Apparently this is a sensibility offending position, as I've been called a moron for saying I think he can win a championship here.
But I do think he is. Two things I've been really impressed with.
1) He's squeezed every ounce out of three really flawed quarterbacks. If the Giants bring in a talented rookie I think the sky is the limit.
2) I was a little nervous with how the Wink thing was developing, but I ended up really impressed it appears he wasn't worried about Wink going to a division opponent. I liked how he handled that ultimately. By all accounts he confronted the staff, then fired the rats, and then didn't cower to Wink.
What do y'all think?
Was not impressed how unprepared the team was to play.
Season was over by the time the team turned the corner.
He should be embarrassed by the OL he put out....we can blame the OL coach....buts it's on hime....under his watch.
Hard to say this team underachieved roster wise over his first 2 years. We really need to get to the point where the Giants don't have one of the worst rosters in the NFL.
If Daboll has a strong offensive mind, and excels at player development, who do you think is more likely to be at fault for the line they put out -- the GM or head coach?
I really think we are lucky to have him. Whhat bothers me are the people that complain about the “meaningless wins”. If he went 2-15 or 3-14, he may have been out of a job. Coach is very important. We just need to get him the ball players, particularly the right quarterback.
the fact that he kept the lockerroom together in a terrible year is a good sign.
we saw 3 other coaches since coughlin fail similar tests which is why they only lasted 2 years.
a lot is riding on him having corrected his 2 biggest mistakes and gotten this OL coach and DC right though.
He actually DOES value player improvement, understands that players are not ready made, and developing them, putting them in positions to be successful is paramount in order to win.
He doesn't "accept" losing, and that creates the right environment around his players.
Last year's OL atrocity is more on Schoen. He ALSO learned from that, as indicated by the change of plan for this year.
Mara wants stability.
If he can hold his water, these two will eventually be successful.
I 100% agree. Given we don't know how much influence Daboll has on roster decisions, what we do know is they are making some bad decisions.
That said, the lack of preparation for last season and the head scratching roster management definitely soured me on him last year. I can only hope he learned some hard lessons from last year that make him better.
Also, the temperament... it seems like Wink was more in the wrong but who knows? The whispers of tension between he and Kafka, coupled with the Colt McCoy nonsense from the past...
It does all make me wonder. I hope he has done some self scouting and correction on that stuff because I do think he is a good coach. He needs to be better.
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High bar, but I’m more impressed with Dabs than I am Joe thus far.
I 100% agree. Given we don't know how much influence Daboll has on roster decisions, what we do know is they are making some bad decisions.
a high % of the bad personnel decisions have been OL (glowinski, neal, ezeudu in theory should be + starters right now and if they were we'd have probably saved most of the $17m spent on runyan and eluemenor).
if wink was the elite DC he was paid to be, the defense wouldnt have regressed and he'd still be in the nfl.
those 2 hires are probably going to determine if he sinks or swims more than whoever plays QB this year because as we have seen, he has proven he can get competitive play out of a QB more than he has OL or DEF.
Biggest negatives - never seen a team less ready to play than opening game 2023. The DJ signing is mostly on him. He had to make the decision as to whether DJ could take the next step and it appears he was wrong.
The Wink situation is noise. Wink is out of the NFL and was probably a head case, seeing the Ravens let him walk too.
Last year's OL atrocity is more on Schoen.
I disagree with that. Davoli brought in Bobby Johnson. He also under-prepared a new group of OL in the pre-season. And terrible roster management with the worst of it letting Tyre Phillips go in favor of Peart as the swing, and then starting Ezeudu at RT in place of Andrew Thomas. It doomed the season.
and maybe he should eat a salad once in a while. i don't like a HC that looks like he might die on the sideline. if he can't manage his own well being why should i trust him to manage a complex enterprise?
I don't agree. Although I believe the defense and offensive line will play big parts, the quarterback play will ultimately determine whether the Giants have a sub-17 PPG offensive.
Make no mistake, the 2023 NYG put some historically ugly play out there for all the world to see. Perennial loser franchise level ugly, and it must be stripped away. It all starts and ends with Davoli. First, let's see 2024 resemble 2022.
What we do know, there is a big coaching storage in the NFL. Daboll salvaged last year a bit going 4-5 after the 2-8 start with Taylor & DeVito. But, the start of the year was very bad. Losing 40-0 on national TV against Dallas at home. Brutal. Took all the air out of the season.
All said, I think Daboll is a good coach.
It wasn't just the OL - the whole offense stunk sans maybe 3-4 games of "average". Thats on Daboll, not Schoen.
2) On passing downs, there needs to be a pocket that the qb can step into.
I think that ship sailed about ten years ago.
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those 2 hires are probably going to determine if he sinks or swims more than whoever plays QB this year because as we have seen, he has proven he can get competitive play out of a QB more than he has OL or DEF.
