Lombardi: Told very reliability that NYG loves Maye

I've said a few times, I heard early on they really liked Williams and Maye.

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Drake does scream Giants QB to me...the sort of dude who John would want a daughter of his to bring home/a lot of Eli characteristics. That said, I doubt Lombardi has much intel in the Giants FO.

"He also said that Daniel Jones is not a complete bust, just over drafted. In fact, he says Jones had better college tape than some of the QBs in the draft this year."

I made this argument this past week, but some don't want to hear it. You may not like Jones based on what he has done in the NFL, but he was well regarded as a prospect back in 2019.

Part Herbert

"If they liked Jones, they wouldn't be traveling all over the country visiting these guys and scheduling dinners. Russell Wilson visit showed this as well."

Another point that some on the site had problems recognizing.

and this and that, it's still extremely likely that the top 3 teams will stand pat and draft Caleb, Daniels and Maye in that order.

Talks as if he would get any intel......my dog is more in the know.

He seems to get his Intel from our threads

In comment 16464047 Eric from BBI said:

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"If they liked Jones, they wouldn't be traveling all over the country visiting these guys and scheduling dinners. Russell Wilson visit showed this as well." Another point that some on the site had problems recognizing.

'Some' being the ones who in 2038 will be arguing on this site-provided the site is still around/we're all still around-that Jones could have made it here if only he had All Pros @ every position. Of course Jack Stroud will be living in Canton, OH @ that time, desperately waiting for the day Jones is inducted into the HOF.

Most likely will be a Giant.

And this is the right move.

Comparing anyone to Allen is a dangerous game - his improvement at the NFL level is something you don't often see.

I think Maye is a little scary, but it is past due that Giants try something. This is welcome news.

Assuming Williams and Daniels go 1,2...the draft for giants starts at 2.

If pats aren't in love with Maye, they could pick up a nice haul from us. But what if they fear missing out on McCarthy? Well then they could possibly move right back up with cardinals to 4 to take him.

I am not buying at all that the pats are engaging in any trade scenario that ultimately fails to net them a top 6 pick. That's one major advantage the giants hold over vikings. The scenarios are cleaner and all teams involved generally stay within blue chip prospect zone.

I think the Giants are going to do their damn best to move up to take a QB. There's just too much smoke. Hell, even Schwartz-whose some of his articles seem like Mara edict-has us taking JJM.

Maye’s 2022 tape was better than anything Allen put on film in college. Plus the size and the arm, you can see why Schoen and Daboll would like the guy.

Have heard a lot of “something about him” too from various podcasts. People like his demeanor.

In comment 16464043 Eric from BBI said:

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"He also said that Daniel Jones is not a complete bust, just over drafted. In fact, he says Jones had better college tape than some of the QBs in the draft this year." I made this argument this past week, but some don't want to hear it. You may not like Jones based on what he has done in the NFL, but he was well regarded as a prospect back in 2019.

I'll bite. Which QBs in particular?

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He also said that Daniel Jones is not a complete bust, just over drafted. In fact, he says Jones had better college tape than some of the QBs in the draft this year.

If anyone knows how to scout QB's it's Lombardi. After all, he drafted the great Johnny Manziel

Moreover, Maye would probably benefit from sitting a year, and would be less likely to get hurt as the OL rounds into form.

In comment 16464062 ryanmkeane said:

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Maye’s 2022 tape was better than anything Allen put on film in college. Plus the size and the arm, you can see why Schoen and Daboll would like the guy. Have heard a lot of “something about him” too from various podcasts. People like his demeanor.

Maye was terrific in 2022. Too many people are not giving 2022 enough weight.

Allen was all over the place in 2016 and 2017. He was clearly - to me - a great talent playing with inferior teammates. He made some of dumbest throws I have ever seen and some of the most amazing. And when he ran it was like watching Gronk.

IMO Jones was a better pro prospect than Nix and Penix by a little and he’s similar to McCarthy. Folks might have preferred Jones to McCarthy based on size. That being said, Maye is infinitely a better prospect than Jones was.

Maye! I am fine with JJM at 6 but Maye is the guy I want us to get.

I am starting to wonder if some talk a few weeks back about Neal and Ojulari could still be true as far as moving up..

And admittedly haven't watched every bit of Maye tape out there but he's my least favorite of the four. Sy 56's take on him vs JJ was pretty eye opening in regards to how much his game breaks down when he's under pressure. JJ's stats under pressure were really impressive compared to Maye and I don't think I would be that excited. If someone can convince me otherwise I'd love to hear it.

In comment 16464072 jvm52106 said:

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Maye! I am fine with JJM at 6 but Maye is the guy I want us to get. I am starting to wonder if some talk a few weeks back about Neal and Ojulari could still be true as far as moving up..

Who in God's name would be interested in Neal?

I’ll also say this. I live in Charlotte and have been here for almost 3 years. Maye went to Myers Park High School in Charlotte and then UNC obviously. But people down south absolutely love the guy and basically only watched this UNC team because of him. Anytime I would talk to someone who either went to Clemson, UNC, USC, all these teams, they’d say Maye is undoubtedly going to be a great pro. For whatever that’s worth.

And college football down here is another animal. Maye is beloved by these fans.

But I'll believe it when I see it. He's going 2 or 3. It'd be prohibitively expensive to move up to 3 (and in my mind, he's QB1), so I think it's a pipe dream.

In comment 16464057 Go Terps said:

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Comparing anyone to Allen is a dangerous game - his improvement at the NFL level is something you don't often see. I think Maye is a little scary, but it is past due that Giants try something. This is welcome news.

There is a recklessness and fearlessness to Maye's game that is similar to Allen, both passing and running. On the good side and bad side.

I see younger Roethisberger, not Allen.

In comment 16464053 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 16464047 Eric from BBI said: Quote: "If they liked Jones, they wouldn't be traveling all over the country visiting these guys and scheduling dinners. Russell Wilson visit showed this as well." Another point that some on the site had problems recognizing. 'Some' being the ones who in 2038 will be arguing on this site-provided the site is still around/we're all still around-that Jones could have made it here if only he had All Pros @ every position. Of course Jack Stroud will be living in Canton, OH @ that time, desperately waiting for the day Jones is inducted into the HOF.

