OFFENSE
Quarterback: Daniel Jones
Running back: Devin Singletary
Wide receiver: First-round pick, Darius Slayton, Wan’Dale Robinson
Tight end: Daniel Bellinger
Offensive line: LT Andrew Thomas, LG Jon Runyan, C John Michael Schmitz, RG Jermaine Eluemunor, RT Evan Neal
DEFENSE
Defensive line: Dexter Lawrence, Rakeem Nunez-Roches, Jordon Riley
Outside linebacker: Brian Burns, Kayvon Thibodeaux
Inside linebacker: Bobby Okereke, Micah McFadden
Cornerback: Deonte Banks, Day 2 draft pick, Cor’Dale Flott
Safety: Jason Pinnock, veteran free agent
SPECIAL TEAM
Special teams: K Graham Gano, P Jamie Gillan, LS Casey Kreiter
Dont think he has to throw for 30. I think he needs a combined 30. 25 passing and 5 rushing is still a marked improvement.
Bowen plays a lot of 3rd safety so they need one unless they are really high on Mills or something.
Micah Hyde would make sense and probably not too expensive.
Jayron Kearse is more of a box safety but he always seemed to play well vs NYG and is a good tackler.
Eddie Jackson may be most boom/bust but hasnt been the best tackler historically. same with Diggs.
Justin Simmons would be a home run but he supposedly wants to play for a contender.
If I was betting on one i'd bet on Hyde.
(1) Will Daniel Jones be ready to start the season and how long will he last?
(2) What do the Giants have in Daniel Bellinger. His Year 2 regression was not a good look.
(3) Is Evan Neal's career salvageable at RT? At RG? Anywhere?
(4) Rakeem Nunez-Roches is a nice player as a rotation guy. Is he a full-on starter?
(5) Jordon Riley showed some nice things for a late draft choice, but does he take the next step up in Year 2.
(6) Does Micah McFadden continue in an upward path or does he level out in Year 3 into a mediocre LBer?
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A high paid QB with a blue chip WR. Go throw 30 TD's Daniel.
thats a bottom 3 roster in the NFL
Schoen is paying Jones $40M AAV. He traded for Brian Burns. He spent the 4th highest of any team in free agency. He doesn't get the roster excuse. He'd be doubling down on Jones again.
Coming off the playoff win in Minnesota.....
Needed to make up ground vs the Cowboys and Eagles!
The OL had to improve......it regressed and killed any hope.
This year...looks bleak!
But an improved OL.....will improve the QB and RB(net)....and the WR is better.
I think the roster on defense IS better.....getting on new page....will have a learning curve.
worse on paper?
minimum salary street FA's started a ton of games for the 2022 team especially on defense - jaylon smith, fabian moureau, nick williams, jarrad davis, jihad ward, henry mondeaux, justin ellis. remember preseason super star austin calitro?
the 2022 defense was held together with duct tape and glue.
things were only slightly better with the offense starting David Sills for the first 5 weeks and Marcus Johnson for 7.
The offensive line and front 7 are much improved, as well as the weapons in the pass game (assuming they add Nabers/Odunze).
Also, I hope they add a DL at some point in the first 3 or 4 rounds. This current group lacks depth. Do people think Riley has the goods?
They told Deloach from FSU they wanted him to play a hybrid 3rd safety when they met with him, so they’d likely draft a safety if the opportunity presented itself
At least we know 2 things that are different than the past regime
-there is a well thought-out plan A B and C....
-we have no idea what the plans are
Yes sir. Especially on offense. I feel like we are headed back to 1995 when the defense was solid and the offense was dreadful.
2 more weeks we'll find out.
The excuse will be it takes a year to fully recover from an ACL
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Starting year 3 and it looks worse on paper than when he took over and had 2 top 10 picks.
worse on paper?
minimum salary street FA's started a ton of games for the 2022 team especially on defense - jaylon smith, fabian moureau, nick williams, jarrad davis, jihad ward, henry mondeaux, justin ellis. remember preseason super star austin calitro?
the 2022 defense was held together with duct tape and glue.
things were only slightly better with the offense starting David Sills for the first 5 weeks and Marcus Johnson for 7.
This was the starting lineup in 2022
QB - DJ same as 2022
WR - Toney, Golladay, Robinson - Better than 2024
RT - Neal - better than 2024, high expectations
RG - Glowinski - Even
C - Feliciano - Even
LG - Lemieux - Worse
LT - Thomas - Same
RB - Barkley - better than 2024
TE - Bellinger - Same
On D
NT - Dex - Probably worse than 2024 since he wasnt quite the player he became in 2022.
DT - Williams - Better than 2024
Edge - Thibs - the same
Edge - Ojulari - Worse
LB - Martinez - worse
LB - Crowder - Same
CB - jackson, Robinson, Holmes - Better than 2024
Safety - Love, McKinney - better than 2024
To me yes, they were better on paper in 2022.
starting lineup headed into 2022 - ( New Window )
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Yes sir. Especially on offense. I feel like we are headed back to 1995 when the defense was solid and the offense was dreadful.
