At least it shows conviction in a prospect they like. I would be supportive of the move. If the pick doesn’t work out, then Daboll and Schoen won’t be here much longer. If it does, they’ll be here for the foreseeable future.
his swings with. If he wants Maye (and there are indications THATS his guy), then trade whatever you have to, to make it happen.
Schoen is a smart guy. He knows this is his best shot to get a difference maker at the most important position.
If he's right (regardless of what he has to give up), then nobody will care about lost draft picks.
If he's wrong, he's likely gone anyway. Get up to bat, take your swings. Only way to hit a Home Run!!!
have a conviction on a guy, you take him or move up if needed.
the draft is hard and its a gamble, but all you can do is do the homework on guys and make your picks to build the team... if maye busts, i certainly wont blame JS the way the rest of BBI will...
have a conviction on a guy, you take him or move up if needed.
the draft is hard and its a gamble, but all you can do is do the homework on guys and make your picks to build the team... if maye busts, i certainly wont blame JS the way the rest of BBI will...
If Maye busts after a big trade up, Schoen and Daboll will not be here for long. It's a make or break move, the conviction would be refreshing in many ways but its absolutely risky.
If JJM goes 3 and we can get this done for a reasonable package to AZ then I'm all for it. Otherwise, i would prefer we get JJM for pick 6 maybe a bit more. If NE wants JJM they could trade down with us and secure JJM. If I was a Pats fan, I would be ecstatic with that.
If JJM goes 3 and we can get this done for a reasonable package to AZ then I'm all for it. Otherwise, i would prefer we get JJM for pick 6 maybe a bit more. If NE wants JJM they could trade down with us and secure JJM. If I was a Pats fan, I would be ecstatic with that.
Unless the Giants don't have McCarthy rated that high on their list of prospects.
If JJM goes 3 and we can get this done for a reasonable package to AZ then I'm all for it. Otherwise, i would prefer we get JJM for pick 6 maybe a bit more. If NE wants JJM they could trade down with us and secure JJM. If I was a Pats fan, I would be ecstatic with that.
Unless the Giants don't have McCarthy rated that high on their list of prospects.
have a conviction on a guy, you take him or move up if needed.
the draft is hard and its a gamble, but all you can do is do the homework on guys and make your picks to build the team... if maye busts, i certainly wont blame JS the way the rest of BBI will...
If Maye busts after a big trade up, Schoen and Daboll will not be here for long. It's a make or break move, the conviction would be refreshing in many ways but its absolutely risky.
GMs take risks all the time. there is no "safe" pick. all prospects can bust regardless of how highly touted they are. the safe part only exists in peoples minds... the reality is MHJ could bust...
ONE guy (Maye). If that is the case go get him. Their #6 carries a lot of weight. They can offer one of the ELITE WR prospects at 6, which Minn can't. Put a package together, go get the guy.
Said he would be absolutely shocked if the Giants don't trade up for a QB. Here's a exact quote he just sent me 11 minutes ago. He said this is how Schoen's press conference is going to open after it happens
Quote:
And once they do, the post first round presser: "an opportunity presented itself that we determined was in the best interest for the New York Giants"
have a conviction on a guy, you take him or move up if needed.
the draft is hard and its a gamble, but all you can do is do the homework on guys and make your picks to build the team... if maye busts, i certainly wont blame JS the way the rest of BBI will...
If Maye busts after a big trade up, Schoen and Daboll will not be here for long. It's a make or break move, the conviction would be refreshing in many ways but its absolutely risky.
GMs take risks all the time. there is no "safe" pick. all prospects can bust regardless of how highly touted they are. the safe part only exists in peoples minds... the reality is MHJ could bust...
Df course they do. A trade up for Maye at 3 would be like trading MHJ/Nabers/JJM, Leggette/Franklin/penix/mitchell/Benson, and a 2025 1st plus maybe 2nd or 3rd. That's naturally a much bigger risk.
Why not? The Bills traded up for the biggest gamble at QB. The Chiefs traded up for the biggest gamble at QB.
The Chiefs and Bills had solid rosters before trading up, for one thing. They also weren't trading into the top 3 so naturally the cost wasn't as high without future picks that likely will be top 10. Just a couple parts that are different.
have a conviction on a guy, you take him or move up if needed.
the draft is hard and its a gamble, but all you can do is do the homework on guys and make your picks to build the team... if maye busts, i certainly wont blame JS the way the rest of BBI will...
If Maye busts after a big trade up, Schoen and Daboll will not be here for long. It's a make or break move, the conviction would be refreshing in many ways but its absolutely risky.
GMs take risks all the time. there is no "safe" pick. all prospects can bust regardless of how highly touted they are. the safe part only exists in peoples minds... the reality is MHJ could bust...
Df course they do. A trade up for Maye at 3 would be like trading MHJ/Nabers/JJM, Leggette/Franklin/penix/mitchell/Benson, and a 2025 1st plus maybe 2nd or 3rd. That's naturally a much bigger risk.
And those 2025 picks are likely to be top 10, especially if we trade up for Maye.
