No offense to his old man, but Chris Simms is a complete zero to me as a commentator. If his last name was Chris Smith, he'd be an accountant or something.
Quite like Simms. Two things can be true at once: the giants roster stinks, but Jones has proven he cannot singularly elevate it. When you have a QB like that, you should always being look to upgrade. Period. And that's even when the player is healthy and reliable, which DJ seldom is at this point.
No offense to his old man, but Chris Simms is a complete zero to me as a commentator. If his last name was Chris Smith, he'd be an accountant or something.
I doubt it. If not the Giants, the Vikings would trade for him high.
I don't dislike Simms, actually. But whenever he says he's talking to people around the league and something to the effect of "people are with me, they're not saying I'm crazy about player x. I'll bet player y goes first"....take that with a major grain of salt.
He said the same thing last year with Will Anderson and his boy Tyree Wilson.
discussion is more interesting about the politics of the pick.
& I agree w/ Mike...drafting a QB gives this regime more time. That's why I'm somewhat confused when I hear that Dabs wants a WR...if we draft a WR & go 5-12 this fall, Dabs is likely out on his ass. If we got 5-12 this fall, but have a rookie QB in the wings or playing late in the season, Dabs probably gets a reprieve.
discussion is more interesting about the politics of the pick.
& I agree w/ Mike...drafting a QB gives this regime more time. That's why I'm somewhat confused when I hear that Dabs wants a WR...if we draft a WR & go 5-12 this fall, Dabs is likely out on his ass. If we got 5-12 this fall, but have a rookie QB in the wings or playing late in the season, Dabs probably gets a reprieve.
Would drafting a quarterback give Daboll and Schoen more time? Guys like Pat Shurmer and Frank Reich would beg to differ.
Would you guys stop with the 'taking a QB might give them another year' nonsense. They're professional football people trying to win games and build a championship quality team.
And just a quick thought on Daboll and his supposed desire to take the WR. Is it possible, and I only ask in rhetorical sense, that he remembers that Josh Allen didn't really become Josh Allen until the Bills went out and got him a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs and further wonders if it might help DJ too! Again just spitballing here!
Would you guys stop with the 'taking a QB might give them another year' nonsense. They're professional football people trying to win games and build a championship quality team.
And just a quick thought on Daboll and his supposed desire to take the WR. Is it possible, and I only ask in rhetorical sense, that he remembers that Josh Allen didn't really become Josh Allen until the Bills went out and got him a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs and further wonders if it might help DJ too! Again just spitballing here!
Would you guys stop with the 'taking a QB might give them another year' nonsense. They're professional football people trying to win games and build a championship quality team.
And just a quick thought on Daboll and his supposed desire to take the WR. Is it possible, and I only ask in rhetorical sense, that he remembers that Josh Allen didn't really become Josh Allen until the Bills went out and got him a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs and further wonders if it might help DJ too! Again just spitballing here!
Wrong.
Every year, 1/4 of head coaches get fired.
They are making decisions to saving their necks.
So what are we saying now. The Giants aren't drafting a QB to replace Jones but to save the coach and GMs jobs. OK i'll buy that!
Would you guys stop with the 'taking a QB might give them another year' nonsense. They're professional football people trying to win games and build a championship quality team.
And just a quick thought on Daboll and his supposed desire to take the WR. Is it possible, and I only ask in rhetorical sense, that he remembers that Josh Allen didn't really become Josh Allen until the Bills went out and got him a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs and further wonders if it might help DJ too! Again just spitballing here!
Wrong.
Every year, 1/4 of head coaches get fired.
They are making decisions to saving their necks.
So what are we saying now. The Giants aren't drafting a QB to replace Jones but to save the coach and GMs jobs. OK i'll buy that!
Both can be true simultaneously, believe it or not.
Is understanding the DJ contract. In the Lombardi thread it was said that Mara is the reason for the Jones contract. I don't know if that's true or not. BUT...
There is a seismic shift here if it's the case that Mara was the reason for the DJ extension verses Schoen. Their situation takes on a very different light if Mara forced that on them verses their own doing. DG got WAY more time than he deserved. If Mara was the force behind Jones and we're now in the situation we are, I don't see how there is any notion of hot seat. It's like --you screwed this up, now back off and and let us do our jobs.
