QB Daniel Jones on First Downs in 2023

But how was he on first downs against the Vikings? Because that's the true measure of his ability and potential.

site has gone back and forth on Daniel Jones for years now. Those who like him will come up with something, those who don't like him will come up with something else.

But beyond this, THE PLAYERS know. We saw the first hints of that with Giants saying Saquon should have been paid before Daniel.

Now we have draft prospects bad-mouthing him in the media.

I saw a pundit yesterday just matter-of-factly state the obvious... "Daniel doesn't throw the ball down the field." What was the biggest difference between Taylor/DeVito and Jones? We all saw it. They took shots down the field. With the same cast of characters.

Then there is the whole injury thing, which may end this once and for all.

The problem? If the attitude that Schmeelk, Cross, and Dottino have permeates that building, holy shit.

In comment 16466261 santacruzom said:

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But how was he on first downs against the Vikings? Because that's the true measure of his ability and potential.

Only the 2022 Vikings.

Claiming a QB has to be top 8 in the NFL to draft at 6 (or whatever they were saying) is silly.

being 48 out of 48 is not going to work.

In comment 16466261 santacruzom said:

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But how was he on first downs against the Vikings? Because that's the true measure of his ability and potential.

I see what you did there, Mr. Mara.

He's just not good enough. Bizarre contract given looking back. I think Schoen will do whatever it takes to draft a QB.

If not, start Lock and draft a mid round QB. I still lean first round QB though.

In comment 16466273 ZogZerg said:

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Claiming a QB has to be top 8 in the NFL to draft at 6 (or whatever they were saying) is silly. being 48 out of 48 is not going to work.

To be fair, I do understand their point there and do agree with it to a certain extent. I'd rather draft the WR than draft a 15th-ranked QB.

What I have an issue with is anyone in that building who thinks Jones is an acceptable fallback option.

But he’s a nice polite kid who works hard.

The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing.

Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

If they draft him over the almost certain star receiver.

I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.)

It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career.

I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB.

We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast.

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said:

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I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast.

He's terrible. He makes the line worse by holding the ball too long and not seeing the field. He's a bust.

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

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The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

Thibodeaux implied this with saying Barkley should have been paid. Just imagine Barkley lighting it up for Philly while Jones is running prematurely and checking down. It will get UGLY.

It's why I think there is a real chance Lock is the starter here whether QB is drafted or not.

Rich Eisen at the combine: "The Giants are done with Daniel Jones."

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

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The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

If they don't draft a QB, watch and see what happens around here. The rhetoric will be back to Jones being a good player who was a victim of the circumstances around him.

I am not rooting for the guy to stay hurt, but they might need his knee or neck to take a year to heal. It may be the only way to save them from themselves.

The problem with keep bringing up 2022 was the offense was based around the run, including Jones.

They got a little bit of rhythm late in the year when they used Jones' feet on misdirection runs and play-action off of that. Some defenses kept falling for it. But when they didn't, so ended the productivity.

In other words, the Daboll and Kafka schemed the offense around Jones' liabilities.

It's what makes the contract they gave him even more confusing. Again, I think they overreacted to Saquon telling them no. I pray it was Mara being stupid again rather than the alternative, because the alternative is a huge knock against the regime.

I just find the whole Jones thing extremely odd. There’s a huge disconnect between what people inside of 1925 Giants Way think about him compared to what those outside that building view him, be it BBI, most of the media, players in the league, & the like.

One of the stranger things I’ve witnessed as a Giants fan. The dude is going into his sixth season. It isn’t like he was drafted in ‘22 or something. He’s been around for awhile.

And then there’s the Mara quotes from that RV article the other day about how John-more than anyone else in the building-believes in Jones. I will never understand his seeming devotion to this guy. It’s like Wellington pounding on the table in 97 for Dave Brown in an alternative universe.

since 2019.

And 0% on QB since selecting Jones in 2019.

It's time to help the OL with better QB play.

In comment 16466261 santacruzom said:

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But how was he on first downs against the Vikings? Because that's the true measure of his ability and potential.

LOL...

But at least he's the first guy in the building in the morning!!!

Who cares about passing for yards or touchdowns!

In comment 16466267 Eric from BBI said:

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site has gone back and forth on Daniel Jones for years now. Those who like him will come up with something, those who don't like him will come up with something else. But beyond this, THE PLAYERS know. We saw the first hints of that with Giants saying Saquon should have been paid before Daniel. Now we have draft prospects bad-mouthing him in the media. I saw a pundit yesterday just matter-of-factly state the obvious... "Daniel doesn't throw the ball down the field." What was the biggest difference between Taylor/DeVito and Jones? We all saw it. They took shots down the field. With the same cast of characters. Then there is the whole injury thing, which may end this once and for all. The problem? If the attitude that Schmeelk, Cross, and Dottino have permeates that building, holy shit.

Just to play along, who really "LIKES" Jones, here? Some are willing to live with him as a starter for another year especially if NYG tried but couldn't trade up or land the high QB. Not saying you, but this place has managed to turn some relatively luke warm takes on Jones into exaggerated fan boy extreme loyalty to Jones.

There's really only one extreme take here on Jones. Excluding 1-2 posters who almost seem to be trolling with weird Jones love, most of the rational takes seem to have accepted Jones and the QB situation for what it is. And then you have the same 10 or so people that twist shit.

I don't think there are more than 3 posters here that truly WANT or insist that Jones is the end all be all QB here. Not even sure you could list 2.

In comment 16466299 Eric from BBI said:

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The problem with keep bringing up 2022 was the offense was based around the run, including Jones. They got a little bit of rhythm late in the year when they used Jones' feet on misdirection runs and play-action off of that. Some defenses kept falling for it. But when they didn't, so ended the productivity. In other words, the Daboll and Kafka schemed the offense around Jones' liabilities. It's what makes the contract they gave him even more confusing. Again, I think they overreacted to Saquon telling them no. I pray it was Mara being stupid again rather than the alternative, because the alternative is a huge knock against the regime.

I am convinced that contract was on Mara and the "two year out" was Mara's way of placating Schoen and Daboll with "well if it doesn't work after 2 years we do it your way". Schoen and Daboll aren't that stupid to give that contract to Jones by themselves.

Mara: "We'll try it my way first to see if you can fix Daniel because we've done everything we can to screw him up..." Mara still chasing ghosts. It's sad.

Because its been obvious for years

Jones has twice had the lowest TD to Pass Attempts ratio in NFL history for those over 100 attempts with just 2 TDs in 2023 and 2020 through the first 6 games.

Its mind boggling that this is even a debate and its been this way since the end of 2020 when it should have been apparent to all

I don’t disagree with your post.

But what’s troubling is that Mara is seemingly in love with Jones. I just hope the reports of him letting Joe and Dabs run the show are true.

I wrote about this when it happened last year, the minute Taylor and DeVito did what they did, the bottom dropped out.

You couldn't have written a worse script for Jones... the blocked field goal with Thomas getting hurt, the OL injuries piling up, Waller getting hurt right before the season started, the neck, the ACL, etc.

But the cherry on top was the play of Taylor and DeVito.

its not that hard for the defense to figure it out.

or they were doing what the trio wanted when Schoen and Daboll gave Jones his 2nd contract doesn't matter anymore.

The GM and HC know that Daniel Jones is not the guy and by far the biggest problem they have to deal with in order to keep their jobs in 2025. They have shown us and told us. I think the trio won't allow it to be easy for them to make a QB change if Jones passes a physical. I think if they don't find a new QB quickly and bench then released him Schoen will be the 2nd GM and Daboll the 3rd HC that Jones gets fired.

January 8, 2024

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"Ultimately we have to do something," Schoen told reporters. "Whether it's the draft or a free agent, just because Tyrod's contract is up. We have Tommy, who's under contract, and then Daniel's injury -- the return to play and the uncertainty there. "When free agency starts, the draft. Whichever avenue we decide to take, we will address the position."

A picture in this case is worth 82 million words

before Taylor started his second game (and obviously before the ACL later on):

"Is Jones a dud or a tragic figure? Valid arguments can be made for either point of view. However, after this week, there will only be 10 games left in the NYG season. Unless Jones returns soon and then lights it up in the last 10 games, can this franchise operate under the assumption that they have a quarterback? I don’t think so. And I’m pretty darn sure Jones isn’t going to go on a 10-game run where he erases all doubt. What I’m suggesting is that this may be Jones’ final season with the team. Ownership and management gambled and lost with Jones. They’ll have to eat what’s left of the contract and move on. If they don’t, they are simply prolonging the inevitable. Jones isn’t performing. And he’s damaged goods, a running quarterback with a bad neck. Tyrod Taylor is one good performance away from sealing Jones’ fate. If Taylor fails, it reinforces the impression that the team has no quarterback."

For crying out loud. How could you forget that happened?

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

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The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

The reaction I got from a couple people in the league when he signed the contract was literal laughter.

Only Mara and the Giants didn’t see it.

In comment 16466352 ajr2456 said:

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For crying out loud. How could you forget that happened?

Danny Kanell got the Giants to the playoffs too.

Imagine getting a GM job and not swinging the bat? He's a risk of that going with Jones in 2024.

My guess is Maye is the prize, he wants to hitch his wagon to the prospect of Maye becoming a franchise QB. I think he's going to pay the cost to move up and it'll be a lot.

Because play out this scenario: NYG drafts Nabers. He's already made comments about the QB situation here. He doesn't get the ball and gets frustrated. Thibodeaux starts talking. The team is 3-7. Fans are booing. It's ugly.

It's not out of the question Mara cleans house again. In that case, Schoen never swung the bat at QB. He just maintained Gettleman's path which he didn't even agree with based on his initial actions.

Early specifically McCarthy or Maye (cue the Cris Carter poster in here and he knows who he is).

But the differences in what Jones faced AND had to pair with were not mutually exclusive with DeVito and Tyrod at all. Facing the Cowboys, Niners, and healthy Dolphins front is much different than the 32nd ranked defense from Washington, injury mauled Bills defense (scoring 9 pts to top off that cherry), and how the Eagles defense looked in the final half of the season. Woof. No Wan'Dale who was the Giants best WR in 2023. No Saquon. Ezeudu was a turnstile and so was Glowinski, Bredeson and others inside. But I find that to the fault of bad coaching between Daboll and Bobby Johnson. No reason whatsoever the team should be lining up Ezeudu at LT when he barely has ever played there.

And again, I want a QB at #6. Daniel suffering two serious neck injuries in three seasons apart is a major risk for his life, much less football.

This is the important quote-

"If they don’t, they are simply prolonging the inevitable."

What exactly is the point of giving Jones another season? He is not the answer, how much evidence do you need? Even if they miss out on the top qbs, let Lock or someone else start to see if you can catch lightning in a bottle.

But I'm starting to get convinced Jones is getting another season.

I might be on an island on this, but given his injury history and the injury clause in his contract…I wouldn’t even let him see the field this fall.

and will say it again here, the Giants won in 2022 with Jones- not because of him. Meaning, they were able to use things he did well and minimize things he doesn't do well (for the most part) and that led to a winning season. BUT he had 15 TD passes total. I know the receivers were shit but still, 15 in 17 (possible) games is average to below average at best.

Everyone points to different moments when it became obvious things with Jones here were done but for me last year it was the Seattle game. A game where two teams were playing each other with very similar issues- Seattles Oline was beaten up and they lost two more players during the game. The Giants Oline was beaten up but we were playing at home and were somewhat healthier that night than the previous weeks.

Jones looked like shit. He threw a boneheaded pick six in the RED ZONE that basically killed the game, the season etc.. You can't play like that and it just sort of exemplified his years here.

The funny thing is, if we had won that game and beaten Buffalo and the Jets, this team probably makes the playoffs last year- which would have bought Jones even more time. So in reality it was a necessary development, result to hopefully finally move away from him.

The neck injury is serious- regardless of what he or the Giants say publicly. Go back to the Dallas game where he was concussed (that looks neck related now) and then the Eagles game where it ended his season. Now fast forward to the Dolphins game this year. That shot to the back was pretty good but should not have caused the issues he had without there being a compression of nerves in the spinal column.. The dude is a health risk we shouldn't take and at his VERY best (meaning effectiveness and mistake free) he is a 15 TD pass QB with a rushing upside as long as defenses fall for our movement and implied RB threat... That just isn't good enough...

In comment 16466317 djm said:

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Just to play along, who really "LIKES" Jones, here?

Just a partial list, but...

Jack Stroud
ryanmkeane
Snorkels
4xchamps
kickoff
Eightshamrocks

Should I continue?

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

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The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

People always reference the Seattle game, but for me the turning point was the San Francisco Thursday night game when the 49ers talked trash about his contract and the Giants had such a bloodless response.

It wasn't that his performance in that game was world historically terrible, but he was, as Sy said in his review, "just there," and that type of thing gets noticed when you're paid $40 million.

are the laughingstock of the league. It's pathetic, and Mara just doesn't see it because Jones is a nice guy.

I honestly cannot believe we're going into year 6 with the same tired "he needs more weapons!" narrative. How many chances will one player get to show he sucks?

As I and others have said, if they don't take a QB and Jones doesn't get off to a fast start things are going to get really really ugly. Like booing every time Jones snaps the ball.

It should have never gotten to this point.

I feel even if the Giants do not get the top four, it still isn't a lock Jones starts or sees the field.

The injury clause is a huge deal and something guys like Schmeelk and Dottino feel like isn't a big deal long term.

In comment 16466390 Toth029 said:

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I feel even if the Giants do not get the top four, it still isn't a lock Jones starts or sees the field. The injury clause is a huge deal and something guys like Schmeelk and Dottino feel like isn't a big deal long term.

I just don't think Mara will allow Daboll to sit him due to the injury clause. It's not the way the Giants operate even if that's what a smart football team would do. But I hope you're right

In comment 16466354 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16466352 ajr2456 said: Quote: For crying out loud. How could you forget that happened? Danny Kanell got the Giants to the playoffs too.

Kannel was a passenger who couldn't throw for 200 yards if his life depended on it. Jones helped the Giants get to the playoffs. There's a difference.

In comment 16466366 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 16466317 djm said: Quote: Just to play along, who really "LIKES" Jones, here? Just a partial list, but... Jack Stroud ryanmkeane Snorkels 4xchamps kickoff Eightshamrocks Should I continue?

Wow 6. And I am sure every one of them not named Jack goes out of their way to INSIST that Jones is the guy to build around. By "like" I mean insist that this guy is the answer going forward.

It aint 6. More like 2.

And no one goes nuts like the terrific ten here that nuke each and every thread.

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said:

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I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now.

David Carr stunk and so does Jones.

this place has gone full extreme with Jones and that side of the fence loves every second of it. The takes that don't completely condemn Jones even if they do call out his play and future here are more rational than the hose shit we se from the same posters day after day.

I mean the ringleader here literally said Dave Brown was better. Eric just conjured up Danny Kannel. Danny Fucking Kannel??

WTF happened here? Try to make your point without hyperbole.

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

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The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

You can expand that to our entire team, front office, etc are all a laughingstock. When you give a voice in personnel to family members, friends, and hangers-on, you deserve to be laughed at. This goes all the way back to the Wellington/Tim days... Where is Pete Rozelle when you need him.

done.

are way way off. He is bad. Very bad. You cannot coach around a stat like this .

Kerry Collins had the Giants in the Super Bowl. Had multiple winning seasons and over 4000 yards passing his 2nd to last year with the Giants. The Giants still traded multiple assets for Eli because they needed to upgrade to have a real chance at a championship. At some point a team needs to try and get the QB. This year seems like a good one to try.

Who said Dave Brown was better?

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said:

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I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast.

Anyway you slice it, we need to move on. The history of serious injuries, supposedly altered throwing motion, the beating he has taken, whatever, it needs to be over. Every game DJ plays from here on out is another wasted game until we start moving forward.

possibility that Lock will be our starter, whether because he outplays Jones or Jones is still hurt (or gets hurt again). Lock may not be a world-beater but he could very well be a lot better than Jones.

There are a few factors that decide this draft

I am pretty sure that the top 3 teams dont want to trade out unless you offer some outrageous deal.

So if QBs go 1,2,3 is #4 worth taking over one of the WRs? Possibly depending on which QB is there

Is it worth trading up to #4 or #5 to get the 4th rated QB? I am pretty sure the Vikings will be looking to trade up so there is either real competition or perceived competition. I don't think it's worth trading up for 2 reasons, 1st the Giants have a lot of holes without starting caliber players and I think it will cost next years #1 to get the 4th QB. 2nd our cap situation with Jones contract is awful. Without picks we have no FA money to fill the gaps with anything other than vet minimum players and I think that would lead to us being in the running for the 1st overall pick next year. Is this years 4th QB better than the 1st QB next season plus a WR this year. I dont think so.

