I'm sure the video will be posted soon.
A couple of things:
He covers college football for The Athletic so comes into this process with that perspective. He talks to a lot of college coaches so he had a lot of quotes similar to what Bob McGinn used to do.
Regarding Maye, he said one college defensive coordinator said you can rattle him... seemed similar to a comment Sy'56 made on a podcast questioning Maye's toughness. Any regular NC fans out there care to comment?
Feldman also said the two surest bets in the draft are Harrison Jr. and Odunze.
Personally, Odunze is my favorite prospect in this draft.
This guy is going to be exactly what we need and has the character and work ethic to take his talents to the next level.
We have a chance to fill a giant hole on the roster and I’m really rooting for Odunze to don the Blue… he’s like Nicks on “steroids” IMO
Exciting player…
I think there's a real chance we see Penix slide within range to trade pick 47 and 2025 2nd for him somewhere in the 24-32 slots.
Penix and Odunze would potentially be the best haul out of the first two rounds I could imagine. Everyone knows I love JJM, but Odunze is just an impeccable prospect. And if we could possibly pair him with his college QB I would be absolutely thrilled.
If Jones starts throwing Odunze open with anticipation and leverage it'd be a departure from what we've seen.
2024 NFL mock draft: What sources say about Williams, Daniels, McCarthy and other prospects - ( New Window )
If Jones starts throwing Odunze open with anticipation and leverage it'd be a departure from what we've seen.
I see a season ending upper body injury to a first round WR if Jones is QB1…prepare to see a bunch of potential medicine balls…
“Really good arm. Love his pocket presence. His awareness of where all the rushers are — whether it was four, five or six (coming) — was off the charts. It made him hard to pass rush. Any risk you took, whether it was going above and trying to turn the corner, or going inside, he felt it and was able to expose you. He could make you pay on just about anything you do. Pretty soon, he’d force you into pass rushing without aggression. He was really hard to deal with. I wouldn’t say he’s Trevor (Lawrence) but he’s probably the best we’ve seen since Trevor.”
“I think he could be a better quarterback than Caleb Williams if you can protect him. He throws the s— out of it, but the last two years we could tell that he really doesn’t like all that stuff around him. He gets a little bit scared back there, in my opinion. He is a good athlete, big, really good arm. But I thought (former UNC QB) Sam Howell was a tougher kid. He’s not as talented as Drake Maye. Sam could run it but he would stay in that pocket and be effective. But I didn’t think Kenny Pickett was worth a s— and he got drafted in the first round.”
“He checks all the boxes. Can roll left, can roll right; can be on the wrong foot, can throw off-platform. He’s great laterally. Was very busy with his feet earlier in his career; he got better quieting that down. That seemed to help his decision making and accuracy, but it looked like he regressed with that and got a little erratic.”
“Preseason, I was super impressed watching him on film. He played pretty good against us. He wasn’t super accurate. I think there were growing pains with his footwork and fundamentals, trying to adjust to a new system.”
Quote:
If Jones is the quarterback expect a rough rookie year. Odunze is a physical, contested catch guy. He was great at UW because Penix is comfortable throwing with anticipation and leverage - he throws people open.
If Jones starts throwing Odunze open with anticipation and leverage it'd be a departure from what we've seen.
I see a season ending upper body injury to a first round WR if Jones is QB1…prepare to see a bunch of potential medicine balls…
Hospital ball. Not medicine.
below is what he's posted on the 3 WRs and 6 QBs so far (his ranks come out next week and i believe will include wonderlics/newer info). Reminder these aren't ranks in order, that comes next week:
Malik Nabers, Louisiana State (NA): NFL teams have no verified height, weight or speed after he declined measurements and testing in Indianapolis. “He’s not Harrison,” one scout said. “If you see that he’s better than Harrison, just ignore it. He’s more of that D.J. Moore kind of player. Thick running-back build. They do a lot of that underneath movement, slip-screen stuff with him. He’s a good player, a really good player. Tough, strong. I don’t think he has elite ball skills. He’ll be a good starter.” Had four dropped passes in the eight games broken down by another scout. “That was the only thing that disappointed me,” he said. “But they were all on slants and hitches so I think he’s so anxious to run after the catch that he doesn’t concentrate sometimes. He has the best run-after-the-catch of the group. After the catch this guy is just sensational. This guy’s quicker than Justin Jefferson but Justin Jefferson is stronger and better in traffic. Nabers is amazing after the catch, and that’s what it’s all about, really, today.” Finished second in college football last season with 1,569 receiving yards. “He’s more physically talented than Harrison but he’s not as big and not as much of a pro as Marvin is,” said a third scout. “He’s got some volatility, some immaturity. Of the top three guys, if there’s one whose makeup would not allow him to reach his potential, it might be Nabers. But he’s very passionate about football and plays the game that way and is highly competitive. The other (top) kids are just so damn clean.”