Just like that era, the first step to recovery is moving on from the duke qb
Giants are going to run more double high rather than single high safety packages. Can Pinnock handle that?
This is BS. The roster Schoen took over from Gettleman was a couple of notches, if not more, below the worst roster in the league. This looks like an all star team in comparison.
Even of we go 7-6 against the rest of the schedule that means best case 7 wins.
Another top 10 pick in the making.
The offensive line and front 7 are much improved, as well as the weapons in the pass game (assuming they add Nabers/Odunze).
Also, I hope they add a DL at some point in the first 3 or 4 rounds. This current group lacks depth. Do people think Riley has the goods?
It's a much better roster than 2022.
Crowder wasn't even a backup level player.
Are you guys just waking up to who is on this roster?
Or is this simply a reaction to Jones?
BTW, this roster is much improved over 2022. It's not close.
Team is better than 2022. Better OL and front 7. Better WRs even if we don't draft one. Corners are younger and better if you think Banks is the goods.
RB/Safety is the only position that is worse.
TE 82 D.Bellinger
LT 78 A.Thomas
LG 68 B.Bredeson
C 76 J.Feliciano
RG 64 M.Glowinski
RT 73 E.Neal
WR 13 D.Sills
WR 19 K.Golladay
QB 8 D.Jones
FB 85 C.Myarick
RB 26 S.Barkley
DL 99 L.Williams
DL 97 D.Lawrence
DE 93 N.Williams
OLB 53 O.Ximines
OLB 55 J.Ward
ILB 48 T.Crowder
ILB 59 A.Calitro
CB 33 A.Robinson
CB 22 A.Jackson
S 20 J.Love
S 29 X.McKinney
No. That's not what the Titans ran.
Are you guys just waking up to who is on this roster?
Or is this simply a reaction to Jones?
BTW, this roster is much improved over 2022. It's not close.
Jones' name is mud for a lot of posters here.
To speak for myself, I'm a little skeptical of having Riley, Lawrence, and Davidson as the three defensive linemen. All three are NT types and I would have thought the Giants would know that placing a NT as a defensive end isn't a smart move . I'd probably aim to draft a 3-Tech on Day 2 of this draft.
I predict a lot of ‘he’s still working through his rehab’ during camp.
Regardless, 3-technique is a glaring omission and I suspect they are still going to address it if they can.
Right now, we have the best interior DL in the game, Lawrence, a solid run player in Nunez-Roches, and two youngsters who have flashed.
Timmy Horne has also played in 21 games with five starts since entering the league. I suspect this is Ryder Anderson's last chance, but I would not discount him as a role player.
Our DL back-ups in 2022 were atrocious.
WR - Toney, Golladay, Robinson - Better than 2024
Better than 2024? Two of the guys listed above are basically out of the NFL!
Are you guys just waking up to who is on this roster?
Or is this simply a reaction to Jones?
BTW, this roster is much improved over 2022. It's not close.
Burns>> every other ER on the 2022 team and it’s not close.
Are you guys just waking up to who is on this roster?
Or is this simply a reaction to Jones?
BTW, this roster is much improved over 2022. It's not close.
For some here, 2022 is a high water mark in Giants history. That was a terrible team carried by a great coaching job all around with getting the ceiling of their limited qb. It was punctuated by a favorable playoff matchup with a cupcake defense.
We’ve gotten much better at several key spots and really only took a step back at safety and rb. Ol should be better, front 7 is better while missing a 3 tech but we’ve upgrade lb and edge., wr is better but still missing a number 1. Depending on Waller TE looks better but I like the blocking depth we brought in. CB has more higher end potential from their 1 this year but cb2 is a concern. remember we had adoree and then scrubs at the other spots in 22 so that is an upgrade.
QB is still the biggest issue overall.
we got 4 top 100 picks. we need to hit on all 4 if we dont go QB.
Defense. Williams is a loss (though he had a bad year in 2022 because of injuries), but the back-ups are way better. The edge and inside linebackers are way better. Banks is a way better #1 corner than Jackson. The other corners on this roster are actually better than the 2022 corners (Giants were signing guys off the street).
The one spot on defense that has noticeably declined is safety.
Most lethal what?
Totally different NFL schedule landscape and composition and the way our coaching staff has had to evolve as well. Just because coaches get more talent, doesn't mean they use it well all the time. People always skew too positive off an earlier basis of "overachieving".
That being said -
I don't like the Giants proposed schedule at all - they are in for a lot of physical matchups against tough defenses in the AFC side - AFC North especially (Steelers, Browns, Bengals, Ravens).
Once teams prevented him from running (2nd half of 22 and 23) he was awful
Unless our schedule is 17 games against Washington, you should expect Jones to continue to be awful
You know he was 5th in rushing for QBs in 2022, right? Fields ran for 400 more yards than Jones, and Hurts had more yards and double the number of TDs. So, no, Daniel Jones has never been the most lethal anything. And he was a limited, timid, frightened passer. And one defenses learned to defend him, he became absolutely nothing. This is no way to run a 5 billion dollar sports franchise.