Why not? The Bills traded up for the biggest gamble at QB. The Chiefs traded up for the biggest gamble at QB.
The Chiefs and Bills had solid rosters before trading up, for one thing. They also weren't trading into the top 3 so naturally the cost wasn't as high without future picks that likely will be top 10. Just a couple parts that are different.
We have no idea of the cost to move up, but that's not what was said. He said you don't trade up for the biggest gamble at QB. The "biggest gambles" of recent times have both worked out quite well.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You don't trade up for the biggest
Why not? The Bills traded up for the biggest gamble at QB. The Chiefs traded up for the biggest gamble at QB.
The Chiefs and Bills had solid rosters before trading up, for one thing. They also weren't trading into the top 3 so naturally the cost wasn't as high without future picks that likely will be top 10. Just a couple parts that are different.
We have no idea of the cost to move up, but that's not what was said. He said you don't trade up for the biggest gamble at QB. The "biggest gambles" of recent times have both worked out quite well.
Yeah, but they were much less of gambles because they were picked at 7 and 10 respectively by teams with solid rosters. It changes the dynamic.
How do you determine which of the top 4 is the biggest gamble?
The one who regressed from last season and has serious accuracy concerns. The guy who everyone makes excuses for with his poor play even though he had plenty of weapons.
How do you determine which of the top 4 is the biggest gamble?
The one who regressed from last season and has serious accuracy concerns. The guy who everyone makes excuses for with his poor play even though he had plenty of weapons.
I would add his questionable play when under pressure and when moving beyond his first read to this..
could happen, but I hope it doesn't. I'm happy taking any of the QBs at #6, but the most that I would give up for any of them is #70. Maye and JJM have too many holes and require too much projection to justify the huge amount of draft capital required to move up to #3 or #4 for either of them. They'd both not only have to be better than who we could take at #6, but also whoever we could have taken with each of the draft picks we traded to get them. It's better to stay at #6 or trade down if someone offers us a lot of draft picks. I'm also concerned that trading up for either would be a panic move by Schoen to try and compensate for his disastrous decision to resign Jones to that ridiculous contract.
could happen, but I hope it doesn't. I'm happy taking any of the QBs at #6, but the most that I would give up for any of them is #70. Maye and JJM have too many holes and require too much projection to justify the huge amount of draft capital required to move up to #3 or #4 for either of them. They'd both not only have to be better than who we could take at #6, but also whoever we could have taken with each of the draft picks we traded to get them. It's better to stay at #6 or trade down if someone offers us a lot of draft picks. I'm also concerned that trading up for either would be a panic move by Schoen to try and compensate for his disastrous decision to resign Jones to that ridiculous contract.
I'm with you with the exception being if AZ loves MHJ and Nabers equally and is willing to make a deal for 6 for no more than 2025 2nd and 3rd or 4th. I'd go that far and no further personally.
is curious is that many of the same people who say Maye didn't play that well in 2023 because of a bad OL and not having enough offensive weapons rightly reject those some excuses when they are made in defense of Jones.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
could happen, but I hope it doesn't. I'm happy taking any of the QBs at #6, but the most that I would give up for any of them is #70. Maye and JJM have too many holes and require too much projection to justify the huge amount of draft capital required to move up to #3 or #4 for either of them. They'd both not only have to be better than who we could take at #6, but also whoever we could have taken with each of the draft picks we traded to get them. It's better to stay at #6 or trade down if someone offers us a lot of draft picks. I'm also concerned that trading up for either would be a panic move by Schoen to try and compensate for his disastrous decision to resign Jones to that ridiculous contract.
I'm with you with the exception being if AZ loves MHJ and Nabers equally and is willing to make a deal for 6 for no more than 2025 2nd and 3rd or 4th. I'd go that far and no further personally.
I don't think we can get from #6 to #4 without including our #1 next year in whatever trade package we offer.
The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
...Why not? The Bills traded up for the biggest gamble at QB. The Chiefs traded up for the biggest gamble at QB.
The JAllen - Maye analog is almost too spot on, as in Schoen and Dabol re-creating history, so one is inclined to bet against it, as in too perfect, everyone sees it so it won't happen. Or not. I do like the shape of Schoen's jib.
[Rick, did you watch yesterday? Opening 15 and last 25 minutes were gangbusters!]
The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
They want three first round picks to move from #6 to #4?
RE: RE: From what I've heard the holdup is the AZ GM
The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
They want three first round picks to move from #6 to #4?
This isn't based on insiders info, just news reports. Could be true, could not be. If AZ wants that much, then they just have NHJ graded in a tier above Nabers.
is curious is that many of the same people who say Maye didn't play that well in 2023 because of a bad OL and not having enough offensive weapons rightly reject those some excuses when they are made in defense of Jones.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
How did Maye not elevate his team? He took over a 6 win team and they won 9 games and 8 games. Only the 2nd 9+ win season that UNC has had in the last 25 years. If they didn't have the 102nd ranked defense they would've won more games.
He took over a team with a worse record & had the same record in his last 2 college seasons as Eli had in his last 2 seasons. We've constantly heard how Eli elevated Ole Miss. So what's the difference?
his swings with. If he wants Maye (and there are indications THATS his guy), then trade whatever you have to, to make it happen.