Rome Odunze, Washington (6-3, 212): Saved his best for last, compiling career bests in 2023 for receptions (92), yards (1,640), average (17.8) and TDs (13). “He might be faster than Harrison,” said one scout. “Harrison is more powerful. Who is he like? Tim Brown. He has Tim Brown’s smoothness. All of a sudden he’s on top of you and he’s gone. He’s a complete receiver, too. He can catch, run after the catch and he blocks.” His 40 time at the combine was 4.45, his vertical jump of 39 inches was excellent and his shuttle runs were outstanding. “He’s a great kid and it wouldn’t surprise me if Odunze ended up being the best of the class,” a second scout said. “What’s crazy is he has production and there were three receivers there (Washington) that are getting drafted. He could be the slam dunk of the group. He’s not getting as much (hype) now but let’s be honest, some of that is because he’s on the West Coast.” Finished with 214 receptions and a 15.3 average. “He’s good, but I have some issues with his quickness and his ability to separate,” a third scout said. “He’s strong, but his lack of explosiveness really bothered me. You hear, ‘He makes these great plays,’ but none of them are really high in the air. They’re all where he bodies guys and they’re lower catches. You just don’t do that in the NFL. You better go up over somebody. I think he’ll be a solid pro. Nothing special.”
Quarterbacks (6)
Caleb Williams, Southern California (6-1, 214): Won the Heisman Trophy in 2022, failed to finish among the top 10 in 2023. “The ultimate playmaker but he can play within a system, too,” one scout said. “He has. He can throw on timing. He just has rare feel for the game and playmaking. That team was horrible around him. The offensive line was atrocious. He’s worth the first pick. The (Patrick) Mahomes comparisons are unfair because you shouldn’t put that on anybody, but when he does a lot of the crazy stuff it looks like him. He’s Mahomes (but) he can get the yards running.” Declined to undergo medical tests or work out at the combine. Hands were 9 ¾. “If you go to the Notre Dame game (Oct. 14), where they put some pressure on the guy, his mechanics were awful and he just goes wild against them,” said a second scout. “He had problems in games where they put pressure on him. Talented athlete with a strong arm and big-play ability. Reminds me of Kyler Murray. More of a playground type. Better athlete than passer. Guys like this that play out of the pocket get injured. He’s a Lincoln Riley guy. I think Lincoln Riley is a myth.” Played for Riley at Oklahoma as a freshman after replacing Spencer Rattler in mid-October before joining the coach in LA. “He’s a generational kid but he’s by no means a 100% kid,” a third scout said. “He’s got a lot going on. His dad’s a pain in the ass. He’s got a management team. He’s supposedly going to do nothing (at the combine), not even get the medical. It’s not the kid. It’s other people. This is a guy who will fly to Milan for a fashion show. Other interests are great. It’s just the one position where if I hear a guy has a ton of other interests … to be a franchise QB1 in today’s world I don’t want a robot but a lot of outside interests concern me. But, talent-wise, it’s him and there’s a significant step down.” His exact height was 6-1 1/8.
Jayden Daniels, Louisiana State (NA): Not only declined to work out at the combine but also refused to be measured. “He’s No. 2,” said one scout. “It’s close (with Williams), much closer than No. 2 and No. 3 (Drake Maye). You saw it when he was a freshman at Arizona State. He had something to him. He can take one play and just blow it out. His arm is incredible. He’s got vision and poise in the pocket. He’s got rare escapability. Competitive and productive. I compared him a little bit more to Lamar (Jackson) than Mahomes. When he takes off, kind of like Lamar, it’s 60 yards. He has a more natural throwing motion than Lamar. He’s legit.” Won the Heisman in 2023, his second season for LSU. Had an excellent freshman year for the Sun Devils but then showed signs of regression in 2020-’21. “I don’t know if I’ve ever seen anybody like him,” said one seasoned scout. “He could be a running back. He was the closest thing I’ve seen to Mahomes but he actually might be better because he’s faster and a better runner and a much better pure athlete. Mahomes is a good athlete.” Demonstrated vast improvement in his final season. “That guy bothers me just because his short-to-medium passes he misses horribly,” said a third scout. “He can throw the deep ball but he had two of the best receivers in all of LSU history. Yeah, he can run, except he’s not very big. I think he may get broken in two. To me, he’s more athlete than quarterback. I wouldn’t take the guy in the first.”
Drake Maye, North Carolina (6-4, 223): Finished 10th in the Heisman vote in 2022 but wasn’t among the top 10 in 2023. The Tar Heels were 9-5 in 2022 and 8-5 last year. Backed up Sam Howell as a freshman. “He’s No. 3 (on the list) but I haven’t seen much improvement,” one scout said. “He really didn’t raise the level of that program. That last game, I’ve never seen a quarterback who’s supposed to be a top guy have absolutely no answers for a team (North Carolina State). I always had concerns that he couldn’t raise his level, but that just cemented it. He shrunk under just the pressure and the gravity of what was going on around him. He’s got an arm. He can move around. But everything is just flashes. Nothing is consistent. It’s all flashes. Doesn’t have a very good feel for the game. There’s a little bit of Drew Lock in him.” His athletic ability and stature brought up memories of John Elway for another scout. “He can flick the ball the length of the field,” he said. “Has accuracy in and out of the pocket. This was not a good team. He had a lot of pressure on him most games. He was the whole team.” Didn’t work out at the combine. Hands were 9 1/8. “He’s only started two years,” said a third scout. “He’s still growing. They don’t drill fundamentals at all. But he’s big, good enough arm, smart, really accurate. I don’t know he’s going to be dynamic but guys like him win Super Bowls. He’s a pocket passer but he’s not a statue. I don’t think he’s Tom Brady but he’s in the Tom Brady church as far as style of player. You’re not going to miss on the kid, either. Super competitive family. Youngest of four brothers, all of whom were college athletes. Kid knows how to work.”
