I love both Odunze and Nabers as prospects. They are both elite. Nevertheless, I can't help but think it would not be wise taking one of them at 6 when we have needs at QB, CB, DL, TE, S, RB, OL and more. What good does a WR do when we have so many holes on the roster and a big question mark at QB?
We could get Odunze and Melton in the first 2 rounds or we could get Fautanu, Orhorhoro, Melton, and Benson just as an example.
I say if Schoen can't or doesn't get a QB with pick 6 then he needs to tradedown, perhaps multiple times. This is a very strong draft in the top 100. Either get a QB via pick 6 or stack picks in the top 100 and properly build the roster.
We assume it isn't weird for the Cardinals and Chargers, two teams with a desperate need for WRs, to pass on the top three. But somehow it would be for the Giants.
The strength of this draft is WR (with a clear top-3) and we have a glaring need for a WR1.
Sometimes the match is that easy and so don't overthink this Joe.
I do hope if they don’t get a QB in the draft who can play this year, we at least get Lock under center. I think he will try to get the ball downfield which is something Jones doesn’t do. If you get a weapon like one of these guys you have to try and use it, especially if they draft a rookie in 2025 and that guy may also sit for a chunk of the year. Suddenly you have a lethal weapon at WR and for the first two years hold him back with below average QB play.
The strength of this draft is WR (with a clear top-3) and we have a glaring need for a WR1.
Sometimes the match is that easy and so don't overthink this Joe.
Actually, I would argue that quality WRs are coming out in ever increasing numbers.
The strength of this draft is WR (with a clear top-3) and we have a glaring need for a WR1.
Sometimes the match is that easy and so don't overthink this Joe.
Yeah, that's completely true. The draft is about long term roster building, not just 2024. You don't think taking 4 players in the top 50 instead of 2 could very reasonably help our roster much more?
Bill Walsh I believe it was who said WR is like the icing on the cake of a good football roster. Build the lines first, then QB/defense, then skill positions.
You're telling me you think Odunze and Melton would help this team in the long term more than Orhorhoro, Melton, Troy Franklin and Fautanu or Orhorhoro, Benson, Melton and Fautanu or Brian Thomas Jr, Beebe, Melton and Orhorhoro? This draft is really good in the top 100. I would much rather have 6-7 picks in the top 107 vs Odunze and picks 47, 70 and 107. I think it would definitely help the team much more in the long term too.
All those guys had QBs that put up more than a td per game. It's not a valid comparison. What had Garrett Wilson done to open up the Jets offense? That's a legit comparison.
2022: London and G Wilson - London looks to be an overdraft, Wilson was the right pick stuck in a bad situation
2021: Chase, Waddle, D Smith - instant impact pro bowl caliber WRs who have helped their teams to playoff runs
So, out of those 5, you could argue 4 of them are great picks. That's a pretty good outcome.
Wilson had 1,000 yards with Zach Wilson throwing him the ball.
The strength of this draft is WR (with a clear top-3) and we have a glaring need for a WR1.
Sometimes the match is that easy and so don't overthink this Joe.
Amen to that brother!
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Stud WR or TE can open up an offensive. Tyreek Hill, Diggs, Chase, Jefferson, Kelce, AJ Brown have done wonders for their teams.
All those guys had QBs that put up more than a td per game. It's not a valid comparison. What had Garrett Wilson done to open up the Jets offense? That's a legit comparison.
This is a very valid point. This is a great example of a very good WR being underutilized because the QB sucks.
I still am in favor of a WR at #6, just not with Jones under center.
Brian Thomas Jr. at 11-15 would be my preference if we go WR. We can obtain an extra second rounder and get an alpha type WR.
Again, what has Garrett Wilson done for the Jets offense? An elite receiver is great for a team ready to utilize one or at least without half their positions with holes on the roster. I just don't think it's smart with our roster currently. Build the trenches, build the team from the inside out. CB and the trenches are more important than WR to me when you have no credible passing threat.
Mike Mcdaniel thought it was important to get Hill, Shanahan has both Deebo, Aiyuk, and Kittle. Ryans just traded for Diggs.
What position would be a smarter move at 6, where elite prospect is available at a value position?
