I love both Odunze and Nabers as prospects. They are both elite. Nevertheless, I can't help but think it would not be wise taking one of them at 6 when we have needs at QB, CB, DL, TE, S, RB, OL and more. What good does a WR do when we have so many holes on the roster and a big question mark at QB?
We could get Odunze and Melton in the first 2 rounds or we could get Fautanu, Orhorhoro, Melton, and Benson just as an example.
I say if Schoen can't or doesn't get a QB with pick 6 then he needs to tradedown, perhaps multiple times. This is a very strong draft in the top 100. Either get a QB via pick 6 or stack picks in the top 100 and properly build the roster.
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Tree guys which is the offense have big time players at WR.
Mike Mcdaniel thought it was important to get Hill, Shanahan has both Deebo, Aiyuk, and Kittle. Ryans just traded for Diggs.
Once again, they all have credible QBs. With our roster currently situated would you rather have 4 good players or a great receiver and a good player? Which would help us more in the long term?
Tua wasn't thought to be anything and Purdy has only played with those guys.
Check this off the list now.
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You said the 2 WRs are elite. An elite player at a high value position is how you become successful. Elite players help other players become better. On O we have an elite OT.
Again, what has Garrett Wilson done for the Jets offense? An elite receiver is great for a team ready to utilize one or at least without half their positions with holes on the roster. I just don't think it's smart with our roster currently. Build the trenches, build the team from the inside out. CB and the trenches are more important than WR to me when you have no credible passing threat.
Didn't we build the trenchs in FA? Some of the kids have to step up, they all cant be 1st rounders. If the 2 OGs work out and JMS gets better and Neal can some how be at least average. Then its fixed. If the QBs are not elite then why bother? Throwinmore mid tier talent is not going to fix the Giants. They need studs.
Beckham is an interesting case to bring up. He exploded onto the scene his first three seasons:
Those are three highly, highly productive years. Now let's look at the Giants' scoring output and record those three years:
2014: 23.8 PPG, 6-10
2015: 26.3 PPG, 6-10
2016: 19.4 PPG, 11-5
Does that support the idea that WR is a premium position? I'm not sure.
But in the NFL 2024, it’s an offensive and passing league. We desperately need a true #1 WR. I know this is a deep WR draft and the last several years good quality WR have been coming out in bunches. But the Giants have lacked a legit #1 WR since OBJ, so when you have a chance to get one of these top 3 WR who are all legit #1s, it’s really hard to pass on them. They can’t afford to get another #2 or a slot WR. We’d have to make do if we take a QB at 6 or a trade up. Taking a QB in the first you sacrifice because it’s so hard to get a franchise QB.
Offense is such a pressing need on this team that CB2, 3t dt, S have to wait. You can sign a vet at those positions for a yr or 2 for now. But outside of QB, they need to take one of these 3 WR. So if it’s a trade down, I hope it’s only a few spots where we can still get Nabers or Odunze.
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In comment 16470794 Giantsbigblue said:
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Tree guys which is the offense have big time players at WR.
Mike Mcdaniel thought it was important to get Hill, Shanahan has both Deebo, Aiyuk, and Kittle. Ryans just traded for Diggs.
Once again, they all have credible QBs. With our roster currently situated would you rather have 4 good players or a great receiver and a good player? Which would help us more in the long term?
Tua wasn't thought to be anything and Purdy has only played with those guys.
Well then we can pray DJ or Lock is taken to new heights by a rookie WR taken with pick 6? If that doesn't happen, the WR will likely not be a huge difference maker until year 3-4 in their rookie contract.
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We have seen the impact odell Beckham Jr had coming in. We have seen the impact A.J Brown had on the eagles and I can go on and on. A true threat #1 wide receiver can impact a team.
Beckham is an interesting case to bring up. He exploded onto the scene his first three seasons:
Those are three highly, highly productive years. Now let's look at the Giants' scoring output and record those three years:
2014: 23.8 PPG, 6-10
2015: 26.3 PPG, 6-10
2016: 19.4 PPG, 11-5
Does that support the idea that WR is a premium position? I'm not sure.
He had Eli Manning. It's not a pertinent comparison. WR is a premium position with an OL and QB. Otherwise, your looking at wasting a majority of that rookie contract if you ask me.