Rats! I thought I heard you say you were ready to give up on the Giants or some such BS. And speaking of BS lets call the 2038 comment pure unadulterated BS. Nobody here or anywhere says Jones needs to be surrounded by a team full of All-Pros. What they have said is that they'd like to see what Jones might do if he actually had a true #1 receiver (like every other successful QB in the NFL) and if he actually got to work behind a half way competent OL (like every other successful QB in the NFL) none of which he's ever had! Other than that its a fair comparison.

I'd also quibble with Eric's reference to Russ Wilson. If they were really done with Jones they would have signed Wilson (who was available for peanuts not to mention that one would have to think that his model/actress wife would much prefer to live in NY than Pittsburgh) and named him starter, instead they told him he'd be coming here as the backup.

In comment 16464044 JonC said:

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Part Herbert

Also part guy who at times can't hit the broad side of a barn and gets easily flustered by pressure.

In comment 16464075 JFIB said:

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And admittedly haven't watched every bit of Maye tape out there but he's my least favorite of the four. Sy 56's take on him vs JJ was pretty eye opening in regards to how much his game breaks down when he's under pressure. JJ's stats under pressure were really impressive compared to Maye and I don't think I would be that excited. If someone can convince me otherwise I'd love to hear it.

Well it's hard to say why he wasn't great under pressure. It could be his mechanics would break down and that could logically be corrected. Or it could be how his mind responds, which would be a bit more worrisome. He's a classic boom or bust prospect. If Daboll and Schoen believe in him enough to trade the farm, then you gotta have faith in their professional expertise.

I think JJM is a safer prospect, but harder to project him reaching his ceiling whereas you could easily see Maye reaching his full upside if all his issues are indeed related to mechanics and he responds well to honing his flaws with good coaching.

In comment 16464085 k2tampa said:

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In comment 16464044 JonC said: Quote: Part Herbert Also part guy who at times can't hit the broad side of a barn and gets easily flustered by pressure.

Both of those guys had similar issues as prospects

In comment 16464071 ryanmkeane said:

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IMO Jones was a better pro prospect than Nix and Penix by a little and he’s similar to McCarthy. Folks might have preferred Jones to McCarthy based on size. That being said, Maye is infinitely a better prospect than Jones was.

Nix and Penix have far, far, far better college tape than Jones had. I challenge you to present some video of Jones in college that would make any of us think that it’s something Nix or Penix couldn’t do. That tape doesn’t exist. The only part of Jones that you can point to that those guys don’t have is his size.

In comment 16464039 Eric from BBI said:

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I've said a few times, I heard early on they really liked Williams and Maye.

well doesnt everyone love Williams and Maye??

In comment 16464085 k2tampa said:

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In comment 16464044 JonC said: Quote: Part Herbert Also part guy who at times can't hit the broad side of a barn and gets easily flustered by pressure.

Watch his '22 film and see the potential.

and others would possibly trade chips.

In comment 16464085 k2tampa said:

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In comment 16464044 JonC said: Quote: Part Herbert Also part guy who at times can't hit the broad side of a barn and gets easily flustered by pressure.

You do realize that he had a brand new OC and a very inexperienced WR fire this year

But don’t let that get in the way of the narrative

think it's pretty clear the Giants do love Maye and will do everything they can to move up to get him, including making a "godfather" offer to NE, AZ, or SD. Big Rick in FL and at least one "asshat" have said that the Giants already have a deal in place with NE if the draft falls a certain way. My own view as I've said is that doing that is a mistake, but I accept it as the most likely scenario.

If the Giants don't get Maye it therefore won't be for lack of trying. I think if it doesn't happen it will be because for whatever reason NE, AZ, or SD refuse to trade down or prefer an offer from Minnesota.

If true.

this makes more sense to me than they're in love with McCarthy.

In comment 16464077 ryanmkeane said:

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I’ll also say this. I live in Charlotte and have been here for almost 3 years. Maye went to Myers Park High School in Charlotte and then UNC obviously. But people down south absolutely love the guy and basically only watched this UNC team because of him. Anytime I would talk to someone who either went to Clemson, UNC, USC, all these teams, they’d say Maye is undoubtedly going to be a great pro. For whatever that’s worth.

To think we live in the same state, albeit 2 1/2ish hours away. Perhaps we've been in the same line @ Teeter or Food Lion...if I see someone wearing a DJ jersey, I'll know it's you.

I kid. Relax.

In comment 16464071 ryanmkeane said:

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IMO Jones was a better pro prospect than Nix and Penix by a little and he’s similar to McCarthy. Folks might have preferred Jones to McCarthy based on size. That being said, Maye is infinitely a better prospect than Jones was.

How was Daniel Jones a better pro prospect than Penix. C'mon. Penix throws so much better than Jones, right now.

In comment 16464092 JonC said:

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In comment 16464085 k2tampa said: Quote: In comment 16464044 JonC said: Quote: Part Herbert Also part guy who at times can't hit the broad side of a barn and gets easily flustered by pressure. Watch his '22 film and see the potential.

Some people are unable to see drafting QB for what it is --a projection.

There will be a shout of freedom such as the world has never heard before!

In comment 16464076 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 16464072 jvm52106 said: Quote: Maye! I am fine with JJM at 6 but Maye is the guy I want us to get. I am starting to wonder if some talk a few weeks back about Neal and Ojulari could still be true as far as moving up.. Who in God's name would be interested in Neal?

I think you'd be surprised. There are probably a number of coaches who think the Giants are just horrid at OL development and the talent is there.

.

That's possible. Whenever I hear people bash the Neal pick, I remember that Dallas had him either 1 or 2 on their board, along with Thibs. And if he was in Dallas right now, he'd probably be an All Pro, Haha.

