Just how big of a "need" is QB?

realizes QB is a huge need, whether because you think Jones is ineffective, or simply because of his injuries.

Uh. A big fucking one.

We have been living in QB hell for a decade (includes Eli's down years). It is time for some hope!!!!!!!!

It's a huge issue. Most of us think it's likely Schoen will cut Jones after this season. Jones will have to really play well and win to justify the cap hit he'd be getting in 2025. Lock will be a UFA in 2025. DeVito was benched for poor play and is a UDFA,

I cringe when I see mocks not taking a QB. I'd lose all confidence in this regime if that were the case.

Logic says they are taking a real serious look at McCarthy for that reason. Now project out the 2025 QBs, it's not promising as of today.

I think if NE is at all open to trading down, Schoen will do it.

roster are currently NFL ready to be a legit QB1.

That may be the case after the draft as well even if they draft a QB high.

That's how much of a need QB is

be overestimated.

You have an overpaid, injury prone starter, who is likely more suited for a backup, wildcat role
you have a journeyman JAG as backup
you have a charismatic practice squad guy forced into action due to injury who is likely out of the NFL before his commercials stop airing

it's the most important position on the field and there is no certainty/future for it on the roster.

Still doesn't mean you should force the pick and if they don't get a QB this year but do get an elite WR or fill other needs it's ok too - maybe even better long term, but I don't see how it's possible to overestimate how big a need QB is for the Giants.

But the priority has to be getting a guy who you believe will lead you to championships. TBH, I really only see the top QBs doing that these days. That's why when we talk about QB being a need, I'm not on the same page as many. I think many here just want someone other than Jones. But to me, if the guy isn't someone who realistically doesn't project to the top 10 QBs in the league (or thereabouts), then I think we need to keep the search going. Finding a guy you can win with type isn't that difficult while we're looking.

Who is so often injured and when not injured won't throw the ball down the field. Also can't win with Drew Lock or Cutlets. If you want the Giants to actually win, we need an NFL level starting QB. Full stop.

A cost controlled decent QB is a need.....but maybe not as big as a true #1 WR.

And it all doesn't matter if the OL doesn't block.

In comment 16473184 UberAlias said:

Quote:

But the priority has to be getting a guy who you believe will lead you to championships. TBH, I really only see the top QBs doing that these days. That's why when we talk about QB being a need, I'm not on the same page as many. I think many here just want someone other than Jones. But to me, if the guy isn't someone who realistically doesn't project to the top 10 QBs in the league (or thereabouts), then I think we need to keep the search going. Finding a guy you can win with type isn't that difficult while we're looking.

I don't agree. The priority can be getting a better player who's cheap. Why does it have to be a Super Bowl caliber QB? Going to be waiting forever if that's the case. Then what happens when NYG goes 7-10 and are picking 12 next year and in a less desirable QB situation in what is likely to be a less talented class?

Upgrade the position with a cheap player who you hope can be a consistently top 12 QB in the league and then build from there. If not, try again.

You can keep working on trade up scenarios in May. The Giants QB needs don't turn on whether DiVito is an EFRA or under contract in 2025.

Because the goal is to win Superbowls. That's what every team should be building for. I'm not sure what else to say.

In comment 16473196 UberAlias said:

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Because the goal is to win Superbowls. That's what every team should be building for. I'm not sure what else to say.

I doubt any team drafts a QB in the first round and thinks "Meh, this guy can be ok. He won't win us any Superbowls, but he will likely keep me from getting fired."

They may end up with a guy who is just a decent QB and that can be ok. There are only 5-10 guys who are superstars at the position and every team won't have one. But when you draft, you are drafting potential and all of those guys have the potential to be very good.

.

I think that some of the press that are denying need for QB are intentionally carrying water for ownership and are not being objective.

In comment 16473188 George from PA said:

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A cost controlled decent QB is a need.....but maybe not as big as a true #1 WR. And it all doesn't matter if the OL doesn't block.

