Peter Schrager has many connections throughout the NFL and especially in the New York market. He is well-informed and knowledgeable.
This is the first mock draft revealed in his podcast.
1. Chi Caleb William
2. Wash Jayden Daniels
3. NE Drake Maye
4. NYG JJ Mccarthy (Trade with Ari #4 pick for #6, #70, and 2025 2nd round pick)
5. LAC Marvin Harrison jr
6. Ari Rome Odunze
What you guys think?
I think Maye and McCarthy could both be in play depending on how things break.
My guess is you’re wrong.
Schrager is one guy I tend to pay attention to with the Giants.
I agree that that feels less expensive than expected.
Maybe for #3 they would. Depends how AZ views the WRs.
I would be surprised if the Giants didn't stay at 6.
Not according to these guys who have nailed previous first round trade ups for QBs:
This is actually more than they predict, they say 2025 2nd and pick 107 - ( New Window )
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Grit and other asshats said that the Giants wouldn't event take JJM at #6. My guess is they are more likely to be correct than Schrager.
Schrager is one guy I tend to pay attention to with the Giants.
Interesting, even GiantGrit said they're doing a great job keeping everyone guessing and that some info is good some is bad.
Any of the top 6 QBs and I'll be thrilled. Take a swing. Try.
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At least a two this year and next. Possibly next year’s 1.
Not according to these guys who have nailed previous first round trade ups for QBs:
This is actually more than they predict, they say 2025 2nd and pick 107 - ( New Window )
Yes. This doesn’t feel like an underpay to me. Could it be a bit more? Possibly. But let's face it. It's moving up two spots to get the 4th QB in the draft. The Vikings want Maye. I don't get the sense they are opening the war chest for McCarthy. The Cardinals only serious dance partner might be the Giants.
The Chargers would be the concern, if you really like the guy you make this move.
JJM with this current group of receivers has fail written all over it....
JJM with this current group of receivers has fail written all over it....
JJM has never had special receivers. Solid yes, but never special.
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But again I have to ask, how are Maye and McCarthy at trade up cost better than Penix (or Nix) at 6 with no trade up cost? I just don't see it.
Any of the top 6 QBs and I'll be thrilled. Take a swing. Try.
Definitely. I'll take a trade for a QB over any WR.
It's not even clear MHJ is the best player at his position in this draft never mind best player. He's not the best player. Teams in line to draft him are looking to trade down. And those teams desperately need wide receivers. That's not what teams do when facing the prospect of drafting the best player. You know what teams do when they have the best player in front of them? They don't waver and pick him.
The best player is Caleb Williams who has been the presumptive first pick for almost a year and a half. If Caleb Williams turns out to be merely good, and MHJ is the second coming of Julio Jones, Caleb Williams will *only* be twice as valuable as MHJ. If Williams turns out to be a star, he'll be at least 3x as valuable as MHJ. That's how much more important a QB is than a WR.
Umm, Schrager is definitely an insider in the NFL- do not discount him..
Again, your personal preference is Penix regardless of the red flags. I still say JJM would be viewed much more highly had he played in Washington's system with those WR's but I doubt the same would be said if Penix played at Michigan..
Him and Glazer are the two to pay attention to.
Shows why you'll never be an NFL GM.
STUPID!!!
But if Schoen and Daboll like JJ enough to take him, I would trust their judgement.
STUPID!!!
I second that emotion
Agree completely. A team with this many holes should not waste draft picks to get a developmental QB.
JJM with this current group of receivers has fail written all over it....
If you pick a QB, you pick him for his potential over the next dozen years, not what his potential is with Hodgson, lol. How many different receivers did Eli play with?
If it is McCarthy, I hope BD/MK follow the Michigan blueprint of building a very good running game with mostly the RB's.
There are maybe six or seven good prospects to choose from and none really stand out. So many on this site have the top 4 QB's in Canton already. Maye and McCarthy are getting better by the day based on nothing they did on the field . Keep our picks and take Penix at six . His arm talent alone is enough for me .
There are maybe six or seven good prospects to choose from and none really stand out. So many on this site have the top 4 QB's in Canton already. Maye and McCarthy are getting better by the day based on nothing they did on the field . Keep our picks and take Penix at six . His arm talent alone is enough for me .
I can get behind this.
1. Chi Caleb William
2. Wash Jayden Daniels
3. NE Drake Maye
4. Minn JJ Mccarthy (Trade with Ari #4 pick)
5. LAC Marvin Harrison jr
6. NYG Rome Odunze
The Cardinals have so many picks this year, I expect them to be looking for picks next year.
I still think it takes the 2025 number one, but I'd draw the line at that.
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And I don't think any are worth trading up for. It's all hype.