Teams that win with a young QB either have a good team in place (Giants with Eli, KC with Mahomes, Bills with Allen, Packers with Love) or dont have to trade up to get them and they can use those other picks to build the team (Cin with Burrow and Hou with Stroud). The Jets are a team that keeps trading up to get a QB and it never works.

Sit tight at 6 and let the draft come to us. There will be a very good player there. Look at how many including Sy have the WRs rated, thats need & Value.

In comment 16466401 djm said:

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In comment 16466354 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 16466352 ajr2456 said: Quote: For crying out loud. How could you forget that happened? Danny Kanell got the Giants to the playoffs too. Kannel was a passenger who couldn't throw for 200 yards if his life depended on it. Jones helped the Giants get to the playoffs. There's a difference.

Jones had 11 games under 201 yards in 2022

for the fourth rated QB, but by who's rating? You have no idea how the Giants rate these guys. By all accounts there are 4 top QB prospects in this draft, we are picking sixth. So, yes, they may not be able to get one, but they should definitely be trying.

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said:

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I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast.

Wow a rational viewpoint on Daniel Jones. I am not sure that is allowed on BBI.

In comment 16466401 djm said:

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In comment 16466354 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 16466352 ajr2456 said: Quote: For crying out loud. How could you forget that happened? Danny Kanell got the Giants to the playoffs too. Kannel was a passenger who couldn't throw for 200 yards if his life depended on it. Jones helped the Giants get to the playoffs. There's a difference.

Wrong.

I saw Danny Kannell throw three touchdowns in a game in Philadelphia with the division on the line. When is the last time Jones threw three touchdown passes? (hint: he was a rookie)

Also, you're really over-playing Daniel's impact during the regular season in 2022. What, his play against the lowly Colts? C'mon.

Why things weren’t functional outside of 2022. Occam’s razor suggests that’s the case.

In comment 16466279 Sean said:

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He's just not good enough. [/bBizarre contract given looking back.[/b] I think Schoen will do whatever it takes to draft a QB. If not, start Lock and draft a mid round QB. I still lean first round QB though.

Sean, don't recall if it was you with the Lombardi thread (via 'intelligence' from Owners' meeting) on Jones' contract--that Mara in effect directed that it happen. Wasn't much discussion there on the Mara role, was there?

Can Schoen navigate this so that Jones does not play thereby risking the injury guaranteed payment in '25?

Dave Brown 23-30 as a starter.
Daniel Jones 23-36-1 as a starter.

When we’re debating who is better-Jones or Brown-we’ve officially hit rock bottom at the position.

In comment 16466415 djm said:

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this place has gone full extreme with Jones and that side of the fence loves every second of it. The takes that don't completely condemn Jones even if they do call out his play and future here are more rational than the hose shit we se from the same posters day after day. I mean the ringleader here literally said Dave Brown was better. Eric just conjured up Danny Kannel. Danny Fucking Kannel?? WTF happened here? Try to make your point without hyperbole.

It's only hyperbolic in relation to your exaggerated view of Jones

In comment 16466352 ajr2456 said:

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For crying out loud. How could you forget that happened?

Tim Tebow won a playoff game

He threw for 300+ yds and 3 TDs and beat the 1 ranked defense in the Steelers

Comparison is basically that Jones is Kannell except he can run.

Daniel Jones is firmly in the Brown/Kanell class of Giants QBs.

Danny Kanell went into Philadelphia, with the division on the line, and won a game the Giants were supposed to lose. He threw three touchdowns.

Jones' best equivalent is his Casablanca playoff game.

My point for bringing Kanell up is one game doesn't make a career. Right?

In comment 16466448 LW_Giants said:

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for the fourth rated QB, but by who's rating? You have no idea how the Giants rate these guys. By all accounts there are 4 top QB prospects in this draft, we are picking sixth. So, yes, they may not be able to get one, but they should definitely be trying.

You can go look at a lot of different rankings, but youre right, the only one that matters is the Giants ranking. I personally dont see a wow factor in any of these guys. When I looked at Stroud last year, he was the wow factor and I still can't see why Carolina drafted Young. Im not saying these guys will all be busts but I dont think they have anything that jumps off the screen. If one lands at 6 and you like him go ahead and take the shot.

None of these guys are worth a move up to me.

In comment 16466480 Go Terps said:

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Daniel Jones is firmly in the Brown/Kanell class of Giants QBs.

He is in the Jerry Golsteyn/Randy Dean class...lol

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said:

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I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast.

This is simply wrong on many levels. "Worst situation in the NFL" over 5 seasons? You can't be serious.

In all my years in following sports I have never seen anything like the excuses laid out for Jones by his owner, GM and fans.

The guy can't play QB at a high level and wouldn't sniff another starting job anywhere else. Why is he possibly getting another scholarship year here?

In comment 16466460 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16466401 djm said: Quote: In comment 16466354 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 16466352 ajr2456 said: Quote: For crying out loud. How could you forget that happened? Danny Kanell got the Giants to the playoffs too. Kannel was a passenger who couldn't throw for 200 yards if his life depended on it. Jones helped the Giants get to the playoffs. There's a difference. Wrong. I saw Danny Kannell throw three touchdowns in a game in Philadelphia with the division on the line. When is the last time Jones threw three touchdown passes? (hint: he was a rookie) Also, you're really over-playing Daniel's impact during the regular season in 2022. What, his play against the lowly Colts? C'mon.

You've got to be kidding me....Kannel beat the likes of 1997 Philly and Washington. And WHOOOA those 97 Cowboys. And he had an insanely good defense. HE isn't winning games against Aaron Rodgers or Lamar JAckson. HE sure as fuck isn't putting 30 points on the board. How do I know that? It actually fucking happened. No 30 point games in 1997. The 97 Giants scored a whopping 307 pts that year while giving up 265. They forced dozens of turovers and killed QBs all year long. They stopped the run on an elite level. And when they played an even WORSE veriosn of the Vikings, at home, your boy hung up 199 yards passing in a loss.

Stop. Jones isn't good but stop already.

it did happen 3 times that year. Thanks to a million forced turnovers.

Danny Kannel was a BAD QB. He couldn't beat good or even average defenses without a lot of help from his own D. HE couldn't throw a good ball on his best day. The dude didn't just throw wobbly passes he threw fucking kites that hung in the air like balloons. He couldn't run.

Jones can run. That alone places him well above Kannel and of course, Terps' favorite, Dave Brown. HE also scored 365 pts with nothing more than BArkley. That in and of itself gives him pelts that Kannel can not boast.

Why. Why do we do this.

In comment 16466541 djm said:

Quote:

it did happen 3 times that year. Thanks to a million Why. Why do we do this.

Because Jones stinks and we're tired of watching him play poorly.

In the last three season of Daniel Jones. The Colts and the Cardinals.

I am not overplaying anything Jones did. You are over stating or making things up simply to drive a narrative. Not once did I say Jones did anything special or even great. I said he's better than Kannel and I posted facts to back it up. You then took that and exaggerated things.

Don't tell me QB-A is equal when his best year was WORSE than QB-B's best year. I posted clear reasons why and that gets twisted into me overhyping his play? WTF. Nope. Try again.

You guys need to pound this guy into Jamaracus Russell territory when you should just stop at he's not that good.

In comment 16466541 djm said:

Quote:

it did happen 3 times that year. Thanks to a million forced turnovers. Danny Kannel was a BAD QB. He couldn't beat good or even average defenses without a lot of help from his own D. HE couldn't throw a good ball on his best day. The dude didn't just throw wobbly passes he threw fucking kites that hung in the air like balloons. He couldn't run. Jones can run. That alone places him well above Kannel and of course, Terps' favorite, Dave Brown. HE also scored 365 pts with nothing more than BArkley. That in and of itself gives him pelts that Kannel can not boast. Why. Why do we do this.

Kanell was indeed a bad starting QB. That's the point.

In comment 16466550 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In the last three season of Daniel Jones. The Colts and the Cardinals.

You forgot that playoff game which apparently doesn't matter. And we know about 2023.

Try again. Tell me he's worse than the likes of Kannel and Brown and back it up with facts. You can't. And former HCs agree with Daboll because KAnnell was only allowed to start for about 1.5 seasons. Why. Ask yourself why.

That changes everything. Hang the banner!

In comment 16466560 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16466541 djm said: Quote: it did happen 3 times that year. Thanks to a million forced turnovers. Danny Kannel was a BAD QB. He couldn't beat good or even average defenses without a lot of help from his own D. HE couldn't throw a good ball on his best day. The dude didn't just throw wobbly passes he threw fucking kites that hung in the air like balloons. He couldn't run. Jones can run. That alone places him well above Kannel and of course, Terps' favorite, Dave Brown. HE also scored 365 pts with nothing more than BArkley. That in and of itself gives him pelts that Kannel can not boast. Why. Why do we do this. Kanell was indeed a bad starting QB. That's the point.

Oh. OK.

You're completely missing the point.

The fact that we're having this discussion is all you need to know.

In comment 16466561 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16466550 ajr2456 said: Quote: In the last three season of Daniel Jones. The Colts and the Cardinals. You forgot that playoff game which apparently doesn't matter. And we know about 2023. Try again. Tell me he's worse than the likes of Kannel and Brown and back it up with facts. You can't. And former HCs agree with Daboll because KAnnell was only allowed to start for about 1.5 seasons. Why. Ask yourself why.

They’re both bad QBs and Jones should have only gotten 1.5 years to start too. It’s pretty simple.

In comment 16466565 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

That changes everything. Hang the banner!

You said that not anyone else. I know I didn't.

Waste of time. But hey you got another thread driving up traffic. You win.

We’re having a debate over who was better-Jones or Kanell.

New York Giants football…feel the excitement!!!

You felt the need to correct the two to three.

Any time a Daniel Jones discussion breaks out you kick and scream and yell that you’re done discussing it, but then continue to comment on every discussion.

You can simply ignore it.

In comment 16466572 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

You're completely missing the point. The fact that we're having this discussion is all you need to know.

The point was lost because you exaggerated. So do many others here. Daily.

In comment 16466578 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16466565 ajr2456 said: Quote: That changes everything. Hang the banner! You said that not anyone else. I know I didn't. Waste of time. But hey you got another thread driving up traffic. You win.

You don't have to do this, you know. Daniel Jones sure as shit doesn't care that you're defending his honor against the slanderous cretins of BBI who dare besmirch his accomplishments.

In comment 16466590 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

You felt the need to correct the two to three. Any time a Daniel Jones discussion breaks out you kick and scream and yell that you’re done discussing it, but then continue to comment on every discussion. You can simply ignore it.

I don't like ignoring lies.

In comment 16466594 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16466572 Eric from BBI said: Quote: You're completely missing the point. The fact that we're having this discussion is all you need to know. The point was lost because you exaggerated. So do many others here. Daily.

Are Jones's record as a starter, touchdown totals, and contract being exaggerated?

In comment 16466598 rsjem1979 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466578 djm said: Quote: In comment 16466565 ajr2456 said: Quote: That changes everything. Hang the banner! You said that not anyone else. I know I didn't. Waste of time. But hey you got another thread driving up traffic. You win. You don't have to do this, you know. Daniel Jones sure as shit doesn't care that you're defending his honor against the slanderous cretins of BBI who dare besmirch his accomplishments.

Despite his protests otherwise DJM is a big FC member

bang up job as always. What did we learn here? Nothing.

Maybe one day some of you will figure out why so many highly drafted QBs fail at the NFL level while every other position fails at a much lower level. Until then, just pound away with your same tired and lazy I told you so agendas. Good luck.

Again, W-L record of these quarterbacks are what they are.

What the offense did with Daniel Jones, Tyrod Taylor, and Danny DeVito is out there.

Jones' statistically-proven issues with throwing down the field (yards per throw) and TD passes are facts.

There are not subjective measures.

There is no other QB in recent NFL history that has the record Jones has and has gotten a 6th season. Its outrageous and fans should be outraged.

The worst situation in the NFL and "screwed him up" Mara comments is bullshit.

In comment 16466604 Scooter185 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466598 rsjem1979 said: Quote: In comment 16466578 djm said: Quote: In comment 16466565 ajr2456 said: Quote: That changes everything. Hang the banner! You said that not anyone else. I know I didn't. Waste of time. But hey you got another thread driving up traffic. You win. You don't have to do this, you know. Daniel Jones sure as shit doesn't care that you're defending his honor against the slanderous cretins of BBI who dare besmirch his accomplishments. Despite his protests otherwise DJM is a big FC member

NAh, not even close. I am a fan club member of real analysis. Not just popular belief or perception.

In comment 16466608 djm said:

Quote:

bang up job as always. What did we learn here? Nothing. Maybe one day some of you will figure out why so many highly drafted QBs fail at the NFL level while every other position fails at a much lower level. Until then, just pound away with your same tired and lazy I told you so agendas. Good luck.

Because it's the most difficult position in sports and very few people on the planet can do it at an elite level, so it's absurd to get attached to the ones who can't.

it doesn't matter what you and I ultimately think, but it damn sure does matter what the players think. Players who haven't even been drafted yet are dissing him, including a guy who we may draft.

In comment 16466609 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Again, W-L record of these quarterbacks are what they are. What the offense did with Daniel Jones, Tyrod Taylor, and Danny DeVito is out there. Jones' statistically-proven issues with throwing down the field (yards per throw) and TD passes are facts. There are not subjective measures.

I wasn't talking about 2023 but if you have seen my posts I killed Jones for the 23 season. More than once.

It's fine we're done. I won't even bother anymore as it seems some here just need to vent about Jones and at times, echo hyperbole. Whatever works. I just have to retort sometimes. Saying he's Danny Kannel is not accurate. HE isn't re-signed if he was. He was better than that in 22. But you don't see it that way. Fine.

chairman of the DJFC! Jack Stroud is going to be pissed.

In comment 16466615 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16466604 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16466598 rsjem1979 said: Quote: In comment 16466578 djm said: Quote: In comment 16466565 ajr2456 said: Quote: That changes everything. Hang the banner! You said that not anyone else. I know I didn't. Waste of time. But hey you got another thread driving up traffic. You win. You don't have to do this, you know. Daniel Jones sure as shit doesn't care that you're defending his honor against the slanderous cretins of BBI who dare besmirch his accomplishments. Despite his protests otherwise DJM is a big FC member NAh, not even close. I am a fan club member of real analysis. Not just popular belief or perception.

Then the DJ "hate" threads wouldn't get under your skin. In fact you've said you're compelled to defend him because of "extreme takes"

Although the takes aren't that extreme...

In comment 16466612 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

There is no other QB in recent NFL history that has the record Jones has and has gotten a 6th season. Its outrageous and fans should be outraged. The worst situation in the NFL and "screwed him up" Mara comments is bullshit.

Some of us are outraged.

In comment 16466612 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

There is no other QB in recent NFL history that has the record Jones has and has gotten a 6th season. Its outrageous and fans should be outraged. The worst situation in the NFL and "screwed him up" Mara comments is bullshit.

Incredibly mystifying. I will never understand the whole thing.

In comment 16466617 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

it doesn't matter what you and I ultimately think, but it damn sure does matter what the players think. Players who haven't even been drafted yet are dissing him, including a guy who we may draft.

Yea, I don't really care about those players. Players like Warren Sapp used to kill ELi Manning when he was already a winning NFL QB.

Players are meatheads.

I want a new QB too. I don't know what else to say but feel free to label me childish DJFC.

In comment 16466623 LW_Giants said:

Quote:

chairman of the DJFC! Jack Stroud is going to be pissed.

Jack has to be a troll. Even Daniel’s mother-if read Jack’s posts-would be like, ‘Settle down about my son. He isn’t infallible.’

In comment 16466617 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

it doesn't matter what you and I ultimately think, but it damn sure does matter what the players think. Players who haven't even been drafted yet are dissing him, including a guy who we may draft.

What's this in reference to?

Related but I met someone who works for an NFL team recently and lets just say he didn't think too highly of Jones. Nothing groundbreaking but still interesting and sad to hear from an opposing team.

In comment 16466599 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16466590 ajr2456 said: Quote: You felt the need to correct the two to three. Any time a Daniel Jones discussion breaks out you kick and scream and yell that you’re done discussing it, but then continue to comment on every discussion. You can simply ignore it. I don't like ignoring lies.