Since we're all going to start throwing around stupid conspiracy theories I have one. The team knows they aren't going to get one of the top 4 QBs, but they're still doing all the due diligence, and very publicly at that, so that when they end up taking a WR at #6 they can say to the disgruntled fam base: see we tried everything we could but we just couldn't make it happen.
Since we're all going to start throwing around stupid conspiracy theories I have one. The team knows they aren't going to get one of the top 4 QBs, but they're still doing all the due diligence, and very publicly at that, so that when they end up taking a WR at #6 they can say to the disgruntled fam base: see we tried everything we could but we just couldn't make it happen.
This wouldn’t surprise me, but I also know you’re a key member of the DJFC and desperately want him to gifted a sixth year of mediocrity. Hopefully the giants are smarter than you
Is the idea of Brian Daboll calling plays. I don't think he has ANY intention to take over calling plays with barely any playmakers to work with. I think he would love to have one of these WRs. That said, I the decision is obviously much bigger than that, but I do suspect it would weigh heavily into his vote. There were some early asshat reports about Daboll preferring taking an elite WR with Schoen wanting QB.
Since we're all going to start throwing around stupid conspiracy theories I have one. The team knows they aren't going to get one of the top 4 QBs, but they're still doing all the due diligence, and very publicly at that, so that when they end up taking a WR at #6 they can say to the disgruntled fam base: see we tried everything we could but we just couldn't make it happen.
This wouldn’t surprise me, but I also know you’re a key member of the DJFC and desperately want him to gifted a sixth year of mediocrity. Hopefully the giants are smarter than you
You couldn't be more wrong LW. First, I am a huge DJ fan insofar as he's the Giansts starting QB and I will be until the Giants get somebody better. I do like DJ far more than the mob here because I think that he has some genuine tools and can be a suuccessful QB in the league if he has a decent cast around him which he's never had so how the fuck does anybody know what he'd do with one.
At the same time, I am also 100% in on the Giants taking a QB this year. I am not naive enough to think that DJ is in the elite category and if you get a chance to select a QB with that kind of potential you take it because you never know when you'll get the chance again. I am also not that naive that DJ's injury history, especially the neck is really worrisome.
I am also not naive enough to think that if the Giants do take one of those draft QBs I should order my Super Bowl tickets, because the likelihood that that guy is going to be the next coming of Allen or Herbert is all that high so I like to keep all my options open.
So if a QB does end up available at 6 I'll dance all the way to the bank, but I am also smart enough and realistic enough to see that it is growing more and more likely that QBs are going 1-2-3-4 with the Giants being left behind. And yeah I know people have been posting for weeks about possible trades and all that but most of them are only going to happen in their dreams.
I am also aware that there is more than one way to build a football team. Obviously you can upgrade at QB but you can also work to upgrade around the guy you have. And when life gives me lemons I make lemonade and know that if the Giants don't get a QB they are still going to be in a position to get a very very good player with legitimate elite potential and lord knows the Giants can use all the elite impact players they can get.
Since we're all going to start throwing around stupid conspiracy theories I have one. The team knows they aren't going to get one of the top 4 QBs, but they're still doing all the due diligence, and very publicly at that, so that when they end up taking a WR at #6 they can say to the disgruntled fam base: see we tried everything we could but we just couldn't make it happen.
It's not a "conspiracy" theory to say that GMs and HCs make personnel decisions to save their own necks. They aren't going to sit around after they are fired and say, "well hey, I did right by the team."
This isn't just coming from me. This is widely talked about by the pundits (and has been for years).
You don't like it because it's "not the right thing to do"... but these are human beings living in the real world with their own self interest.
I 100% believe management and staff want players who can save their job. Even if that means 1 step back, to eventually take steps forward. It doesn't always work. As Shurmur.
I think it comes down to this: what's a better bet, Jones leaves and makes a fool out of the Giants, or he stays and does it?
Is understanding the DJ contract. In the Lombardi thread it was said that Mara is the reason for the Jones contract. I don't know if that's true or not. BUT...
There is a seismic shift here if it's the case that Mara was the reason for the DJ extension verses Schoen. Their situation takes on a very different light if Mara forced that on them verses their own doing. DG got WAY more time than he deserved. If Mara was the force behind Jones and we're now in the situation we are, I don't see how there is any notion of hot seat. It's like --you screwed this up, now back off and and let us do our jobs.