Schoen is a smart guy. He knows this is his best shot to get a difference maker at the most important position.
If he's right (regardless of what he has to give up), then nobody will care about lost draft picks.
If he's wrong, he's likely gone anyway. Get up to bat, take your swings. Only way to hit a Home Run!!!
You can't hit a homerun without a big swing, but you can also strick out, missing that double down the line that clears the bases. The NFL is full of GMs who managed to screw up a golden opportunity in the draft.
The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
This doesn't make much sense to me. If the Pats love McCarthy they can take him at 3. If Arizona wants a trade down and is going to wind up at 6 anyway, they can deal directly with the Giants. Presumably the Giants would know that New England is set on McCarthy and could move to 4 knowing they get Maye or Daniels there.
...Why not? The Bills traded up for the biggest gamble at QB. The Chiefs traded up for the biggest gamble at QB.
The JAllen - Maye analog is almost too spot on, as in Schoen and Dabol re-creating history, so one is inclined to bet against it, as in too perfect, everyone sees it so it won't happen. Or not. I do like the shape of Schoen's jib.
[Rick, did you watch yesterday? Opening 15 and last 25 minutes were gangbusters!]
Bruuhhh I thought my heart was gonna come out of my chest yesterday lol. What a fucking game. I'm so pissed we aren't heading back to England with a lead. We took the foot off the gas and let them get back into it. But I figured it'd be tightly contested. We've never won in the Etihad. Hopefully that changes this year.
The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
I'm not sure about the Cardinals part in this or the Pats moving back up. That first sentence though. I've heard almost identical.
RE: RE: From what I've heard the holdup is the AZ GM
The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
I'm not sure about the Cardinals part in this or the Pats moving back up. That first sentence though. I've heard almost identical.
If NE does want JJM (which makes a lot of sense to me as I believe he will do great anywhere he goes) then trading with us is the move vs with Minnesota unless Minnesota was able to first trade up with LAC then NE. NE could make a real franchise transforming move if JJM pans out and they get a king's ransom for moving down. Maybe it works out for both teams who knows, but I would really love that move if I was a Pats fan (God forbid).
is curious is that many of the same people who say Maye didn't play that well in 2023 because of a bad OL and not having enough offensive weapons rightly reject those some excuses when they are made in defense of Jones.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
How did Maye not elevate his team? He took over a 6 win team and they won 9 games and 8 games. Only the 2nd 9+ win season that UNC has had in the last 25 years. If they didn't have the 102nd ranked defense they would've won more games.
He took over a team with a worse record & had the same record in his last 2 college seasons as Eli had in his last 2 seasons. We've constantly heard how Eli elevated Ole Miss. So what's the difference?
I thought he was much better in 2022 than in 2023. He's good enough to take #6, especially given the importance of the position. But I wouldn't stake my job and maybe career as a GM to move up to #3 or #4 to get him given the huge amount of draft capital required to do so. This is the "formula:"
Maye > < who we could take at #6 plus all the players we could take with the picks we traded to get him. I have too many doubts that the correct answer is "<" to justify giving up that amount of draft capital. Others feel differently, which is fine.
The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
Come on, you don't believe this, do you? If the Pats want JJ, they take him at 3. Or a 3 way trade would have to be done before the Pats pick. And, those really don't happen in the NFL.
RE: RE: RE: From what I've heard the holdup is the AZ GM
The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
I'm not sure about the Cardinals part in this or the Pats moving back up. That first sentence though. I've heard almost identical.
If NE does want JJM (which makes a lot of sense to me as I believe he will do great anywhere he goes) then trading with us is the move vs with Minnesota unless Minnesota was able to first trade up with LAC then NE. NE could make a real franchise transforming move if JJM pans out and they get a king's ransom for moving down. Maybe it works out for both teams who knows, but I would really love that move if I was a Pats fan (God forbid).
I don't know anything about the Pats part or who they want. I've heard for close to a month that they have framework of a deal in place if the draft falls a certain way.
is curious is that many of the same people who say Maye didn't play that well in 2023 because of a bad OL and not having enough offensive weapons rightly reject those some excuses when they are made in defense of Jones.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
How did Maye not elevate his team? He took over a 6 win team and they won 9 games and 8 games. Only the 2nd 9+ win season that UNC has had in the last 25 years. If they didn't have the 102nd ranked defense they would've won more games.
He took over a team with a worse record & had the same record in his last 2 college seasons as Eli had in his last 2 seasons. We've constantly heard how Eli elevated Ole Miss. So what's the difference?
I thought he was much better in 2022 than in 2023. He's good enough to take #6, especially given the importance of the position. But I wouldn't stake my job and maybe career as a GM to move up to #3 or #4 to get him given the huge amount of draft capital required to do so. This is the "formula:"
Maye > < who we could take at #6 plus all the players we could take with the picks we traded to get him. I have too many doubts that the correct answer is "<" to justify giving up that amount of draft capital. Others feel differently, which is fine.