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In comment 16461894 Rudy5757 said:
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Starting year 3 and it looks worse on paper than when he took over and had 2 top 10 picks.
worse on paper?
minimum salary street FA's started a ton of games for the 2022 team especially on defense - jaylon smith, fabian moureau, nick williams, jarrad davis, jihad ward, henry mondeaux, justin ellis. remember preseason super star austin calitro?
the 2022 defense was held together with duct tape and glue.
things were only slightly better with the offense starting David Sills for the first 5 weeks and Marcus Johnson for 7.
This was the starting lineup in 2022
QB - DJ same as 2022
WR - Toney, Golladay, Robinson - Better than 2024
RT - Neal - better than 2024, high expectations
RG - Glowinski - Even
C - Feliciano - Even
LG - Lemieux - Worse
LT - Thomas - Same
RB - Barkley - better than 2024
TE - Bellinger - Same
On D
NT - Dex - Probably worse than 2024 since he wasnt quite the player he became in 2022.
DT - Williams - Better than 2024
Edge - Thibs - the same
Edge - Ojulari - Worse
LB - Martinez - worse
LB - Crowder - Same
CB - jackson, Robinson, Holmes - Better than 2024
Safety - Love, McKinney - better than 2024
To me yes, they were better on paper in 2022. starting lineup headed into 2022 - ( New Window )
Obviously we have the advantage of having seen the 2022 team play, however this take seems insane. wide reciever room is much better. OL is much better. Only RB on offense is worse. On defense DL is probably a little worse, Edge much better, LB much better, CB likely better, safety worse. Really only SB, Leo, and X stand out as guys I would take as obvious improvements. On the other hand 6 players on offense and 4 on defense seem like improvements to me.
Totally different NFL schedule landscape and composition and the way our coaching staff has had to evolve as well. Just because coaches get more talent, doesn't mean they use it well all the time. People always skew too positive off an earlier basis of "overachieving".
That being said -
I don't like the Giants proposed schedule at all - they are in for a lot of physical matchups against tough defenses in the AFC side - AFC North especially (Steelers, Browns, Bengals, Ravens).
Why is it wrong to compare Burns to Ximines? Or Okereke to Crowder?
Giants are going to run more double high rather than single high safety packages. Can Pinnock handle that?
This is one of my biggest concerns. Sure, Pinnock is super athletic, but does he know the nuances of the position yet? Two years ago, he was strictly a DB. How much did McKinney help Pinnock on the back end?
Ha ha
If they go the WR route with pick 1, I think they can be a competitive team with a healthy Jones and much improved OL. Jones being healthy is debatable. Let's see what happens in the draft.
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everyone calm the fuck down about Jones already. Let it play out. We just won 10 games in 2022 while he "only" accounted for 22 total Tds. HE was the most lethal running QB in the game that season. Just stop already with the daily hysterics. He will be the starting QB in 24. If the OL blocks, he will be effective. IF he isn't effective he's done here.
Most lethal what?
Sorry he was 54th that year. He led the NFL in something, maybe first down runs. Point is he's a very good rushing QB. But hey, that doesn't fir here.
AND there was a $72 million dollar WR riding the bench.
Well, he’s also be coming off a torn ACL. That, uh, should matter.
What a shitty outcome this would be. It's not Barley level stupid, but it's still pretty stupid.
2022 was pretty simple. When they ran the ball with both high carries and yards they won. When they didn't they lost. The two Minny games were outliers.
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In comment 16461946 djm said:
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everyone calm the fuck down about Jones already. Let it play out. We just won 10 games in 2022 while he "only" accounted for 22 total Tds. HE was the most lethal running QB in the game that season. Just stop already with the daily hysterics. He will be the starting QB in 24. If the OL blocks, he will be effective. IF he isn't effective he's done here.
Most lethal what?
Sorry he was 54th that year. He led the NFL in something, maybe first down runs. Point is he's a very good rushing QB. But hey, that doesn't fir here.
But he’s not a good throwing QB, that’s the most important part. He’s a higher paid Justin Fields with less running ability and multiple injuries
This is one of the reasons this offense will only score 10 points per game this year. This offense will be the worse in giants history this upcoming year.
2022 was pretty simple. When they ran the ball with both high carries and yards they won. When they didn't they lost. The two Minny games were outliers.
You do remember what the WR corps was, correct?
What a shitty outcome this would be. It's not Barley level stupid, but it's still pretty stupid.
Just because you think there are 5 or 6 QB's worth a Top 6 pick does not mean that the paid scouts believe there are that many. At best, it is a coinflip whether those 6 will hit based on the track record of QB's selected that high. Applying standard deviations 2 could bust or 4 could bust.
What if the scouts think that the only 2 that will be studs are Williams and Daniels (who are expected to go 1 and 2), that there is a 3rd (either Maye or McCarthy) who will end up in the same tier as Ryan Tannehill/Daniel Jones/etc. in that they could be a long term starter but more dependent on those around them, and the other 3 will be busts especially if drafted at 6?