Bo Nix, Oregon (6-2, 214): Third in the Heisman voting last year. “Would it surprise me if he was drafted in the first round?” one scout said. “No. He’s more second round, but worse talented guys than him have been drafted in the first. He has more talent than Kenny Pickett. I think you can win with Bo Nix. He has improved himself tremendously since he left Auburn, both as a quarterback and as a person.” Named Southeastern Conference freshman of the year in 2019, his first of three seasons as the starter for the Tigers. Started two years at Oregon, enjoying his finest season in 2023 with 45 TD passes compared to three interceptions. “He’s smart like Alex Smith,” a second scout said. “I think he’ll start. He doesn’t make mistakes. Good athlete, good arm strength. He improved a lot. At Auburn, he was just all over the place. He’s a very disciplined quarterback. They did a very good job with him at Oregon. They have a system there and he worked perfect in it. He’s accurate at what they asked him to do at Oregon but they didn’t throw outside the numbers. Kenny Pickett is better.” Didn’t work out at the combine. Hands were 10 1/8. “I feel I’ve seen this guy for 10 years,” said a third scout. “I’ve always questioned how well he feels the game, his moxie and poise. He got to Oregon and that system and everything’s just like a gimme. I just think he’s really scattered. Good enough athlete. If things break down he panics. Just a huge question mark.”
J.J. McCarthy, Michigan (6-2 ½, 219): Tenth in Heisman voting. Voted MVP by his teammates in mid-December before two playoff victories raised his career mark to 27-1. “He’s a good player,” one scout said. “I just don’t know he’s ever going to be any more than he is right now. Somebody said (Jim) Harbaugh loves him because he’s basically Harbaugh. He’s f—king gritty, strong defense, strong running game. Bo Nix is significantly better, and I like (Spencer) Rattler better than both of them.” Did throw during combine drills but didn’t run or test. “I like him as a short-to-intermediate passer,” a second scout said. “He’s smart. He’ll distribute the ball. But I don’t see him as a guy who will win a game.” Saw limited duty as a freshman behind Cade McNamara before claiming the job in Game 2 of 2022. “I like J.J. but are you really going to take this guy in the first round?” a third scout said. “A guy that throws 15 times a game? They just keep him out of the way and they run the ball and play D. I just don’t think he’s a real talented guy. He’s tough as hell. He’s a winner and all that, but as far as quarterback talent and vision … He’s a one-read, simple read guy. Half-field. Even with that his accuracy is a little bit off. He’s a good enough athlete but nothing where you’re saying this guy’s dynamic. Throws everything hard. I just don’t see a very talented dude.” His 9-inch hands were the smallest of the 13 quarterbacks measured at the combine. “I just think that he’s a guy,” a fourth scout said. “More of a game manager. Their game is all play-action. Teams (crowded) the box most of the time. He is good outside the pocket. The receivers run around and come back to him. Holds the ball. Inconsistent mechanics. Of the six games I watched he had seven tipped balls. I questioned his touch. Michigan’s coaching was so good. They knew what every one of their players could and could not do … Thinking back, he’s kind of like his coach. Jim moved around. He wasn’t a great passer but he found ways to win. McCarthy is more physically gifted than Harbaugh but it’s the same mentality. You’re not going to make mistakes. Play outside the pocket.”
Michael Penix, Washington (6-2 ½, 217): Second in Heisman voting in 2023, eighth in ’22. “He’s No. 4 on the list,” one scout said. “If it was before Michigan got a hold of him, I’d have him over Maye. But in that last game every flaw he had got exposed. Thing was, the game before (against Texas), it was the best game he’s played. Off that game this guy was top-10. I saw the movement I never saw during the year. They rolled him. He ran. Then Michigan, it was the scattered throws, he didn’t have escapability like you want him to have. But I love his production. He has really good feel and vision. He has confidence in his arm. He needs some more touch. Just the overall movement is a little bit of a concern. He’s got the best deep ball I’ve seen. He can throw down the field better than he can throw 5-yard routes … The medical will all come into play. That’s scary.” Suffered season-ending injuries four times, all as an Indiana Hoosier. The list included right ACL in 2018 and another in ’20, dislocated non-throwing shoulder in ’20 and damaged throwing shoulder in ’21 that required surgery. “He doesn’t do that much for me,” a second scout said. “He’s had a lot of injuries. He won’t last.” His NFL passer ratings were 87.9 at Indiana and 105.4 at Washington. “I can’t get the damn Indiana tape out of my mind,” said a third scout. “It was real bad. Now I give the kid credit. He changed scenery and kind of reinvented himself and had a hell of a team this year. He played in a system he was comfortable with and a coach (Kalen DeBoer) he had played for. But his mechanics just throwing the ball are bizarre. He’s got arm strength, big hands and he can fling it. He’s got like a weird sidearm short release. Accuracy’s up and down. I don’t know how tough this kid is. He shows you fringe starter talent and barely No. 3 talent. But there are so many quarterback gurus and experts that, ‘Oh, if I get my hands on him I can do this.’ So it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s picked in the second. I sure in hell wouldn’t pick him there.” Hands were 10 ½, largest for the position.