I'm not ready to give up on Neal, but it's getting late. This is year 3. Not only does he needs to play significantly better, but the dude needs to stay healthy.

In comment 16464119 The Mike said:

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There will be a shout of freedom such as the world has never heard before!

In comment 16464118 UberAlias said:

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In comment 16464092 JonC said: Quote: In comment 16464085 k2tampa said: Quote: In comment 16464044 JonC said: Quote: Part Herbert Also part guy who at times can't hit the broad side of a barn and gets easily flustered by pressure. Watch his '22 film and see the potential. Some people are unable to see drafting QB for what it is --a projection.

Yes. Drafting a QB in my opinion is about drafting for ceiling. What are the traits? I think some defects on college tape aren't worth getting bothered by, like fumbling. You have to trust if the QB is a good enough athlete you can coach some of the bad stuff out of him.

In comment 16464119 The Mike said:

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There will be a shout of freedom such as the world has never heard before!

that matt rhule had no interest in them a few days before it came out that he had multiple conversations with mara and gave nyg a chance to match the carolina deal?

In comment 16464096 Mbavaro said:

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In comment 16464085 k2tampa said: Quote: In comment 16464044 JonC said: Quote: Part Herbert Also part guy who at times can't hit the broad side of a barn and gets easily flustered by pressure. You do realize that he had a brand new OC and a very inexperienced WR fire this year But don’t let that get in the way of the narrative

Wait - are you saying that for QB's, we should take into account things like coaching and skill position talent when evaluating their play? Does that mean things like OL play matter too? Wow, that's crazy talk...

After Williams, teams seem to be all over the place on these QBs. I don't think there is a chalk.

If you go back in the podcast I linked, you'll hear Chris Simms torching Maye. I think Maye is very in reach for NYG considering it's possible NE likes Daniels & McCarthy more. If Maye is QB-4 for NE, it's easy to see them trading down.

Some teams (and fans) are swinging for doubles or singles. I think (and hope) NYG wants a home run.

In comment 16464160 Sean said:

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After Williams, teams seem to be all over the place on these QBs. I don't think there is a chalk. If you go back in the podcast I linked, you'll hear Chris Simms torching Maye. I think Maye is very in reach for NYG considering it's possible NE likes Daniels & McCarthy more. If Maye is QB-4 for NE, it's easy to see them trading down.

I'll be happy if they get any of the top 6. But given the huge number of holes they have, I wouldn't want them to give up a ton by trading up

In comment 16464040 ajr2456 said:

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.

For the first time in forever I’d feel like we had some kind of foundation of young players.

is fascinating to watch people make the same excuses for Maye that nobody accepts for Jones.

Maye had a new OC.
Jones has had multiple head coaches, GMs, and OCs.

Maye had a bad OL.
Jones has a bad OL.

Maye didn’t have enough weapons.
Jones has never had a #1 WR.

If you want to be a franchise QB, one that a team is willing to trade a ton of draft capital to move up to get, then you don’t get to make excuses. Football is a violent game and teams are a constant revolving door of general managers, coaches, coordinators, and players.

I’m fine taking any of the “big four” QBs at #6, but they all have too many questions to justify trading up for any of them given the enormous amount of draft capital that would be required to do so.

Get Maye, but I’m not convinced Washington doesn’t draft him in which case I think NE goes Daniel’s and Giants have to either try and trade up a couple spots for JJM or hope Vikings don’t

In comment 16464204 AcidTest said:

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is fascinating to watch people make the same excuses for Maye that nobody accepts for Jones. Maye had a new OC. Jones has had multiple head coaches, GMs, and OCs. Maye had a bad OL. Jones has a bad OL. Maye didn’t have enough weapons. Jones has never had a #1 WR. If you want to be a franchise QB, one that a team is willing to trade a ton of draft capital to move up to get, then you don’t get to make excuses. Football is a violent game and teams are a constant revolving door of general managers, coaches, coordinators, and players. I’m fine taking any of the “big four” QBs at #6, but they all have too many questions to justify trading up for any of them given the enormous amount of draft capital that would be required to do so.

There’s no such thing as a perfect prospect. If the Giants have a conviction on a guy then they should move heaven and earth to get him. If it doesn’t work out in 2-3 years you try again (you don’t give him a huge contract and declare him as infallible, as they did with Jones)

In comment 16464204 AcidTest said:

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is fascinating to watch people make the same excuses for Maye that nobody accepts for Jones. Maye had a new OC. Jones has had multiple head coaches, GMs, and OCs. Maye had a bad OL. Jones has a bad OL. Maye didn’t have enough weapons. Jones has never had a #1 WR. If you want to be a franchise QB, one that a team is willing to trade a ton of draft capital to move up to get, then you don’t get to make excuses. Football is a violent game and teams are a constant revolving door of general managers, coaches, coordinators, and players. I’m fine taking any of the “big four” QBs at #6, but they all have too many questions to justify trading up for any of them given the enormous amount of draft capital that would be required to do so.

Well, Maye is an unknown and Jones is entering year 6.

In comment 16464204 AcidTest said:

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is fascinating to watch people make the same excuses for Maye that nobody accepts for Jones. Maye had a new OC. Jones has had multiple head coaches, GMs, and OCs. Maye had a bad OL. Jones has a bad OL. Maye didn’t have enough weapons. Jones has never had a #1 WR. If you want to be a franchise QB, one that a team is willing to trade a ton of draft capital to move up to get, then you don’t get to make excuses. Football is a violent game and teams are a constant revolving door of general managers, coaches, coordinators, and players. I’m fine taking any of the “big four” QBs at #6, but they all have too many questions to justify trading up for any of them given the enormous amount of draft capital that would be required to do so.

To be fair, it is literally impossible to take your opinion seriously on this matter. You have proven time and time and time again to be absolutely petrified of taking risks and are completely addicted to draft picks. So of course you don’t want to move up. You’ve made that clear. However I will say that after reading this post, I’m starting to get the impression that your weird obsession about being scared out of your mind to trade draft picks just may have more to do with your fondness of Daniel Jones. And no, you saying “I’d be fine taking a QB at 6” doesn’t get you off the hook. That’s the same mantra that the entire DJFC has decided to go with in an effort to somehow make them seem unbiased.