Totally agree. If Mara is responsible for the Jones contract, then Schoen and Daboll should not be on the hot seat.
discussion is more interesting about the politics of the pick.
& I agree w/ Mike...drafting a QB gives this regime more time. That's why I'm somewhat confused when I hear that Dabs wants a WR...if we draft a WR & go 5-12 this fall, Dabs is likely out on his ass. If we got 5-12 this fall, but have a rookie QB in the wings or playing late in the season, Dabs probably gets a reprieve.
Would drafting a quarterback give Daboll and Schoen more time? Guys like Pat Shurmer and Frank Reich would beg to differ.
Reich worked for a sociopath. Shurmur was just not respected or taken all that seriously by Mara and company and they probably didn't trust him to finish the job with DJ. In retrospect he should have been given another year and then fired with Gettleman. I think Mara does genuinely like and respect Dabes and will be willing to give him more time.
On the same tier as the other three and now the Giants are going to fork over two firsts (including the 6th pick this year) and a second and more for this guy. Really stupid gamble.
But don’t worry. At least two will still be there at pick 6 and one will fall out of the top ten. Happens every year.
discussion is more interesting about the politics of the pick.
& I agree w/ Mike...drafting a QB gives this regime more time. That's why I'm somewhat confused when I hear that Dabs wants a WR...if we draft a WR & go 5-12 this fall, Dabs is likely out on his ass. If we got 5-12 this fall, but have a rookie QB in the wings or playing late in the season, Dabs probably gets a reprieve.
I disagree with all of this. A bad record next year will not cost Dabs his job. It will depend on how he gets to a bad record. Regardless of rookie QB or not. Judge and Mcadoo got fired not because of the record, but because of the perception that they had lost the team along with bizarre decision making. You can lose and not have those. You can win and have them (much less likely, but actually what happened to Coughlin). The Maras want to be the Rooneys. They want long range stability. I hope they get it.
RE: McCarthy wasn’t even being spoken about as being
On the same tier as the other three and now the Giants are going to fork over two firsts (including the 6th pick this year) and a second and more for this guy. Really stupid gamble.
But don’t worry. At least two will still be there at pick 6 and one will fall out of the top ten. Happens every year.
Eric and the majority of BBI, including me, want a new quarterback. Preferably we take one in this draft. The problem at what cost are the Giants willing to pay? I'm very reluctant to part with a one in the draft next year. I am not sold on the likes of Maye/McCarthy being that good to risk paying the price with multiple first round picks. But then again maybe the Giants are willing to pay the price to get the qb they covet.
Would you guys stop with the 'taking a QB might give them another year' nonsense. They're professional football people trying to win games and build a championship quality team.
And just a quick thought on Daboll and his supposed desire to take the WR. Is it possible, and I only ask in rhetorical sense, that he remembers that Josh Allen didn't really become Josh Allen until the Bills went out and got him a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs and further wonders if it might help DJ too! Again just spitballing here!
Wrong.
Every year, 1/4 of head coaches get fired.
They are making decisions to saving their necks.
So what are we saying now. The Giants aren't drafting a QB to replace Jones but to save the coach and GMs jobs. OK i'll buy that!
They’re drafting a QB to help win games because the current one sucks and to save their jobs.
No offense to his old man, but Chris Simms is a complete zero to me as a commentator. If his last name was Chris Smith, he'd be an accountant or something.
He would be a regular poster on BBI spouting nonsense the same way he does now. He would fit right in here.
RE: RE: McCarthy wasn’t even being spoken about as being
On the same tier as the other three and now the Giants are going to fork over two firsts (including the 6th pick this year) and a second and more for this guy. Really stupid gamble.
Spoken about by whom?
By the same draftniks who are now saying he belongs on a tier with the other three. Nobody knows what the pro scouts think of these four.
The issue with drafting a QB to save your job is the issue of the owner saying we did everything to screw up DJ. So now you gave DJ a new contract last season, now you want to trade away assets to get a new QB and put him in to throw the ball to a terrible WR group. Behind an OL that has Neal as the RT and admitted that the OL was dreadful last season. Threw a few mid tier FAs at the problem and hopefully it's fixed. Runyan was paid average starter money, less than half per year that the top Gs get. Elumenor was paid as a low end starter/backup at $7 mil a year about 1/3 what the top end guys make.
