What about Joe Milton?

Well, Sy's ceiling dude might have won MVP in '17 if he didn't get injured so it's possibly worth a flyer on him later on in the draft.

I really like Travis Daniels, but I might be in the minority on that one.

I've been touting him and this strategy for weeks now. That the best WR at #6 and look at Milton at round 3. He's got Josh Allen size, good athleticism, and a cannon for an arm. Perfect match with Hyatt's long speed.

He's toolsy and teachable. Only knock on him is he's not young(already 24) but then again so is Nix and Penix.

I really don't see much of a difference between Milton and Anthony Richardson who ended up being a 1st rounder last year.

I'd like to see if he can out throw our receivers.

Process the field well. Perhaps that could be improved but I don’t think he’s worth a second round pick. Maybe third or fourth

In comment 16465701 RomanWH said:

Quote:

I've been touting him and this strategy for weeks now. That the best WR at #6 and look at Milton at round 3. He's got Josh Allen size, good athleticism, and a cannon for an arm. Perfect match with Hyatt's long speed. He's toolsy and teachable. Only knock on him is he's not young(already 24) but then again so is Nix and Penix. I really don't see much of a difference between Milton and Anthony Richardson who ended up being a 1st rounder last year.

Richardson is a better athlete by an order of magnitude. It’s not even close

in round 3 or 4 doesn't stop Schoen from looking at QB again in 2025. You get Milton into the QB room and let Kafka/Shea develop him over this year. If the coaches don't think he can be the man going forward, the front office can go get their QB in the 2025 draft class. Milton can be a backup on a cheap mid round rookie contract.

Daboll is supposed to be the QB guru. He made chicken salad out of chicken shit with DJones in 2022. Imagine you give him a better starting lump of clay to work with and mold. Milton already is healthier(no neck problems) and has a much stronger arm than DJones. If we go WR at #6 and are looking to the later rounds for a QB, why not take a swing for the fences in terms of prospect ceiling?

If you draft him, you should play him. Cut Jones as a post 6/1 and then go into the season with Lock & Milton.

I don't see the benefit of taking a mid round guy just to bury him on the depth chart when they'll likely be right back in the QB market next year assuming they don't go QB at 6.

I have him as QB7 for a long time. A lot of what people complain about I don't agree with, but one thing I notice is his feet seem slow in the pocket.

You can replace the 2027 next to Jones with 2025.

If you think we're shopping hungry now...

We won't know if people are talking about him or me.

But in all serious, he's another example of how much disagreement there is over the QB rankings. He's Sy's QB7 and Waldmen's QB16. Meanwhile THR has him as QB10 and GBN has him as QB8.

STRENGTHS
Joe is my sleeper QB pick in this draft. He has the size, athletic talent, and strong-arm arrogance to be a dominating quarterback for the team that selects him. He has the size and strength to break tackles and move the chains if he is asked to do that. He stands strong in the pocket and is very accurate in throwing the ball from the pocket. If teams are looking for the next Josh Allen…Joe is the one. Joe can make plays in the passing game that will make you think that he is an Alien, not born of this world. He can run over and punish defenses as well as, run away from opponents like a Moose looking for a mate, at that time of the season. He has the accuracy and strong arm that goes along with the arrogance of throwing the ball right past 2 safeties 50 yards on a rope, to move the chains on a third and 22. Joe can manipulate the pocket to extend plays and is very accurate when he has to reset and throw the ball. He is a remarkable talent with good football intelligence and the competitiveness that will make him be considered as a potential franchise quarterback.

CONCERNS
Joe has a knee injury that will need to be looked at. He also has that arm arrogance issue that I mentioned, which will lead to interceptions at the next level until he learns otherwise. He must also convince teams of his ability to play quarterback from under center. He will have to show teams he has the mechanics of dropping and setting up from center, and throwing with accuracy and the rhythm needed to play in that style of offense. I think the biggest concern for teams will be that Joe at times, and for his size, has a very low release point that affects his accuracy and that will get his passes knocked down or tipped, at the line of scrimmage.

