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QB Daniel Jones on First Downs in 2023

Anakim : 4/12/2024 11:21 am
"Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
this is wild

the easiest time to pass the ball is on 1st down

Daniel Jones ranked #48 of 48 QBs on 1st down efficiency (min 100 att in 2023)

just 30% of att were successful

NFL avg is 46%

a lot of it was sacks... ok...

BUT EVEN IF YOU REMOVE SACKS

he ranked #47 of 48 QBs

gross

even removing sacks, he was pressured a a high rate... ok...

BUT EVEN IF YOU REMOVE ATTEMPTS UNDER PRESSURE

he ranked #47 of 48 QBs

only Bailey Zappe was worse"
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RE: …  
BigBlueShock : 4/13/2024 9:21 am : link
In comment 16467266 christian said:
Quote:
The owner, the GM, and coach all seem open to Jones returning and competing for the starting job.

I personally look forward to Jones playing behind a competent line and talented pass catchers.

It's become an Autumn tradition over here at Casa Gonzales to watch the All 22 breakdowns of Jones missing guys open downfield. It almost approximates the joy of winning.

Look forward to the snap of the ball, seeing the RB flaring out into the flats and knowing instantly where the ball is going while Jones fakes like he’s actually looking downfield to draw the defenders away from his actual target
RE: RE: …  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/13/2024 9:22 am : link
In comment 16467273 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 16467266 christian said:


Quote:


The owner, the GM, and coach all seem open to Jones returning and competing for the starting job.

I personally look forward to Jones playing behind a competent line and talented pass catchers.

It's become an Autumn tradition over here at Casa Gonzales to watch the All 22 breakdowns of Jones missing guys open downfield. It almost approximates the joy of winning.


Look forward to the snap of the ball, seeing the RB flaring out into the flats and knowing instantly where the ball is going while Jones fakes like he’s actually looking downfield to draw the defenders away from his actual target

Is there a separate broadcast that shows Jones even pretending to look downfield? My TV never seems to show that angle.
Daniel Jones had 1 season....  
Fishmanjim57 : 4/13/2024 9:24 am : link
That he was just above par, the other 4 season he was absolutely useless. He is a lousy QB, but is being paid as an elite QB because single season he played slightly above average was the first season that Daboll was his coach.
Daniel Jones proved that he was fool's gold last season.
It's past time to move on.
RE: RE: RE: …  
BigBlueShock : 4/13/2024 9:26 am : link
In comment 16467277 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16467273 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 16467266 christian said:


Quote:


The owner, the GM, and coach all seem open to Jones returning and competing for the starting job.

I personally look forward to Jones playing behind a competent line and talented pass catchers.

It's become an Autumn tradition over here at Casa Gonzales to watch the All 22 breakdowns of Jones missing guys open downfield. It almost approximates the joy of winning.


Look forward to the snap of the ball, seeing the RB flaring out into the flats and knowing instantly where the ball is going while Jones fakes like he’s actually looking downfield to draw the defenders away from his actual target


Is there a separate broadcast that shows Jones even pretending to look downfield? My TV never seems to show that angle.

It’s very brief. Like a split second so you really have to zoom in before he inevitably tosses the ball 15 feet over the covered RB in the flat
RE: …  
Mike from Ohio : 4/13/2024 9:29 am : link
In comment 16467266 christian said:
Quote:
The owner, the GM, and coach all seem open to Jones returning and competing for the starting job.

I personally look forward to Jones playing behind a competent line and talented pass catchers.

It's become an Autumn tradition over here at Casa Gonzales to watch the All 22 breakdowns of Jones missing guys open downfield. It almost approximates the joy of winning.


It would not be Giant football without the constant replays showing the pre-snap reads Jones misses, the guys running open almost immediately from the snap while Jones stares a hole in the RB as he runs out into the flat with a safety timing his run at the RB to decapitate him.

It is what we get to look forward to instead of competitive games.
...  
christian : 4/13/2024 9:57 am : link
I can see it now. The Giants draft Nabers and Gary Brightwell leads the team in targets.

Maybe at halftime Slayton, Robinson, Hyatt, and Nabers can run exhibition 4x100s. It's about the only thing that speed will be good for.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/13/2024 10:02 am : link
Sometimes I sit back in wonder that there's a distinct possibility that we're going into year six of the Daniel Jones experience & there's still people-up to the owner himself apparently-who still think there's a chance Jones can lead us to the promised land.

