-Daboll loves Nabers
-RV and Woodstock's connected friend say we aren't interested in JJM
-We have been trying to trade up for Maye, but unwilling to pay whatever it takes (reportedly more than 3 1sts)
-Hughes said we like JJM a lot, supposedly this leak angered Schoen
-Vikings are supposedly all in on Maye and appear likely to outbid the Giants if NE is dealing
What this tells me:
Schoen isn't going to pay an insane price for Maye at 3 and that is smart on his part. The odds aren't in our favor trading all that draft capital for a boom or bust prospect when our roster needs a lot of help.
Nabers is our top WR target and as many have speculated Daboll loves the possibilities of having a true Z receiver able to attack defenses from everywhere on the field.
JJM is likely on the table at 6, but not via tradeup, the recent reports about us not liking him smell like they could be an attempt at spreading disinformation knowing we aren't likely to trade up.
My takeaway:
Schoen is planning on letting the draft come to him knowing he will get MHJ, Nabers or JJM at 6 unless he is blown away with a trade-down offer. This is the safest and statistically most sound approach for a team with so many holes.
What do you think?
Yes, there are some ramifications financially with the contract, but it's not as bad as it could have been considering the position he plays, but where the injury is really giving Schoen and Daboll new life is in the court of public opinion. They don't have to admit they completely fell on their faces with that contract, they simply need to realize the very real injury concerns and pivot. No one can question that like they would if Jones was fully healthy.
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and then just magically get a QB next year is complete BS. We can't control what happens this coming draft round 1, let alone a draft in 2025.. The Giants will NOT take a WR in the high first round to then play lose-lose-lose all season for a QB..
The assumption is we suck in 2024 and will be drafting near the top again, but what if we luck into a few more wins. Stranger things have happened (see last year). Trying to get a top QB at 6 would typically take a lot less draft capital than trying to move up from the 10 - 15 range. If we have a chance this year, take it! don't want to keep hearing wait until next year.
I don't think that's Schoen assumption if we take Nabers. He's betting on us being better off with Nabers's high potential to be a top WR in the league or JJM being as good or better than Maye vs trading JJM or Nabers plus 2025 1st and 2026 1st for Maye whom likelu has a better chance to be mediocre than elite
If all 3 are gone then we get MHJ, not a bad option?
If Maye, McCarthy and Nabers are all gone, and assuming Williams is as well, that means NYG is picking between Daniels and MHjr. Where do we sign up for that scenario!?
-Caleb goes 1...no chance trade up.
- Daniels goes 2...no chance to trade up
- Maye goes 3...either Pats won't trade or they want something insane. Either way we can't feasibly get him.
- Vikings offer 3 one's and two 2's for JJM at 4...Cards tell us we'd need something similar just to move up from 6. Daboll and Schoen don't think he's a prospect to do that for.
- Daboll doesn't love Nix or Pennix and doesn't see them as close to a first round prospect.
I see people saying if we don't take a QB at 6 it means this regime is "doubling down" on Jones or proving that they are just going business as usual for the giants. But what about that scenario above? What if they love the top 3 and literally don't have the opportunity to get one? What if they've offered three ones to the Pats and been rebuffed? Can we really say that black and white that no QB at 6 means they are all in on jones? I don't think that's reality.
If this plays out as you outline, and Jones isn't cut as a post-June 1st casualty, then this would be tripling down on Jones, not doubling down. The double down occurred with this asinine second contract.
To me, if you can't secure the QB-of-the-future prospect in this draft, roll with Lock, Cutlets (and maybe a late round QB or UDFA as option #3) and cut Jones because we have reached a circular error in Excel with this guy. He's not working.
So, end the relationship like Denver is doing with a HoF caliber QB in Wilson. Enough of this experiment.
Ask yourself this question. Do you really think Jones is materially better than Lock? I don't.
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In comment 16462181 Lambuth_Special said:
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Raanan has said that Daniels is the first choice, followed by JJM, and that they like Maye but not as much as assumed.
Sometimes Jordan seems like he is winging it.