What are the lies? If Kannell played in todays NFL he’d probably average a whopping 208 yards a game too.

Nabers said something about the Giants QB situation. And it wasn’t good, though I forget what exactly he said.

In comment 16466642 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466599 djm said: Quote: In comment 16466590 ajr2456 said: Quote: You felt the need to correct the two to three. Any time a Daniel Jones discussion breaks out you kick and scream and yell that you’re done discussing it, but then continue to comment on every discussion. You can simply ignore it. I don't like ignoring lies. What are the lies? If Kannell played in todays NFL he’d probably average a whopping 208 yards a game too.

One more time--Jones was and is a better QB than Kannel or Dave Brown. Jones did more in 2022 than Kannel did in 1997. The points scored backs it up. The eye test backs it up. The defensive talent on both teams backs it up.

The 97 Giants would be better if they had Jones and the 22 Giants would be worse if they had Kannel. Running skills matter. ANd yes, I know that isn't a high bar and we need to be better. Let me add that before some fucko piles that on.

This is fucking STUPID. A few people started up with the Kannel takes and I disagreed while at the same time saying Jones needs to be upgraded here.

Done.

In comment 16466467 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Dave Brown 23-30 as a starter. Daniel Jones 23-36-1 as a starter.

Trevor Lawrence has simular statistics and overall record since he's been in the league, too.

Here you go...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub1-0QIqWC4 - ( New Window )

you would all be so unfulfilled and bored. You're welcome.

In comment 16466267 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

site has gone back and forth on Daniel Jones for years now. Those who like him will come up with something, those who don't like him will come up with something else.

I take it in the camp that comes up with something else.

Quote:

But beyond this, THE PLAYERS know. We saw the first hints of that with Giants saying Saquon should have been paid before Daniel.

But beyond this, THE HEAD COACH AND GENERAL MANAGER know even more than the players and they gave him $82M in guaranteed money. Money talks, bullshit walks.

Quote:

Then there is the whole injury thing, which may end this once and for all.

This is the bottomline, but it doesn't mean they need to throw a hail mary at the QB position. If there's a QB truly worthy of a top ten pick, they should jump on it if the draft capital cost isn't prohibitive. Short of that, take one of the receivers who appear to be on a higher row than the QB prospects.

p.s.--Personally, my favorite is Penix. Would love a draft that went Nabers, trade up for Penix, and then Brooks and Sinnott some how. Not realistic, I know (but Levis falling to round two didn't seem realistic at this time last year).

That Nabers sound bite is worse than I remember.

The $160 million contract was a colossal mistake.

Everyone knows it. Eisen has already reported that the word at the Combine was the Giants have huge "buyer's remorse." He's not a guy prone to rumor mongering.

Money talks, bullshit walks???

LOL

In comment 16466653 Toth029 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466467 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Dave Brown 23-30 as a starter. Daniel Jones 23-36-1 as a starter. Trevor Lawrence has simular statistics and overall record since he's been in the league, too.

Yea well he sucks too if you listen to a few people here. Never mind that he was playing on a shot out ankle last season. He sucks. Stats. STATS.

Meanwhile, Eli from 2004-2006 was NOT as good as TL's first 3 seasons. But I am sure that everyone was all knowing and patient with Mr Manning back then. Sure.

Maybe there's more to this NFL game than we all think. TL was as flawless a QB prospect to come along, maybe ever. OK rookie year. Damn good year 2. Setback or drop off in year 3. And now we want to let him walk in FA? Not me.

In comment 16466663 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

That Nabers sound bite is worse than I remember.

Do a YouTube search. The reactions to this clip from the media is embarrassing as hell. Everyone starts laughing. They can't help it.

Now imagine if the Giants draft Nabers.

In comment 16466653 Toth029 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466467 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Dave Brown 23-30 as a starter. Daniel Jones 23-36-1 as a starter. Trevor Lawrence has simular statistics and overall record since he's been in the league, too.

Check Lawrence’s record and stats post Urban Meyer

In comment 16466651 djm said:

Quote:

One more time--Jones was and is a better QB than Kannel or Dave Brown. Jones did more in 2022 than Kannel did in 1997. The points scored backs it up. The eye test backs it up. The defensive talent on both teams backs it up. The 97 Giants would be better if they had Jones and the 22 Giants would be worse if they had Kannel. Running skills matter. ANd yes, I know that isn't a high bar and we need to be better. Let me add that before some fucko piles that on. This is fucking STUPID. A few people started up with the Kannel takes and I disagreed while at the same time saying Jones needs to be upgraded here. Done.

And one more time, Jones is the same bucket as Kannell and Brown. Their stats being worse 25-30 years ago is irrelevant.

Jones is near the bottom of nearly every passing category since he came into the league. Even the advanced ones. The same as Kannell and Brown. He’s their peer, not their superior.

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said:

Quote:

I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast.

+1

It’s amazing ppl conveniently minimize playing QB is a function of EVERYTHING around a QB. And DJ has had the absolute worst around him… bottom-ranked OL and WR corps. I can’t tell you how many I saw DJ throw a deep ball and hit Slayton RIGHT IN HIS HANDS and he dropped it. One I remember in the endzone. This idea of DJ being scared to throw deep or won’t throw deep is simplistic. The scheme changed in 2022 to protect a QB from a leaky line. And Daboll realized he didn’t necessarily have the personnel for a vertical passing attack. Slayton, Hodgins and James don’t scream vertical, deep passes combined with a poor pass blocking line.

In addition, DJ in 2023 was CLEARLY shell-shocked from a poorly- constructed OL that give DJ less than 2 seconds to do anything worthwhile after they lost Andrew Thomas.

In comment 16466582 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

We’re having a debate over who was better-Jones or Kanell. New York Giants football…feel the excitement!!!

Like you have said many times in the past, NYG football is now only interesting in the off-season.

Here is where we are trending:

Many BBIers who are clamoring for an "elite WR" are likely going to get their wish.

When that occurs, along with not drafting a QB, the narrative will shift to: "Well, now that we have the elite WR and the OL looks better, we might as well see how Jones does with these improved pieces..."

Jones, Lock, Cutlets. Your 2024 NYG QB Room.

In comment 16466678 Four Aces said:

Quote:

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said: Quote: I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast. +1 It’s amazing ppl conveniently minimize playing QB is a function of EVERYTHING around a QB. And DJ has had the absolute worst around him… bottom-ranked OL and WR corps. I can’t tell you how many I saw DJ throw a deep ball and hit Slayton RIGHT IN HIS HANDS and he dropped it. One I remember in the endzone. This idea of DJ being scared to throw deep or won’t throw deep is simplistic. The scheme changed in 2022 to protect a QB from a leaky line. And Daboll realized he didn’t necessarily have the personnel for a vertical passing attack. Slayton, Hodgins and James don’t scream vertical, deep passes combined with a poor pass blocking line. In addition, DJ in 2023 was CLEARLY shell-shocked from a poorly- constructed OL that give DJ less than 2 seconds to do anything worthwhile after they lost Andrew Thomas.

Nothing is ever Daniel Jones' fault. It's always the people around him letting him down. Well, don't worry, you're getting year 6 of shitty Jones play! What will the excuse for him be this time?

Also, why didn't DeVito and Taylor have the same issues throwing down field if it's all because of the team and none of it becasue of Jones?

In comment 16466679 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16466582 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: We’re having a debate over who was better-Jones or Kanell. New York Giants football…feel the excitement!!! Like you have said many times in the past, NYG football is now only interesting in the off-season. Here is where we are trending: Many BBIers who are clamoring for an "elite WR" are likely going to get their wish. When that occurs, along with not drafting a QB, the narrative will shift to: "Well, now that we have the elite WR and the OL looks better, we might as well see how Jones does with these improved pieces..." Jones, Lock, Cutlets. Your 2024 NYG QB Room.

I just vomited a little in my mouth. When Jones still sucks next year, the new excuse will be that the running game just wasn't good enough, or defense didn't keep them in games, or coaching didn't take advantage of Jones' strengths. It's never Jones' fault.

In comment 16466678 Four Aces said:

Quote:

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said: Quote: I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast. +1 It’s amazing ppl conveniently minimize playing QB is a function of EVERYTHING around a QB. And DJ has had the absolute worst around him… bottom-ranked OL and WR corps. I can’t tell you how many I saw DJ throw a deep ball and hit Slayton RIGHT IN HIS HANDS and he dropped it. One I remember in the endzone. This idea of DJ being scared to throw deep or won’t throw deep is simplistic. The scheme changed in 2022 to protect a QB from a leaky line. And Daboll realized he didn’t necessarily have the personnel for a vertical passing attack. Slayton, Hodgins and James don’t scream vertical, deep passes combined with a poor pass blocking line. In addition, DJ in 2023 was CLEARLY shell-shocked from a poorly- constructed OL that give DJ less than 2 seconds to do anything worthwhile after they lost Andrew Thomas.

Now explain the other 3 seasons.

OLine, weapons (cnveniently leaving out Barkley in 2022 who was more important and better), shell shocked. What else? Temperature in the locker room not right?

He's been the one constant over 5 seasons with a bad offense. Maybe he's the problem? Maybe its as simple as he's not a good QB?

In comment 16466679 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16466582 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: We’re having a debate over who was better-Jones or Kanell. New York Giants football…feel the excitement!!! Like you have said many times in the past, NYG football is now only interesting in the off-season. Here is where we are trending: Many BBIers who are clamoring for an "elite WR" are likely going to get their wish. When that occurs, along with not drafting a QB, the narrative will shift to: "Well, now that we have the elite WR and the OL looks better, we might as well see how Jones does with these improved pieces..." Jones, Lock, Cutlets. Your 2024 NYG QB Room.

Okay, that settles it. Let's draft McCarthy.

In comment 16466669 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466651 djm said: Quote: One more time--Jones was and is a better QB than Kannel or Dave Brown. Jones did more in 2022 than Kannel did in 1997. The points scored backs it up. The eye test backs it up. The defensive talent on both teams backs it up. The 97 Giants would be better if they had Jones and the 22 Giants would be worse if they had Kannel. Running skills matter. ANd yes, I know that isn't a high bar and we need to be better. Let me add that before some fucko piles that on. This is fucking STUPID. A few people started up with the Kannel takes and I disagreed while at the same time saying Jones needs to be upgraded here. Done. And one more time, Jones is the same bucket as Kannell and Brown. Their stats being worse 25-30 years ago is irrelevant. Jones is near the bottom of nearly every passing category since he came into the league. Even the advanced ones. The same as Kannell and Brown. He’s their peer, not their superior.

Yea, I don't care--I really don't want to hear it. Jones is a better QB than Kannel and Brown. I'll die on that hill every time. That's the only reason I even got sucked into this shit show in the first place.

Better athlete. Better thrower. Better runner. And his best season was better than DK and DB's best seasons.

Same bucket? WTF does that mean. He's not the same QB. He's better. HE can still be your worst nightmare but he's better than those guys.

In comment 16466684 LW_Giants said:

Quote:

In comment 16466679 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 16466582 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: We’re having a debate over who was better-Jones or Kanell. New York Giants football…feel the excitement!!! Like you have said many times in the past, NYG football is now only interesting in the off-season. Here is where we are trending: Many BBIers who are clamoring for an "elite WR" are likely going to get their wish. When that occurs, along with not drafting a QB, the narrative will shift to: "Well, now that we have the elite WR and the OL looks better, we might as well see how Jones does with these improved pieces..." Jones, Lock, Cutlets. Your 2024 NYG QB Room. I just vomited a little in my mouth. When Jones still sucks next year, the new excuse will be that the running game just wasn't good enough, or defense didn't keep them in games, or coaching didn't take advantage of Jones' strengths. It's never Jones' fault.

Don't forget calling the shiny new wr a bust

In comment 16466702 djm said:

Quote:

Same bucket? WTF does that mean. He's not the same QB. He's better. HE can still be your worst nightmare but he's better than those guys.

He’s statically one of the worst throwing starting QBs in the league for his career. So were Kannell and Brown.

Maybe he’s slightly better, but that’s irrelevant. They were among the worst during their time, he’s amongst the worst in the league in his time. Not a hard concept.

on Twitter discussing Trump.

The real cause of all this angst is the inability of the Giants to come up with even a mediocre offensive line despite throwing tons of resources at it. Flowers and Neal. They could have done better putting a line together out of undrafted free agents and letting them play together for a season.

Most of the linemen have not just lacked talent, but were never allowed to stay together as a unit and play for a season. Look at the 2007 line and you won't find a lot of pedigree among Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie, but you will notice that all five of them played in all 16 games.

Four years later, it was almost the same. Diehl had to move from guard back to left tackle and they were still good enough to beat the Niners and the Patriots.

In comment 16466702 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16466669 ajr2456 said: Quote: In comment 16466651 djm said: Quote: One more time--Jones was and is a better QB than Kannel or Dave Brown. Jones did more in 2022 than Kannel did in 1997. The points scored backs it up. The eye test backs it up. The defensive talent on both teams backs it up. The 97 Giants would be better if they had Jones and the 22 Giants would be worse if they had Kannel. Running skills matter. ANd yes, I know that isn't a high bar and we need to be better. Let me add that before some fucko piles that on. This is fucking STUPID. A few people started up with the Kannel takes and I disagreed while at the same time saying Jones needs to be upgraded here. Done. And one more time, Jones is the same bucket as Kannell and Brown. Their stats being worse 25-30 years ago is irrelevant. Jones is near the bottom of nearly every passing category since he came into the league. Even the advanced ones. The same as Kannell and Brown. He’s their peer, not their superior. Yea, I don't care--I really don't want to hear it. Jones is a better QB than Kannel and Brown. I'll die on that hill every time. That's the only reason I even got sucked into this shit show in the first place. Better athlete. Better thrower. Better runner. And his best season was better than DK and DB's best seasons. Same bucket? WTF does that mean. He's not the same QB. He's better. HE can still be your worst nightmare but he's better than those guys.

Arguing with some of these guys is a waste of time. They don't want to hear it. Even when you prove them wrong with physical proof they can't admit it.

In comment 16466704 Scooter185 said:

Quote:

I just vomited a little in my mouth. When Jones still sucks next year, the new excuse will be that the running game just wasn't good enough, or defense didn't keep them in games, or coaching didn't take advantage of Jones' strengths. It's never Jones' fault. Don't forget calling the shiny new wr a bust

Already setting the stage for Nabers to have a "bad attitude" compared to sweet, hard-working Daniel.

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said:

Quote:

I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast.

This take is an example of the excuse making for this guy that is beyond laughable at this point. Daniel Jones is not a has-been because he was put in a bad position and had the life kicked out of him. He is a never was that this organization kept making excuses for.

Daniel Jones has gotten many more opportunities from the Giants than he has earned. The only reason he was "solid" in 2022 is Daboll realized the only way to win with Jones is to make him a runner. He is not an NFL level pocket passer. He has never been on his entire NFL career. Did he get "David Carr'd" in training camp his rookie year?

Woof. Getting all worked up to prove Jones is better than Danny Kanell is the definition of moral victory. This is certainly one of those moments where when you win, you lose.

Determined based off how the team operates around them. If we continue to put shit around the next QB - they will be shitty… whether it’s Caleb Williams or Bo Nix.

Draft the QB, find his strengths, and then give him the support he needs.

In comment 16466405 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16466366 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 16466317 djm said: Quote: Just to play along, who really "LIKES" Jones, here? Just a partial list, but... Jack Stroud ryanmkeane Snorkels 4xchamps kickoff Eightshamrocks Should I continue? Wow 6. And I am sure every one of them not named Jack goes out of their way to INSIST that Jones is the guy to build around. By "like" I mean insist that this guy is the answer going forward. It aint 6. More like 2. And no one goes nuts like the terrific ten here that nuke each and every thread.

There's more than that. Was "just a partial list..." too much for you?

We can start by adding you, for example, along with the other posters who chased you down this rabbithole on this very thread (most of whom I keep muted for sanity's sake, but I enjoy seeing your posts).

You don't notice your fellow fan club members posts nearly as much, because you agree with them.

In comment 16466728 christian said:

Quote:

Woof. Getting all worked up to prove Jones is better than Danny Kanell is the definition of moral victory. This is certainly one of those moments where when you win, you lose.

Wasn't trying to win anything. I didn't start that debate I merely added some facts or clarity to the discussion.

In comment 16466741 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16466728 christian said: Quote: Woof. Getting all worked up to prove Jones is better than Danny Kanell is the definition of moral victory. This is certainly one of those moments where when you win, you lose. Wasn't trying to win anything. I didn't start that debate I merely added some facts or clarity to the discussion.