What a world. What a time to be alive.
RE: ...  
Mike from Ohio : 4/13/2024 10:02 am : link
In comment 16467318 christian said:
Quote:
I can see it now. The Giants draft Nabers and Gary Brightwell leads the team in targets.

Maybe at halftime Slayton, Robinson, Hyatt, and Nabers can run exhibition 4x100s. It's about the only thing that speed will be good for.


Now imagine how much better it gets when teams know Jones will be hesitant to run, the only thing he does well?
RE: RE: ...  
LW_Giants : 4/13/2024 10:03 am : link
In comment 16467322 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 16467318 christian said:


Quote:


I can see it now. The Giants draft Nabers and Gary Brightwell leads the team in targets.

Maybe at halftime Slayton, Robinson, Hyatt, and Nabers can run exhibition 4x100s. It's about the only thing that speed will be good for.



Now imagine how much better it gets when teams know Jones will be hesitant to run, the only thing he does well?


And then add this to the picture, 8 games into an already lost season where Jones is playing awful, he injures himself yet again and kicks in his enormous injury guarantee for next year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Some people need to go look at Phil Simms  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 10:07 am : link
In comment 16467258 Giantsbigblue said:
Quote:


They barely played?



And why would they have barely played?


Do you think that if Toney and James played the same amount of snaps as the top WRs on the chiefs they would have had better numbers with Mahomes or Jones?
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/13/2024 10:08 am : link
I still can't believe Joe somehow-given Jones' extensive injury history even prior to last year-gave that injury guarantee. The Jones signing might go down as one of the worst-if not THE-in Giants history.

& of course a smart organization-figuring that injury clause & Jones' injury history-wouldn't even let him see the field this fall, but if he's ready to go Week 1, he'll presumably be the starter. I don't want to say the Giants are run by idiots, but there's a lot of evidence indicating that they are, from ownership on down.
they  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/13/2024 10:13 am : link
ripped one of the band-aids off with Saquon. Time to remove the other one.

Franchise needs to move on.
Cut Jones as soon as he can pass a physical  
Sean : 4/13/2024 10:14 am : link
Start Lock if QB isn't drafted. As Eric said, it's time to move on.
RE: Cut Jones as soon as he can pass a physical  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 10:15 am : link
In comment 16467337 Sean said:
Quote:
Start Lock if QB isn't drafted. As Eric said, it's time to move on.


Yup
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/13/2024 10:17 am : link
Cutting Jones the second after he can pass a physical would be the bold & right move IMO.

Of course it'll never happen.
 
christian : 4/13/2024 10:19 am : link
1) All jokes aside, if the plan is to play Jones and he has diminished wheels, watching him as a pocket passer will be wild.

2) I'll spare everyone another thread, but the prospects of him ever playing another down are 100% predicated on him being ready by camp and the Giants not drafting a QB, anything else would be ridiculous.
The most annoying part is they let Saqoun walk this year  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 10:19 am : link
And they could have done the same thing last year and tagged Jones, and he’d be off the team.
How could they cut Jones?  
LW_Giants : 4/13/2024 10:19 am : link
He's such a nice man, and it's not his fault that everyone around him has failed him. He just needs more time, more weapons, better coaching, etc. Plus, they owe him for all he's done for the organization!

(/sarcasm/)
RE: The most annoying part is they let Saqoun walk this year  
Sean : 4/13/2024 10:21 am : link
In comment 16467345 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
And they could have done the same thing last year and tagged Jones, and he’d be off the team.

Agreed. I just can't see Schoen going into the year with a banged up Jones, Lock & DeVito. It makes no sense and I think Schoen knows it. We'll see what happens, but I think NYG finds a way to secure one of the top 6 QBs.
christian.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/13/2024 10:21 am : link
I look forward to a lock of check downs & a lot of him staring @ his first read.

2024 NEW YORK GIANTS FOOTBALL BABY! FEEL THE EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!
RE: they  
christian : 4/13/2024 10:22 am : link
In comment 16467334 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
ripped one of the band-aids off with Saquon. Time to remove the other one.

Franchise needs to move on.


Exactly. Can you imagine if Jones misses the first couple of games, and then they either bench Lock or the rookie and go to Jones?