Yeah, I see no chance the Giants all the sudden changed their minds about Maye after working for months on trading up for him. I just don't think we are in the position roster wise to pay the price and Schoen isn't the type to get fleeced in a deal for everything he's got. The Vikings being all in on Maye makes sense because their roster (especially on offense) is ready go be truly elite with the right QB.
Schoen did give more than ideal to secure Deonte Banks even though Joey Porter Jr. and others were still on the board.
Or I guess it could be Daniels instead of MHJ, but in all likelihood if CW, JD, Maye, JJM and Nabers go in the top 5 then we run to the podium for MHJ.
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Finding the QB is everything and until you get one you should be hunting for one. I'm simply saying if your scouts and personnel evaluators think one of them is "The Guy" then you have to do whatever you can to get him. You can fill out the roster in other ways and you can replenish draft picks through trades. The Texans have literally just altered their franchise by taking a guy last draft that a lot of people doubted. Now they're considered a Super Bowl contender. Things change quickly when you find that player.
Maye cannot be compared to CJ Stroud. CJ Stroud had a safe floor with a real upside to his ceiling. What he did against an NFL level defense against Georgia in the semifinals was truly elite and no QBs in this draft have anything close to that performance on their resumè. Most of the actual football people in Carolina wanted Stroud, but Tepper loved Young based on who knows what.
Also, the Texans didn't trade up for Stroud. Look at the more relevant example: Bryce Young was more of a boom or bust QB and Carolina traded their future for him. It's looking more than likely they will struggle to get out of the hole they're in for a long time.
Actually, Young looked even better against Georgia than Stroud did, not by a significant amount though. It would be easy to just evaluate a prospect’s game against the best team and project from there, but it doesn’t always work that way. When it comes to the whole package, Maye can absolutely be compared to Stroud. Doesn’t mean he’ll end up as good.
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
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In comment 16462287 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16462181 Lambuth_Special said:
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Raanan has said that Daniels is the first choice, followed by JJM, and that they like Maye but not as much as assumed.
Sometimes Jordan seems like he is winging it.
Yeah, I see no chance the Giants all the sudden changed their minds about Maye after working for months on trading up for him. I just don't think we are in the position roster wise to pay the price and Schoen isn't the type to get fleeced in a deal for everything he's got. The Vikings being all in on Maye makes sense because their roster (especially on offense) is ready go be truly elite with the right QB.
Schoen did give more than ideal to secure Deonte Banks even though Joey Porter Jr. and others were still on the board.
Trading a 5th round pick for a good CB is different than trading pick 6, 2025 1st, pick 47 and 2025 2nd or pick 6, 2025 1st and 2026 1st for a boom or bust QB. The former isn't even a gamble, it's just hedging your bet. The latter is a massive make or break gamble which probably has a higher chance to doom us for another decade and have Schoen/Daboll lose their jobs than booming into a new Era of NYG greatness.
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
Jones's neck is why they went with someone like Drew Lock rather than re-signing Tyrod Taylor or just going with Cutlets. If they do not believe that the QB's available at 6 will be an improvement over Lock I can see bypassing that position. Now, if they do that they better be correct because the flipside is a disaster.
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
If Jones' neck is still a problem, they WILL come out of this draft with a QB. If they don't, then they don't think the neck is a problem.
What they are not going to do is tell YOU that they are going to take a QB three weeks before the draft.
He didn't seem right against the Raiders. Initially, I thought it was rust and being a bit shell shocked but not so sure there is not more to it.
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Then why the fuck would they ever consider not picking a qb this draft?
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
If Jones' neck is still a problem, they WILL come out of this draft with a QB. If they don't, then they don't think the neck is a problem.
What they are not going to do is tell YOU that they are going to take a QB three weeks before the draft.
Well thanks captain obvious lol. I know they won't be screaming from the rooftops that they want a QB, but all we have to go on is what the media and asshats tell us and right now that's sounding more and more like a WR.
The only way all 3 can be gone is if MHj or Jayden Daniels fell... either way I will take them over Maye, JJM, or Nabers.
Eric, hypothetically speaking, if that's the case, what happens regarding Jones in terms of his contract?