+1

In comment 16473189 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 16473184 UberAlias said: Quote: But the priority has to be getting a guy who you believe will lead you to championships. TBH, I really only see the top QBs doing that these days. That's why when we talk about QB being a need, I'm not on the same page as many. I think many here just want someone other than Jones. But to me, if the guy isn't someone who realistically doesn't project to the top 10 QBs in the league (or thereabouts), then I think we need to keep the search going. Finding a guy you can win with type isn't that difficult while we're looking. I don't agree. The priority can be getting a better player who's cheap. Why does it have to be a Super Bowl caliber QB? Going to be waiting forever if that's the case. Then what happens when NYG goes 7-10 and are picking 12 next year and in a less desirable QB situation in what is likely to be a less talented class? Upgrade the position with a cheap player who you hope can be a consistently top 12 QB in the league and then build from there. If not, try again.

Sy's Rich Gannon comp for JJ is relevant for me here. Nobody thinks of RIch Gannon as an all-time QB, but with a solid team around him in the early 00s, he was great and led the Raiders to a Superbowl and two conference championships (and would've had a third without the tuck rule).

Tell that to the portion of the fan base who are advocating for just that. That post was literally responding to one.

And we have heard plenty of sentiment about QBs being "So and so is a guy you can win with". There are absolutely teams out there who reach for QBs in the first round who would have to exceed expectations to become the sort we see winning championships. What happen is they talk themselves into a guy because that's what happens when you act out of desperation.

Gannon planed in a different era of the game.

It has to be a guy you think has star quality or a guy you think has traits you can further develop. Investing in the wrong QB is also a big issue. With the status of Jones contract, you lose out on half of the rookie cap savings if you draft a qb this year. Plus that QB will most likely sit year 1. I’m not saying don’t take a QB, but a trade up makes no sense. We already have cap problems with Jones contract, so trading away low cost draft picks to get a QB hinders the team from getting better.

So how would you feel if we trade up for a QB and give away our #1 next year and that turns into the #1 pick? Or even a top 5 pick? So we gave away 2 top 10 picks for a guy that probably will play very little their 1st year and was the 4th QB in the draft. Or wait a year, Jones contract can be managed away with a much smaller cap hit. Most likely there will be a QB available of similar grade to any qb available to the Giants.

There is risk on both sides. Teams should invest in a QB in the draft every other year. So in a 3 qb system you have your starter, a guy you chose later in the draft 2 years ago that is now the backup and then a rookie to eventually take over as backup. The Giants have been chasing their tail, replacing coaches, bad drafting at almost every position (look at the 2021 draft, we have no starters going into their 4th year) and having no cap space because of bad drafts and poor FA signings. There is no long term plan for the Giants because they seem to draft for immediate need, filling holes instead of getting the best player available. Basically going into the draft hungry. You can see the holes we have and the players we brought in for visits. They line up pretty closely. WR, QB, CB. The past 2 years, we can see the Giants target the guys they bring in.

In comment 16473226 UberAlias said:

Quote:

Tell that to the portion of the fan base who are advocating for just that. That post was literally responding to one. And we have heard plenty of sentiment about QBs being "So and so is a guy you can win with". There are absolutely teams out there who reach for QBs in the first round who would have to exceed expectations to become the sort we see winning championships. What happen is they talk themselves into a guy because that's what happens when you act out of desperation.

Right now the Giants have one of the worst QB situations in the league. Next year it is likely they will only have Tommy DeVito under contract if he's still even here.

There are 6 solid QB prospects in this draft, 4 of which are being talked about in the top 10. That still isn't enough to take QB? I ultimately agree with Mike that a team drafts someone because they think he can be part of a SB winner. But, how many QBs are in that tier?

You can't just ignore the position until the perfect prospect comes along.

You use the word “middling” and “sub-par”

We arent in the zip code of either

We are the absolute bottom of the barrel

During Jones time here

We have the third worst record in NFL

We have the second lowest PPG & Pts scored in NFL

We have the third lowest Pass TDs in NFL

We have the second lowest offensive yards & passing yards in NFL

Jones has won just 22 games in 5 seasons

I constantly see people on here refer to us as being “mediocre “ or what this OP did.

The sooner we realize we arent even close to that, the closer we are to changing it

I hope the team gets their QB this year. If it were me, I would fight extremely hard to get Drake Maye. The other QBs who might be in play I am less convinced of, but if the team has a legit conviction for one of them then they have to make their move and I am fully supportive.