The fans would burn the tin can down.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Some people need to go look at Phil Simms  
Giantsbigblue : 4/13/2024 10:48 am : link
In comment 16467328 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16467258 Giantsbigblue said:


Quote:




They barely played?



And why would they have barely played?



Do you think that if Toney and James played the same amount of snaps as the top WRs on the chiefs they would have had better numbers with Mahomes or Jones?


Do you really want to go down this road? It's OK for you to think Jones stinks. The fact that you can't understand that these players around him are no good says a lot about your ability to be reasonable. They didn't get snaps because they are not good players. KC did not have great players in front od them forcing them to sit.
...  
christian : 4/13/2024 10:54 am : link
Toney had an interpersonal meltdown and James was injured and missed 2 months with a sprained MCL.

Both of those players had fewer targets in 2023 because of factors outside of their talent.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Some people need to go look at Phil Simms  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 11:01 am : link
In comment 16467378 Giantsbigblue said:
Quote:

Do you really want to go down this road? It's OK for you to think Jones stinks. The fact that you can't understand that these players around him are no good says a lot about your ability to be reasonable. They didn't get snaps because they are not good players. KC did not have great players in front od them forcing them to sit.


Let’s go down that road. Answer the question.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Some people need to go look at Phil Simms  
Giantsbigblue : 4/13/2024 11:29 am : link
In comment 16467402 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16467378 Giantsbigblue said:


Quote:



Do you really want to go down this road? It's OK for you to think Jones stinks. The fact that you can't understand that these players around him are no good says a lot about your ability to be reasonable. They didn't get snaps because they are not good players. KC did not have great players in front od them forcing them to sit.



Let’s go down that road. Answer the question.


Mahomes is a way better QB than Jones and Andy Reid is a way better offensive mind than Daboll. They are simply inconsistent players at best and their playing time reflected that. Slayton is inconsistent as well and is not going to go shine somewhere else.
If Slayton was Mahomes’  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 11:40 am : link
Number 1 receiver he’d still only be a 700 yard receiver?
RE: RE: The most annoying part is they let Saqoun walk this year  
Darwinian : 4/13/2024 11:51 am : link
In comment 16467349 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16467345 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


And they could have done the same thing last year and tagged Jones, and he’d be off the team.


Agreed. I just can't see Schoen going into the year with a banged up Jones, Lock & DeVito. It makes no sense and I think Schoen knows it. We'll see what happens, but I think NYG finds a way to secure one of the top 6 QBs.


I'm with you. I think Schoen finds a way to get one of the top 6 QBs when all is said and done. Perhaps not with pick #6, but somewhere.
RE: ...  
Walker Gillette : 4/13/2024 11:56 am : link
In comment 16467389 christian said:
Quote:
Toney had an interpersonal meltdown and James was injured and missed 2 months with a sprained MCL.

Both of those players had fewer targets in 2023 because of factors outside of their talent.


The meltdown was far from out of Tony's control, he is a head case who is worthless anywhere, however when he and James were able to be on the field they didn't get many targets because they're not very good.
It says a lot that the last three weapons the Giants have  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 12:25 pm : link
Added - Golliday, Waller and Hyatt have caught their touchdowns from a QB not named Daniel Jones
RE: It says a lot that the last three weapons the Giants have  
Giantsbigblue : 4/13/2024 12:29 pm : link
In comment 16467485 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Added - Golliday, Waller and Hyatt have caught their touchdowns from a QB not named Daniel Jones


We are bringing Golliday into this now? Come on man!
Care to acknowledge the actual point?  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 12:49 pm : link
.
RE: RE: It says a lot that the last three weapons the Giants have  
Darwinian : 4/13/2024 1:05 pm : link
In comment 16467487 Giantsbigblue said:
Quote:
In comment 16467485 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Added - Golliday, Waller and Hyatt have caught their touchdowns from a QB not named Daniel Jones



We are bringing Golliday into this now? Come on man!


Why not Golladay. He was a pro bowl wr who Jones couldn't form a connection with. Remember Golladay yelling on the sideline in the Washington game? What was he yelling about?
RE: Care to acknowledge the actual point?  
Giantsbigblue : 4/13/2024 1:17 pm : link
In comment 16467510 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
.


Remember that time you said Calvin Johnson didn't play with Orlovsky and when proven wrong you deflected?