Also, brining in a rookie QB next year with a strong offensive line is probably easier than doing one with an average line and a great WR.
I don't agree with the following ideas:
1) draft a QB next year; kicking the can down the road, not knowing where NYG would pick and knowing its a QB deficient draft in '25.
2) acquire one via trade or FA
3) stick w DJ
There are 4 quality QBs in this draft; 5 if you count Pennix (which I don't bc it reduces the importance of one our two top players; Andrew Thomas). Do what you have to do to get one of the 4.
But in the NFL 2024, it’s an offensive and passing league. We desperately need a true #1 WR. I know this is a deep WR draft and the last several years good quality WR have been coming out in bunches. But the Giants have lacked a legit #1 WR since OBJ, so when you have a chance to get one of these top 3 WR who are all legit #1s, it’s really hard to pass on them. They can’t afford to get another #2 or a slot WR. We’d have to make do if we take a QB at 6 or a trade up. Taking a QB in the first you sacrifice because it’s so hard to get a franchise QB.
Offense is such a pressing need on this team that CB2, 3t dt, S have to wait. You can sign a vet at those positions for a yr or 2 for now. But outside of QB, they need to take one of these 3 WR. So if it’s a trade down, I hope it’s only a few spots where we can still get Nabers or Odunze.
I'd argue a franchise QB would do just fine with our current receivers and if Waller is done a TE like Sinnott in rd 2 or 3 plus a trade down from 6 if no QB would be better than Odunze at 6. We don't even know what Slayton, Hyatt and Wandale could be capable of with competent QB play let alone good QB play.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
Thank you - game has changed from Bill Walsh era.
2023 had no elite WRs. Maybe 2025 does (maybe not) but maybe we find we need a QB or there are better draft options on defense. In 2024, the strength is WR with no real top-10 options on defensive worth the pick. Pick the WR and while I prefer Nabers I don't care in the least if its any of the 3. More picks does not mean better picks so not interested in a trade down in a draft (that in my view) is top heavy.
Also, brining in a rookie QB next year with a strong offensive line is probably easier than doing one with an average line and a great WR.
Then trade down slightly and take Fuaga. He's as sure of a pick for RT as you'll find. Much better than converting a LT or any other options. Fuaga plus a 3rd and 2025 2nd? Great.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
And Daniel Jones is no Eli Manning.
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but an argument could be made that outside of picking a QB, the smartest pick here would be OT. If you're running it back with Jones, you have to maximize his weakness which is processing the field and pocket presence--so an elite offensive line is absolutely essential. Whether you have elite receivers matters less if the QB can't process where they are on the field.
Also, brining in a rookie QB next year with a strong offensive line is probably easier than doing one with an average line and a great WR.
Then trade down slightly and take Fuaga. He's as sure of a pick for RT as you'll find. Much better than converting a LT or any other options. Fuaga plus a 3rd and 2025 2nd? Great.
I want a QB this draft, but if that's not possible trading down to get a RT and some 2025 assets when we'll need to look for QB again would be ideal.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
That's makes my point. Beckham's high level performance didn't make a difference in W/L because more important areas weren't performing.
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Was a great coach but anything he said has no relevance to the current game.
Thank you - game has changed from Bill Walsh era.
2023 had no elite WRs. Maybe 2025 does (maybe not) but maybe we find we need a QB or there are better draft options on defense. In 2024, the strength is WR with no real top-10 options on defensive worth the pick. Pick the WR and while I prefer Nabers I don't care in the least if its any of the 3. More picks does not mean better picks so not interested in a trade down in a draft (that in my view) is top heavy.
Les Snead for the Rams would beg to differ. If Schoen could get 4 Wandale quality guys vs Odunze and a Wandale quality guy I'm taking the 4 wandale quality guys.
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We have seen the impact odell Beckham Jr had coming in. We have seen the impact A.J Brown had on the eagles and I can go on and on. A true threat #1 wide receiver can impact a team.
Beckham is an interesting case to bring up. He exploded onto the scene his first three seasons:
Those are three highly, highly productive years. Now let's look at the Giants' scoring output and record those three years:
2014: 23.8 PPG, 6-10
2015: 26.3 PPG, 6-10
2016: 19.4 PPG, 11-5
Does that support the idea that WR is a premium position? I'm not sure.