BOTTOM LINE: 1.50
How long will it take for teams to feel that Joe can get on the field, and be productive is one of the keys to where teams will select him in this draft. His knee injury, his football IQ, and the Senior Bowl should answer all of these concerns. If you look at his film you will see a quarterback who plays with the style and talent as the Buffalo Bills Josh Allen. I saw Joe play before he got injured and I could not believe no one was talking about him at all with the top quarterbacks in this draft, hopefully after the Senior Bowl that will change for him. I know if I’m looking for a franchise quarterback, he would be a top-ten pick for sure. But that’s just me, and I won’t lose my job if I’m wrong so right now, Joe is a watch and see what happens to him type of player. But I’ll bet after the Senior Bowl and workouts he will become an “I told you so” …type of player.
The Huddle Report - ( New Window )

Richardson's processing was supposedly really good in college and, combined with the arm strength and running ability (needs to learn to avoid contact though) made it very enticing for Ballard and Steichen. Plus he was 20 turning 21. Milton is 24.

Can’t read the field
Has no touch
Doesn’t process defenses
Average runner at best

Looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane

looked very good throwing at the Combine. I assume they could get a pretty good scouting report from Hyatt.

I’d like then to take a flier on him later. Probably won’t work out but worth the shot to try and develop.

is that he sucks at QB...other than that all systems go!

In comment 16465758 Toth029 said:

Quote:

Richardson's processing was supposedly really good in college and, combined with the arm strength and running ability (needs to learn to avoid contact though) made it very enticing for Ballard and Steichen. Plus he was 20 turning 21. Milton is 24.

In 2022, Richardson played in 12 games. He went 176 for 327 good for 53.8 completion %, 2,549 passing yards. 17:9 TD:INT.

Richardson rushed for 656 yards and 9 TDs.

In 2023, Milton played in 12 games. He went 229 for 354 good for 64.7 completion %, 2813 passing yards. 20:5 TD:INT.

Milton rushed for 299 yards and 7 TDs.

If there was really good processing by AR, I guess it didn't translate into stats too well. I mean yeah he ran with the ball for more yards but the Milton was more efficient throwing the ball. And age is a knock for a number of prospects both this year and last(I do recall a number of people calling for us to take Hendon Hooker).

Milton was in college for 6 years though. He really never improved.

He has a cannon for an arm but doesn’t do really anything else well.

If we have “QB Whisperers” in Daboll, Kafka and Tierney (inability to fix D Jones aside), drafting a “fixer upper” late Day 2 or early Day 3 QB (assuming WR with 6th overall and Penix & Nix long gone by #47) is very intriguing to me.

I'm taking Joe Milton over anyone...

Quarterback position? Hard pass... There is a very good reason that he only started 1 of 6 collegiate seasons... Despite being a massive recruit, he was benched for Cade McNamara...

Don't let the massive arm fool you... He can't hit the broad side of the barn on most throws... He is not a good QB

In comment 16465792 JT039 said:

Quote:

Milton was in college for 6 years though. He really never improved. He has a cannon for an arm but doesn’t do really anything else well.

He was at Michigan as a backup for his first two years. Was the starter in year 3 but COVID happened. He transferred to Tenn and was named starter. Got hurt in his second game and was Wally Pipp'd by Hendon Hooker. Hooker was the man in 2022 until he tore his ACL. Milton finished out the season as starter and won the Orange Bowl vs #7 Clemson (251 yards passing, 3 TDs). Named Orange Bowl MVP. He then finally got his shot this past year and put up the stats I referenced above. Respectable and solid.

The 6 years in college is true but it doesn't tell the whole tale.

Look, I'm not delusional. Milton is a middle round prospect. I'm not advocating for him at #6. But to dismiss him outright for some of the reasons others have mentioned when it would only cost a 3rd-4th rounder. It's perplexing. Like Sy's profile write-up is literally in Eric's OP saying he's his 7th best QB prospect and there are still those who think he sucks.

I read somewhere today, that some teams are looking to transition him to a TE.

The Giants have too many other needs than to speculate on a late-round QB who is not likely to be part of the future.
If the Giants do not go QB with their first pick then they should wait until next year.

the Giants are at an all time low...

didn't have warts, he would go in the first round.

The question is do you take a flier on him because if you can mold him, he has the tools you dream about for an NFL QB?

As Sy said, definition of boom or bust.

In the draft

In comment 16465851 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

didn't have warts, he would go in the first round. The question is do you take a flier on him because if you can mold him, he has the tools you dream about for an NFL QB? As Sy said, definition of boom or bust.