I've said for a couple of weeks that I think there is a good shot Harrison is there.
A lot of people think Nabers may go before Harrison.
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In comment 16462210 jv said:
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Finding the QB is everything and until you get one you should be hunting for one. I'm simply saying if your scouts and personnel evaluators think one of them is "The Guy" then you have to do whatever you can to get him. You can fill out the roster in other ways and you can replenish draft picks through trades. The Texans have literally just altered their franchise by taking a guy last draft that a lot of people doubted. Now they're considered a Super Bowl contender. Things change quickly when you find that player.
Maye cannot be compared to CJ Stroud. CJ Stroud had a safe floor with a real upside to his ceiling. What he did against an NFL level defense against Georgia in the semifinals was truly elite and no QBs in this draft have anything close to that performance on their resumè. Most of the actual football people in Carolina wanted Stroud, but Tepper loved Young based on who knows what.
Also, the Texans didn't trade up for Stroud. Look at the more relevant example: Bryce Young was more of a boom or bust QB and Carolina traded their future for him. It's looking more than likely they will struggle to get out of the hole they're in for a long time.
Actually, Young looked even better against Georgia than Stroud did, not by a significant amount though. It would be easy to just evaluate a prospect’s game against the best team and project from there, but it doesn’t always work that way. When it comes to the whole package, Maye can absolutely be compared to Stroud. Doesn’t mean he’ll end up as good.
I thought Stroud was the definitive #1 pick personally. I didn't see him as a boom or bust QB. I do not think Stroud and Maye are comparable as prospects, that's just me though. If MHJ didn't get knocked out of the game with that hit to the head in the end zone I think Ohio st wins that game and the championship to follow.
Also, Bryce Young beat the 2020/2021 team in the championship. That defense was not on the level of the 2022/2023 defense. Young got crushed against the 2021/2022 defense 33-18 and threw 2 picks against a defense which was still a notch below the 2022/2023 defense which Stroud lit up in incredible fashion.
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Then why the fuck would they ever consider not picking a qb this draft?
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
If Jones' neck is still a problem, they WILL come out of this draft with a QB. If they don't, then they don't think the neck is a problem.
What they are not going to do is tell YOU that they are going to take a QB three weeks before the draft.
The interesting thing is if Schoen has information about a QB dropping to the bottom of the first/into the second round. If he pulls off a Nabers/QB combo that would be a coup.
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
You're just arriving at these high expectations thought now?? JFC.
These high expectations for Jones should have been in place once his 2019 rookie season ended.
He wasn't drafted #6 to be a passenger. He was drafted #6 to be a force multiplier.
I continue to be dumbfounded by those who don't recognize this and essentially treat Jones as if he was the last pick in the draft - Mr. Irrelevant.
Again - JFC...
Staying at 6 basically leaves us with a guarantee of MHJ, Nabers or JJM. Those are not bad options while keeping all your picks for the future to continue building.
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Then why the fuck would they ever consider not picking a qb this draft?
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
You're just arriving at these high expectations thought now?? JFC.
These high expectations for Jones should have been in place once his 2019 rookie season ended.
He wasn't drafted #6 to be a passenger. He was drafted #6 to be a force multiplier.
I continue to be dumbfounded by those who don't recognize this and essentially treat Jones as if he was the last pick in the draft - Mr. Irrelevant.
Again - JFC...
No, I agree those expectations should have always been there. I'm just reiterating it.
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Curious about that.
Staying at 6 basically leaves us with a guarantee of MHJ, Nabers or JJM. Those are not bad options while keeping all your picks for the future to continue building.
You and I are on the same page. This is how I am looking at it. Wild cards to me are (1) Odunze (we're assuming Harrison is Nabers is gone) and (2) does someone try to trade up with Giants and offers a really interesting package (like the one I posted about the Bears).
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Jones career may already be over.
Eric, hypothetically speaking, if that's the case, what happens regarding Jones in terms of his contract?
If he can't pass a physical due to neck before March of 2025 then we are on the hook for the entire 41.6 million of his 2025 contract. If he can pass a physical and we move on before March of 2025, then we can save about half of that 41.6 million.