There are maybe six or seven good prospects to choose from and none really stand out. So many on this site have the top 4 QB's in Canton already. Maye and McCarthy are getting better by the day based on nothing they did on the field . Keep our picks and take Penix at six . His arm talent alone is enough for me .
I can get behind this.
I endorse this thought process. I would like a QB and I see no reason we can't stay at 6 and see who of Maye, McCarthy + Penix and Nix are there.
My personal options are staying at 6 and weighing all available QB and WR options there.
Entertaining trade down offers for additional picks.
People are so fed up with Jones there is this QB or die temperature right now, but Schoen has to keep a more level head than that. Mostly all of us want a new a QB and some hope, we just can't be stupid about it.
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But again I have to ask, how are Maye and McCarthy at trade up cost better than Penix (or Nix) at 6 with no trade up cost? I just don't see it.
This is what I'm thinking. Sit tight, I think one will be available.
That only works if you view all the QBs as similar - unlikely to me. If JS has conviction about one of them and can make a reasonable move to get him, make the move and eliminate the risk of someone else trading in front of you.
There are maybe six or seven good prospects to choose from and none really stand out. So many on this site have the top 4 QB's in Canton already. Maye and McCarthy are getting better by the day based on nothing they did on the field . Keep our picks and take Penix at six . His arm talent alone is enough for me .
None out of 6 or 7 QB prospects stand out? Unlikely, more likely that teams have them graded in some kind of tiers and would prefer 1 or maybe a couple if they dropped to them. Doesn't mean that JS isn't willing to see where things stand after the first 2 picks, but I can't believe he doesn't have a preference.
Why?
Drake Maye is?
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Why?
Drake Maye is?
Yes. Maye is a far superior pro prospect than Penix.
Jones was a walk-on at Duke. Was a one-read QB.
Only Gettleman, Snyder and maybe Elway were interested in him. That's not good FO company.
JJM has a much better pedigree.
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Why?
Drake Maye is?
It's a tool box game. You know that.
And Maye has more plus tools than Penix. So, if you project off that, which I do (plus production, etc), Maye is the better prospect right now.
That's not to say that he'll ultimately be better than Penix, but there is more there to develop.
I’d be all for this trade. I’m not entirely convinced that JJM is the guy, but if Schoen and Daboll are, I’m on board.
Jones was a walk-on at Duke. Was a one-read QB.
Only Gettleman, Snyder and maybe Elway were interested in him. That's not good FO company.
JJM has a much better pedigree.
I think most agree that JJM is a better prospect than Jones, it’s just that some aren’t convinced he’s a difference maker.
Jones was a walk-on at Duke. Was a one-read QB.
Only Gettleman, Snyder and maybe Elway were interested in him. That's not good FO company.
JJM has a much better pedigree.
So I have been critical of JJM, but he is absolutely a better prospect than Jones. The question is whether or not he is a franchise QB or a guy you are constantly going to be hoping to take that next step and never does. To me, he is more of a projection than most of the other top tier QBs in this class.
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as a much better QB prospect than Jones.
Jones was a walk-on at Duke. Was a one-read QB.
Only Gettleman, Snyder and maybe Elway were interested in him. That's not good FO company.
JJM has a much better pedigree.
So I have been critical of JJM, but he is absolutely a better prospect than Jones. The question is whether or not he is a franchise QB or a guy you are constantly going to be hoping to take that next step and never does. To me, he is more of a projection than most of the other top tier QBs in this class.
I would sat Maye is a bigger project.
Trading up for JJM though would be an epic fail of galactic proportions. This has to be a ploy by Schrager, maybe to get the Vikings to trade up? They can't be that stupid, but who knows, maybe they can...
Is faster than Jones
Can make all the throws unlike Jones
Reads defenses better than Jones
They are not alike at all and any comparison made between them is just lazy or just not understanding the position.
McCarthy is still QB 4 in this draft behind Williams, Daniels, and Maye - but he is a much much better prospect than Jones ever was.
I am simply saying his rightful draft position is late first, early second round, just like DJ should have been. Time will tell. I am definitely in the Greg Cosell camp on this one. And I definitely don't think he should be in play as a top ten pick. Would much rather have Penix - even at six.
Trading up for JJM though would be an epic fail of galactic proportions. This has to be a ploy by Schrager, maybe to get the Vikings to trade up? They can't be that stupid, but who knows, maybe they can...
JJM is a much better prospect than DJ. He's also much more talented. JJM is more accurate, has a bigger arm, better processor, better off platform, better navigating the pocket than DJ was coming out of college.
I cant think of a single thing other that they are white mobile QBs that makes them comparable.
I agree that if we draft McCarthy at #6 or > it's another over-draft like Jones.