Games are played on the field, not on paper or on computers.
This is a coaching staff that somehow got 3 wins out of DeVito at QB, with a trash OL!!!!!! Also, with Wink and his clowns on the staff.
Let's just see how this plays out, how the draft goes, etc. Have SOME faith - we have survived worse.
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no matter which side you fall on positive or negative.
Totally different NFL schedule landscape and composition and the way our coaching staff has had to evolve as well. Just because coaches get more talent, doesn't mean they use it well all the time. People always skew too positive off an earlier basis of "overachieving".
That being said -
I don't like the Giants proposed schedule at all - they are in for a lot of physical matchups against tough defenses in the AFC side - AFC North especially (Steelers, Browns, Bengals, Ravens).
Why is it wrong to compare Burns to Ximines? Or Okereke to Crowder?
You want to do it Eric - have at it.
I don't waste my time with it.
I thought the skill players were lacking. When they couldn't run the ball well it was a very challenging environment for Jones and would have been for just about every QB.
Because the opposing DCs figured out if he can't run he's really bad. The template was set, really in the back half of 22, but especially in the playoff game against PHI.
I thought the skill players were lacking. When they couldn't run the ball well it was a very challenging environment for Jones and would have been for just about every QB.
Agreed. On all counts. And I'm on record that I think they should consider a QB because of DJs injury history, but only if one falls or it's a palatable trade. I am also on record vehemently against moving vast amounts of future draft capital for a QB who will be playing on a roster mostly devoid of talent for the foreseeable future. If the Giants trade up for one of the big three, I will bet my bottom dollar the Giants are "considering" the 5th year option for a guy who's drafted into as bad a situation as Jones was and we'll be ready to trade the next generation of picks to move up for another "can't miss" QB. Build the lines. Build the team.
The team started 7-2 and he led the entire NFL in rushing at that point
They finished 2-5-1 and happened to draw the Vikings in the playoffs, the one team they could beat
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and most of his runs were huge first down runs that helped the giants win games. Can he play that way again in 24? I guess we will find out but to proclaim with absolute certainty that he can't is echo chamber horse shit. Why can't he do that again? Tell me why.
Because the opposing DCs figured out if he can't run he's really bad. The template was set, really in the back half of 22, but especially in the playoff game against PHI.
+1. Other teams won't be caught by surprise anymore.
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In comment 16462039 djm said:
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and most of his runs were huge first down runs that helped the giants win games. Can he play that way again in 24? I guess we will find out but to proclaim with absolute certainty that he can't is echo chamber horse shit. Why can't he do that again? Tell me why.
Because the opposing DCs figured out if he can't run he's really bad. The template was set, really in the back half of 22, but especially in the playoff game against PHI.
+1. Other teams won't be caught by surprise anymore.
Duggan in an article late last year chronicling the difference between 22 and 23 referred to the 2022 offense as "smoke and mirrors" and caught bad teams off guard.
BD tried to adjust and well we saw the results.
What a shitty outcome this would be. It's not Barley level stupid, but it's still pretty stupid.
2022
Richie James (undrafted or late round pick) -- 57 receptions--569 yards 2 TDs
Darius Slayton (5th round pick)-- 46 receptions 724 yards 2 TDs
Hodgins (PS player) 33 receptions 351 yards 4 TDs
PS--Richie James in 9 games last year for Mahomes had 10 catches. Maybe he should come home to resurrect his career.
Last year Waller in 11 games had 52 catches.
Thanks. Enjoy the sunshine.
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I hope Nabers is ok catching 50/700/4.
What a shitty outcome this would be. It's not Barley level stupid, but it's still pretty stupid.
2022
Richie James (undrafted or late round pick) -- 57 receptions--569 yards 2 TDs
Darius Slayton (5th round pick)-- 46 receptions 724 yards 2 TDs
Hodgins (PS player) 33 receptions 351 yards 4 TDs
PS--Richie James in 9 games last year for Mahomes had 10 catches. Maybe he should come home to resurrect his career.
Last year Waller in 11 games had 52 catches.
Thanks. Enjoy the sunshine.
Is there a point there?
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I think Jones had a good 2022 season considering the talent around him and Daboll did a good job utilizing it.
I thought the skill players were lacking. When they couldn't run the ball well it was a very challenging environment for Jones and would have been for just about every QB.
Agreed. On all counts. And I'm on record that I think they should consider a QB because of DJs injury history, but only if one falls or it's a palatable trade. I am also on record vehemently against moving vast amounts of future draft capital for a QB who will be playing on a roster mostly devoid of talent for the foreseeable future. If the Giants trade up for one of the big three, I will bet my bottom dollar the Giants are "considering" the 5th year option for a guy who's drafted into as bad a situation as Jones was and we'll be ready to trade the next generation of picks to move up for another "can't miss" QB. Build the lines. Build the team.
It is hard to "build the team" with incompetent QB play. It makes everything look worse than it actually is.