That's the thing. We have no idea the compensation it'll take to move to 3 or 4.
If there's a QB you like enough to take at 6 you obviously think he's a franchise QB. Are you really willing to miss out on a franchise QB over some 2nd or 3rd round picks?
is curious is that many of the same people who say Maye didn't play that well in 2023 because of a bad OL and not having enough offensive weapons rightly reject those some excuses when they are made in defense of Jones.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
How did Maye not elevate his team? He took over a 6 win team and they won 9 games and 8 games. Only the 2nd 9+ win season that UNC has had in the last 25 years. If they didn't have the 102nd ranked defense they would've won more games.
He took over a team with a worse record & had the same record in his last 2 college seasons as Eli had in his last 2 seasons. We've constantly heard how Eli elevated Ole Miss. So what's the difference?
I thought he was much better in 2022 than in 2023. He's good enough to take #6, especially given the importance of the position. But I wouldn't stake my job and maybe career as a GM to move up to #3 or #4 to get him given the huge amount of draft capital required to do so. This is the "formula:"
Maye > < who we could take at #6 plus all the players we could take with the picks we traded to get him. I have too many doubts that the correct answer is "<" to justify giving up that amount of draft capital. Others feel differently, which is fine.
That's the thing. We have no idea the compensation it'll take to move to 3 or 4.
If there's a QB you like enough to take at 6 you obviously think he's a franchise QB. Are you really willing to miss out on a franchise QB over some 2nd or 3rd round picks?
Arizona apparently wants three #1 picks to go from #6 to #4. Even if they can be talked down from that, we aren't getting to #4 for less than #47, #70, and our #1 next year IMO.
A Boston reporter also said that NE wants at least three #1 picks to move down from #3 to #6. That would require us to give up our #1 this year and in 2025 and 2026. And maybe more. For Drake Maye. Insane.
And if NE really thinks JJM is the next TB12, why would they trade with anyone? The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a QB and can take one at your draft position. Trading with us means they could miss out on getting JJM. Arizona and San Diego don't have to trade with them, or guess what, could demand three #1 picks to do so.
is curious is that many of the same people who say Maye didn't play that well in 2023 because of a bad OL and not having enough offensive weapons rightly reject those some excuses when they are made in defense of Jones.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
How did Maye not elevate his team? He took over a 6 win team and they won 9 games and 8 games. Only the 2nd 9+ win season that UNC has had in the last 25 years. If they didn't have the 102nd ranked defense they would've won more games.
He took over a team with a worse record & had the same record in his last 2 college seasons as Eli had in his last 2 seasons. We've constantly heard how Eli elevated Ole Miss. So what's the difference?
I thought he was much better in 2022 than in 2023. He's good enough to take #6, especially given the importance of the position. But I wouldn't stake my job and maybe career as a GM to move up to #3 or #4 to get him given the huge amount of draft capital required to do so. This is the "formula:"
Maye > < who we could take at #6 plus all the players we could take with the picks we traded to get him. I have too many doubts that the correct answer is "<" to justify giving up that amount of draft capital. Others feel differently, which is fine.
That's the thing. We have no idea the compensation it'll take to move to 3 or 4.
If there's a QB you like enough to take at 6 you obviously think he's a franchise QB. Are you really willing to miss out on a franchise QB over some 2nd or 3rd round picks?
Arizona apparently wants three #1 picks to go from #6 to #4. Even if they can be talked down from that, we aren't getting to #4 for less than #47, #70, and our #1 next year IMO.
A Boston reporter also said that NE wants at least three #1 picks to move down from #3 to #6. That would require us to give up our #1 this year and in 2025 and 2026. And maybe more. For Drake Maye. Insane.
And if NE really thinks JJM is the next TB12, why would they trade with anyone? The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a QB and can take one at your draft position. Trading with us means they could miss out on getting JJM. Arizona and San Diego don't have to trade with them, or guess what, could demand three #1 picks to do so.
I believe the article about 3 1stz for pick 4 that you're referring to was in reference to thr Vikings trading up and it specifically stated the trade package would be less for pick 6. I still stand by what I've said: if AZ has MHJ and Nabers in the same tier then they will trade with us for pick swap, 2025 2nd and 3rd at the most. If they don't have MHJ and Nabers in the same tier, then they will want that 2025 1st.
Said he would be absolutely shocked if the Giants don't trade up for a QB. Here's a exact quote he just sent me 11 minutes ago. He said this is how Schoen's press conference is going to open after it happens
Quote:
And once they do, the post first round presser: "an opportunity presented itself that we determined was in the best interest for the New York Giants"
Love to hear. If Schoen has a strong conviction, just get your QB. If that QB is a bust, Schoen will probably never be a GM in the NFL. If that QB is a jackpot, then he is a genius.
Just like Brandon Bean said.
"“If [trading up for Allen] didn’t work out, I wouldn’t be here anyway,” Beane said. “If it does work out, then who gives a (bleep)?”"
Unless he needs to get to pick 4 and can do it for 2025 2nd and 3rd or less, I agree.
Make sure you have a strong IPA poured when the Pats are on the clock.