But McCarthy is a better prospect than Jones. Better arm, better off-script, better pedigree, better athlete.
So, if we go that route, at least Daboll will have a more talented prospect to develop and mold.
Trading up for JJM though would be an epic fail of galactic proportions. This has to be a ploy by Schrager, maybe to get the Vikings to trade up? They can't be that stupid, but who knows, maybe they can...
This is really just your opinion stated as fact with lots of hyperbole mixed in.
Tennessee at pick 7 is worth (1500) and pick 38 (520), and they need a tackle, so unless they want to trade up to keep someone like maybe the Jets from jumping them, it's not likely worth it to them. But it would make sense for the Giants. It makes more sense for Tennessee to trade down with the Jets, who will be looking to grab a top WR for Rogers. So, this is unlikely.
At pick #8, Atlanta is likely to stay pat and take a top edge.
At pick #9, Chicago is looking for an OL to protect their new QB or one of the top WRs. Assuming Ariz and LAC go for WRs, they would be interested in trading with the Giants for last of the top 3 WRs or a top OL. Unfortunately, they only have picks 9, 75, and 122 in this year's draft. That's 1615 pts, and not enough to lose out on a top WR, unless they throw in next year's draft slot. So, this is probably unlikely.
At pick #10, the Jets would be willing to go for one of the top WRs, but they only have 1660 pts in this year's draft, positions 10, 72, 111, 132, 185, 256, and 257. They would need to throw in something from next year's draft, too. Unlikely, but possible.
At pick #11 (1270), Minnesota can offer up pick #23 (760) for a total of 2030 pts and secure QB4. That prevents other QB needy teams from jumping them. It's overkill for Minny, but it's what the Giants would want to keep from losing out on their top 3 WRs. The Giants could still go TE, OL, CB, DL, or QB.
At pick 12, Denver would love to get a QB, but they only have 1584 in this year's draft. They don't have the ammunition, unless they include next year's as well. So they are unlikely.
At pick 13, the Raiders are a viable trade down partner if the Giants are willing to drop that far. 13(1150), 44(460), 77(205), and 112(70).
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Only because of his championship pedigree. Talent wise, he is essentially the same guy. A middling talent with a limited ceiling. Selecting him at six would be essentially repeating the same mistake as 2019, eerily on the same day (April 25) and at the same draft position (6), but made worse simply because it will have revealed that the organization had learned nothing from the 2019 mistake. Which, after listening to yesterday's laughable DJ press conference, may very well be the case.
I agree that if we draft McCarthy at #6 or > it's another over-draft like Jones.
But McCarthy is a better prospect than Jones. Better arm, better off-script, better pedigree, better athlete.
So, if we go that route, at least Daboll will have a more talented prospect to develop and mold.
Fair enough. But who isn't a better prospect than DJ knowing what we now know? The idea though that we are even contemplating "over drafting" a quarterback again could not be more nauseating...
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Only because of his championship pedigree. Talent wise, he is essentially the same guy. A middling talent with a limited ceiling. Selecting him at six would be essentially repeating the same mistake as 2019, eerily on the same day (April 25) and at the same draft position (6), but made worse simply because it will have revealed that the organization had learned nothing from the 2019 mistake. Which, after listening to yesterday's laughable DJ press conference, may very well be the case.
Trading up for JJM though would be an epic fail of galactic proportions. This has to be a ploy by Schrager, maybe to get the Vikings to trade up? They can't be that stupid, but who knows, maybe they can...
JJM is a much better prospect than DJ. He's also much more talented. JJM is more accurate, has a bigger arm, better processor, better off platform, better navigating the pocket than DJ was coming out of college.
100%
Count me out on drafting JJ at six - and utterly disgusted if they even contemplate trading up for him. I have no problem trading back up into the first round for him if he is still available after we either take Maye/Daniels or one of the WRs at six. But let's be clear - JJ is a definitive reach at six.
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And there are plenty of people who like JJM (Sy included).
Count me out on drafting JJ at six - and utterly disgusted if they even contemplate trading up for him. I have no problem trading back up into the first round for him if he is still available after we either take Maye/Daniels or one of the WRs at six. But let's be clear - JJ is a definitive reach at six.
To you he is, but many respected pros don't think so. He's Randy Mueller's 6th ranked overall prospect. He's higher rated for Sy than several previous #1 picks. Next year he would very likely be the #1 pick.
I get that is your opinion, but you speak so authoratively about something that many actual pros don't agree, it's hilarious.
Fair enough. But who isn't a better prospect than DJ knowing what we now know? The idea though that we are even contemplating "over drafting" a quarterback again could not be more nauseating...
Like I suggested, I wouldn't feel great about McCarthy at #6, either. I just want a more talented player at QB than Jones.