Bust

In comment 16464053 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 16464047 Eric from BBI said Quote: "If they liked Jones, they wouldn't be traveling all over the country visiting these guys and scheduling dinners. Russell Wilson visit showed this as well." Another point that some on the site had problems recognizing. //// 'Some' being the ones who in 2038 will be arguing on this site-provided the site is still around/we're all still around-that Jones could have made it here if only he had All Pros @ every position....

I thought Eric might have been referring to bw and others who are highly skeptical that Mara/Schoen/Dabes would move off Jones

In comment 16464204 AcidTest said:

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is fascinating to watch people make the same excuses for Maye that nobody accepts for Jones. Maye had a new OC. Jones has had multiple head coaches, GMs, and OCs. Maye had a bad OL. Jones has a bad OL. Maye didn’t have enough weapons. Jones has never had a #1 WR. If you want to be a franchise QB, one that a team is willing to trade a ton of draft capital to move up to get, then you don’t get to make excuses. Football is a violent game and teams are a constant revolving door of general managers, coaches, coordinators, and players. I’m fine taking any of the “big four” QBs at #6, but they all have too many questions to justify trading up for any of them given the enormous amount of draft capital that would be required to do so.

Who are/is making all of these excuses for Maye? My first choice is Daniels, but I also advocate pretty strongly for Maye on the board.

But I concede Maye had a down year after great 2022 season. I agree with Merril Hodge, for example, that Maye was horrible against NC State. That he made some brutally bad decisions.

Yet, none of that takes away from Maye's high-end toolbox: great arm, great size, can make off-platform throws, can run, and he's tough. Those attributes project well to today's NFL. And I am willing to trust Daboll to take Maye into his lab and get Maye to play to his maximum potential.

You are sounding more and more like a member of the BBI Sure Thing Only Draft Club.

Jones threw 52 in 36 games. Jones threw more interceptions in his last two years (20) than Maye (16) on 100 less passing attempts.

So while the same excuses may be made for Maye that get shot down for Jones, Drake Maye far out produced Jones in college. There’s fairly decent chance that even if Maye doesn’t pan out to be elite, he’ll out produce Jones at the NFL level.

To barely pass Maye’s total passing yards in two years.

In comment 16464079 ryanmkeane said:

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And college football down here is another animal. Maye is beloved by these fans.

I’ve lived outside Raleigh for over 30 years. The natives do love their college football.., but it’s only the transplants who actually know anything about the pro game. Maye regressed significantly this year over last… the question is why.

these were the last 3 games of justin herbert's college career as a senior who played 4 years of CFB.



60% completions, 168 ypg, 2 total passing tds, 1 int.

whether people want to believe it or not every QB is impacted by the environment around them (coaches, teammates, schemes, etc). utah and wisconsin were the 2 highest ranked schools he beat in his 4 years and his coach called fewer passing plays than jim harbough.

this is how an alien like justin herbert falls to QB3 with nobody willing to trade up to 2 or 3 for him when those picks were openly for sale.

if drake maye didnt have a down year he'd go no lower than 2nd overall (he still may not).
if JJM played in more of a passing offense he may have been a 1st OA qb.

if there was any certainty that any player is the next herbert they dont get past the 1st overall pick unless mahomes is in the same draft.

I don't think any of these 6 QBs is even a second round pick better than any of the others. All have strengths, all have weaknesses. I think asking who will hit and who will bust is little more than guesswork.

But I'd rather trade up for a QB than draft a WR at 6.

In comment 16464246 Spider56 said:

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I’ve lived outside Raleigh for over 30 years. The natives do love their college football.., but it’s only the transplants who actually know anything about the pro game. Maye regressed significantly this year over last… the question is why.

He regressed - yes. But PFF still rated Maye the 7th ranked passer in the country. Ahead of notables like McCarthy, Ewers, Sanders.

We shouldn't act like he couldn't throw the ball into the ocean.

In comment 16464250 Go Terps said:

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I don't think any of these 6 QBs is even a second round pick better than any of the others. All have strengths, all have weaknesses. I think asking who will hit and who will bust is little more than guesswork. But I'd rather trade up for a QB than draft a WR at 6.

these guys didnt seem to guess josh allen was better than josh rosen and they didnt trade for a lower pick to just wait and take whichever one was left.

as has always been the case it is as lot easier to say "take whoever" when it's not your job riding on it.

He doesn't have it. After five years of struggling to be below average, I'd much rather turn the page and give a more talented QB a shot. There's too much I can't unsee with Jones on gamedays. Trust your gut.

In comment 16464249 Eric on Li said:

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if there was any certainty that any player is the next herbert they dont get past the 1st overall pick unless mahomes is in the same draft.

After his excellent 2022 season, there were rumors Maye was going to hit the portal and Saban wanted to reunite. Remember, Maye was going to Bama originally (4-star kid) but backed out near the midnight hour to stay at UNC. Which is where most of his family went.

I have a feeling that if Maye did go to Tuscaloosa, he would have lit it up in 2023 and none of these questions - reasonable questions, btw - would be lingering...

In comment 16464256 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16464249 Eric on Li said: Quote: if there was any certainty that any player is the next herbert they dont get past the 1st overall pick unless mahomes is in the same draft. After his excellent 2022 season, there were rumors Maye was going to hit the portal and Saban wanted to reunite. Remember, Maye was going to Bama originally (4-star kid) but backed out near the midnight hour to stay at UNC. Which is where most of his family went. I have a feeling that if Maye did go to Tuscaloosa, he would have lit it up in 2023 and none of these questions - reasonable questions, btw - would be lingering...

it's possible, though i think you have a bit of a blindspot that the same couldnt possibly also be true for JJM.

where are Nix, Penix, Daniels right now if they never transferred and 4th/5th/6th seasons in better environments? the answer is likely a lot closer to malik willis and kenny pickett than joe burrow.

