Ryan Dunleavy @rydunleavy
So, Josh Allen, who then #Giants GM Dave Gettleman wanted to trade up for after drafting Daniel Jones instead 6th in 2019, gets slightly more $ than the contract that current Giants GM Joe Schoen just gave Brian Burns after trading for him.
Gettleman wound up drafting All-Pro DT Dexter Lawrence after he couldnt trade up from 17th. Great pick.
Then traded up for CB DeAndre Baker at 30th. Played one season here
********
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton
Gettleman getting credit for Dexter Lawrence is one of those, "The process sucked and you got lucky," which happens more than we'd like to admit.
As Ryan said, NYG tried trading up for Allen 7th; one pick after Jones. If they were willing to do that, they should've pushed harder before Jaguars were on the clock. It was way too late.
Gettleman also tried to trade up for Devin Bush with No. 17 and Steelers beat them to the punch. So, 17 was a bit of a panic and Gettleman went Dex.
"com-put-ers" to the offices.
Couldn't quite find the right words to describe them. Knew his magnets though!
Same thing happened in 96 with GY.
Schoen's success with the draft can be argued some but his preparation for the draft can't be. They have deals in place with folks prior to the draft, prior to the pick range etc.. They don't scramble on the clock, they have shit worked out already.
Which is why I think we have a deal ready to go to get Maye and our fall back is JJM at 6 if it doesn't go through for Maye.
On the other hand, Gettleman drafted Jones 6th, because he feared the Broncos at 10.
So why not take Allen 6th? Then move into 7, 8 or 9? Knowing it would be easier to move to those spots with Allen ff the board and not Jones off the board?
Why werent they working the phones for 7/8/9 when they knew there was a very good chance Allen AND Jones would be available at 6?
WOW
Lol! Too funny yet so true
It was reported at the time that the Giants tried trading up to take Allen
That's pretty much exactly what Houston did this past year, taking Stroud at 2 and then traded up to 3 to take Anderson.
On the other hand, Gettleman drafted Jones 6th, because he feared the Broncos at 10.
So why not take Allen 6th? Then move into 7, 8 or 9? Knowing it would be easier to move to those spots with Allen ff the board and not Jones off the board?
Why werent they working the phones for 7/8/9 when they knew there was a very good chance Allen AND Jones would be available at 6?
WOW
Technically we would have Allen and no Dexy if this went down, so it's a moot point. In a hypothetical world we could say Geettlemam wasn't an idiot and waited for Herbert. He let the draft come to him and took JA 6 and Dexy 17th. In a dream world
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Why would the Giants take Jones at 6 and then try and trade up to get Allen? Something isn't adding up here.
It was reported at the time that the Giants tried trading up to take Allen
Yes, it's true. They were hoping for Jones at #17, but decided to secure him at #6, and then tried to trade up for Allen, quickly.
2. taking dex wasnt panic at all...they couldnt make a deal so they stuck to board and took top rated player.... not sure why anyone would try to take credit away. they still selected a good player
3. they were simply trying to move up to select someone they had higher on their board that was there maybe unexpectedly. not sure why this is an issue?
4. DG gets a lot of shit and most of it is warranted but he made picks... sometimes they work out, sometimes they dont. we forget as a fan base about reeses horrible drafts. If JS takes JJM and he blows, is he going to catch the same amount of shit for it? To me, GMs get WAY too much blame... there are certain things you cant measure and certains things that you just dont know how they will transition to NFL. shit happens, busts happen. No clue why we are still on this.
its very possible JS drafts a bust in first round this year... it happens...to even the best GMs
other teams make the same mistake... he was a flawed prospect... someone gets lucky/it works out and others look silly. its all hindsight. same with parsons...peolple forget the hazing scandal and the fact that many believed he wasnt going to be a great linebacker. dallas started him at MLB and had to move him because he wasnt good in coverage.
AGAIN, flawed prospect...
its not like we were picking first and we took a guy who was a clear cut 7th round talent...
GMs make mistakes all the time. us fans benefit from hindsight
2. taking dex wasnt panic at all...they couldnt make a deal so they stuck to board and took top rated player.... not sure why anyone would try to take credit away. they still selected a good player
3. they were simply trying to move up to select someone they had higher on their board that was there maybe unexpectedly. not sure why this is an issue?