Quote:
IMO, the intrigue behind at 3 with the Pats on the clock. I think Caleb Daniels go 1-2.
Make sure you have a strong IPA poured when the Pats are on the clock.
Haha. Oh I will. I’ll be in cousin’s man cave in Maine with some Stoneface flowing.
Schoen is a smart guy. He knows this is his best shot to get a difference maker at the most important position.
If he's right (regardless of what he has to give up), then nobody will care about lost draft picks.
If he's wrong, he's likely gone anyway. Get up to bat, take your swings. Only way to hit a Home Run!!!
Quote:
IMO, the intrigue behind at 3 with the Pats on the clock. I think Caleb Daniels go 1-2.
Make sure you have a strong IPA poured when the Pats are on the clock.
LOL.
I suggest "Ghost in the Machine" from Parish Brewing.
Link - ( New Window )
have a conviction on a guy, you take him or move up if needed.
the draft is hard and its a gamble, but all you can do is do the homework on guys and make your picks to build the team... if maye busts, i certainly wont blame JS the way the rest of BBI will...
have a conviction on a guy, you take him or move up if needed.
the draft is hard and its a gamble, but all you can do is do the homework on guys and make your picks to build the team... if maye busts, i certainly wont blame JS the way the rest of BBI will...
If Maye busts after a big trade up, Schoen and Daboll will not be here for long. It's a make or break move, the conviction would be refreshing in many ways but its absolutely risky.
If JJM goes 3 and we can get this done for a reasonable package to AZ then I'm all for it. Otherwise, i would prefer we get JJM for pick 6 maybe a bit more. If NE wants JJM they could trade down with us and secure JJM. If I was a Pats fan, I would be ecstatic with that.
Quote:
and JJM is number 2.
If JJM goes 3 and we can get this done for a reasonable package to AZ then I'm all for it. Otherwise, i would prefer we get JJM for pick 6 maybe a bit more. If NE wants JJM they could trade down with us and secure JJM. If I was a Pats fan, I would be ecstatic with that.
Unless the Giants don't have McCarthy rated that high on their list of prospects.
Quote:
In comment 16463715 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
and JJM is number 2.
If JJM goes 3 and we can get this done for a reasonable package to AZ then I'm all for it. Otherwise, i would prefer we get JJM for pick 6 maybe a bit more. If NE wants JJM they could trade down with us and secure JJM. If I was a Pats fan, I would be ecstatic with that.
Unless the Giants don't have McCarthy rated that high on their list of prospects.
That's just my personal preferences.
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i like it.
have a conviction on a guy, you take him or move up if needed.
the draft is hard and its a gamble, but all you can do is do the homework on guys and make your picks to build the team... if maye busts, i certainly wont blame JS the way the rest of BBI will...
If Maye busts after a big trade up, Schoen and Daboll will not be here for long. It's a make or break move, the conviction would be refreshing in many ways but its absolutely risky.
GMs take risks all the time. there is no "safe" pick. all prospects can bust regardless of how highly touted they are. the safe part only exists in peoples minds... the reality is MHJ could bust...
Of course, this assumes Washington takes Daniels.
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IMO, the intrigue behind at 3 with the Pats on the clock. I think Caleb Daniels go 1-2.
Make sure you have a strong IPA poured when the Pats are on the clock.
I'm planning on a Belgian Quad. 10.2%
lol
There is 2025 draft capital that can, and probably would be used in a trade up.
How do you determine which of the top 4 is the biggest gamble?
Why not? The Bills traded up for the biggest gamble at QB. The Chiefs traded up for the biggest gamble at QB.
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In comment 16463707 BleedBlue said:
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i like it.
have a conviction on a guy, you take him or move up if needed.
the draft is hard and its a gamble, but all you can do is do the homework on guys and make your picks to build the team... if maye busts, i certainly wont blame JS the way the rest of BBI will...
If Maye busts after a big trade up, Schoen and Daboll will not be here for long. It's a make or break move, the conviction would be refreshing in many ways but its absolutely risky.
GMs take risks all the time. there is no "safe" pick. all prospects can bust regardless of how highly touted they are. the safe part only exists in peoples minds... the reality is MHJ could bust...
Df course they do. A trade up for Maye at 3 would be like trading MHJ/Nabers/JJM, Leggette/Franklin/penix/mitchell/Benson, and a 2025 1st plus maybe 2nd or 3rd. That's naturally a much bigger risk.
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gamble of the top 4 QBs.
Why not? The Bills traded up for the biggest gamble at QB. The Chiefs traded up for the biggest gamble at QB.
The Chiefs and Bills had solid rosters before trading up, for one thing. They also weren't trading into the top 3 so naturally the cost wasn't as high without future picks that likely will be top 10. Just a couple parts that are different.
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In comment 16463710 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16463707 BleedBlue said:
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i like it.
have a conviction on a guy, you take him or move up if needed.
the draft is hard and its a gamble, but all you can do is do the homework on guys and make your picks to build the team... if maye busts, i certainly wont blame JS the way the rest of BBI will...