Dude, the next facts or clarity that you add to this discussion will be the first.

In comment 16466667 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16466663 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: That Nabers sound bite is worse than I remember. Do a YouTube search. The reactions to this clip from the media is embarrassing as hell. Everyone starts laughing. They can't help it. Now imagine if the Giants draft Nabers.

That was bad. I saw an ESPN panel reaction that included Schefter. They were laughing. Schefter said that talk around the league was that NYG would not go QB and would instead fill holes. Florio is the agents’ conduit; Schefter strikes me as the approved corporate NFL conduit. I bet what he “is hearing” is accurate and NYG fans hoping for a QB fix will have to keep their fingers crossed on a Milton/Pratt/Travis level Hail Mary at best.

Here's another point guys. Does anyone know IF Jones can still play QB.
When he came back from the 2nd neck injury, there were reports his throwing motion changed and he was abysmal. Then tore his ACL. There's a decent chance he can't even play at the level he showed in 2022.
Start Lock, bench him, cut him, whatever. The PR nightmare that would ensue if he hurts the neck AGAIN, and has to be taken off on a stretcher is unfathomable to me.

In comment 16466747 Dave on the UWS said:

Quote:

Here's another point guys. Does anyone know IF Jones can still play QB. When he came back from the 2nd neck injury, there were reports his throwing motion changed and he was abysmal. Then tore his ACL. There's a decent chance he can't even play at the level he showed in 2022. Start Lock, bench him, cut him, whatever. The PR nightmare that would ensue if he hurts the neck AGAIN, and has to be taken off on a stretcher is unfathomable to me.

That might be what it takes for the Giants to move on from him though, a liberal physical inability to play the position. Giants shouldn't let it come to that, but all signs point to that being where we're headed.

In comment 16466739 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 16466405 djm said: Quote: In comment 16466366 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 16466317 djm said: Quote: Just to play along, who really "LIKES" Jones, here? Just a partial list, but... Jack Stroud ryanmkeane Snorkels 4xchamps kickoff Eightshamrocks Should I continue? Wow 6. And I am sure every one of them not named Jack goes out of their way to INSIST that Jones is the guy to build around. By "like" I mean insist that this guy is the answer going forward. It aint 6. More like 2. And no one goes nuts like the terrific ten here that nuke each and every thread. There's more than that. Was "just a partial list..." too much for you? We can start by adding you, for example, along with the other posters who chased you down this rabbithole on this very thread (most of whom I keep muted for sanity's sake, but I enjoy seeing your posts). You don't notice your fellow fan club members posts nearly as much, because you agree with them.

I notice them all.

This place has gone so crazy that if you say you want a new QB you're still labeled as DJFC. That's when you you know the debate has jumped the shark.

There are a very select few here that go out of their way to praise Jones. Very few. There are dozens here who relish in the chance to label rational posters or even slightly Pollyanna posters. They relish the chance to rub their noses in it for cautiously defending the NYG QB.

It's just ugly here now.

sorry for enjoying 2022. Sorry for believing that Jones could build off 2022. Blame me and the others like me.

In comment 16466665 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Money talks, bullshit walks???

I guess the message here is that anyone signed to a big contract by an NFL team is worth the money because the experts gave them that money?

"Solid logic. I completely agree!"
- Kenny Golladay

I can take it.

Still respect and appreciate all of you. Let's have a great draft and find the QB we all need.

Are we sure Jones is better?

He sure didnt have Saquon Barkley leading the NFL in rushing after 9 weeks And going 7-3

The Giants offense ranked 48th out of 48. It’s a team game and we were terrible.

In comment 16466761 HardTruth said:

Quote:

Are we sure Jones is better? He sure didnt have Saquon Barkley leading the NFL in rushing after 9 weeks And going 7-3

22 TDs. Rushing skills matter.

In comment 16466687 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

In comment 16466678 Four Aces said: Quote: In comment 16466287 mittenedman said: Quote: I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast. +1 It’s amazing ppl conveniently minimize playing QB is a function of EVERYTHING around a QB. And DJ has had the absolute worst around him… bottom-ranked OL and WR corps. I can’t tell you how many I saw DJ throw a deep ball and hit Slayton RIGHT IN HIS HANDS and he dropped it. One I remember in the endzone. This idea of DJ being scared to throw deep or won’t throw deep is simplistic. The scheme changed in 2022 to protect a QB from a leaky line. And Daboll realized he didn’t necessarily have the personnel for a vertical passing attack. Slayton, Hodgins and James don’t scream vertical, deep passes combined with a poor pass blocking line. In addition, DJ in 2023 was CLEARLY shell-shocked from a poorly- constructed OL that give DJ less than 2 seconds to do anything worthwhile after they lost Andrew Thomas. Now explain the other 3 seasons. OLine, weapons (cnveniently leaving out Barkley in 2022 who was more important and better), shell shocked. What else? Temperature in the locker room not right? He's been the one constant over 5 seasons with a bad offense. Maybe he's the problem? Maybe its as simple as he's not a good QB?

There’s been a lot of constants…. DJ, poor OL, subpar WRs and TEs. This offense doesn’t scare anyone.

In comment 16466753 djm said:

Quote:

sorry for enjoying 2022. Sorry for believing that Jones could build off 2022. Blame me and the others like me.

You're martyr act on this thread is getting out of hand. You are coming across like this guy is your kid and you need to defend his honor from the idiotic masses.

Jones is a bad QB who most of this fan base is frustrated watching and even more frustrated that their organization seems to want to cling to no matter what happens on the field. So yeah, more posts making excuses for why he is actually an ok QB with bad circumstances are met with derision. It echos the excuses that made by the front office that have subjected us all to watching him flunder these past several years, and possibly again next year.

If you don't understand the Jones frustration is not borne of personal hatred toward the man and not the front office that keeps trotting him out there while expressing their belief in him, that is on you not everyone else.

no waiting, no hoping no projection. Just come in and light it the fuck up right away. Not likely, but one can dream I guess.

To me the only guy capable of that is Williams and maybe Daniels but not sure we can get Daniels.

In comment 16466770 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

In comment 16466753 djm said: Quote: sorry for enjoying 2022. Sorry for believing that Jones could build off 2022. Blame me and the others like me. You're martyr act on this thread is getting out of hand. You are coming across like this guy is your kid and you need to defend his honor from the idiotic masses. Jones is a bad QB who most of this fan base is frustrated watching and even more frustrated that their organization seems to want to cling to no matter what happens on the field. So yeah, more posts making excuses for why he is actually an ok QB with bad circumstances are met with derision. It echos the excuses that made by the front office that have subjected us all to watching him flunder these past several years, and possibly again next year. If you don't understand the Jones frustration is not borne of personal hatred toward the man and not the front office that keeps trotting him out there while expressing their belief in him, that is on you not everyone else.

OK. and much like the martyrdom act, the other side is equally as bad. I was laying it on thick there, but I guess you missed that point. Common in this thread for points to be missed.

I am not really sorry for anything.

Ok bye. I need to do some work today.

In comment 16466683 LW_Giants said:

Quote:

In comment 16466678 Four Aces said: Quote: In comment 16466287 mittenedman said: Quote: I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast. +1 It’s amazing ppl conveniently minimize playing QB is a function of EVERYTHING around a QB. And DJ has had the absolute worst around him… bottom-ranked OL and WR corps. I can’t tell you how many I saw DJ throw a deep ball and hit Slayton RIGHT IN HIS HANDS and he dropped it. One I remember in the endzone. This idea of DJ being scared to throw deep or won’t throw deep is simplistic. The scheme changed in 2022 to protect a QB from a leaky line. And Daboll realized he didn’t necessarily have the personnel for a vertical passing attack. Slayton, Hodgins and James don’t scream vertical, deep passes combined with a poor pass blocking line. In addition, DJ in 2023 was CLEARLY shell-shocked from a poorly- constructed OL that give DJ less than 2 seconds to do anything worthwhile after they lost Andrew Thomas. Nothing is ever Daniel Jones' fault. It's always the people around him letting him down. Well, don't worry, you're getting year 6 of shitty Jones play! What will the excuse for him be this time? Also, why didn't DeVito and Taylor have the same issues throwing down field if it's all because of the team and none of it becasue of Jones?

This has been addressed AD NAUSEAM… the OL Cutlets AND Taylor played with was NOT the same one DJ played with. Andrew Thomas AND JMS RETURNED to play with Cutlets and Taylor. And Barkley was OUT most of the games with DJ.

So let’s stick to the FACTS, what you and I feel about DJ are irrelevant. But don’t distort the FACTS to make poor arguments. And don’t forget the fact that the defensive lines and competition we faced early in the season wasn’t what Cutlets and Taylor faced.

The unintentional funniest thing on this thread is djm saying Peace out multiple times and yet he keeps returning.

In comment 16466663 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

That Nabers sound bite is worse than I remember.

The reason it's worse than you remember is because your recollection probably included the fact that the question to Nabers was preceded by the interviewer saying "we don't even know potentially who would be the quarterback for the Giants," so he responded in that context. Do you really think Nabers has an opinion about Daniel Jones? It's not like he's a Giants fan who has watched and studied their games. The fact that people point to this quote from Nabers as if it's meaningful shows just how disingenuous the Jones-bashers can be.

1. Dave Brown sucked
2. Danny Kannell sucked
3. Daniel Jones sucks
4. Malik Nabers thinks the Giants QB needs to be figured out - translation - NYG QB room sucks
5. Some think we need to go WR because trading draft picks for a new young QB will set us back years.


How did I do?

In comment 16466267 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

site has gone back and forth on Daniel Jones for years now. Those who like him will come up with something, those who don't like him will come up with something else. But beyond this, THE PLAYERS know. We saw the first hints of that with Giants saying Saquon should have been paid before Daniel. Now we have draft prospects bad-mouthing him in the media. I saw a pundit yesterday just matter-of-factly state the obvious... "Daniel doesn't throw the ball down the field." What was the biggest difference between Taylor/DeVito and Jones? We all saw it. They took shots down the field. With the same cast of characters. Then there is the whole injury thing, which may end this once and for all. The problem? If the attitude that Schmeelk, Cross, and Dottino have permeates that building, holy shit.

But even Schoen is straight up saying that it is near impossible to evaluate a QB who's on his back because the OL can't keep him upright. As far as Barkley is concerned, I don't think its an indictment on Jones to say Saquon should have been paid first. It's a testimony to how the team feels about Saquon. I'm hard pressed to think of any player on 28 of the 32 teams in the league that deserved to be paid more than Barkley. 26 bled for us. He was 100% the best player on this team. OF COURSE he should've got paid before DJ. But we didn't pay him and I understand the reasons, even if it was pretty uncerimonious in the way it all went down. And DeVito and Taylor both had Thomas and JMS back with Saquon in the backfield. Daniel had that for 5 minutes this season and even then it was in a torrential downpour. Look... I am firmly on board with moving on from DJ because 6 years is a enough time to come to terms with the fact that it's time to shake the tree. But not at the expense of multiple draft picks across multiple drafts. And not at the cost of spending the 1.06 on a QB that, for all intents and purposes will be a consolation prize at that pick. DJ is not this horrible QB. I am sure he'll be more than serviceable in 2024 as long as he's healthy.

some people actually said the words "the fan base mentality here is very much partly to blame for DJ's contract."

That's where I was coming from. That venom or thought process is all over the board in case you haven't noticed.

In comment 16466617 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

it doesn't matter what you and I ultimately think, but it damn sure does matter what the players think. Players who haven't even been drafted yet are dissing him, including a guy who we may draft.

It doesn’t matter ONE IOTA what Nabers or other players think, i.e. Thibs or opposing players etc. It doesn’t matter what you think or I think or what anyone on this board thinks either. Only thing that matters is what Shoen and Daboll thinks and we’ll find that out in a couple of weeks.

What Nabere thinks means dick.

multiple NFL players killed Eli Manning before February 2008.

Who cares.

In comment 16466781 ZoneXDOA said:

Quote:

In comment 16466267 Eric from BBI said: Quote: site has gone back and forth on Daniel Jones for years now. Those who like him will come up with something, those who don't like him will come up with something else. But beyond this, THE PLAYERS know. We saw the first hints of that with Giants saying Saquon should have been paid before Daniel. Now we have draft prospects bad-mouthing him in the media. I saw a pundit yesterday just matter-of-factly state the obvious... "Daniel doesn't throw the ball down the field." What was the biggest difference between Taylor/DeVito and Jones? We all saw it. They took shots down the field. With the same cast of characters. Then there is the whole injury thing, which may end this once and for all. The problem? If the attitude that Schmeelk, Cross, and Dottino have permeates that building, holy shit. But even Schoen is straight up saying that it is near impossible to evaluate a QB who's on his back because the OL can't keep him upright. As far as Barkley is concerned, I don't think its an indictment on Jones to say Saquon should have been paid first. It's a testimony to how the team feels about Saquon. I'm hard pressed to think of any player on 28 of the 32 teams in the league that deserved to be paid more than Barkley. 26 bled for us. He was 100% the best player on this team. OF COURSE he should've got paid before DJ. But we didn't pay him and I understand the reasons, even if it was pretty uncerimonious in the way it all went down. And DeVito and Taylor both had Thomas and JMS back with Saquon in the backfield. Daniel had that for 5 minutes this season and even then it was in a torrential downpour. Look... I am firmly on board with moving on from DJ because 6 years is a enough time to come to terms with the fact that it's time to shake the tree. But not at the expense of multiple draft picks across multiple drafts. And not at the cost of spending the 1.06 on a QB that, for all intents and purposes will be a consolation prize at that pick. DJ is not this horrible QB. I am sure he'll be more than serviceable in 2024 as long as he's healthy.

This is the new narrative of the Jones fans....."I'm okay with taking a QB, but none of these QB's and definitely not if it means we have to trade up!"

In comment 16466779 Rjanyg said:

Quote:

1. Dave Brown sucked 2. Danny Kannell sucked 3. Daniel Jones sucks 4. Malik Nabers thinks the Giants QB needs to be figured out - translation - NYG QB room sucks 5. Some think we need to go WR because trading draft picks for a new young QB will set us back years. How did I do?

Poorly. It's Josina Anderson who "thinks the Giants QB needs to be figured out - translation - NYG QB room sucks." And who gives a flying fuck what she thinks.
The actual interview--you make the call! - ( New Window )

In comment 16466775 Four Aces said:

Quote:

In comment 16466683 LW_Giants said: Quote: In comment 16466678 Four Aces said: Quote: In comment 16466287 mittenedman said: Quote: I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast. +1 It’s amazing ppl conveniently minimize playing QB is a function of EVERYTHING around a QB. And DJ has had the absolute worst around him… bottom-ranked OL and WR corps. I can’t tell you how many I saw DJ throw a deep ball and hit Slayton RIGHT IN HIS HANDS and he dropped it. One I remember in the endzone. This idea of DJ being scared to throw deep or won’t throw deep is simplistic. The scheme changed in 2022 to protect a QB from a leaky line. And Daboll realized he didn’t necessarily have the personnel for a vertical passing attack. Slayton, Hodgins and James don’t scream vertical, deep passes combined with a poor pass blocking line. In addition, DJ in 2023 was CLEARLY shell-shocked from a poorly- constructed OL that give DJ less than 2 seconds to do anything worthwhile after they lost Andrew Thomas. Nothing is ever Daniel Jones' fault. It's always the people around him letting him down. Well, don't worry, you're getting year 6 of shitty Jones play! What will the excuse for him be this time? Also, why didn't DeVito and Taylor have the same issues throwing down field if it's all because of the team and none of it becasue of Jones? This has been addressed AD NAUSEAM… the OL Cutlets AND Taylor played with was NOT the same one DJ played with. Andrew Thomas AND JMS RETURNED to play with Cutlets and Taylor. And Barkley was OUT most of the games with DJ. So let’s stick to the FACTS, what you and I feel about DJ are irrelevant. But don’t distort the FACTS to make poor arguments. And don’t forget the fact that the defensive lines and competition we faced early in the season wasn’t what Cutlets and Taylor faced.

Ok lets talk facts, JMS actually got worse as the season went on because he was playing through things, and you completely ignore the effect a QB has on line play. It's not a one way street. If the defense knows the QB only has one read and will not take chances down the field, they just pin their ears back on every snap. That's part of why the line got better, there was at least the threat of a deep throw when DeVito and Tyrod took over.

In comment 16466766 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 16466761 HardTruth said: Quote: Are we sure Jones is better? He sure didnt have Saquon Barkley leading the NFL in rushing after 9 weeks And going 7-3 22 TDs. Rushing skills matter.