The more interesting angle for me is trusting Schoen to make the next QB decision. After the way he managed the Jones contract/outcome, that should make everyone concerned to some level.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
He obviously has a strong arm but it is pretty clear that his “arm talent” is not nearly as high as Maye or Williams.
I'm not big on Maye, but I still see his potential and understand the proponents of his that believe in him. I see both sides. Maye has plenty of pros that don't like him much at all (Mueller, Chris Simms, etc.). The same posters that speak like authoritative figures about JJM love Maye yet you don't see anyone battling against them acting like their perspectives are definitive expert facts.
I think a lot of these anti-JJM guys just can't get the idea out of their heads that JJM isn't similar to DJ at all other than them both being white. And it really triggers them.
I greatly look forward to seeing how all these QBs pan out, hopefully we get a good one because if Schoen doesn't take a swing I guarantee he will miss out on a franchise QB or two.
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
Ok, so basically you disagreeing with every scouting report. Penix is viewed as 2nd round prospect by the majority of draft experts.
Why is my opinion on him somehow different?
Not sure anybody outside of that Jack Stroud poster thinks this.
JJM is a better prospect but still looks likes a mistake at #6 overall. He’s a dog with different fleas as Gekko would say.
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In comment 16470394 ryanmkeane said:
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Why?
Drake Maye is?
It's a tool box game. You know that.
And Maye has more plus tools than Penix. So, if you project off that, which I do (plus production, etc), Maye is the better prospect right now.
That's not to say that he'll ultimately be better than Penix, but there is more there to develop.
It's not just a toolbox game, the distinguishing factor amongst all the best QBs vs the rest is how their minds operate.
So many QBs can sling the ball and are big and strong and athletic enough. They don't make it. Why? Because it's not just about their arm and physical attributes.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
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In comment 16470394 ryanmkeane said:
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
Ok, so basically you disagreeing with every scouting report. Penix is viewed as 2nd round prospect by the majority of draft experts.
Why is my opinion on him somehow different?
"Every scouting report" is a broad generalization, and have you personally scouted Penix? Meaning, watched more than a few YouTube highlights? Have you talked to his coaches? I would guess not. That's why a definitive take like yours is foolish.
I watched at least 4 full Washington games on TV this year (2 playoff and 2 regular season) and came away impressed, but I'm not a professional at this so what do I know about how his future prospects are. Would I be happy if they drafted Penix, yes. Would I be upset if they passed on him, no.
My point being is, this site has a lot of posters who state their opinions as fact, your statement falls into this bucket.
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In comment 16470679 aimrocky said:
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In comment 16470394 ryanmkeane said:
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
Ok, so basically you disagreeing with every scouting report. Penix is viewed as 2nd round prospect by the majority of draft experts.
Why is my opinion on him somehow different?
"Every scouting report" is a broad generalization, and have you personally scouted Penix? Meaning, watched more than a few YouTube highlights? Have you talked to his coaches? I would guess not. That's why a definitive take like yours is foolish.
I watched at least 4 full Washington games on TV this year (2 playoff and 2 regular season) and came away impressed, but I'm not a professional at this so what do I know about how his future prospects are. Would I be happy if they drafted Penix, yes. Would I be upset if they passed on him, no.
My point being is, this site has a lot of posters who state their opinions as fact, your statement falls into this bucket.
Penix is #3 qb definitively without the injury history. I think (and hope) he can be had for pick 47 or trade up to somewhere between the end of rd1 to pick 47. If we take Odunze at 6. Which is likely, then I will he praying we get Penix somewhere in that range.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Well a lot of posters here aren’t professional scouts. There are many professional scouts who view him as top 10 and they know a helluva lot more football than the majority of posters here.
Yeah, obviously I am not a professional scout. Who gives a fuck. This is a message board and I'm stating my opinion that he won't be a great NFL QB.
To me he's in the Andy Dalton camp. Pretty solid quarterback.
But let's be realistic about what we're getting. Both Maye and JJM are developmental guys, but for different reasons. Maye can be erratic and needs to fix mechanical issues. JJM needs to hit the gym and add body mass and work on deep ball and sideline delivery.
It's not just a toolbox game, the distinguishing factor amongst all the best QBs vs the rest is how their minds operate.
So many QBs can sling the ball and are big and strong and athletic enough. They don't make it. Why? Because it's not just about their arm and physical attributes.
I agree to an extent. A quick minded QB might see the big opportunity down the field, but he might not have the arm talent to execute the play at a high rate of success. Chad Pennington had a terrific football mind, but he had an arm that should have landed him a endorsement deal with Ramen Noodle.
But as I have mentioned many times, good luck figuring cerebral part out. That's the art part of the evaluator's job. I don't think anyone knows until it's gametime for a regular season game.