If Maye busts after a big trade up, Schoen and Daboll will not be here for long. It's a make or break move, the conviction would be refreshing in many ways but its absolutely risky.
GMs take risks all the time. there is no "safe" pick. all prospects can bust regardless of how highly touted they are. the safe part only exists in peoples minds... the reality is MHJ could bust...
Df course they do. A trade up for Maye at 3 would be like trading MHJ/Nabers/JJM, Leggette/Franklin/penix/mitchell/Benson, and a 2025 1st plus maybe 2nd or 3rd. That's naturally a much bigger risk.
And those 2025 picks are likely to be top 10, especially if we trade up for Maye.
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In comment 16463787 Doubledeuce22 said:
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gamble of the top 4 QBs.
Why not? The Bills traded up for the biggest gamble at QB. The Chiefs traded up for the biggest gamble at QB.
The Chiefs and Bills had solid rosters before trading up, for one thing. They also weren't trading into the top 3 so naturally the cost wasn't as high without future picks that likely will be top 10. Just a couple parts that are different.
We have no idea of the cost to move up, but that's not what was said. He said you don't trade up for the biggest gamble at QB. The "biggest gambles" of recent times have both worked out quite well.
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In comment 16463791 Big Rick in FL said:
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In comment 16463787 Doubledeuce22 said:
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gamble of the top 4 QBs.
Why not? The Bills traded up for the biggest gamble at QB. The Chiefs traded up for the biggest gamble at QB.
The Chiefs and Bills had solid rosters before trading up, for one thing. They also weren't trading into the top 3 so naturally the cost wasn't as high without future picks that likely will be top 10. Just a couple parts that are different.
We have no idea of the cost to move up, but that's not what was said. He said you don't trade up for the biggest gamble at QB. The "biggest gambles" of recent times have both worked out quite well.
Yeah, but they were much less of gambles because they were picked at 7 and 10 respectively by teams with solid rosters. It changes the dynamic.
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gamble of the top 4 QBs.
How do you determine which of the top 4 is the biggest gamble?
The one who regressed from last season and has serious accuracy concerns. The guy who everyone makes excuses for with his poor play even though he had plenty of weapons.
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In comment 16463787 Doubledeuce22 said:
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gamble of the top 4 QBs.
How do you determine which of the top 4 is the biggest gamble?
The one who regressed from last season and has serious accuracy concerns. The guy who everyone makes excuses for with his poor play even though he had plenty of weapons.
I would add his questionable play when under pressure and when moving beyond his first read to this..
I'm with you with the exception being if AZ loves MHJ and Nabers equally and is willing to make a deal for 6 for no more than 2025 2nd and 3rd or 4th. I'd go that far and no further personally.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
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could happen, but I hope it doesn't. I'm happy taking any of the QBs at #6, but the most that I would give up for any of them is #70. Maye and JJM have too many holes and require too much projection to justify the huge amount of draft capital required to move up to #3 or #4 for either of them. They'd both not only have to be better than who we could take at #6, but also whoever we could have taken with each of the draft picks we traded to get them. It's better to stay at #6 or trade down if someone offers us a lot of draft picks. I'm also concerned that trading up for either would be a panic move by Schoen to try and compensate for his disastrous decision to resign Jones to that ridiculous contract.
I'm with you with the exception being if AZ loves MHJ and Nabers equally and is willing to make a deal for 6 for no more than 2025 2nd and 3rd or 4th. I'd go that far and no further personally.
I don't think we can get from #6 to #4 without including our #1 next year in whatever trade package we offer.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
The JAllen - Maye analog is almost too spot on, as in Schoen and Dabol re-creating history, so one is inclined to bet against it, as in too perfect, everyone sees it so it won't happen. Or not. I do like the shape of Schoen's jib.
[Rick, did you watch yesterday? Opening 15 and last 25 minutes were gangbusters!]
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
They want three first round picks to move from #6 to #4?
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The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
They want three first round picks to move from #6 to #4?
This isn't based on insiders info, just news reports. Could be true, could not be. If AZ wants that much, then they just have NHJ graded in a tier above Nabers.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
How did Maye not elevate his team? He took over a 6 win team and they won 9 games and 8 games. Only the 2nd 9+ win season that UNC has had in the last 25 years. If they didn't have the 102nd ranked defense they would've won more games.
He took over a team with a worse record & had the same record in his last 2 college seasons as Eli had in his last 2 seasons. We've constantly heard how Eli elevated Ole Miss. So what's the difference?
Schoen is a smart guy. He knows this is his best shot to get a difference maker at the most important position.
If he's right (regardless of what he has to give up), then nobody will care about lost draft picks.
If he's wrong, he's likely gone anyway. Get up to bat, take your swings. Only way to hit a Home Run!!!
You can't hit a homerun without a big swing, but you can also strick out, missing that double down the line that clears the bases. The NFL is full of GMs who managed to screw up a golden opportunity in the draft.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
This doesn't make much sense to me. If the Pats love McCarthy they can take him at 3. If Arizona wants a trade down and is going to wind up at 6 anyway, they can deal directly with the Giants. Presumably the Giants would know that New England is set on McCarthy and could move to 4 knowing they get Maye or Daniels there.