But when you say things like 6 solid QB prospects in this draft, 4 of which are being talked about in the top 10 --I don't agree with you that in today's game solid QBs win championships and you also have to understand that "what's being talked about" is in the media, no teams looking to draft any of the QBs are talking. Also, different teams have different evaluations on the top 6. There are strong preferences in both directions. But NYG has to draft a player based on what their board says, not what they read in the media.

It's a more pressing need than every other roster need combined. Not only are the QBs very poor but there's a completely realistic possibility, if not a likelihood, that none of these QBs are on the roster when the new league year starts next March.

Some say you can't shop hungry but that horse is out of the barn. The Giants are starving for a QB because outside of paying Jones they've ignored the position, and paying Jones has obviously been a catastrophe.

If they don't draft a QB next week I take that as a sign they are all in on Jones, and my expectations will be for a $47M season from him in 2024. When that doesn't happen I'll be hoping both Schoen and Daboll are replaced with people who know what they're doing.

In comment 16473252 Go Terps said:

Quote:

It's a more pressing need than every other roster need combined. Not only are the QBs very poor but there's a completely realistic possibility, if not a likelihood, that none of these QBs are on the roster when the new league year starts next March. Some say you can't shop hungry but that horse is out of the barn. The Giants are starving for a QB because outside of paying Jones they've ignored the position, and paying Jones has obviously been a catastrophe. If they don't draft a QB next week I take that as a sign they are all in on Jones, and my expectations will be for a $47M season from him in 2024. When that doesn't happen I'll be hoping both Schoen and Daboll are replaced with people who know what they're doing.

This.

pff 4/1/24
NEW YORK GIANTS
Team Needs: WR, TE, S

Sharp Football Analysis 4/3/24
Defensive Back
Wide Receiver
Defensive Line

Draft Analyst Consensus Says This Position Is Giants' Biggest Need - si.com 2/8/24
According to a compilation of first-round draft projections by leading draft analysts, the consensus is the receiver.

sportsnaut 2/12/24
New York Giants draft needs 2024: WR, QB, RB, CB, S, LB

how critical a need QB is. We are in a prime position to get a QB in one of the best QB crops in decades, we don’t know when we will be in this position again. Even with a decent season from Jones, the Giants were able to win 9 games, which would push us out of range for a top QB next year.

Get one now.

In comment 16473252 Go Terps said:

Quote:

It's a more pressing need than every other roster need combined. Not only are the QBs very poor but there's a completely realistic possibility, if not a likelihood, that none of these QBs are on the roster when the new league year starts next March. Some say you can't shop hungry but that horse is out of the barn. The Giants are starving for a QB because outside of paying Jones they've ignored the position, and paying Jones has obviously been a catastrophe. If they don't draft a QB next week I take that as a sign they are all in on Jones, and my expectations will be for a $47M season from him in 2024. When that doesn't happen I'll be hoping both Schoen and Daboll are replaced with people who know what they're doing.

I don't think all those advocating to "just take a quarterback next year" realize there's a very real possibility that a bad season with Jones at the helm would cause a full reset.

Lots of it.

thing I will add to my post (saying it cannot be overestimated how big a need QB is) is that every QB crop is the best QB crop since...whenever until they're not.

Forcing a QB could be worse than deliberately not picking a QB (with a premium pick).

Forcing a QB is how you wind up in QB hell and eventually you get the back of the Browns or Jets jerseys depicting QB hell.

If the GM believes the QB is their guy they should be aggressive and get the QB. But some are simply not "gettable" like Caleb Williams for example, maybe even Jayden Daniels. Settling for "next best" is not a strategy.

I also think the wrong decision though should cost the GM their job. You can't miss on the most important position on the field and expect another shot at it.

Avoid QB hell......