In comment 16464226 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 16464204 AcidTest said: Quote: is fascinating to watch people make the same excuses for Maye that nobody accepts for Jones. Maye had a new OC. Jones has had multiple head coaches, GMs, and OCs. Maye had a bad OL. Jones has a bad OL. Maye didn’t have enough weapons. Jones has never had a #1 WR. If you want to be a franchise QB, one that a team is willing to trade a ton of draft capital to move up to get, then you don’t get to make excuses. Football is a violent game and teams are a constant revolving door of general managers, coaches, coordinators, and players. I’m fine taking any of the “big four” QBs at #6, but they all have too many questions to justify trading up for any of them given the enormous amount of draft capital that would be required to do so. To be fair, it is literally impossible to take your opinion seriously on this matter. You have proven time and time and time again to be absolutely petrified of taking risks and are completely addicted to draft picks. So of course you don’t want to move up. You’ve made that clear. However I will say that after reading this post, I’m starting to get the impression that your weird obsession about being scared out of your mind to trade draft picks just may have more to do with your fondness of Daniel Jones. And no, you saying “I’d be fine taking a QB at 6” doesn’t get you off the hook. That’s the same mantra that the entire DJFC has decided to go with in an effort to somehow make them seem unbiased.

So your position is that the reason I don't want to trade a ton of draft capital for Maye or JJM is that I am "scared out of my mind to trade draft picks" and am "addicted to draft picks." Then how do you explain that I fully supported trading up for Banks and Hyatt, trading for Waller, and trading for Burns?

What is it going to cost to move from #6 to #3? Can we do so for #47 and our #1 next year? I doubt it. It will likely cost a lot more. NE needs a QB as much as we do, and is in a position to draft one right now without having to trade up. Asking them to possibly give up that chance by moving down to six will likely be very expensive.

You also obviously haven't been reading my posts about Jones. I got off the Jones bandwagon well before the end of last season and have said so many times. I have repeatedly criticized his performance and also said that his injury history precludes him from being the long-term QB for the Giants. I have also repeatedly called his contract "ridiculous" and "disastrous."

I am not interested in name-calling. I don't think people who want to trade a ton of draft capital to move up for a QB are motivated by fear, whether of Jones starting again in 2024 or something else. I just think they are wrong. So do a lot of other people here. This is a sports board. People are entitled to offer their opinions. That is why it exists.

The irony is that I did grow up with an addict, a vulgar, violent, drunk.

a bad QB to a good QB will make for the Giants. And then if that good QB becomes elite.

All the players you talk about trading for, at best they are worth 1.5 points per game, some of them, like Banks, are worth .5 ppg. Daniel jones is probably a negative ppg, adding a good QB is worth 3-4 ppg, or a net gain of 5 or 6 ppg. The number one thing the Giants can do is add just a good QB. We haven't had good QB play on this team since 2017. Adding Banks, Burns, Waller, it's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. If we somehow get lucky and add our version of CJ Stroud, we can soon catapult this sad franchise into a contender.

That is why you trade substantial draft capital for a QB that you GM and HC desire.

In comment 16464262 Eric on Li said:

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it's possible, though i think you have a bit of a blindspot that the same couldnt possibly also be true for JJM.

But McCarthy was in a good environment at Michigan. He had pro coaching and a number of skill players who will get drafted in three weeks. Wilson will go day two and possibly Corum, too.

Believe me, Mack Brown is a lot closer to Mario Cristobal than he is to Nick Saban and Harbaugh.

In comment 16464270 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16464262 Eric on Li said: Quote: it's possible, though i think you have a bit of a blindspot that the same couldnt possibly also be true for JJM. But McCarthy was in a good environment at Michigan. He had pro coaching and a number of skill players who will get drafted in three weeks. Wilson will go day two and possibly Corum, too. Believe me, Mack Brown is a lot closer to Mario Cristobal than he is to Nick Saban and Harbaugh.

McCarthy was not in a good passing environment his coach called runs almost 60% of the time. The top guys in this class all had 100-200 more passing attempts than him.

In comment 16464270 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16464262 Eric on Li said: Quote: it's possible, though i think you have a bit of a blindspot that the same couldnt possibly also be true for JJM. But McCarthy was in a good environment at Michigan. He had pro coaching and a number of skill players who will get drafted in three weeks. Wilson will go day two and possibly Corum, too. Believe me, Mack Brown is a lot closer to Mario Cristobal than he is to Nick Saban and Harbaugh.

No excuses!!! :)

Either the guy is good enough to be drafted or he isn't. And let's not give him a five year leash either.

In comment 16464251 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16464246 Spider56 said: Quote: I’ve lived outside Raleigh for over 30 years. The natives do love their college football.., but it’s only the transplants who actually know anything about the pro game. Maye regressed significantly this year over last… the question is why. He regressed - yes. But PFF still rated Maye the 7th ranked passer in the country. Ahead of notables like McCarthy, Ewers, Sanders. We shouldn't act like he couldn't throw the ball into the ocean.

Yeah. 400+ yard games against the powerhouses of Minnesota and Syracuse will help the rankings; but he was a bit less stellar against the better teams. I’ve seen a bunch of Maye’s games, several at Kenan. In 2022 he looked phenomenal. All I’m saying is the Giants need to understand why he regressed in 2023 and if it can confidently be reversed.

"very reliably" lol

In comment 16464281 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 16464270 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 16464262 Eric on Li said: Quote: it's possible, though i think you have a bit of a blindspot that the same couldnt possibly also be true for JJM. But McCarthy was in a good environment at Michigan. He had pro coaching and a number of skill players who will get drafted in three weeks. Wilson will go day two and possibly Corum, too. Believe me, Mack Brown is a lot closer to Mario Cristobal than he is to Nick Saban and Harbaugh. McCarthy was not in a good passing environment his coach called runs almost 60% of the time. The top guys in this class all had 100-200 more passing attempts than him.

and that's why smaller sample size makes him a bit riskier.

