Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
26m
If Rome Odunze gets to pick No. 8,
@MoveTheSticks
makes a case for a "easy, painless" trade for #Jets to move up to 8 and #Falcons to move down to 10.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
12m
Expectation around the league is #Commanders will take Jayden Daniels at No. 2,
@MoveTheSticks
says. But he likes Drake Maye for that spot because of Matt Ryan comps for head coach Dan Quinn
especially moving down. Not much of an Alt supporter, but I would be okay with the idea.
I would rather have, instead, Fuaga, who is just an ideal multiple prospect. As Sy wrote:
Quote:
...Fuaga wins as much as anyone. He put out some really good performance against his toughest competition, including the UCLA defensive end Laiatu Latu, who I am very high on.
would be trading assets to move up to draft JJM. To the OL guys on this site who would draft an OL in the first round every year (you know who you are) at some point you need some playmakers in your lineup for an offense to be productive. The Giants have none right now. It is rare that you get an opportunity to draft talents like MHJ, Odunze and Nabers. How about we draft an all-pro type WR and see if that helps the many already highly drafted OL we have on the roster? Yes...I want a QB as well but not willing to sell the farm for a less than can't miss prospect.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
12m
Expectation around the league is #Commanders will take Jayden Daniels at No. 2,
@MoveTheSticks
says. But he likes Drake Maye for that spot because of Matt Ryan comps for head coach Dan Quinn
Takes a right tackle in the top 7 for the second time in three years he should be fired before day 2.
I certainly understand the repulsion.
But I could buy it because the Neal pick has been a disaster. I don't think he's done anything to warrant a third tryout despite being 7th pick two years ago.
And it's not like Schoen reached for him. There was a consensus - assumed - that he was one of the better players available. So, sometimes things just don't work out and you miss on a player because the player likely peaked in college. That happens.
And I don't think it will be Schoen's either, but in principle, I'm FINE with taking an OT. If you can draft Neal at 7, why can't you draft an OT at 6? And it has nothing to do with Neal or AT. You simply CANNOT have too many OTs. Both starters are NEVER healthy for 16 games. Taking an OT could potentially finally fix the OL. I think they should be drafting at least one OL and one Edge EVERY year as a general matter of practice. The way teams like Philly and KC do.
All that said, at 6, I still think the chances are about 95% WR, 4% QB, 1% other.
If the Giants do somehow get Penix I hope you are right with your assessment, because if you are wrong this could be another step down to QB hell.
Aren't you in the slightest concerned about the negatives associated with him?
A 25-year-old player with a significant injury history.
He was recently interviewed and he acknowledged that he will continue playing with the knee brace.
He does not run, he does not extend plays, he is inaccurate on his intermediate throws, he is the worst of the QBs under pressure, and he comes from a simplistic offense similar to Tennessee that emphasizes one read and throwing downfield.
He may be the best of the deep passers but that is only one component of playing the QB position. The league is littered with one-trick ponies.
And he threw to Odunze who won a ridiculous 75% of his contested catches.
If he comes to the Giants he will have to run for his life and he will be throwing to receivers that historically win less than 40% of the contested catches.
If the Giants do select Penix I sure hope that I am wrong and becomes a franchise QB.
I send them Sy'56 for Jeremiah and then I put Jeremiah on waivers. Jeremiah also said a while back that Nix was the best QB. Jeremiah's got the fame but his picks are lame.
Takes a right tackle in the top 7 for the second time in three years he should be fired before day 2.
I certainly understand the repulsion.
But I could buy it because the Neal pick has been a disaster. I don't think he's done anything to warrant a third tryout despite being 7th pick two years ago.
And it's not like Schoen reached for him. There was a consensus - assumed - that he was one of the better players available. So, sometimes things just don't work out and you miss on a player because the player likely peaked in college. That happens.
The problem here is that they'd be repeating the exact same process that just failed with Neal: taking a highly-regarded Left Tackle prospect and moving him to Right Tackle. If you want to write Neal off, just take an actual right tackle in round 3 or something.
They’ve invested much more time in QBs and WRs. They’re also not giving up on Neal after two seasons and lastly Elumenor is not going to be depth. They signed him to be a starter.