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In comment 16470394 ryanmkeane said:
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
Ok, so basically you disagreeing with every scouting report. Penix is viewed as 2nd round prospect by the majority of draft experts.
Why is my opinion on him somehow different?
Waldman has him as QB2 in this class. The Giants also don’t seem to be scouting him like a guy the like if he slides to 47.
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Based on "rankings" I think that McCarthy at 6 would be a pretty significant reach. Lots of posters feel that way.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Well a lot of posters here aren’t professional scouts. There are many professional scouts who view him as top 10 and they know a helluva lot more football than the majority of posters here.
When you point out a professional option that's the opposite of Ryan's he just says "yeah well they've been wrong before" and then screams Josh Rosen
Yeah, obviously I am not a professional scout. Who gives a fuck. This is a message board and I'm stating my opinion that he won't be a great NFL QB.
To me he's in the Andy Dalton camp. Pretty solid quarterback.
You stated your opinion as fact. Having an opinion on a prospect is fine, but preface it as such. The only reason I called you out is that you have track record of doing this. Don't ask me to "prove it" because I know that is coming. I don't have the time and frankly don't care enough, but you post enough on this board to have this trend noticed.
It's fine if you don't like Penix, but don't tell others who do like him that he is "not a pro prospect". Your take holds the same water as anyone elses.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Who gives a shit if lots of "posters" on a fan message board feel that way? Is that validation?
The NFL scouting/executive community is obviously higher on him than the "posters", so not sure what your argument is.
He may pan out or he may not, but the pick wouldn't be a reach.
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It's not just a toolbox game, the distinguishing factor amongst all the best QBs vs the rest is how their minds operate.
So many QBs can sling the ball and are big and strong and athletic enough. They don't make it. Why? Because it's not just about their arm and physical attributes.
I agree to an extent. A quick minded QB might see the big opportunity down the field, but he might not have the arm talent to execute the play at a high rate of success. Chad Pennington had a terrific football mind, but he had an arm that should have landed him a endorsement deal with Ramen Noodle.
But as I have mentioned many times, good luck figuring cerebral part out. That's the art part of the evaluator's job. I don't think anyone knows until it's gametime for a regular season game.
JJM doesn't have a noodle arm at all though. He has an issue that is correctable just likr Josh Allen did. They had a very similar issue and when Josh Allen corrected that he became an elite QB. Obviously JJM isn't as heavy or tall as Allen, but ultimately they both shared a similar issue with their touch and accuracy on throws 25yards or more in the air. And let's not pretend JJM was awful at this or anything as he was 20/40 for 7 tds and 1int on these throws.
There's a reason many well respected scouts and pros rank JJM ahead of Maye. Im not definitively saying what will happen for Maye. They both are legit prospects. I think Maye has a lower floor and there is a reason NE might not pick Maye and trade with us. There are a lot of question marks there. Nevertheless, I keep an open mind to his positives and his potential and I'm not sure why many here can't do the same for JJM.
I'll put it this way. Would you like JJM if he was able to evolve his throwing motion the way Josh Allen did thus improving his release, arm strength, touch and accuracy on intermediate to deep throws? It's the same thing Josh Allen did. So, if JJM made that evolution in the pros like JA did, would you like him then?
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In comment 16470394 ryanmkeane said:
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
Ok, so basically you disagreeing with every scouting report. Penix is viewed as 2nd round prospect by the majority of draft experts.
Why is my opinion on him somehow different?
Majority of draft experts? I’m calling BS on that one. Most have Penix in the 1st round.
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Based on "rankings" I think that McCarthy at 6 would be a pretty significant reach. Lots of posters feel that way.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Who gives a shit if lots of "posters" on a fan message board feel that way? Is that validation?
The NFL scouting/executive community is obviously higher on him than the "posters", so not sure what your argument is.
He may pan out or he may not, but the pick wouldn't be a reach.
You are right Ryan, Chris is clearly stating opinion as fact here.
The NFL scouting community is definitively undecided re JJM. Cosell thinks little of him and Kiper says he is a reach as a top ten quarterback. And until recently, the consensus on JJM was that he had a late second round grade by a vast majority of NFL scouts. My guess is he is being bantered about as subterfuge to entice a foolish GM to make the mistake of over drafting him. Let's hope that Schoen is the one who has been creating the subterfuge and not the one playing the fool next week.
There are maybe six or seven good prospects to choose from and none really stand out. So many on this site have the top 4 QB's in Canton already. Maye and McCarthy are getting better by the day based on nothing they did on the field . Keep our picks and take Penix at six . His arm talent alone is enough for me .