Again, a useless argument.
Giants defense ranked 29th and 30th in the league in 2014 and 2015. That is why they didn't win.
In 2016? They ranked 10th. Which is why they made the playoffs.
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One of the worst arguments in pro sports is comparing Beckham's stats vs the Giants winning games.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
That's makes my point. Beckham's high level performance didn't make a difference in W/L because more important areas weren't performing.
No, that doesn't make your point. Your point is not valid because Beckham was an exceptional player. If the Giants had better coaches and players on defense, they likely make the playoffs a lot more times during his tenure here.
OK, i get it.
But that is not a reason to not draft an exceptional, all pro type player. You are drafting the player, not position.
If Rome Odunze becomes Larry Fitzgerald, nobody is going to care about positional value.
WR is a premium position and gets paid as such. To draft a stud #1 weapon and get a 5th year option for that player, is invaluable.
That of course, if they can't get Maye.
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In comment 16470874 ryanmkeane said:
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One of the worst arguments in pro sports is comparing Beckham's stats vs the Giants winning games.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
That's makes my point. Beckham's high level performance didn't make a difference in W/L because more important areas weren't performing.
No, that doesn't make your point. Your point is not valid because Beckham was an exceptional player. If the Giants had better coaches and players on defense, they likely make the playoffs a lot more times during his tenure here.
Once again, we had Eli Manning playing some of the best football of his career then. The comparison is moot.
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OK, i get it.
But that is not a reason to not draft an exceptional, all pro type player. You are drafting the player, not position.
If Rome Odunze becomes Larry Fitzgerald, nobody is going to care about positional value.
WR is a premium position and gets paid as such. To draft a stud #1 weapon and get a 5th year option for that player, is invaluable.
That of course, if they can't get Maye.
If we only get 2 years at the most of Odunze reaching his potential, how is that invaluable? If we take Odunze and don't get a better option at QB, then even if we get a good option in 2025 he won't be productive until 2026-27.
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.
OK, i get it.
But that is not a reason to not draft an exceptional, all pro type player. You are drafting the player, not position.
If Rome Odunze becomes Larry Fitzgerald, nobody is going to care about positional value.
WR is a premium position and gets paid as such. To draft a stud #1 weapon and get a 5th year option for that player, is invaluable.
That of course, if they can't get Maye.
It wasn't invaluable to the Guests in 2014.
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In comment 16470879 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16470874 ryanmkeane said:
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One of the worst arguments in pro sports is comparing Beckham's stats vs the Giants winning games.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
That's makes my point. Beckham's high level performance didn't make a difference in W/L because more important areas weren't performing.
No, that doesn't make your point. Your point is not valid because Beckham was an exceptional player. If the Giants had better coaches and players on defense, they likely make the playoffs a lot more times during his tenure here.
Once again, we had Eli Manning playing some of the best football of his career then. The comparison is moot.
So if Eli was still playing great ball then drafting a QB is useless too.
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In comment 16470882 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 16470879 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16470874 ryanmkeane said:
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One of the worst arguments in pro sports is comparing Beckham's stats vs the Giants winning games.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
That's makes my point. Beckham's high level performance didn't make a difference in W/L because more important areas weren't performing.
No, that doesn't make your point. Your point is not valid because Beckham was an exceptional player. If the Giants had better coaches and players on defense, they likely make the playoffs a lot more times during his tenure here.
Once again, we had Eli Manning playing some of the best football of his career then. The comparison is moot.
So if Eli was still playing great ball then drafting a QB is useless too.
We don't have Eli Manning now. Whats your point?
Aaron Donald or Zach Martin would have been better picks.
On defense, Dex, Burns, Thibs, Okereke, Banks would be locks. Outside of Barkley, not one other player on our offense since OBJ remotely scares an opponent. The Giants are so desperately lacking offensive weapons it’s scary.
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In comment 16470888 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16470882 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 16470879 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16470874 ryanmkeane said:
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One of the worst arguments in pro sports is comparing Beckham's stats vs the Giants winning games.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
That's makes my point. Beckham's high level performance didn't make a difference in W/L because more important areas weren't performing.
No, that doesn't make your point. Your point is not valid because Beckham was an exceptional player. If the Giants had better coaches and players on defense, they likely make the playoffs a lot more times during his tenure here.