The problem here is that they'd be repeating the exact same process that just failed with Neal: taking a highly-regarded Left Tackle prospect and moving him to Right Tackle. If you want to write Neal off, just take an actual right tackle in round 3 or something.
Well, like I mentioned earlier, I'd rather select Taliese Fuaga, a RT.
While I understand why the Neal situation would create some yips if we took a LT like Alt, we shouldn't just assume the same outcome would occur. Maybe Neal is just a bad NFL player.
The problem here is that they'd be repeating the exact same process that just failed with Neal: taking a highly-regarded Left Tackle prospect and moving him to Right Tackle. If you want to write Neal off, just take an actual right tackle in round 3 or something.
Well, like I mentioned earlier, I'd rather select Taliese Fuaga, a RT.
While I understand why the Neal situation would create some yips if we took a LT like Alt, we shouldn't just assume the same outcome would occur. Maybe Neal is just a bad NFL player.
Trade down with the Bears or Jets and then target 1.Fuaga 2.Fashanu
there’s a lot of data to refute a few of your points but let’s say Penix stinks. Then cut bait early and move on. Don’t let 5 years of Jones jade you into think we can’t cut bait on QBs sooner.
find one not at #6 is the way I'd go. With all they've invested in the OL, including hiring a new coach, they've got to work to mold rather than draft another top top 7 OT, whom I wager would rather play left tackle in the first place.
top 10 pick on an OT, who they would ask to change position,
AFTER, they hire a new OL coach, their previous pick has played only 19 games (barely 1 season), and you signed a T/G as a hedge for him not working out and payed the guy accordingly.
If Schoen was to draft Alt, that means he's throwing darts against the wall, without a plan. You guys should be smarter than the drivel on this thread.
yet another high pick on o-line and it still being historically awful is a bitter pill to swallow considering what else is available in the draft. Can make an argument for QB, WR, OL, CB...but the team goes absolutely no where without a QB.
is who I picked when Sy asked for a surprise pick at #6, but I'd be really stunned if they took him. As others have said, he's really a LT, and they drafted Neal two years ago with the #7 pick. I think they want to give Neal at least one more year to prove he's a RT, and if not, then they can kick him inside to guard.
Would have gotten earlier returns at RT and had LT insurance for when Thomas gets dinged up (he does in various ways). The assumed differential in run blocking would have had a pretty negligible impact on our team success to date.
I'm not saying I'd want to take Alt at #6, but it's not the worst thing in the world to have two tackles that can pass protect very well, especially if the fantasy is to then take Penix (lefty) later on.
I said a few months ago, for a team that just fielded one of the worst OLs ever and let up almost 100 sacks, you better be damn careful passing on Joe Alt.
Suspect this is planted to give Chargers 2nd thoughts of trading down
Lying season and so only way this story makes sense is if its planted to at least give the perception of a chance. Giants ideally don't want Chargers or Cardinals to trade out I suspect and so if they give the Chargers a reason to believe that Alt could go to Giants (and then OT #2 to Titans) then maybe they don't move.
I think this is silly-logic all around but much more likely that than JS planning to take a LT in the top-10 for the 2nd time in a few years only to try and convert him to RT. Just don't think he's a dumb enough to do that in a draft with other players of great need available.
I said a few months ago, for a team that just fielded one of the worst OLs ever and let up almost 100 sacks, you better be damn careful passing on Joe Alt.
In comment 16472705 Mbavaro said:
[quote] In comment 16472683 averagejoe said:
Quote:
In comment 16472663 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16472639 averagejoe said:
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Look what pick 7 a 2nd round and 3rd round pick got us. JS drafting OL needs to stop
All the the lineman he has drafted have all had major injury issues
Don’t ya think that that has hindered their development along with terrible coaching?
Isn't that another reason he should not draft OL ? He can't find any that actually play .
WTF are you even talking about
Schoen shouldn’t draft OL’s because they got hurt and had bad coaching?
Do you think before you post?
[/quote
I do think. And I watch the sad results . When they actually play they stink. I am hoping he does better with all the OL he just signed . Maybe he is jinxed but his track record is awful .