In comment 16473180 Sean said:

Quote:

It's a huge issue. Most of us think it's likely Schoen will cut Jones after this season. Jones will have to really play well and win to justify the cap hit he'd be getting in 2025. Lock will be a UFA in 2025. DeVito was benched for poor play and is a UDFA, I cringe when I see mocks not taking a QB. I'd lose all confidence in this regime if that were the case. Logic says they are taking a real serious look at McCarthy for that reason. Now project out the 2025 QBs, it's not promising as of today. I think if NE is at all open to trading down, Schoen will do it.

Project out the 2025 QBs if McCarthy had stayed in school.

Some scouts would currently project him as the overall #1 pick in 2025. So taking a look at what might have been that 2025 overall #1, in this year's draft, not needing to have 2024's overall #1 pick, can make a lot of sense.

Yep. Sy said that in his review.

it is:

2022 saw daniel Jones with his most wins, most "consistent" season and it accounted for 15 TD Passes in 16 games played.. 15!

It saw a team have to play mistake FREE in order to win and needed mistakes by the other team to make sure we could win. Take a look:

Wk 1- we win 21-20 (by going for 2 late in the game and with Tenn missing a GW fg attempt.

wk2- we won by 3 but won the turnover battle 2-0. We averaged 3.8 yards per play. We kicked 4 field goals.. We were at home..

wk3- we lose to Dallas who was playing Cooper Rush at QB. Jones for the third straight week doesn't 200 yards passing.

wk4- we beat Chicago in a horrible game where Jones has less than 80 yards passing but runs for 68 and 2 TD's.. If we had played any other team this week, with that kind of poor production we lose. Chicago fumbled 3 times in that game and we still only won by 8 points..

I could go on and on but you see where things are at. We won some games WITH Daniel Jones but not because of him. Last year, when things were not perfect, we lost. Games that were close, the almost wins happened with Devito and Taylor at QB, again cementing the fact that even baseline competent play at QB will get you some wins or keep you in games. That means we can accomplish that with anyone- so why are we keeping a guy who we pay to WIN games just be a guy who produces like an UDFA QB???

We need a QB to build to around. Doesn't mean he will be Mahomes etc but we can't keep rolling out the guy who just isn't it and expect that if we build everything else we will be fine.. Doesn't work that way.. The 49ers found Purdy but that was more by accident than plan- they had Jimmy G (who is better than Jones BTW) adn went after their guy in Lance. Lance didn't workout but the 49ers already had all of their other pieces that they were using with Jimmy G and when Lance failed, they put in Purdy our of necessity and it all worked..

I don't think Purdy to the Giants would have worked out..You can have that "guy" when you have all of the other pieces. You don't get that "guy" and then try to add pieces, he won't make it the point of true development. He will never be protected enough to do that.

When you are building up you need your center piece, when you are just remodeling you can have a more limited center point as all the othe3r areas over come his limitations..

We are rebuilding not remodling..

you're not going to win a Super Bowl. So since the goal every year should be to win the Super Bowl, we need a QB rather badly.

I really don't want to trade down, but if we whiff on the "big 4" QBs, or perhaps just don't like the one that falls, we need to have a serious discussion about whether or not trading down and trying to acquire a 2025 #1 is the best long term move.

If we don't get a QB this year, there needs to be a plan in place to get one in 2025 when we can get out of Jones' contract.

You can't win without smart, solid, impactful, consistent quality QB play.

Yes we don't want a QB picked just for sake of "take any guy" but the dial is done on Jones longer term. Yes - we've added Lock too as a lotto ticket for short term.

Even if its the 4th QB in the draft, if we feel a guy is smart, talented, and worth a shot to try and develop, take him.

If they leave, these two are completely replaceable and irrelevant.

Jones is the problem and the reason the need is big

In comment 16473184 UberAlias said:

Quote:

But the priority has to be getting a guy who you believe will lead you to championships. TBH, I really only see the top QBs doing that these days. That's why when we talk about QB being a need, I'm not on the same page as many. I think many here just want someone other than Jones. But to me, if the guy isn't someone who realistically doesn't project to the top 10 QBs in the league (or thereabouts), then I think we need to keep the search going. Finding a guy you can win with type isn't that difficult while we're looking.