For the umpteenth time, the problem with picking Jones at 6 was not that they reached (although that's part of it), it's that they multiplied the error by refusing to admit they made a mistake and then giving him an enormous contract.
If you draft a QB and he's not the guy within 2-3 years, MOVE ON AND TRY AGAIN.
Or we nail it.
If we don't nail it, guess what? We try again.
Are you a member of the BBI Sure Thing Draft Society where you only want to draft a QB with 100% certainty he will be good?
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
This would be the worst case scenario for the Giants. If QB's go 1-2-3 and none of those teams trade down and then Cards draft a receiver (which is think is very likely), I think the odds are greater than 50-50 that the Chargers trade with he Vikings for the 4th QB. Then we're shit out of luck unless we trade back into the first for Nix/Penix.
I still think it's likely to go 3 QBs + MHjr + Alt
Which would mean Daniels, Maye or McCarthy will be sitting there along with Nabers.
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In comment 16462327 Joey in VA said:
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Curious about that.
Staying at 6 basically leaves us with a guarantee of MHJ, Nabers or JJM. Those are not bad options while keeping all your picks for the future to continue building.
You and I are on the same page. This is how I am looking at it. Wild cards to me are (1) Odunze (we're assuming Harrison is Nabers is gone) and (2) does someone try to trade up with Giants and offers a really interesting package (like the one I posted about the Bears).
Ive imagined a trade down with the Falcons or Bears getting an extra 2nd round pick and maybe Odunze or JJM or maybe Penix which would be amazing. I could see the Jaguars trading up for a top WR, but the package would have to be truly out of this world to move from 6 down to 17.
I thought Stroud was the definitive #1 pick personally. I didn't see him as a boom or bust QB. I do not think Stroud and Maye are comparable as prospects, that's just me though. If MHJ didn't get knocked out of the game with that hit to the head in the end zone I think Ohio st wins that game and the championship to follow.
Also, Bryce Young beat the 2020/2021 team in the championship. That defense was not on the level of the 2022/2023 defense. Young got crushed against the 2021/2022 defense 33-18 and threw 2 picks against a defense which was still a notch below the 2022/2023 defense which Stroud lit up in incredible fashion.
I’m a Georgia fan, and I can tell you that is not the consensus at all regarding the stronger year on defense. Most consider 2021 to be Georgia’s peak on defense, while the offense was much improved in 2022. Maybe your opinion is different, but the stats are significantly in favor of the 2021 team. You also may have missed the 2021 SEC championship where Young went off. And I’m not so certain Georgia beats bama in the rematch if Jameson Williams doesn’t get hurt.
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think three quarterbacks are definitely going in the first three picks (New England reporter insists they may even take McCarthy).
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
This would be the worst case scenario for the Giants. If QB's go 1-2-3 and none of those teams trade down and then Cards draft a receiver (which is think is very likely), I think the odds are greater than 50-50 that the Chargers trade with he Vikings for the 4th QB. Then we're shit out of luck unless we trade back into the first for Nix/Penix.
Then we get Nabers or trade down, not really shit out of luck with a guy that could easily turn into a top 5 WR. Also, I believe the reports that the Vikings are all in on Maye with fallback option being Penix. They are not trading the same package for JJM as they would for Maye.
should read "back into," as in trading up after making a selection at 6.
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think three quarterbacks are definitely going in the first three picks (New England reporter insists they may even take McCarthy).
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
This would be the worst case scenario for the Giants. If QB's go 1-2-3 and none of those teams trade down and then Cards draft a receiver (which is think is very likely), I think the odds are greater than 50-50 that the Chargers trade with he Vikings for the 4th QB. Then we're shit out of luck unless we trade back into the first for Nix/Penix.
You need to prepare yourself for the scenario where all four QBs are gone and the Giants "settle" for an elite receiver.
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In comment 16462344 Eric from BBI said:
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think three quarterbacks are definitely going in the first three picks (New England reporter insists they may even take McCarthy).