No money and no assets to get a WR or upgrade. Oh an do they save their job if they trade up to draft a QB, finish last in the league and watch our #1 overall pick go to a team we traded with?
With the way teams fire coaches these days, I dont think anything besides winning saves your job anymore.
who I have to assume are the type of fans of the Giants and NFL that they follow football 365 days a year could think that GMs and HCs don't make or lobby for draft selections based on protecting their jobs and knowing that the wrong pick will cost them their jobs.
Brandon Beane's quote about trading for Josh Allen applies to Joe Schoen this year if he convinces the Mara's to let him trade up for or draft a 1st round QB at #6.
Quote:
"We got criticized for how much we gave up for Josh, and I'm like, well if he doesn't work out I'm not gonna be here anyway...and if he does work out, nobody's gonna give a sh*t," said Beane.
RE: What advantage does a rookie QB this year give the Giants?
The issue with drafting a QB to save your job is the issue of the owner saying we did everything to screw up DJ. So now you gave DJ a new contract last season, now you want to trade away assets to get a new QB and put him in to throw the ball to a terrible WR group. Behind an OL that has Neal as the RT and admitted that the OL was dreadful last season. Threw a few mid tier FAs at the problem and hopefully it's fixed. Runyan was paid average starter money, less than half per year that the top Gs get. Elumenor was paid as a low end starter/backup at $7 mil a year about 1/3 what the top end guys make.
No money and no assets to get a WR or upgrade. Oh an do they save their job if they trade up to draft a QB, finish last in the league and watch our #1 overall pick go to a team we traded with?
With the way teams fire coaches these days, I dont think anything besides winning saves your job anymore.
Exactly why they should get a QB who can actually win them games
RE: RE: What advantage does a rookie QB this year give the Giants?
The issue with drafting a QB to save your job is the issue of the owner saying we did everything to screw up DJ. So now you gave DJ a new contract last season, now you want to trade away assets to get a new QB and put him in to throw the ball to a terrible WR group. Behind an OL that has Neal as the RT and admitted that the OL was dreadful last season. Threw a few mid tier FAs at the problem and hopefully it's fixed. Runyan was paid average starter money, less than half per year that the top Gs get. Elumenor was paid as a low end starter/backup at $7 mil a year about 1/3 what the top end guys make.
No money and no assets to get a WR or upgrade. Oh an do they save their job if they trade up to draft a QB, finish last in the league and watch our #1 overall pick go to a team we traded with?
With the way teams fire coaches these days, I dont think anything besides winning saves your job anymore.
Exactly why they should get a QB who can actually win them games
So who is that QB and what are you willing to give up to get that QB? Are you getting rid of Daniel Jones to get Daniel Jones 2.0?
Im sure Schoen and daboll would both love to have a better QB. Is a better QB in the draft? Is that player attainable?
RE: RE: RE: What advantage does a rookie QB this year give the Giants?
The issue with drafting a QB to save your job is the issue of the owner saying we did everything to screw up DJ. So now you gave DJ a new contract last season, now you want to trade away assets to get a new QB and put him in to throw the ball to a terrible WR group. Behind an OL that has Neal as the RT and admitted that the OL was dreadful last season. Threw a few mid tier FAs at the problem and hopefully it's fixed. Runyan was paid average starter money, less than half per year that the top Gs get. Elumenor was paid as a low end starter/backup at $7 mil a year about 1/3 what the top end guys make.
No money and no assets to get a WR or upgrade. Oh an do they save their job if they trade up to draft a QB, finish last in the league and watch our #1 overall pick go to a team we traded with?
With the way teams fire coaches these days, I dont think anything besides winning saves your job anymore.
Exactly why they should get a QB who can actually win them games
So who is that QB and what are you willing to give up to get that QB? Are you getting rid of Daniel Jones to get Daniel Jones 2.0?
Im sure Schoen and daboll would both love to have a better QB. Is a better QB in the draft? Is that player attainable?
Does Daniel Jones 2.0 have a healthy neck, a healthy knee, and a rookie contract cap hit?
Because Daniel Jones 1.0 has none of those things and might never again.
RE: RE: RE: What advantage does a rookie QB this year give the Giants?