The 6-foot-3, 212-pound Odunze isn’t quite as fast as Nabers, but he is really explosive. The former track standout from Las Vegas clocked a 4.45 40 at the combine with a 1.52 10-yard split, a 39-inch vertical and a 4.03 shuttle time. His film is even more impressive than his workout numbers. Last season, he had 92 catches for 1,640 yards and 13 touchdowns. Everyone who has been around him comes away impressed. His ball skills are truly elite.
“His focus is awesome,” a former Washington assistant told The Athletic, adding that Odunze would come back to the sideline and could tell coaches exactly how many times the ball rotated before it got to him. From the feedback I got from NFL folks and others who had been around him during the combine run-up, I came away thinking that Odunze is the other receiver alongside Harrison closest to being a can’t-miss prospect.
The Coaching Intel
“(He is) as good as we’ve faced (in two decades as a college coach). Unbelievable with the ball in the air. Fantastic hands. Very good route runner. Good size. Good competitor. He is as good at tracking the ball as I’ve ever seen. That 50-50 ball, he had to have been 85 percent or better at those.”
“He can play inside or outside and eat you up. He’s very polished and has a lot in his bag. He makes great adjustments and is very, very strong. He’s the alpha receiver who bullies guys whenever there’s a contested catch. I know people talked a lot about Marvin Harrison and we never played him, but if he’s better than this guy, man, that’s really saying something.”
If Jones starts throwing Odunze open with anticipation and leverage it'd be a departure from what we've seen.
I've had this exact same thing in my head. Jones hasn't learned to "trust his receivers" and this may be because he's very really played with a star.
Either way, in his short season there were at least a few instances where Hyatt was even with a guy and if he pulled the trigger at that point, Jaylin would have been 2 steps ahead by the time the ball got there. I can see the same with Odunze having position on a CB 4 inches shorter and 20lbs lighter.
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If Jones is the quarterback expect a rough rookie year. Odunze is a physical, contested catch guy. He was great at UW because Penix is comfortable throwing with anticipation and leverage - he throws people open.
If Jones starts throwing Odunze open with anticipation and leverage it'd be a departure from what we've seen.
I've had this exact same thing in my head. Jones hasn't learned to "trust his receivers" and this may be because he's very really played with a star.
Either way, in his short season there were at least a few instances where Hyatt was even with a guy and if he pulled the trigger at that point, Jaylin would have been 2 steps ahead by the time the ball got there. I can see the same with Odunze having position on a CB 4 inches shorter and 20lbs lighter.
*very rarely
You can love the WR's but, WR's get pissed, regress and become disengaged when their QB sucks.
Give me the young guy with all the tools to work with Dabs and boom I am happy..
If Schoen has inside info about Penix dropping, it would be huge to pair these two up in the pros.
If Schoen has inside info about Penix dropping, it would be huge to pair these two up in the pros.
The problem for the Giants regarding Penix I think is the Raiders.
If Schoen has inside info about Penix dropping, it would be huge to pair these two up in the pros.
A Penix/Odunze stack would finally be building something here.
golong with tyler dunne. the draft stuff is behind paywall but it's only $8 for the month of april.
https://www.golongtd.com - ( New Window )
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Penix made them 70/30 balls. Remember Eli throwing back shoulders to Nicks or Plax? That's Penix.
If Schoen has inside info about Penix dropping, it would be huge to pair these two up in the pros.
The problem for the Giants regarding Penix I think is the Raiders.
I would bet a lot on the Raiders going Mitchell, Arnold, Latham, Fuaga, Faushanu, or Mims at 13. They are not going QB, they are going to give O'Connell a chance imo. He finished the last 4 games of the year with 860 yards, 8 tds and 0 ints. They also signed Minshew to 2 years 25 million. They are zeroing in on tackle or cornerback, CB rd1 tackle rd2 is expected.
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In comment 16466568 Go Terps said:
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Penix made them 70/30 balls. Remember Eli throwing back shoulders to Nicks or Plax? That's Penix.
If Schoen has inside info about Penix dropping, it would be huge to pair these two up in the pros.
The problem for the Giants regarding Penix I think is the Raiders.
I would bet a lot on the Raiders going Mitchell, Arnold, Latham, Fuaga, Faushanu, or Mims at 13. They are not going QB, they are going to give O'Connell a chance imo. He finished the last 4 games of the year with 860 yards, 8 tds and 0 ints. They also signed Minshew to 2 years 25 million. They are zeroing in on tackle or cornerback, CB rd1 tackle rd2 is expected.
Way to narrow it down. You picked every prospect projected in that area and listed them.
Still cant believe JerseyJoe is allowed to post on every thread.
His upside is higher and also fits what Daboll wants to do.
Its Maye (somehow) or Nabers.
“Really good arm. Love his pocket presence. His awareness of where all the rushers are — whether it was four, five or six (coming) — was off the charts. It made him hard to pass rush. Any risk you took, whether it was going above and trying to turn the corner, or going inside, he felt it and was able to expose you. He could make you pay on just about anything you do. Pretty soon, he’d force you into pass rushing without aggression. He was really hard to deal with. I wouldn’t say he’s Trevor (Lawrence) but he’s probably the best we’ve seen since Trevor.”