I don't agree. Although I believe the defense and offensive line will play big parts, the quarterback play will ultimately determine whether the Giants have a sub-17 PPG offensive.
if my math is right with tommy devito and tyrod taylor they scored 20 ppg from jones' acl injury week 9 on. with daniel jones healthy in 2022 they scored 21 ppg.
he has proven he can get the team to a reasonable ppg total with an assortment of qbs more than he has proven he can find a competent OL coach or competent OL players (hasnt) or field a better than below average defense (hasn't).
in sean mcdermott year 3/josh allen year 2 buffalo won 10 games scoring 19 ppg. allen completed 59% with 20 tds, 9 ints. the ghost of frank gore and devin singletary each started 8 games at rb. pre-diggs, john brown led them in receiving.
Reeves... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year"
Fassel... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year."
Coughlin... went 11-5 in second season but many were writing his obituary after his third season.
McAdoo... went 11-5 and made playoffs in first year
Daboll... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year."
Then there is Parcells... team almost fired him after his first season.
Again, who knows how much of that is on him. He might not be a great talent evaluator.
He needs to be careful reaching on a QB, and he's light on draft picks in 2024 due to a mixed bag of trades with too much emphasis on trying to win now, imv.
Reeves... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year"
Fassel... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year."
Coughlin... went 11-5 in second season but many were writing his obituary after his third season.
McAdoo... went 11-5 and made playoffs in first year
Daboll... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year."
Then there is Parcells... team almost fired him after his first season.
i dont remember all the ins/outs of scheduling in the 90's, but bad teams who start years with low expectations and easy schedules are 2 checked boxes on a high % of the COY winners.
even coughlins first year looked like it might exceed expectations at 5-2 until warner went into the fetal position from that bears game on (they had 14-0 lead in that one too, so easily could have moved to 6-2).
if my math is right with tommy devito and tyrod taylor they scored 20 ppg from jones' acl injury week 9 on. with daniel jones healthy in 2022 they scored 21 ppg.
In 2022 with a healthy Jones and Barkley they scored 21 points per game. In 2023 all things considered, they scored sub-17.
I am comfortable predicting the Giants are closer to 17 than 21 if the composite quarterback play is 17 games of a recovering Jones + Lock + DeVito this year.
I think the volume of picks required is the key. Because I think in the equation Daboll + (Maye, JJM, Nix, Penix) = good quarterback play.
Now if that takes 6 overall ++ to achieve, that's dangerous.
Some of that gets thrown back in doubt by the way the first half of last season started. In my mind, that was a perfect storm of poor preparation, untimely key injuries, and dealing with poor roster moves by the GM.
But Daboll did steady the ship and he squeezed out wins with nothing at stake with one of the worst set of QBs in the league.
In my conclusion, there are more positive signs than negatives with Daboll that indicate he might have the goods to compete for big prizes with a better roster, especially QB.
Was Doug Pederson?
Gary Kubiak?
Was Doug Pederson?
Gary Kubiak?.
Run along little fella. The grown ups are talking.
Some of that gets thrown back in doubt by the way the first half of last season started. In my mind, that was a perfect storm of poor preparation, untimely key injuries, and dealing with poor roster moves by the GM.
But Daboll did steady the ship and he squeezed out wins with nothing at stake with one of the worst set of QBs in the league.
In my conclusion, there are more positive signs than negatives with Daboll that indicate he might have the goods to compete for big prizes with a better roster, especially QB.
Agree. He shows a lot of potential. But lack of preparation heading into 2023 was mystifying as was the apparent failure to properly evaluate Jones after '22, which led to the terrible contract.
As an OC, his offenses didn't get off to historically bad starts.
They came out firing in 2022. So why last year?? There's got to be something that we are all missing that contributed to it.
Now, once AT got hurt, and the Cowboy game spiraled away from them, it was all downhill from there.
The fact that he eventually steadied the ship and they were basically competitive the last half of the season, made some points with me.
We will all have a better read on him, after this season.
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I don't agree. Although I believe the defense and offensive line will play big parts, the quarterback play will ultimately determine whether the Giants have a sub-17 PPG offensive.
if my math is right with tommy devito and tyrod taylor they scored 20 ppg from jones' acl injury week 9 on. with daniel jones healthy in 2022 they scored 21 ppg.
In 2022 with a healthy Jones and Barkley they scored 21 points per game. In 2023 all things considered, they scored sub-17.
I am comfortable predicting the Giants are closer to 17 than 21 if the composite quarterback play is 17 games of a recovering Jones + Lock + DeVito this year.
this isnt complicated, if "all things considered" what was most different from 2022 to 2023? hint: it was historically different.
honestlty i think there is some ny bias in there. if you put doug pederson in ny in 2022 and dabs in jax but gave them their same teams, i bet pederson wins. pederson went 9-8 with a team that had the 1st overall pick. beat herbert in playoffs.
This is not the make or break year for Schabs but they have to solve the QB problem or they’ll both soon be history.
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Was Bruce Arians?
Was Doug Pederson?
Gary Kubiak?.
Run along little fella. The grown ups are talking.
Go fuck yourself asshat
This is not the make or break year for Schabs but they have to solve the QB problem or they’ll both soon be history.
Geezus with the focus on one G*d*mn position on the team. If the team - THE WHOLE TEAM - comes out as unprepared as last season and the OL and WHOLE OFFENSE doesn't improve that is what will kill this regime.