The issue with drafting a QB to save your job is the issue of the owner saying we did everything to screw up DJ. So now you gave DJ a new contract last season, now you want to trade away assets to get a new QB and put him in to throw the ball to a terrible WR group. Behind an OL that has Neal as the RT and admitted that the OL was dreadful last season. Threw a few mid tier FAs at the problem and hopefully it's fixed. Runyan was paid average starter money, less than half per year that the top Gs get. Elumenor was paid as a low end starter/backup at $7 mil a year about 1/3 what the top end guys make.
No money and no assets to get a WR or upgrade. Oh an do they save their job if they trade up to draft a QB, finish last in the league and watch our #1 overall pick go to a team we traded with?
With the way teams fire coaches these days, I dont think anything besides winning saves your job anymore.
Exactly why they should get a QB who can actually win them games
So who is that QB and what are you willing to give up to get that QB? Are you getting rid of Daniel Jones to get Daniel Jones 2.0?
Im sure Schoen and daboll would both love to have a better QB. Is a better QB in the draft? Is that player attainable?
Any of the top 4 are instantly better than Jones imo, and i'd give up the 25 1 to move up to get them.
The "Daniel Jones 2.0" thing is overblown, the top 4 are all better prospects than Jones was. But more importantly it gives BD a chance to mold a raw qb. Jones has the same problems today (plus the injuries) as noted on his scouting reports in early 2019, but I'm sure a new wr is going to finally change that 🙄
No offense to his old man, but Chris Simms is a complete zero to me as a commentator. If his last name was Chris Smith, he'd be an accountant or something.
Really?
I think he's ok. Don't always agree with him, but I feel he's fair with his takes as he's played the position.
Could not agree more
I don't dislike Simms, actually. But whenever he says he's talking to people around the league and something to the effect of "people are with me, they're not saying I'm crazy about player x. I'll bet player y goes first"....take that with a major grain of salt.
He said the same thing last year with Will Anderson and his boy Tyree Wilson.
& I agree w/ Mike...drafting a QB gives this regime more time. That's why I'm somewhat confused when I hear that Dabs wants a WR...if we draft a WR & go 5-12 this fall, Dabs is likely out on his ass. If we got 5-12 this fall, but have a rookie QB in the wings or playing late in the season, Dabs probably gets a reprieve.
Quote:
discussion is more interesting about the politics of the pick.
& I agree w/ Mike...drafting a QB gives this regime more time. That's why I'm somewhat confused when I hear that Dabs wants a WR...if we draft a WR & go 5-12 this fall, Dabs is likely out on his ass. If we got 5-12 this fall, but have a rookie QB in the wings or playing late in the season, Dabs probably gets a reprieve.
Would drafting a quarterback give Daboll and Schoen more time? Guys like Pat Shurmer and Frank Reich would beg to differ.
And just a quick thought on Daboll and his supposed desire to take the WR. Is it possible, and I only ask in rhetorical sense, that he remembers that Josh Allen didn't really become Josh Allen until the Bills went out and got him a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs and further wonders if it might help DJ too! Again just spitballing here!
And just a quick thought on Daboll and his supposed desire to take the WR. Is it possible, and I only ask in rhetorical sense, that he remembers that Josh Allen didn't really become Josh Allen until the Bills went out and got him a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs and further wonders if it might help DJ too! Again just spitballing here!
Wrong.
Every year, 1/4 of head coaches get fired.
They are making decisions to saving their necks.
Quote:
Would you guys stop with the 'taking a QB might give them another year' nonsense. They're professional football people trying to win games and build a championship quality team.
And just a quick thought on Daboll and his supposed desire to take the WR. Is it possible, and I only ask in rhetorical sense, that he remembers that Josh Allen didn't really become Josh Allen until the Bills went out and got him a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs and further wonders if it might help DJ too! Again just spitballing here!
Wrong.
Every year, 1/4 of head coaches get fired.
They are making decisions to saving their necks.
So what are we saying now. The Giants aren't drafting a QB to replace Jones but to save the coach and GMs jobs. OK i'll buy that!
The Risks of Tripling Down on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 16464150 Snorkels said:
Quote:
Would you guys stop with the 'taking a QB might give them another year' nonsense. They're professional football people trying to win games and build a championship quality team.