…And yes, that was a quote from our GM. I think we would all drop the ‘almost’ part but I wouldn’t rule out Alt and I wouldn’t be disappointed with the pick.
I squint and do mental gymnastics every offseason to think ‘this year or oline should be at least average.’ Every year is a massive letdown.
Picking Alt could lock in a long-term quality oline which will be huge for our next QB.
In comment 16472705 Mbavaro said:
[quote] In comment 16472683 averagejoe said:
Quote:
In comment 16472663 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16472639 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Look what pick 7 a 2nd round and 3rd round pick got us. JS drafting OL needs to stop
All the the lineman he has drafted have all had major injury issues
Don’t ya think that that has hindered their development along with terrible coaching?
Isn't that another reason he should not draft OL ? He can't find any that actually play .
WTF are you even talking about
Schoen shouldn’t draft OL’s because they got hurt and had bad coaching?
Do you think before you post?
[/quote
I do think. And I watch the sad results . When they actually play they stink. I am hoping he does better with all the OL he just signed . Maybe he is jinxed but his track record is awful .
Again
All have had significant injury issues combining that with terrible coaching
Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that that the jury could still be out with better coaching and staying healthy
If the Giants do somehow get Penix I hope you are right with your assessment, because if you are wrong this could be another step down to QB hell.
Aren't you in the slightest concerned about the negatives associated with him?
A 25-year-old player with a significant injury history.
He was recently interviewed and he acknowledged that he will continue playing with the knee brace.
He does not run, he does not extend plays, he is inaccurate on his intermediate throws, he is the worst of the QBs under pressure, and he comes from a simplistic offense similar to Tennessee that emphasizes one read and throwing downfield.
He may be the best of the deep passers but that is only one component of playing the QB position. The league is littered with one-trick ponies.
And he threw to Odunze who won a ridiculous 75% of his contested catches.
If he comes to the Giants he will have to run for his life and he will be throwing to receivers that historically win less than 40% of the contested catches.
If the Giants do select Penix I sure hope that I am wrong and becomes a franchise QB.
The key is, if Penix fails, you quickly jettison him and move on, not give him 5 years and a top tier QB extension and then decide "nope, maybe he's not it."
forest because of the trees. There is a common denominator to all the woes related to the line - Bobby Johnson. I remember some posters saying when Daboll hired him that he wasn't a good coach.
This is likely the 10th time I have said this. Not one player developed under Johnson. Even most vets regressed. How is it possible every draft pick they took got worse? How is it JMS started out well, and finished terrible? How is it Tyre Phillips got cut, picked up by the Eagles and six/eight weeks later returns to the Giants as a legit RT? How is it Schoen on the bye week reviewed his work on Evan Neal and was absolutely certain Neal was the guy he thought he was?
Yes, sometimes the player you draft is not the player you get. I get that. However, it is almost impossible to absolutely miss on all of them, some highly regarded, and it is almost impossible for those players to actually get worse while being on the roster.
@rydunleavy
·
26m
If Rome Odunze gets to pick No. 8,
@MoveTheSticks
makes a case for a "easy, painless" trade for #Jets to move up to 8 and #Falcons to move down to 10.
@rydunleavy
·
12m
Expectation around the league is #Commanders will take Jayden Daniels at No. 2,
@MoveTheSticks
says. But he likes Drake Maye for that spot because of Matt Ryan comps for head coach Dan Quinn
@TomRock_Newsday
·
2m
Further indication that no one actually knows for sure what Joe Schoen is thinking. Except maybe Joe Schoen.
I would rather have, instead, Fuaga, who is just an ideal multiple prospect. As Sy wrote:
Don’t hide anything from us!
@rydunleavy
·
12m
Expectation around the league is #Commanders will take Jayden Daniels at No. 2,
@MoveTheSticks
says. But he likes Drake Maye for that spot because of Matt Ryan comps for head coach Dan Quinn
Maye-Ryan-Quinn connection is dubious imo.
On tope of that, Alt isn't even a right tackle
I certainly understand the repulsion.
But I could buy it because the Neal pick has been a disaster. I don't think he's done anything to warrant a third tryout despite being 7th pick two years ago.
And it's not like Schoen reached for him. There was a consensus - assumed - that he was one of the better players available. So, sometimes things just don't work out and you miss on a player because the player likely peaked in college. That happens.