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...Why not? The Bills traded up for the biggest gamble at QB. The Chiefs traded up for the biggest gamble at QB.
The JAllen - Maye analog is almost too spot on, as in Schoen and Dabol re-creating history, so one is inclined to bet against it, as in too perfect, everyone sees it so it won't happen. Or not. I do like the shape of Schoen's jib.
[Rick, did you watch yesterday? Opening 15 and last 25 minutes were gangbusters!]
Bruuhhh I thought my heart was gonna come out of my chest yesterday lol. What a fucking game. I'm so pissed we aren't heading back to England with a lead. We took the foot off the gas and let them get back into it. But I figured it'd be tightly contested. We've never won in the Etihad. Hopefully that changes this year.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
I'm not sure about the Cardinals part in this or the Pats moving back up. That first sentence though. I've heard almost identical.
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The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
I'm not sure about the Cardinals part in this or the Pats moving back up. That first sentence though. I've heard almost identical.
If NE does want JJM (which makes a lot of sense to me as I believe he will do great anywhere he goes) then trading with us is the move vs with Minnesota unless Minnesota was able to first trade up with LAC then NE. NE could make a real franchise transforming move if JJM pans out and they get a king's ransom for moving down. Maybe it works out for both teams who knows, but I would really love that move if I was a Pats fan (God forbid).
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is curious is that many of the same people who say Maye didn't play that well in 2023 because of a bad OL and not having enough offensive weapons rightly reject those some excuses when they are made in defense of Jones.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
How did Maye not elevate his team? He took over a 6 win team and they won 9 games and 8 games. Only the 2nd 9+ win season that UNC has had in the last 25 years. If they didn't have the 102nd ranked defense they would've won more games.
He took over a team with a worse record & had the same record in his last 2 college seasons as Eli had in his last 2 seasons. We've constantly heard how Eli elevated Ole Miss. So what's the difference?
I thought he was much better in 2022 than in 2023. He's good enough to take #6, especially given the importance of the position. But I wouldn't stake my job and maybe career as a GM to move up to #3 or #4 to get him given the huge amount of draft capital required to do so. This is the "formula:"
Maye > < who we could take at #6 plus all the players we could take with the picks we traded to get him. I have too many doubts that the correct answer is "<" to justify giving up that amount of draft capital. Others feel differently, which is fine.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
Come on, you don't believe this, do you? If the Pats want JJ, they take him at 3. Or a 3 way trade would have to be done before the Pats pick. And, those really don't happen in the NFL.
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In comment 16463829 dd in Mass said:
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The Giants and the Pats have the basics of a deal worked out. The Pats don't want to lose JJM, who ownership think is the next TB12. So they want to move back up to #4. Right now, AZ wants 3 1st round picks which is ridiculous.
If a deal can't be worked out with AZ then NE will stay at 3 and take JJM.
I'm not sure about the Cardinals part in this or the Pats moving back up. That first sentence though. I've heard almost identical.
If NE does want JJM (which makes a lot of sense to me as I believe he will do great anywhere he goes) then trading with us is the move vs with Minnesota unless Minnesota was able to first trade up with LAC then NE. NE could make a real franchise transforming move if JJM pans out and they get a king's ransom for moving down. Maybe it works out for both teams who knows, but I would really love that move if I was a Pats fan (God forbid).
I don't know anything about the Pats part or who they want. I've heard for close to a month that they have framework of a deal in place if the draft falls a certain way.
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In comment 16463824 AcidTest said:
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is curious is that many of the same people who say Maye didn't play that well in 2023 because of a bad OL and not having enough offensive weapons rightly reject those some excuses when they are made in defense of Jones.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
How did Maye not elevate his team? He took over a 6 win team and they won 9 games and 8 games. Only the 2nd 9+ win season that UNC has had in the last 25 years. If they didn't have the 102nd ranked defense they would've won more games.
He took over a team with a worse record & had the same record in his last 2 college seasons as Eli had in his last 2 seasons. We've constantly heard how Eli elevated Ole Miss. So what's the difference?
I thought he was much better in 2022 than in 2023. He's good enough to take #6, especially given the importance of the position. But I wouldn't stake my job and maybe career as a GM to move up to #3 or #4 to get him given the huge amount of draft capital required to do so. This is the "formula:"
Maye > < who we could take at #6 plus all the players we could take with the picks we traded to get him. I have too many doubts that the correct answer is "<" to justify giving up that amount of draft capital. Others feel differently, which is fine.
That's the thing. We have no idea the compensation it'll take to move to 3 or 4.
If there's a QB you like enough to take at 6 you obviously think he's a franchise QB. Are you really willing to miss out on a franchise QB over some 2nd or 3rd round picks?
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In comment 16463854 Big Rick in FL said:
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In comment 16463824 AcidTest said:
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is curious is that many of the same people who say Maye didn't play that well in 2023 because of a bad OL and not having enough offensive weapons rightly reject those some excuses when they are made in defense of Jones.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
How did Maye not elevate his team? He took over a 6 win team and they won 9 games and 8 games. Only the 2nd 9+ win season that UNC has had in the last 25 years. If they didn't have the 102nd ranked defense they would've won more games.