And just a quick thought on Daboll and his supposed desire to take the WR. Is it possible, and I only ask in rhetorical sense, that he remembers that Josh Allen didn't really become Josh Allen until the Bills went out and got him a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs and further wonders if it might help DJ too! Again just spitballing here!
Wrong.
Every year, 1/4 of head coaches get fired.
They are making decisions to saving their necks.
So what are we saying now. The Giants aren't drafting a QB to replace Jones but to save the coach and GMs jobs. OK i'll buy that!
Both can be true simultaneously, believe it or not.
There is a seismic shift here if it's the case that Mara was the reason for the DJ extension verses Schoen. Their situation takes on a very different light if Mara forced that on them verses their own doing. DG got WAY more time than he deserved. If Mara was the force behind Jones and we're now in the situation we are, I don't see how there is any notion of hot seat. It's like --you screwed this up, now back off and and let us do our jobs.
This wouldn’t surprise me, but I also know you’re a key member of the DJFC and desperately want him to gifted a sixth year of mediocrity. Hopefully the giants are smarter than you
You probably should *checks notes* not be spending your time on a giants fan discussion forum then ffs.
Quote:
I am so, SO sick of weeding through post after post after post about Daniel FUCKING Jones.
You probably should *checks notes* not be spending your time on a giants fan discussion forum then ffs.
Piss off.
Quote:
Since we're all going to start throwing around stupid conspiracy theories I have one. The team knows they aren't going to get one of the top 4 QBs, but they're still doing all the due diligence, and very publicly at that, so that when they end up taking a WR at #6 they can say to the disgruntled fam base: see we tried everything we could but we just couldn't make it happen.
This wouldn’t surprise me, but I also know you’re a key member of the DJFC and desperately want him to gifted a sixth year of mediocrity. Hopefully the giants are smarter than you
You couldn't be more wrong LW. First, I am a huge DJ fan insofar as he's the Giansts starting QB and I will be until the Giants get somebody better. I do like DJ far more than the mob here because I think that he has some genuine tools and can be a suuccessful QB in the league if he has a decent cast around him which he's never had so how the fuck does anybody know what he'd do with one.
At the same time, I am also 100% in on the Giants taking a QB this year. I am not naive enough to think that DJ is in the elite category and if you get a chance to select a QB with that kind of potential you take it because you never know when you'll get the chance again. I am also not that naive that DJ's injury history, especially the neck is really worrisome.
I am also not naive enough to think that if the Giants do take one of those draft QBs I should order my Super Bowl tickets, because the likelihood that that guy is going to be the next coming of Allen or Herbert is all that high so I like to keep all my options open.
So if a QB does end up available at 6 I'll dance all the way to the bank, but I am also smart enough and realistic enough to see that it is growing more and more likely that QBs are going 1-2-3-4 with the Giants being left behind. And yeah I know people have been posting for weeks about possible trades and all that but most of them are only going to happen in their dreams.
I am also aware that there is more than one way to build a football team. Obviously you can upgrade at QB but you can also work to upgrade around the guy you have. And when life gives me lemons I make lemonade and know that if the Giants don't get a QB they are still going to be in a position to get a very very good player with legitimate elite potential and lord knows the Giants can use all the elite impact players they can get.
It's not a "conspiracy" theory to say that GMs and HCs make personnel decisions to save their own necks. They aren't going to sit around after they are fired and say, "well hey, I did right by the team."
This isn't just coming from me. This is widely talked about by the pundits (and has been for years).
You don't like it because it's "not the right thing to do"... but these are human beings living in the real world with their own self interest.
"He just stinks."
I tried and tried and tried.
Quote:
.... The Risks of Tripling Down on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
"He just stinks."
I tried and tried and tried.
I almost forgot that I named that section after you!
Quote:
.... The Risks of Tripling Down on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
"He just stinks."
I tried and tried and tried.
Ah yes, a little in-depth, thoughtful analysis to really add to the discussion.
I think it comes down to this: what's a better bet, Jones leaves and makes a fool out of the Giants, or he stays and does it?
There is a seismic shift here if it's the case that Mara was the reason for the DJ extension verses Schoen. Their situation takes on a very different light if Mara forced that on them verses their own doing. DG got WAY more time than he deserved. If Mara was the force behind Jones and we're now in the situation we are, I don't see how there is any notion of hot seat. It's like --you screwed this up, now back off and and let us do our jobs.
