident in that.
If we were going Def I would hope we would trade down…  
Amtoft : 4/9/2024 12:10 am : link
Then Quinton Mitchell in the first, trade up for DT Newton, DT Orhorhoro in the 3rd, and Dadrion to play nickel Safety.
I would  
Lines of Scrimmage : 4/9/2024 7:53 am : link
take a defensive player in a trade down if it is BPA. I like this Murphy player but might be bit high depending where they dropped down to. He has versatility to play along the front.

Good things happen with the Giants when they have both a very good OL and front 7. Used to be the foundation of franchise.

What is the fixation with position?  
Shecky : 4/9/2024 8:15 am : link
I honestly don't care if they draft a punter in the first round. Just get the best player that is available when you pick at this point. This team has very little talent, and a complete lack of depth. Just acquire as many great players as you can.

Now was punter an exageation, of course. Is positional value importnt, yes. But...

I would take a star player at a lower value position, than a dud or mediocre QB or WR. The draft is not Free Agency, where they are known players. Heck, GOlliday and other signings taught us chasing position in FA is horrible idea too.

My point? I trust the scouts and Front Office to judge the talent. And take the best player, regardless if it is a WR, QB, or Defense.
I'm thinking if the go defense  
bc4life : 4/9/2024 8:19 am : link
Trade back and get extra picks, there will still be value available. Defense is on the right track, but there are still holes.
RE: not tonight  
barens : 4/9/2024 8:21 am : link
In comment 16461411 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
lets do it another time


I laughed.
RE: RE: I honestly think our defense is solid  
barens : 4/9/2024 8:23 am : link
In comment 16461442 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16461432 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


Not saying we can’t use an exceptional playmaker, but unless we are building a 1980’s style roster there is a desperate need to add firepower to an offense that can barely crack 20 points a game.

This is the first draft where I would have no issues taking offense with 4 or 5 of our 6 picks. It’s that bad.



20???

Try 15, and that includes the defensive and special teams TDs we scored.


And that was with Saquan.
When you consider the talent available  
JonC : 4/9/2024 8:53 am : link
where NYG is in terms of needs, and how Schoen tends to draft, I think you can deduce defense is rather unlikely at #6.

You also can deduce Edge early is unlikely too, unless they're starting to plan ahead with regards to not paying KT a second contract.

You can never have enough pass rushers until each one of them clocks in at $20M AAV.
It sort of feels like  
UberAlias : 4/9/2024 8:59 am : link
The plan all along has been to have #6 and a 2nd rounder earmarked for QB/WR in some manner.
I have no problem going edge in the first  
BigBlueShock : 4/9/2024 9:01 am : link
But this comment from the OP is a bit disingenuous:
“I'm not saying don't draft a WR at 6, but the Giants have spent premium picks on Barkley and OBJ at skill positions, with minimal or worse record”.

They’ve also picked OL and Edge with premium picks, and much more recently than your examples, with minimal or worse record. I guess they should avoid those positions as well? Why does the team results only apply to WRs and not OL or Edge?
They had a much better team when they drafted Kiwi  
BrianLeonard23 : 4/9/2024 10:20 am : link
Almost 20 years ago. They also had a QB.

Stop reaching back in the archives like this. We need a fucking quarterback.
The only defensive player I could see them considering  
Mike in NJ : 4/9/2024 10:30 am : link
would be Q Mitchell. I have seen comps between him and Sauce Gardner, and it has been widely reported that Schoen wanted Sauce back in 2022.

CB also still looks to be a big need.
The elite talent is on O in this draft and is the area with the most  
BLUATHRT : 4/9/2024 10:47 am : link
needs on this team. I would give it a 0.0 shot they take a defensive player if they stay at 6.
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