Playing connect the dots here.

Joe Schoen saved last month the real value at QB was in the middle of this years draft.


Milton on Kay Adam’s recently says to Joe something like , you throw your first NFL touchdown to Hyatt, does Daboll let you do the backflip?

In comment 16465724 Sean said:

Quote:

If you draft him, you should play him. Cut Jones as a post 6/1 and then go into the season with Lock & Milton. I don't see the benefit of taking a mid round guy just to bury him on the depth chart when they'll likely be right back in the QB market next year assuming they don't go QB at 6.

Well, he doesn't have to start in order to not be buried. There's a good chance that a 1st round QB wouldn't start either. Why change that for a 3rd round, or later, pick?

But he has the traits/upside I’d want to gamble on.

If we don’t get someone in RD1 I’ve been eyeing him RD3, provided they move on quick next season if they don’t see it.

for a later round QB.

we do not go QB rounds 1 or 2 I would certainly entertain the idea of taking him in round 3.

In comment 16465879 gogiants said:

Quote:

for a later round QB.

I could get behind this. The more interesting project to me, however, is Pratt.

He's the possible Brock Purdy of this draft, not Daniel Jones, V2, which is just a lazy comp.

Pratt has been a much more accomplished QB than Jones was in college.

Then I hope we don't take a QB until rd 5 or later. We have too many holes. We could get a quality rotational RB in rd 4 or even 5 for instance.

In comment 16465935 BleedBlue46 said:

Quote:

Then I hope we don't take a QB until rd 5 or later. We have too many holes. We could get a quality rotational RB in rd 4 or even 5 for instance.

I agree. Either have the conviction to go full throttle and take one in the first round, or punt on the decision until next year. We don't have enough draft picks to take a flier on a guy like Milton in the 3rd round.

In comment 16465879 gogiants said:

Quote:

for a later round QB.

Boylhart would agree with you that Travis is a talent. Refers to him as a Mahommes/Doug Flutie clone, high football IQ and 1st round talent. Dang! Sign me up for Travis over Milton for big swing!
Boylhart -Jordan Travis Sleeper QB - ( New Window )

to both.

Why not he's has the tools. Maybe we get diamond in the rough.

In comment 16465819 RomanWH said:

Quote:

In comment 16465792 JT039 said: Quote: Milton was in college for 6 years though. He really never improved. He has a cannon for an arm but doesn’t do really anything else well. He was at Michigan as a backup for his first two years. Was the starter in year 3 but COVID happened. He transferred to Tenn and was named starter. Got hurt in his second game and was Wally Pipp'd by Hendon Hooker. Hooker was the man in 2022 until he tore his ACL. Milton finished out the season as starter and won the Orange Bowl vs #7 Clemson (251 yards passing, 3 TDs). Named Orange Bowl MVP. He then finally got his shot this past year and put up the stats I referenced above. Respectable and solid. The 6 years in college is true but it doesn't tell the whole tale. Look, I'm not delusional. Milton is a middle round prospect. I'm not advocating for him at #6. But to dismiss him outright for some of the reasons others have mentioned when it would only cost a 3rd-4th rounder. It's perplexing. Like Sy's profile write-up is literally in Eric's OP saying he's his 7th best QB prospect and there are still those who think he sucks.

COVID had nothing to do with Joe Milton getting benched for Cade McNamara... He was benched because he made poor decisions and couldn't lead the offense... Put Joe Milton on the '21 Michigan and they aren't doing what they did behind McNamara...

And it's not terribly surprising that Tennessee had a fantastic season behind Hendon Hooker in '22, but couldn't beat a ranked opponent in '23 behind Milton and played their best game of the year by far behind true freshman QB, Nico Iamaleava...

Joe Milton is more fool's gold than he is a "boom or bust" prospect... Someone will draft him and think they can get out of him what Harbaugh and Heupel could not... But wasting a RD3 or RD4 on him would be truly foolish...