Once again, we had Eli Manning playing some of the best football of his career then. The comparison is moot.
So if Eli was still playing great ball then drafting a QB is useless too.
We don't have Eli Manning now. Whats your point?
Aaron Donald or Zach Martin would have been better picks.
Why did you post a thread as a question if you don't want to see anyone else's view?
If the Giants go with Jones and pick a WR, they'll need someone to create the yards. Nabers had the higest YAC/R among the big 3 receivers and the highest avoided tackle rate.
If the Giants are looking for an OBJ impact, Nabers is the pick.
So, are you saying these WRs - the "top three" - are sure things? If so, how do you know that?
Each draft is definitely independent of prior draft outcomes, but it's hard to ignore that the majority of the best WRs in the NFL right now are not day one picks.
Namely: Hill, both Browns, Aiyuk, Adams, Nacua, Kupp, Diggs...and on and on and one.
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In comment 16470897 Giantsbigblue said:
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In comment 16470888 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16470882 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 16470879 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16470874 ryanmkeane said:
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One of the worst arguments in pro sports is comparing Beckham's stats vs the Giants winning games.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
That's makes my point. Beckham's high level performance didn't make a difference in W/L because more important areas weren't performing.
No, that doesn't make your point. Your point is not valid because Beckham was an exceptional player. If the Giants had better coaches and players on defense, they likely make the playoffs a lot more times during his tenure here.
Once again, we had Eli Manning playing some of the best football of his career then. The comparison is moot.
So if Eli was still playing great ball then drafting a QB is useless too.
We don't have Eli Manning now. Whats your point?
Aaron Donald or Zach Martin would have been better picks.
Why did you post a thread as a question if you don't want to see anyone else's view?
I want to see the light, but comparing OBJ with Eli to Odunze with DJ/Lock isn't doing it for me.
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In comment 16470902 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16470897 Giantsbigblue said:
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In comment 16470888 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16470882 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 16470879 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16470874 ryanmkeane said:
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One of the worst arguments in pro sports is comparing Beckham's stats vs the Giants winning games.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
That's makes my point. Beckham's high level performance didn't make a difference in W/L because more important areas weren't performing.
No, that doesn't make your point. Your point is not valid because Beckham was an exceptional player. If the Giants had better coaches and players on defense, they likely make the playoffs a lot more times during his tenure here.
Once again, we had Eli Manning playing some of the best football of his career then. The comparison is moot.
So if Eli was still playing great ball then drafting a QB is useless too.
We don't have Eli Manning now. Whats your point?
Aaron Donald or Zach Martin would have been better picks.
Why did you post a thread as a question if you don't want to see anyone else's view?
I want to see the light, but comparing OBJ with Eli to Odunze with DJ/Lock isn't doing it for me.
I did neither. I was just pointing out that having a good QB at the time made no difference when the team and Defense was garbage.
If you want to draft a QB at 6, just say it. I won't poo poo that opinion. I just think an alpha WR is very important and could improve an offense.
any of the 3 WR we could wind up with has a 90+ rating from SY
However,due to our QB/Ol situation...it may be a wasted pick.
If we go WR I am ok,but I would prefer trading back....for the exact reasons your question is even asked in the first place.
On defense, Dex, Burns, Thibs, Okereke, Banks would be locks. Outside of Barkley, not one other player on our offense since OBJ remotely scares an opponent. The Giants are so desperately lacking offensive weapons it’s scary.
All 3 of our receivers would be WR3/role players on the Chiefs, Browns, Ravens, Bills?
Every team has a different board. Every team has different priorities.
Every team falls in love with players and as you know from the top 30 visits, we tend to draft quite a few from that list.
WR is a smart move if you have a deep conviction on the player and the person. Culture matters as does elite talent.
Imagine if OBJ wasn't a diva WR and still had all that talent. He was drafted at pick 12. Odunze is a high quality player, person, teammate. Off the charts work ethic.
A very clean player. If we select a WR at 6 I hope it is him.
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In comment 16470908 Giantsbigblue said:
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In comment 16470902 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16470897 Giantsbigblue said:
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In comment 16470888 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16470882 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 16470879 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16470874 ryanmkeane said:
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One of the worst arguments in pro sports is comparing Beckham's stats vs the Giants winning games.
