Just a hypothetical about job security. Imagine you are Brian Daboll and you and your advisors look at the history of your employer.
You are the first head coach to get a third year since 2006. And even that head coach was reportedly nearly fired after his third year.
Your immediate predecessors (three of them) were all fired after two years.
You had an unexpectedly good first year, and presumably endorsed investing in Jones. He got battered, and allegedly has lingering issues from his neck and shoulder.
You can influence management, and there three possibilities.
1) Stick with your original position Jones is the guy, and not draft a quarterback who will meaningfully compete with him
2) Hedge your bet, keep Jones, but draft a quarterback who can meaningfully compete with him
3) Let Jones go and bet on the new guy
Again, if you're just trying to ensure you get a 4th year, what would you pick?
If the rookie or Lock starts the season, do you think they ever go back to Jones?
Different question, assuming now this has nothing to do with maximizing his job retention potential.
If Lock starts the season and ‘fails’, would think they go to the rookie QB and stick it out with him - trial by fire.
If the rookie QB starts the season (you said Jones ‘wasn’t ready’) and fails or is injured, I think it’s Lock for the duration.
I guess my gut feeling is if Jones is not ready at the start of the season AND they have drafted a QB, then Jones will not take another snap as Giants QB
All on the topic of job retention. I think Daboll can do two things to ensure he's the coach in 2025.
1) Compete for a playoff spot late into the season
2) Show he's developing a young quarterback that gives the franchise hope
I am not saying he'd get fired if those two things don't happen. But short of that I think it's on the table. I don't see how benching the rookie or Lock in place of Jones is a good bet for Daboll.
If the rookie or Lock starts the season, do you think they ever go back to Jones?
I'm sure it depends how Lock plays. I think Daboll sees something in Lock he can work with if Jones isn't ready to start though. Also I have a feeling this is the way it plays out (But I'm just a dumb fan lol).
1) Giants stay pat at #6 or move to 4 or 5 and end up with either Maye or McCarthy.
2) If 4 QBs go right away and the trade up is too much, we draft Jim Nabors.
3) Lock starts the season (DJ not ready).
1) Giants stay pat at #6 or move to 4 or 5 and end up with either Maye or McCarthy.
2) If 4 QBs go right away and the trade up is too much, we draft Jim Nabors.
3) Lock starts the season (DJ not ready).
I don't disagree those are potential, or even likely outcomes.
If I was Daboll, I'd be scared shitless going into a big year for my career with Lock and Jones. Imagine how the fans and media would react if they pick Nabers and Jones performs like he has so far.
I mean it's amazing they didn't draft him in 2020.
There was NFK after falling full bloom in love with Jones because he looked good at a Senior Bowl practice, and then proceeding to have a decent rookie year, that Gettleman was going to pivot to a new QB after one year. And Mara certainly wasn't going to endorse that.
And you know damn well the brass were all salivating at the thought of a healthy Barkley, a highly valued rookie LT, and a second year QB with experience heading into 2020.
Amazing doesn't apply here...
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I'm sure it depends how Lock plays. I think Daboll sees something in Lock he can work with if Jones isn't ready to start though. Also I have a feeling this is the way it plays out (But I'm just a dumb fan lol).
1) Giants stay pat at #6 or move to 4 or 5 and end up with either Maye or McCarthy.
2) If 4 QBs go right away and the trade up is too much, we draft Jim Nabors.
3) Lock starts the season (DJ not ready).
I don't disagree those are potential, or even likely outcomes.
If I was Daboll, I'd be scared shitless going into a big year for my career with Lock and Jones. Imagine how the fans and media would react if they pick Nabers and Jones performs like he has so far.
Totally agree, but I have a feeling Mara has given his full support to Shane and Davoli to fix this mess. It makes me think these guys are looking long term and they are not going to force something on a QB this year without crazy conviction on someone they think can be had at 4 or 5 (or even 3 depending on what the Pats do). If Jones really does recover he is not long term "the guy" likely, but Davoli has already shown he can win with him. If Lock is on par with DJ I won't be sad to end up with any of the WR or even Dallas Turner for that matter.
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Let's say the take a WR and run with Jones/Lock and go 4-13
Daboll fired. Jones cut. Rookie QB drafted April 2025 and is going to be starting immediately with a new HC. 2025 probably has a lot of growing pains, meaning the first 2 years of that WRs rookie contract are wasted, with the 5YO decision looming after 2026.