In comment 16464083 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16464057 Go Terps said: Quote: Comparing anyone to Allen is a dangerous game - his improvement at the NFL level is something you don't often see. I think Maye is a little scary, but it is past due that Giants try something. This is welcome news. There is a recklessness and fearlessness to Maye's game that is similar to Allen, both passing and running. On the good side and bad side. I see younger Roethisberger, not Allen.

I can live with recklessness (love fearlessness) as long as he’s hanging point on the board every week. Maye isn’t my favorite but wtf do I know. I’d be excited.

other than andrew luck.

the small sample size is how you want to behold it - jayden daniels threw more passes at ASU than JJM did at UM. where do you think JJM draft stock would go if he got 1 year in kelly's spread w/ Nabers + Thomas let alone 2?

ive said since november i think nfl coaches feel better about an unfinished product like JJM than fans do (and specifically this regime did when they picked Allen from Wyoming over Rosen).

In comment 16464286 pjcas18 said:

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"very reliably" lol

Yikes. Bad job by me. I didn't even notice.

In comment 16464265 Darwinian said:

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a bad QB to a good QB will make for the Giants. And then if that good QB becomes elite. All the players you talk about trading for, at best they are worth 1.5 points per game, some of them, like Banks, are worth .5 ppg. Daniel jones is probably a negative ppg, adding a good QB is worth 3-4 ppg, or a net gain of 5 or 6 ppg. The number one thing the Giants can do is add just a good QB. We haven't had good QB play on this team since 2017. Adding Banks, Burns, Waller, it's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. If we somehow get lucky and add our version of CJ Stroud, we can soon catapult this sad franchise into a contender. That is why you trade substantial draft capital for a QB that you GM and HC desire.

I think most people share your view. And not just most people here. But most GMs. Massive move ups for QBs are quite common despite their high failure rate. Most GMs therefore likely believe that doing so is still their best chance of finding a franchise QB, regardless of that fact and the high cost. I think Schoen is in that group, especially since Buffalo successfully moved up for Allen, which is why I think he wants to move up for Maye. It isn't an indefensible position, although I am lately becoming convinced that it might be better to just spend a second or third round pick on a QB every two or three years to try and find a hidden gem that everyone else overlooked.

What I did not like was being falsely accused of being "addicted to draft picks" or being a member of the DJFC. My positive statements about Jones are about his character, toughness, and work ethic, which nobody questions. I have also said that assuming he can stay healthy, Jones belongs in the league as a journeyman backup or perhaps a "bridge starter" for a year or two for a team that for whatever reason is not currently in a position to try and get their next long-term QB. I have also supported cutting Jones as soon as he is healthy, for his benefit and the Giants.

Without that knowledge, this is all just a circle jerk until NYG intentions are clear.

In comment 16464263 AcidTest said:

Quote:

In comment 16464226 BigBlueShock said: Quote: In comment 16464204 AcidTest said: Quote: is fascinating to watch people make the same excuses for Maye that nobody accepts for Jones. Maye had a new OC. Jones has had multiple head coaches, GMs, and OCs. Maye had a bad OL. Jones has a bad OL. Maye didn’t have enough weapons. Jones has never had a #1 WR. If you want to be a franchise QB, one that a team is willing to trade a ton of draft capital to move up to get, then you don’t get to make excuses. Football is a violent game and teams are a constant revolving door of general managers, coaches, coordinators, and players. I’m fine taking any of the “big four” QBs at #6, but they all have too many questions to justify trading up for any of them given the enormous amount of draft capital that would be required to do so. To be fair, it is literally impossible to take your opinion seriously on this matter. You have proven time and time and time again to be absolutely petrified of taking risks and are completely addicted to draft picks. So of course you don’t want to move up. You’ve made that clear. However I will say that after reading this post, I’m starting to get the impression that your weird obsession about being scared out of your mind to trade draft picks just may have more to do with your fondness of Daniel Jones. And no, you saying “I’d be fine taking a QB at 6” doesn’t get you off the hook. That’s the same mantra that the entire DJFC has decided to go with in an effort to somehow make them seem unbiased. So your position is that the reason I don't want to trade a ton of draft capital for Maye or JJM is that I am "scared out of my mind to trade draft picks" and am "addicted to draft picks." Then how do you explain that I fully supported trading up for Banks and Hyatt, trading for Waller, and trading for Burns? What is it going to cost to move from #6 to #3? Can we do so for #47 and our #1 next year? I doubt it. It will likely cost a lot more. NE needs a QB as much as we do, and is in a position to draft one right now without having to trade up. Asking them to possibly give up that chance by moving down to six will likely be very expensive. You also obviously haven't been reading my posts about Jones. I got off the Jones bandwagon well before the end of last season and have said so many times. I have repeatedly criticized his performance and also said that his injury history precludes him from being the long-term QB for the Giants. I have also repeatedly called his contract "ridiculous" and "disastrous." I am not interested in name-calling. I don't think people who want to trade a ton of draft capital to move up for a QB are motivated by fear, whether of Jones starting again in 2024 or something else. I just think they are wrong. So do a lot of other people here. This is a sports board. People are entitled to offer their opinions. That is why it exists. The irony is that I did grow up with an addict, a vulgar, violent, drunk.

Seems like BBS was being hyperbolic, don't take it to heart. I don't want to trade more than a 2025 2nd and 3rd tops unless it was for Daniels which I don't think will be possible. So I'm right there with you. And I've seen you say if Schoen did a massive trade up for Maye you'd still be excited by the conviction I believe? Sometimes people can take these things a bit too seriously when we are merely discussing possibilities about our favorite team's options without having any influence on it ourselves. Cheers!