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In comment 16462066 Go Terps said:
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I hope Nabers is ok catching 50/700/4.
What a shitty outcome this would be. It's not Barley level stupid, but it's still pretty stupid.
2022
Richie James (undrafted or late round pick) -- 57 receptions--569 yards 2 TDs
Darius Slayton (5th round pick)-- 46 receptions 724 yards 2 TDs
Hodgins (PS player) 33 receptions 351 yards 4 TDs
PS--Richie James in 9 games last year for Mahomes had 10 catches. Maybe he should come home to resurrect his career.
Last year Waller in 11 games had 52 catches.
Thanks. Enjoy the sunshine.
Is there a point there?
You really need me to spell it out....Maybe you're underselling what a bunch of undrafted, 3rd 4th WRs did here under the same QB that you claim can't play.
Is it remotely possible that IF Slayton can go for 50 700 that a better WR with more talent could go for 70 1000?
Nah, impossible!
BD tried to adjust and well we saw the results.
Jones hasn’t been elite in the run game since the Seattle game in 2022
Definitely not a fan club
Giants are looking. Probably trying. Relax.
Giants are looking. Probably trying. Relax.
What if Jones shits the bed and gets injured in the process? Then what? We'll be paying him a fortune again next season.
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BD tried to adjust and well we saw the results.
Jones hasn’t been elite in the run game since the Seattle game in 2022
Not true. Not at all. Not sure why you'd suggest otherwise other than to suggest that Jones can't be a mobile threat anymore. He had 50 yards against DET and 71 yards rushing against Wash. Averaged 8+ per rush in that Vikings loss. lol he had 91 rushing yards against the Colts in the win and in game. 78 more rushing yards in the playoff win.
You guys hate 2022 but ignoring it won't make it go away.
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In comment 16462108 Scooter185 said:
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BD tried to adjust and well we saw the results.
Jones hasn’t been elite in the run game since the Seattle game in 2022
Not true. Not at all. Not sure why you'd suggest otherwise other than to suggest that Jones can't be a mobile threat anymore. He had 50 yards against DET and 71 yards rushing against Wash. Averaged 8+ per rush in that Vikings loss. lol he had 91 rushing yards against the Colts in the win and in game. 78 more rushing yards in the playoff win.
You guys hate 2022 but ignoring it won't make it go away.
I mean he has had ACL reconstruction in the interim.....
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one who the staff trusts to get the plays called and or changed at the LOS and a guy who carries himself like a pro, and a guy who won't be on the books (except for dead money) this time next year IF he shits the bed in 24, it's really not such a bad place to be. Giants OBVIOUSLY are looking to upgrade at QB so that should comfort all of you, especially the ones who think Daniel Jones causes petrification if eyes fall upon his gaze.
Giants are looking. Probably trying. Relax.
What if Jones shits the bed and gets injured in the process? Then what? We'll be paying him a fortune again next season.
Yep and they will be coming for your money. Better hide it. Quick!
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In comment 16462139 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16462108 Scooter185 said:
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BD tried to adjust and well we saw the results.
Jones hasn’t been elite in the run game since the Seattle game in 2022
Not true. Not at all. Not sure why you'd suggest otherwise other than to suggest that Jones can't be a mobile threat anymore. He had 50 yards against DET and 71 yards rushing against Wash. Averaged 8+ per rush in that Vikings loss. lol he had 91 rushing yards against the Colts in the win and in game. 78 more rushing yards in the playoff win.
You guys hate 2022 but ignoring it won't make it go away.
I mean he has had ACL reconstruction in the interim.....
Totally fair. Maybe he isn't the same mobile threat. But that doesn't change my point. He was a terrific rushing threat AFTER the Seattle game.
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In comment 16462093 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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I think Jones had a good 2022 season considering the talent around him and Daboll did a good job utilizing it.
I thought the skill players were lacking. When they couldn't run the ball well it was a very challenging environment for Jones and would have been for just about every QB.
Agreed. On all counts. And I'm on record that I think they should consider a QB because of DJs injury history, but only if one falls or it's a palatable trade. I am also on record vehemently against moving vast amounts of future draft capital for a QB who will be playing on a roster mostly devoid of talent for the foreseeable future. If the Giants trade up for one of the big three, I will bet my bottom dollar the Giants are "considering" the 5th year option for a guy who's drafted into as bad a situation as Jones was and we'll be ready to trade the next generation of picks to move up for another "can't miss" QB. Build the lines. Build the team.
It is hard to "build the team" with incompetent QB play. It makes everything look worse than it actually is.
I disagree to an extent. First, the entire offensive line was "incompetent" as have been the WR corps, most of the DL, all of the LBs, the TEs, etc. To blame this whole mess on Jones is a joke. A big, fat, joke. What's Hebert doing with the Chargers and that fucked up lineup? Where are they going? They can't even MAKE the playoffs....but hey, they got the fucking QB, right? Build the team.
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In comment 16462108 Scooter185 said:
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BD tried to adjust and well we saw the results.