“I think he could be a better quarterback than Caleb Williams if you can protect him. He throws the s— out of it, but the last two years we could tell that he really doesn’t like all that stuff around him. He gets a little bit scared back there, in my opinion. He is a good athlete, big, really good arm. But I thought (former UNC QB) Sam Howell was a tougher kid. He’s not as talented as Drake Maye. Sam could run it but he would stay in that pocket and be effective. But I didn’t think Kenny Pickett was worth a s— and he got drafted in the first round.”
“He checks all the boxes. Can roll left, can roll right; can be on the wrong foot, can throw off-platform. He’s great laterally. Was very busy with his feet earlier in his career; he got better quieting that down. That seemed to help his decision making and accuracy, but it looked like he regressed with that and got a little erratic.”
“Preseason, I was super impressed watching him on film. He played pretty good against us. He wasn’t super accurate. I think there were growing pains with his footwork and fundamentals, trying to adjust to a new system.”
Love his pocket presence.
He really doesn't like all that stuff around him. He gets a little bit scared back there.
Yeah, that makes sense.
If Schoen has inside info about Penix dropping, it would be huge to pair these two up in the pros.
Currently, this is my reasonable wish based on the fact that they will in all likelihood get one of top 3 WRs at 6 (Nabers or Odunze, one asshat said Daboll REALLY likes Nabers, one said Nabers gun incident and other character concerns has them leaning toward Odunze). Penix sliding to the back of rd1 really isn't that far fetched.
His upside is higher and also fits what Daboll wants to do.
Its Maye (somehow) or Nabers.
This seems to be the prevailing opinion of the asshats.
Bench presses- 380 pounds
225 bench reps- 20 times
Squat- 500 pounds
Long Jump 10 feet 8 inches
Max sprint velocity- 23.5 MPH
And most impressive he clocked an incredible 3.94 seconds in the short shuttle.
Harrison chose not to workout at the Combine, but college teams all do their own preseason combine and Feldman reported the results.
If Marvin Harrison Jr. is still on the board at #6, no question what I would do.
Odunze AND another 2024 third rounder would be terrific. (This assumes Tennessee wants Alt and Chicago wants an edge).
This guy is going to be exactly what we need and has the character and work ethic to take his talents to the next level.
We have a chance to fill a giant hole on the roster and I’m really rooting for Odunze to don the Blue… he’s like Nicks on “steroids” IMO
Exciting player…
100% agree.
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If Jones is the quarterback expect a rough rookie year. Odunze is a physical, contested catch guy. He was great at UW because Penix is comfortable throwing with anticipation and leverage - he throws people open.
If Jones starts throwing Odunze open with anticipation and leverage it'd be a departure from what we've seen.
I see a season ending upper body injury to a first round WR if Jones is QB1…prepare to see a bunch of potential medicine balls…
Yup. I think we're getting too wrapped up in WR1 (90 score) v QB5 (80 score) at the expense of team building.
That all becomes irrelevant on April 27.
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Nabers might not be a happy camper before too long this fall…
Yup. I think we're getting too wrapped up in WR1 (90 score) v QB5 (80 score) at the expense of team building.
That all becomes irrelevant on April 27.
Don't confuse the small minority who says the Giants don't need a QB with those who question if we can be in position to draft a QB.
- the consensus seems to be that at least two QBs are definitely out of reach (whomever Chicago and Washington take).
- the prevailing opinion is that New England, despite all of the noise, will also take a QB. But there is a chance they could deal with the Giants or another team.
- no one knows at all what Arizona and the Chargers will do, but many also think they may trade down.
the net of all of this is that three QBs may be off the board without the Giants being able to do anything. That would leave either Maye or McCarthy available at #4, #5, and maybe #6.
Do the Giants call the bluff and stand pat at #6? Or do they trade away their limited assets to move up 1, 2, or 3 spots, including next year's #1? Does that offer beat the Vikings three #1's?
I'm sure you know this.
That's why your plan to trade away next year's #1 to move back up into the 1st round to take Penix could make sense (assuming the team is OK with his medicals). But he still needs to fall past teams like Denver and the Raiders and maybe others.
Some out there would probably take Penix at #6.
Some out there would probably take Penix at #6.
Myself included. I think his medicals checking out and him working out well was a huge gift to the Giants - they don't need to trade up to get a quality QB prospect.
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Penix made them 70/30 balls. Remember Eli throwing back shoulders to Nicks or Plax? That's Penix.
If Schoen has inside info about Penix dropping, it would be huge to pair these two up in the pros.
The problem for the Giants regarding Penix I think is the Raiders.
For the last month or so I have just assumed Nix will end up in Denver and Penix will end up in Las Vegas. Those just seem like the natural fits.
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Some out there would probably take Penix at #6.
Myself included. I think his medicals checking out and him working out well was a huge gift to the Giants - they don't need to trade up to get a quality QB prospect.
Playing devils advocate here. If I’m Joe Schoen I’m not sure I want to take a QB with Penix’s injury history at 6. If he gets hurt again I’m probably fired.
Schoen’s best move in my opinion is to take Odunze at 6 and trade this years second, next years first, and maybe even a third next year to trade back into round one to get Penix.
Exactly.
This is about the QB evaluations. To say that Maye is worth trading up for, but Penix is not worth drafting at 6...that doesn't compute for me.