All that said, at 6, I still think the chances are about 95% WR, 4% QB, 1% other.
Alt won’t be the best player at 6. If this is the case trade down.
If the Giants do somehow get Penix I hope you are right with your assessment, because if you are wrong this could be another step down to QB hell.
Aren't you in the slightest concerned about the negatives associated with him?
A 25-year-old player with a significant injury history.
He was recently interviewed and he acknowledged that he will continue playing with the knee brace.
He does not run, he does not extend plays, he is inaccurate on his intermediate throws, he is the worst of the QBs under pressure, and he comes from a simplistic offense similar to Tennessee that emphasizes one read and throwing downfield.
He may be the best of the deep passers but that is only one component of playing the QB position. The league is littered with one-trick ponies.
And he threw to Odunze who won a ridiculous 75% of his contested catches.
If he comes to the Giants he will have to run for his life and he will be throwing to receivers that historically win less than 40% of the contested catches.
If the Giants do select Penix I sure hope that I am wrong and becomes a franchise QB.
If you had to bet which player would you say has the highest chance?
Quote:
Takes a right tackle in the top 7 for the second time in three years he should be fired before day 2.
I certainly understand the repulsion.
But I could buy it because the Neal pick has been a disaster. I don't think he's done anything to warrant a third tryout despite being 7th pick two years ago.
And it's not like Schoen reached for him. There was a consensus - assumed - that he was one of the better players available. So, sometimes things just don't work out and you miss on a player because the player likely peaked in college. That happens.
The problem here is that they'd be repeating the exact same process that just failed with Neal: taking a highly-regarded Left Tackle prospect and moving him to Right Tackle. If you want to write Neal off, just take an actual right tackle in round 3 or something.
Quote:
they pick Alt.
If you had to bet which player would you say has the highest chance?
Based on tea leaves and expected availability, I'd say Nabers.
The problem here is that they'd be repeating the exact same process that just failed with Neal: taking a highly-regarded Left Tackle prospect and moving him to Right Tackle. If you want to write Neal off, just take an actual right tackle in round 3 or something.
Well, like I mentioned earlier, I'd rather select Taliese Fuaga, a RT.
While I understand why the Neal situation would create some yips if we took a LT like Alt, we shouldn't just assume the same outcome would occur. Maybe Neal is just a bad NFL player.
Quote:
The problem here is that they'd be repeating the exact same process that just failed with Neal: taking a highly-regarded Left Tackle prospect and moving him to Right Tackle. If you want to write Neal off, just take an actual right tackle in round 3 or something.
Well, like I mentioned earlier, I'd rather select Taliese Fuaga, a RT.
While I understand why the Neal situation would create some yips if we took a LT like Alt, we shouldn't just assume the same outcome would occur. Maybe Neal is just a bad NFL player.
Trade down with the Bears or Jets and then target 1.Fuaga 2.Fashanu
AFTER, they hire a new OL coach, their previous pick has played only 19 games (barely 1 season), and you signed a T/G as a hedge for him not working out and payed the guy accordingly.
If Schoen was to draft Alt, that means he's throwing darts against the wall, without a plan. You guys should be smarter than the drivel on this thread.
But if we go Penix, right tackle IS left tackle....... :)
I'm not saying I'd want to take Alt at #6, but it's not the worst thing in the world to have two tackles that can pass protect very well, especially if the fantasy is to then take Penix (lefty) later on.
I said a few months ago, for a team that just fielded one of the worst OLs ever and let up almost 100 sacks, you better be damn careful passing on Joe Alt.
I think this is silly-logic all around but much more likely that than JS planning to take a LT in the top-10 for the 2nd time in a few years only to try and convert him to RT. Just don't think he's a dumb enough to do that in a draft with other players of great need available.
I said a few months ago, for a team that just fielded one of the worst OLs ever and let up almost 100 sacks, you better be damn careful passing on Joe Alt.
exact same reason we drafted Evan Neal at 7
All the the lineman he has drafted have all had major injury issues
Don’t ya think that that has hindered their development along with terrible coaching?