Jones has 13 career rush TDs and Sam Darnold has 12 career rush TDs. And thats with those 7 you boast of in 2 year. Jones benefited from a scheme for a little while.

loyalty to Jones is mind-boggling.

As a Giants fan, I've never seen anything like it.

Just wait until this teams season is over in October, the team scores 17 pts ppg at best and people realize there is just Lock and a mid-round rookie project and its not a QB draft in 2025.

It’s entirely possible Nabers has an opinion on Jones. And if we draft him, I suspect he’ll reach out to his buddies in the NFL and I doubt the reviews will be glowing.

In comment 16466820 HardTruth said:

Quote:

Just wait until this teams season is over in October, the team scores 17 pts ppg at best and people realize there is just Lock and a mid-round rookie project and its not a QB draft in 2025.

Been banging this drum for awhile. This fall could get ugly real quick.

In comment 16466798 LW_Giants said:

Quote:

This is the new narrative of the Jones fans....."I'm okay with taking a QB, but none of these QB's and definitely not if it means we have to trade up!"

I would put good money on it that there are many posters, even without the influence of sodium panthenol, that think Jones is just as talented as any of these QB prospects. And at worst, he's QB2.

In comment 16466820 HardTruth said:

Quote:

Just wait until this teams season is over in October, the team scores 17 pts ppg at best and people realize there is just Lock and a mid-round rookie project and its not a QB draft in 2025.

I will say the "next year's QB class stinks" argument doesn't fly with me. Not always, but usually there is a QB or two who comes out of nowhere to make a class look better. Hell, Jayden Daniels wasn't supposed to be a first round guy.

No one had Burrow going 1st overall heading in 2020 in April 2019.

*first overall in 2020 in April 2019.

In comment 16466767 Four Aces said:

Quote:

In comment 16466687 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: In comment 16466678 Four Aces said: Quote: In comment 16466287 mittenedman said: Quote: I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast. +1 It’s amazing ppl conveniently minimize playing QB is a function of EVERYTHING around a QB. And DJ has had the absolute worst around him… bottom-ranked OL and WR corps. I can’t tell you how many I saw DJ throw a deep ball and hit Slayton RIGHT IN HIS HANDS and he dropped it. One I remember in the endzone. This idea of DJ being scared to throw deep or won’t throw deep is simplistic. The scheme changed in 2022 to protect a QB from a leaky line. And Daboll realized he didn’t necessarily have the personnel for a vertical passing attack. Slayton, Hodgins and James don’t scream vertical, deep passes combined with a poor pass blocking line. In addition, DJ in 2023 was CLEARLY shell-shocked from a poorly- constructed OL that give DJ less than 2 seconds to do anything worthwhile after they lost Andrew Thomas. Now explain the other 3 seasons. OLine, weapons (cnveniently leaving out Barkley in 2022 who was more important and better), shell shocked. What else? Temperature in the locker room not right? He's been the one constant over 5 seasons with a bad offense. Maybe he's the problem? Maybe its as simple as he's not a good QB? There’s been a lot of constants…. DJ, poor OL, subpar WRs and TEs. This offense doesn’t scare anyone.

He's been the one constant over 5 seasons. Different coaches and players. At some point you need to score points and produce touchdowns. He doesn't do it.

In comment 16466826 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

In comment 16466820 HardTruth said: Quote: Just wait until this teams season is over in October, the team scores 17 pts ppg at best and people realize there is just Lock and a mid-round rookie project and its not a QB draft in 2025. Been banging this drum for awhile. This fall could get ugly real quick.

I've been banging this drum for awhile. It's going to get really really dark. That's why I'm not sure Schoen/Daboll survive it if Jones sucks (or gets injured and kicks in his guarantee) and the team wins 6 games or less again.

In comment 16466823 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

It’s entirely possible Nabers has an opinion on Jones. And if we draft him, I suspect he’ll reach out to his buddies in the NFL and I doubt the reviews will be glowing.

Did you watch the video I linked?

In comment 16466829 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16466820 HardTruth said: Quote: Just wait until this teams season is over in October, the team scores 17 pts ppg at best and people realize there is just Lock and a mid-round rookie project and its not a QB draft in 2025. I will say the "next year's QB class stinks" argument doesn't fly with me. Not always, but usually there is a QB or two who comes out of nowhere to make a class look better. Hell, Jayden Daniels wasn't supposed to be a first round guy.

This is exactly right.

In comment 16466840 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16466823 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: It’s entirely possible Nabers has an opinion on Jones. And if we draft him, I suspect he’ll reach out to his buddies in the NFL and I doubt the reviews will be glowing. Did you watch the video I linked?

Yes. And how does that refute what I said?

In comment 16466752 djm said:

Quote:

They relish the chance to rub their noses in it for cautiously defending the NYG QB.

First of all, the names I listed are NOT cautious in their defense. Zealous is a more apt description.

Secondly, to whatever degree you do believe that their defense of DJ is cautious in tone, maybe that's because he mostly sucks and there isn't an authentic or genuine defense to be made.

If someone at your job consistently underperformed for five years, and also was often on FMLA leave during that time, how long do you think they'd get away with your boss laying the blame for the underperforming employee entirely at the feet of his colleagues and never him?

What do you think a defense of that absentee underachiever would look like?

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

The pundits reacted that way because the clip was purposely taken out of context to make it look like Nabers was "bad-mouthing" Jones when all he was doing was responding to how Josina Anderson phrased the question. But it speaks to how the media can manipulate and sensationalize in order to get the clicks they want and Daniel Jones is an easy target. And you should admit that you got suckered because you wanted to believe what they were selling so you didn't even bother to hear the question he was responding to.

I would be interested in seeing the first down stat against Arizona and even that one first versus second half. Summer Camp Daboll didn't help matters either.

SF, Sea and Miami games were a historic level of poor RB production. Teams had little concern with the run game (for good reason). Tynes said the SF game was the worst RB rushing day in 30 years. Miami and Sea were not much better.

I wouldn't expect much from just about every QB in those games with the state of the OL and skill group.

Can we break it down in the most granular fashion to the point where any attempt to assemble a valid sample size is meaningless?

Thanks in advance.

The Giants are in position to draft a QB high again next April, Brian Daboll won't be around to put his voice in.

In comment 16466844 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

In comment 16466840 Milton said: Quote: In comment 16466823 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: It’s entirely possible Nabers has an opinion on Jones. And if we draft him, I suspect he’ll reach out to his buddies in the NFL and I doubt the reviews will be glowing. Did you watch the video I linked? Yes. And how does that refute what I said?

It has nothing to do with what you said because what you said had nothing to do with what I said. Why should you or I give a flying fuck what his buddies in the NFL have to say about Jones after Nabers is drafted by the Giants? Nabers will have plenty of time to form his own opinion of Jones.

The point is: you couldn't refute what I said, but instead of saying, "yeah, that was really uncool of them to pull his comment out of context to make it look like he was being critical of Jones," you directed a pointless and irrelevant comment my way.

In comment 16466861 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

Can we break it down in the most granular fashion to the point where any attempt to assemble a valid sample size is meaningless? Thanks in advance.

Perhaps. But it is in line with all his other stats in 2023, which are all terrible and near bottom of the league.

In comment 16466859 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

I would be interested in seeing the first down stat against Arizona and even that one first versus second half. Summer Camp Daboll didn't help matters either. SF, Sea and Miami games were a historic level of poor RB production. Teams had little concern with the run game (for good reason). Tynes said the SF game was the worst RB rushing day in 30 years. Miami and Sea were not much better. I wouldn't expect much from just about every QB in those games with the state of the OL and skill group.

Ah. The ole “everybody else’s fault” routine. It never gets old. Daniel Jones has had the worst luck of any QB in the history of the league. Poor guy

... There's really not much to discuss.
Those numbers are freakishly bad.

At this point I don't care why Don't know why anybody else does.

More than 10 backup quarterbacks were better than he was.

Time to move on.

did not give Jones a good excuse for sucking in five of six games probably also believe that in the Ukrainian War the Ukrainians have had 31,000 killed and the Russians 331,000.

Jones was sacked 44 times in 22 and 45 in 20. He won a playoff game in 2022 despite lousy players around him. You can't minimize that.

His biggest question mark after his health is his ability to stand in the pocket and get a good throw off when he's about to be hit by the rush. He didn't look good at that last year.

But Eli was sacked over 39 times only once, 47 in 2018. That was Barkley's rookie season. Beckham played only 12 games but put up over 1000 yards. And the team record was 5-11. Pass protection still matters.

Jones deserves the right to play himself out of starting, if his health is even good enough. No regrets if he can't do it next season.

Okay. Taken out of context. I get that.

out of starting.

Several times.

Here are the slated starting QBs (per Ourlads) ranked by 1st down conversion % for all downs (including pass/rush) for years 2019 to 2023. (Italicized are one standard deviation from the mean.)

rank Player team conv perc
1 Brock Purdy 41.2%
2 Patrick Mahomes 38.6%
3 C.J. Stroud 38.1%
4 Dak Prescott 37.7%
5 Josh Allen 37.3%
6 Matthew Stafford 37.3%
7 Tua Tagovailoa 37.0%
8 Deshaun Watson 37.0%
9 Kirk Cousins 36.8%
10 Lamar Jackson 36.6%
11 Marcus Mariota 36.3%
12 Aaron Rodgers 36.1%
13 Joe Burrow 36.1%
14 Jalen Hurts 35.9%
15 Anthony Richardson 35.8%
16 Tyson Bagent 35.5%
17 Jordan Love 35.4%
18 Justin Herbert 35.2%
19 Jared Goff 35.1%
20 Geno Smith 34.7%
21 Derek Carr 34.6%
22 Jacoby Brissett 34.4%
23 Russell Wilson 34.1%
24 Kyler Murray 33.7%
25 Baker Mayfield 33.7%
26 Daniel Jones nyg 33.1%
27 Jarrett Stidham den 32.8%
28 Trevor Lawrence jax 32.4%
29 Sam Darnold min 32.2%
30 Aidan O'Connell lvr 31.7%
31 Will Levis ten 31.4%
32 Bryce Young car 26.7%
avg 35.1%
std 2.7%
mean 35.0%

He is not the worst and he is not an outlier (per 1 std dev). The Giants should draft a QB as they should have been doing over the years. I prefer a WR in round 1 and then a QB later. No trade ups for a QB. Over the last 10 years not a single team that had a non-winning record the prior season that traded up for a QB in the first 3 rounds had success with that QB. Let the draft come to you.

The same stat

In comment 16466829 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

I will say the "next year's QB class stinks" argument doesn't fly with me. Not always, but usually there is a QB or two who comes out of nowhere to make a class look better. Hell, Jayden Daniels wasn't supposed to be a first round guy.

Earlier this week, I believe Sy said he thought there a few QBs in the 2025 class he previewed to be in 80-85 range...I believe.

The potential huge prize is Jalen Milroe. If he can further fine tune his passing, he's got high level dual threat tools.

In comment 16466888 gogiants said:

Quote:

Here are the slated starting QBs (per Ourlads) ranked by 1st down conversion % for all downs (including pass/rush) for years 2019 to 2023. (Italicized are one standard deviation from the mean.) rank Player team conv perc 1 Brock Purdy 41.2% 2 Patrick Mahomes 38.6% 3 C.J. Stroud 38.1% 4 Dak Prescott 37.7% 5 Josh Allen 37.3% 6 Matthew Stafford 37.3% 7 Tua Tagovailoa 37.0% 8 Deshaun Watson 37.0% 9 Kirk Cousins 36.8% 10 Lamar Jackson 36.6% 11 Marcus Mariota 36.3% 12 Aaron Rodgers 36.1% 13 Joe Burrow 36.1% 14 Jalen Hurts 35.9% 15 Anthony Richardson 35.8% 16 Tyson Bagent 35.5% 17 Jordan Love 35.4% 18 Justin Herbert 35.2% 19 Jared Goff 35.1% 20 Geno Smith 34.7% 21 Derek Carr 34.6% 22 Jacoby Brissett 34.4% 23 Russell Wilson 34.1% 24 Kyler Murray 33.7% 25 Baker Mayfield 33.7% 26 Daniel Jones nyg 33.1% 27 Jarrett Stidham den 32.8% 28 Trevor Lawrence jax 32.4% 29 Sam Darnold min 32.2% 30 Aidan O'Connell lvr 31.7% 31 Will Levis ten 31.4% 32 Bryce Young car 26.7% avg 35.1% std 2.7% mean 35.0% He is not the worst and he is not an outlier (per 1 std dev). The Giants should draft a QB as they should have been doing over the years. I prefer a WR in round 1 and then a QB later. No trade ups for a QB. Over the last 10 years not a single team that had a non-winning record the prior season that traded up for a QB in the first 3 rounds had success with that QB. Let the draft come to you.

This is converting a new first down, regardless of the down currently being played or the play being run (as you note, it's agnostic to run/pass).

That's a fundamentally different stat than having a successful passing play on first down (contextualized here by the source itself as the easiest down to successfully pass) specifically.

What you're presenting is also interesting and not at all favorable for DJ, but it's just a different stat entirely.

In comment 16466903 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 16466888 gogiants said: Quote: Here are the slated starting QBs (per Ourlads) ranked by 1st down conversion % for all downs (including pass/rush) for years 2019 to 2023. (Italicized are one standard deviation from the mean.) rank Player team conv perc 1 Brock Purdy 41.2% 2 Patrick Mahomes 38.6% 3 C.J. Stroud 38.1% 4 Dak Prescott 37.7% 5 Josh Allen 37.3% 6 Matthew Stafford 37.3% 7 Tua Tagovailoa 37.0% 8 Deshaun Watson 37.0% 9 Kirk Cousins 36.8% 10 Lamar Jackson 36.6% 11 Marcus Mariota 36.3% 12 Aaron Rodgers 36.1% 13 Joe Burrow 36.1% 14 Jalen Hurts 35.9% 15 Anthony Richardson 35.8% 16 Tyson Bagent 35.5% 17 Jordan Love 35.4% 18 Justin Herbert 35.2% 19 Jared Goff 35.1% 20 Geno Smith 34.7% 21 Derek Carr 34.6% 22 Jacoby Brissett 34.4% 23 Russell Wilson 34.1% 24 Kyler Murray 33.7% 25 Baker Mayfield 33.7% 26 Daniel Jones nyg 33.1% 27 Jarrett Stidham den 32.8% 28 Trevor Lawrence jax 32.4% 29 Sam Darnold min 32.2% 30 Aidan O'Connell lvr 31.7% 31 Will Levis ten 31.4% 32 Bryce Young car 26.7% avg 35.1% std 2.7% mean 35.0% He is not the worst and he is not an outlier (per 1 std dev). The Giants should draft a QB as they should have been doing over the years. I prefer a WR in round 1 and then a QB later. No trade ups for a QB. Over the last 10 years not a single team that had a non-winning record the prior season that traded up for a QB in the first 3 rounds had success with that QB. Let the draft come to you. This is converting a new first down, regardless of the down currently being played or the play being run (as you note, it's agnostic to run/pass). That's a fundamentally different stat than having a successful passing play on first down (contextualized here by the source itself as the easiest down to successfully pass) specifically. What you're presenting is also interesting and not at all favorable for DJ, but it's just a different stat entirely.

What I find most interesting about this stat has less to do with the mean or the std dev and more to do with a very basic, common sense benchmark: any QB whose percentage here is less than 33.33...% is more likely on any given series to go three-and-out than he is to gain a first down.

And Daniel Jones trots out as the Giants starting QB throwing to Nabors, are you Jones haters going to be rooting for the Giants to lose?

Even if we draft a QB he’s probably your day 1 starter.

In comment 16466881 Reese's Pieces said:

Quote:

did not give Jones a good excuse for sucking in five of six games probably also believe that in the Ukrainian War the Ukrainians have had 31,000 killed and the Russians 331,000. Jones was sacked 44 times in 22 and 45 in 20. He won a playoff game in 2022 despite lousy players around him. You can't minimize that. His biggest question mark after his health is his ability to stand in the pocket and get a good throw off when he's about to be hit by the rush. He didn't look good at that last year. But Eli was sacked over 39 times only once, 47 in 2018. That was Barkley's rookie season. Beckham played only 12 games but put up over 1000 yards. And the team record was 5-11. Pass protection still matters. Jones deserves the right to play himself out of starting, if his health is even good enough. No regrets if he can't do it next season.