2022: London and G Wilson - London looks to be an overdraft, Wilson was the right pick stuck in a bad situation
2021: Chase, Waddle, D Smith - instant impact pro bowl caliber WRs who have helped their teams to playoff runs
So, out of those 5, you could argue 4 of them are great picks. That's a pretty good outcome.
Notice the ones that haven't paid off are the ones without legit QB play? Build the roster from the inside out with a focus on defense and the trenches until we are ready to build up the passing game. Right now, we aren't ready for that step if you ask me.
Wilson had 1,000 yards with Zach Wilson throwing him the ball.
25 WRs had 1,000+ yards last year. Finding a 1,000 yard receiver isn’t hard
The Jets offense was still putrid.
Just because we have a need does not make a draft choice a talented player. Certainly if two players are similarly graded, need is the differentiator. But you do not reach for need and neglect best player available. Ever.
Mike Mcdaniel thought it was important to get Hill, Shanahan has both Deebo, Aiyuk, and Kittle. Ryans just traded for Diggs.
Once again, they all have credible QBs. With our roster currently situated would you rather have 4 good players or a great receiver and a good player? Which would help us more in the long term?
That's "All Pro" projection for all 3.
Yes, drafting a WR at 6 is a smart move.
These aren't just any first round receivers.
When it comes to needs, you don't burn high draft capital plugging them. The economics of it in a salary cap league dictate that. A premium first round pick needs to focus on the impact created by the individual pick because it is such a valuable commodity. When it comes to needs, you take the view of the entire draft, as well as free agency and future drafts.
The question here is QB because that's the position where a lesser valued player can have greater impact due to positional value. But the question of QB is where the impact rule doesn't always apply. I see so many people making this mistake --so and so is better than Jones. That may be true and it may be the case that a QB slightly above par could have a greater impact than an elite WR (initially) if you're that down on Jones. But it's not only about this year and if the QB we draft isn't a guy who's going to lead us to championships, then we've set the bar too low.
I continue to think the dime a dozen QBs get overrated because "it's a QB league. It's not. It's a top tier QB league. You don't win championships with mediocrity at QB in the league. Not anymore.
Just because we have a need does not make a draft choice a talented player. Certainly if two players are similarly graded, need is the differentiator. But you do not reach for need and neglect best player available. Ever.
So, you'd want Odunze over pick 11 and 23 from the Vikings? Or Odunze over pick 12, 76, 2025 1st and 2nd from Denver? Or pick 13, 44, 77 and 2025 1st from the Raiders?
Garrett Wilson is a great example. Excellent player and productive in 2023, but his offense was still terrible last year because of the problems at QB and OL.
Bill Walsh himself said WR is the last piece to add. Aaron Rodgers on the short-lived Bill Simmons HBO show said OL was more important to QB success than WR.
Add all that to the fact that college football is producing WRs in huge quantity, and I wonder if there is a market correction coming at the position in the next few years.
Garrett Wilson is a great example. Excellent player and productive in 2023, but his offense was still terrible last year because of the problems at QB and OL.
Bill Walsh himself said WR is the last piece to add. Aaron Rodgers on the short-lived Bill Simmons HBO show said OL was more important to QB success than WR.
Add all that to the fact that college football is producing WRs in huge quantity, and I wonder if there is a market correction coming at the position in the next few years.
Agree with every word of this statement.
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You draft best player available. LT is the greatest positive example of this in NFL history. But in recent years, Josh Allen (edge), Justin Herbert and Micah Parsons are powerful negative examples of the Giants doing things for need rather than just sitting tight and selecting the best player available.
Just because we have a need does not make a draft choice a talented player. Certainly if two players are similarly graded, need is the differentiator. But you do not reach for need and neglect best player available. Ever.
So, you'd want Odunze over pick 11 and 23 from the Vikings? Or Odunze over pick 12, 76, 2025 1st and 2nd from Denver? Or pick 13, 44, 77 and 2025 1st from the Raiders?
As a rule, I would not trade away blue chip quality for red chip quantity. Which is why I would not trade Odunze for the two Vikings picks. However, given where this team is and knowing how bad both the Broncos and Raiders will be in 2024, I would take both of those trades given the massive overpay in draft capital value there, primarily because the 2025 firsts will likely be top ten. Which would likely assure us of getting the quarterback of our choice in 2025.