Joe, can't it be argued that your take is just a different path to overvaluing a QB, i.e., a lesser QB but @ 6 with no other picks foregone? Weren't most of us, and many of the 'experts', thinking Penix could be had in 2nd or maybe trade back into late 1st? That is to say, getting better by the day.
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In comment 16470701 ryanmkeane said:
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Based on "rankings" I think that McCarthy at 6 would be a pretty significant reach. Lots of posters feel that way.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Who gives a shit if lots of "posters" on a fan message board feel that way? Is that validation?
The NFL scouting/executive community is obviously higher on him than the "posters", so not sure what your argument is.
He may pan out or he may not, but the pick wouldn't be a reach.
You are right Ryan, Chris is clearly stating opinion as fact here.
The NFL scouting community is definitively undecided re JJM. Cosell thinks little of him and Kiper says he is a reach as a top ten quarterback. And until recently, the consensus on JJM was that he had a late second round grade by a vast majority of NFL scouts. My guess is he is being bantered about as subterfuge to entice a foolish GM to make the mistake of over drafting him. Let's hope that Schoen is the one who has been creating the subterfuge and not the one playing the fool next week.
Yeah Chris Simms. Randy Mueller and Sy are all just fools yet you are smart enough to see through all this "subterfuge". Lol
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In comment 16470750 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16470701 ryanmkeane said:
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Based on "rankings" I think that McCarthy at 6 would be a pretty significant reach. Lots of posters feel that way.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Who gives a shit if lots of "posters" on a fan message board feel that way? Is that validation?
The NFL scouting/executive community is obviously higher on him than the "posters", so not sure what your argument is.
He may pan out or he may not, but the pick wouldn't be a reach.
You are right Ryan, Chris is clearly stating opinion as fact here.
The NFL scouting community is definitively undecided re JJM. Cosell thinks little of him and Kiper says he is a reach as a top ten quarterback. And until recently, the consensus on JJM was that he had a late second round grade by a vast majority of NFL scouts. My guess is he is being bantered about as subterfuge to entice a foolish GM to make the mistake of over drafting him. Let's hope that Schoen is the one who has been creating the subterfuge and not the one playing the fool next week.
Yeah Chris Simms. Randy Mueller and Sy are all just fools yet you are smart enough to see through all this "subterfuge". Lol
Or they are creating the subterfuge and you are the fool...
However, anyone saying he's not a better prospect than Jones was is flat out wrong. He's won at every level he's played, has a stronger arm, is more mobile in the pocket, and is more athletic.
My preference after Caleb and Daniels is Maye, but I would not be disappointed with JJM at all.
We aren't trading up for McCarthy. Just a guess. Which is what PS just did.
I look forward to the posts that say someone knew it all along. No they didn't. They just got lucky.
Garafolo would be the guy to pay attention to.
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In comment 16470777 The Mike said:
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In comment 16470750 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16470701 ryanmkeane said:
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Based on "rankings" I think that McCarthy at 6 would be a pretty significant reach. Lots of posters feel that way.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Who gives a shit if lots of "posters" on a fan message board feel that way? Is that validation?
The NFL scouting/executive community is obviously higher on him than the "posters", so not sure what your argument is.
He may pan out or he may not, but the pick wouldn't be a reach.
You are right Ryan, Chris is clearly stating opinion as fact here.
The NFL scouting community is definitively undecided re JJM. Cosell thinks little of him and Kiper says he is a reach as a top ten quarterback. And until recently, the consensus on JJM was that he had a late second round grade by a vast majority of NFL scouts. My guess is he is being bantered about as subterfuge to entice a foolish GM to make the mistake of over drafting him. Let's hope that Schoen is the one who has been creating the subterfuge and not the one playing the fool next week.
Yeah Chris Simms. Randy Mueller and Sy are all just fools yet you are smart enough to see through all this "subterfuge". Lol
Or they are creating the subterfuge and you are the fool...
I don't even follow the analysts until I do my own research. I like JJM for the same reasons Sy does. I studied him thoroughly, if I'm wrong it's not because I'm parroting the media and some "subterfuge". I didn't like him when following college football as a casual fan. I liked him after studying him deeply as a prospect.
And what were the findings after examining every draft pick and trade from 1988 to 2004?
Teams massively overestimate their abilities to delineate between stars and flops, and because of that they heavily overvalue the “right to choose” in the draft.
More for the fans here that insist each player they love is going to cure all our woes. Especially QB. You're probably wrong. And that's fine, but the arrogance of some is just tough to take.
Link - ( New Window )
I look forward to the posts that say someone knew it all along. No they didn't. They just got lucky.
Bingo!
Does anyone really give a shit about some medias guy mock draft? They are literally useless.
This is not to say all of the league’s top personnel people are poor evaluators. In fact, there is a line of thinking that the smaller the variation in skill among competitors, the more ripe the situation is for randomness to sway the results.