“Deserves the right to play himself out of starting”. Can’t make this shit up. Eric is right, the loyalty to Jones among some in this fan base is insane

In comment 16466776 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

The unintentional funniest thing on this thread is djm saying Peace out multiple times and yet he keeps returning.

And that he is just posting like a psycho because “the other side” (despite everyone being on the same side) is always posting like psychos so he is just holding up a mirror, I guess?

In comment 16466915 LW_Giants said:

Quote:

In comment 16466881 Reese's Pieces said: Quote: did not give Jones a good excuse for sucking in five of six games probably also believe that in the Ukrainian War the Ukrainians have had 31,000 killed and the Russians 331,000. Jones was sacked 44 times in 22 and 45 in 20. He won a playoff game in 2022 despite lousy players around him. You can't minimize that. His biggest question mark after his health is his ability to stand in the pocket and get a good throw off when he's about to be hit by the rush. He didn't look good at that last year. But Eli was sacked over 39 times only once, 47 in 2018. That was Barkley's rookie season. Beckham played only 12 games but put up over 1000 yards. And the team record was 5-11. Pass protection still matters. Jones deserves the right to play himself out of starting, if his health is even good enough. No regrets if he can't do it next season. “Deserves the right to play himself out of starting”. Can’t make this shit up. Eric is right, the loyalty to Jones among some in this fan base is insane

It is insane. Jones *deserves* nothing. He already got $100M. And after signing that contract he went out and played like the 32nd best QB in the league. He was outplayed by an undrafted rookie free agent who lives with his parents. Some people are just afraid of change.

In comment 16466912 Rudy5757 said:

Quote:

And Daniel Jones trots out as the Giants starting QB throwing to Nabors, are you Jones haters going to be rooting for the Giants to lose? Even if we draft a QB he’s probably your day 1 starter.

Nobody hates Daniel Jones, he’s just not good. And the Giants don’t need people to root for them to lose, they’ve had the worst record in the NFC with Jones at the helm, they lose plenty on their own

Wait, what?

Jones 'deserves the right'...? To parrot what Eric said earlier on this thread & something I've articulated before too...I have never-NEVER!-seen so devotion to a mediocre @ best-AT BEST-Giant. It is a fucking cult. I don't know how else to put it.

In comment 16466923 Darwinian said:

Quote:

In comment 16466915 LW_Giants said: Quote: In comment 16466881 Reese's Pieces said: Quote: did not give Jones a good excuse for sucking in five of six games probably also believe that in the Ukrainian War the Ukrainians have had 31,000 killed and the Russians 331,000. Jones was sacked 44 times in 22 and 45 in 20. He won a playoff game in 2022 despite lousy players around him. You can't minimize that. His biggest question mark after his health is his ability to stand in the pocket and get a good throw off when he's about to be hit by the rush. He didn't look good at that last year. But Eli was sacked over 39 times only once, 47 in 2018. That was Barkley's rookie season. Beckham played only 12 games but put up over 1000 yards. And the team record was 5-11. Pass protection still matters. Jones deserves the right to play himself out of starting, if his health is even good enough. No regrets if he can't do it next season. “Deserves the right to play himself out of starting”. Can’t make this shit up. Eric is right, the loyalty to Jones among some in this fan base is insane It is insane. Jones *deserves* nothing. He already got $100M. And after signing that contract he went out and played like the 32nd best QB in the league. He was outplayed by an undrafted rookie free agent who lives with his parents. Some people are just afraid of change.

Aside: i saw someone wearing a Tommy Cutlets hoodie last night and it gave me a good chuckle

In comment 16466829 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16466820 HardTruth said: Quote: Just wait until this teams season is over in October, the team scores 17 pts ppg at best and people realize there is just Lock and a mid-round rookie project and its not a QB draft in 2025. I will say the "next year's QB class stinks" argument doesn't fly with me. Not always, but usually there is a QB or two who comes out of nowhere to make a class look better. Hell, Jayden Daniels wasn't supposed to be a first round guy.

And if they are picking 6th in a 3QB draft again?

Will everyone who says “you can’t force the pick” be ok not forcing the pick again in 2025 and seeing what 2026 has to offer? 2027?

At some point you need to try to solve a problem instead of waiting for the solution to find you.

You bring up Daniel Jones to fans of other teams & they laugh. I was at a bar a couple of weeks back & one of my buddies coworker showed up & eventually-being men of course-we got around to talking sports & inevitably football & I said I was a Giants fan & he smirked & said, 'How 'bout Danny Dimes!' in jest. & I was like, 'Yeah. He sucks.'

.

In comment 16466927 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

In comment 16466829 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 16466820 HardTruth said: Quote: Just wait until this teams season is over in October, the team scores 17 pts ppg at best and people realize there is just Lock and a mid-round rookie project and its not a QB draft in 2025. I will say the "next year's QB class stinks" argument doesn't fly with me. Not always, but usually there is a QB or two who comes out of nowhere to make a class look better. Hell, Jayden Daniels wasn't supposed to be a first round guy. And if they are picking 6th in a 3QB draft again? Will everyone who says “you can’t force the pick” be ok not forcing the pick again in 2025 and seeing what 2026 has to offer? 2027? At some point you need to try to solve a problem instead of waiting for the solution to find you.

+ Infinity

In comment 16466932 Sean said:

Quote:

.

Wife-who hates this website with every fiber of her being, Haha-asked me if Jones is polarizing on BBI. I responded, 'Not really. Most everyone wants to move on, but there are some Japanese like holdouts post WWII who will be fighting on Jones' behalf until the mid 2030s.'

Not one person on this thread would be defending him. He would be just another Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen that everyone would agree sucks. But he is a Giant so there are 1,000 reasons why his stats are horrible and the team loses all the time, but none of those have anything to do with his ability to play the position.

to have earned some more time to prove himself to be a deserving starter. In last season's abortion he did not get a fair chance. He did have that impressive 2nd half rally against Arizona. He also looked shaky numerous times, but the low quality of the supporting cast earns him another shot.

And yes, men of integrity realize that the Giants took this guy's life in their hands when he was drafted by them, and he deserves a fair chance, following what he did in '22, to show if he can follow up and build before they destroy his life's dream. Corny?

Personally, I think the Giants will find at least one and maybe two of the top four (if McCarthy is now included on the top tier.) available at #6. Everyone is focused in on the three (or four) quarterbacks and the three receivers.

Not everyone thinks a WR is a good value pick so early in the draft, especially if they don't have the quarterback. Some GM's are not saying anything that might hurt their position, but they are coveting having their pick of all the offensive linemen and of all the defensive players.

In comment 16466942 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

Not one person on this thread would be defending him. He would be just another Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen that everyone would agree sucks. But he is a Giant so there are 1,000 reasons why his stats are horrible and the team loses all the time, but none of those have anything to do with his ability to play the position.

If Jones was drafted by any of the other 31 teams in 2019 he's already on his 2nd or 3rd team by now.

In comment 16466946 Reese's Pieces said:

Quote:

to have earned some more time to prove himself to be a deserving starter. In last season's abortion he did not get a fair chance. He did have that impressive 2nd half rally against Arizona. He also looked shaky numerous times, but the low quality of the supporting cast earns him another shot. And yes, men of integrity realize that the Giants took this guy's life in their hands when he was drafted by them, and he deserves a fair chance, following what he did in '22, to show if he can follow up and build before they destroy his life's dream. Corny? Personally, I think the Giants will find at least one and maybe two of the top four (if McCarthy is now included on the top tier.) available at #6. Everyone is focused in on the three (or four) quarterbacks and the three receivers. Not everyone thinks a WR is a good value pick so early in the draft, especially if they don't have the quarterback. Some GM's are not saying anything that might hurt their position, but they are coveting having their pick of all the offensive linemen and of all the defensive players.

'He did not get a fair chance.'

'He deserves a fair chance.'

Oh. My. God.

I used to snicker @ the notion that there were BBIers who would choose to go 5-12 with Jones instead of 12-5 with someone else. But I think I was wrong. I think there are seriously some BBIers who would rather lose with Jones then win with someone else.

In comment 16466925 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

Wait, what? Jones 'deserves the right'...? To parrot what Eric said earlier on this thread & something I've articulated before too...I have never-NEVER!-seen so devotion to a mediocre @ best-AT BEST-Giant. It is a fucking cult. I don't know how else to put it.

Deserves Got Nothing To Do With It! - ( New Window )

*than win with someone else.

In comment 16466912 Rudy5757 said:

Quote:

And Daniel Jones trots out as the Giants starting QB throwing to Nabors, are you Jones haters going to be rooting for the Giants to lose? Even if we draft a QB he’s probably your day 1 starter.

Well, that assumes Jones stays on or ahead schedule with his rehab.

And no. But when he does, virtually no one will be surprised.

Deserve's got nothing to do with it. I believe it's in the best interest of a QB's development to spend his rookie year (or the bulk of it) on the bench. Daniel Jones (or Drew Lock, if Jones's injuries are more serious than's been made public) should start the season. And we can take it from there. We can assume whatever we want will happen, but the reality is our assumptions won't matter; what will matter is what happens on the field. If Jones plays well and the Giants are winning, they will ride the hot hand. If he sucks, they have his replacement right there on the bench. It's as simple as that.

Which is why I don't understand why so many people feel the need to constantly post how much they think he sucks. You ran out of new ways to say it months ago, so you just keep marching out the same old crap anytime you can squeeze his name into a thread (whether the thread had anything to do with him or not). And if there's some knucklehead in the media who posts something negative about him you're in a rush to be the first to post that link to BBI. It's just so childish.

I didn't start out as a Jones apologist and I don't consider myself one, but I sure am rooting for him like never before.

In comment 16466829 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16466820 HardTruth said: Quote: Just wait until this teams season is over in October, the team scores 17 pts ppg at best and people realize there is just Lock and a mid-round rookie project and its not a QB draft in 2025. I will say the "next year's QB class stinks" argument doesn't fly with me. Not always, but usually there is a QB or two who comes out of nowhere to make a class look better. Hell, Jayden Daniels wasn't supposed to be a first round guy.

Maybe there is a guy. And where do you think he will be drafted?

We know a year out this isn’t projected to be a great QB class next year. We can hope for that to change and what record we we need to draft one?

We have been a bottom 3 team in the NFL for a decade and we have only drafted above 4 once so exactly how we going to get this hypothetical emerging QB?

And what are the odds you can draft one with a grade like McCarthy 84 or Maye at 83?

But what if it’s 2022 and 2023? And No QBs do emerge?

'Rooting for him like never before.'

I just can't help but laugh. Dude's going into his sixth season & people are doubling down on him because some BBIers have the audacity to say that he isn't that good & maybe we should upgrade @ QB.

But it isn't a cult....

I have brought that up repeatedly - target audience DJFC - about Jones.

If Jones was a free agent this offseason and we needed a QB, and Jones's performance was exactly the same after five years, who would be beating the table to sign him?

Anybody?

In comment 16466946 Reese's Pieces said:

Quote:

to have earned some more time to prove himself to be a deserving starter. In last season's abortion he did not get a fair chance. He did have that impressive 2nd half rally against Arizona. He also looked shaky numerous times, but the low quality of the supporting cast earns him another shot. And yes, men of integrity realize that the Giants took this guy's life in their hands when he was drafted by them, and he deserves a fair chance, following what he did in '22, to show if he can follow up and build before they destroy his life's dream. Corny? Personally, I think the Giants will find at least one and maybe two of the top four (if McCarthy is now included on the top tier.) available at #6. Everyone is focused in on the three (or four) quarterbacks and the three receivers. Not everyone thinks a WR is a good value pick so early in the draft, especially if they don't have the quarterback. Some GM's are not saying anything that might hurt their position, but they are coveting having their pick of all the offensive linemen and of all the defensive players.

I'm sorry but this is psychotic. It's a football team, they are supposed to be in the business of winning, this isn't a charity. By all accounts Jones is a good dude and I wish him well, but I could give a shit about his "life's dream." He's making lie $40m a year, something tells me he'll get over the Giants moving on.

If the Internet was around in 1969 for example & there was a Rolling Stones version of BBI...

'I'm telling you. Keith Richards is going to get clean. He deserves our faith. He won't be in the news ever again for having or doing drugs.'

That's the DJFC equivalent.

In comment 16466956 Milton said:

Quote:

Deserve's got nothing to do with it. I believe it's in the best interest of a QB's development to spend his rookie year (or the bulk of it) on the bench. Daniel Jones (or Drew Lock, if Jones's injuries are more serious than's been made public) should start the season. And we can take it from there. We can assume whatever we want will happen, but the reality is our assumptions won't matter; what will matter is what happens on the field. If Jones plays well and the Giants are winning, they will ride the hot hand. If he sucks, they have his replacement right there on the bench. It's as simple as that. Which is why I don't understand why so many people feel the need to constantly post how much they think he sucks. You ran out of new ways to say it months ago, so you just keep marching out the same old crap anytime you can squeeze his name into a thread (whether the thread had anything to do with him or not). And if there's some knucklehead in the media who posts something negative about him you're in a rush to be the first to post that link to BBI. It's just so childish. I didn't start out as a Jones apologist and I don't consider myself one, but I sure am rooting for him like never before.

Why throw away games?

Because some BBIers would rather lose with Jones than win with another QB.

In comment 16466952 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

I used to snicker @ the notion that there were BBIers who would choose to go 5-12 with Jones instead of 12-5 with someone else. But I think I was wrong. I think there are seriously some BBIers who would rather lose with Jones then win with someone else.

It's funny because I see it just the opposite way: there are those on BBI who would rather lose with anyone but Jones than win with Jones. And if it's Jones at QB, they will be rooting for him to play poorly. They would rather lose with Jones than win with him.

No one is saying Jones is great or even good. They are mearly stating that Jones had no chance with what the Giants were rolling out to begin last season. It was a f'ing joke.

The Giants will move on from Jones and I wish the guy some success with a non disfunctional team. The Giants will find another QB. It does not need to be in the draft this year if they don't care for what is available to them. There are other ways to skin the cat.

In comment 16466997 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16466952 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I used to snicker @ the notion that there were BBIers who would choose to go 5-12 with Jones instead of 12-5 with someone else. But I think I was wrong. I think there are seriously some BBIers who would rather lose with Jones then win with someone else. It's funny because I see it just the opposite way: there are those on BBI who would rather lose with anyone but Jones than win with Jones. And if it's Jones at QB, they will be rooting for him to play poorly. They would rather lose with Jones than win with him.

Milton, this is just not fair. I rooted harder than anyone for Jones at the start of last year. I was even in the small minority that thought the deal they gave him wasn't so bad and he had earned it. I have never rooted for him to lose or do poorly. But this isn't a rookie or second year QB, he's going into his 6th year and he is just not good enough.

In comment 16466997 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16466952 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I used to snicker @ the notion that there were BBIers who would choose to go 5-12 with Jones instead of 12-5 with someone else. But I think I was wrong. I think there are seriously some BBIers who would rather lose with Jones then win with someone else. It's funny because I see it just the opposite way: there are those on BBI who would rather lose with anyone but Jones than win with Jones. And if it's Jones at QB, they will be rooting for him to play poorly. They would rather lose with Jones than win with him.

OMFG! ARE YOU SERIOUS? I JUST WANT TO FUCKING WIN. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT IF THE QB IS DEVITO, JONES, LOCK, OR WHOEVER.

No one hate Jones personally. The vast majority of us just recognize he isn't that good of a QB.

In comment 16466998 AnnapolisMike said:

Quote:

No one is saying Jones is great or even good. They are mearly stating that Jones had no chance with what the Giants were rolling out to begin last season. It was a f'ing joke. The Giants will move on from Jones and I wish the guy some success with a non disfunctional team. The Giants will find another QB. It does not need to be in the draft this year if they don't care for what is available to them. There are other ways to skin the cat.

I love this logic, as if Jones was a rookie in '23. DUDE IS GOING INTO HIS SIXTH SEASON FFS!

The excuses for Jones..my God. I have never seen it before with any Giant. Excuse after excuse after excuse after excuse.

They have one of the worst winning percentages in professional sports the last decade. They’re already losing, and Jones is one reason for it. If they try someone else and keep losing, what’s the difference?

Any other team he wouldn't have made it to year 4. Save me all the BS feeling sorry for him. He's been fortunate.

As an aside, I love these posters who are like, 'I don't think Jones is the answer, but...'& then make every excuse under the sun for him.

No wonder we're a laughingstock.