The long game of Penix has Raiders written all over it.
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Some out there would probably take Penix at #6.
Myself included. I think his medicals checking out and him working out well was a huge gift to the Giants - they don't need to trade up to get a quality QB prospect.
I would too. I would sit tight at #6 and if Penix is there take him. Watching Odunze run up and down the field while Jones stares a hole in Singletary as he runs out into the flat doesn't interest me at all.
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In comment 16466568 Go Terps said:
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Penix made them 70/30 balls. Remember Eli throwing back shoulders to Nicks or Plax? That's Penix.
If Schoen has inside info about Penix dropping, it would be huge to pair these two up in the pros.
The problem for the Giants regarding Penix I think is the Raiders.
For the last month or so I have just assumed Nix will end up in Denver and Penix will end up in Las Vegas. Those just seem like the natural fits.
This is how I see it... Two bad QB rooms and good fits.
That's not the issue.
The long game of Penix has Raiders written all over it.
Or Giants. Look at the Giants' best offensive weapons - the deep speed of Slayton and Hyatt.
That's not the issue.
The issue is QB evaluation.
How is Maye worth a trade up, but Penix is not worth sitting at 6 and picking him there?
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If the Giants were picking #1 or #2, they would be taking a QB.
That's not the issue.
The issue is QB evaluation.
How is Maye worth a trade up, but Penix is not worth sitting at 6 and picking him there?
you ask this rhetorically like you didnt say the same thing about malik willis at #5 before the entire NFL passed on him 2x.
the draft hasnt happened yet so penix could be a top 10 pick. or he could be a 3rd rounder. only in fantasy land is any qb evaluation as simple as you imply.
At least they are finally admitting what anyone with eyes already knows.
I said weeks ago that it would not surprise me if someone taken later in the draft ends up being the best QB in the class. Penix is an obvious candidate.
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If the Giants were picking #1 or #2, they would be taking a QB.
That's not the issue.
The issue is QB evaluation.
How is Maye worth a trade up, but Penix is not worth sitting at 6 and picking him there?
I believe there is a good chance Penix slides into the back of rd1 at which point a team will trade up for him I bet. I'd imagine Schoen has a feel for this. So, if we take Odunze or Nabers at 6 I'll be keeping a close eye on Penix potentially sliding within reach.
nobody is the pros included - so much of it is mental and we have no access to or ability to analyze it beyond very far downstream signals (like wonderlic, etc).
bryce young is the only qb i'd have pounded a table for in the last half decade because his field vision was so obviously undeniable and while i still think he will be a good player most already consider him a bust.
After that it’s Harrison because he is the surest player. He may not turn out to be the best WR but he is as sure a thing as there is. Next I go Nabors, for the electric play. It’s close with Odunze and I would take any of the 3 but I think Daboll offense fits Nabors better. I am a little worried about his attitude though, so hard to know if that Diva is just a little too much for the Giants
Join the club.
Odunze won 85% of his contested catches and despite what some are saying the passes were not accurate. If they had been accurate by definition they would not be contested.
Many times the ball was short when Odunze had steps on the defender.
There were many times were Penix would just throw the ball up knowing that Odunze was special.
Much in the way Odunze helped Penix, he would do that for any QB.
How can the Giants draft a player who is 24 years old, injury-prone (missed 4 seasons due to injury), is inaccurate in the middle of the field, is the worst among the top 6 QBs under pressure, does not feel pressure, and does not escape pressure.
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His upside is higher and also fits what Daboll wants to do.
Its Maye (somehow) or Nabers.
This seems to be the prevailing opinion of the asshats.
I endorse this message.
Now he may be wrong, but I can virtually guarantee that is what he would say.
Then look at Nabers. This team wants a vertical passing game in the worst way. We have yet to see Daboll's offense outside of a few glimpses last year when TT was in there. Of all WR traits, they have singled out separation in the past and Nabers can give that like no other. Yes, by selecting Nabers they still need the QB. They aren't going to complete the rebuild in this draft but they can certainly move the needle. Nabers would give Daboll a massive weapon in the passing game when he takes over play calling, something they desperatly need, especially given the departure of Barkley who as the one player defenses felt they needed to pay attention to.
Not the least of which would be depending on Neal to protect his blindside.
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Some out there would probably take Penix at #6.
Myself included. I think his medicals checking out and him working out well was a huge gift to the Giants - they don't need to trade up to get a quality QB prospect.
I also think Penix at 6 makes more sense than taking a WR and then trading the 2025 first back up for Penix.
I wonder if the existing WR group is adequate for Penix? We saw the success Taylor had with Slayton. Penix is an excellent thrower and can push the ball down the field, I'd love to see what he can do with Hyatt. Fans often talk about what Jones can do with a better WR, but why is the talk not what Hyatt can do with a different QB? I keep thinking about the Raider game where Jones missed Hyatt twice.
Penix with Slayton, Hyatt & Robinson is interesting. It also allows you to go in a different direction in the 2nd round, I wouldn't mind spending that pick on the DL and really build an identity there.
I can see people thinking Penix is risky with his health, but it's a very interesting build considering the WRs in place already. It excites me more than Jones & Nabers. Why not try something different?