Totally agree. If Mara is responsible for the Jones contract, then Schoen and Daboll should not be on the hot seat.
I don't view it as tripling down. It's not like passing on drafting a QB this year precludes them from drafting a QB next year.
They can have their cake (draft an elite WR, give DJ one more year with an improved cast) and eat it too (draft a QB next year if DJ busts).
Quote:
In comment 16464110 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
discussion is more interesting about the politics of the pick.
& I agree w/ Mike...drafting a QB gives this regime more time. That's why I'm somewhat confused when I hear that Dabs wants a WR...if we draft a WR & go 5-12 this fall, Dabs is likely out on his ass. If we got 5-12 this fall, but have a rookie QB in the wings or playing late in the season, Dabs probably gets a reprieve.
Would drafting a quarterback give Daboll and Schoen more time? Guys like Pat Shurmer and Frank Reich would beg to differ.
Reich worked for a sociopath. Shurmur was just not respected or taken all that seriously by Mara and company and they probably didn't trust him to finish the job with DJ. In retrospect he should have been given another year and then fired with Gettleman. I think Mara does genuinely like and respect Dabes and will be willing to give him more time.
But don’t worry. At least two will still be there at pick 6 and one will fall out of the top ten. Happens every year.
Quote:
.... The Risks of Tripling Down on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
I don't view it as tripling down. It's not like passing on drafting a QB this year precludes them from drafting a QB next year.
They can have their cake (draft an elite WR, give DJ one more year with an improved cast) and eat it too (draft a QB next year if DJ busts).
I disagree 100%. If they give DJ one more year and he fails Daboll is unemployed and JS may not be far behind.
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discussion is more interesting about the politics of the pick.
& I agree w/ Mike...drafting a QB gives this regime more time. That's why I'm somewhat confused when I hear that Dabs wants a WR...if we draft a WR & go 5-12 this fall, Dabs is likely out on his ass. If we got 5-12 this fall, but have a rookie QB in the wings or playing late in the season, Dabs probably gets a reprieve.
I disagree with all of this. A bad record next year will not cost Dabs his job. It will depend on how he gets to a bad record. Regardless of rookie QB or not. Judge and Mcadoo got fired not because of the record, but because of the perception that they had lost the team along with bizarre decision making. You can lose and not have those. You can win and have them (much less likely, but actually what happened to Coughlin). The Maras want to be the Rooneys. They want long range stability. I hope they get it.
But don’t worry. At least two will still be there at pick 6 and one will fall out of the top ten. Happens every year.
Spoken about by whom?
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In comment 16464150 Snorkels said:
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Would you guys stop with the 'taking a QB might give them another year' nonsense. They're professional football people trying to win games and build a championship quality team.
And just a quick thought on Daboll and his supposed desire to take the WR. Is it possible, and I only ask in rhetorical sense, that he remembers that Josh Allen didn't really become Josh Allen until the Bills went out and got him a #1 WR in Stefon Diggs and further wonders if it might help DJ too! Again just spitballing here!
Wrong.
Every year, 1/4 of head coaches get fired.
They are making decisions to saving their necks.
So what are we saying now. The Giants aren't drafting a QB to replace Jones but to save the coach and GMs jobs. OK i'll buy that!
They’re drafting a QB to help win games because the current one sucks and to save their jobs.
He would be a regular poster on BBI spouting nonsense the same way he does now. He would fit right in here.
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On the same tier as the other three and now the Giants are going to fork over two firsts (including the 6th pick this year) and a second and more for this guy. Really stupid gamble.
Spoken about by whom?
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.... The Risks of Tripling Down on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
I don't view it as tripling down. It's not like passing on drafting a QB this year precludes them from drafting a QB next year.
They can have their cake (draft an elite WR, give DJ one more year with an improved cast) and eat it too (draft a QB next year if DJ busts).
You're assuming they survive 2024. That's the point of the article.
No money and no assets to get a WR or upgrade. Oh an do they save their job if they trade up to draft a QB, finish last in the league and watch our #1 overall pick go to a team we traded with?
With the way teams fire coaches these days, I dont think anything besides winning saves your job anymore.
Brandon Beane's quote about trading for Josh Allen applies to Joe Schoen this year if he convinces the Mara's to let him trade up for or draft a 1st round QB at #6.