4. DG gets a lot of shit and most of it is warranted but he made picks... sometimes they work out, sometimes they dont. we forget as a fan base about reeses horrible drafts. If JS takes JJM and he blows, is he going to catch the same amount of shit for it? To me, GMs get WAY too much blame... there are certain things you cant measure and certains things that you just dont know how they will transition to NFL. shit happens, busts happen. No clue why we are still on this.
its very possible JS drafts a bust in first round this year... it happens...to even the best GMs
+1
A Josh Allen and Dex draft would have been amazing
War Room - ( New Window )
A Josh Allen and Dex draft would have been amazing
agreed... and for what its worth, i wanted allen that year and im in the camp of jones has to go but again, hindsight...he liked jones (as did others). he didnt wait and took him. sucks but its life...
lets just hope this year, the QB we take(if we do) pans out but its certainly possible it doesnt and that shouldnt be as much a reflection on JS as it should the player himself. shit happens. "cant miss prospect" doesnt exist
Jones at #6 was the panic pick, QB or not, a significant reach.
you going to share Bills war room during covid? He was working at his kitchen table...
again, the hate for DG is warranted but a lot of you guys just are so over the top with it...
Jones at #6 was the panic pick, QB or not, a significant reach.
reach sure... panic? i dont see that as the right word. you panic when your move is taken... i think DG felt jones or allen but you take the qb first especially with the rumored whisperings of teams liking jones between 6 and 17.
reach sure... you can argue this
i dont think panic is the right word based on the actual definition of the word panic
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Working like a true visionary War Room - ( New Window )
you going to share Bills war room during covid? He was working at his kitchen table...
again, the hate for DG is warranted but a lot of you guys just are so over the top with it...
Worst GM in NYG history and a sham of a hiring process!
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In comment 16463494 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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Working like a true visionary War Room - ( New Window )
you going to share Bills war room during covid? He was working at his kitchen table...
again, the hate for DG is warranted but a lot of you guys just are so over the top with it...
Worst GM in NYG history and a sham of a hiring process!
sure... you can argue that. fair. i dont know what him like every other GM working from home during a pandemic has to become a knock on him but sure lol...
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In comment 16463494 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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Working like a true visionary War Room - ( New Window )
you going to share Bills war room during covid? He was working at his kitchen table...
again, the hate for DG is warranted but a lot of you guys just are so over the top with it...
Worst GM in NYG history and a sham of a hiring process!
And, at least hide the lotion! LOL
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In comment 16463499 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 16463494 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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Working like a true visionary War Room - ( New Window )
you going to share Bills war room during covid? He was working at his kitchen table...
again, the hate for DG is warranted but a lot of you guys just are so over the top with it...
Worst GM in NYG history and a sham of a hiring process!
And, at least hide the lotion! LOL
LMAO
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Interest in him was well-known before the draft.
Jones at #6 was the panic pick, QB or not, a significant reach.
reach sure... panic? i dont see that as the right word. you panic when your move is taken... i think DG felt jones or allen but you take the qb first especially with the rumored whisperings of teams liking jones between 6 and 17.
reach sure... you can argue this
i dont think panic is the right word based on the actual definition of the word panic
I'll put it this way, going Jones at #6 was a very late change of direction from what I'd heard that night. DG got spooked imo. The bigger problem was the reach, which I interpret to some degree as a panic factor as well. YMMV, but it's what I heard that night.
So enough with the hindsight bullshit excuses. The entire future of this franchise was thrown into the toilet in less than two hours on April 25, 2019 by an incompetent idiot.
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Time sure look foolish now. He was a disaster from the day he got the job.
I'm still amazed he was so bad. He was outstanding in pro personnel.
I think there are three major contributing factors that led to that:
1) Limited scope mitigates poor process. It's entirely possible that the same poor planning and process that we saw from Gettleman as a GM were also there when he was in charge of pro personnel, but those flaws were not exposed because it's easier to overcome poor process to achieve strong results when the overall scope of that process is smaller and more manageable. Just like scaling any business, the inefficiencies that you can overcome when you're small will become huge problems at scale.
2) The game evolved quickly at a time when Gettleman did not. Much of Gettleman's underlying strategy (run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer) felt a bit outdated even as he stated them as his objective. The game was quickly becoming more vertical and more aerial, while DG was openly resisting that evolution. There was a hope that he was taking a zig-while-your-competition-zags approach, and there were many who felt that the priorities that DG was focused on were still foundational and essential (there is some truth to that, but having two of your three main objectives be related to the ground game in an increasingly passing league were clearly anachronistic from the very start), but the results during (and after) Gettleman's reign clearly indicate that he did not truly understand what makes NFL teams successful.