In comment 16465968 MojoEd said:

Quote:

In comment 16465879 gogiants said: for a later round QB. Boylhart would agree with you that Travis is a talent. Refers to him as a Mahommes/Doug Flutie clone, high football IQ and 1st round talent. Dang! Sign me up for Travis over Milton for big swing! Boylhart -Jordan Travis Sleeper QB - ( New Window )

i know stats are not everything but they do tell a piece of the story. since 2000 here are the college quarterbacks that had a career

Completion Pct 60%
Passing TDs 50
Td:int ratio 3
Int % < 2.1
Passer Rate 150
Rushing Avg 4.5 yds/att
pass y/a 8.4

Jayden Daniels
Jordan Travis
Jalen Hurts
Marcus Mariota
Andrew Luck

red flag on Marcus Mariotta was that he had no red flags. Too good to be true.

In comment 16465792 JT039 said:

Quote:

Milton was in college for 6 years though. He really never improved. He has a cannon for an arm but doesn’t do really anything else well.

^
This. And it should have ended the thread.

When is the last time a guy like this became something at QB? To me, he's the poster boy for how that position is more than just the sum of the athletic parts. He's the Anti Brock Purdy.

He got benched cause he sucked.

In comment 16465851 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

didn't have warts, he would go in the first round. The question is do you take a flier on him because if you can mold him, he has the tools you dream about for an NFL QB? As Sy said, definition of boom or bust.

He's no youngster, it's not like he hasn't had the time to be molded. I personally think he just lacks the timing you need to be an NFL QB. He was at Michigan under Harbough, and he got benched, ultimately transferring to Tennessee. Also, I don't know how much stock you would put into this, but he was essentially passed over at Tennessee for the Bowl Game for a freshman.

In comment 16465879 gogiants said:

Quote:

for a later round QB.

Me too

and is already 24. I wouldn’t be against a late round flyer on him, but the 3rd is WAY too high for me.

I’m not a huge fan of Rattler, but at least he can play.

"as well as, run away from opponents like a Moose looking for a mate, at that time of the season."

WTF kind of metaphor is that.

To a guy that needs to sit for at least a year.

And when he doesn’t pan out, he’ll be added to the long list of bad draft choices by the Giants, and Eric you’ll be saying things like “good teams don’t waste draft resource on projects and then fire their head coach.”

Should be considered backup material with a possibility of being a starter (the lower the round, the lower the possibility). 3rd round isn't a waste if you can get a low cost backup.

IF Milton 'busts', is he still viable at backup, or do you save the pick for someone with a higher floor, but lower ceiling?

Again, assume the top 4 guys are out of reach.

Again, assume Penix and Nix are caught in the no-man's land between the 1st and 2nd round picks (too far and expensive again for the Giants to trade up from 2 back into the 1st round and question if they are even worth it... do you want to give up next year's #1 for Nix for example?)

So that leaves you with doing nothing or taking a shot with a later pick. An argument can be made for both. Giants don't really have the luxury to throw away any of their picks right now, but at the same time, taking a QB later sometimes can pay off.

The only reason I mentioned Milton is the toolset to work with.

My biggest question is one that echoes something that Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan had said about him, with all of his experience why hasn't he been able to put it together yet? He is like the pitcher who throws 100+ MPH but can't locate it and it is as straight as an arrow. Even if Sy does not think they have as high of an upside, would someone like Michael Pratt or Spencer Rattler be more likely to hit whatever ceiling they do have?

In comment 16466046 Del Shofner said:

Quote:

"as well as, run away from opponents like a Moose looking for a mate, at that time of the season." WTF kind of metaphor is that.

A reaching one. Like when a child reaches for the toy they can’t get to on a high countertop.

In comment 16466095 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Again, assume the top 4 guys are out of reach. Again, assume Penix and Nix are caught in the no-man's land between the 1st and 2nd round picks (too far and expensive again for the Giants to trade up from 2 back into the 1st round and question if they are even worth it... do you want to give up next year's #1 for Nix for example?) So that leaves you with doing nothing or taking a shot with a later pick. An argument can be made for both. Giants don't really have the luxury to throw away any of their picks right now, but at the same time, taking a QB later sometimes can pay off. The only reason I mentioned Milton is the toolset to work with.

Rather take a chance on Pratt than Milton.

In comment 16466108 Mike in NY said:

Quote:

My biggest question is one that echoes something that Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan had said about him, with all of his experience why hasn't he been able to put it together yet? He is like the pitcher who throws 100+ MPH but can't locate it and it is as straight as an arrow. Even if Sy does not think they have as high of an upside, would someone like Michael Pratt or Spencer Rattler be more likely to hit whatever ceiling they do have?