Jones hasn’t been elite in the run game since the Seattle game in 2022
Not true. Not at all. Not sure why you'd suggest otherwise other than to suggest that Jones can't be a mobile threat anymore. He had 50 yards against DET and 71 yards rushing against Wash. Averaged 8+ per rush in that Vikings loss. lol he had 91 rushing yards against the Colts in the win and in game. 78 more rushing yards in the playoff win.
You guys hate 2022 but ignoring it won't make it go away.
No it won't go away. Near last in ADOT, leads the league in passes behind the LOS. Why would anybody advocate more of that.
He hasn’t played that way since Mid 2022 except against the Vikings (worst defense in the league) and the Colts. Since the 5-1 start in 2022 homes is averaging 193 yards with 11 passing tds, and 38 rushing yards and 5 rushing TDs in 15 games. That’s with the Minnesota game in 2022 and the Arizona game pulling up his averages. If you take out those games they get much worse.
We’re 18 months from a point where Jones was even consistently decent.
Get the QB if you can but don't forget those lines...
It has been well over ten years where I think you ended a season and felt the Giants won the LoS battle most games or at least were highly competitive.
I can't anymore. Waste of time.
Going into the season the WRs were better on paper, they didn’t perform that way. We had Toney, Robinson, James, Golladay. Toney was still considered a good player. I’m saying before the season started. Regardless it was a shit group then and a shit group now.
People are saying the OL is better and that can’t be determined. Neal is still the RT. JMS played worse than Feliciano. Is Runyon better than what we had? He wasn’t even a full time starter. We hope they are better but we have been saying that for 10 years. “We fixed the OL”.
So how is this roster better by leaps and bounds? It was a shitty offensive roster in 2022 and I think it’s worse in 2024 on O.
On D it’s slightly better but we have no 2nd safety and who is playing the other DL? Williams was much better than anyone we had.
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In comment 16462139 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16462108 Scooter185 said:
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BD tried to adjust and well we saw the results.
Jones hasn’t been elite in the run game since the Seattle game in 2022
Not true. Not at all. Not sure why you'd suggest otherwise other than to suggest that Jones can't be a mobile threat anymore. He had 50 yards against DET and 71 yards rushing against Wash. Averaged 8+ per rush in that Vikings loss. lol he had 91 rushing yards against the Colts in the win and in game. 78 more rushing yards in the playoff win.
You guys hate 2022 but ignoring it won't make it go away.
No it won't go away. Near last in ADOT, leads the league in passes behind the LOS. Why would anybody advocate more of that.
No one is advocating for it. I literally just said we should draft a QB if he's available.
Carry on.
I can't anymore. Waste of time.
Week 16 is included in those stats. It’s very clearly stated in there as well. Reading is fundamental.
Daniel Jones is 28 and in year 6, he’s not 24 in year 3.
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David Sills was starting.
AND there was a $72 million dollar WR riding the bench.
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and most of his runs were huge first down runs that helped the giants win games. Can he play that way again in 24? I guess we will find out but to proclaim with absolute certainty that he can't is echo chamber horse shit. Why can't he do that again? Tell me why.
Because the opposing DCs figured out if he can't run he's really bad. The template was set, really in the back half of 22, but especially in the playoff game against PHI.
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In comment 16462039 djm said:
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and most of his runs were huge first down runs that helped the giants win games. Can he play that way again in 24? I guess we will find out but to proclaim with absolute certainty that he can't is echo chamber horse shit. Why can't he do that again? Tell me why.
Because the opposing DCs figured out if he can't run he's really bad. The template was set, really in the back half of 22, but especially in the playoff game against PHI.
You conveniently forget he had constant line breakdowns and nobody to throw to. He had to run. So yes, focusing on stopping him from running means he has to throw. Again, with no OL and nobody to throw to. Of course that was the way to stop him. Improved OL and a WR corps of MHL/Nabers/Odunze, Robinson and Slayton/Hyatt is going to make a big difference. (If that's how we roll)
Part of the line playing poorly was Jones’ own fault. He was holding on to the ball forever and not taking chances downfield so defenders were just pinning their ears back. You saw that change when DeVito and Tyrod started
Or like teams like Detroit, Miami, SF and the Rams do now.
Or like teams like Detroit, Miami, SF and the Rams do now.
I mean they had Barkley. They only had to use the QB run game as often as they did because the QB isn’t good at throwing the ball.
Most of Jones’ runs were designed runs, not him running away from pressure. Zone saying “the line always broke down of course he had to run” doesn’t check out.
Only defender that was even trying in that game after the 1st quarter was Okereke. That team flat out quit in the 2nd quarter.
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In comment 16462102 rnargi said:
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In comment 16462093 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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I think Jones had a good 2022 season considering the talent around him and Daboll did a good job utilizing it.
I thought the skill players were lacking. When they couldn't run the ball well it was a very challenging environment for Jones and would have been for just about every QB.