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
This would be the worst case scenario for the Giants. If QB's go 1-2-3 and none of those teams trade down and then Cards draft a receiver (which is think is very likely), I think the odds are greater than 50-50 that the Chargers trade with he Vikings for the 4th QB. Then we're shit out of luck unless we trade back into the first for Nix/Penix.
You need to prepare yourself for the scenario where all four QBs are gone and the Giants "settle" for an elite receiver.
Lol not only am I prepared, I'm fully expecting it. That doesn't mean I have to be pleased though.
Also, really? "elite" receiver? These receivers have just as much a chance to bust as the top QB's.
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I thought Stroud was the definitive #1 pick personally. I didn't see him as a boom or bust QB. I do not think Stroud and Maye are comparable as prospects, that's just me though. If MHJ didn't get knocked out of the game with that hit to the head in the end zone I think Ohio st wins that game and the championship to follow.
Also, Bryce Young beat the 2020/2021 team in the championship. That defense was not on the level of the 2022/2023 defense. Young got crushed against the 2021/2022 defense 33-18 and threw 2 picks against a defense which was still a notch below the 2022/2023 defense which Stroud lit up in incredible fashion.
I’m a Georgia fan, and I can tell you that is not the consensus at all regarding the stronger year on defense. Most consider 2021 to be Georgia’s peak on defense, while the offense was much improved in 2022. Maybe your opinion is different, but the stats are significantly in favor of the 2021 team. You also may have missed the 2021 SEC championship where Young went off. And I’m not so certain Georgia beats bama in the rematch if Jameson Williams doesn’t get hurt.
Thats fair and you sound like you have a better grasp of Georgia football than me. Nevertheless, I don't personally see Bryce Young's performances in the same dimension as Stroud's. And I don't think Maye has any performances even close to either Young or Stroud's. Stroud in tier 1, Young in tier 2, then Maye in tier 3 or 4 for me.
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In comment 16462359 LW_Giants said:
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In comment 16462344 Eric from BBI said:
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think three quarterbacks are definitely going in the first three picks (New England reporter insists they may even take McCarthy).
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
This would be the worst case scenario for the Giants. If QB's go 1-2-3 and none of those teams trade down and then Cards draft a receiver (which is think is very likely), I think the odds are greater than 50-50 that the Chargers trade with he Vikings for the 4th QB. Then we're shit out of luck unless we trade back into the first for Nix/Penix.
You need to prepare yourself for the scenario where all four QBs are gone and the Giants "settle" for an elite receiver.
Lol not only am I prepared, I'm fully expecting it. That doesn't mean I have to be pleased though.
Also, really? "elite" receiver? These receivers have just as much a chance to bust as the top QB's.
MHJ or Nabers chances of being a bust are incomparable to Maye's, just imp.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
Young obliterated that D in the SECCG. He had both of his future NFL WR's.
In the CFCG he had already lost one of those WR's the week prior and then the other in the first half. If he didn't I think he would have lit them up again.
The 2022 Georgia D was still outstanding but not to the 2021 level.
Young obliterated that D in the SECCG. He had both of his future NFL WR's.
In the CFCG he had already lost one of those WR's the week prior and then the other in the first half. If he didn't I think he would have lit them up again.
The 2022 Georgia D was still outstanding but not to the 2021 level.
That's fair, in terms of individual game performances I thought Stroud putting the team on his back (especially with no MHJ for the 2nd half) was on a different level compared to Young's performances. Then you factor in the size of Stroud vs Young and it was a no Brainer for Stroud > Young to me. Either way, Maye had no performances like Stroud or Young did. He is a true boom or bust prospect.
They want to move on from DJ. Obvious. But don't take a QB you aren't sold on, just because you need to try and try again. Sooner or later Giants need to pull the trigger on finding a replacement, and not keep punting, but if the QB you want isn't available, no fliers at 6.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
He also has McCarthy's ceiling as Joe Burrow, Maye's as Eli Manning, Nix as Deshaun Watson, and Penix as Jordan Love.
There isn't a WR in the NFL worth Burrow or Love in trade. Not Hill, not Jefferson.
Draft one of these QBs and install a system that tailor's to their strengths. This wouldn't be drafting Daniel Jones at 6. These guys are all talented.