Spencer Rattler is all floor, no ceiling. Head case who thinks he’s better than he really is.

The chance for success is low and their limited draft capital with multiple needs makes it painful, but I think the situation necessitates it. The question I have with Milton is the processing and football IQ techniques. Is that something that can be coached? Is it possible to design an offense around his strengths that gets around this flaw and would NYG be willing to do so? (Something like Baltimore adjusting to maximize Lamar’s athleticism.). Because the margin for error is so small, they would have to work hard not only to scout but also to work the draft to ensure they get their #1 candidate among this (third?) tier of QBs.

In comment 16466046 Del Shofner said:

Quote:

"as well as, run away from opponents like a Moose looking for a mate, at that time of the season." WTF kind of metaphor is that.

An entertaining one, although I'll admit, I found your reaction to be even more entertaining. ;>)

but we are going to have to take someone and if it’s him so be it. Atleast he has the arm, Daboll will need to get to work on the rest.

If their preferred QB is gone by pick 3, they will look at a later round QB that either Kafka or Tierney coached in the college all-star games -- narrows it down a bit. Historically, they have looked at the MVP of the Senior Bowl as a selection, with dubious results.

In comment 16466095 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Again, assume the top 4 guys are out of reach. Again, assume Penix and Nix are caught in the no-man's land between the 1st and 2nd round picks (too far and expensive again for the Giants to trade up from 2 back into the 1st round and question if they are even worth it... do you want to give up next year's #1 for Nix for example?) So that leaves you with doing nothing or taking a shot with a later pick. An argument can be made for both. Giants don't really have the luxury to throw away any of their picks right now, but at the same time, taking a QB later sometimes can pay off. The only reason I mentioned Milton is the toolset to work with.

Pick 47 and 2025 2nd could get us into rd1 with the right trade partner. Look at the Vikings trade for pick 23. If Penix slid into the 25-32 range we could get him for a reasonable price.

In comment 16466503 BleedBlue46 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466095 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Again, assume the top 4 guys are out of reach. Again, assume Penix and Nix are caught in the no-man's land between the 1st and 2nd round picks (too far and expensive again for the Giants to trade up from 2 back into the 1st round and question if they are even worth it... do you want to give up next year's #1 for Nix for example?) So that leaves you with doing nothing or taking a shot with a later pick. An argument can be made for both. Giants don't really have the luxury to throw away any of their picks right now, but at the same time, taking a QB later sometimes can pay off. The only reason I mentioned Milton is the toolset to work with. Pick 47 and 2025 2nd could get us into rd1 with the right trade partner. Look at the Vikings trade for pick 23. If Penix slid into the 25-32 range we could get him for a reasonable price.

Assuming they want to draft a next tier QB this year at all.

In comment 16466108 Mike in NY said:

Quote:

My biggest question is one that echoes something that Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan had said about him, with all of his experience why hasn't he been able to put it together yet? He is like the pitcher who throws 100+ MPH but can't locate it and it is as straight as an arrow. Even if Sy does not think they have as high of an upside, would someone like Michael Pratt or Spencer Rattler be more likely to hit whatever ceiling they do have?

Milton needs the right situation with a team to be successful. He really didn't get that chance at Tennesse

In comment 16466711 Rich_Houston_1971 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466108 Mike in NY said: Quote: My biggest question is one that echoes something that Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan had said about him, with all of his experience why hasn't he been able to put it together yet? He is like the pitcher who throws 100+ MPH but can't locate it and it is as straight as an arrow. Even if Sy does not think they have as high of an upside, would someone like Michael Pratt or Spencer Rattler be more likely to hit whatever ceiling they do have? Milton needs the right situation with a team to be successful. He really didn't get that chance at Tennesse

But he also did not have that at Michigan as well? At what point is it the person and not the situation around him?

mentally. Just accept it and move on.

In comment 16465968 MojoEd said:

Quote:

In comment 16465879 gogiants said: Quote: for a later round QB. Boylhart would agree with you that Travis is a talent. Refers to him as a Mahommes/Doug Flutie clone, high football IQ and 1st round talent. Dang! Sign me up for Travis over Milton for big swing! Boylhart -Jordan Travis Sleeper QB - ( New Window )

That's quite a write-up.

re: ability to read defenses, processing?