No money and no assets to get a WR or upgrade. Oh an do they save their job if they trade up to draft a QB, finish last in the league and watch our #1 overall pick go to a team we traded with?
With the way teams fire coaches these days, I dont think anything besides winning saves your job anymore.
Exactly why they should get a QB who can actually win them games
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The issue with drafting a QB to save your job is the issue of the owner saying we did everything to screw up DJ. So now you gave DJ a new contract last season, now you want to trade away assets to get a new QB and put him in to throw the ball to a terrible WR group. Behind an OL that has Neal as the RT and admitted that the OL was dreadful last season. Threw a few mid tier FAs at the problem and hopefully it's fixed. Runyan was paid average starter money, less than half per year that the top Gs get. Elumenor was paid as a low end starter/backup at $7 mil a year about 1/3 what the top end guys make.
No money and no assets to get a WR or upgrade. Oh an do they save their job if they trade up to draft a QB, finish last in the league and watch our #1 overall pick go to a team we traded with?
With the way teams fire coaches these days, I dont think anything besides winning saves your job anymore.
Exactly why they should get a QB who can actually win them games
So who is that QB and what are you willing to give up to get that QB? Are you getting rid of Daniel Jones to get Daniel Jones 2.0?
Im sure Schoen and daboll would both love to have a better QB. Is a better QB in the draft? Is that player attainable?
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In comment 16464595 Rudy5757 said:
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The issue with drafting a QB to save your job is the issue of the owner saying we did everything to screw up DJ. So now you gave DJ a new contract last season, now you want to trade away assets to get a new QB and put him in to throw the ball to a terrible WR group. Behind an OL that has Neal as the RT and admitted that the OL was dreadful last season. Threw a few mid tier FAs at the problem and hopefully it's fixed. Runyan was paid average starter money, less than half per year that the top Gs get. Elumenor was paid as a low end starter/backup at $7 mil a year about 1/3 what the top end guys make.
No money and no assets to get a WR or upgrade. Oh an do they save their job if they trade up to draft a QB, finish last in the league and watch our #1 overall pick go to a team we traded with?
With the way teams fire coaches these days, I dont think anything besides winning saves your job anymore.
Exactly why they should get a QB who can actually win them games
So who is that QB and what are you willing to give up to get that QB? Are you getting rid of Daniel Jones to get Daniel Jones 2.0?
Im sure Schoen and daboll would both love to have a better QB. Is a better QB in the draft? Is that player attainable?
Does Daniel Jones 2.0 have a healthy neck, a healthy knee, and a rookie contract cap hit?
Because Daniel Jones 1.0 has none of those things and might never again.
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In comment 16464595 Rudy5757 said:
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The issue with drafting a QB to save your job is the issue of the owner saying we did everything to screw up DJ. So now you gave DJ a new contract last season, now you want to trade away assets to get a new QB and put him in to throw the ball to a terrible WR group. Behind an OL that has Neal as the RT and admitted that the OL was dreadful last season. Threw a few mid tier FAs at the problem and hopefully it's fixed. Runyan was paid average starter money, less than half per year that the top Gs get. Elumenor was paid as a low end starter/backup at $7 mil a year about 1/3 what the top end guys make.
No money and no assets to get a WR or upgrade. Oh an do they save their job if they trade up to draft a QB, finish last in the league and watch our #1 overall pick go to a team we traded with?
With the way teams fire coaches these days, I dont think anything besides winning saves your job anymore.
Exactly why they should get a QB who can actually win them games
So who is that QB and what are you willing to give up to get that QB? Are you getting rid of Daniel Jones to get Daniel Jones 2.0?
Im sure Schoen and daboll would both love to have a better QB. Is a better QB in the draft? Is that player attainable?
Any of the top 4 are instantly better than Jones imo, and i'd give up the 25 1 to move up to get them.
The "Daniel Jones 2.0" thing is overblown, the top 4 are all better prospects than Jones was. But more importantly it gives BD a chance to mold a raw qb. Jones has the same problems today (plus the injuries) as noted on his scouting reports in early 2019, but I'm sure a new wr is going to finally change that 🙄
Really?
I think he's ok. Don't always agree with him, but I feel he's fair with his takes as he's played the position.