Agreed. On all counts. And I'm on record that I think they should consider a QB because of DJs injury history, but only if one falls or it's a palatable trade. I am also on record vehemently against moving vast amounts of future draft capital for a QB who will be playing on a roster mostly devoid of talent for the foreseeable future. If the Giants trade up for one of the big three, I will bet my bottom dollar the Giants are "considering" the 5th year option for a guy who's drafted into as bad a situation as Jones was and we'll be ready to trade the next generation of picks to move up for another "can't miss" QB. Build the lines. Build the team.
It is hard to "build the team" with incompetent QB play. It makes everything look worse than it actually is.
I disagree to an extent. First, the entire offensive line was "incompetent" as have been the WR corps, most of the DL, all of the LBs, the TEs, etc. To blame this whole mess on Jones is a joke. A big, fat, joke. What's Hebert doing with the Chargers and that fucked up lineup? Where are they going? They can't even MAKE the playoffs....but hey, they got the fucking QB, right? Build the team.
I agree Rob. It's exhausting having this perspective on this site lately. I feel like people don't even watch the offensive line. To discount Thomas and then JMS going down last year and having Ezeudu at LT... it's just baffling the hardline viewpoints people take on one position. Even when the OL was (somewhat) functional in 2022, we didn't have the OL, WR, LB, ER to compete with the Eagles or Dallas. We didn't even belong on the filed with those two squads in 2022.
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In comment 16462102 rnargi said:
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In comment 16462093 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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I think Jones had a good 2022 season considering the talent around him and Daboll did a good job utilizing it.
I thought the skill players were lacking. When they couldn't run the ball well it was a very challenging environment for Jones and would have been for just about every QB.
Agreed. On all counts. And I'm on record that I think they should consider a QB because of DJs injury history, but only if one falls or it's a palatable trade. I am also on record vehemently against moving vast amounts of future draft capital for a QB who will be playing on a roster mostly devoid of talent for the foreseeable future. If the Giants trade up for one of the big three, I will bet my bottom dollar the Giants are "considering" the 5th year option for a guy who's drafted into as bad a situation as Jones was and we'll be ready to trade the next generation of picks to move up for another "can't miss" QB. Build the lines. Build the team.
It is hard to "build the team" with incompetent QB play. It makes everything look worse than it actually is.
I disagree to an extent. First, the entire offensive line was "incompetent" as have been the WR corps, most of the DL, all of the LBs, the TEs, etc. To blame this whole mess on Jones is a joke. A big, fat, joke. What's Hebert doing with the Chargers and that fucked up lineup? Where are they going? They can't even MAKE the playoffs....but hey, they got the fucking QB, right? Build the team.
Dude, Daniel Jones has gone uncontested for 5 damn years. What did he do to deserve that? Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees never received such loyal treatment. And they're HOFers. And Daniel Jones has put up atrocious stats, loses more than he wins, and most recently put up worse than 30th ranked starter stats. He's a disaster. But multiple regimes gave him the benefit of the doubt, reworked the line multiple times, added numerous weapons and changed them out again, changed multiple OCs and HCs. Like what the hell? At some point after you tried everything else and changed up coaching and schemes, you have to look at the QB and ask, is HE making everything worse. And 2023 strongly suggests he is, as he was clearly outplayed by a career journeyman in TT and an undrafted rookie FA who lives with his parents. Please stop with the soft defenses of Daniel Jones. You want to improve this team? Replace the guy at the helm, with anybody.
What has changed that's really important is peoples opinion of Daboll and Schoen along with the real possibility of a Giants legacy return or a proven Head coach sitting out there available.
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In comment 16462096 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16462039 djm said:
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and most of his runs were huge first down runs that helped the giants win games. Can he play that way again in 24? I guess we will find out but to proclaim with absolute certainty that he can't is echo chamber horse shit. Why can't he do that again? Tell me why.
Because the opposing DCs figured out if he can't run he's really bad. The template was set, really in the back half of 22, but especially in the playoff game against PHI.
You conveniently forget he had constant line breakdowns and nobody to throw to. He had to run. So yes, focusing on stopping him from running means he has to throw. Again, with no OL and nobody to throw to. Of course that was the way to stop him. Improved OL and a WR corps of MHL/Nabers/Odunze, Robinson and Slayton/Hyatt is going to make a big difference. (If that's how we roll)
Part of the line playing poorly was Jones’ own fault. He was holding on to the ball forever and not taking chances downfield so defenders were just pinning their ears back. You saw that change when DeVito and Tyrod started
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In comment 16462267 ZoneXDOA said:
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In comment 16462096 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16462039 djm said:
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and most of his runs were huge first down runs that helped the giants win games. Can he play that way again in 24? I guess we will find out but to proclaim with absolute certainty that he can't is echo chamber horse shit. Why can't he do that again? Tell me why.
Because the opposing DCs figured out if he can't run he's really bad. The template was set, really in the back half of 22, but especially in the playoff game against PHI.