In comment 16466997 Milton said:

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In comment 16466952 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I used to snicker @ the notion that there were BBIers who would choose to go 5-12 with Jones instead of 12-5 with someone else. But I think I was wrong. I think there are seriously some BBIers who would rather lose with Jones then win with someone else. It's funny because I see it just the opposite way: there are those on BBI who would rather lose with anyone but Jones than win with Jones. And if it's Jones at QB, they will be rooting for him to play poorly. They would rather lose with Jones than win with him.

Humor me.

How many more years of the Jones Experience should we endure? A sixth season? Seventh? Longer?

I have no problem saying it - I'm sick of watching Jones attempt to play QB. It's boring. It's predictable. It's just unwatchable.

I can't wait until he's off the team.

Unfortunately, I fear Schoen thinks more like you than me.

In comment 16467017 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

As an aside, I love these posters who are like, 'I don't think Jones is the answer, but...'& then make every excuse under the sun for him. No wonder we're a laughingstock.

But then the same people point out any time Herbert has a bad game

It’s not even like this guy flashes brilliance and then is bad to inconsistent. He is simply consistently ineffective. He hasn’t passed for 3 tds in 4 seasons. That is hard to accomplish in today’s NFL.

I have no idea what there is left to see in this guy. The excuses he gets and the belief in him is unlike anything I’ve seen in sports.

In comment 16467036 TyreeHelmet said:

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It’s not even like this guy flashes brilliance and then is bad to inconsistent. He is simply consistently ineffective. He hasn’t passed for 3 tds in 4 seasons. That is hard to accomplish in today’s NFL. I have no idea what there is left to see in this guy. The excuses he gets and the belief in him is unlike anything I’ve seen in sports.

For comparison there were 23 4+ td games in 2023 and 19 in 2022. Jordan Love had more 3+ td games in 2023 (5) than Jones has in his career (3). Jones production has been pathetic.

In comment 16466998 AnnapolisMike said:

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No one is saying Jones is great or even good.

But they're quick to jump to defend him against criticism.

The Giants as a team have sucked. So has Jones. It's not an either/or thing

In comment 16467026 bw in dc said:

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Humor me. How many more years of the Jones Experience should we endure? A sixth season? Seventh? Longer?

This is how I see it: Jones is a flawed QB but he has his strengths and an offense can be built in which his weaknesses aren't an issue. And I think this is why they gave him the contract that they did. But it was after his one fully healthy season. The injuries he suffered in 2023 have forced them to recalibrate at the QB position such that if the opportunity were to present itself to land a franchise-quality QB worthy of the 6th overall pick (or thereabouts), they have to do it.

As for how long they should stick with Jones going forward, that depends on a variety of factors, but for the most part depends on how well he plays and if the team is winning and also to some extent how well Lock and the rookie (if there is one) have looked in camp and practices. Have either impressed Daboll to the point where they've won his confidence? Ultimately it'll be about which QB on the roster gives the Giants the best chance of winning. I trust Daboll to make that judgment and I trust that the decision will be solely his to make. He has too much ego and too much machismo to let that decision be decided for him. I can see
Schoen playing the diplomat, but not Daboll.

In comment 16466971 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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If the Internet was around in 1969 for example & there was a Rolling Stones version of BBI... 'I'm telling you. Keith Richards is going to get clean. He deserves our faith. He won't be in the news ever again for having or doing drugs.' That's the DJFC equivalent.

Keith Richards is gonna outlive all of us!

Jones would have been cut after 2021

No matter how well he plays now he is one neck injury away from career ending.

Giants need a LT solution and Jones is not that guy.

In comment 16467005 LW_Giants said:

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It's funny because I see it just the opposite way: there are those on BBI who would rather lose with anyone but Jones than win with Jones. And if it's Jones at QB, they will be rooting for him to play poorly. They would rather lose with Jones than win with him. Milton, this is just not fair. I rooted harder than anyone for Jones at the start of last year. I was even in the small minority that thought the deal they gave him wasn't so bad and he had earned it. I have never rooted for him to lose or do poorly. But this isn't a rookie or second year QB, he's going into his 6th year and he is just not good enough.

I wasn't saying it was the case for everyone in the anti-Jones crowd and it's more about this year and especially this offseason that some people have dug in so deep with their position on him. I think it's just because we're all so restless for the draft already and we keep coming to BBI hoping for some new tidbit to chew on, but there's nothing new to be found, so our restlessness spills out on whoever and whatever.

Btw I was surprised by the contract they gave him. I thought tagging him was the way to go.

Bad karma continues to resonate after he squandered the nyg’s first pick on that pitiful Jones decision. It’s now time, six years later to have the exorcism that NEEDS to happen, no matter who else is the qb….draft Joe Alt and become once and for all a pro offense, full stop.

1st 6 years in the league. They weren’t great. His 7th year the Giants won the Super Bowl and Phil actually had a pretty bad season as well. He threw for 21 TDs and 22 INTs with a 55% completion. Different era but those numbers are still terrible. That team went from one of the worst to one of the best.

You need multiple good players to be successful on offense. No QB is ever successful without a star at WR or TE. None.

So regardless if we draft a QB, that QB still needs a stud WR or TE. Where are you getting that guy?

In comment 16467156 Rudy5757 said:

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1st 6 years in the league. They weren’t great. His 7th year the Giants won the Super Bowl and Phil actually had a pretty bad season as well. He threw for 21 TDs and 22 INTs with a 55% completion. Different era but those numbers are still terrible. That team went from one of the worst to one of the best. You need multiple good players to be successful on offense. No QB is ever successful without a star at WR or TE. None. So regardless if we draft a QB, that QB still needs a stud WR or TE. Where are you getting that guy?

You are completely misrepresenting Phil Simms' standing as a QB. he was one of the better QBs in the league and he had solid stats to back it up. Phill Simms was never as bad with respect to the league as Daniel Jones was in 2023.

In the season you are saying Simms was bad, he was 8th in yards, 7th in TDs, 9th in TD%, 9th in Y/A. His Y/A in 1986 was 7.5. Daniel Jones hasn't sniffed that mark in his 5 years, in this pass happy era. Jones is a bad passing QB. It's not just his surroundings. In fact maybe Slayton is a much better player with a better QB. In fact, I'm sure of it. How much more of this robotic, checkdown charlie do you really want to watch? What, you won't be content until the Giants are a 2 win team?

In comment 16466946 Reese's Pieces said:

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to have earned some more time to prove himself to be a deserving starter. In last season's abortion he did not get a fair chance. He did have that impressive 2nd half rally against Arizona. He also looked shaky numerous times, but the low quality of the supporting cast earns him another shot. And yes, men of integrity realize that the Giants took this guy's life in their hands when he was drafted by them, and he deserves a fair chance, following what he did in '22, to show if he can follow up and build before they destroy his life's dream. Corny? Personally, I think the Giants will find at least one and maybe two of the top four (if McCarthy is now included on the top tier.) available at #6. Everyone is focused in on the three (or four) quarterbacks and the three receivers. Not everyone thinks a WR is a good value pick so early in the draft, especially if they don't have the quarterback. Some GM's are not saying anything that might hurt their position, but they are coveting having their pick of all the offensive linemen and of all the defensive players.

"Men of integrity" lol. You think because you irrationally defend Daniel Jones, that makes you a man of integrity? I really hope this is a troll.

In comment 16466992 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Because some BBIers would rather lose with Jones than win with another QB.

It's going to be even more fun* when we finally move on, the team gets better, and people claim Jones would have done just as well if given the chance.

*By fun I mean profoundly sad and dumb.

If you have to reach back 40 years to try to find a comparison (one which isn’t even favorable for Jones anyway), it’s time to move on.

In comment 16467170 Mike from SI said:

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In comment 16466992 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: Because some BBIers would rather lose with Jones than win with another QB. It's going to be even more fun* when we finally move on, the team gets better, and people claim Jones would have done just as well if given the chance. *By fun I mean profoundly sad and dumb.

100%. The fan club surely already has their “responses” at the ready. “I’d have loved to have seen Daniel Jones play with this much talent! Jones would have 2 or 3 more wins than they do now if he was the QB!”.

It’s absolutely coming. We all know it. And of course if we are dreadfully saddled with Jones again this season and the season predictably goes off the rails, it will be because of the coaching staff, the OL, the weapons, the defense, the food vendors and the parking lot attendants.

In comment 16466366 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 16466317 djm said: Quote: Just to play along, who really "LIKES" Jones, here? Just a partial list, but... Jack Stroud ryanmkeane Snorkels 4xchamps kickoff Eightshamrocks Should I continue?

Eric on li (loves DJ's contract)

In comment 16467162 Darwinian said:

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In comment 16467156 Rudy5757 said: Quote: 1st 6 years in the league. They weren’t great. His 7th year the Giants won the Super Bowl and Phil actually had a pretty bad season as well. He threw for 21 TDs and 22 INTs with a 55% completion. Different era but those numbers are still terrible. That team went from one of the worst to one of the best. You need multiple good players to be successful on offense. No QB is ever successful without a star at WR or TE. None. So regardless if we draft a QB, that QB still needs a stud WR or TE. Where are you getting that guy? You are completely misrepresenting Phil Simms' standing as a QB. he was one of the better QBs in the league and he had solid stats to back it up. Phill Simms was never as bad with respect to the league as Daniel Jones was in 2023. In the season you are saying Simms was bad, he was 8th in yards, 7th in TDs, 9th in TD%, 9th in Y/A. His Y/A in 1986 was 7.5. Daniel Jones hasn't sniffed that mark in his 5 years, in this pass happy era. Jones is a bad passing QB. It's not just his surroundings. In fact maybe Slayton is a much better player with a better QB. In fact, I'm sure of it. How much more of this robotic, checkdown charlie do you really want to watch? What, you won't be content until the Giants are a 2 win team?

Oh stop with Jones holding players back nonsense. Go look at Richie James and Kadarius Toney playing with the best QB in the league and tell me they were held back here.

In comment 16467059 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16467026 bw in dc said: Quote: Humor me. How many more years of the Jones Experience should we endure? A sixth season? Seventh? Longer? This is how I see it: Jones is a flawed QB but he has his strengths and an offense can be built in which his weaknesses aren't an issue.

Can you see it...can you?

Because for the life of me, I cannot reconcile how your basic assessment of Jones above resembles any type of QB you want starting games for your favorite NFL team, no less giving him a $160M contract extension.

Maybe you can help.

In comment 16466938 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

In comment 16466932 Sean said: Quote: . Wife-who hates this website with every fiber of her being, Haha-asked me if Jones is polarizing on BBI. I responded, 'Not really. Most everyone wants to move on, but there are some Japanese like holdouts post WWII who will be fighting on Jones' behalf until the mid 2030s.'

See, I don't see it that way. I think it's about 50-50. Or at least more than handful of holdouts. Abd those that do support him as the QB moving forward are REALLY all in. It's nuts, but there are plenty of them.

In comment 16467217 Giantsbigblue said:

Quote:

In comment 16467162 Darwinian said: Quote: In comment 16467156 Rudy5757 said: Quote: 1st 6 years in the league. They weren’t great. His 7th year the Giants won the Super Bowl and Phil actually had a pretty bad season as well. He threw for 21 TDs and 22 INTs with a 55% completion. Different era but those numbers are still terrible. That team went from one of the worst to one of the best. You need multiple good players to be successful on offense. No QB is ever successful without a star at WR or TE. None. So regardless if we draft a QB, that QB still needs a stud WR or TE. Where are you getting that guy? You are completely misrepresenting Phil Simms' standing as a QB. he was one of the better QBs in the league and he had solid stats to back it up. Phill Simms was never as bad with respect to the league as Daniel Jones was in 2023. In the season you are saying Simms was bad, he was 8th in yards, 7th in TDs, 9th in TD%, 9th in Y/A. His Y/A in 1986 was 7.5. Daniel Jones hasn't sniffed that mark in his 5 years, in this pass happy era. Jones is a bad passing QB. It's not just his surroundings. In fact maybe Slayton is a much better player with a better QB. In fact, I'm sure of it. How much more of this robotic, checkdown charlie do you really want to watch? What, you won't be content until the Giants are a 2 win team? Oh stop with Jones holding players back nonsense. Go look at Richie James and Kadarius Toney playing with the best QB in the league and tell me they were held back here.

They barely played?

In comment 16466997 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 16466952 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I used to snicker @ the notion that there were BBIers who would choose to go 5-12 with Jones instead of 12-5 with someone else. But I think I was wrong. I think there are seriously some BBIers who would rather lose with Jones then win with someone else. It's funny because I see it just the opposite way: there are those on BBI who would rather lose with anyone but Jones than win with Jones. And if it's Jones at QB, they will be rooting for him to play poorly. They would rather lose with Jones than win with him.

How would we know? We have never won with Jones. That has never been an option throughout his whole career.

Oh wait…I forgot the magical run in 2022 when he single handedly carried the team to an historical win! I am looking forward to Daboll going back to an offense where Jones’ impact is just designed QB runs and seeing how his neck and knee hold up doing it for 17 games.

Absolutely mind blowing how many of you watch the Giants games every week for years and have no idea what you are seeing other than “I like #8! I am going to get his jersey and hope he never leaves!!!”

In comment 16467243 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16467217 Giantsbigblue said: Quote: In comment 16467162 Darwinian said: Quote: In comment 16467156 Rudy5757 said: Quote: 1st 6 years in the league. They weren’t great. His 7th year the Giants won the Super Bowl and Phil actually had a pretty bad season as well. He threw for 21 TDs and 22 INTs with a 55% completion. Different era but those numbers are still terrible. That team went from one of the worst to one of the best. You need multiple good players to be successful on offense. No QB is ever successful without a star at WR or TE. None. So regardless if we draft a QB, that QB still needs a stud WR or TE. Where are you getting that guy? You are completely misrepresenting Phil Simms' standing as a QB. he was one of the better QBs in the league and he had solid stats to back it up. Phill Simms was never as bad with respect to the league as Daniel Jones was in 2023. In the season you are saying Simms was bad, he was 8th in yards, 7th in TDs, 9th in TD%, 9th in Y/A. His Y/A in 1986 was 7.5. Daniel Jones hasn't sniffed that mark in his 5 years, in this pass happy era. Jones is a bad passing QB. It's not just his surroundings. In fact maybe Slayton is a much better player with a better QB. In fact, I'm sure of it. How much more of this robotic, checkdown charlie do you really want to watch? What, you won't be content until the Giants are a 2 win team? Oh stop with Jones holding players back nonsense. Go look at Richie James and Kadarius Toney playing with the best QB in the league and tell me they were held back here. They barely played?

And why would they have barely played?

In comment 16467156 Rudy5757 said:

Quote:

1st 6 years in the league. They weren’t great. His 7th year the Giants won the Super Bowl and Phil actually had a pretty bad season as well. He threw for 21 TDs and 22 INTs with a 55% completion. Different era but those numbers are still terrible. That team went from one of the worst to one of the best. You need multiple good players to be successful on offense. No QB is ever successful without a star at WR or TE. None. So regardless if we draft a QB, that QB still needs a stud WR or TE. Where are you getting that guy?

Some people need to look at a calendar. That was 40 years ago! The game is not the same at all. When was Phil Simms one of the highest paid players in the league during his struggles to prove he was an NFL level QB?

are made by two BBI groups. Group 1 wasn't born when Phil Simms was drafted and group II is desperately clinging to anything to find to justify giving Daniel Jones a 6th year.

Phil Simms was a Hall of Fame level talent in his era. Injuries kept him from getting elected. Daniel Jones is at best an average NFL starter talent in his era. It's an insult to Phil Simms to compare him to Daniel Jones.

The owner, the GM, and coach all seem open to Jones returning and competing for the starting job.

I personally look forward to Jones playing behind a competent line and talented pass catchers.

It's become an Autumn tradition over here at Casa Gonzales to watch the All 22 breakdowns of Jones missing guys open downfield. It almost approximates the joy of winning.

In comment 16467232 Matt M. said:

Quote:

In comment 16466938 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: In comment 16466932 Sean said: Quote: . Wife-who hates this website with every fiber of her being, Haha-asked me if Jones is polarizing on BBI. I responded, 'Not really. Most everyone wants to move on, but there are some Japanese like holdouts post WWII who will be fighting on Jones' behalf until the mid 2030s.' See, I don't see it that way. I think it's about 50-50. Or at least more than handful of holdouts. Abd those that do support him as the QB moving forward are REALLY all in. It's nuts, but there are plenty of them.