I really think Penix is going to slide into the end of rd1 or further if the Vikings trade up. Maybe the Seahawks take him, but I really don't think the Raiders or Broncos or anyone else would. It's worth the risk if JJM/Maye don't slide. These receivers are too elite to pass up, I'd be fine if we took one over JJM even though I really believe in JJM. They are that elite. Penix is the one player I predict to slide into the end of rd1/beginning of rd2 like Levis did last year. Odunze and Penix could be like a version of Burrow and Chase down the road.
Doubtful with only six picks in the draft.
I agree. However, drafting a WR to pair up with Jones will be more of the same imo.
Daniel Jones has never thrown higher than 6.8 Y/A in college or NFL. Why should any of us believe he's going to throw down the field now?
But, you are implying all these QBs are not worthy of the pick. It's a strong QB class. So many have this idea that there will be a clear moment when it's time to draft a QB, it doesn't work that way. Most QBs are polarizing and NYG likely will be picking anywhere between 5-12 in the draft next year.
Just looking at Sy for example: Penix and Nix both have higher grades than what he gave Mahomes and Allen. Teams land 10 year QBs because they actually draft one. You've got to draft a QB to hit on it, and it won't be a consensus pick. When do the Giants try? What blue chip prospect next year will be the reason to not draft QB again?
10 years? Very doubtful.
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
But, you are implying all these QBs are not worthy of the pick. It's a strong QB class. So many have this idea that there will be a clear moment when it's time to draft a QB, it doesn't work that way. Most QBs are polarizing and NYG likely will be picking anywhere between 5-12 in the draft next year.
Just looking at Sy for example: Penix and Nix both have higher grades than what he gave Mahomes and Allen. Teams land 10 year QBs because they actually draft one. You've got to draft a QB to hit on it, and it won't be a consensus pick. When do the Giants try? What blue chip prospect next year will be the reason to not draft QB again?
I'm not a fan of trading a king's ransom for Maye and I would take JJM at 6, but I've come to terms with the fact that they very well could take Odunze at 6 over JJM. I'd be fine with that and I would be praying Penix slid within reach to trade up from 47 into the backhalf of rd1 (pick 47 2025 2nd and 3rd could do that I think). Honestly, I don't know how the Vikings pulled off that trade for 23 with just a 2025 2nd, at least on the mock draft simulators that trade is never accepted.
Agreed that WR is sounding more and more likely, with a possible day 2,3 QB dart through at best. But don’t forget public consensus likely doesn’t reflect team boards, and there is no guarantee QB will be there in 2025 or that NYG will be in a position to draft one without mortgaging the future.
Not taking a QB this year and they may get fired
And if Penix (as well as the other top 6 QBs) are gone by pick 13, then plan c should be to take QB-7 (Rattler/Pratt/Milton) in RD-3.
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
But, you are implying all these QBs are not worthy of the pick. It's a strong QB class. So many have this idea that there will be a clear moment when it's time to draft a QB, it doesn't work that way. Most QBs are polarizing and NYG likely will be picking anywhere between 5-12 in the draft next year.
Just looking at Sy for example: Penix and Nix both have higher grades than what he gave Mahomes and Allen. Teams land 10 year QBs because they actually draft one. You've got to draft a QB to hit on it, and it won't be a consensus pick. When do the Giants try? What blue chip prospect next year will be the reason to not draft QB again?
No, I'm all for taking a QB if the grade justifies. I'm just saying Jones should not be motivation. If that's your reasoning, than that's desperation, which is how bad choices get made. If the grade warrants it --go get him. If not, then move the needle on one of our many other needs.
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
10 years? Very doubtful.
Then they aren't the guy. Because for a true franchise QB --that's what you're looking for. We shouldn't be looking for a caretaker.
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
Not taking a QB this year and they may get fired
Is that what you want? A weak GM drafting out of fear and self preservation? The goal is to win championships, and this (advocating desperation drafting) is not a convincing argument.
And halfway though the season when we're 2-7 and his stat line is disappointing, I'll look forward to the answer he gives the media.
And Mara will shit a kitten.
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In comment 16467150 UberAlias said:
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
Not taking a QB this year and they may get fired
Is that what you want? A weak GM drafting out of fear and self preservation? The goal is to win championships, and this (advocating desperation drafting) is not a convincing argument.
It's a matter of fact, look around the league. Another crappy year with Jones and at minimum Brian Daboll is gone, and it really wouldn't surprise me if Schoen went too.
Sell wins or sell hope
Do you think the Giants would be in a worse spot with Malik Willis on the roster than Evan Neal? I’d call that a wash so far. Two players who have not shown the ability to play NFL level football.
This is why treating first round picks as some sort of gold that must be constantly protected. A good half of the guys taken in the top 10 this year will be picks those teams regret in 3 years.
Why would they pass on a QB like Penix who everyone is discounting because of the injuries (which have not been an issue for 2 years) who is arguably the best deep passer in this class?
There is not a better match than the Raiders taking Penix in the first. If the Giants plan is to take a WR at #6 and then trade back up for a QB, they will need to get ahead of the Raiders at #13 to do it. Getting from #47 to #12 will obviously cost a lot.
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In comment 16467150 UberAlias said:
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
10 years? Very doubtful.
Then they aren't the guy. Because for a true franchise QB --that's what you're looking for. We shouldn't be looking for a caretaker.