3) Increased authority disrupts the checks and balances. Gettleman was a very good head of pro personnel, but also had an experienced GM in Accorsi above him. Accorsi could be the one to determine the strategic outlook and Gettleman might have simply been tasked with the tactical work of finding players that fit Accorsi's view. That would be meaningfully different than being the one who sets that strategic vision. Being able to find the best fit for a sound strategy is very different from defining a sound overall strategy, and that's a big area where Gettleman failed, repeatedly. Everything DG did felt like a reaction, not a plan - that would indicate to me that he was someone who was very good at carrying out someone else's plan, but very bad at actually creating a plan himself. Without someone above DG to correct his course, he was allowed to pursue his own reactionary methods rather than align with someone who had a better approach to preparation.
Jones at #6 was the panic pick, QB or not, a significant reach.
I'm generally not a kneejerk "throw the remote" guy when watching the draft, but that one made me want to pull an Office Space on household appliances. I watched Jones play for three years for Duke and never, ever, did I have the thought "This guy is a future top ten pick!" cross my mind. It was such a bizarre pick.
EDGE Josh Allen, not QB Josh Allen (who had been drafted the year before).
So enough with the hindsight bullshit excuses. The entire future of this franchise was thrown into the toilet in less than two hours on April 25, 2019 by an incompetent idiot.
I'd go back a year. The moment they drafted Barkley you could see where this was all going.
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Interest in him was well-known before the draft.
Jones at #6 was the panic pick, QB or not, a significant reach.
I'm generally not a kneejerk "throw the remote" guy when watching the draft, but that one made me want to pull an Office Space on household appliances. I watched Jones play for three years for Duke and never, ever, did I have the thought "This guy is a future top ten pick!" cross my mind. It was such a bizarre pick.
I saw RED for days I was so annoyed.
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In comment 16463499 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 16463494 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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Working like a true visionary War Room - ( New Window )
you going to share Bills war room during covid? He was working at his kitchen table...
again, the hate for DG is warranted but a lot of you guys just are so over the top with it...
Worst GM in NYG history and a sham of a hiring process!
sure... you can argue that. fair. i dont know what him like every other GM working from home during a pandemic has to become a knock on him but sure lol...
Oh, I don't know, maybe it's the lack of any additional monitors, the presence of only one cell phone, the use of a printed binder rather than electronic evaluations.
I don't think it's crazy to expect just a baseline WFH setup as a minimum. It wouldn't have had to be innovative, just not embarrassingly luddite.
Your desire to defend DG is interesting.
THE BIGGEST MISTAKE IN NFL HISTORY
My god, there might be people here that think DJ could win in the NFL with a reasonable offensive roster and game plan catered to his strengths BEFORE the injuries.
BUT
The cult, the hyperbole, it rests elsewhere.
it is absurd.
I said it on draft night, and stuck by it. Check mark.
The.
End.
Never forget!
Yessir!
Dunk, lol.
I'm hoping this is the year we get a new QB for a multitude of reasons, but not having to constantly look at Gettleman's stamp on this team is a big one.
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The guy won a playoff game with a terrible, terrible roster and was the very best player on the field in the NFL that week.
Never forget!
Brilliant!
I said it on draft night, and stuck by it. Check mark.
The.
End.
Yes you did, and you never backed down even after last year's fool's gold. Keep fighting the good fight Sir!
I said it on draft night, and stuck by it. Check mark.
The.
End.
Panic move was a common refrain around here for some of us.
Gettleman heard voices. Mr. Covert Operations believed Jones was such a hot target that if he didn't draft him at #6 that he would be gone at #17. Remember, he said he knew for "a fact" at least two other teams were going to draft Jones before #17.
That wasn't close to being true. Gettleman got defensive and tried to sell the lie to cover his ass.
Dexter Lawrence turned out to be a great pick once the current coaching staff actually used him properly. Under Gettleman/Judge, he was stuck at a position that didn't properly use his skillset and was on his way to being considered a bust.
That's why I don't buy the idea that one good pick, or even one good draft, will change the fortunes of this team. Either the process in place is a good one that will maximize talent, or we'll be looking at tearing everything apart again very soon.
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The guy won a playoff game with a terrible, terrible roster and was the very best player on the field in the NFL that week.
Never forget!