We assume it isn't weird for the Cardinals and Chargers, two teams with a desperate need for WRs, to pass on the top three. But somehow it would be for the Giants.
Cards and Chargers have an established starter at QB, and the Giants do not.
Trade down for a chance at Penix plus extra picks would be better than that to you no?
Salaries say otherwise.
Garrett Wilson is a great example. Excellent player and productive in 2023, but his offense was still terrible last year because of the problems at QB and OL.
Bill Walsh himself said WR is the last piece to add. Aaron Rodgers on the short-lived Bill Simmons HBO show said OL was more important to QB success than WR.
Add all that to the fact that college football is producing WRs in huge quantity, and I wonder if there is a market correction coming at the position in the next few years.
Good post. It's QB via 6 or trade down for me.
So for me, how far is the talent gap between QB5 and QB7/8? If it’s not much then take the WR and grab the next tier of QB with 47.
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If the Giants don't pick QB at 6, my preference would be for Dallas Turner/Laitu Latu or Alt (on the condition they've ascertained he can play RT).
Trade down for a chance at Penix plus extra picks would be better than that to you no?
I would be fully onboard with a trade down from #6 to #11 to select Penix. I think the Jets can’t go QB without pissing off Rodgers. The only problem is trading back with a team that wants a QB because you have no idea if they are taking your guy.
So for me, how far is the talent gap between QB5 and QB7/8? If it’s not much then take the WR and grab the next tier of QB with 47.
According to most scouts and pros, the gap between JJM/Penix/Nix and a Michael Pratt or Spencer Rattler is vast.
So for me, how far is the talent gap between QB5 and QB7/8? If it’s not much then take the WR and grab the next tier of QB with 47.
I think the problem may be that QBs #1-#6 are gone before we pick in the second, and the rest of the QBs are not worth that high of a pick. I’d love to get Penix or Nix at #47 but I can’t see them lasting into the second with how many QB needy teams there are.
Receivers are walking into the league and succeeding. I'm not sure the value charts and supply charts support big cap or draft investments.
We have seen the impact odell Beckham Jr had coming in. We have seen the impact A.J Brown had on the eagles and I can go on and on. A true threat #1 wide receiver can impact a team.
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In comment 16470821 Go Terps said:
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If the Giants don't pick QB at 6, my preference would be for Dallas Turner/Laitu Latu or Alt (on the condition they've ascertained he can play RT).
Trade down for a chance at Penix plus extra picks would be better than that to you no?
I would be fully onboard with a trade down from #6 to #11 to select Penix. I think the Jets can’t go QB without pissing off Rodgers. The only problem is trading back with a team that wants a QB because you have no idea if they are taking your guy.
And if somehow Penix gets taken then grab BTJ or Fuaga or Quinyon/Terrion or trade down again. We have so many needs, we need extra picks and I have faith in Schoen to do well with more top 100 picks this year vs an elite prospect at WR who probably won't reach his potential here until year 3-4 in his rookie contract at the earliest. What good is that?
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I'm going to talk about this on the podcast tomorrow.
We assume it isn't weird for the Cardinals and Chargers, two teams with a desperate need for WRs, to pass on the top three. But somehow it would be for the Giants.
Cards and Chargers have an established starter at QB, and the Giants do not.
That's more of an argument to consider other positions than WR.
Again, I'll get into this tomorrow.
We have seen the impact odell Beckham Jr had coming in. We have seen the impact A.J Brown had on the eagles and I can go on and on. A true threat #1 wide receiver can impact a team.
Obviously, if there are no good trade down offers then it is what it is. I don't see that happening with elite LTs, WR and maybe a potential franchise QB on the board.
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In comment 16470770 Eric from BBI said:
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I'm going to talk about this on the podcast tomorrow.
We assume it isn't weird for the Cardinals and Chargers, two teams with a desperate need for WRs, to pass on the top three. But somehow it would be for the Giants.
Cards and Chargers have an established starter at QB, and the Giants do not.
That's more of an argument to consider other positions than WR.
Again, I'll get into this tomorrow.
I'm looking forward to that. Odunze or Nabers are very likely to not reach their potential until year 3 or 4 in their rookie contract at the earliest here. How does that benefit the long term future of NYG football?