You’re good, man. We know where you stand. E

In comment 16464304 AcidTest said:

Quote:

In comment 16464265 Darwinian said: Quote: a bad QB to a good QB will make for the Giants. And then if that good QB becomes elite. All the players you talk about trading for, at best they are worth 1.5 points per game, some of them, like Banks, are worth .5 ppg. Daniel jones is probably a negative ppg, adding a good QB is worth 3-4 ppg, or a net gain of 5 or 6 ppg. The number one thing the Giants can do is add just a good QB. We haven't had good QB play on this team since 2017. Adding Banks, Burns, Waller, it's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. If we somehow get lucky and add our version of CJ Stroud, we can soon catapult this sad franchise into a contender. That is why you trade substantial draft capital for a QB that you GM and HC desire. I think most people share your view. And not just most people here. But most GMs. Massive move ups for QBs are quite common despite their high failure rate. Most GMs therefore likely believe that doing so is still their best chance of finding a franchise QB, regardless of that fact and the high cost. I think Schoen is in that group, especially since Buffalo successfully moved up for Allen, which is why I think he wants to move up for Maye. It isn't an indefensible position, although I am lately becoming convinced that it might be better to just spend a second or third round pick on a QB every two or three years to try and find a hidden gem that everyone else overlooked. What I did not like was being falsely accused of being "addicted to draft picks" or being a member of the DJFC. My positive statements about Jones are about his character, toughness, and work ethic, which nobody questions. I have also said that assuming he can stay healthy, Jones belongs in the league as a journeyman backup or perhaps a "bridge starter" for a year or two for a team that for whatever reason is not currently in a position to try and get their next long-term QB. I have also supported cutting Jones as soon as he is healthy, for his benefit and the Giants.

I appreciate these comments. Whether it is spending draft picks to move to the top of the draft or drafting a QB every couple of years, we do agree a team needs a strategy to bolster the most important position in sports. I like both approaches. I would say that I think a little too much is made of draft picks. We have seen really good teams treat them as fungible and toss them, reacquire, move around, and not get locked into draft position. I think it is ok to spend picks to get a shot at a top QB. It's not nearly as crippling as some say, imo. San Francisco spent a ton on the failed Lance experiment, and they didn't miss a beat. It's a numbers game and you have to take as many shots as you can, and as it worked out, another one of their shots, the late pick on Purdy worked out. I think you can't be afraid to fail and there is an opportunity cost for failing to act.

In comment 16464310 BleedBlue46 said:

Quote:

In comment 16464263 AcidTest said: Quote: In comment 16464226 BigBlueShock said: Quote: In comment 16464204 AcidTest said: Quote: is fascinating to watch people make the same excuses for Maye that nobody accepts for Jones. Maye had a new OC. Jones has had multiple head coaches, GMs, and OCs. Maye had a bad OL. Jones has a bad OL. Maye didn’t have enough weapons. Jones has never had a #1 WR. If you want to be a franchise QB, one that a team is willing to trade a ton of draft capital to move up to get, then you don’t get to make excuses. Football is a violent game and teams are a constant revolving door of general managers, coaches, coordinators, and players. I’m fine taking any of the “big four” QBs at #6, but they all have too many questions to justify trading up for any of them given the enormous amount of draft capital that would be required to do so. To be fair, it is literally impossible to take your opinion seriously on this matter. You have proven time and time and time again to be absolutely petrified of taking risks and are completely addicted to draft picks. So of course you don’t want to move up. You’ve made that clear. However I will say that after reading this post, I’m starting to get the impression that your weird obsession about being scared out of your mind to trade draft picks just may have more to do with your fondness of Daniel Jones. And no, you saying “I’d be fine taking a QB at 6” doesn’t get you off the hook. That’s the same mantra that the entire DJFC has decided to go with in an effort to somehow make them seem unbiased. So your position is that the reason I don't want to trade a ton of draft capital for Maye or JJM is that I am "scared out of my mind to trade draft picks" and am "addicted to draft picks." Then how do you explain that I fully supported trading up for Banks and Hyatt, trading for Waller, and trading for Burns? What is it going to cost to move from #6 to #3? Can we do so for #47 and our #1 next year? I doubt it. It will likely cost a lot more. NE needs a QB as much as we do, and is in a position to draft one right now without having to trade up. Asking them to possibly give up that chance by moving down to six will likely be very expensive. You also obviously haven't been reading my posts about Jones. I got off the Jones bandwagon well before the end of last season and have said so many times. I have repeatedly criticized his performance and also said that his injury history precludes him from being the long-term QB for the Giants. I have also repeatedly called his contract "ridiculous" and "disastrous." I am not interested in name-calling. I don't think people who want to trade a ton of draft capital to move up for a QB are motivated by fear, whether of Jones starting again in 2024 or something else. I just think they are wrong. So do a lot of other people here. This is a sports board. People are entitled to offer their opinions. That is why it exists. The irony is that I did grow up with an addict, a vulgar, violent, drunk. Seems like BBS was being hyperbolic, don't take it to heart. I don't want to trade more than a 2025 2nd and 3rd tops unless it was for Daniels which I don't think will be possible. So I'm right there with you. And I've seen you say if Schoen did a massive trade up for Maye you'd still be excited by the conviction I believe? Sometimes people can take these things a bit too seriously when we are merely discussing possibilities about our favorite team's options without having any influence on it ourselves. Cheers!

If Schoen does it, I will absolutely support it and hope for the best. And it might well work out. I watch a lot of college football, but plenty of people here watch a lot more than I do. Maye also did have a terrific 2022 season. But he definitely regressed in 2023. And who knows what it will cost. It could be a lot less than what I think.