HOWEVER
The people that knew him best, are far more knowledgeable
Than any of us, signed him to a second contract when all they had to do was tag him.
Drum up all your ridiculous conspiracy theories.
That is all they are.
What we are left with is a QB drafted at 6 was resigned by his own team.
A QB that gets a second contract from the team that drafted him is not a reach.
If they felt he was a reach, he would have been tagged.
Done.
Many don’t even want the Giants to give the kid a chance because he might play well…I think that is the only take that deserves ridicule. I don’t know who is going to be the QB in 24. I want that QB to win games. I want a replacement on the roster because of Jones’ injury history. I don’t get the hostility.
I want to be a reach too.
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In comment 16463533 Thegratefulhead said:
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The guy won a playoff game with a terrible, terrible roster and was the very best player on the field in the NFL that week.
Never forget!
The easy part to ridicule. I get it.
HOWEVER
The people that knew him best, are far more knowledgeable
Than any of us, signed him to a second contract when all they had to do was tag him.
Drum up all your ridiculous conspiracy theories.
That is all they are.
What we are left with is a QB drafted at 6 was resigned by his own team.
A QB that gets a second contract from the team that drafted him is not a reach.
If they felt he was a reach, he would have been tagged.
Done.
Many don’t even want the Giants to give the kid a chance because he might play well…I think that is the only take that deserves ridicule. I don’t know who is going to be the QB in 24. I want that QB to win games. I want a replacement on the roster because of Jones’ injury history. I don’t get the hostility.
because its standard BBI and the few posters who are consistently dicks...
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In comment 16463503 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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In comment 16463499 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 16463494 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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Working like a true visionary War Room - ( New Window )
you going to share Bills war room during covid? He was working at his kitchen table...
again, the hate for DG is warranted but a lot of you guys just are so over the top with it...
Worst GM in NYG history and a sham of a hiring process!
sure... you can argue that. fair. i dont know what him like every other GM working from home during a pandemic has to become a knock on him but sure lol...
Oh, I don't know, maybe it's the lack of any additional monitors, the presence of only one cell phone, the use of a printed binder rather than electronic evaluations.
I don't think it's crazy to expect just a baseline WFH setup as a minimum. It wouldn't have had to be innovative, just not embarrassingly luddite.
Your desire to defend DG is interesting.
DId you see Belichecks set up? You need additional monitors to be successful these days? lol...
again, i get the ridicule but his set up being the reason he wasnt good is laughable
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In comment 16463504 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 16463503 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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In comment 16463499 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 16463494 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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Working like a true visionary War Room - ( New Window )
you going to share Bills war room during covid? He was working at his kitchen table...
again, the hate for DG is warranted but a lot of you guys just are so over the top with it...
Worst GM in NYG history and a sham of a hiring process!
sure... you can argue that. fair. i dont know what him like every other GM working from home during a pandemic has to become a knock on him but sure lol...
Oh, I don't know, maybe it's the lack of any additional monitors, the presence of only one cell phone, the use of a printed binder rather than electronic evaluations.
I don't think it's crazy to expect just a baseline WFH setup as a minimum. It wouldn't have had to be innovative, just not embarrassingly luddite.
Your desire to defend DG is interesting.
DId you see Belichecks set up? You need additional monitors to be successful these days? lol...
again, i get the ridicule but his set up being the reason he wasnt good is laughable
Belichick has been criticized for YEARS for his poor drafting. I wouldn't point to him as a reason to defend DG's process, setup, results, honestly I wouldn't even use him to defend the choice of blue vs. black ink in a ballpoint pen.
Yes, you need multiple monitors in general, but especially if you're an NFL GM during the fucking NFL draft, particularly if your only screen is a 15" laptop.
The setup isn't the reason why DG was a failure. The setup is a reflection of why DG was a failure: he didn't have a fucking clue how to oversee a modern, functional NFL front office, and that includes having even a basic understanding of what his WFH tech would need to be during the draft.
Look, Dave, you sucked at your job. Defending yourself on a fan message board is almost as embarrassing as your actual job performance.
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In comment 16463532 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16463504 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 16463503 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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In comment 16463499 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 16463494 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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Working like a true visionary War Room - ( New Window )
you going to share Bills war room during covid? He was working at his kitchen table...
again, the hate for DG is warranted but a lot of you guys just are so over the top with it...
Worst GM in NYG history and a sham of a hiring process!
sure... you can argue that. fair. i dont know what him like every other GM working from home during a pandemic has to become a knock on him but sure lol...