Beckham was an exceptional receiver for years on the Giants. The reason the Giants didn't win during his tenure was that the OL was awful and other than 1 season, the defense was largely awful.
Beckham was an excellent draft pick.
That's makes my point. Beckham's high level performance didn't make a difference in W/L because more important areas weren't performing.
No, that doesn't make your point. Your point is not valid because Beckham was an exceptional player. If the Giants had better coaches and players on defense, they likely make the playoffs a lot more times during his tenure here.
Once again, we had Eli Manning playing some of the best football of his career then. The comparison is moot.
So if Eli was still playing great ball then drafting a QB is useless too.
We don't have Eli Manning now. Whats your point?
Aaron Donald or Zach Martin would have been better picks.
Why did you post a thread as a question if you don't want to see anyone else's view?
I want to see the light, but comparing OBJ with Eli to Odunze with DJ/Lock isn't doing it for me.
I did neither. I was just pointing out that having a good QB at the time made no difference when the team and Defense was garbage.
If you want to draft a QB at 6, just say it. I won't poo poo that opinion. I just think an alpha WR is very important and could improve an offense.
It could, but the question is it wise given our OL and QB situation recently?
Every team has a different board. Every team has different priorities.
Every team falls in love with players and as you know from the top 30 visits, we tend to draft quite a few from that list.
WR is a smart move if you have a deep conviction on the player and the person. Culture matters as does elite talent.
Imagine if OBJ wasn't a diva WR and still had all that talent. He was drafted at pick 12. Odunze is a high quality player, person, teammate. Off the charts work ethic.
A very clean player. If we select a WR at 6 I hope it is him.
Everyone keeps bringing up OBJ, but we had Eli Manning ballin then. We have Lock and DJ now.
Plus, the draft is more like poker than a crapshoot. Good GMs get good players in the top 100 like the 49ers and Rams and others.
So, a very good QB and a very good WR didn't lead to wins.
We should cross QB and WR off the chart at 6.
In addition to QB we certainly need WR, Edge, OL, CB to name a few. But there is no guarantee that guys at those positions with those grades are there. We can identify for example that CB is a pressing need, but there may not be a CB sitting there in the second. More second round picks doesn’t help address that.
If you trust your scouts and your coaches you draft talent where ever it presents itself because that is the surest way to not end up with a bunch of JAGs you need to replace every 2-3 years.
Guess what, that's happened.
Don't buy into the BS that WR1's are hard to find, they aren't. The Giants are just, really really bad at evaluating and identifying them.
If none of the QB's referenced above are available at 6 (and we could not work out a trade to get one) and there is an offer on the table that represents solid value for the pick while still keeping us in the "1st round talent" area of our board then it would be idiotic to take a WR.
If neither of the scenarios referenced above exist then drafting a WR may ending up netting us the best player. With an OL at 7 you better be getting a Quentin Nelson not a DJ Fluker, Evan Neal, Ereck Flowers, etc. That is easier said than done with how many young OL have struggled throughout the NFL.
How about we do this exercise with BBIs favorite non-giant - Justin Herbert. No playoff wins. Top 5 pick this year. Maybe the chargers should look to get rid of him too? Since his success has not led to any team success whatsoever.
Maybe Jacksonville should get rid of Lawrence too. Hell guys like Prescott, Cousins, Mayfield, Watson should never gotten deals either since they have proven they can’t win in the playoffs. And of course there’s the whole Ravens situation where their franchise QBs chokes year after year in the playoffs with the leagues top defense nearly every year and a HOF coach.
Maybe they should move on from their QBs too.
So, a very good QB and a very good WR didn't lead to wins.
We should cross QB and WR off the chart at 6.
They were effective together, but a good ER without a good QB could just waste most of the rookie wr contract. I'd rather stack 2nd round rounds picks and 2025 draft capital personally and I haven't seen anyone make me feel good about WR at 6 in this thread yet. This is coming from someone who was on board with WR at 6 if no qb before. After further contemplation, I don't think that would be wise.
And if people want to use the Mahomes example of not having great WRs and still wins..
1) players like Mahomes rarely come around if ever.
2) he still has the best TE in the game who has dominated the NFL in the pass game.