RANDOMNESS.
In other words, LUCK.
The draft is not a science. It's a fucking crapshoot.
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In comment 16470838 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16470777 The Mike said:
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In comment 16470750 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16470701 ryanmkeane said:
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Based on "rankings" I think that McCarthy at 6 would be a pretty significant reach. Lots of posters feel that way.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Who gives a shit if lots of "posters" on a fan message board feel that way? Is that validation?
The NFL scouting/executive community is obviously higher on him than the "posters", so not sure what your argument is.
He may pan out or he may not, but the pick wouldn't be a reach.
You are right Ryan, Chris is clearly stating opinion as fact here.
The NFL scouting community is definitively undecided re JJM. Cosell thinks little of him and Kiper says he is a reach as a top ten quarterback. And until recently, the consensus on JJM was that he had a late second round grade by a vast majority of NFL scouts. My guess is he is being bantered about as subterfuge to entice a foolish GM to make the mistake of over drafting him. Let's hope that Schoen is the one who has been creating the subterfuge and not the one playing the fool next week.
Yeah Chris Simms. Randy Mueller and Sy are all just fools yet you are smart enough to see through all this "subterfuge". Lol
Or they are creating the subterfuge and you are the fool...
I don't even follow the analysts until I do my own research. I like JJM for the same reasons Sy does. I studied him thoroughly, if I'm wrong it's not because I'm parroting the media and some "subterfuge". I didn't like him when following college football as a casual fan. I liked him after studying him deeply as a prospect.
Fair enough. But it is still an opinion, no better and no worse than anyone else's opinion. Yes, you may have made yourself informed, but even Sy gives JJM the same grade he gave Justin Fields. And I would argue JJM's ceiling is nowhere near as high as Fields - even after witnessing three terrible years in the NFL for Fields.
1. Produced at a very high level.
or
2. Carried their team with a weaker supporting cast.
I get the McCarthy concerns when you look at it from those angles.
1. Produced at a very high level.
or
2. Carried their team with a weaker supporting cast.
I get the McCarthy concerns when you look at it from those angles.
Cowherd sucks. Not pointing you out - but why people listen to him mystifies me. He’s on the same level as Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith.
1. Produced at a very high level.
or
2. Carried their team with a weaker supporting cast.
I get the McCarthy concerns when you look at it from those angles.
Matt Ryan doesn't fall into that, he had 46 tds and 19 ints with 6.5ypa in his Jr and Sr years combined. JJM in his sophomore and jr years had 44 tds and 9 ints with close to 9 ypa.
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In the last ten years, the QBs who hit in the NFL either:
1. Produced at a very high level.
or
2. Carried their team with a weaker supporting cast.
I get the McCarthy concerns when you look at it from those angles.
Cowherd sucks. Not pointing you out - but why people listen to him mystifies me. He’s on the same level as Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith.
Another besides Matt Ryan is Matthew Stafford whom had 44 tds with 20 ints and about 8.1ypa compared to JJMs 44 tds 9 ints and close to 9 ypa.
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In the last ten years, the QBs who hit in the NFL either:
1. Produced at a very high level.
or
2. Carried their team with a weaker supporting cast.
I get the McCarthy concerns when you look at it from those angles.
Cowherd sucks. Not pointing you out - but why people listen to him mystifies me. He’s on the same level as Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith.
Cowherd's observations tend to be better than those other guys.
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In the last ten years, the QBs who hit in the NFL either:
1. Produced at a very high level.
or
2. Carried their team with a weaker supporting cast.
I get the McCarthy concerns when you look at it from those angles.
Cowherd sucks. Not pointing you out - but why people listen to him mystifies me. He’s on the same level as Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith.
Jalen Hurts in his sophomore and senior years (at Alabama and Oklahoma in air raid) had 49 tds with 9ints and about 10ypa.
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In comment 16471011 Sean said:
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In the last ten years, the QBs who hit in the NFL either:
1. Produced at a very high level.
or
2. Carried their team with a weaker supporting cast.
I get the McCarthy concerns when you look at it from those angles.
Cowherd sucks. Not pointing you out - but why people listen to him mystifies me. He’s on the same level as Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith.
Cowherd's observations tend to be better than those other guys.
Josh Allen had 44 tds with 21 ints and about 7.7 ypa in the mountain west conference his sophomore and junior years.
1. Produced at a very high level.
or
2. Carried their team with a weaker supporting cast.
I get the McCarthy concerns when you look at it from those angles.
Carson Palmer had 46 tds and 22 ints with about 7.5 ypa his junior and senior years, much worse if you do sophomore and junior years (29 tds 30ints with 6.2ypa).