Oh, I don't know, maybe it's the lack of any additional monitors, the presence of only one cell phone, the use of a printed binder rather than electronic evaluations.
I don't think it's crazy to expect just a baseline WFH setup as a minimum. It wouldn't have had to be innovative, just not embarrassingly luddite.
Your desire to defend DG is interesting.
DId you see Belichecks set up? You need additional monitors to be successful these days? lol...
again, i get the ridicule but his set up being the reason he wasnt good is laughable
Belichick has been criticized for YEARS for his poor drafting. I wouldn't point to him as a reason to defend DG's process, setup, results, honestly I wouldn't even use him to defend the choice of blue vs. black ink in a ballpoint pen.
Yes, you need multiple monitors in general, but especially if you're an NFL GM during the fucking NFL draft, particularly if your only screen is a 15" laptop.
The setup isn't the reason why DG was a failure. The setup is a reflection of why DG was a failure: he didn't have a fucking clue how to oversee a modern, functional NFL front office, and that includes having even a basic understanding of what his WFH tech would need to be during the draft.
Look, Dave, you sucked at your job. Defending yourself on a fan message board is almost as embarrassing as your actual job performance.
nobody is defending him. im simply pointing out that his lack of monitors isnt indicative of success... let me search and find a shitty GM and his 100 monitors... will you then be quiet about "modern set up"
does it help? sure? Would i have it? yes. monitor count doesnt equal success and it isnt indicative of someone who will be successful. the draft is a crapshoot whether you like it or not. we as fans benefit from hindsight and having NO pressure on us to make the right pick...
It's impossible to know where they would have picked in 2020 (or any other following year) if they had drafted Allen and Eli played all of 2019. The Giants D was 28th against the pass and 20th against the run in 2019. You can bet that would have been better with Allen at edge.
This is something I was actually thinking about the other day. I don't understand how or why "panic" would be a part of this process. Doesn't the preparation that is done months and months and in some cases, years before the draft eliminate a lot of the panic?
I think in Gettleman's case, panic was another word for unprepared.
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In comment 16463504 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 16463503 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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In comment 16463499 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 16463494 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
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Working like a true visionary War Room - ( New Window )
you going to share Bills war room during covid? He was working at his kitchen table...
again, the hate for DG is warranted but a lot of you guys just are so over the top with it...
Worst GM in NYG history and a sham of a hiring process!
sure... you can argue that. fair. i dont know what him like every other GM working from home during a pandemic has to become a knock on him but sure lol...
Oh, I don't know, maybe it's the lack of any additional monitors, the presence of only one cell phone, the use of a printed binder rather than electronic evaluations.
I don't think it's crazy to expect just a baseline WFH setup as a minimum. It wouldn't have had to be innovative, just not embarrassingly luddite.
Your desire to defend DG is interesting.
DId you see Belichecks set up? You need additional monitors to be successful these days? lol...
again, i get the ridicule but his set up being the reason he wasnt good is laughable
His performance as GM is what's laughable. The setup and lack of self awareness points to the bigger problem.
Did any of you dare to put on your webcam during working hours looking like that? Binder to slap lotion--complete disarray.
Lawrence was picked with the same process that Eli Apple was picked with by the previous GM. The Giants scrambling for a choice at the last minute because the players they had targeted and wanted were gone and they had so many cooks in the kitchen and ownership scouting factions that their process was dysfunctional.
Lawrence working to turn himself into the player he has become when he was finally moved to the position that matches his skill set wasn't the result of a smart plan or smart GMing and coaching.
2. taking dex wasnt panic at all...they couldnt make a deal so they stuck to board and took top rated player.... not sure why anyone would try to take credit away. they still selected a good player
3. they were simply trying to move up to select someone they had higher on their board that was there maybe unexpectedly. not sure why this is an issue?
4. DG gets a lot of shit and most of it is warranted but he made picks... sometimes they work out, sometimes they dont. we forget as a fan base about reeses horrible drafts. If JS takes JJM and he blows, is he going to catch the same amount of shit for it? To me, GMs get WAY too much blame... there are certain things you cant measure and certains things that you just dont know how they will transition to NFL. shit happens, busts happen. No clue why we are still on this.
its very possible JS drafts a bust in first round this year... it happens...to even the best GMs
Shut up! You make way tooo much sense to be allowed to post here...
True.
I want to be a reach too.
That was another mistake, after the reach mistake.