In comment 16464321 AcidTest said:

Quote:

In comment 16464310 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16464263 AcidTest said: Quote: In comment 16464226 BigBlueShock said: Quote: In comment 16464204 AcidTest said: Quote: is fascinating to watch people make the same excuses for Maye that nobody accepts for Jones. Maye had a new OC. Jones has had multiple head coaches, GMs, and OCs. Maye had a bad OL. Jones has a bad OL. Maye didn’t have enough weapons. Jones has never had a #1 WR. If you want to be a franchise QB, one that a team is willing to trade a ton of draft capital to move up to get, then you don’t get to make excuses. Football is a violent game and teams are a constant revolving door of general managers, coaches, coordinators, and players. I’m fine taking any of the “big four” QBs at #6, but they all have too many questions to justify trading up for any of them given the enormous amount of draft capital that would be required to do so. To be fair, it is literally impossible to take your opinion seriously on this matter. You have proven time and time and time again to be absolutely petrified of taking risks and are completely addicted to draft picks. So of course you don’t want to move up. You’ve made that clear. However I will say that after reading this post, I’m starting to get the impression that your weird obsession about being scared out of your mind to trade draft picks just may have more to do with your fondness of Daniel Jones. And no, you saying “I’d be fine taking a QB at 6” doesn’t get you off the hook. That’s the same mantra that the entire DJFC has decided to go with in an effort to somehow make them seem unbiased. So your position is that the reason I don't want to trade a ton of draft capital for Maye or JJM is that I am "scared out of my mind to trade draft picks" and am "addicted to draft picks." Then how do you explain that I fully supported trading up for Banks and Hyatt, trading for Waller, and trading for Burns? What is it going to cost to move from #6 to #3? Can we do so for #47 and our #1 next year? I doubt it. It will likely cost a lot more. NE needs a QB as much as we do, and is in a position to draft one right now without having to trade up. Asking them to possibly give up that chance by moving down to six will likely be very expensive. You also obviously haven't been reading my posts about Jones. I got off the Jones bandwagon well before the end of last season and have said so many times. I have repeatedly criticized his performance and also said that his injury history precludes him from being the long-term QB for the Giants. I have also repeatedly called his contract "ridiculous" and "disastrous." I am not interested in name-calling. I don't think people who want to trade a ton of draft capital to move up for a QB are motivated by fear, whether of Jones starting again in 2024 or something else. I just think they are wrong. So do a lot of other people here. This is a sports board. People are entitled to offer their opinions. That is why it exists. The irony is that I did grow up with an addict, a vulgar, violent, drunk. Seems like BBS was being hyperbolic, don't take it to heart. I don't want to trade more than a 2025 2nd and 3rd tops unless it was for Daniels which I don't think will be possible. So I'm right there with you. And I've seen you say if Schoen did a massive trade up for Maye you'd still be excited by the conviction I believe? Sometimes people can take these things a bit too seriously when we are merely discussing possibilities about our favorite team's options without having any influence on it ourselves. Cheers! If Schoen does it, I will absolutely support it and hope for the best. And it might well work out. I watch a lot of college football, but plenty of people here watch a lot more than I do. Maye also did have a terrific 2022 season. But he definitely regressed in 2023. And who knows what it will cost. It could be a lot less than what I think.

Agreed, if Schoen and Daboll have conviction then my biggest concern about his play under pressure must be a mechanical issue to them. They must see something in the way his mechanics break down when under pressure and going past his first read. That's my biggest concern and I'm not able to discern whether that is due to a mechanical breakdown or a mental issue. Other than that, I think his accuracy and other stuff can be cleaned up. The big question is can he make good pre and postsnap reads and can he improve this breakdown in his game when under duress. Those are two areas that are very tough to analyze from just watching all 22 from home and doing research.

Another point, I was thinking there was a good chance we could get JJM for pick 6 and maybe a bit more. If NE really does love JJM, then trading up for Maye makes a lot more sense because if we didn't we could very likely be left without any QB. I think JJM has a safer floor while Maye has a higher ceiling. I could definitely see why the Patriots might indeed want to trade down with us if they can still secure JJM. Getting a king's ransom plus JJM could potentially turn their franchise around in a hurry.

Who knows maybe the Maye vs JJM debates here have merits to both sides and they both end up as franchise QBs. I could see that happening.

In comment 16464256 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16464249 Eric on Li said: Quote: if there was any certainty that any player is the next herbert they dont get past the 1st overall pick unless mahomes is in the same draft. After his excellent 2022 season, there were rumors Maye was going to hit the portal and Saban wanted to reunite. Remember, Maye was going to Bama originally (4-star kid) but backed out near the midnight hour to stay at UNC. Which is where most of his family went. I have a feeling that if Maye did go to Tuscaloosa, he would have lit it up in 2023 and none of these questions - reasonable questions, btw - would be lingering...

LOL - if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

I love how your bending over backwards to make excuses for Maye, and he hasn't even entered the NFL yet.

As you have said many times - "an elite QB elevates everyone around him"

Maye didn't do that in 2023. As much as you try to downplay it.

He has serious questions. Just like JJM does. But yet, because you back Maye, you make excuses for him, but belittle anyone who likes JJM (with your "clever" JMFC moniker).

I hope NYG end up getting any of the big 6. I'm not a professional scout, so I won't pretend to know who is the best of the ones that are attainable (not counting Williams and Daniels, who by all accounts figure to be 1-2 in the draft). But I won't be upset if they end up with JJM- not the least because you (and several other idiots) pretend to be experts and will end up rooting against JJM because you don't like him.

Unless you try to pretend you are "neutral" about JJM, just like you pretended to be "neutral" in your evaluation of Jones...

LOL...

I haven’t seen made on this thread.
If Schoen had decided the play is to try to move up for the QB with the huge upside then I say BRAVO.
Finally, a GM that gets it! Even if this fails, he recognizes what needs to be done to dog this franchise out of its mess. He’s willing to get up to bat and swing for the Hone Run. Thus tells me he will keep trying until he’s successful.
Playing it safe isn’t getting this franchise anywhere.

In comment 16464303 Sean said:

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In comment 16464286 pjcas18 said: Quote: "very reliably" lol Yikes. Bad job by me. I didn't even notice.

I wasn't commenting on the typo, I noticed but wouldn't mention it, I was lol-ing at the topic.

nothing is what people think this time of year, and definitely nothing is "reliable".

certainly has misgivings on Drake Maye. He thinks they should draft a WR and hopefully that would be Nabers.

In comment 16464229 Doubledeuce22 said:

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Bust

Ok Merrill Hoge.