If you're willing to view Giants Twitter as a similar approximation of BBI sentiment, it's probably not 50/50:

In comment 16467266 christian said:

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The owner, the GM, and coach all seem open to Jones returning and competing for the starting job. I personally look forward to Jones playing behind a competent line and talented pass catchers. It's become an Autumn tradition over here at Casa Gonzales to watch the All 22 breakdowns of Jones missing guys open downfield. It almost approximates the joy of winning.

Look forward to the snap of the ball, seeing the RB flaring out into the flats and knowing instantly where the ball is going while Jones fakes like he’s actually looking downfield to draw the defenders away from his actual target

In comment 16467273 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

In comment 16467266 christian said: Quote: The owner, the GM, and coach all seem open to Jones returning and competing for the starting job. I personally look forward to Jones playing behind a competent line and talented pass catchers. It's become an Autumn tradition over here at Casa Gonzales to watch the All 22 breakdowns of Jones missing guys open downfield. It almost approximates the joy of winning. Look forward to the snap of the ball, seeing the RB flaring out into the flats and knowing instantly where the ball is going while Jones fakes like he’s actually looking downfield to draw the defenders away from his actual target

Is there a separate broadcast that shows Jones even pretending to look downfield? My TV never seems to show that angle.

That he was just above par, the other 4 season he was absolutely useless. He is a lousy QB, but is being paid as an elite QB because single season he played slightly above average was the first season that Daboll was his coach.
Daniel Jones proved that he was fool's gold last season.
It's past time to move on.

In comment 16467277 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 16467273 BigBlueShock said: Quote: In comment 16467266 christian said: Quote: The owner, the GM, and coach all seem open to Jones returning and competing for the starting job. I personally look forward to Jones playing behind a competent line and talented pass catchers. It's become an Autumn tradition over here at Casa Gonzales to watch the All 22 breakdowns of Jones missing guys open downfield. It almost approximates the joy of winning. Look forward to the snap of the ball, seeing the RB flaring out into the flats and knowing instantly where the ball is going while Jones fakes like he’s actually looking downfield to draw the defenders away from his actual target Is there a separate broadcast that shows Jones even pretending to look downfield? My TV never seems to show that angle.

It’s very brief. Like a split second so you really have to zoom in before he inevitably tosses the ball 15 feet over the covered RB in the flat

In comment 16467266 christian said:

Quote:

The owner, the GM, and coach all seem open to Jones returning and competing for the starting job. I personally look forward to Jones playing behind a competent line and talented pass catchers. It's become an Autumn tradition over here at Casa Gonzales to watch the All 22 breakdowns of Jones missing guys open downfield. It almost approximates the joy of winning.

It would not be Giant football without the constant replays showing the pre-snap reads Jones misses, the guys running open almost immediately from the snap while Jones stares a hole in the RB as he runs out into the flat with a safety timing his run at the RB to decapitate him.

It is what we get to look forward to instead of competitive games.

I can see it now. The Giants draft Nabers and Gary Brightwell leads the team in targets.

Maybe at halftime Slayton, Robinson, Hyatt, and Nabers can run exhibition 4x100s. It's about the only thing that speed will be good for.

Sometimes I sit back in wonder that there's a distinct possibility that we're going into year six of the Daniel Jones experience & there's still people-up to the owner himself apparently-who still think there's a chance Jones can lead us to the promised land.

What a world. What a time to be alive.

In comment 16467318 christian said:

Quote:

I can see it now. The Giants draft Nabers and Gary Brightwell leads the team in targets. Maybe at halftime Slayton, Robinson, Hyatt, and Nabers can run exhibition 4x100s. It's about the only thing that speed will be good for.

Now imagine how much better it gets when teams know Jones will be hesitant to run, the only thing he does well?

In comment 16467322 Mike from Ohio said:

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In comment 16467318 christian said: Quote: I can see it now. The Giants draft Nabers and Gary Brightwell leads the team in targets. Maybe at halftime Slayton, Robinson, Hyatt, and Nabers can run exhibition 4x100s. It's about the only thing that speed will be good for. Now imagine how much better it gets when teams know Jones will be hesitant to run, the only thing he does well?

And then add this to the picture, 8 games into an already lost season where Jones is playing awful, he injures himself yet again and kicks in his enormous injury guarantee for next year.

In comment 16467258 Giantsbigblue said:

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They barely played? And why would they have barely played?

Do you think that if Toney and James played the same amount of snaps as the top WRs on the chiefs they would have had better numbers with Mahomes or Jones?

I still can't believe Joe somehow-given Jones' extensive injury history even prior to last year-gave that injury guarantee. The Jones signing might go down as one of the worst-if not THE-in Giants history.

& of course a smart organization-figuring that injury clause & Jones' injury history-wouldn't even let him see the field this fall, but if he's ready to go Week 1, he'll presumably be the starter. I don't want to say the Giants are run by idiots, but there's a lot of evidence indicating that they are, from ownership on down.

ripped one of the band-aids off with Saquon. Time to remove the other one.

Franchise needs to move on.

Start Lock if QB isn't drafted. As Eric said, it's time to move on.

In comment 16467337 Sean said:

Quote:

Start Lock if QB isn't drafted. As Eric said, it's time to move on.

Yup

Cutting Jones the second after he can pass a physical would be the bold & right move IMO.

Of course it'll never happen.

1) All jokes aside, if the plan is to play Jones and he has diminished wheels, watching him as a pocket passer will be wild.

2) I'll spare everyone another thread, but the prospects of him ever playing another down are 100% predicated on him being ready by camp and the Giants not drafting a QB, anything else would be ridiculous.

And they could have done the same thing last year and tagged Jones, and he’d be off the team.

He's such a nice man, and it's not his fault that everyone around him has failed him. He just needs more time, more weapons, better coaching, etc. Plus, they owe him for all he's done for the organization!

(/sarcasm/)

In comment 16467345 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

And they could have done the same thing last year and tagged Jones, and he’d be off the team.

Agreed. I just can't see Schoen going into the year with a banged up Jones, Lock & DeVito. It makes no sense and I think Schoen knows it. We'll see what happens, but I think NYG finds a way to secure one of the top 6 QBs.

I look forward to a lock of check downs & a lot of him staring @ his first read.

2024 NEW YORK GIANTS FOOTBALL BABY! FEEL THE EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!

In comment 16467334 Eric from BBI said:

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ripped one of the band-aids off with Saquon. Time to remove the other one. Franchise needs to move on.

Exactly. Can you imagine if Jones misses the first couple of games, and then they either bench Lock or the rookie and go to Jones?

The fans would burn the tin can down.

In comment 16467328 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16467258 Giantsbigblue said: Quote: They barely played? And why would they have barely played? Do you think that if Toney and James played the same amount of snaps as the top WRs on the chiefs they would have had better numbers with Mahomes or Jones?

Do you really want to go down this road? It's OK for you to think Jones stinks. The fact that you can't understand that these players around him are no good says a lot about your ability to be reasonable. They didn't get snaps because they are not good players. KC did not have great players in front od them forcing them to sit.

Toney had an interpersonal meltdown and James was injured and missed 2 months with a sprained MCL.

Both of those players had fewer targets in 2023 because of factors outside of their talent.

In comment 16467378 Giantsbigblue said:

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Do you really want to go down this road? It's OK for you to think Jones stinks. The fact that you can't understand that these players around him are no good says a lot about your ability to be reasonable. They didn't get snaps because they are not good players. KC did not have great players in front od them forcing them to sit.

Let’s go down that road. Answer the question.

In comment 16467402 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16467378 Giantsbigblue said: Quote: Do you really want to go down this road? It's OK for you to think Jones stinks. The fact that you can't understand that these players around him are no good says a lot about your ability to be reasonable. They didn't get snaps because they are not good players. KC did not have great players in front od them forcing them to sit. Let’s go down that road. Answer the question.

Mahomes is a way better QB than Jones and Andy Reid is a way better offensive mind than Daboll. They are simply inconsistent players at best and their playing time reflected that. Slayton is inconsistent as well and is not going to go shine somewhere else.

Number 1 receiver he’d still only be a 700 yard receiver?

In comment 16467349 Sean said:

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In comment 16467345 ajr2456 said: Quote: And they could have done the same thing last year and tagged Jones, and he’d be off the team. Agreed. I just can't see Schoen going into the year with a banged up Jones, Lock & DeVito. It makes no sense and I think Schoen knows it. We'll see what happens, but I think NYG finds a way to secure one of the top 6 QBs.

I'm with you. I think Schoen finds a way to get one of the top 6 QBs when all is said and done. Perhaps not with pick #6, but somewhere.

In comment 16467389 christian said:

Quote:

Toney had an interpersonal meltdown and James was injured and missed 2 months with a sprained MCL. Both of those players had fewer targets in 2023 because of factors outside of their talent.

The meltdown was far from out of Tony's control, he is a head case who is worthless anywhere, however when he and James were able to be on the field they didn't get many targets because they're not very good.

Added - Golliday, Waller and Hyatt have caught their touchdowns from a QB not named Daniel Jones

In comment 16467485 ajr2456 said:

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Added - Golliday, Waller and Hyatt have caught their touchdowns from a QB not named Daniel Jones

We are bringing Golliday into this now? Come on man!

.

In comment 16467487 Giantsbigblue said:

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In comment 16467485 ajr2456 said: Quote: Added - Golliday, Waller and Hyatt have caught their touchdowns from a QB not named Daniel Jones We are bringing Golliday into this now? Come on man!

Why not Golladay. He was a pro bowl wr who Jones couldn't form a connection with. Remember Golladay yelling on the sideline in the Washington game? What was he yelling about?

In comment 16467510 ajr2456 said:

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.

Remember that time you said Calvin Johnson didn't play with Orlovsky and when proven wrong you deflected?

Anyhow he is a 3rd WR on most teams and wouldn't get much targets in Kansas. You either don't watch the games and just read stats or you must forget all the balls Golliday and Slayton have dropped. It doesn't matter who the QB is when the ball hits you in the hands and you drop the ball.

In comment 16467522 Darwinian said:

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In comment 16467487 Giantsbigblue said: Quote: In comment 16467485 ajr2456 said: Quote: Added - Golliday, Waller and Hyatt have caught their touchdowns from a QB not named Daniel Jones We are bringing Golliday into this now? Come on man! Why not Golladay. He was a pro bowl wr who Jones couldn't form a connection with. Remember Golladay yelling on the sideline in the Washington game? What was he yelling about?

He came here with a fork in his back and has not been signed since. This is getting comical.

In comment 16467536 Giantsbigblue said:

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In comment 16467510 ajr2456 said: Quote: . Remember that time you said Calvin Johnson didn't play with Orlovsky and when proven wrong you deflected? Anyhow he is a 3rd WR on most teams and wouldn't get much targets in Kansas. You either don't watch the games and just read stats or you must forget all the balls Golliday and Slayton have dropped. It doesn't matter who the QB is when the ball hits you in the hands and you drop the ball.

Dan Orlovsky played 7 games with Calvin Johnson, that was supposed to change Orlovsky’s career? By your logic shouldn’t they have seen what Orlovsky could do with a full season of Calvin Johnson? By the way, that year Orlovsky was on pace for more TDs than Jones threw in 2022z

Anyhow, not sure how not remembering 7 games of Orlovksys career is even relevant to the discussion. I’ll try asking the question again to see if you stop deflecting:

Would Slayton still be a 700 yard receiver if he was the #1 WR on the Chiefs?

What about Jones’ turnovers? Missed throws? I think it’s twice in the past two seasons he’s ran out of bounds for a loss of yards. He’s got the football IQ of a toaster.

In comment 16467545 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 16467536 Giantsbigblue said: Quote: In comment 16467510 ajr2456 said: Quote: . Remember that time you said Calvin Johnson didn't play with Orlovsky and when proven wrong you deflected? Anyhow he is a 3rd WR on most teams and wouldn't get much targets in Kansas. You either don't watch the games and just read stats or you must forget all the balls Golliday and Slayton have dropped. It doesn't matter who the QB is when the ball hits you in the hands and you drop the ball. Dan Orlovsky played 7 games with Calvin Johnson, that was supposed to change Orlovsky’s career? By your logic shouldn’t they have seen what Orlovsky could do with a full season of Calvin Johnson? By the way, that year Orlovsky was on pace for more TDs than Jones threw in 2022z Anyhow, not sure how not remembering 7 games of Orlovksys career is even relevant to the discussion. I’ll try asking the question again to see if you stop deflecting: Would Slayton still be a 700 yard receiver if he was the #1 WR on the Chiefs?

It's because you are not worth it because you can never admit to being wrong. I regret even responding to you.

You can’t bring up a past discussion and accuse someone of deflecting over a 7 game stretch of Orlovsky’s career, while deflecting yourself non stop in the thread.

Be a man, answer the question. Don’t run away.

If we're to believe the Giants, Jones will get another shot to prove everyone wrong (yet again). Eventually, the epic bad luck of Daniel Jones has to change and he'll be in the circumstances he so richly deserves.

In comment 16467553 ajr2456 said:

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You can’t bring up a past discussion and accuse someone of deflecting over a 7 game stretch of Orlovsky’s career, while deflecting yourself non stop in the thread. Be a man, answer the question. Don’t run away.

Never seen it.

I already answered it numerous times. He is who he is and wouldn't be a number 1 there. Mahomes doesn't magically turn these guys into stars. We all saw it this past season.

Using Golladay in this was an absolute joke as well.

Was free to sign anywhere last off season. If Kansas City wanted him they could have had him. No one was offering him big money for the untapped potential he has but is being held back by Jones.

Jones? But once another QB comes in they catch a touchdown? You can even leave Golladay out if you’d like.

If Slayton had Mahomes has his QB instead of a toaster would he produce more than the 770 yards he did with Jones?

You can shit on Slayton all you’d like but he’s 10 times the football player Daniel Jones is.

In comment 16467567 Giantsbigblue said:

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Was free to sign anywhere last off season. If Kansas City wanted him they could have had him. No one was offering him big money for the untapped potential he has but is being held back by Jones.

Thought you don’t like deflection?

He's still at zero.

Waller caught one (1) in 600 or so offensive snaps in 2023.

I'm no Jones fan but this angle doesn't add anything. Jones threw 2 TDs (and 6 INTs) in 5 plus games last season; criticizing that is enough.

In comment 16467539 Giantsbigblue said:

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In comment 16467522 Darwinian said: Quote: In comment 16467487 Giantsbigblue said: Quote: In comment 16467485 ajr2456 said: Quote: Added - Golliday, Waller and Hyatt have caught their touchdowns from a QB not named Daniel Jones We are bringing Golliday into this now? Come on man! Why not Golladay. He was a pro bowl wr who Jones couldn't form a connection with. Remember Golladay yelling on the sideline in the Washington game? What was he yelling about? He came here with a fork in his back and has not been signed since. This is getting comical.

He was on the field with Jones plenty. Jones wouldn't throw to him because Jones can't throw a fade to save his life. Jones can't hit precise leverage points in contested catch sitiations. And Jones has terrible touch. Either you can't admit it. Or you haven't a clue what you're looking at.

In comment 16467635 Darwinian said:

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He was on the field with Jones plenty. Jones wouldn't throw to him

Again, an inaccurate and unnecessary angle of criticism.

Golladay got off to a very respectable start with Jones in the first four weeks of 2021: 26 targets, 17 receptions, 282 yards, on pace for well over 1000.

In the Week 4 win over the Saints in the Dome, Golladay had 6 catches for 116.

The following week he suffered a knee injury that put him out for four weeks. When he came back, he had three quiet games and then Jones suffered the neck injury that ended his season.

From the beginning of 2022 training camp, Golladay was a diminished player: another year older/slower and further down the hill. No QB could have made 2022 Kenny Golladay a success.

And he's been out of the league since.

Despite Golladay playing well those first four weeks Jones threw 4 tds and the Giants average 19 points. Jones, even with things going well around him, can’t score points

In comment 16467688 ajr2456 said:

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Despite Golladay playing well those first four weeks Jones threw 4 tds and the Giants average 19 points. Jones, even with things going well around him, can’t score points

I was just curious & went back & looked @ Jones' 'spectacular' 2022 season...the offense cracked the 30 point barrier just twice-the first in a win vs. a checked out Colts team on New Year's & the second in that 'epic' WC win vs. that 'great' Vikes defense.

In comment 16467688 ajr2456 said:

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Despite Golladay playing well those first four weeks Jones threw 4 tds and the Giants average 19 points. Jones, even with things going well around him, can’t score points

No, his point (or attempted point) was that Jones wouldn't throw to Golladay. And that's not true.

As I said, I'm no Jones fan. Factual inaccuracies are unnecessary to criticize him.

Because he can’t throw a fade. That is in fact true