Anyhow he is a 3rd WR on most teams and wouldn't get much targets in Kansas. You either don't watch the games and just read stats or you must forget all the balls Golliday and Slayton have dropped. It doesn't matter who the QB is when the ball hits you in the hands and you drop the ball.
RE: RE: RE: It says a lot that the last three weapons the Giants have  
Giantsbigblue : 4/13/2024 1:17 pm : link
In comment 16467522 Darwinian said:
Quote:
In comment 16467487 Giantsbigblue said:


Quote:


In comment 16467485 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Added - Golliday, Waller and Hyatt have caught their touchdowns from a QB not named Daniel Jones



We are bringing Golliday into this now? Come on man!



Why not Golladay. He was a pro bowl wr who Jones couldn't form a connection with. Remember Golladay yelling on the sideline in the Washington game? What was he yelling about?


He came here with a fork in his back and has not been signed since. This is getting comical.
RE: RE: Care to acknowledge the actual point?  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 1:25 pm : link
In comment 16467536 Giantsbigblue said:
Quote:
In comment 16467510 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


.



Remember that time you said Calvin Johnson didn't play with Orlovsky and when proven wrong you deflected?

Anyhow he is a 3rd WR on most teams and wouldn't get much targets in Kansas. You either don't watch the games and just read stats or you must forget all the balls Golliday and Slayton have dropped. It doesn't matter who the QB is when the ball hits you in the hands and you drop the ball.


Dan Orlovsky played 7 games with Calvin Johnson, that was supposed to change Orlovsky’s career? By your logic shouldn’t they have seen what Orlovsky could do with a full season of Calvin Johnson? By the way, that year Orlovsky was on pace for more TDs than Jones threw in 2022z

Anyhow, not sure how not remembering 7 games of Orlovksys career is even relevant to the discussion. I’ll try asking the question again to see if you stop deflecting:

Would Slayton still be a 700 yard receiver if he was the #1 WR on the Chiefs?
I also love how we’re going to point out Slaytons dropped balls  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 1:26 pm : link
What about Jones’ turnovers? Missed throws? I think it’s twice in the past two seasons he’s ran out of bounds for a loss of yards. He’s got the football IQ of a toaster.
RE: RE: RE: Care to acknowledge the actual point?  
Giantsbigblue : 4/13/2024 1:28 pm : link
In comment 16467545 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16467536 Giantsbigblue said:


Quote:


In comment 16467510 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


.



Remember that time you said Calvin Johnson didn't play with Orlovsky and when proven wrong you deflected?

Anyhow he is a 3rd WR on most teams and wouldn't get much targets in Kansas. You either don't watch the games and just read stats or you must forget all the balls Golliday and Slayton have dropped. It doesn't matter who the QB is when the ball hits you in the hands and you drop the ball.



Dan Orlovsky played 7 games with Calvin Johnson, that was supposed to change Orlovsky’s career? By your logic shouldn’t they have seen what Orlovsky could do with a full season of Calvin Johnson? By the way, that year Orlovsky was on pace for more TDs than Jones threw in 2022z

Anyhow, not sure how not remembering 7 games of Orlovksys career is even relevant to the discussion. I’ll try asking the question again to see if you stop deflecting:

Would Slayton still be a 700 yard receiver if he was the #1 WR on the Chiefs?


It's because you are not worth it because you can never admit to being wrong. I regret even responding to you.
lol I’ve admitted to being wrong plenty of times  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 1:30 pm : link
You can’t bring up a past discussion and accuse someone of deflecting over a 7 game stretch of Orlovsky’s career, while deflecting yourself non stop in the thread.

Be a man, answer the question. Don’t run away.
...  
christian : 4/13/2024 1:32 pm : link
If we're to believe the Giants, Jones will get another shot to prove everyone wrong (yet again). Eventually, the epic bad luck of Daniel Jones has to change and he'll be in the circumstances he so richly deserves.
RE: lol I’ve admitted to being wrong plenty of times  
Giantsbigblue : 4/13/2024 1:37 pm : link
In comment 16467553 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
You can’t bring up a past discussion and accuse someone of deflecting over a 7 game stretch of Orlovsky’s career, while deflecting yourself non stop in the thread.

Be a man, answer the question. Don’t run away.


Never seen it.

I already answered it numerous times. He is who he is and wouldn't be a number 1 there. Mahomes doesn't magically turn these guys into stars. We all saw it this past season.