+1

Regardless of the Brock Purdy argument - it's a cap issue.
Average QBs get $30-40 mil/year.
Purdy will get more than that on his next contract.
You need an elite guy
1- Because it's the most important position in sports
2- You have to pay elite money to keep him more than 4-5 years

It's as big of need as it gets, but merely subbing in a QB to get Jones out of there isn't good enough either.

They're there because they haven't been drafting any.

Drafting a QB "you can win a championship with" isn't a thing. How do you know before the guy has played an NFL game?

In comment 16473232 Rudy5757 said:

Quote:

There is no long term plan for the Giants because they seem to draft for immediate need, filling holes instead of getting the best player available. Basically going into the draft hungry. You can see the holes we have and the players we brought in for visits. They line up pretty closely. WR, QB, CB. The past 2 years, we can see the Giants target the guys they bring in.

It drives me fookin nuts if I allow it. They run the team like a regular fan would. See hole plug hole, continue to suck and spin wheels going nowhere.

Of course, we may not be able to get one this year and have to pick other positions instead.

They are building towards nothing. There is nothing that comes of that. It's just wasting time and counting down until March 2025 for FA and April 2025 for the draft.

As a fan, I want to feel like something is being built. To do that, you need to bring in a QB. Anything other than that is a non starter for me.

Watching Daniel Jones hand it off to Devin Singletary and checking down is a waste of time and an insult to fans.

In comment 16473345 Go Terps said:

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They're there because they haven't been drafting any. Drafting a QB "you can win a championship with" isn't a thing. How do you know before the guy has played an NFL game?

Got to be able to scout and judge pedigree. This has become a lost art in the modern NFL. Tenures are too short for coaches and front offices, too much trying to win now with bad rosters, etc.

in the first round. Plenty of the 6 QBs who end up likely getting picked in the first round this year will be JAGs or worse, but that is not what teams are aiming for. If they think a guy's ceiling is "Can win 10 games with a really good team around him" he is going to be picked in later rounds.

We all have no idea how the Giants have these guys rated, but we will know next week if they draft a guy in the first that they see him as a guy who can win superbowls for them. If they take a flyer on a guy in round 3, they probably see him as a guy to compete to start down the road while they keep searching for their long term answer.

What I do not expect to happen is the Giants take a guy in the first because he will likely be a better option than Daniel Jones. You pick based on the player, not the guy he is replacing.

QB is a need that has to be filled. Stop thinking about it as Jones is a guy who needs to be upgraded.

The New York Giants need for a QB is among the biggest needs any team has in the NFL. It's a monster need. And the fans know it. The team knows it. The league knows it. The Giants have not been serious about doing whatever it takes to upgrade the position in many years, and consequently we have been playing with backup-level QB play since 2017-ish.

Daboll squeezes some wins out of the group and they go 7-10. They pick 12. And we'll hear the same crap about no QB being worth it. Go watch Schoen then spending $50M on Dak out of desperation.

As Terps says, they'll only be hungrier next year.

In comment 16473179 crooza172 said:

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We have been living in QB hell for a decade (includes Eli's down years). It is time for some hope!!!!!!!!

I agree huge need, but still you don't force it if it's not there (especially at 6). This team is void so much talent almost everywhere except the DL. On offense, the weapons are bottom-tier. Compared to Dallas/Philly its a joke.
Slayton is our WR1 right now and Singletary is not scaring anyone with our OL. We are in serious need of fire-power and top-end talent on offense. No QB will succeed with those weapons. On D, we need depth at DT, another good/solid corner, and probably a starting safety.

We need to continually build this team almost everywhere including QB. I think if your not getting your QB at 6, then you have RD2'2024 through next draft to land your guy without question (although not sure they have that leash pending on how this year goes). I'd rather have a roster in place that can support the growth of a young QB. I don't see it yet.

The "need" is more about having the opportunity to draft an incredibly talented guy, who is a better prospect than Jones.

Do they absolutely "need" to just draft any QB? No. They should take best player available and not overdraft.

But a few of these QBs should be special. And they'll do what they can to get one.

I just want to see him get a shot early in the season, but that isn’t likely to happen if Jones is ready to start the season.

In comment 16473174 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

realizes QB is a huge need, whether because you think Jones is ineffective, or simply because of his injuries.

+1