Quote:
Look what pick 7 a 2nd round and 3rd round pick got us. JS drafting OL needs to stop
All the the lineman he has drafted have all had major injury issues
Don’t ya think that that has hindered their development along with terrible coaching?
Isn't that another reason he should not draft OL ? He can't find any that actually play .
Trade down with the Bears or Jets and then target 1.Fuaga 2.Fashanu
Ideally, yes, that is how I would execute getting an OL on day one - moving down.
That would make the strategy much more defensible. Get the OL in the teens (or later) and add another pick in the swap.
Quote:
In comment 16472639 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Look what pick 7 a 2nd round and 3rd round pick got us. JS drafting OL needs to stop
All the the lineman he has drafted have all had major injury issues
Don’t ya think that that has hindered their development along with terrible coaching?
Isn't that another reason he should not draft OL ? He can't find any that actually play .
WTF are you even talking about
Schoen shouldn’t draft OL’s because they got hurt and had bad coaching?
Do you think before you post?
[quote] In comment 16472683 averagejoe said:
Quote:
In comment 16472663 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16472639 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Look what pick 7 a 2nd round and 3rd round pick got us. JS drafting OL needs to stop
All the the lineman he has drafted have all had major injury issues
Don’t ya think that that has hindered their development along with terrible coaching?
Isn't that another reason he should not draft OL ? He can't find any that actually play .
WTF are you even talking about
Schoen shouldn’t draft OL’s because they got hurt and had bad coaching?
Do you think before you post?
[/quote
I do think. And I watch the sad results . When they actually play they stink. I am hoping he does better with all the OL he just signed . Maybe he is jinxed but his track record is awful .
I squint and do mental gymnastics every offseason to think ‘this year or oline should be at least average.’ Every year is a massive letdown.
Picking Alt could lock in a long-term quality oline which will be huge for our next QB.
[quote] In comment 16472683 averagejoe said:
Quote:
In comment 16472663 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16472639 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Look what pick 7 a 2nd round and 3rd round pick got us. JS drafting OL needs to stop
All the the lineman he has drafted have all had major injury issues
Don’t ya think that that has hindered their development along with terrible coaching?
Isn't that another reason he should not draft OL ? He can't find any that actually play .
WTF are you even talking about
Schoen shouldn’t draft OL’s because they got hurt and had bad coaching?
Do you think before you post?
[/quote
I do think. And I watch the sad results . When they actually play they stink. I am hoping he does better with all the OL he just signed . Maybe he is jinxed but his track record is awful .
Again
All have had significant injury issues combining that with terrible coaching
Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that that the jury could still be out with better coaching and staying healthy
But you do you
If the Giants do somehow get Penix I hope you are right with your assessment, because if you are wrong this could be another step down to QB hell.
Aren't you in the slightest concerned about the negatives associated with him?
A 25-year-old player with a significant injury history.
He was recently interviewed and he acknowledged that he will continue playing with the knee brace.
He does not run, he does not extend plays, he is inaccurate on his intermediate throws, he is the worst of the QBs under pressure, and he comes from a simplistic offense similar to Tennessee that emphasizes one read and throwing downfield.
He may be the best of the deep passers but that is only one component of playing the QB position. The league is littered with one-trick ponies.
And he threw to Odunze who won a ridiculous 75% of his contested catches.
If he comes to the Giants he will have to run for his life and he will be throwing to receivers that historically win less than 40% of the contested catches.
If the Giants do select Penix I sure hope that I am wrong and becomes a franchise QB.
The key is, if Penix fails, you quickly jettison him and move on, not give him 5 years and a top tier QB extension and then decide "nope, maybe he's not it."
This is likely the 10th time I have said this. Not one player developed under Johnson. Even most vets regressed. How is it possible every draft pick they took got worse? How is it JMS started out well, and finished terrible? How is it Tyre Phillips got cut, picked up by the Eagles and six/eight weeks later returns to the Giants as a legit RT? How is it Schoen on the bye week reviewed his work on Evan Neal and was absolutely certain Neal was the guy he thought he was?
Yes, sometimes the player you draft is not the player you get. I get that. However, it is almost impossible to absolutely miss on all of them, some highly regarded, and it is almost impossible for those players to actually get worse while being on the roster.