Ok, let's take QB 4 or 5. That QB sits because he has bad footwork or throwing technique issues or is a little slow reading NFL defenses. (reasonable level of growing pains)
They go 4-13? Is Daboll still fired?
What is the difference except they have a QB of questionable ability (unproven)?
Is BD still fired? It's a non-zero chance but much less than watching Jones suck again. If the rookie QB shows growth in the games he starts then no I don't think BD would be fired short of a Judgian meltdown
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In comment 16465066 Go Terps said:
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I wasn't sold on Herbert so I didn't know that I would have drafted him at the time. But knowing that the Giants loved Herbert, it's amazing to me they didn't draft him.
The red flags with Jones were visible at the end of 2019.
Herbert decided to stay at Oregon, unfortunately.
I mean it's amazing they didn't draft him in 2020.
You and I both were on record to draft JH, regardless of Jones. Unfortunately ...
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I mean it's amazing they didn't draft him in 2020.
There was NFK after falling full bloom in love with Jones because he looked good at a Senior Bowl practice, and then proceeding to have a decent rookie year, that Gettleman was going to pivot to a new QB after one year. And Mara certainly wasn't going to endorse that.
And you know damn well the brass were all salivating at the thought of a healthy Barkley, a highly valued rookie LT, and a second year QB with experience heading into 2020.
Amazing doesn't apply here...
"He looked like a professional quartaback."
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And make the best of things until he can be reasonably replaced.
If your job was on the line, would you comfortable if that reasonable replacement wasn't available until 2025?
I wouldn't like it, but it's better to build a sound team than swing for the fences to try to buy another year before you're fired anyway.
Also - if Schoen's job was actually on the line, the Giants would've been better off firing him and Daboll and starting over, to get the GM, HC, and QB all on the same timeline.
That's the Jones experience. He's too unreliable, but he convinces everyone.
We'd have been better off if they had stripped the team for parts in 2022. Much better off.
Can you sell hope with Jones?
The question in this thread, is if you were Daboll and you could influence management, what choice do you think would best preserve your job.
Convince management that you need to take a quarterback but you're only going to take the right quarterback.
If the right quarterback is not available and you stand Pat at the position it's not because you wanted to... But you had promised management not to reach.
You go into the season having not drafted a starter at the position making sure management understands that you play your best ball you try again next year.
If they reach for a QB they are unsure of and he doesn't pan out or it causes them to pass on better prospects in future drafts. Then they are going to be fired.
Can you sell hope with Jones?
I was thinking this today. It would be so unpleasant as a fan watching Jones next season. No hope. No progression. I'd be just counting down until the 2025 draft.
Jones isn't the long term answer everyone knows it. I'm confident Schoen will come away with one of Maye, McCarthy, Penix or Nix. It needs to happen.
If they reach for a QB they are unsure of and he doesn't pan out or it causes them to pass on better prospects in future drafts. Then they are going to be fired.
If they stick with Jones and he fails in year 6 they're toast as well
I would be just as happy if we cut Jones as a post-June move as I would be if we took a QB in the lottery.
This is what I would rather do than watch Jones play QB again...
If they don't draft a viable replacement, the coaching staff and Jones will get ripped apart for every misstep by the fans and media. If they do draft a viable replacement, the fans and media will be calling to play the rookie from the start.
And then add in Jones is recovering and either will need time to ramp up or miss some games to start. If Lock or a rookie is playing well, are they really going to sit them for Jones?
If a rookie wins the starting job over Lock in camp, are they really going to impede his development to play Jones?
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I think the fan base is so disenchanted with Jones, the majority is in the "anyone but Jones" column. They'll give a lot of grace to Daboll with a rookie, and virtually none with Jones. Every snap Jones takes will be under intense scrutiny.
I would be just as happy if we cut Jones as a post-June move as I would be if we took a QB in the lottery.
This is what I would rather do than watch Jones play QB again...
And the nominees for the most truly utterly stupid comment on the BBI are ....
Wait, I thought you didn't have Internet access in Arizona. Did you move?
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I think the fan base is so disenchanted with Jones, the majority is in the "anyone but Jones" column. They'll give a lot of grace to Daboll with a rookie, and virtually none with Jones. Every snap Jones takes will be under intense scrutiny.
I would be just as happy if we cut Jones as a post-June move as I would be if we took a QB in the lottery.
This is what I would rather do than watch Jones play QB again...
Likewise. There is nothing left to learn about Jones. the evaluation is over. We'd be better off kicking the tires on Malik Willis.