Using Golladay in this was an absolute joke as well.
Slayton  
Giantsbigblue : 4/13/2024 1:42 pm : link
Was free to sign anywhere last off season. If Kansas City wanted him they could have had him. No one was offering him big money for the untapped potential he has but is being held back by Jones.
How come Golladay, Hyatt and Waller haven’t caught a TD from  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 1:45 pm : link
Jones? But once another QB comes in they catch a touchdown? You can even leave Golladay out if you’d like.

If Slayton had Mahomes has his QB instead of a toaster would he produce more than the 770 yards he did with Jones?

You can shit on Slayton all you’d like but he’s 10 times the football player Daniel Jones is.
RE: Slayton  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 1:45 pm : link
In comment 16467567 Giantsbigblue said:
Quote:
Was free to sign anywhere last off season. If Kansas City wanted him they could have had him. No one was offering him big money for the untapped potential he has but is being held back by Jones.


Thought you don’t like deflection?
Hyatt actually didn't catch a TD from anybody  
shyster : 4/13/2024 2:09 pm : link
He's still at zero.

Waller caught one (1) in 600 or so offensive snaps in 2023.

I'm no Jones fan but this angle doesn't add anything. Jones threw 2 TDs (and 6 INTs) in 5 plus games last season; criticizing that is enough.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It says a lot that the last three weapons the Giants have  
Darwinian : 4/13/2024 2:34 pm : link
In comment 16467539 Giantsbigblue said:
Quote:
In comment 16467522 Darwinian said:


Quote:


In comment 16467487 Giantsbigblue said:


Quote:


In comment 16467485 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Added - Golliday, Waller and Hyatt have caught their touchdowns from a QB not named Daniel Jones



We are bringing Golliday into this now? Come on man!



Why not Golladay. He was a pro bowl wr who Jones couldn't form a connection with. Remember Golladay yelling on the sideline in the Washington game? What was he yelling about?



He came here with a fork in his back and has not been signed since. This is getting comical.


He was on the field with Jones plenty. Jones wouldn't throw to him because Jones can't throw a fade to save his life. Jones can't hit precise leverage points in contested catch sitiations. And Jones has terrible touch. Either you can't admit it. Or you haven't a clue what you're looking at.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It says a lot that the last three weapons the Giants have  
shyster : 4/13/2024 2:57 pm : link
In comment 16467635 Darwinian said:
Quote:



He was on the field with Jones plenty. Jones wouldn't throw to him


Again, an inaccurate and unnecessary angle of criticism.

Golladay got off to a very respectable start with Jones in the first four weeks of 2021: 26 targets, 17 receptions, 282 yards, on pace for well over 1000.

In the Week 4 win over the Saints in the Dome, Golladay had 6 catches for 116.

The following week he suffered a knee injury that put him out for four weeks. When he came back, he had three quiet games and then Jones suffered the neck injury that ended his season.

From the beginning of 2022 training camp, Golladay was a diminished player: another year older/slower and further down the hill. No QB could have made 2022 Kenny Golladay a success.

And he's been out of the league since.
You’re making his point for him  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 3:18 pm : link
Despite Golladay playing well those first four weeks Jones threw 4 tds and the Giants average 19 points. Jones, even with things going well around him, can’t score points
RE: You’re making his point for him  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/13/2024 3:26 pm : link
In comment 16467688 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Despite Golladay playing well those first four weeks Jones threw 4 tds and the Giants average 19 points. Jones, even with things going well around him, can’t score points


I was just curious & went back & looked @ Jones' 'spectacular' 2022 season...the offense cracked the 30 point barrier just twice-the first in a win vs. a checked out Colts team on New Year's & the second in that 'epic' WC win vs. that 'great' Vikes defense.
RE: You’re making his point for him  
shyster : 4/13/2024 3:33 pm : link
In comment 16467688 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Despite Golladay playing well those first four weeks Jones threw 4 tds and the Giants average 19 points. Jones, even with things going well around him, can’t score points


No, his point (or attempted point) was that Jones wouldn't throw to Golladay. And that's not true.

As I said, I'm no Jones fan. Factual inaccuracies are unnecessary to criticize him.
Wouldn’t throw him the ball in the end zone  
ajr2456 : 4/13/2024 3:40 pm : link
Because he can’t throw a fade. That is in fact true
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