I think predicting anyone for a ten year career is crazy. That type of career - ten years with the same team - is highly unusual. If the player earns it, great. But if you're seeking it as the GM (or in the Giants' case, the owner) - you might end up paying a total zero at QB $160M.
The guy that actually deserves to be a 10 year starter in one place is very, very rare.
ben, rivers, eli all made it 15+ years winning a ton of games and none were ever "elite".
brees was undersized and made it almost 20.
rodgers has generally been injury prone and he's still made it almost 20.
peyton and brady obviously.
russ is undersized and still been one of the most durable QBs of this era now on year 13.
mahomes is entering 8.
stafford has gotten abused in his career and has limited mobility - he won his SB in year 13 and is entering year 16.
burrow and herbert are entering year 6. would anyone pass on burrow even though he's ended 2/6 on IR?
those are the big hits in the last 2 decades. those are the picks everyone is praying to emulate when they select a QB in round 1.
the risk of picking QBs is higher than any other position but the reward is also higher, and one of the key aspects of that is shelf live. most other positions deteriorate quicker than QBs bc they are more athleticism dependent whereas QBs can still play well deep into their 30's. cousins just got a 4 year deal entering his a36 off a torn achilles.
The guy that actually deserves to be a 10 year starter in one place is very, very rare.
right because replacing him has proven to be so simple. with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, how many 1st round qbs were they on the clock for that worked out in the 10 drafts total? 2? herbert and allen? so probably 2/20 first rounders or something like that.
remember when your theory was disposable athletic qbs on rookie contracts and never paying any qb on a 2nd contract? adjusting from a 5 year plan to a 10 year plan is progress, one day you'll get all the way to what's obvious to the rest of civilization and that finding the next qb is a lot harder when you have to do it for real instead of pretend.
Why would they pass on a QB like Penix who everyone is discounting because of the injuries (which have not been an issue for 2 years) who is arguably the best deep passer in this class?
There is not a better match than the Raiders taking Penix in the first. If the Giants plan is to take a WR at #6 and then trade back up for a QB, they will need to get ahead of the Raiders at #13 to do it. Getting from #47 to #12 will obviously cost a lot.
Their new OC Nagy comes from a west coast offensive coaching tree. O'Connell fits that style. O'Connell last 4 games of 2023 produced 860 yards passing with 8 tds and 0 ints. He looked like it was clicking for him. Recent reports suggest they are zeroing in on OT or CB for pick 13, not going QB. This whole Penix to the Raiders at 13 thing isn't really what the Raider Nation is thinking at all.
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In comment 16467208 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16467150 UberAlias said:
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
Not taking a QB this year and they may get fired
Is that what you want? A weak GM drafting out of fear and self preservation? The goal is to win championships, and this (advocating desperation drafting) is not a convincing argument.
It's a matter of fact, look around the league. Another crappy year with Jones and at minimum Brian Daboll is gone, and it really wouldn't surprise me if Schoen went too.
Sell wins or sell hope
Except what you're selling is desperation, and I'm not buying.
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In comment 16467165 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16467150 UberAlias said:
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
10 years? Very doubtful.
Then they aren't the guy. Because for a true franchise QB --that's what you're looking for. We shouldn't be looking for a caretaker.
I think predicting anyone for a ten year career is crazy. That type of career - ten years with the same team - is highly unusual. If the player earns it, great. But if you're seeking it as the GM (or in the Giants' case, the owner) - you might end up paying a total zero at QB $160M.
If you're drafting a QB inside the top 10, it had better
be a for guy you see yourself wishing to sign to a second contract. Because the goal is to win superbowls, and superbowl caliber QBs get extended. Everything else is just buying time.
He is very well liked by the Raider Nation. I really don't think they go Penix at 13, if anything that's AP's talk about QBs is with hope to have more QBs go ahead of them. O'Connell and Minshew is solid. If O'Connell doesn't keep emerging, then they can put in Minshew. The one team I wonder about is Seattle for Penix. I think they will see what they got in Howell while riding the Geno Smith wagon though.
Also, O'Connell basically didn't throw in the 2nd half of that Chargers game. They had 3 defensive touchdowns I believe it was and AP respectfully took his foot off the petal. The 250 yards and 4tds were all in the first half for O'Connell.
For all the very valid criticisms of McAdoo, Shurmur, Garrett, and Daboll -- they all have examples of getting the most out of QBs.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume Darnold, Allen, Jackson, Lock, Tua, Herbert, Hurts, Fields, Pickett, and Levis would have put the same number of wins or more on the board that Manning and/or Jones have.
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The way it turned out the Giants (and Eli himself) would have been better served to trade him around 2013/2014. The 4/$84M contract he got in 2015 ended up being a big mistake. You'd say similar things about Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh and Rivers in San Diego.
The guy that actually deserves to be a 10 year starter in one place is very, very rare.
right because replacing him has proven to be so simple. with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, how many 1st round qbs were they on the clock for that worked out in the 10 drafts total? 2? herbert and allen? so probably 2/20 first rounders or something like that.
remember when your theory was disposable athletic qbs on rookie contracts and never paying any qb on a 2nd contract? adjusting from a 5 year plan to a 10 year plan is progress, one day you'll get all the way to what's obvious to the rest of civilization and that finding the next qb is a lot harder when you have to do it for real instead of pretend.
They haven't really tried to replace him. They tried to clone him.