1. Produced at a very high level.
or
2. Carried their team with a weaker supporting cast.
I get the McCarthy concerns when you look at it from those angles.
Eli Manning had 50 tds 25 ints and 7.5ypa in his junior and senior years
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In the last ten years, the QBs who hit in the NFL either:
1. Produced at a very high level.
or
2. Carried their team with a weaker supporting cast.
I get the McCarthy concerns when you look at it from those angles.
Cowherd sucks. Not pointing you out - but why people listen to him mystifies me. He’s on the same level as Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith.
+1
Yeah, that’s the ticket.
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But again I have to ask, how are Maye and McCarthy at trade up cost better than Penix (or Nix) at 6 with no trade up cost? I just don't see it.
I prefer McCarthy to Maye but don’t want to trade up unless the cost is low. At the beginning of this, I wanted to trade up at all cost. I have fallen for all 3 WRs. I would rather give Lock a shot(i like him more than most here) than blow all our draft capital moving up. Secure the WR first and THEN I would give ALOT for Penix too. If I can get Penix and a WR this year.
Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Odunze and Penix is my dream first two picks.
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But again I have to ask, how are Maye and McCarthy at trade up cost better than Penix (or Nix) at 6 with no trade up cost? I just don't see it.
I prefer McCarthy to Maye but don’t want to trade up unless the cost is low. At the beginning of this, I wanted to trade up at all cost. I have fallen for all 3 WRs. I would rather give Lock a shot(i like him more than most here) than blow all our draft capital moving up. Secure the WR first and THEN I would give ALOT for Penix too. If I can get Penix and a WR this year.
Yeah, that’s the ticket.
I would hope if Schoen wanted to do that he would have some kind of intel that Penix would make it to the end of rd1. Otherwise I'd prefer JJM at 6 or via slight tradeup, or Maye if they're totally sold on him.
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And I don't think any are worth trading up for. It's all hype.
There are maybe six or seven good prospects to choose from and none really stand out. So many on this site have the top 4 QB's in Canton already. Maye and McCarthy are getting better by the day based on nothing they did on the field . Keep our picks and take Penix at six . His arm talent alone is enough for me .
Joe, can't it be argued that your take is just a different path to overvaluing a QB, i.e., a lesser QB but @ 6 with no other picks foregone? Weren't most of us, and many of the 'experts', thinking Penix could be had in 2nd or maybe trade back into late 1st? That is to say, getting better by the day.
I am not hyping Penix. At one time JJM was considered a 3rd rounder. I see all the QB's as basically good but not great prospects and prefer Penix . After his clean medicals and good combine I believe most see him going top 15 .
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In comment 16470401 averagejoe said:
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And I don't think any are worth trading up for. It's all hype.
There are maybe six or seven good prospects to choose from and none really stand out. So many on this site have the top 4 QB's in Canton already. Maye and McCarthy are getting better by the day based on nothing they did on the field . Keep our picks and take Penix at six . His arm talent alone is enough for me .
Joe, can't it be argued that your take is just a different path to overvaluing a QB, i.e., a lesser QB but @ 6 with no other picks foregone? Weren't most of us, and many of the 'experts', thinking Penix could be had in 2nd or maybe trade back into late 1st? That is to say, getting better by the day.
I am not hyping Penix. At one time JJM was considered a 3rd rounder. I see all the QB's as basically good but not great prospects and prefer Penix . After his clean medicals and good combine I believe most see him going top 15 .
I don't think most see him as going top 15. He's the biggest wildcard of rd1 due to his medical history. Could go anywhere from pick 6 to rd2 or later. If we take Odunze, im going to be nervously watching every pick after for Penix to slide within reach of us.
With this recent love affair with Penix, I have a feeling if he and Mrs. Terps have another kid, and it's a boy, we should expect Penix Terps.
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In comment 16470401 averagejoe said:
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And I don't think any are worth trading up for. It's all hype.
There are maybe six or seven good prospects to choose from and none really stand out. So many on this site have the top 4 QB's in Canton already. Maye and McCarthy are getting better by the day based on nothing they did on the field . Keep our picks and take Penix at six . His arm talent alone is enough for me .
Joe, can't it be argued that your take is just a different path to overvaluing a QB, i.e., a lesser QB but @ 6 with no other picks foregone? Weren't most of us, and many of the 'experts', thinking Penix could be had in 2nd or maybe trade back into late 1st? That is to say, getting better by the day.
I am not hyping Penix. At one time JJM was considered a 3rd rounder. I see all the QB's as basically good but not great prospects and prefer Penix . After his clean medicals and good combine I believe most see him going top 15 .
He was projected anywhere from.pick 13 to 2nd round before he declared.
Never saw anything about 3rd round - ( New Window )