You conveniently forget he had constant line breakdowns and nobody to throw to. He had to run. So yes, focusing on stopping him from running means he has to throw. Again, with no OL and nobody to throw to. Of course that was the way to stop him. Improved OL and a WR corps of MHL/Nabers/Odunze, Robinson and Slayton/Hyatt is going to make a big difference. (If that's how we roll)
Part of the line playing poorly was Jones’ own fault. He was holding on to the ball forever and not taking chances downfield so defenders were just pinning their ears back. You saw that change when DeVito and Tyrod started
Thomas and JMS and, for part of the time, Barkley were out when Jones was in. You telling me he actually had time to hold on to the ball for too long? For a route to actually develop down field for him to take a shot? Please go watch the games again. When Tyrod and DeVito played they had Barkley, Thomas and JMS back and enjoyed better OL play. Not the BEST OL play, mind you, but having your probowler and 2nd round center back in the lineup certainly made life a little better for whoever was playing QB.
You're defense of Jones is a joke. He came back for the LV game and it was back to the same garbage play from him. To believe you I'd have to accept that the line was bad for Jones, much better for a few games, then suddenly bad for Jones again, then better when he got hurt. It's asinine. There is no planet where your 100 million dollar QB should even be on the same plane as DeVito, regardless of supporting cast. You backed the wrong fucking horse. I'm sorry. It's time to get off.
We are talking about 2 different groups of WRs. Sills was not part of the plan nor was Slayton during training camp. We all thought Slayton was going to be cut at the time and he had to take a paycut to not be cut, He's now our #1. So the WRs on Paper were Toney, Golladay, Robinson and James. I think that is a better group on paper than Slayton, Robinson, Hyatt & whoever else we roll out as of today. The landscape of the WR position changes with a rookie WR, if they are as advertised but there are no guarantees.
Yes we all think the OL will be better or at least hope they will. But let's not over rate Runyan and Elumemor like they are All Pros. Will JMS be better and what about Neal? The OL can possibly be much better and it can still be as bad as last year.
What a shitty outcome this would be. It's not Barley level stupid, but it's still pretty stupid.
Garrett Wilson puts up 1k a year with Zach Wilson. If Nabers is as good as we think (a better prospect than Garrett Wilson was), then he will put up way more than 700 yds.
Not to singly this one post out, but just a general theme I’ve noticed…
It’s really frustrating to read the overstated negativity - to the point of blatant arrogance — that some posters have when it comes to Jones. He’s not great, but the way some posters talk about him you’d think he couldn’t throw the ball more than 10 yards.
I’ve heard posters say they’ll never be a playoff competitor with Jones..they won a playoff game with him and Hodgins/Slayton/James as his WR trio. I’ve heard posters say they won’t watch next year…well then don’t? Now saying Nabers will have (insert low receiving total) with Jones…like we haven’t seen other receivers put up solid production with WAY worse QB’s like Zach Wilson
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I hope Nabers is ok catching 50/700/4.
What a shitty outcome this would be. It's not Barley level stupid, but it's still pretty stupid.
Garrett Wilson puts up 1k a year with Zach Wilson. If Nabers is as good as we think (a better prospect than Garrett Wilson was), then he will put up way more than 700 yds.
Not to singly this one post out, but just a general theme I’ve noticed…
It’s really frustrating to read the overstated negativity - to the point of blatant arrogance — that some posters have when it comes to Jones. He’s not great, but the way some posters talk about him you’d think he couldn’t throw the ball more than 10 yards.
I’ve heard posters say they’ll never be a playoff competitor with Jones..they won a playoff game with him and Hodgins/Slayton/James as his WR trio. I’ve heard posters say they won’t watch next year…well then don’t? Now saying Nabers will have (insert low receiving total) with Jones…like we haven’t seen other receivers put up solid production with WAY worse QB’s like Zach Wilson
Yeah, whether it was Lock or DJ or a combination I think Nabers would have at least 1000 yards and 6 tds.
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I hope Nabers is ok catching 50/700/4.
What a shitty outcome this would be. It's not Barley level stupid, but it's still pretty stupid.
Garrett Wilson puts up 1k a year with Zach Wilson. If Nabers is as good as we think (a better prospect than Garrett Wilson was), then he will put up way more than 700 yds.
Not to singly this one post out, but just a general theme I’ve noticed…
It’s really frustrating to read the overstated negativity - to the point of blatant arrogance — that some posters have when it comes to Jones. He’s not great, but the way some posters talk about him you’d think he couldn’t throw the ball more than 10 yards.
I’ve heard posters say they’ll never be a playoff competitor with Jones..they won a playoff game with him and Hodgins/Slayton/James as his WR trio. I’ve heard posters say they won’t watch next year…well then don’t? Now saying Nabers will have (insert low receiving total) with Jones…like we haven’t seen other receivers put up solid production with WAY worse QB’s like Zach Wilson
Fans have a right to be negative. Jones has been a poor performer for the majority of his 5 seasons here and now might get a 6th.
We want more as a fan and not hang our hats on some fluke standout games when the majority of his time has been bad and is terrible to watch. The excuses he gets are really hard to take as well. I'm done, I can't watch the guy anymore.