He took over a team with a worse record & had the same record in his last 2 college seasons as Eli had in his last 2 seasons. We've constantly heard how Eli elevated Ole Miss. So what's the difference?
I thought he was much better in 2022 than in 2023. He's good enough to take #6, especially given the importance of the position. But I wouldn't stake my job and maybe career as a GM to move up to #3 or #4 to get him given the huge amount of draft capital required to do so. This is the "formula:"
Maye > < who we could take at #6 plus all the players we could take with the picks we traded to get him. I have too many doubts that the correct answer is "<" to justify giving up that amount of draft capital. Others feel differently, which is fine.
That's the thing. We have no idea the compensation it'll take to move to 3 or 4.
If there's a QB you like enough to take at 6 you obviously think he's a franchise QB. Are you really willing to miss out on a franchise QB over some 2nd or 3rd round picks?
Arizona apparently wants three #1 picks to go from #6 to #4. Even if they can be talked down from that, we aren't getting to #4 for less than #47, #70, and our #1 next year IMO.
A Boston reporter also said that NE wants at least three #1 picks to move down from #3 to #6. That would require us to give up our #1 this year and in 2025 and 2026. And maybe more. For Drake Maye. Insane.
And if NE really thinks JJM is the next TB12, why would they trade with anyone? The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a QB and can take one at your draft position. Trading with us means they could miss out on getting JJM. Arizona and San Diego don't have to trade with them, or guess what, could demand three #1 picks to do so.
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In comment 16463894 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16463854 Big Rick in FL said:
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In comment 16463824 AcidTest said:
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is curious is that many of the same people who say Maye didn't play that well in 2023 because of a bad OL and not having enough offensive weapons rightly reject those some excuses when they are made in defense of Jones.
Franchise QBs elevate their teams. They don't make excuses. They make everyone around them better and find a way to win regardless of the state of the rest of the team. A QB who needs everything around them to be near perfect to perform at their highest level is not a franchise QB. They are a game manager.
Maye and JJM might be more than that, which is why I'm willing to draft either at #6. But the risk they are not is real, which is why I oppose moving up for either, unless it's to #5 for #70.
How did Maye not elevate his team? He took over a 6 win team and they won 9 games and 8 games. Only the 2nd 9+ win season that UNC has had in the last 25 years. If they didn't have the 102nd ranked defense they would've won more games.
He took over a team with a worse record & had the same record in his last 2 college seasons as Eli had in his last 2 seasons. We've constantly heard how Eli elevated Ole Miss. So what's the difference?
I thought he was much better in 2022 than in 2023. He's good enough to take #6, especially given the importance of the position. But I wouldn't stake my job and maybe career as a GM to move up to #3 or #4 to get him given the huge amount of draft capital required to do so. This is the "formula:"
Maye > < who we could take at #6 plus all the players we could take with the picks we traded to get him. I have too many doubts that the correct answer is "<" to justify giving up that amount of draft capital. Others feel differently, which is fine.
That's the thing. We have no idea the compensation it'll take to move to 3 or 4.
If there's a QB you like enough to take at 6 you obviously think he's a franchise QB. Are you really willing to miss out on a franchise QB over some 2nd or 3rd round picks?
Arizona apparently wants three #1 picks to go from #6 to #4. Even if they can be talked down from that, we aren't getting to #4 for less than #47, #70, and our #1 next year IMO.
A Boston reporter also said that NE wants at least three #1 picks to move down from #3 to #6. That would require us to give up our #1 this year and in 2025 and 2026. And maybe more. For Drake Maye. Insane.
And if NE really thinks JJM is the next TB12, why would they trade with anyone? The first rule of drafting is that you never trade down if you need a QB and can take one at your draft position. Trading with us means they could miss out on getting JJM. Arizona and San Diego don't have to trade with them, or guess what, could demand three #1 picks to do so.
I believe the article about 3 1stz for pick 4 that you're referring to was in reference to thr Vikings trading up and it specifically stated the trade package would be less for pick 6. I still stand by what I've said: if AZ has MHJ and Nabers in the same tier then they will trade with us for pick swap, 2025 2nd and 3rd at the most. If they don't have MHJ and Nabers in the same tier, then they will want that 2025 1st.
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And once they do, the post first round presser: "an opportunity presented itself that we determined was in the best interest for the New York Giants"
Love to hear. If Schoen has a strong conviction, just get your QB. If that QB is a bust, Schoen will probably never be a GM in the NFL. If that QB is a jackpot, then he is a genius.
Just like Brandon Bean said.
"“If [trading up for Allen] didn’t work out, I wouldn’t be here anyway,” Beane said. “If it does work out, then who gives a (bleep)?”"
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IMO, the intrigue behind at 3 with the Pats on the clock. I think Caleb Daniels go 1-2.
Make sure you have a strong IPA poured when the Pats are on the clock.
Don't waster your time with an IPA - vodka on the rocks....